Screenshot Insanity

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Showed a number of screenshots from the many folks attacking us at this point in time and went through them, mainly focusing upon the sad reality of bias, prejudice, and simply bigotry in the "Christian" community. A rather full refutation of the scandalous charges of certain internet apologists and in particular Brannon Howse.

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Well, you ready for this, folks? I'm not sure I am. I tell you, those memes of the triple
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Star Trek facepalm and all that kind of stuff have been popping into my mind over the past week or so.
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And ever since Brandon House started his—you see, if I call it jihad,
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I'll get it from one side. If I say crusade, I'll get it from the other side. It doesn't matter.
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People will criticize whether I wear my glasses or not wear my glasses, the color of my shirt. I mean, it's just that level of stuff out there right now.
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It really, really is. Just the fact that I have something in my eye right now will be interpreted by somebody as something. Plank in the eye, you know, it's just unbelievable, the insanity.
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So what I've got here is I've got some screenshots, and we're just going to sort of let the screenshots run stuff.
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And I've got a couple of clips I want to play. Why bother with this? Well, there is, unfortunately, in the midst of all this insanity—and some of it is just stultifyingly shocking—there is, unfortunately, clear documentation of the fact that there is a broad spectrum of American evangelicalism primarily.
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And again, it demonstrates the term evangelical. What in the world does it mean? That is shockingly willing to believe almost anything.
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There's no serious thought involved. There's no—I would call it the mind of Christ.
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The mind of Christ is a mind focused upon truthfulness. Truth is something that is consistent.
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Christians should not be gullible people. Let me give an example. I've used this example a number of times recently when talking about the manuscript history of the
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New Testament. I point out that the New Testament book that we have the fewest manuscripts of is—do you know?
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The fewest. No. No. What book of the New Testament do we have the fewest manuscripts of?
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I've mentioned this before. And of course, you may have been very busy with your technical duties at the time.
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Oh, just getting old? Not like that's happening to me. You're already closer to 60 to 50.
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My next birthday puts me closer to 60 than to 50, so I keep reminding people that when
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I pass them on hills on my bike. Do you know I'm a grandpa heart patient? Yeah, I keep riding there, buddy.
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I've given you plenty of time by filling there. It's the book of Revelation. Book of Revelation. Now, why would the book of Revelation have the fewest manuscripts?
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Because the book of Revelation struggled for inclusion in the canon. And I point out that it's a good thing.
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It's a good thing that the book of Revelation struggled for inclusion in the canon. Why? Because it demonstrates that the early church was not like Brandon House.
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The early church was discerning. The early church was not into conspiracy theories.
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The early church wasn't sitting around going, wow, I really like these, you know, 10 -headed monsters and stuff like that.
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Let's have some more like this. Instead, there was a, so are we sure that this was
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John? And we're sure that there was the apostolic connection? And there was quite simply a real struggle for the book of Revelation to be accepted eventually by the entirety of the church as scripture.
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So that's a good thing. There was discernment going on. Discernment requires rational thought.
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It requires careful thinking. And when we look at the hymnology of the early church in the
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Carmen Christi in Philippians 2, 5 -11, deep theology, not the surface level
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Sunday school stuff we have in so many churches today, there was a serious, honest approach to thought and truth and the proclamation of the gospel.
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Unfortunately, there's a broad spectrum of people in evangelicalism today that just simply isn't the case.
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That just simply isn't the case. And as a result, they'll believe almost anything. The number of comments, and I haven't kept all of them,
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I've just kept a couple of them, but I'll show you a few of them, of where people who clearly have never read a single word
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I've ever written, they've never listened to a single debate, they've never listened to hundreds of sermons, sermon series on Hebrews or the law of God or debates on homosexuality, doesn't matter as long as Brannan House or one of his surrogates or somebody else says that I'm a compromised person, then
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I'm just the worst thing that's ever come down the pike. One thing I've learned is that Christians are willing to shoot their own instantaneously if they think that it fits into their prejudices, and there are a lot of prejudices, a lot of prejudices amongst the
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Christian people, a lot of them. And so what I've done is I've just selected a part of my screen here.
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This isn't going to look real good, and we're not going to spend a whole lot of time on it. I'm going to play a few clips, and we're going to run through these things.
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But I've just put these screenshots up. I even bought a screenshot program too. It's really nice.
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It really works well. It makes it faster than doing it the old -fashioned way on Mac, which still works.
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But anyway, let's start off with the first one we've got here, and it is from Brannan House.
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This is from two days ago, the 10th. For many,
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Calvinism trumps truth. Calvinists can spew air and get no pushback from Calvinists because the offender promotes
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Calvinism. Notice how many Calvinist pastors, Calvinists pastors and authors say nothing about air of Moeller, Chan, Moore, White, Platt, Keller, et cetera, all
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Calvinists. There are moderate Muslims, but not a moderate Islam. Yasir Qadhi is not a moderate
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Muslim. New details on him report next week is sort of disconnected, but it's all the same thing. How did
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Calvinism get involved in this? I mean, someone else we're going to look at is going to say that I'm down on Osama Dakdak because he's not a
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Calvinist. I don't know what he is. It's irrelevant. Oh my goodness. I mean, the
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Calvinist derangement syndrome automatically pops in. And now, look,
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I'm honored. Thank you, Moeller and Platt, and hey, thank you very much.
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I appreciate being associated with men of God. Thank you. Thank you very much.
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Appreciate that. I don't even know what these alleged errors are. But what does
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Calvinism have to do with this? I don't know. A Calvinist derangement syndrome is part of this.
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And here's the next one. Just real quickly, if you haven't seen it yet, I put a video up yesterday.
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I think it was yesterday. Sometimes when people are trying to attack you and they just don't have much to go on, they'll very early on hand you a smoking gun with which they've shot themselves in the foot.
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And this is Brandon House's Facebook page where he posted the beheaded
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James White. Do you see that I'm beheaded there?
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Thank you very much. Brandon House didn't do that. Rich did. I think there's something to that.
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After all these years, he's just... You don't know why he's doing that.
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It just happens to cut my head, right? Yeah.
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Anyway, if you go full screen, am I just full screen beheaded? Because I can't read that.
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So you might as well make it go full screen and maybe it will work better. I don't know.
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Let me... Nope. I just checked the region that it's sending you and it's sending you the whole thing.
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So anyway... No. Nope. That's not what it's sending you. You got messed up over there, brother.
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So anyway, this is the video that he posted of a 36 second clip. And all
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I had to do was go online, get the actual video, play what came before, the very next sentence afterwards.
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And to any rational, honest person, to any rational, honest person, the reality of the deception of Brand House was clear.
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But he says, well, I showed to my experts, they say it doesn't change anything. There's no reasoning with folks like this.
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I mean, you put it out there, leave it, leave it be. And if a person can't see it, you just go.
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But notice this, James White says ISIS is not Islam as a whole. And that's obvious.
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If you think ISIS is Islam as a whole, you ain't looking around very much. And Brand House doesn't know anything about Islam.
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That's what's funny about this. He's absolutely clueless about Islam, has no earthly idea what he's talking about.
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So he doesn't realize that the vast majority of people killed by ISIS are, oh, what group is it again?
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Oh, oh, oh, Muslims. Yeah. Well, why would they kill Muslims if the whole of Islam is
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ISIS? Huh? That's so weird. Anyway, then he says,
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James doesn't understand either Islam or ISIS. Sounds like Barack Hussein Obama to me.
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I'm sorry. It's just the level of absurdity. But it's there.
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It's there. OK, then now this one, OK, I'm going to change region and I'm going to have to raise it up just a little bit there.
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This one is from a guy named Justin Pierce. I think it was posted yesterday.
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And Justin Pierce is a contributor to Pulpit and Pen.
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And this is some longer one, longer stuff that I'll go through here. He says,
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I've listened to both of the links. There is a third. I know Pastor Usama personally. We actually had an exposing
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Islam conference with him several years ago. And wow, he knows his stuff because he lived it and was force fed it.
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I've talked to James White about him to see if he was legit. I don't understand the sentence.
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The way I see it, James cannot stand Usama because he's not a Calvinist reform guy or one of the untouchables.
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So one of the first things I did is I go, I have no idea who Justin Pierce is.
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Never heard of him. So when did we have this conversation? When did you talk to me about Usama Dakdar?
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So I put that out there and a little bit later, an answer comes back through other people. I called you and talked in the phone seven years ago.
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Now it's possible. It's possible.
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It's also possible that the enterprise beamed that guy out of his, what was that, an
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F -104 in that one episode and did the whole time thing, the slingshot thing.
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And that's possible too. You don't know. I mean, I think it's more likely the enterprise did its thing personally.
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But you see, the reason is there's this guy in the other room and it's really hard to get past him to talk to me.
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So unless you were a bud that had my phone number, I don't think you got through to me.
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Maybe you think you talked to me because you talked to him. All right. Don't know. Don't know.
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But the idea, again, about whether Usama is a Calvinist or not is utterly irrelevant completely and totally.
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So, yeah, Jason online says, I can't remember who
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I talked to last week. Having the same problem as us, huh? Okay. Anyway, I asked him if Usama ever has spoken publicly about anything except exposing and explaining the danger of Islam, which he hasn't.
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Asked who? I asked him if Usama ever has spoken publicly about anything except exposing and explaining the dangers of Islam, which he hasn't.
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What? I don't even, I can't even follow half this. It's irrational. I told
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Dr. White that he needed to listen to Pastor Usama and learn the truth about Islam and that he simply wasn't interested and just blew him off.
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He won't even debate him about Islam. I mean, Dr. White will debate Muslims all over the world and call anyone who says ISIS is
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Islam is a liar. Context was, context was, or maybe you wrote this before I provided the context or you didn't bother to go look at it.
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Context was the two different extremes and those saying that ISIS is all of Islam and the people on the other side that's saying it has nothing to do with it.
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Anyone repeating that is lying. L -Y -I -N -G. Those are the facts. I've provided the facts.
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Deal with it. Deal with it. If you can't, if you can't listen to what somebody says and deal with it in an honest fashion, then you have all the freedom in the world to do what you do.
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Just don't call yourself a Christian. Just call yourself an internet whatever, but don't call yourself a
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Christian. Yet he won't debate Pastor Usama Dakdak and prove where he is wrong.
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Come on. Seriously, prove it or apologize. There needs to be a debate on this with these two men like today.
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Like today. See, here's the difference, Justin. When we do debates, we actually do serious debates, debates that are supposed to have long -term effect.
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And so I have pointed out a number of times, give me a meaningful, representative thesis, and the next time
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I would have an opportunity for any type of debate would probably be March of next year because I am literally,
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I will literally earn, not platinum, not platinum pro, but what's the top one?
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Executive platinum on American Airlines this year because I am teaching in Europe.
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I'm preaching in the Castle Church in Wittenberg in September. I'm teaching in Dallas. I'm teaching in Johannesburg.
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I'm teaching in Durban. I am teaching all over the place.
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I am going to be gone. I'm going to be out of sight of the United States one out of every six days this year.
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And so with already my commitment to G3 in January of next year, you're talking
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February, March at the earliest. And I'm right now, we've got to limit my external travel next year extremely.
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So, but give me something worthwhile because so far all I have are lies about what
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I've said. None of you people will even represent me even semi -accurately. What is it you want to debate about?
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What is it these people want to debate about? Give me, someone said, well, here's what
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Keith Thompson says and then links to a private page. So I couldn't even read what he said. If he wants the world to know about it, put it on a page where someone could actually read it.
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I would love to have seen what he thinks the issue is. What is the issue here?
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Where have I gone off the reservation? Because all
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I'm hearing are lies. Sam Shamoon lying about me. The man has lost his ever -loving mind.
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Go to his Facebook page. It's incredible. I don't think he slept. He's just sitting there at the keyboard.
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James White is evil. And just typing away and coming up with everything. The next thing he's going to be doing is posting
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Gail Ripplinger stuff. I mean, it's coming. It really is coming. Hey, if you can do Steven Anderson, you can do
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Gail Ripplinger. They're pretty much in the same realm. And people say, you need to debate
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Sam Shamoon. Sam Shamoon has become the Nader Ahmed of Christian apologists.
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The Nader Ahmed of Christian apologists. He has disqualified himself. And I don't want to have to post what
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I have of Sam Shamoon's words. Because they're vile. They're profane.
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They are repulsive. But if people keep hammering me on it and saying, you need to do this, you need to do this.
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I'm simply going to tell you right now. And you could find it if you wanted to dig far enough.
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Unless he's deleted it. If he's smart, he will delete it. But just fine. Just search for stuff by Robert Mori.
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And search for comments. And you'll discover. There are people who have entire files.
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Some of the stuff I knew about even before Sam went off the rails. And I called him on it.
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And I told him, you communicate in a way that no Christian should ever communicate. This is wrong. It's completely in error.
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Now he's doing it to me. And we have standards. And there is absolutely no logical or rational basis for believing that this man would be able to control himself in a debate.
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Given how he behaves. And given the documentation that we possess of the language.
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The vile communication that comes from his fingers. I mean, is there really a difference between a keyboard and the mouth?
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It almost seems like we exercise more control over what we say than what we type. Sadly. I think that's due to the internet.
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So not even a possibility. Not even a possibility. Just simply on a behavioral level.
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But these other individuals. I'll debate Osama. Give me something to debate.
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What are we going to debate? Let me give you an example. Let me give an example. Let's see. Because again,
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I don't get any evidence that Osama... Osama Dokdok likened me, remember?
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To Jimmy Swagger. To Jimmy Swagger. So no rational person does that.
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So I'm a little concerned right off the bat. But let's...
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Let me see here. Let me switch over to this.
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And let me play a little something for you. I have been told that I have changed.
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That somehow I, you know, have become soft on Islam and all the rest of that stuff.
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I have two clips I want to play for you. And the first comes... Both of these.
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Both of these come from debates done with Muslims since the
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Khadi encounter. Afterwards. Afterwards. So here
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I am, this useful idiot, this dupe. I'm engaged in Chrislam, all the rest of that kind of stuff.
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Let's see what these folks want to... These folks want this stopped. Justin Pierce, Brandon House, all these people, they don't want this to happen anymore.
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This needs to stop. And they're calling you to help stop it. What? All right, you ready?
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Here we go. Last five minutes, I want to close with this. Bashir said, in response to one of the questions, the crucifixion was a great injustice.
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By the way, this is at a mosque, my friends. This is at a mosque.
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I want everyone to understand, the crucifixion of Jesus Christ was not a great injustice.
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But neither was it solely an act of justice.
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Let me explain that. You see, I understand we have different understandings of the law of God and the punishment of sin.
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But what you need to understand is that on the cross, Jesus gave himself voluntarily out of his love, mercy, and grace.
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He said, no one takes my life from me. I give it of my own accord. It was not taken from him. He laid it down for his people out of his great love for his people.
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The reason the death was necessary was we don't believe God can simply allow his law to be broken.
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It is reflective of his very nature. And so there had to be a means by which that law could be fulfilled and propitiated.
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And so father, son, and spirit together in eternity past choose this method whereby
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God will be able to justly save his people. It requires punishment of sin.
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My friends, a person will either get justice or a person will get mercy and grace.
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No one will get injustice. No one will get injustice. If someone experiences
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God's wrath, that is simply God's justice against their well -deserved sin.
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If anyone experiences God's mercy and grace in eternal life in his presence, it is solely of his grace, his mercy, and his love.
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It is never because any of us are any better than anyone else. And no one will ever receive injustice.
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Never. So the crucifixion was not injustice. Crucifixion was the ultimate fulfillment of God's justice.
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The demonstration that he is a holy God. The demonstration he cannot simply wink at sin.
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You all remember the Hadith of the man that killed 99 people? And then he killed the priest when he asked if his repentance would be accepted.
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So he killed 100 people. Remember what that Hadith says? That Allah even made the earth to shrink between the man the city was going to so that that man could go to paradise.
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Now as a Christian as I hear that, I hear Muslims talking about God's mercy and his grace.
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But what about God's law? What about that law that represents his very holy nature? Is that just simply laid aside?
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Is that simply made nothing? You see, we are not saying God can do that. We are saying that God's law is real.
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That there is a need for atonement. There was a need for propitiation. And that Jesus gave himself voluntarily so as to provide that perfect propitiation.
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And my greatest desire for every Muslim in this audience and for every person that calls himself a Christian who may not know these things.
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We're gonna leave this place in just a few minutes. I've got a long way to go back. I've gotta get up early in the morning. Rudolph's gotta get up earlier than me.
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I'm heading to Heathrow in London tomorrow and things like that. So I've gotta move pretty quickly. It's a dangerous world out there.
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I have absolutely no guarantee that I'm gonna get back to Randberg this evening. I hope I do. But if I don't, if something happens and I stand before God this evening, how will
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I stand before him? Will I stand before him clothed in the good works
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I claim for myself? Will I say, I really love the Muslim people and I prayed for them. Is that good enough in front of a holy
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God? Because I don't pray as often as I should. What's the only basis that any one of us can stand before the thrice holy
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God? The God who is surrounded by the angels that say, kadosh, kadosh, kadosh.
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Holy, holy, holy is the Lord of hosts. When you stand before him, you know your own heart and I know mine and I know
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I need something other than any good work that I have. And the only reason
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I can have peace with God and stand before him this evening is because on that cross 2 ,000 years ago, the sinless son of God gave himself in my place.
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His righteousness has been given to me. My sins he bore upon that tree.
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And so it's not a mixed righteousness of my good works together with his. It's all of him and none of me.
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And that is why I have peace with God this evening. And please, my Muslim friends, I pray that you will hear.
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And in that time, when you consider your own heart, think about what Jesus Christ did.
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I present him to you, the Lamb of God slain for the sins of the world.
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Thank you for being here this evening. God bless. So there you go. That's what these folks want to end because I'm a compromiser.
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I'm a useful idiot. I don't understand Islam. Not one of the people who have criticized me have ever stood in that situation and they never will because they will not show integrity, honesty in representing the other side.
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That's a problem. Oh, well, that was just one. That's just one thing, right?
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Well, let's take a look at this one real quick. I have to keep playing with these things here.
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Let's see if that does it. There we go. This likewise took place since the
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Aserkadi encounter. You tell me. Let's see.
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Yeah, here we go. You ready? I do want to suggest this. Fundamentally, peace is something that exists between the creator and his creation.
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Peace is something that we experience individually between ourselves and God. When I'm at peace with God, I have a foundation for being at peace with those around me.
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When I am fundamentally at war with my God, then I cannot have a foundation to be at peace with those around me.
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We all know that how this works within our own personal lives. Within marriage. When I am in rebellion, when
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I'm not doing what is right before God, my relationship with my wife, my children suffers.
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When I'm not right with God, my relationship with those around me suffers. And so for me, we can talk about the big picture.
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But I'm a grandfather now. I just saw a picture of my darling little four -year -old granddaughter
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Clementine. And I think she lives in princess dresses, personally. Which is beautiful.
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And when I think about the future, I now think about her. And I want peace in this world.
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I want her to be able to grow up and be the mommy she wants to be. And to have her children. And to have a loving husband.
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And have a stable home. And to have those types of opportunities. I want to see peace. And so it has become much more important to me to be able to emphasize, to have to emphasize, that from the
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Christian perspective, fundamentally, God has provided for peace with himself.
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And he's done so in amazing fashion, in an amazing way. When we talk about our texts of war and peace, it comes back for me to how
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I have peace with God. When I wake up in the morning, knowing my own heart, knowing all the duties that I left undone the day before, knowing the sins that I committed the day before of thought and deed, how can
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I claim to have peace with God? What kind of arrogance is it for me to think that I have peace with a thrice holy
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God? The God who is surrounded by angels who say, holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty.
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Knowing how unclean I am, how can I say I have peace? Well, that's a terrible problem.
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But God has provided an amazing solution. I believe that what the world needs to hear is that we can have peace with him because he has taken the initiative.
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Father, Son, and Holy Spirit together have chosen to bring about this thing called the gospel.
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My Lord and Savior gave himself voluntarily. His life was not taken from him.
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He laid it down of his own accord. He voluntarily laid his life down so that my sins can be imputed to him, his righteousness imputed to me.
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So when I stand before a holy God, I do not stand in the good works that I have done because I know that even the good works
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I have done are stained with selfishness, ignorance, self -conceit. Instead, I stand robed in the righteousness of another, a perfect righteousness that avails before that thrice holy
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God. And that is the only reason I have peace with God. The only reason
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I can stand in his presence. This evening, I mentioned at the beginning that Abdullah and I are not trying to hide our differences.
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And our fundamental differences have to do with who God is and how we are to have a right relationship with him.
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It is my deepest desire that every person on this planet, including every
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Muslim, know the peace that I know because of my relationship with Jesus Christ.
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So there you go, folks. This has to stop.
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This just has to stop because it's just terrible what I'm doing. I'm just misleading people because I'm so duped and I don't know anything about Islam at all.
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There you go. I would invite Brandon House and his compatriots to provide similar situations where they're doing these types of things.
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Because like they keep saying, I'm the one who doesn't know anything about Islam. There you go.
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So back to, I'm sorry, boom and boom.
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Oh, good. The region didn't change anyways. That's good. We all know that what these guys are saying is accurate.
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And Dr. James White, having this guy teach him is exactly the same as if we had Satan sit down and teach us about the doctrine of salvation, both are going to lie to you.
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Now, once again, one of the things that I've found to be extremely disgusting and repulsive about the attitude of many people who call themselves
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Christians is their unwillingness to learn from others. There is an arrogance amongst these people that is astounding.
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It's astounding. And see, again, I didn't know how far out of the mainstream
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I was because when I started studying Mormonism, barely out of my teen years,
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I immediately recognized if I'm going to accurately represent the
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Mormons, guess what I've got to do? I've got to learn from Mormons. And so I started reading their books and I learned from my dialogues with Mormons and I did original study in their sources.
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And I discovered, you know what? I need to understand how Mormons think. I need to listen to them.
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I can't tell them what to think. It's arrogant for me to tell somebody else you need to understand
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Mormonism in the way that I think you should understand Mormonism. That's arrogance. It's condescending arrogance.
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And yet I cannot tell you how many of these people. I learned a great deal from Yasir Qadhi, but not just from Yasir Qadhi.
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I recognize Yasir Qadhi represents... I recognize and Yasir Qadhi recognizes he has changed in his perspectives over the years.
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I've mentioned this. I've talked about it, but no one seems to care about what I actually said. It's just, you know, whatever fits into your paradigm,
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I guess. I will not apologize to Justin Pierce for having taken the time to try to accurately understand the other side.
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That's how I honor the gospel. And I would suggest to you, if you don't understand that, don't, don't go out there and offend these people in the name of Jesus through your abject ignorance.
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Please, go talk to your elders. Get some meaningful counsel as to what
36:34
Christian character involves, which involves honesty and integrity in research and representation of others.
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The truth as we heard is that James White does not understand the nature and evil intention of Islam. And he actually said, ISIS is not
36:50
Islam. If you listen to Link, you heard him say that. What you heard me say was ISIS is not, is not all of Islam.
36:58
And that is a fact. And if you don't understand that, then you do not understand ISIS, Al Qaeda, Boko Haram.
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You don't understand any of these. How many books have you read on these groups? Probably not a single one, huh?
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Not a single one. Yeah, well, anyway. Why do you think he has never talked about the
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Quran's doctrines of death to all Christians and moderates? He has never had a debate where exposing Islam's true agenda and beliefs was the topic.
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Really? If he tried, those moderates would kill him immediately, and he knows it.
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Wow. Pastor Usama translated the Quran and shows where it actually teaches the perfect, the prefect scheme of Islam.
37:38
Why it is called the religion of peace. Islam demands everyone submits worldwide and everything pushes to that end.
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But after they are in complete power in a nation, they begin to enforce all the laws and everyone must become more Muslim. Okay, I'm a more
37:52
Muslim. They're commanded to watch their neighbors and look for any sign of failure in their obedience to Islam. Anyone who is less of a Muslim in practice of faith is to be punished, tortured and purified before Allah.
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Beheaded with a broad sword quickly so that they may be presented as a worthy Muslim. It's an interesting perspective.
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Not sure how it fits into all of Islamic history, but I don't think Justin's ever read any of Islamic history.
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Anyone seen as apostate is purified slowly under the wrath of Allah with a full knife to make the pain and torture take as long as possible.
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They will not enter paradise because they are not allowed to repent and cannot be grand salvation in Islam. Do you know what the
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Sirat is, Justin? Without Googling it. Do you know what that is? How many of the
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Hadith have you read about how much Iman it takes to enter into?
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Who are the people of fire? Ever read all of Sahih al -Bukhari, Justin?
38:49
After Islam has conquered the world, they then turn towards their own and start exterminating those Muslims who are lesser obedient followers of Islam.
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Sounds like the Borg or something. Well, sort of the opposite. The most faithful Muslim is the last Muslim left alive.
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I don't know. Don't look. I don't look at me. I've never heard.
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Yeah, I know. James White has never spoken once about any of this. Yeah, there's a reason for that.
39:15
But a Salma has been the premier leader at the front of the Christian defense discernment field in this area. And yet again, we have seen this as of times when
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James White speaks, no one is allowed to question him. You're plenty allowed to question me. Just don't lie about me all the time.
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That's the tough part. That's, you know. When he says someone is solid, even saying that his still current
39:34
Muslim scholar teacher is a great example of a moderate, normal, good Muslim. By the way, can I just point something out that I've been waiting to say for a while?
39:43
I actually had somebody go through. If you, and again, most of these people have not even listened to the dialogues.
39:52
They haven't even listened to the dialogues. I start off saying Yasir Qadhi is a conservative, believing
39:59
Muslim. He identified as Salafi until only a few years ago.
40:07
Not once in that dialogue that I call him a moderate. Because I don't think the term moderate radical is even meaningful.
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So why would I use it? Not once. And yet over and over and over and over and over and over and over again, like a drumbeat, these people, one person lies, the other person quotes his lie, the other person quotes his lie until it takes on a life of its own.
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That's what lying does. That's what happens when you don't do your homework. Yasir Qadhi is a conservative.
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He believes what he believes. He actually believes these things. He's not, he's not.
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That's what I enjoyed about listening to his material on Shirk. Is he wasn't, he wasn't dodging anything.
40:56
These guys are right. We all know James White spits venom at anyone who is a Christian, gets in his way and blah, blah, blah, blah.
41:02
There's one of the contributors to Pulpit and Pen. Good, good stuff. Okay. Oh, I needed to get to this and I'm now rushing a little bit more because we've taken more time.
41:16
Here is Brand House just found flyer from Yasir Qadhi and James White interfaith dialogue.
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What a clear violation of 2 Corinthians 6 .14 and 2 John 2 .9 -11. It's the Facebook thing, announcement for our get together.
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Now, I already commented elsewhere, but let me, let me go through it again. I have to go a little bit quicker than I want to.
41:39
Finally, someone brings up something we can really dig into here and that is biblical quotations.
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Let's find out. Why is everything go black there? Okay. Let's find out.
41:54
Are the biblical quotations even relevant to what Yasir Qadhi and I did?
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We got together. We openly acknowledged our utter differences with one another.
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We did not sweep any of it under the rug. And we discussed what we believe and opened doors of discussion amongst our people as a result.
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So where is the Bible condemned that? Well, evidently condemns it in, excuse me, 2 John chapter 9.
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And here we have anyone who goes beyond, goes out.
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It's pro agon, everyone going too far, not staying within limits and not remaining in or abiding in the doctrine of Christ does not have
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God. The one abiding in the doctrine, this one has the father and has the son.
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If anyone comes to you and is not bearing Pharaoh, so that it's, it's their teaching is not bearing this doctrine, this teaching, this didache.
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Do not receive him into your house and do not greet, do neither announce to him greetings.
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For the one who announces to him greetings, koinonai, koinonia fellowship participates in his evil deeds.
43:28
So I definitely greeted Yasir Qadhi. I said, hello. I shook his hand.
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So evidently you're not supposed to say hello to Muslims, right? You don't need to have that up right now.
43:41
We're looking at, I'm not, I'm not feeding it to you. So we're not to, we're not to greet
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Muslims. Is that what this is talking about? Of course not. Again, in context, in context, you read 2
43:58
John in light of 1 John's continuation thereof. The people who are going too far not abiding the teaching of Christ, the teaching of Christ as defined in the preceding epistle regarding Jesus Christ being the one coming in the flesh.
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So he's talking about the false teachers, the docetics, the proto -gnostics that have gone out from the church. And when he says that they, if they do not abide in the doctrine, then they do not have the father, the son.
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The one who abides the doctrine has the father and son. Direct restatement of what is found in 1
44:31
John in regards to the doctrine and teaching. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, is this a person claiming to be a
44:38
Christian? This is a person claiming to be a Christian. Do not receive him into your house.
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They didn't have church buildings. These are the traveling teachers of the early church. And what
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John is saying is, do not give a base of operation in your community to the false teachers who claim to be
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Christians, but deny the central doctrines of Christ. That's what he's saying.
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Getting together with a Muslim, not under, not in any sense denying the differences, discussing what the differences are, is not giving them a place of ministry as in the early church.
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We didn't have them over to, you know, how about, how about preaching some services in the church or something along those lines?
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No. That's not what we did. There was, there is no confusion. Nobody in that building.
45:40
Now there are people confused now because of all the lies. And I still can't understand the lies in light of the fact that videos exist, except for the fact that there are people willing to comment about this without taking the time to watch the videos.
45:51
It's amazing to me. I can't understand the lack of integrity on the part of people.
45:57
I just, don't talk about stuff you don't, you haven't even taken the time to watch it.
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It's just amazing. Anyway, we laid it out from the beginning.
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Exactly what he believes. He never claims to be a Christian. He doesn't say, well, this is a variant
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Christian teaching. No. No. Sorry. Second John doesn't apply.
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It's not what it's talking about. Okay. Well, there's another one. Second Corinthians 6 .14.
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Second Corinthians 6 .14. Do not be bound together with unbelievers for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness.
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So, I don't think I was proposing marriage. What are you talking about?
46:54
Well, I guess being bound together, bound together? That's what the
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Greek term that is used here is heterozoguntes.
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The zogeo root there, binding together like two people being bound together, two oxen being bound together at the plow.
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So, it's talking about cooperating with someone in trying to reach a particular goal. And so, it would apply to marriage.
47:27
Some people have applied this to business. I'm not sure that I'd go necessarily that far.
47:35
But, sitting down and discussing the differences we have in a respectful way with the
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Muslims, or with Mormons as I've done that with them as well, has nothing to do with this.
47:48
We're not trying to accomplish the same goal. We are admitting that we have completely opposite goals.
47:55
And we're explaining why. So, why twist the scriptures, Mr. House?
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That's scripture twisting. Oh, and then you're using that as an accusation against an elder in the church.
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Or as I was told, pretended elder. Someone just quoted to me from somebody. Speaking of somebody, here's the next one.
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Someone named Ida Kogodo commented, how do you define a traitor?
48:28
And Sam Shamoon's response was James White. Do we not have this? Just throw them up there.
48:34
Don't worry about trying to zoom in on them and stuff like that. Just throw the region up. You're not gonna have time to keep up with them. So, just throw it up there.
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How do you define a traitor? James White. Thankfully, John Roberts down below says, hello, what?
48:48
But anyway, thank you very much for that. Louise Bannister.
48:55
Of course you're right. What is the matter with James White? Deaf and blind. They think you can joke, dine, and love them.
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They lie. They say what makes you feel good. Then poof. What? Poof.
49:09
Yeah, well, you can't see it right there. It says, yeah, poof right there. I don't know. I guess so.
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Then Ken Lightsey says, we are to have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
49:20
No such thing as a moderate Muslim. They're all there. Misspelled. All wicked.
49:26
And then Denise Grimes chimes in. This is sort of a picture of the mindset. These are not the folks that are going to be reaching out to the
49:33
Muslims, okay? These are not the folks that are praying, Lord, give me an opportunity to be a witness of the gospel of Jesus Christ to the
49:40
Muslim people. No, these are not those folks. Denise Grimes, exactly. A Muslim is a
49:46
Muslim. At the end of the day, all Muslims are loyal to Allah and Muhammad. And just where are the moderate countries?
49:53
This is the mindset of these folks. And then here again is the 2
50:01
Corinthians 6 .14, 2 John 2. We just addressed that one. Then we had this one that everybody was having fun with this one.
50:10
Did I cut off the region? No, it's there. Nathaniel Cassano posted this one, and a lot of folks had fun with this one.
50:20
James White is technically also an imam as a well, as a pastor,
50:27
Chrislam. You had a caller that said
50:32
I was engaging in Chrislam, right? Yeah, I know, it was a woman, yeah.
50:38
But obviously influenced by House. Chrislam, me,
50:45
I know. Look, guys, I've learned you give to someone's criticism the weight that their life accomplishments and accuracy of representation and research demands it be given, which means
51:04
I ain't given no weight to any of this because these people don't know what they're talking about.
51:11
So that's not why I'm doing this. What I'm warning about is this incredible attitude amongst people who call themselves
51:17
Christians that shows not the slightest interest in being truthful. And the internet breeds this stuff.
51:26
It breeds it. You, you, you, you conservatives that talk about the liberal echo chambers, you've got your own too.
51:39
You've got your own echo chambers. You've got your own. This is because the doctrine of absolute divine simplicity in Trinitarian theology that results in a monad of the
51:50
Godhead. This is why you can call Yasser Qadhi a good friend. Also, they are both very pro -Palestine.
52:03
I don't even know what to say. What, what have I ever said? That even, what? If you want to refute him, you would need to adopt the
52:14
Eastern Orthodox position that the spirit precedes the father alone and discard the filioque clause.
52:23
That's, there you go. Okay, then
52:30
Len Pettis, Len Pettis posted this.
52:36
Uh, I listened to every episode. They never called James apostate that I heard. They did say he is disqualified to teach on Islam.
52:44
They didn't log any insults either. Now, Jeremy Springer responds. Yes, they did.
52:50
I really don't want to go back and listen, but I will. Listen to Divine Life on Thursday. He plays a clip where they call him apostate. Useful idiot apostate and embarrassment to Christianity all seem like insults to me.
52:59
Thank you, Jeremy. Obviously in the world you and I live in, the sky is blue. Um, and then he says, did you listen to DL from Thursday?
53:08
All three of those terms were used to describe White. If those aren't insults to a Christian, I'm not sure what is. That's the common sense part speaking.
53:17
And Len responds. James White whines that he's taken out of context, yet you're ignoring the context of Brannon House.
53:23
Specifically said that James is not an idiot and qualified the etymology of the term useful idiot.
53:30
They also used the other two terms specific to his debility and qualification. Teach on the topic of Islam.
53:35
Have you studied the background of the man White calls his mentor? And if so, does it trouble you? If not, why not?
53:42
So I put this up, what, sometime this morning or sometime today. So I'm sitting in here working on another project that I still haven't gotten done.
53:54
And now I'm barely going to, I'm having to rush through and it's far more important than any of this silliness anyways. But, and I, I hear a conversation down the hall and I can tell that, that Rich's voice is...
54:08
So I wandered down there and lo and behold, who's on the phone but Len Pettis. And so I go, put on speaker.
54:18
So we start talking. So useful idiot isn't an insult. No, I think you've just totally misunderstood their attitude.
54:25
They, they, they, no, I didn't say that. And then I asked, then I asked the key question. I asked the key question.
54:30
I said, so Len, have you listened to my response to the first hour they posted?
54:37
Uh, no. No, Dr. Watt, I haven't. So Len, have you ever watched the dialogues
54:45
I did with Yasir Qadhi? Uh, nope. To which
54:52
I said, Len, you're speaking out of pure ignorance. And he was, and eventually
54:59
I said, look, if you can't figure that out, if you can't see how insulting it is to, for these men, uh, to ignore 30 years of ministry, to ignore all those debates, all the stuff
55:15
I've just played here, and you don't even have the integrity to listen to the, to the dialogues and then say stuff like this.
55:30
What can I say? Oh, did you want to? Oh, you want to get in this, huh? Well, I'll be, I'll be brief. And then
55:36
I explained the definition of useful idiot to him. Yes.
55:41
And again, anybody who understands even the basic point of it is, if they're calling you a propagandist.
55:49
Yeah. It was Stalin's turn. No rational person can see it as anything but an insult. For a propagandist in the
55:56
United States who is a communist, they, he considered them to be useful idiots.
56:03
So not only are they propagandists for the communist party, but they're stupid. Yep. Well, that, that's the, that's the nature of it.
56:11
That's not an insult. Not in Len Pettus's world. Uh, Brandon House, James White and his fans attack me, the radio host, instead of guest experts,
56:20
DakDak and Haiti and I interviewed, because White is scared to debate them. And Scott Furlow says,
56:25
Hit on the, you hit it on the doornail. White is running scared now.
56:33
Yeah, I'm just so scared. I'm running scared. And then Brandon House, I think
56:39
James White should change his ministry slogan to make Islam great again. And, and he says we're attacking him.
56:49
Yeah. Make Islam great again. Let me, let me start wrapping stuff up here.
56:57
Uh, go a little bit past 4 .30, but I want to, I want to play you, um, two clips from the dialogues.
57:10
Um, let me start with the second night. And, um, the fact of the matter is folks, there is an entire industry amongst evangelicals and conservative
57:33
Republicans. This is the politics start getting involved here. I guess even Brand House even criticized me because evidently at some point, which
57:40
I don't even remember, I may have said something negative about Sean Hannity. I may have disagreed with something Sean Hannity said.
57:45
Oh, heresy. Um, there's a, there's a strong, strong level of politics involved with this that I want nothing to do with nothing.
58:00
Um, but there is, there are people who are making their living selling fear.
58:10
And the last, the last thing that they want is for Christians and Muslims to be talking to each other in a context of mutual respect.
58:26
They don't want that. That, that ruins their entire deal.
58:33
To many of these people, Muslim evangelism is yelling and screaming at Muslims, insulting
58:39
Muhammad, insulting them. That's what Sam Shimun does. That's what he thinks is evangelism.
58:47
And using every kind of, of, of invective that you can, that's how you prove your, your faithfulness to God.
58:58
And so when they see two people uncompromisingly confessing their absolute differences and yet recognizing in each other, someone who really believes what they believe, it drives them insane, drives them insane.
59:21
And so I'm going to show you two clips. Here's the first. This is the second night. And they almost never talk about the second night because the second night, that's when
59:30
I'm sitting in a mosque explaining the Trinity and the atonement. And you know, that's not, let's not talk about that.
59:38
But here, let's, do you have it ready? All right, here we go. Um, he had asked me yesterday if I remembered how he contacted me.
59:48
So I did a quick search about in my email about how that happened. Yes, I did. So apparently
59:53
Shabir Ali introduced the both of us by email. I think 2007 or 2008, long time ago.
59:59
And so he CC'd the both of us. And we had a lot of questions back and forth.
01:00:05
And I was honestly very surprised to meet a pastor online. So by the way, yesterday was the first time we actually met in person.
01:00:12
After speaking on the phone for hours and hours and hours, after corresponding back and forth for almost a decade.
01:00:19
Yesterday was the first time we actually met in person. And so he was asking such detailed questions.
01:00:24
I was honestly impressed. And he was using Arabic terminology that, again, it's rare to find a minister who speaks even, you know, words of Arabic.
01:00:34
So I was very impressed. So I said, give me your address. I'm going to send you some CDs that I have.
01:00:40
So I sent him my most detailed CD of Aqeedah, of theology, which is light of guidance.
01:00:45
It's the class that I teach for Maghreb. It says, you know, two double weekends. And it's been compacted into 16, 17
01:00:51
CDs. So I sent him the CD set. And I honestly thought he just, you know, put it on his shelf or something. He began bombarding me with a series of questions, very detailed.
01:01:01
And I was honestly just blown away. Like, you mentioned that Tawheed al -Rububiyyah has three categories.
01:01:08
I was like, what? These are questions that some of my students don't even ask me, okay? How do you define shirk and uluhiyyah in this way?
01:01:15
And we're going back and forth in this manner. And it was just so impressive and refreshing, really, to meet somebody who's taking the time to research what we actually believe from the sources.
01:01:28
And then he began asking me questions about hadith. So I sent him my CDs. No, not CDs. It was online. Series of hadith lectures
01:01:34
I gave about the sciences of hadith. And so he's studying mustalah al -hadith, like the terminology of hadith.
01:01:40
You know, sahih and hasan and daif and whatnot. And it's just, I mean, it's very impressive to meet somebody who's gonna be so dedicated to actually learn the sources.
01:01:50
So how do you get an opportunity to actually talk to these folks and to look them in the eye and to honestly say to them,
01:02:04
I care about you. And as a follower of Jesus Christ, the only reason
01:02:10
I have peace with God is because of what he's done for me. And let's talk about how we have peace with God.
01:02:18
And how does that happen? You don't do it by misrepresenting them.
01:02:25
You don't do it by pretending you already know what they believe. You actually have to know what they believe.
01:02:34
And that's what scares people to death because they don't do that kind of thing.
01:02:44
And there's a reason why they don't do that kind of thing. Last one, here is, this is the fundamental reason why there is so much pushback right now.
01:03:04
I mean, this happened months ago. And I am so thankful I had the opportunity to say these things.
01:03:14
People have said that this was an interfaith dialogue. They've lied through their teeth.
01:03:21
About what actually happened. They actually recognize that their followers are so unconcerned about truth that they will not even take the time to go watch these things themselves.
01:03:39
That's what was so shocking about Len Pettus. No, I haven't actually watched it. There's a credibility going bye -bye.
01:03:48
Because if you had, Len, you might've seen this. This was in the church.
01:03:57
We had an honest discussion. It had primarily been
01:04:04
Yasir Qadhi speaking. Just as the next evening, it was primarily me speaking because of the context we were in.
01:04:09
But we had had some give and take. There had been some discussion about aspects of the gospel. He had been very straightforward, keeping law, things like that.
01:04:17
It was very useful for people to understand. It gave Christians the context for understanding exactly what the
01:04:23
Muslims saying to them and vice versa. The next night, especially the vice versa part. But then we got to this point.
01:04:31
And you're not gonna be able to look at someone and say what I said to Yasir Qadhi here. If you continue to have the attitude that's been exposed and expressed in these comments that we've just looked at, it's not gonna happen.
01:04:48
It's not gonna happen. And I'll say one more thing. I cannot believe that the comments we've seen come from the hearts of people that are honestly praying to be used to bring the message of the gospel of Jesus Christ to the
01:05:05
Muslim people. That heart does not bring forth the vile communication that some of you use regularly.
01:05:18
Listen to what I said to Yasir Qadhi. Obviously, from the
01:05:23
Christian perspective, any Christian in the room recognizes that when you have a relationship with someone based upon respect, recognizing in them, we use the term image of God.
01:05:36
I realize that's not a Muslim concept, but it's that we are created by God. When you recognize in someone else a fellow image bearer, obviously it is far easier to model the love of Jesus Christ and to have the opportunity of modeling the gospel in front of someone when you have a relationship with them that is based upon respect and kindness and everything else
01:05:59
I think the greatest barrier for Christians in reaching out to the Muslim people is fear.
01:06:05
We have fear in our hearts. It's based upon ignorance. It's based upon other things. That's one of the reasons I wanted to do this.
01:06:11
And so the final question before we go to questions, we've actually gone three minutes over, but the last question we had in our little list is what we want for each other.
01:06:23
And we sort of just talked about that just a little bit, but we'll conclude with this. From a
01:06:29
Christian perspective, obviously, and this is why we can have these conversations,
01:06:35
I would be very uncomfortable just talking about our similarities if we weren't honest about what we really believe.
01:06:43
That's the kind of dialogue that I think a lot of people think we're doing, and it's not. Can I just stop there for a moment?
01:06:51
How many of you are going to repent for your lies online in light of what you just saw? Right there in the heart of what we're saying.
01:07:03
Anyone who called this some type of interfaith kumbaya, you were lying.
01:07:10
And there's the evidence. There it is. This isn't a matter of, well,
01:07:15
I just read that differently. No, I'm the one talking. I know my intentions. You have no counter documentation whatsoever.
01:07:25
There it is. Do you hear that? If you're a Christian, do you hear that?
01:07:37
Obviously, the greatest thing that I can hope for any person, if the greatest thing I can hope for my children is that they bow the knee in repentance and faith to Jesus Christ, and they receive a new heart, and they have eternal life, they have his righteousness, and they're going to have eternal life because of what
01:07:54
Christ has done. If that's the greatest thing I can hope for my children, then it's the greatest thing I can hope for anyone else. And so I can have friendships with Muslim people as long as we've had that conversation.
01:08:07
They know where I stand. They know what I'm praying for. But I know what
01:08:14
I'm going to be doing and have been doing for years, and that is I pray for Yasir Qadhi.
01:08:21
If I pray for Yasir Qadhi, I'm not changing God's heart. God's changing my heart.
01:08:28
He is making me to be the type of person that is going to be concerned about your welfare, concerned about your health, concerned about your safety, concerned about your family.
01:08:39
He's changing me. That's, you know, we're not trying to convince God to be better. God's already good.
01:08:45
He's changing us. And so what would it mean if the
01:08:51
Muslim people in your neighborhood knew that you loved them, cared for them, prayed for them, and were willing to do anything for them?
01:08:58
It would change everything. But unfortunately, that's not generally how they view us. And so my desire, what
01:09:07
I wanted, the final question was, what is our greatest desire for the other? And I know that obviously
01:09:15
I want your health and your happiness and all these things. But the greatest thing a
01:09:22
Christian wants for anyone is that they come to know Jesus Christ personally and bow the knee to him. And I would imagine from your perspective, you would love to see nothing more than for me to embrace
01:09:32
Islam and say the Shahada That would make me very happy, yes. The whole nine yards. So we...
01:09:37
I will not deny that. Okay, and I'm glad. Okay, so did you hear that? Did you hear that?
01:09:44
We talked, we had actually just before that talked about the reality that years earlier, when we were talking about doing a book, that as he had said, well, we get to the end of the book and, well, you believe
01:10:03
I'm going to hell and I believe you're going to hell. So what do we say about that? How do we deal with that? That we need to have a chapter on that subject.
01:10:14
It is just such a shame that there are so many people who because of their prejudices, their biases, their bigotry, will never have the opportunity of looking at a
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Muslim. And having earned their respect, be able to say my greatest desire for you is for you to have the peace that I have.
01:10:39
I've bowed the knee to the Lord Jesus Christ. Can I explain why? Folks, the
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Muslims that attended that beautiful church that evening, they were so kind to us and they've taken so much heat for this.
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I feel terrible about it, but I pray God will strengthen them to realize just what a light for the gospel they were.
01:11:00
Pray for that church. Pray they'll be protected from these hate mongers that parade under the name of Christ.
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Any Muslim that attended, and it was interesting the second night at the mosque, we asked how many of you were there and almost everybody was there.
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There was a good group and they traveled to be part of both of them. Any Muslim that was in that church that night, if the spirit of God ever starts working in their lives in the sense of drawing them to himself and as Christians, we believe there needs to be a, you know, you can't keep the law.
01:11:44
You can't pull yourself up by your bootstraps. Once that spirit born conviction starts happening, you know,
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Luther spent the six hours in the confessional, didn't get him anywhere. All the pilgrimages and everything else, just not enough.
01:12:02
If any Muslim in that building starts to experience the work of the spirit of God in their life, do you think they'll know which
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Christians to talk to? Which Christians they can go talk to?
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The ones with the signs outside saying, go away Muslims. The one saying, a
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Muslim's a Muslim. They're all the same. Those bigots, who are they going to go to?
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If they want to talk to a Christian, they're going to go to the Christians who actually showed them enough respect to recognize.
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And did you notice something? Some people think I'm just, when I, before I even used the phrase image of God, I know they reject the concept of Imago Dei and consider that to be not only questionable, but inappropriate.
01:13:03
And so I even took the moment to make it more easily understandable and less offensive.
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I wasn't compromising it. I was just saying, I recognize this is not terminology you all would use, but this is how we understand this.
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And I see in you a fellow creature of God. Who do you think they're going to talk to?
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And see, this is where the, this is where why we do what we do is exposed.
01:13:33
If you do Muslim ministry to simply demonstrate you're the great
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Christian warrior, defending the faith against the evil hordes, the
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Muslims are going to be able to tell that. Muslims will be able to tell that. And people say, yeah, but you've gotten soft 25 years ago.
01:14:02
Before I knew anything about Islam, training people to go up to Salt Lake City to witness to the
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Mormons, I would tell them, the Mormons can tell.
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Whether what you're saying to them is born from a heart of love for them, a love for the gospel, or whether you're just there to rip and snort.
01:14:31
I haven't changed. Except in this, I've come to realize that so many of those that I thought had the same motivations do not.
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And I've come to realize that we need as Christian people to be so much more prayerful about the attitude that we have in speaking not only to Muslims, but to Mormons and all the others.
01:15:06
There's a reason why apologists slash polemicists slash whatever have the reputation they have.
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There's a reason for it. There's a reason for it. Adorning the gospel of Jesus Christ, it's something that should be important to us.
01:15:25
So tomorrow, I'm going to have a special guest in studio with me. And we aren't going to talk about any of this.
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I hope, because I don't want to, and there's so much more important stuff to do.
01:15:40
And I hope to get started on a lengthy series that I mentioned last week before all this broke, where I'm going to be reviewing about the first 35, 40 pages of Abu Zakaria's new book.
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And once again, doing it in such a way that I hope when I get done Maybe I will extend to Abu Zakaria the opportunity to come on the program.
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And my hope is that because of the attitude that we demonstrate in even providing refutation, our heart will be seen.
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And hence there'll be a willingness to dialogue and discuss. Folks, that's why we've always done what we do.
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We haven't changed, but my are we under attack for daring to say that apologetics must be done in the sight of God in such a way that it is bathed in grace, truthfulness, accuracy, and respect.
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And if you don't do it that way, isn't there something else you could be doing, spending your time on?
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Possibly so. Possibly so. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time on The Dividing Line. God bless.