June 21, 2018 Show with Don & Cindy Currin on “A Woman’s Role in Missions” AND “The Hardships of the Mission Field”

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Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

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Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio platform on which pastors,

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Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

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Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

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Now here's our host, Chris Arnton. Good afternoon,

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

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This is Chris Arnton, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Thursday. On this 21st day of June 2018,

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I'm so delighted today to have not only a returning guest, but also a first -time guest on together.

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I'm speaking of Don and Cindy Curran. I've had Don on the program before, and this is

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Cindy's first interview on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. Don and Cindy Curran are from Don Curran Ministries, and they are involved in multiple ministries, including itinerant ministry, with Don serving as Eastern European Coordinator with HeartCry Missionary Society in Radford, Virginia, and caring for the

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Providence Gospel Church in Tuscumbia, Alabama, and as their interim pastor.

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And Cindy Curran speaks to women in conferences and churches in Canada, England, Norway, Egypt, Romania, and across the

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United States. And today, both Don and Cindy Curran are going to be addressing a woman's role in missions, and then they're also going to be addressing the hardships of the mission field with a special emphasis on 1

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Corinthians 16, verse 9. We're also going to be announcing some upcoming events, including the

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Fellowship Conference New England in Portland, Maine, and also an event where my guests will be speaking,

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Don and Cindy Curran, the 2019 G3 Conference, where I, God willing, will be in attendance manning an exhibitor's booth for Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

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But it's my honor and privilege to welcome you to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Don and Cindy Curran. It's a joy to be with you,

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Chris. Thank you so much for having us, Chris. Oh, it's my pleasure. And I'm going to give our listeners our email address right away.

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It's chrisarnsen at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

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Please give us your first name, at least, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the

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USA. Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

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Before we go into the subject at hand, or should I say the two subjects at hand, Don, let's start with you and have a summary of your personal testimony of salvation, and then we'll move on to Cindy.

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We'd like to know what kind of religious atmosphere, if any, you were both raised in, and what providential circumstances came about in your life through the sovereign hand of God that drew you to himself and saved you.

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So, Don, if you could start. Certainly, Chris. I grew up as a Southern Baptist.

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My mother probably manipulated me to go to church more than I ever had any desire to go.

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But the first 20 years, I attended various Southern Baptist churches, and quite honestly, there was no reality.

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I'm not saying that the gospel, on occasions, was not preached, but it was never really accompanied with power, not in the sense of the

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Spirit of God speaking directly to my heart. And then, at 20 years of age, after being a failure in so many areas of my life, including academically, no incentive for living, no purpose or drive in life, just living for what

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I could get out of each day. My mother said, if you want to go back to school and you expect me to help you financially, you're going to go where I tell you to go.

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Now, my dad and my mother were together, but my dad did not take the leadership role on many occasions, so Mother had to step up to the plate, and so she gave me this ultimatum, either go where I tell you to go, or I'm not going to help you financially.

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And so I ended up going to what at the time was Lynchburg Baptist College in Lynchburg, Virginia, which ultimately became

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Liberty Baptist College and then Liberty University. My very first Christian girlfriend,

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Barbara, was a student there and then later taught at Jerry Falwell's elementary school.

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That is very interesting. Well, my dear wife is a, she was born in Lynchburg, Virginia, but we did not meet.

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She had moved to Chase City and then of course come back, but I met her in Bible School as well.

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But anyway, getting back to the testimony, at 20 years of age,

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Dr. Falwell had a citywide crusade with a notable evangelist come in, and the second night of that crusade,

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October 4, 1974, I had never heard such preaching.

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There was such a sense of God upon it as the evangelist preached from a very simple text of John 3, 16, where he amplified what it means to perish under the wrath of God, but also

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I displayed before my very spiritual eyes the love of God, and God gripped my heart that night, showed me that my religion was a sham.

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I repented of all my religiosity as well as my sin and put my faith in Christ alone for salvation, and that's what

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I go back to as my conversion experience, Chris. Great, and now

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Cindy, if you could. Yes, Chris, I did not grow up in a home where we attended church very often.

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I did take a bus to church sometimes as a child, and when I was about 12 years old,

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I rode a bus to church, and I made a profession of faith and asked Jesus to come into my heart, and didn't go to church very long after that.

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Later, when I was in high school, a new church started in the town where I lived, and I began to attend there, thinking that I was a

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Christian. I became very involved in the church, but never had any peace that I had peace with God, that I really knew

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Him, and I talked to my pastor many times. I would talk to every visiting evangelist that came and never found that peace, and so my pastor influenced me to also go to, it was

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Liberty Baptist College by 1975 when I went, and my third week in school, a preacher by the name of Dale Faith and Bill Jr.

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came in and preached on false conversion, and God just broke my heart and made it so clear to me that I had never genuinely been born again, and He saved me, and I had really struggled with such a weight on my shoulders, wanting to know that I was going to heaven and not knowing what else to do, and God relieved that burden that night and set me on a path walking with Him, and it has been such a joy to walk with Christ over these years.

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Amen. Well, since you mentioned Lynchburg, Virginia, I'm going to give a shout out to my old friends Marty and Debbie Holgren, who live in Lynchburg, and Debbie Holgren was one of the children of my late wife's pastor

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Don Blend, who was the pastor for many years at First Baptist Church of Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York, and what a dear friend he was, and he is also in heaven with my wife and especially with Christ for eternity.

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Well, let's hear something about Don Curran Ministries now and about your activities with this organization.

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Okay. The ministry officially became a non -profit organization back in 1981,

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Chris. It was really birthed right out of my academic work there at Liberty.

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I was still working there, or attending school there, when I went out from the school and would do itinerant work.

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I worked with Treasure Baptist Soul Winning, J .O. Grooms, who happened to be the Soul Winning Director of Thomas First Baptist Church, and then

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I also worked with the Christian Service Evangelistic Team. So I got my feet wet there, and then, of course, as soon as I graduated in 1979, embarked on an itinerant ministry slash associate pastorate ministry.

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I was trying to get exposure. The church was able to pay me a little bit of financial support when

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I was in off the road, but we tried to build from there, and I remember the first year, we did like six meetings during the year.

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The next year was nine meetings, and then we built up from there. So we've been at it now.

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The ministry itself, Don Curran Ministries Itinerant Ministry, is 43 years old, and I've been working with Heart, Pride, and Missionary Society for the last 10 years as the

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Eastern European Coordinator with that ministry, and then, of course, been pastoring this little church, basically still interning for the last five years in Tuscumbia, Alabama.

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Yes, and I am hoping, God willing, to have, for the very first time as my guest,

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Paul Washer at some point in the future. His pastor, Anthony Mathenia, has told me that he is fairly certain he can get

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Paul to come on the program, and Anthony's going to return to the program because they are both involved in the conference where you and Cindy are speaking, the

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G3 Conference, and I mentioned Paul Washer. Some people might be scratching their heads because I didn't say why

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I was mentioning Paul. Paul is the founder of Heart, Pride, and Missionary Society, correct? That's correct.

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Right. Well, tell us also now about the G3 Conference in College Park, Georgia, the suburb of Atlanta where the

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Georgia International Convention Center is located and where the G3 Conference has been held for the last three or four years.

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This is going to be my third G3 Conference in January, God willing, where I am manning an exhibitor's booth.

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I love the G3 Conference, and it has been of enormous benefit to Iron Trump and Zion Radio because of the people

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I've met there. I've actually not only gained new listeners and new guests, but also new sponsors.

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It's been a great blessing to me. Tell us about your involvement, both you and Cindy, at the

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G3 Conference in January of 2019. Well, Chris, let me just go back and say that how we became introduced to the

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G3 Conference was years ago. Cindy and I were invited to speak on a cruise for Josh Bice.

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Josh was, between the time that he graduated from Southern Seminary until he took over the pastorate there at Praise Meal Baptist Church, and so Josh invited us to come and speak to his people on a cruise down to the

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Bahamas. And so I know that really sounds like we were really suffering for Jesus, and we were overwhelmed by the invitation, but I got to know

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Josh, had a sense of his heart, the burden he had for revival as well as just a return to Reformation theology.

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And so we've stayed in touch over the years, even though I've been directly involved in the

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G3 Conference the last four or five years since it first began. But a few months ago,

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Josh called me and he said, Don, we'd like for you and Cindy to come and share. It doesn't even have to necessarily be on the subject of missions.

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He said, you just share whatever God may lay on your heart, he said, because I believe it'll be edifying.

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And so anyway, very supportive of the ministry down there, very grateful for what

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God's put in Josh's heart, and I know with the wonderful format of speakers that he's had over the years, it's been a tremendous source of edification to the

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Church of Christ at large. And Cindy, you're speaking there as well, and I know that in our day and age, you're going to have people from our theological circles getting very nervous when they hear about a woman speaking in a conference, because they are typically, folks in our circles are not egalitarian, we are typically complementarian.

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But tell us about why you are speaking there, and what you're speaking on, and how to alleviate any anxiety from the complementarians listening.

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Okay, first of all, I'll begin by saying Don and I both take the complementarian view in Scripture, and I have a strong conviction

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I will not teach men. So the conferences that I speak in are typically women's conferences, exclusively for women.

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Occasionally I am asked to speak in conferences where my husband is speaking, but it's always exclusively to the women.

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So I don't teach men at all, I don't have any desire to teach men, and I believe that the

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Scripture prohibits women teaching men the Scripture. So Josh invited me,

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I believe, as Don said, we first met him when we did this marriage conference years ago, and then he invited me back to do a ladies' conference at his church,

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I don't know, four or five years ago, and so I know his ladies a little bit. And when he asked on to speak, he asked if I would speak to the women.

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It will be in a breakout session just for the women. And he's given me liberty to share whatever that I feel the

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Lord would have me share, but I would like for it to dovetail with the rest of the conference, which will be on mission.

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So I think the Lord would have me share on the role of women in world mission. Great. Well, I am very jealous right now of Josh Bice.

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I don't know if you're aware of this, but he actually just celebrated John MacArthur's 79th birthday with John MacArthur, and I would

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I would love to have been there. I had

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John as a guest on my program years ago, on the old Iron Sharpens Iron radio program broadcasting out of New York.

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I hope to get him back on again. It has been a lot more difficult recently, but what a gift to the body of Christ John MacArthur has been and continues to be.

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He certainly is. And by the way, if anybody wants to find out more about the

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G3 conference that we were just discussing, where our guests Don and Cindy Curran will be speaking and a long host of others.

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In that are scheduled to be on the roster, Paul Washer, John Piper, Stephen Lawson, Vody Baucom, Mark Dever, Conrad Mbewe, who is,

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I think, the most powerful preacher on the planet Earth, the pastor of Kabwatha Baptist Church in Lusaka, Zambia, Africa, and Chancellor of the

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African Christian University. Tim Challies, Phil Johnson of the aforementioned ministry,

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Grace to You, founded by John MacArthur. Josh Bice, who we were also just mentioning, founder of the

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G3 conference, which, by the way, stands for Grace, Gospel, and Glory, if I didn't mention that. Todd Friel of Wretched TV and Radio.

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My friend Jeremy Volo, who, if you don't know him, you've got to get to know him. He is a wonderful brother in Christ and a very gifted speaker.

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And his dad is a dear friend of mine. His dad is actually an evangelist to the Amish and has been used of God to lead a number of Amish people to the true gospel and to a saving faith in Jesus Christ.

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Martha Peace is going to be there and more folks. So, if you'd like to register, go to g3conference .com,

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g3conference .com, and please tell them that you heard about the conference from Chris Arnzen on Iron Trap and Zion Radio, and we'll be repeating information about this conference later on.

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Well, let's move right in right now to the topic at hand.

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We are going to be discussing two aspects of missions. First, we are going to be discussing a woman's role in missions, and then the second hour, the hardships of the mission field.

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But if you could, perhaps, Cindy, if you could start on this topic of a woman's role in missions, since you are a complementarian, obviously you don't believe a woman could do absolutely anything and everything that a man would do on the mission field, but if you could tell us what exactly it means to be a woman on the mission field and what are the proper biblical functions and roles of a woman.

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Yes, I'd be delighted to address that. We see in the

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Scripture that women played a decisive role in the ministry of Christ, and they have continued to influence

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Christianity and be used by the Lord to spread the Gospel throughout history. As complementarians, we believe that women are equal with men in every way, but we have been given different roles within the body of Christ, and so 1

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Timothy 2 prohibits a woman from teaching men or from exercising authority over men, but the

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Scripture does not prohibit women from teaching whatsoever. And so we are told in Titus 2 that the older women are to teach the younger women, and we have other examples such as Priscilla and Aquila personally teaching and explaining the ways of God to Apollos, and so God has used many gifted women on the mission field without them violating

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His biblical role for women. So, obviously many women have gone to the mission field as married women and have supported their husbands in many ways, such as Ann Judson, Adoniram Judson's first wife.

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She helped to translate the Bible in Burmese, she opened a school for girls.

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Adoniram Judson's second wife translated other works into Burmese and was working on Colburn's Progress at the time of her death.

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She translated hymns, and then we have other examples of married women who have helped their husbands in various ways, such as Hudson Taylor's wife.

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She took care of him, his second wife took care of him primarily because he was sickly and he had been injured, but she was also involved in editing the periodical for China Inland Mission.

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And then we do know of single women who have gone to the mission field and been used by God, but they did not pastor churches or teach within the church or have positions of authority within the church, such as Gladys Allward and Amy Carmichael, and there's so many that primarily minister to children or to other women, and so there are many things that a woman can do on the mission field.

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Really, the only prohibitions I see in the scripture are she is not to have a position of authority within the church and she is not to teach the men.

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So other than that, there are many. There's mercy ministries. I know you mentioned

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Conrad Mbewe, and we love Conrad and his wife, and his wife and some of the other women in his church had a ministry to prostitutes.

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They have a large area of prostitution there in Zambia and they have a ministry there where they go and share the gospel with those women, and then when they come to Christ, women that come to Christ, they provide work for them so that they can support themselves or support any children that they might have.

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So there are many opportunities for women on the mission field other than pastoring, leading, or teaching men in the church.

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Yes, there is. Even amongst complementarians, there are different understandings and views in more nuanced ways in regard to the role of women.

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Like, for instance, when Priscilla and Aquila opened up their home in the

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New Testament account of their marriage and they had unbelievers visit their home, did not

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Priscilla in some way join her husband in a role of teaching without actually having a title or office of a teacher?

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I'm really not sure. I'm just certain from Acts 18 that she was involved in teaching

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Apollos, and many egalitarian women will say that there is an example of a woman teaching in the church, but the

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Scripture doesn't say that, and it seems clear to me that they were teaching

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Apollos in the confines of their home. And I know also in Romans 16,

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Paul mentions and commends Priscilla as well as Aquila as fellow workers in Christ, colleagues.

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So they were a husband -wife, evangelistic sort of team dedicated to spread the gospel, but I'm not certain about the teaching the unbelievers.

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That's something interesting for me to investigate. Right. Well, was she at any rate, as you were just saying, she had some role in instructing

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Apollos though. So as you said in the outset, even though we do not believe that women are to have an office or an official role as a teacher in the church, that obviously all women who are

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Christians are to proclaim the gospel. They're not always to keep their mouths shut when they see an opportunity over lunch at work or wherever they happen to be in the day -to -day routine of their lives, online at the supermarket, wherever, and they have an opportunity to share the gospel.

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Women are to do that, even on occasion to men, aren't they? Yes, I believe that we all have been commissioned and commanded to share the gospel.

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With the lost people that God places around us, and you see areas of ministry like that that are not designated for men or for women, but for every member of the body of Christ.

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And Don, do you have anything to add? No, I do not,

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Chris, at this time. I think that, once again, we need to understand, and my wife and I both believe, even though this is a conviction

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God's put in our heart, that the women individually and their role within the context of the local church is extremely important.

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It's a very lofty position, and so therefore, no one should decipher or attempt to read something into our comments that, well, here they are, they have a contempt for women, they look down on women.

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Not at all. Women are a very invaluable piece in the church of Jesus Christ to perpetuate

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God's glory and to advance the kingdom of God. Right. I mean, in just the same way that not every man, even not every godly man, saintly man, obedient man, not every man is qualified to be a pastor.

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And that does not make his pastor superior to him.

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He just has different gifts and a different role in life to play.

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And wouldn't you agree that in the same way where you cannot cry misogyny or male chauvinism in regard to a woman having a different role in the church, but nonetheless being equal in the sight of God, you could equally say that even includes within the discussion of men in leadership, not every man, and it's not always because of sin, but not every man is qualified to be a leader in the church.

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Exactly. Correct. Correct. Yeah, I think what determines that is that call, as you say, also what comes with that call is spiritual giftedness, and obviously is personal integrity.

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I mean, we have known men that do have a call, and they have been commissioned by the church to fulfill that call, and unfortunately they morally default, and consequently they lose the ability to continue to be used in a great capacity for the kingdom.

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So that doesn't mean that God can't still use them in spite of their moral failure. What it does mean is that they have forfeited a great degree of their usefulness because of their indiscretion or perhaps their failure in a moral capacity.

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Well, we have a listener in Alaska who actually knows both of you, who has a question for both of you, and I usually don't give our listeners full names, but because this brother is a pastor,

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I will mention his full name. I'm talking about John Cardwell, and he is delighted that the both of you are on the show today.

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He says, let me see here, I have to enlarge it. Hi Chris, this is

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Pastor John Cardwell of Calvary Baptist Church in Ninilchik, Alaska, and I'm sorry if I'm mispronouncing that.

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Ninilchik, I think that's the way you pronounce it. Alaska, formerly pastor of Sovereign Grace Baptist Church in Anniston, Alabama.

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I am currently in Ninilchik, Alaska, and his question, oh he says,

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I want to send our love and greetings to Don and Cindy Curran from my wife

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Lisa and I. Don and Cindy have ministered to our church in Alabama and to us personally in ways too numerous to mention.

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We love them, their service to the Lord, and we pray we might have a time to be together again.

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Thanks to you also Chris for your radio broadcasts and your service to the King. And the actual question that John has is, many women, especially the wives of pastors and missionaries, but it seems to be everywhere

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I've ministered for all kinds of Christian women, struggle with the pressure and anxiety of expectations.

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In other words, what others think of her or expect of her because she's the pastor's wife or missionary's wife or deacon's wife, etc.

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What has helped you, Cindy, deal with overcoming this struggle and also what hasn't worked?

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Well first I'd like to greet John and Lisa. Thank you so much for those kind words. I do remember feeling that in the beginning when we were first married.

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As I said, I didn't grow up really in the church, and I didn't feel that I was very gifted in areas that I saw many pastor's wives gifted, such as in music.

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I am not gifted musically at all, and so my limitations helped in one way.

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But then also just some godly men and women that really encouraged me in the role that God had for me at that time as a wife and a mother and occasionally teaching the children or the women in the church.

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I remember one time Don and I met with Dale and Judy Fazenfield, and Dale just talking about the beauty of the husband and wife complimenting one another in ministry, and he said that when he would go into churches for crusades, he would often be asked, so what does your wife do?

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And he would tell them, my wife sees that I'm taking care of and takes care of our children, and that's her ministry right now.

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And just, I saw the beauty of their relationship, and that helped me.

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And then my husband also guarded and protected me. I tend to say yes too often and take too much onto my plate, and so Don would sometimes tell me, you cannot do anything else, it's too much.

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And so he helped protect me in that way. And as I grew in the

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Lord, I began to cherish the role that I had. And so often we would go into meetings and someone would ask me, so do you sing?

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Do you play the piano? What do you do if you're part of this ministry? And I would respond,

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I'm shepherding a little flock of four. And that was my primary responsibility during those years.

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Praise God for that. And it's amazing how society for decades has looked down upon that role when it's really the most crucial role any human being can have, the nurturing and rearing of children, because a lot of what mothers do in the home, a lot of what they do will determine what kind of an adult that child will be and what kind of contribution to the community and world that adult will make.

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I mean, it's just amazing to me how it is scoffed upon when especially feminists and other liberals, or should

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I say leftists, belittle the importance of that very vital role, probably the most vital of all roles.

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I totally agree with that. And when you read back in history, you see that motherhood was valued.

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It was praised. And we have lost that in our culture by and large.

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And so I do all that I can to encourage young mothers that you are doing something so very important that no one else can do.

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No one else can take your place in raising those children. And I feel like I have, we have four children, we were blessed with four children, and I believe that our four children are making a greater impact for Christ than I would ever make alone.

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And so I am so grateful to have had the privilege to be their mother. Praise God.

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We have to go to our first station break. If you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own, our email address is

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ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

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Please give us your first name, at least your city and state and your country of residence if you live outside the

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USA. And please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

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That's ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. Don't go away. We'll be right back with Don and Cindy Curran and more of our discussion on missions.

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and I am so grateful to Solid Ground Christian Books for sponsoring Iron Sharpens Iron Radio for all these years.

39:55

We are now back to our discussion with Don and Cindy Curran. We are talking about different aspects of missions.

40:04

We are talking about the role of women in missions to begin with, and in the next hour, we are going to be addressing specifically hardships in missions.

40:16

If you'd like to join us on the air, our email address is chrisorensen at gmail .com, chrisorensen at gmail .com.

40:22

Please give us your first name, city and state, and country of residence if you live outside of the USA. We have someone else who knows the both of you.

40:31

We have Donna from Waterboro, Maine, and she says, Hi Don and Cindy, miss you two very much.

40:40

Here's my question. Could you speak to those women who are confused as to their role as a wife and mother and feel that it is the only ministry they have right now?

40:51

Is it right to believe that they can only minister in their home while their children are young?

40:57

Is that the exclusive role of a woman to only be a mother and housewife and homekeeper?

41:04

Can she do other things while she is maintaining successfully and biblically those activities?

41:13

Well Chris, absolutely she can. I think though she needs to have just a very close relationship with her husband that he can properly discern whether she is bitten off more than she can chew.

41:26

If he feels like that she's doing an adequate job, you know, serving him, also shepherding the hearts of the children, then say,

41:35

Honey, you do have some time here if you'd like to devote it to this particular ministry that's available in the local church or in some outreach capacity.

41:45

But I think, you know, as Cindy mentioned a few moments ago, there are some women with temperaments or even with spiritual gifts or desires that, man, they just see a need and they feel like that constitutes the will of God across the board.

42:02

Consequently, they overextend themselves, and we men do this as well. We have a tendency to take on so much that we don't do anything with excellence before the

42:12

Lord. And so I think it's imperative that any sister be very sensitive to her husband and has that kind of relationship with him that he can caution her and say,

42:24

Honey, perhaps right now this ministry may not be in the woodwork for you because of your time and your physical resources, but maybe down the road you could do something like this, and I would just wholeheartedly commend that.

42:37

Cindy, what's your thoughts, honey? First of all, hello, Donald. We miss you as well.

42:44

I totally agree with what Don said. I don't think the Scripture prohibits a woman with children in the home from being involved in other ministries, but other than her personal walk with Christ, her husband and her children should be her primary ministry.

43:03

So we just have to be careful that we don't take on more ministry that diminishes our time that we should be spending on our first callings.

43:15

Well, thank you, Donna. Please keep listening to Iron Sharp and Zion Radio and spreading the word about this program in Maine and beyond.

43:25

One other thing I wanted to say about this whole discussion as a way of clarification, because I know that there are feminists and egalitarians who may eventually hear this who will still even be upset by what you just said, by what both of you said, because they think what complementarians are saying is that the husband or the man specifically is intrinsically in some way superior to a woman.

43:58

For instance, they may say, well, the reason why these roles are the way they are is because men are intrinsically more intelligent.

44:08

They are gifted in a far superior way in communicating the truths of the

44:15

Bible. You know, you could go on and on and on, but that has nothing to do with why a woman submits to her husband or why a member of a congregation submits to their elders.

44:27

It's the way that God has ordained it. And even if a woman is extremely superior in her intellect to her husband and superior to her husband in many ways, she still must submit to him because that's the way

44:42

God ordained it. Am I right in this? Yes, absolutely.

44:47

Absolutely. And we don't take a hard -line view on that, Chris. I mean, we're with a bad spirit about it.

44:54

Once again, we applaud the lawfulness of women that God is behind, but at the same time, women need to understand their

45:06

God -given roles within the context of the home, the Church, and society, and minister out of that,

45:14

I might add, with great freedom when they do, accordingly. So yes, we're not in any way lessening the value of a woman.

45:27

As a matter of fact, I'll be the first to admit, I think mentally speaking, my wife is far more superior than I am.

45:35

She's much smarter at grasping and assimilating things mentally and being able to articulate them than I am.

45:44

But it's interesting, I was invited to come and do a conference in Paris, France, by a missionary, and the theme was complementarianism versus egalitarianism, and he wanted me to tie it all into the

46:00

Trinity of God, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Well, I mean, that thing gave me stretch marks for months in my operation.

46:09

I had all kind of brain cramps, I didn't know what in the world, where am I going with this?

46:15

And then he gave me a heads -up twice, once before I got there and once when I got there.

46:20

He said, now even our own women in the Church, if they ask a simple question, he said, they've got such a threatening tone in their voice, you're going to think they're mad at you.

46:30

And so he had me walking on eggshells, my nerves were on the end when

46:35

I got there, but I sought to be extremely biblical. I was very respectful and also used a tad of humor during the course of the lectures, and it was amazing.

46:49

I mean, we had a woman pastor there, we had a lady that was lesbian there, we had various other women that were very strongly rooted in feminism.

46:59

Even when they asked questions, whether they were members of the Church or outside, it was with great respect.

47:07

But I think it's because, I'm convinced, I try to convey to women that yes, you have a very lofty role in society and the

47:16

Church and in the home, we need to respect that, but yet at the same time you need to understand what your biblical position and role is within each context.

47:28

Cindy? Well, I would just say that I agree with everything that you said, Chris. I don't know any complementarians that say men have these certain roles that women are not to fill because they are more intelligent or they're superior, intrinsically superior, or for any other reason.

47:50

We simply believe this way because it's what the Bible teaches, and the Bible tells us why

47:57

God ordained it this way. In 1 Timothy 2, when the women are prohibited, it says, "...I

48:04

do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence." The Apostle Paul went on to tell us why.

48:11

He said, "...for Adam was formed first, then Eve, and Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived fell into transgression."

48:19

And so the Scripture is very clear about why these roles are the way they are, and it goes all the way back to creation.

48:27

It doesn't have anything to do with the intrinsic value of the male or the female. Right. To be perfectly honest,

48:35

I have had conversations from time to time with people, not generally pastors, but just your average person just like I am, who will say things in ignorance.

48:50

For instance, they will just say, oh, that woman should not be a pastor, because we all know that men by nature are better in the places of authority, and on and on they will go.

49:02

And I have said to them, brother, you've got to really not speculate as to the reasons that are not in the

49:09

Bible as to why a man is to be the sole head of his home and of the church.

49:16

Obviously, he is sharing headship over the children with his wife, but I'm talking about, but I said, when you start giving your own theories on things, you're getting into trouble, because you're adding to what the

49:29

Word of God, the inspired Word of God could have, or God Himself could have easily put that reason in there if He chose to, but He did not put that in there as a reason.

49:41

Exactly. And another thing that I like to bring out when I teach on this subject is what

49:47

Don referred to as the Trinity. The Scripture tells us that Christ willingly submitted

49:56

Himself to the Father, and it says that God the Father is the head of Christ, just as the man is the head of the woman.

50:04

And Christ is no less deity than His Father. He's just as valuable and precious, but He just fills a different role in the

50:16

Trinity. And it's the same with the husband and wife. It has nothing to do with value.

50:22

It has everything to do with role. Yes, Christ is... Yeah, if I could piggyback on my precious wife's comment there,

50:31

Chris, 1 Corinthians 11, verse 3, to me, gives a very sound answer to this, but I want you to know that the head of every man is

50:43

Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is

50:48

God. So what makes it so beautiful is this subordinate role of each, and the ultimate fulfillment is carrying out the roles in life with that thinking in mind.

51:04

It makes all the difference in the world in determining a right, respective, and God -glorifying functionality in relationships.

51:14

Well, Cindy, I'd like you to summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners in regard to this specific topic before we go to our midway break and move on to the other aspect of missions, hardships and missions.

51:28

If you could just summarize in about a minute what you most want our listeners to remember about the role of women in missions.

51:35

What I would like to leave with your listeners is that God wants to use all of us in missions, whether it is with our neighbor across the street or on the foreign mission field.

51:49

We all are called to share the gospel of Jesus Christ and to serve wherever he has placed us providentially.

51:58

And so women have a very important role to fill in that calling, and I'm so grateful for that.

52:06

I feel like sometimes women feel what we're doing is not important, and as you said, our role in the home is vitally important.

52:15

And so I'm just so grateful to be a woman and to have these opportunities to serve the

52:21

Lord, and I'm glad that I don't have to choose the way he wants me to serve. He's already told me how to serve, and so I find joy and fulfillment in that, and I hope that your other listeners that are ladies will find joy and fulfillment in the same way.

52:38

Praise God. We're going to our elongated break right now. It's 12 minutes because Grace Life Radio in Lake City, Florida that airs this program every day in a rerun format, they require of us a 12 -minute break between our two segments so that they can air their own commercials and public service announcements.

52:57

So please take this time to write down more questions for Don and Cindy Curran on the hardship of missions.

53:03

If you do have a question about the role of women in the church or mission field, you can feel free to continue that subject with your question.

53:11

But primarily, if you have a question about hardships in the mission field, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com,

53:19

C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com. Please give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the

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USA, and please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. Also, use this time to write down information provided by our advertisers so that you can patronize them because the more you patronize our advertisers, the more likely they will remain supporting

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01:00:14

Paul wrote to the church at Galatia, For am I now seeking the approval of man, or of God?

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Or am I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ.

01:00:25

Hi, I'm Mark Lukens, Pastor of Providence Baptist Church. We are a Reformed Baptist Church and we hold to the

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Paul's mindset to be much more concerned with how God views what we say and what we do than how men view these things.

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That's not the best recipe for popularity, but since that wasn't the Apostle's priority, it must not be ours either.

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01:05:22

Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio. Before I return to our discussion with Don and Cindy Curran, we just have some very important announcements to make, especially in regard to events.

01:05:35

On Sunday, July 1st, our dear friends at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Medford, Long Island, New York are going to be hosting

01:05:45

Dr. Tony Costa for a Sunday morning message. Dr.

01:05:50

Tony Costa is the Professor of Apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary, and he is a dear friend of mine, and he is a phenomenal preacher, apologist, and debater, and he will be speaking at the

01:06:03

Sunday morning service at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Medford, Long Island, New York. For more details, go to hopereformedli .net,

01:06:12

hopereformedli, which stands for longisland .net, or call 631 -696 -5711, 631 -696 -5711.

01:06:24

The following Friday, I am having a very important conference in New York City featuring

01:06:32

Dr. Tony Costa as well. I am, in cooperation with New Covenant Church New York City and Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio, presenting a free

01:06:42

New York City seminar on Friday, July 6, 6 .30 p .m. to 10 p .m.,

01:06:47

to be held at the historic facilities of First Baptist Church of New York City on the corner of 79th

01:06:54

Street and Broadway in Manhattan's Upper West Side. This is a historic church that goes back at least to the 1700s.

01:07:02

One of the pastors there, John Gano, was a personal chaplain to George Washington, and that has continued as a church to the present day.

01:07:13

As I said, Dr. Tony Costa, author and professor of apologetics in Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary, will be the speaker.

01:07:20

His messages will include defending the faith in a postmodern society, and the dangers of cultural

01:07:27

Marxism's impact on society and the church. There will also be a question and answer session to follow.

01:07:34

For more details, you can call New Covenant Church New York City at 646 -770 -2282. 646 -770 -2282.

01:07:44

You can also email them at nccnycinfo at gmail .com.

01:07:52

That's N -C -C, which stands for New Covenant Church, N -Y -C, New York City, info at gmail .com.

01:08:00

N -C -C -N -Y -C, info at gmail .com. Or you can email me, chrisarnson at gmail .com,

01:08:06

chrisarnson at gmail .com, for more questions about this exciting event. I hope that all of you who are able to get to New York City, whether you live in New York especially, or if you just live nearby, or if you live far away but just have the ability to take a plane, train, or automobile to New York City, please be there for this first Iron Sharpens Iron Radio event in Manhattan.

01:08:32

I've had many events, and I've attended events in Manhattan to represent

01:08:37

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, but I've never held my own event in New York City, so please be there. It's absolutely free of charge, and I hope to see you there.

01:08:45

Then, coming up in August, the aforementioned Fellowship Conference New England is going to be taking place.

01:08:54

In fact, I'm going to quickly ask, I know that Don Curran is not speaking this time around, but he has in the past.

01:09:01

Can you tell us about your experience speaking at the Fellowship Conference New England, Don? Yes, Chris, a wonderful tenor.

01:09:12

There's reality in the fellowship, reality in praise and worship, and then the preaching is just very

01:09:19

Godward. I was very thrilled to be there.

01:09:24

A number of young people were present to ask a plethora of questions, very good questions, and just the entire atmosphere with the speakers, the people who registered,

01:09:38

I would just say it was very engaging and very edifying in those days, and we just thoroughly enjoyed it.

01:09:44

Yes, and this is one of those rare conferences where there is no central theme. Each speaker can address whatever is burdening his heart most at that time, and it will be held

01:09:54

August 2nd through the 4th at the Deering Center Community Church in Portland, Maine, and the speakers include, all of these men have been guests on Iron Trump and Zion Radio, and they will be returning again very soon to be on this program to promote the conference.

01:10:13

Pastor Tim Conway of Grace Community Church in San Antonio, Texas is one of the speakers. My dear friend

01:10:19

Pastor Mac Tomlinson, who is an author, a book editor and publisher, and pastor of Providence Chapel in Denton, Texas.

01:10:26

He's also a financial supporter of Iron Trump and Zion Radio. I praise the

01:10:31

Lord, and I thank God for Pastor Mac and the folks at Providence Chapel in Denton, Texas for sending me an urgently needed check that we needed to pay various bills that were already late, and Pastor Mac and his congregation were a godsend for sure by helping us out with a donation.

01:10:53

Also, Pastor Jesse Barrington of the Grace Life Church in Dallas, Texas is speaking.

01:11:00

Grace Life Church in Dallas, Texas is a sister church of Grace Life Radio, a Grace Life Church, I should say, in Lake City, Florida, and that church has, owns, and operates

01:11:13

Grace Life Radio, which airs Iron Trump and Zion Radio every day. Sorry for being a little tongue -tied there.

01:11:20

We have Pastor Nate Pickowitz, who is an author and the pastor of Harvest Bible Church in Gilmanton Ironworks, New Hampshire.

01:11:29

Those are speakers. Go to fellowshipconferencenewengland .com, fellowshipconferencenewengland .com,

01:11:36

and please tell them that you heard about Fellowship Conference New England from Chris Arnsen on Iron Trump and Zion Radio.

01:11:42

Then we have, in November the 9th and the 10th, the

01:11:47

Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals is having their annual Quaker Town Conference on Reform Theology. I will be there,

01:11:54

God willing, manning an exhibitor's booth for Iron Trump and Zion Radio. It's going to be held at the Grace Bible Fellowship Church in Quaker Town, Pennsylvania.

01:12:00

The theme is The Glory of the Cross, and the speakers include David Garner, Ray Ortland, Richard Phillips, Timothy Gibson, and Carlton Winn.

01:12:10

If you'd like to register for the Quaker Town Conference on Reform Theology on The Glory of the

01:12:16

Cross, go to alliancenet .org, alliancenet .org, click on events, and then click on Quaker Town Conference on Reform Theology.

01:12:23

Please tell the Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals that you heard about that conference from Chris Arnsen on Iron Trump and Zion Radio.

01:12:30

Then, the conference that I mentioned in the beginning of the show, where Don and Cindy Curran are speaking, a very important conference to me personally, a conference that has meant a great deal to Iron Trump and Zion Radio, that's the

01:12:44

G3 Conference, which stands for Grace, Gospel, and Glory. It's going to be held Thursday, January 17th, through Saturday, January 19th, at the

01:13:00

Georgia International Convention Center in College Park, Georgia, which is a suburb of Atlanta. They are expecting over 4 ,000 people to attend this conference, and I am so delighted that I will be there,

01:13:12

God willing, once again, manning an Iron Trump and Zion Radio exhibitor's booth. The theme is The Mission of God, A Biblical Understanding of Missions, and they have an enormous roster of speakers.

01:13:24

The speakers at this conference this coming January include such great speakers as Paul Washer, Conrad M.

01:13:36

Bayway, as I mentioned earlier, Todd Friel of Wretched TV and Wretched Radio.

01:13:44

We can even say that my friend Anthony Mathenia, who is Paul Washer's pastor, will be there.

01:13:50

He's also involved in HeartCry Missionary Society, the organization that my guests Don and Cindy Curran are involved in, and Stephen Nichols, who's the president of Reformation Bible College, the college founded by the late

01:14:05

R .C. Sproul and many more folks on that roster. If you would like to register, go to g3conference .com,

01:14:15

and click on G3 Conference 2019. You can not only register to be an attender of that conference, but you can also register for an exhibitor's booth if you have a church, a power church ministry, a business, or something that you believe has great value for the body of Christ, and you want to have an exhibitor's booth to be in attendance there with your publicity material, so that when those 4 ,000 plus people are milling around, they can discover or be reminded about your organization.

01:14:49

Go to g3conference .com, g3conference .com, for either reason, either for just attending or for registering for an exhibitor's booth.

01:14:57

And please tell Josh Bice and the folks at the G3 Conference that you heard about them from Chris Orensen at Iron Sherpins Iron Radio.

01:15:04

Very briefly now is my least favorite part of the program. As you know, I keep saying that every day, but it's something that I have to do.

01:15:11

I have to beg you for money. And Iron Sherpins Iron Radio, for years, never had one single public appeal for donations.

01:15:20

I never wanted to do it, and I never did do it for years, but my advertisers who are spending hard -earned money keeping this show on the air have urged me and urged me and urged me to do this.

01:15:30

So for the last number of months, every day, I have been coming forward with these public appeals because we need the money or we will go off the air.

01:15:39

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01:15:46

We've got some very generous people out there who have been sending in generous checks. I thank

01:15:51

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01:15:56

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01:16:05

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01:16:19

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Please, if you love this show and you don't want it to go away, give as much as you can and as often as you can. But here's the caveat that I try to remember to tell you every day, please do not siphon money away from your regular giving to your local church where you are a member.

01:17:07

Please, if you are not a member of a local bible -believing church and you're not prayerfully seeking for one, you are living in rebellion against God, you must find a local bible -believing church and join it and be under the authority of its elders.

01:17:19

And I can help you find one, just send me an email to chrisarnsen at gmail .com. I have lists of biblically faithful churches all over the world and I can help you find a church as I already have helped close to 10 people recently find good churches.

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01:18:12

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01:18:24

You don't have to believe identically as I do. I don't know if there's anybody on the planet earth that believes identically as I do, but as long as whatever it is you're promoting is compatible with what we believe, we would love to have your advertisements on ironsherpinsironradio .com

01:18:38

because we really could use the advertising dollars as you know. It's chrisarnsen at gmail .com. You could also use that email address to send an email for Don and Cindy Curran, our guests today.

01:18:51

If you have a question regarding the mission field specifically and especially hardships in the mission field, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com,

01:19:00

chrisarnsen at gmail .com, and please give us your first name, city, and state, and country of residence if you live outside the

01:19:06

USA. Don, why is it that you wanted to, of all the topics under the umbrella of missions, why is it that you wanted to discuss the hardships of the mission field today?

01:19:19

Well, I think that probably the primary reason, Chris, is because there are so many people in the

01:19:25

United States right now who I feel like have a romanticized view of missions.

01:19:34

Oftentimes, fantasy has a tendency to overtake reality of life, and I'm meeting a lot of young people who are aspiring to go to the mission field, and the beginning of real missionary hardships is right here on the, you know, domestic turf.

01:19:57

And what I mean by that is there's a number of issues that need to be covered before young people or anyone else considers going abroad to a foreign field.

01:20:08

Namely, are you really committed, as you mentioned a moment ago, to a local church? Within that local church, would they classify you as a biblically -principled man or woman to go forward and endeavor to carry the gospel to some part of the world?

01:20:27

In other words, when I say a biblically -principled man, are you a young person, let's say, under authority?

01:20:35

Can you submit to a leadership of God -delegated authority? Do you show integrity in what you believe, in how you live, in your walk with God, in your work ethic?

01:20:51

And so things of this nature, oftentimes, I feel like kind of are overridden or overlooked because of this romanticized view of missions, thinking that my field of dreams, so to speak, once I get there,

01:21:10

God's going to come through for me, and everything is going to be wonderful in my mission endeavor.

01:21:18

These are some realities on this side of the pond that need to be covered before we ever go to the other side, and then once you get there, there's going to be a torrent of hardships that you'll have to wade through with the help of Christ in your mission field.

01:21:40

So anyway, that's what I'm talking about. I feel like mission hardships are not just on the field itself, but even before you go, there are some things that are going to require you to step up to the plate and trust

01:21:54

God by His Spirit to mortify in your life, to prepare you to go and serve Christ.

01:21:59

Now, I know that there are all types of mission fields, there are all types of different cultural circumstances in different parts of the world, even in the

01:22:09

United States, people who are involved in domestic missions, or people from other countries who are missionaries to the

01:22:15

United States, but what are the most common hardships or difficulties that you could mention today?

01:22:23

Well, I mean, obviously I think that the big thing in your own heart is pride and unbelief.

01:22:31

Interestingly, I was talking to Brother Paul Washer today earlier, and you know, you can pray for him, he's not doing extremely well right now physically, without going into any details, he's got some tests coming up and he's asked for prayer, but he told me,

01:22:51

I said, well how are you doing though? And he said, I'm doing wonderful. And even though, you know, with the physical trials that he's been enduring the last little while, and some of them very severe, yet looking at it from an eternal perspective, he sees this as God's will for him right now, that these afflictions are worth their weight in spiritual gold, because he's recognizing that these have been sovereignly sent to perfect the life of Christ in him.

01:23:21

Consequently, he is embracing what he calls the grace of weakness in a much more firm effect.

01:23:31

And so I say to people going, probably one of the most formidable opponents would be your own heart, dealing with pride, dealing with unbelief, once again establishing credibility in your own walk with God up front.

01:23:51

If we're looking at what we experience on the mission field, obviously these days you've got the general cynicism of the public.

01:24:05

The gospel is not loved, it is not appreciated, even though it's predicated upon the principle of divine love itself.

01:24:13

Yet when you begin to talk about the exclusivity of the gospel, when you're talking about the necessity of from your false religion, anything, when you really begin to detail the true gospel of Jesus Christ, it is nothing short of scandalous in the eyes of a cynical public.

01:24:37

And therefore, it's something that consequently is going to incur a lot of criticism and assaults from people that you're going to have to by faith weather.

01:24:49

We have, let's see, we have

01:24:55

Ronald in eastern Suffolk County, New York, who has a question for you. He says,

01:25:00

I have heard different stories from missionaries overseas where the temptation is great, especially when facing hardships of various kinds, to be more cooperative than would be biblically warranted with those religions and churches surrounding you that do not believe in the gospel of Jesus Christ.

01:25:25

Have you found this to be a common thing in your own experience that you've witnessed, and is there any realm of cooperation that missionaries can be participating in with those that deny the biblical gospel and specifically the protestant historically reformational gospel that we believe to be the biblical gospel?

01:25:46

I'm not speaking about spiritual ecumenism or gathering together for religious worship services or events, but I'm speaking, is there any realm where we can rightfully cooperate with those folks?

01:25:59

Now he starts off by saying, as you may remember, that he's heard that there's a lot of people who are actually involved in the wrong kind of ecumenism, when they're out there feeling perhaps all alone in the mission field, and they see the very nice Roman Catholic priest right down the road in the village, and you might want to be tempted to be involved in some kind of a crusade or evangelistic event with that person, but that would be obviously wrong, and what's your comment on that?

01:26:29

Well, let me say, first of all, I believe that the Bible teaches evangelical unity, but it does not teach ecumenical unity.

01:26:40

I can fellowship with a person, let's say, that is not reformed in their belief theologically, but I cannot join hands with people that deny the virgin birth, or the inerrancy of Scripture, or the deity of Jesus Christ, or that salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone, and Christ alone.

01:27:02

These, to me, are cardinal doctrines that are not to be negotiated or compromised under any circumstances.

01:27:10

I'm not to defend that position, Chris, in a spirit of mean -spiritedness.

01:27:16

I want to maintain a composure of Christlikeness, even in dealing with people that I could not collaborate with in some type of ministry endeavor.

01:27:27

But to really answer the question, I know, and that's one of the hardships, is great loneliness, and at times you're abandoned by people that are even some of your closest friends.

01:27:39

So the temptation is to meet consistently with someone that perhaps does not believe in the cardinal doctrines of the faith, and suddenly you find yourself laughing with them and enjoying their presence.

01:27:58

But I think that in the long run, it proves to be very detrimental, because even the most formidable spirituality in men and women oftentimes can be compromised for the sake of quote -unquote fellowship in the gospel.

01:28:15

And if they deny the intent of the Christian faith, there is no basis of fellowship whatsoever.

01:28:25

But can't they enjoy, just as you, I'm sure, you have friends and neighbors who are not believers, and they do certain things together, and they even use those recreational things, or even when you're giving physical assistance to somebody that's a non -believer, you are giving

01:28:47

Christ the praise, honor, and glory by identifying yourself as a Christian, and by doing them these, or performing these acts of mercy, just as in James, for instance.

01:28:59

Of course, it is debatable, some would say that James, when he is giving a prohibition for just telling somebody, be warm and filled, and sending them away without their physical needs being met, there's debate over whether that's a

01:29:15

Christian in the congregation, or whether it could be a non -believer. But I'm sure that all

01:29:22

Christians believe we have to do some acts of mercy and kindness and grace with unbelievers, and even enjoy their company in some ways, at sporting events and all kinds of things.

01:29:32

Aren't there things like that that could be done in the mission field? Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, whether it's sporting events, whether it's some type of social activity,

01:29:41

I'm not saying that we are to be isolationist. I think that we need to cultivate friendships, and whatever you want to call it, whatever you want to term that type of evangelism, whether it's friendship evangelism or whatever, there's nothing wrong with building these relationships for the sake of the

01:29:57

Gospel. It just needs to be that we make every effort to do that.

01:30:03

What I'm talking about is a structured thing, let's say, in the name of the local Church, in the name of the

01:30:09

Lord Jesus Christ, that we're doing to evangelize someone, to solicit the help of someone else that denies the very

01:30:17

Christ, or denies something that's very major in regard to the tenets that relate to Christ, then that's where we have to draw the line.

01:30:26

We cannot ask them to come on board with us, or we cannot come on board with them for an evangelistic endeavor, because everything, once again, is based upon the

01:30:36

Gospel of Jesus Christ. And if there's a tampering with, or a destroying of some tenet of that foundation, then, of course, we have no grounds to serve the

01:30:49

Lord together in some type of Gospel capacity. Now, how about digging a well, or something like that, with some local

01:30:59

Catholic priests, or some kind of physical thing that is of physical benefit to the community, whether it's a priest, or possibly even a

01:31:09

Jehovah's Witness, or a Mormon, or something. Could you do something like that when you're out on the mission field? You know,

01:31:16

I would have to say you have to exercise caution, because I know that in Eastern Europe, for example, the greatest opponent that the evangelical community has there is the

01:31:30

Orthodox Church, which is an offshoot of the Catholic Church. If some of our missionaries were to get together for some type of community service with the

01:31:40

Orthodox, the culture, the people around them, would not understand that. In their mind, it would send a message of confusion.

01:31:49

So I think in some cases, in some countries or cultures, that might be acceptable, which once you know the climate, once you know the culture, the people, then you know whether or not you'd have the liberty to participate in some type of physical endeavor of that nature.

01:32:06

But I think in other countries or cultures, that would be viewed by the general public as something compromised.

01:32:12

Now, and I guess I'm assuming then you would certainly say if you were to help of those with the compassion of Jesus Christ, who are priests or ministers in a false religion, that you would just make yourself clear that, you know,

01:32:30

I just want to let you know that I'm not doing this because I have an ecumenical mindset with you.

01:32:36

I don't believe that you're my brother, but I love you, and I care for you, and I care for the people in this village, so I want to help you accomplish something that everyone here needs.

01:32:45

Wouldn't that be appropriate if you made your position clear? Absolutely, absolutely. I remember years ago,

01:32:51

I was up in Mount Carmel, Pennsylvania with a pastor, and he had cultivated a relationship with one of the

01:32:57

Roman Catholic priests there in the area, and he invited me one day to go to lunch with him, and the three of us sat around the table.

01:33:05

It was quite an education for me as I listened to this priest talk. I know in some circles, some people wouldn't feel at liberty of doing something like that, but this guy had done some physical work for the priests, and I'm talking about he had done some yard work for them, this

01:33:22

Baptist pastor had done some yard work for the priests, and it built this relationship with the purpose of sharing the

01:33:28

Gospel with him, and it was interesting that day that both of those men had a real mutual respect for one another, even though they knew they were 10 ,000 miles apart theologically.

01:33:40

I'm going to read you a question that I just forwarded to you, and I'll have you answer it when we return from our final break.

01:33:47

This is from Joe in Slovenia, and I forwarded the question to you and Cindy at your both of your different email addresses, and Joe says,

01:33:59

Dear Brother Chris, thanks for being a wonderful catalyst for global missions. The greatest and most consistent hardship faced by many missionaries is the lack of ongoing engagement by elder -led local churches.

01:34:13

Many solidly orthodox missionaries long for godly elder -led local church accountability.

01:34:28

And I know that our listener who has sent in emails many times before from Slovenia, he is a southern

01:34:36

Baptist missionary, he is not, I just want to let our listeners know, he's not talking about eastern orthodox missionaries, he's speaking about biblically sound missionaries, is what he means by orthodox missionary.

01:34:47

I've been personally seeking for this for years, with no churches willing to step up and accept the challenge of deep engagement.

01:34:55

Please ask the currents to address the need for pastors and elders to own the responsibility to lead the local church to take the reins of global missions firmly and provide support and leadership.

01:35:10

Thank you for all, thank you all for encouraging us today. That's Joe in Slovenia, and I'll have you respond to that when we return from our final break.

01:35:18

If anybody wants to join us on the air, now is the time to do it with your question or forever hold your peace because we're rapidly running out of time.

01:35:25

Our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com, don't go away, we'll be right back after these messages from our sponsors.

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That's solid -ground -books .com. We are back with our final 20 minutes or so of our interview today with Don and Cindy Curran, and they are talking about the hardships of the mission field.

01:40:57

And if you'd like to join us do so now please quickly because we're running out of time. Our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

01:41:05

Before the break I read to you a question and also a challenge, a word of commentary from Joe in Slovenia.

01:41:16

It was so lengthy that I wanted to make sure I emailed it to both of you so you could also look it over during the break.

01:41:22

And so what do you have to say to Joe's urgent plea for he joins the many solidly orthodox or biblically sound missionaries.

01:41:37

They long for godly elder -led local church accountability and they're seeking for this for years with no churches willing to step up and accept the challenge of deep engagement.

01:41:51

And I'm assuming that they want even churches from America to send out people to perhaps join these local churches on the mission field to become a part of the leadership there.

01:42:03

But if you could, unless I'm misunderstanding Joe, but if you could respond to Joe in Slovenia's comments and questions.

01:42:10

Yes Chris, yes we re -read the question and my response would be it's unfortunate but what he's saying is a legitimate concern.

01:42:23

There are so many missionaries I believe globally that fall through the cracks because it seems as if in our churches, particularly in the states, we're so preoccupied with various needs within the congregation that we don't take the time to connect with these people to make sure what their needs are so we can pray for them and provide the accountability that they so desperately need.

01:42:48

I think mission boards, even though they're not the ideal, they're not the ideal.

01:42:55

The local church is the ideal. It is the biblical pattern, but the leaders within that church need to take the initiative to reach out to the missionaries, particularly that they support, to provide the encouragement that they need.

01:43:13

And I think they can do that. Once again, I feel like in our local church, we would really like to have at least one, if not a few, go and visit our missionaries at least once a year and just see what the needs are on the field, sit down and decipher what this missionary is going through in their own heart, what their struggles are, and bring back a fresh report and perspective of what

01:43:38

God's doing. I think there's no excuse these days when you look at things like Skype, various other means by which you can literally closely connect with missionaries and sit and talk to them face -to -face and listen to what's going on in their field of the world.

01:43:59

And I'm doing that now. I have some people globally, I believe because of my affiliation with HeartCry, that call and literally have set up our little local church here in Tuscumbia as their mother church, just for the sake of accountability, where they have the liberty of calling me periodically and saying, look,

01:44:22

I've got this need or I need this word of counsel. What would you advise me to do? So, yes,

01:44:28

I think the brother's right on. My heart goes out to people like Joe. I believe that elders and leadership at local churches need to take the initiative to stay abreast to what the needs are of these missionaries around the world.

01:44:43

Well, thank you, Joe. Keep spreading the word about Iron Sharpens Iron Radio in Slovenia and beyond. Before we run out of time,

01:44:50

I want to make sure you address everything that you want to address in regard to 1 Corinthians chapter 16, 9, and let me read that.

01:44:59

For a wide door for effective service has opened to me, and there are many adversaries.

01:45:06

That's obviously the Apostle Paul writing this to the church at Corinth. Can you explain what specifically this has to do with the specific topic we're addressing today about hardships in the mission field?

01:45:20

All right. Obviously, you can't talk about everything behind the text there or all the implications, but the point is that conflict and attacks will be inevitable for those that engage in gospel enterprise.

01:45:37

I remember the old Southern Baptist itinerant, Van Tavener, said years ago, I'm afraid of any religious movement that does not arouse the bitter opposition of entrenched evil.

01:45:49

And we know that with every type of effectual door, and in the context there,

01:45:55

Paul has found an incredible enthusiasm among the general populace of Ephesus to the gospel that he's preaching.

01:46:07

Not only is there an enthusiastic receptivity to it, but they're seeing people come to Christ.

01:46:15

He's experiencing great liberty and unction in his preaching. The gospel is not just coming in mere word, but in power and in the

01:46:22

Holy Ghost and in much assurance. However, with that, it was accompanying these attacks, these rising up of the enemies of the cross that attack the

01:46:36

Apostle, that seek to destroy his credibility and also his message. So that's the inevitable.

01:46:43

I believe that if we're God -sent, if a man or woman has a call from God to go to a particular region of the world, whether, and it's not just around the world,

01:46:55

Chris, it's right there in the community, and if they begin to present the true gospel of Jesus Christ, it is going to incur a great deal of opposition.

01:47:06

People will misunderstand them. People will attack. People will sow discord to try to undermine or overthrow their ministry in any capacity they can.

01:47:17

So it is inevitable for anyone that I believe embarks on any type of gospel endeavor.

01:47:25

Yeah, and going back to what we were discussing before about cooperation when you are working hand -in -hand in some kind of physical way to provide a physical need for some group of people in the mission field, and you're working with a priest in the

01:47:46

Church of Rome or the Eastern Orthodox Church or some other false religion, if you are preaching the true gospel, it is going to be offensive to those who are not regenerate.

01:48:01

It's going to be offensive especially to those in religious leadership, typically, of religions that deny the true gospel.

01:48:13

So it may also narrow down the number of people that are going to be willing or even asking to work with you on those things if you are known for believing that you have a gospel that is different than theirs and that you are, although you will treat all people with love and compassion, you will not tolerate a false religion being preached and seducing those amongst your own flock or the people of the community.

01:48:47

Yeah, it's amazing to me, Chris, you don't even have to have even a spirit or demeanor of intolerance.

01:48:54

You can very lovingly and with a disposition that's full of grace present the true gospel of Christ, and in the gospel itself is a sword that really cuts against the grain of their belief, of their philosophy.

01:49:10

And I mean, for example, flying into Norway, the first time I went there for a conference,

01:49:17

I was talking to a Norwegian on the plane that spoke very fluent English, and I went to the gospel with him, and he agreed, and he smiled, and he was very compliant.

01:49:27

And then when I came to the end, and I mentioned the exclusivity of Christ, that Christ is the only way to heaven,

01:49:34

I mean, I was standing right on the threshold of a firestorm. I mean, this guy got so angry in his seat, he just turned away, and I mean, his whole demeanor from the time he left the plane until the time we went to get our luggage,

01:49:50

I mean, he was very aloof and looked at me with such hostility in his eyes.

01:49:57

So it's amazing. We don't have to have any type of antagonistic spirit about us with the intent of letting people know that there's a difference.

01:50:09

I mean, the gospel itself, if it's spoken biblically, has a sword within it that it's going to create a spirit of opposition to its content.

01:50:21

Yes, I have been told by missionaries and even itinerant evangelists who have gone to places like India and who have evangelized

01:50:33

Indians who are Hindus, and a Hindu may have and will typically have absolutely no problem at all with you believing in Jesus Christ, with you believing that Jesus Christ is

01:50:47

God, and without you not have any problem with you being a

01:50:52

Christian until you say to the Hindu, Jesus Christ is the one and only

01:50:59

God, and he is the only Savior of mankind, and you must repent of all idolatry and abandon all false gods and turn to this one and only hope for salvation,

01:51:13

Jesus Christ. That's when the Hindu will get angry and may, depending upon who that Hindu is, may even try to murder you as there have been, even not long ago in the 21st century, there have been

01:51:27

Christian ministries murdered and burned alive by Hindus.

01:51:32

One family in particular, I believe from Australia, were burned alive in their car as Hindus with long poles held the doors of the car shut so that they could be, so that the the murderers could be far enough away from the flames not to be hurt, but so that the car doors would be welded shut by the force of the poles and the people inside would be burned alive.

01:51:58

So, I mean, Hindus are not all like we see in many TV and movie depictions of them where they're all these peace -loving yoga instructors and have nothing but peace, love, and harmony on their minds.

01:52:13

There are some very cruel and barbaric Hindus out there, but that's a long way of saying that many people, in fact most people, don't mind you loving

01:52:24

Jesus. It's when you start talking about who that Jesus is from the Bible that they start to get upset. Yes, yes, absolutely.

01:52:32

You know, it's interesting if I could just sort of complement what you're saying there. If you look at the passage in 2

01:52:41

Corinthians chapter 10, verses 1 through 18 there, I suppose there's a very clear theme that emerges out of that content there, and I see it as facing attacks, signing approval, and in the whole context there,

01:52:59

I think that everything in regard to Paul's resilience and his composure under such intense attack by his adversaries be summed up into this one thought, and that is

01:53:12

Paul was assured of his call. And it's amazing, you don't need the financial funding, you don't need the approval of the people that you respect in the clergical ranks.

01:53:26

The thing that will sustain you in the midst of the most severe opposition is a call of God, because with that call there comes supernaturally sustaining grace.

01:53:39

And so I just encourage anyone out there, I mean, if you have a call whether it's to pass your own domestic soil or to be a foreign missionary or a servant, any type of capacity, if you're preaching a true gospel, you're going to incur persecution or opposition, but the thing that will preserve and sustain you in the midst of it all is a gospel call.

01:53:59

Well, I would like each of you now to have two minutes apiece to summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today.

01:54:07

We'll start with Cindy, and then if you could conclude the program, Dawn, that'd be great. Cindy? Yes, I just, as I summarized a little bit earlier, just want to encourage all of the

01:54:20

Christian ladies out there that God has a high calling for every one of us, and that is to walk with him, and to know him, and to love him, and to share his gospel, whether it is with our children in our homes, as well as our neighbors, and on the foreign mission field, wherever God has placed us, we are responsible.

01:54:44

And his role for us is beautiful. It's just precious, the role that God has given us to serve as women, and so just learning to be content in that and to rejoice in that is such a means of grace in our hearts.

01:55:03

And Dawn? Yes, and I would summarize what I've said, Chris, in saying that I think that probably our greatest refuge theologically is the sovereignty of God, and of course in Reformed context we oftentimes might just sound like a broken record when it comes to underscoring the importance of it, but really true contentment is an embracing of the sovereignty of God.

01:55:37

And I see today that once again, conflict, persecution is inevitable.

01:55:44

As one missionary director said to a pastor, the mission field is littered with uncrucified flesh.

01:55:54

There's divisions, there's a lack of integrity, there's such reproach that sadly many missionaries have incurred because of anger or whatever, but the thing we've got to understand is

01:56:07

God is at work in testing the authenticity of our faith, and he gives us so many wonderful ways of taking refuge in Christ, and one is recognizing that God is behind it all, creating these circumstances and adversities to perfect the life of Christ in us.

01:56:29

So I want to encourage the listening audience today, whether you're in ministry, whether it's on the foreign field or here, or if you're a lay person that's incurring persecution for the gospel's sake in your workplace, listen,

01:56:43

God is for you, and the sovereignty of God is a worthy refuge that will give you the most sustaining grace to help during times of trial.

01:56:55

Don't fear. Don't buckle. Endure hardship as a good soldier of Jesus Christ, and the

01:57:02

Lord will help you and perpetuate the gospel through your brokenness and difficulty.

01:57:09

Amen. And as far as the doctrines of grace are concerned, those who are opponents or even enemies of the doctrines of grace, nicknamed

01:57:20

Calvinism, nicknamed Reformed Theology, they will say that Reformed Theology and missionary endeavors are incompatible, they're like oil and water, and the irony is that I have heard from many of those who are

01:57:38

Calvinists or believers in Sovereign Grace or Reformed Theology in the mission field, is that in their experience, it is the

01:57:45

Arminian mission boards that very often—I'm not going to broad brush—but very often are more likely, much more likely, to yank a missionary off the mission field prematurely just because they're impatient about the fruit that is born from that missionary's labors, whereas a person who is a believer in the doctrines of grace will be more patient and persevere because he knows or she knows that the

01:58:10

Lord has his people from out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation that he has elected who will come forth eventually, even if it's not in the lifetime of that missionary.

01:58:21

Yes. Yes, I agree. Absolutely, brother. Well, we're out of time, and I want to make sure that all of our listeners have all of your contact information.

01:58:31

First of all, Don Curran Ministries can be found at doncurranministries .org, and Curran is

01:58:37

C -U -R -R -I -N, C -U -R -R -I -N, doncurranministries .org.

01:58:44

Please don't forget about the G3 Conference, where Don and Cindy Curran are on a long roster of speakers this

01:58:52

January. For more details, go to g3conference .com, g3conference .com.

01:58:59

I will be there, Manning and Exhibitor's Booth, there in College Park, Georgia, at the

01:59:05

Georgia International Convention Center, amongst the crowd of 4 ,000 -plus people,

01:59:11

God willing. So please come out there. I urge you. I would love to see many more of my listeners for Iron Sharpens Iron Radio there in the audience.

01:59:19

Don't forget about my event coming up very quickly, the free seminar in New York City at First Baptist Church of New York City in the corner of 79th and Broadway, July 6th, that's

01:59:30

Friday, July 6th, from 630 to 10 p .m., featuring Dr. Tony Costa of Toronto Baptist Seminary.

01:59:37

I want to thank you all for listening. I want to thank especially those who took the time to write in questions. I want to thank

01:59:42

Don and Cindy Curran for being such wonderful guests, and I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater