Is Muhammad Prophesied in the Bible?

Good evening and welcome to tonight's debate is Muhammad prophesied in the Bible organized by members of the

Muslim debate initiative Thank you all for coming and participating in today's discussion Today's debate will feature discussion whether Muhammad sallallahu alayhi wa sallam is prophesied in the

Bible Is there no evidence for this or is there an argument to be made that in the

Torah and in the Christian New Testament There may exist a mention of him or allusion to him. That's something a

Jew and Christian would recognize We invite you today to listen to both speakers with an open mind and decide this for yourself the event is hosted by the

Muslim debate initiative a platform for open debate dialogue and discussion between Muslims and other communities for the promotion of the

Islamic values of free and open discussion and criticism for the pursuit of truth Today's event is being held at in East London mosque

This is our third event in this mosque and the fifth debate We have hosted in this mosque contrary to scaremongering and propaganda by various Islamophobes and far -right

Muslims actually welcome debate and Engaging in us with us in a sincere and intellectual fashion

In fact, the first public debate between Muslims and Christians was held in the mosque by the

Prophet Muhammad sallallahu alayhi wa sallam himself with Christian Arab tribe from Najran The Christians and Muslims held a civilized debate over three days and at the end of it

The Christians still rejected the Prophet's invitation to Islam making clear that they do not believe he was a prophet

So what did the Prophet do? Islamophobes would have us believe that the Muslim response would be to torture abused though these those

Christians till they relent But of course, it's not what the Prophet did He instead he set an example for all

Muslims to follow into the day of judgment Which is he treat them kindly and according to reports even offered them the use of the mosque for Christian prayers if they needed to Use it before leaving

Sadly this is not the Islam you'll hear in the media So in this vein today's discussion will follow the example the

Prophet Muhammad sallallahu alayhi wa sallam It will be open. It will be frank. It will be critical and it may even be controversial, but it will be marked by respect

My name is Abdullah and Lucy and I shall be your host for tonight's event. So let me introduce our speakers on my left

I have brother Zakir Hussain who's an upcoming speaker and debater within the Muslim community in the

UK Having only recently just joined the public debate platform the Muslim debate initiative he's previously and held one debate with a messianic

Jew and he has he has Campaigned and worked to organize many other debates in Birmingham UK where he is based

He currently specializes in engaging with Christianity and is continuing to build his repertoire of knowledge and experience in this field to my right and your left is

James White James White is a director of Alpha and Omega ministries a Christian apologetics organization based in Phoenix, Arizona He is a professor having taught

Greek systematic theology and various topics in the field of apologetics He has offered or contributed to more than 20 books

Including the King James only controversy the forgotten Trinity the Potter's freedom and the

God who justifies he is an accomplished debater having engaged in more than 100 moderated public debates with leading proponents of Roman Catholicism Islam Jehovah's Witness and Mormonism.

Well, all you need is Rasta foreignism you got the whole set As well as critics as Bart Ehrman John Dominic Crossan Marcus Borg and John Shelby Spong He is an elder of the

Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church and has been married to Kelly for more than 28 years and has two children

Joshua and summer Tonight's event will proceed as follows 30 minute presentations each speaker 20 minute rebuttals by each speaker

Then 10 minutes second rebuttals followed by a crossfire and then three minutes conclusions

Briefly just running through code of conduct Which we do in every debate In order to maintain a respectful environment.

We ask there's no shouting jeering or disrupting our esteemed speakers during their presentations Please turn off all your mobile phones or set them to silent

And we also ask you to limit your applause to the end of each speakers presentation we would also like to remind everyone that all views are welcome and ask all participants to maintain the quorum and Adhere to required etiquette of such discussions now without much further ado kicking off with the with the case

That the prophet Mohammed is a prophesized in the Bible. I'd like to welcome our first speaker brother

Zakir Hussain you have the podium I Like to greet everybody here with the greeting of all the prophets

The same greeting that Jesus Christ himself in Luke chapter 24. We went to the upper room set to his disciples

Shalom, Aleikum, peace be with you Since we follow the last and final messenger prophet

Muhammad peace be upon him We say the same thing in the Arabic dialect. So assalamu alaikum may peace be with everybody

Now While my brother Abdullah was given the opening for both speakers and he mentioned that is

Mohammed prophesied in the Bible I already view the Christian in the crowd who nodded his head like this.

This is not what we need. This is Not the spirit of dialogue what everybody here should do is sit here with a blank slate

Nobody's trying to enforce their view on nobody if you reject it rejected that's between you and God we accept it

That's between us and God. No need to nod our heads. Let's have a blank slate and be fair That's the only thing you lot would want from Jews when you try to prove that Jesus is in the

Bible So let's be fair and frank. I Think that's the best we could be Okay Now why do

Muslims insist that prophet Muhammad peace be upon him was foretold in the previous scriptures? Well, dr.

White has said it himself the Quran itself claims this so we can't know where we can't deny it

We accept the Quran as the unaltered speech of Allah. So we accept that prophet Muhammad peace be upon him foretold in the

Bible to us It's clear All I expect from dr. White is if I present passages to be consistent

Please do not use Arguments against my case that can also be applied to the Christian methodology of Jesus in the new in the

Old Testament That's all I ask fair dr. White always speaks of consistency So maybe he can teach us tonight how to be consistent since he hasn't found a consistent

Muslim yet according to him Okay And it's my voice clear to everybody

Okay Now in surah 7 157 This is what it says

Those who follow the Apostle The unlettered prophet whom they find described in their own scriptures in the

Torah and the Injil the law and the gospel In surah 61 6 it says the followers

I remember Jesus the son of Mary said all children of Israel I am the apostle of Allah sent to you

Confirming the law which came before me and giving glad tidings of another messenger to come after me whose name shall be

Ashman But when he came to them with clear signs, he said this is evident sorcery

Now when you come to our sources, I haven't got the next part on my slides

But I'll just read it to you. Was there an expectation of a prophet in Arabia in the 7th century?

according to our sources Like I'll quote Zadulmar or in a seal nectar page 3 and on 14

When prophet Muhammad peace be upon him sent a letter to the king of Egypt Magog is invited him to Islam.

This is what Magog is wrote in his letter. Peace be upon you I have read your letter and understood his contents or what you are calling for I already know that the coming of a prophet is still true, but I used to believe that he would be born in Syria Also the king of the

Byzantines in the 7th century who we refer to as Heraclius He said the following in a reply to a letter

I have already known that a prophet must arise, but it never occurred to me that he will be an

Arab from among you And last but not least though there are many sources

I have to keep it brief Abdullah bin Salam radiyallahu anhu a Jewish rabbi in Medina who upon seeing prophet

Muhammad peace be upon him He said I recognized him from his description Now most of the

Christians here will probably be thinking are these Muslims fabricated these sources But I still believe that I can prove from the

Bible that there was an expectation of a prophet and you can still find his description Today, so if I can prove these points our sources are true simple.

So now I'm going to get into the meat of the topic the first Prophecy of prophet

Muhammad peace be upon him is a promise of a great nation from mr. Abraham and Ishmael In Genesis chapter 12 verse number 2

God says to Abraham I will make you into a great nation and I will bless you in Genesis chapter 17 verse number 20

God repeats it to Ishmael as for Ishmael I have heard you I will bless him and make him fruitful and exceedingly numerous

He shall be the father of twelve princes and I will make him into a great nation

The same promises said to Ishmael's mother now many Christians will be thinking

Hold up wasn't Ishmael a wild donkey of a man who said I said to cast out and he was thrown at the covenant

Muslims are misquoting. Well, if dr. White wants to take that position. I've got plenty of rebuttals for that inshallah

Now, how was the great promise fulfilled? Do you really believe that according to God a great nation is a powerful nation who's numerous but the idol worshippers

Anybody who reads the Ten Commandments knows that God is a jealous God who does not like ideology and he would never call an

Arab idolatrous nation a great nation According to the Christian apologists dr.

Anisha rush in his book Islam revealed page 208. He writes the following I will make him a great nation was fulfilled when the

Muslim Empire was a reality from the 1712 centuries Why don't we ask the

Arabs themselves? How they seen their nation before the coming of Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him. This was probably one of the first Dialogues between Christian and Muslims.

It wasn't actually a debate is when Muslims were persecuted. They went to a Christian country called Abyssinia Abyssinia Ethiopia Jaffa reveal our know a relative of Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him

When he was speaking to the king of Abyssinia, he said the following Oh king, we were a people in a state of ignorance and immorality

Worshipping idols and eating the flesh of dead animals Committing all sorts of abomination and shameful deeds

Breaking the ties of kinship treating guests badly and the strong among us exploited the weak

We remained in this state until Allah sent us a prophet one of our own people whose lineage

Truthfulness trustworthiness and integrity were well known to us He called us to worship

Allah alone and to renounce the stones and idols which we and our ancestors were used to worshipping

This is what the Jewish rabbis behind the stone edition Qamash commentary admit on page 76

We see from the prophecy in this verse that 2337 years elapsed before the

Arabs Ishmael's descendants became a great nation with the rise of Islam in the 7th century

Throughout this period Ishmael waited anxiously until finally the promise was fulfilled and they dominated the world

Let's ask yourself. What a great nation is to Moses due to one of me chapter 30

Deuteronomy chapter 4 Moses says the following Verse 7

For what other great nation has a God so near it as the Lord our God is whenever we call to him

And what other great nation has laws and commandments that I am setting before you today?

Let's ask ourselves in history. When did those Arabs? Become close to the one true the true

God of Abraham and follow his commandments That was with the coming of Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him historically speaking another

Indication that Muhammad peace be upon his mission is a true mission is the fact that he fulfilled a promise

God made to Abraham in Genesis chapter 15 On the day the

Lord made a covenant with Abraham and said to your descendants I give this land from the river

Nile in Egypt to the river Euphrates Ask yourself who's had this land for over a thousand years now and who took the land of Palestine That God promised to Abraham just like Moses Moses his successors did in his time

Prophet Muhammad peace be upon his followers the Muslim nation The next prophecy

I'd like to speak about is Deuteronomy chapter 18 verse number 15 to 18 Where God says to the

Israelites, I will raise them up a prophet like you from among their kinsmen I will put my words into his mouth.

He shall tell them all I command him Now what was it that made

Moses so unique compared to other prophets Well, the thing is Moses was the originator of his nation he brought them a law brought them from the bonds of slavery and hammered them into a nation just like Reverend James O'Dowd says in the

Collins James Dictionary of the Bible on page 402 This is what he says as a statesman a lawgiver

Moses is the creator of the Jewish people he found a loose conglomeration of Semitic people none of whom have ever been anything but a slave and whose ideas of a religion were a complete confusion he let them out and he hammered them into a nation where the law and national pride and a

Compelling sense of being chosen by a particular God who was supreme The only man in history who can be compared to him is

Muhammad Also in the weekly news magazine time dated

July 15 1974 they were looking for history's greatest leaders and they gave certain criteria

But towards the end of it This is what they have to say Perhaps the greatest leader of all times was

Muhammad who combined all three functions to a lesser degree Moses did the same now we can all find theological similarities

One was born at the age of 40 etc But historically speaking what we know of what

Moses achieved Muhammad peace be upon him achieved and nobody did it like they did them too

Also the encyclopedia of religion under Moses writes there's much in the life of Muhammad that is implicitly reminiscent of the

Moses tradition and Finally the Quran says in surah 73 ayah number 10

Verily we have sent you a messenger even as we sent a messenger to Pharaoh and we know who was sent to Pharaoh Now what do terms like kinsmen and brethren mean?

Well, the Hebrew word is ah and as you can see it means brother brother the same parents half -brother relative kinship

According to Genesis chapter 17 verse number 5 God promised Abraham that he will be a father of many nations

Ishmaelites Israelites either mites if these are all the descendants of Abraham These nations are brethren of one another.

In fact in Genesis chapter 16 It says that Ishmael shall dwell dwell among these kinsmen who are his kinsmen the other sons of Abraham we also see a similar thing in Deuteronomy chapter 2 and Chapter 23 where the

Edomites are called the brethren of the Israelites Thus according to the rules of kinship

Muhammad peace be upon him being a direct descendant of Ishmael Qualifies him as a brethren of the

Israelites. I Will put my words in his mouth Now every prophet speaks the words that God tells him but Muhammad peace be upon him fulfills this the most literally

Word for word his revelation is the words of God's is not in his own words verbatim That is something that is quite unique to Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him

And he shall speak all that I commanded Muhammad peace be upon him spoke everything God commanded him and completed his mission

Successfully as soon as five I number three mentions this day have I perfected your religion for you?

Completed my favor upon you and chosen for you Islam as your religion The next few verses give the acid test of a true prophet

Muhammad peace be upon him made many prophecies and if we have a time to Q &A, maybe somebody can ask me

Now this prophet has to be like Moses, but according to Deuteronomy chapter 30 34 verse number 10 it reads like this in the

Masoretic text Never again has there arisen in Israel a prophet like Moses whom the

Lord knew face to face and the Septuagint it reads And there arose no more in Israel a prophet like Moses and in the

Samaritan text It reads and there shall never arise in Israel a prophet like Moses whom the

Lord has spoken to Due to Deuteronomy chapter 34 many people who do not believe in the supernatural believe that somebody else must have wrote this

But if you read the context of it It looks like God's showing Moses a vision of the future the fact he's gonna die at the age of 120 and no one knows

He was buried from this day and in this very prophecy God Inspires him to say these words and there has arisen in Israel.

No prophet like Moses whom the Lord knew face to face The Qomash commentary which

I have underneath that projector reads in the following way on page 187

The sages note the Torah statement here that in Israel there would never be a prophet like Moses Implies that among the non -jewish nations

There could be such a prophet and just in case people are thinking that Judaism has never recognized

Gentile prophets classically They have many times but the only contention was no we had

Moses for us and forget whoever else comes So the question I'd like to ask

Dr. White for now if you can write it and write this down The prophet has to be like Moses But Deuteronomy chapter 34 10 shows that no prophet in Israel can ever be like Moses So does this not rule out every prophet including

Jesus who was an Israelite? Also, this prophet shall speak all that God commands him But Jesus said in John chapter 16 that I have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now

Which means Jesus did not speak all that God commanded and left it for somebody else According to the book of 1st

Maccabees chapter 4 and chapter 14 as Raymond Brown writes in these commentary on page 49

There was an expectation of a prophet who will solve legal issues like Moses and the

Essenes are told to cling to the Torah Until such a prophet comes so even at the time of Maccabees There was an expectation of the same prophet now

Moses he brought criminal law. He brought a new law. He enforced the law Muhammad peace be upon him did the same thing civil and criminal cases both dealt with But whereas Jesus on the other hand said my kingdom is not of this world

Why because he was not a prophet like Moses. He is more spiritual prophet like John the

Baptist, etc He did not come to enforce the law. He was not a temporal prophet and in the story of the adulterous woman

In fact, he said that very thing He did not enforce the law where he says he without sin should pass the first only did not enforce the law like Moses Also when it comes to legal issues

Moses dealt with legal issues Muhammad peace be upon him dealt with legal issues but in Luke chapter 12

It reads like this someone in the crowd said to him to Jesus tell my brother to divide the inheritance with me

Jesus replied man who made me a judge or arbiter over you Now when it comes to the

Dead Sea Scrolls We see they were waiting for three separate figures a priestly Messiah a temporal Messiah and a prophet like Moses Establishing that these

Jews thought of the prophet like Moses as a separate person from the Messiah When you move on to the

New Testament You find in John chapter 1 verse number 19 to 25 that John the

Baptist was asked three questions. Is he Elijah? Is he the Messiah or is he the prophet

Christians claim John is the spirit of Elijah. We know Jesus is the Christ So who is the prophet?

Once again is showing that the Jews understood these two to be two separate figures that the

Jews were expecting many things and Some of it this textual evidence for them being correct and some of it.

There's no basis for it And we will see whether they were correct whether the Messiah and the prophet like Moses are two separate figures

In John chapter 7 verse number 40 to 52. We hear here people debating over who

Jesus is Now were they debating whether he was God whether he was man whether he was the son of man son of God the

Trinity No, they were debating whether he was the prophet like Moses or the Messiah In fact, if you go up to verse 52

The rabbi the Pharisees mentioned that looking to the scripture and you know That their prophet does not come from Galilee in many of the

Bibles It says our prophet base actually their prophet according to the oldest copyright our prophet wouldn't make sense since Jonah came from there from Galilee so the

Messiah supposed to come from Bethlehem, but the prophet like Moses not supposed to be a Galilean and Jesus was a

Galilean Point number three Jesus spoke about somebody to come after him to paraclete in first John Jesus is called a comforter in John 14 verse number 16

Jesus says the following and I will ask the father and he will give you another comforter to be with you forever the spirit of Jude now

Jesus is a comforter and he's telling you another comforter is going to come with a Greek word alos, which means like him

Now many Christians will say that all Jesus was divine. So this next comforter will be divine like him

But in my humble opinion all the articles I've read all the dialogues

I've seen I haven't yet to see a Christian actually prove that Jesus is God So until they can do that We should stick with the facts that Christians don't even deny

Jesus was a man anyone deny that Jesus was a prophet anyone deny that So until they can be proven.

Otherwise the comforter will be a man and a prophet like Jesus What does the word paraclete mean comforter?

Advocates spokesperson mediator helper and solar one who is called alongside. Are these not the attributes of a prophet?

Also, Jesus says nevertheless I tell you the truth it is expedient for you that I go away

For if I go not away that paraclete will not come to you, but if I depart

I will send him to you But according to the

New Testament Like the book of Luke is all the Holy Spirit was already there yet.

Jesus has to leave for the spirit to come for the comforter to come Also, there's indications that this comforter is actually the prophet like Moses because in John chapter 16 it reads

He will not speak on his own authority He will only speak what he hears and he will tell you what is yet to come

Does that not sound like Deuteronomy? I will put my words in his mouth and he shall speak all that I command him in fact

We know the prophet like Moses is supposed to foretell the future because that's why the test of prophecy was given straight after The verse is speaking about the prophet like Moses Now if this comforter is the

Holy Spirit who's supposed to be a hundred percent God Can you imagine a God who doesn't speak on his own authority a

God who has to be told what to say? Yes, he speak what he hears. I don't know about Jews, but that does not make sense to me at all

Now I've already given you in my opening statement Some of the sources of people in the 7th century who were expecting this prophet and I mentioned the

Jewish rabbi who upon seeing prophet Muhammad peace be upon him recognized him. How did he do this?

How did he know his physical description his name I'll forget his genealogy because I'll probably bring up that point in the rebuttal if I have to lack of time.

I believe you can still find his description right now Psalm Solomon chapter 5 verse number 10 up to 16 and I know

Dr. White loves Psalm Solomon So I brought this as a present for him Verse number 10

The daughters are asked about their beloved the daughters of Jerusalem who classical

Jews Interpreted to represent the believing Israelites at that time They asked about the description of this person and this is how they reply

My beloved is white and red the chief amongst 10 ,000. His head is as the most fine gold

His locks are wavy and black as a Raven in English only thing is the same word for raven can be translated as Arab What a big coincidence

But you get more more descriptions and then you come to verse number 16 the most beautiful.

He's mouth is more sweet Yeah, he is wholly desirable. Of course, we know this person is desirable

Moses foretold him First Maccabees is still expecting him. They see schools are still expecting this popular

Moses New Testament They're still waiting for him 7th century Arabic sources are still waiting for him.

Yes, he is wholly desirable In fact the description matches Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him to a

T My beloved is white and red is narrated in the authentic traditions that Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him

His title was Habibullah beloved of Allah In Hadith number 6 of Shemail Tirmidhi We know that Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him skin color was white with redness in it

He's black. His hair was black and wavy and he was an Arab Chief amongst 10 ,000 you go to the

Biographies of Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him and you know that he's follows were 10 ,000 men When they went to Fatima opening of Mecca when they came to be victorious over the persecutors

Like Moses was victorious over Pharaoh In fact, Deuteronomy chapter 33 even references this but I'll get to that if I get time

The interesting thing about verse number 16 is in Hebrew is like this. He'd go up the game.

We couldn't know Muhammad in Hebrew the suffix plural M is a plural attributes and this could be translated as his mouth is most sweet.

Yeah, he is Muhammad Now before Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him turned up Jews could have seen this as just a description just as a word

But as soon as he turned up a plenty of a prophet and these physical descriptions match the descriptions in this and he was a chief

Amongst 10 ,000 and he was an Arab They would then see that God had left the clue of his name in the actual text and from that time on this should be recognized as a name

This is just a photocopy From triple omens at there's commentary where he shows the word desirable

Muhammadine the rise from the root on same as the Arabic for my word Now a lot of Muslims normally stop there

But this this particular passage and song of songs actually finishes in chapter 6 verse number 3

Where after giving the description the daughters of Jerusalem are asked this most beautiful of women

Where has your lover gone? Tell us which way your lover went so that we may help you find him

My lover has gone to his garden there you apply where the balsam trees grow That's quite interesting

That this person being described a location is given about it just one second, please

It just turns out the the balsam tree is a very famous product of Mecca is that another coincidence is this how they knew he's

Where abouts his location? In fact, I've got a citation from the Catholic Encyclopedia Which mentioned among the true balsams are the bottom of Gilead or Mecca which is cultivated in Arabia Then balsam was called by two names bomb of Gilead bomb of Mecca Mecca in the

Department of Land of Israel studies in archaeology. We see that in English it is called by several names balsam of Mecca balsam of Gilead and Also from the

Jewish Encyclopedia I have a citation from Josephus who relates that according to popular belief

Queen Sheba brought the root from Arabia to King Solomon as a gift so So we see that there was an expectation of a prophet in the 7th century

That they knew his description. Some of them knew his whereabouts while others were a bit fuzzy around the edges

I've shown that Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him for full promises to Ishmael that he was very similar in his mission to Prophet Moses that The person being spoken about to come after Jesus the comforter

It doesn't seem to be fit a hundred percent God when he has to be told what to say and he doesn't speak on his own authority that sounds like the

Prophet like Moses and The description can still be found in song of Solomon's chapter 5 verse number 10 onwards and a reference to the location

It's Mecca Now this might be the biggest coincidence on earth you tell me but I don't think anybody here believes

God inspired anything by coincidence So you don't have to decide. I don't think this is a desperate case for Muslims to make

I do not believe I've taken anything out of context, but that the way is Welcome to give you thoughts.

So that's what I've got at the moment I'll leave at that. Thank you very much

I'm gonna plug it Okay, thank you for that both

Zakir We will now move to the second presentation with James Wise before 30 minutes

Well, thank you very much and good evening. Thank you very much for having us here this evening despite testing our fitness

In climbing these stairs Only the fifth survived. So congratulations to you

I think it is a very very good thing that we are here this evening in light of what's going on in the world in many nations

We are here. We disagree. We do not believe the same things and we're going to say things that are going to contradict whether people believe and we believe that that's

Proper and appropriate because we believe that God exists and if God exists and his truth exists

His truth therefore can be examined and there is no reason for violence. There is no reason for disrespect

We can disagree and we can disagree with respect for one another and so I thank you for being here

And I thank you that this is taking place in the East London Mosque I think

I think if we could keep doing this more often and in more places It might have a real beneficial effect for for everybody.

So I'm very glad to be with you this evening now this particular subject Has already been very well presented to you

By Zucker, I appreciate the presentation that he gave to you and we will be looking at a number of the same texts

There are a couple items that he raised that I'll get to in my rebuttal But most of what he addressed

I will talk about in my opening presentation Why well because there's only a certain number of verses that Muslims have ever pointed to I've listened to all of Jamal Badawi's presentations that he did years ago on this particular subject.

I read a number of Books on the subject including Muhammad in the world scriptures and so on and so forth

And so there's only a certain number of references to look at and so we're gonna look at them And we're gonna look at them very very carefully

This evening we've already heard surah 7 157 read and you're hearing those who follow the

Apostle the unlettered prophet whom they find Not whom other people find but whom they find mentioned in their own scriptures in the

Torah and in the Angeal so we need to find this unlettered prophet and one of the hadith actually presents a story of an encounter with a

Jewish man and his son and The Jewish son was dying And he was asked do you see

Muhammad in your scriptures and the man said? No, the the father said no we do not but the son said yes, we do and Muhammad ordered that the

Prayers be said for that young man when he died. He was very sickly and he was he was dying And so the idea is that a young Jewish boy would have such a clear revelation

Even in obviously for him just the Torah that he could recognize who Muhammad was

The question is that any of the texts we look at this evening lead us to that conclusion That's what we need to look at.

That's what we need to try to understand. Oops. I went past one there. Let's start with one of the texts that was presented and that is the discussion of the parakletos the

Paraclete in John 14 through 16 many Islamic apologists assert the text of John's gospel

Now this was not asserted by the soccer this evening at least not directly I'll be interested in seeing if he if he would agree with this

But it's very common to say that the text of John's gospel has been corrupted So the current reading parakletos is supposed to be another term normally periklutos, which means highly exalted

There is of course no evidence of such an alteration in the manuscript evidence of the

New Testament whatsoever, but the question is Can we read into John 14 through 15 and read the text fairly and come up with Muhammad It is particularly problematic for Muslims to attempt to allege textual corruption in John For it is the earliest attested book in the

New Testament This is true whether one tries to allege textual corruption or some kind of theoretical Compilation of the text at some later time that happens to be manuscript p52 there.

It's the earliest manuscript We have in the New Testament. It happens to be of John chapter 18, which is rather intriguing There is no question my friends as to the identity of the comforter in the gospel of John There is a consistent theme identifying the comforter as the

Holy Spirit the one who will take Jesus place When he ascends back to the father not 600 years later

But when he ascends back to the father though The majority information about the comforter is found in John 14 through 16 elsewhere in John the

Spirit plays a very vital role Now the gospel witness the paraclete is clear.

John 13 through 17 is a consistent whole Providing the final ministry of Jesus to his disciples and public ministry ends at the end of John chapter 12

Chapters 13 through 17 are actually taking place in a very short period of time in Jesus's life John 14 through 17 is thoroughly

Trinitarian speaking easily of the divine roles of the Father the Son and the Spirit in the divine economy of salvation

After encouraging prayer to himself in John chapter 14 verse 14 But after his ascension the father says if you ask me anything in my name,

I will do it Jesus speaks of another comforter of the same kind as himself the

Greek language specifically uses the word that would refer to the same kind of Comforter the paraclete will be with believers

Forever just for a certain number of years, but will be with believers forever according to John 14 16

The world cannot receive the paraclete because it cannot see him or know him.

Did the world see Muhammad? Well, of course How could you be a companion you had to have got to been alive during the end of scene?

They saw him did the world know him? Of course You see this comforter this paraclete is one that the world does not know or see

Because he is a spiritual being that is only known to believers. He is called the spirit of truth in John 14 17 and he dwells with and in Believers not his words not his teachings.

He himself dwells within Believers Muhammad does not dwell within anyone that would be a

Tremendous abuse of the teaching of the Quran in regards to who Muhammad is The paraclete is called the

Holy Spirit in John 14 26 The paraclete teaches all things and brings to remembrance what

Jesus said now would just simply ask you a question Is that what Muhammad did? There are very few words of Jesus recorded in the

Quran His name is mentioned only 25 times and the words of Jesus in the Quran give us absolutely nothing new

Whatsoever and they do not reflect Jesus's own teaching found in the New Testament at all

So, how is it if the paraclete teaches all things and brings to remembrance what Jesus said? What did

Muhammad remind us of Jesus's teachings that we didn't already know? And in fact, are there not a lot of Jesus's teachings in the

New Testament that the Quran knows nothing about at all? that would preclude the

Muhammad being the paraclete paraclete proceeds from the father does that is a that is a word of divinity

To proceed from the father no mere human being proceeds from the father So the question I have for you is does

Muhammad proceed from the father? Did he ever make that kind of claim for himself? If not, he's not the paraclete

He can't be because Jesus taught the paraclete proceeds from the father The paraclete testifies of Jesus Now, how did

Muhammad testify of Jesus? Well, he was a mere prophet But this is the Gospel of John. This is the

Gospel of John that starts with He is

God He has existed from eternity and it ends with Thomas doing what?

Saying to Jesus my Lord and my God So if the paraclete testifies of Jesus Then how did

Muhammad testify of Jesus? The paraclete is sent by Jesus with Muhammad sent by Jesus who sends prophets

Allah sends prophets, but the paraclete is sent by Jesus So if Muhammad's a paraclete then

Jesus becomes God The paraclete convicts the world of sin righteousness and judgment

Now you could say well the paraclete's teachings do that But the text is it's the paraclete himself

Christians believe it's the Holy Spirit of God that brings conviction of sin And that's a personal thing and that happens whether you've ever read the

Bible or not The Holy Spirit of God is capable of doing those things That's because the Holy Spirit is a divine person who has eternally existed

The paraclete guides the disciples into all truth the disciples not someone 600 years later

But the disciples in all truth the whole thing the whole purpose here is that Jesus is saying to the disciples

I'm not gonna leave you alone. I Am going to send to come to be with you Not people 600 years down the road the paraclete does not speak in his own authority

But reveals what is to come now Zachary said well, how can that be God? Each of the divine persons has chosen to take a different role in the salvation of economy and they do so Willfully and freely and what this means is could any mere creature ever say that they

Perfectly do what God has assigned them to do even Muhammad had to be told his sins were forgiven, right? But the paraclete has no sins to be forgiven.

The paraclete glorifies Jesus I don't believe it's saying Jesus a is a mere prophet who does not even know what's in the heart of God when

Jesus himself Said in Matthew 11 27 that he did is glorifying Jesus. Therefore Muhammad cannot be the paraclete

Hence when the text is allowed to speak for itself and context is allowed to stand the identity of the paraclete us is easily determined There is no historical contextual linguistic textual critical or theological reason

Defining the paraclete a reference to Muhammad and the context itself precludes any such application

So what's the next big text that has been used historically when Muslims have sought to fulfill?

Sir a 7 1 57 or 61 6 it is Deuteronomy chapter 18 and we've already heard it read in your in your hair

The key to correctly handling Deuteronomy chapter 18 verses 15 through 19 is the phrase from amongst your brethren

It appears in verse 2 they shall have no inheritance among their brothers

The Lord Yahweh is their inheritance as he promised them

Now you you saw what what ah or ah he means in Hebrew It can have a wide variety of meanings.

Its primary meaning is brother But the context of a term is always what determines how the term is being used and what its meaning is.

And so This text Deuteronomy 18 2 says this is concerning the Levites and clearly

Among their brothers means among the twelve tribes of Israel as verse 5 makes plain

For Yahweh your God has chosen him out of all your tribes To stand and minister in the name of the

Lord. So who are the brothers in Deuteronomy 18 the twelve tribes of Israel that is the context of this particular text

And so clearly from among your brothers and out of all your tribes refers to the same thing

Israelites not anyone outside the specific twelve tribes of Israel Compare the same usage in the preceding chapter and in the preceding chapter

You notice in Deuteronomy 17 15 you may indeed set a king over you whom

Yahweh your God will choose One from among your brothers you shall set as king over you

You may not put a foreigner over you who is not your brother What's the plain meaning of the text that brother in Deuteronomy 17 and 18 means an

Israelite a Jewish person not a foreigner not someone from another nation.

It is from the people of Israel So when we come to the key text the context of Deuteronomy 17 and 18 plainly indicates that from among your brothers equals

Israelites Not foreigners not Ishmaelites not Edomites Etc.

And etc So Deuteronomy 18 15 says Yahweh your

God will raise up for you a prophet like me From among you from your brothers it is to him.

You shall listen notice what this prophets all about Notice what this prophets all about because soccer was talking about laws and rule and so on and so forth

What is it that makes this prophet like Moses? You listen to him

Now before reading the rest, is there anything in the context that would cause us to look to the Arabs For fulfillment of this verse was there anything in that context none?

Nothing whatsoever Deuteronomy 18 18 is I will raise up a prophet from among their countrymen like you

And I will put my words in his mouth and he shall speak to them all that I command him

So what is the similarity the giving of divine? Revelation not being a king not being a warrior not leading and giving laws or anything like that It is the fact that he will give revelation like Moses did in a way that no one since Moses ever did and Whoever will not listen to my words that he shall speak in my name.

I myself will require it of him now There is a fulfillment and Zucker didn't mention this.

I'll be interested in how he explains this. There is a fulfillment in the book of Acts Acts chapter 3

Peter preaching says Moses said the Lord God will raise up for you a prophet like me from your brothers You shall listen to him or whatever

He tells you and it shall be that every soul who does not listen that prophet shall be destroyed from the people and all the prophets

Who have spoken from Samuel and those who came after him also Proclaimed these days

And what was he talking about the days of fulfillment in the Messiah? Jesus Christ the

New Testament makes that direct application at that particular point now

Jesus did exactly what that prophecy said Look at these texts for example in John 14 24

Which you have to accept as being an accurate text because we just had it being used to try to prove that the

Parakletos was Mohammed So in John 14 24 He who does not love me does not keep my words and the word which you hear is not mine

But the father's who sent me Jesus says his words are divine words They come from the father himself

They are not merely the thoughts of men. They are divine words Isn't that exactly what

Deuteronomy 18 was saying? And so Jesus says in John 8 28 So Jesus said when you lift up the

Son of Man, then you will know that a go I need I am Don't have time this evening, but I can demonstrate that's come straight out of the

Old Testament It's an identification of Yahweh himself and Isaiah 43 10 and numerous other texts

And I do nothing on my own initiative, but I speak these things as the father taught me

Jesus perfectly reveals the father No mere human being could ever make that claim and So here in the very same gospel that we've already heard cited

Jesus gives clear evidence that he fulfills what Deuteronomy chapter 18 was actually talking about he is the fulfillment of That prophet that was promised and those who follow

Moses will follow the prophecies See Jesus as the Messiah and hear what he has to say and that is the important thing that we would look at this evening now

I was Surprised a little bit but very interested that soccer went for the song of song

I said it was a gift to me. So I very much appreciate gifts. They're great things In fact,

I'm gonna go ahead and right now I would like to give a gift So he said he didn't have it

So I carried across the pond for him the gift for soccer my book on the Forgotten Trinity, there you go

All right Right next to Bart Ehrman. Yes We'll be talking about him

Wednesday night anyways, not you and I but The reason

I I was a little bit surprised is that I I really think of all the arguments that this one is by far the weakest and Especially if you know more than one foreign language,

I think you will recognize That it is by far the weakest argument. His mouth is full of sweetness and he is wholly desirable

This is my beloved and this is my friend O daughter's Jerusalem. This is Solomon's wife extolling the the handsome

King Solomon that she's going to be going to be married and The Song of Solomon is a beautiful celebration of human love and You have in this text two

Hebrew terms That describe him as being full of sweetness and wholly desirable and if you look at them in the

Hebrew they rhyme with one This is poetry. This is poetry and So you're taking an adjective?

From a different language in Poetry in love poetry and saying ah

Little Jewish boys would recognize that this is about an Arab prophet 600 years after Christ Now think with me just for a moment what that requires us to believe

Here we have an argument based upon an adjective not even a proper name The context does have anything to do with Arabia.

Well soccer actually said there's balsam mention. Do you notice the next line? It's talking about by the way his garden and We know that Solomon had all sorts of things brought from all over the

Mideast for the building of the temple in his palace He brought for example trees from Lebanon.

Does that mean the prophet comes from Lebanon? The next line in the Song of Solomon talks about lilies is

Mecca known for lilies. I Don't think so. So you see once you start trying to make these arguments, where do you stop?

Couldn't we couldn't we do find where lilies are plentiful and say ah the prophet must come from there or find anything in the

Song of Solomon now that's connected to him and we can go east -west north -south We could go to Baltimore and find a way of connecting.

We really could This kind this is not exegesis. This is eisegesis. It's not reading out of the text

It's meaning this is reading into the text meaning that was never intended to have to say this is a stretch is a major Understatement What is more linguistic parallels based upon similar sounds are notoriously worthless

Unless there is a contextual reason to turn an adjective into something more relevant such arguments should be rejected now

Maka Madin Is this is the only place it's used in your old Testament So if that's the name of Muhammad then in first Kings 26 is

Muhammad taken away from a house If it's the same term

Consistency would say so is a Muhammad destroyed by fire in second Chronicles 36 19 Same term if you're going to be consistent if this is where people that this is seeing

Muhammad in their text Then Muhammad's burned by fire in second Chronicles 36 19 did Muhammad become a ruler that Isaiah 64 10

Now you would never ever make connection there and yet. It's the exact same term

Earlier soccer said that I said I've never met a consistent Muslim. I never said that I said I've never met a consistent Muslim apologists

There's a difference There's a difference Because I truly do believe that you have to use a different standard in examining my scriptures

Then you do an examining your own that's the primary issue that I raised there And I'm not sure that's gonna come up this evening.

It might if it does that's great. Thank you very much I didn't need the musical help, but it's okay So I really believe that I have the best argument however right now here here comes the end of this one is

Zachar Hussein in the Old Testament See it's on the screen exactly didn't look up there, but but I've even got

I've even got a whole screen just for you the Hebrew root the car Can mean a male

Or it can mean remember Remembrance or memory remember try literal roots Can sometimes have very interesting meanings especially in Semitic languages?

And you know that if you know Arabic and certainly true if you know Hebrew so The question that I would have is can we find soccer

Hussein in the Old Testament well? What would soccer say to me as a Christian? He would say that I need to remember

That there is only one God isn't that what what is the the constant refrain of the

Quran to the other angel and to the other people Say on three there is only one

God Allah right is not what the Quran says Muslim is that what it says all right? so Look at what the

Old Testament says Next is 2313 now considering everything which I have said to you be on your guard and do not mention

Zakar the name of other gods nor let them be heard from your mouth, so here. We have a man Reminding me of what that text says is it not a clear fulfillment soccer

Hussein is in the Old Testament You see I can take almost any of your names

Especially those who are Muslims that would have a try a little root in your name And I can find you in the Old Testament. It's easy to do

What's hard to do is to come up with prophecies like Isaiah 53 or Psalm? 122 that have specific fulfillments at a specific time and could not be fulfilled by anyone else at any other time

That's what you really need to be looking for and that's what we don't find especially when we look at this now

John 7 52 was mentioned They answered him you are not also from Galilee are you search and see that no prophet arises out of Galilee now by the way?

This is an errant assertion made by the Judeans It is not a biblical principle that precludes Jesus from being the prophet

There are a number of Old Testament prophets that arose out of Galilee What is called

Galilee in that day? This does not preclude Jesus from being the prophet any more than nothing good comes out of Nazareth would be relevant

The Jews said nothing good comes out of Nazareth. Would you is good? Yes, did he come out of Nazareth? Yes, therefore

Must be a contradiction in the Bible. No, it just means that the people who said this were in error in what they said

So there's no reason to take it in that way at all Now interesting enough and thankfully as the car didn't bring us up this evening

See I had the Hebrew going there and Jamal Badawi Oh, well, that's interesting.

There's a Jamal Badawi. Jamal Badawi was speaking from my computer. Isn't that fascinating? He has even gone so far as to apply

Isaiah 9 6 to Muhammad And notice what it says for a child will be born to us

The Sun will be given to us and the government will rest on his shoulders and his name will be called wonderful counselor mighty God eternal father prince of peace

Now when he made the application he didn't explain mighty God He just skipped over that and made the application

But that is how far this has been taken by certain individuals and I'm glad that that did not happen this evening at all

Then we have the anything south of Jerusalem argument Islamic writers have presented a large variety of arguments based upon place names generally south of Jerusalem like Quran or team and or Becca Any location south of Jerusalem becomes vitally important and connected to Muhammad because well he came from the south of that area

The problem with these arguments that they do not point to any one individual but could be applied to anyone Sorry about the title from a nation south of Israel do the references to lands north or east of Israel Likewise to man we go looking for a prophet from amongst them to again consistency would say no that is not the case

Compare these incredibly vague references which are normally nothing more than references to a direction Not a prophet with the prophecies of the coming and ministry of the

Messiah Jesus found Isaiah 53 Psalm 22 and other vitally important texts like that so According to the

Halal econ translation now, this is you may disagree with this application But Holly Khan made it so I will

I will respond to it sir, a 1094 says so if you

Oh Muhammad are in doubt concerning that which we have revealed unto you and then notice the Halal econ Commentary which she says he drives from the they drive me

Ie that your name is written in the Torah and the Angeal Then ask those who are reading the book the tarot in the

Angeal before you Verily the truth has come to you from your Lord. So be not of those who doubted sir a 1094 now if that rendering is accurate then the

Quran Says to Muhammad if you have a doubt that your name is found In the

Torah and the Angeal then ask those who have been reading those scriptures before you well

That's exactly What you're doing this evening? You're asking those who have been reading those scriptures before you and You had some references given to you.

I would ask I Would ask my esteemed opponent this evening Can you show me where the

New Testament writers said? There's a prophet that coming or maybe the apostolic fathers maybe maybe

Clemens or Ignatius maybe into the end the second century Irenaeus a

Tertullian origin maybe Athanasius Augustine the great writers that that we have entire volumes of their writings

Where do they say we as Christians? We're looking for a prophet from Arabia or a prophet who has the sign of prophethood between his shoulder blades

There's volumes of their writings And not a word not a whisper anywhere in them not looking for a prophet and there's a reason for that He was chapter one says

God after he spoke one of the fathers and the prophets in many portions in many ways In these last days has spoken to us in his son

Who the appointed heir of all things through them also he made the world and he is the radiance of his glory in the exact Representation of his nature and upholds all things by the word of his power when he had made purification for sins

He sat down at the right hand of the majesty on high. This book is written before the destruction of Jerusalem at 80 70

These are the words of the original followers of Jesus Are they looking for another prophet?

No, God spoke in the past and prophets now he spoke unto us by his son not a son by some woman

Son who is divine the radiance of glory the exact representation of his nature

He upholds all things by the word of his power. That is the primitive Christian belief Why would they be looking for a prophet from Arabia when they have

Jesus? That is the question we have to ask so The Quran claims the

Torah in the Angeal mentioned Muhammad we already heard surah 61 6 from The previous presentation and remember

Jesus the son of Mary said Oh children of Israel I am the apostle the law sent to you confirming the law which came before me and giving glad tidings an apostle to come after me

Whose name shall be Ahmad? That's what the Quran says The call to remember

Something Jesus simply never said remember it says remember that means it assumes the people had heard this before Where?

Where's the evidence? Remember Jesus never said anything about that. Where's the evidence

Jesus said anything about Ahmed? It's not it's not in John 14. We already saw that Something is simply untrue

Demonstrates a clear and evident error in the text of the Quran Jesus never said a word about Muhammad did not prophesy about him and the self -serving claim found the text of the

Quran is simply Untrue because it's a part of the argumentation of prophethood and that is a tremendous issue

Notice it says those who follow the Apostle the unlettered prophet whom they find mentioned their own scriptures in the law in the gospel

We do not find Muhammad mentioned in either the law or the gospel this text indicates

I Will stop at that point

I'll sit the mic to Zaki for the first rebuttals, which would be 20 minutes. So Zaki Okay, can everybody hear me properly

All right, then I'm gonna be a little bit all over the place because I haven't invested in the iPad yet Now I just like like to reiterate my opening statement

Remember I mentioned that there were Jews and Christians in the time of Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him Who were expecting a prophet though?

Some of them were not sure exactly where this prophet was going to come from Some of them seen the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him and they recognized him and I also mentioned that the

Quran says in 7157 that Those who find the unlettered or Gentile prophet in their scriptures the

Torah and the gospel Now I mentioned Point number one. There was an expectation of something to happen among the descendants of Ishmael the

Ishmaelites a great nation Was promised by God So far dr. White hasn't touched on it because this is his opening statement

So I'll leave that for a bit But just bear that in your minds Then I mentioned that there was an expectation of a prophet when

Moses spoke of somebody to come like him And at the time of Maccabees the waiting for him at the time of the

Dead Sea Scrolls They're waiting for him at the time of the New Testament the waiting for him and in our sources They're still waiting for this prophet

Then I mentioned Jesus spoke about somebody to come after him Who does not sound like a hundred percent

God which I'll get into and then I mentioned that Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him Description and location can still be found in song of Solomon Okay now the first point

I'd like to make is When the Quran says they will find

Which people are the book is it speaking to? Because we know there were many people who recognized

Prophet man peace be upon him at that time when they were looking at their scriptures when the Quran speaks to the people of the

Book, it's not talking to the Christian who works in the barber shop and goes to the church every funeral

Ain't talking to the Jew who only calls to the synagogue once in a lifetime

It's talking about those learning in the scriptures a surah 13 I number 43 mentions the disbelievers say no messenger

Are you or Muhammad say and not for the witness between us is you and Allah and those who have knowledge of the scriptures?

Now, let me get to the first point Dr. James White mentioned that the

Quran says in surah 61 6 that Jesus spoke of somebody to come after him whose name shall be

Ahmed and Dr. James White said where are these words? That and Jesus said but dr.

White I challenge you to show me anywhere in the text where it says it's in the Protestant Canon We know historically

Christians had many Gospels. In fact, I've got Bart Ehrman's book in front of me and dr James White respects him

I'm sure who mentions that different churches have many different Gospels When the Quran tells them to remember the

Quran is simply reminding them of things they forgot Why did they forget it because they chose the cannons that suited them?

That's why and if dr. White thinks that the Quran is disproven because he cannot find these exact words of Jesus in The New Testament, maybe dr.

White and tell us why he's not consistent with the New Testament Why don't we tell us where's Matthew's words that he will be called a

Nazarene? So that's my first challenge is dr White show me the sentence in the Old Testament that he will be called a

Nazarene. Remember dr. White I told you my opening statement you speak of consistency You better be consistent tonight because every argument you say will be forced on Jesus's prophecies.

I've done my homework I've been watching the debates and you were actually quite predictable. I knew you're gonna find my name in the text

But can you find a passage that's got my description and mentions Birmingham to dr. White? Can you also show me the same passage where Jews were interpreting this as a prophet to come

I've got quotes that show that Jews seen this as a future person Then dr.

White mentions that all of these Trinitarian things about the comforter he will be in the disciples

Let me just educate the Christians on a little story of a man named Nicodemus Once Jesus said to him to enter the kingdom of God, you must be born again

But what did he say should we go back in our mother's womb? What did Jesus say to him? You're a teacher of Israel.

You do not know these things. Jesus was speaking figuratively It seems Christians seem to see them as same mistakes when it comes to the paraclete

Did Jesus not say in John chapter 16 verse number 25, I'll spot all these things in figures of speech

Let's get the point number one. Dr. White says The world cannot receive him because they neither sees him nor knows him

First point majority of the world has not received Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him because they neither see him and they do not

Know him. That's why we're here right now to educate people Point number two, if dr. White wants to take the word see as literal then he's gonna be committing an ancient heresy

But it's as dr. White not know a few verses earlier Jesus said to one of his followers he who has seen me has seen the father is

Jesus the father dr. White You can answer that in your next part then dr.

White mentioned that this This comforter will be in you did not Jesus say to his disciples you are in me and I am in you was

Peter inside Jesus's stomach dr. White and Also, not every manuscript agrees with you Dr.

White if you read a new device standard version of the Bible and mentions in footnote that some readings say he shall be among You according to the new international version in the footnote

It says that he is in you not that he shall be in you And so your interpretation of the Holy Spirit being with them and coming inside them afterwards

Falls flat in light of these manuscripts and remember though you claim that you have the earlier Attested manuscript p52 that little parchment that does not mean you actually know how the gospel of John reads exactly page 10 a bottom's book miss quoting

Jesus actually mentions all you have are copies of the copies of the copies and They're all got different readings

And if you don't like Bart Ehrman if he's too liberal for you actually is agnostic I'll call Bruce Metzger who in the preface the new device standard version of Bible actually says that the scholars have got different manuscripts and all they do

Is try their best to find the original reading exactly what the Quran says in pseudo for 157

They follow nothing but conjecture. Nothing is serious. It's all doubts though on the sermons in church

They preach it like they know exactly what the original writer said then Dr.

White mentions that this comforter will be forever, but it's subject to interpretation because Jesus said he's speaking the figures of speech

Then dr. White mentions that Jesus said I will send the comforter and everybody had a bit of a laugh

But dr. White fails to tell everybody how Jesus is gonna send the comforter did not Jesus saying the same speech

I will pray to the father and he will send him. That's how he's gonna send him. Dr. White a Few passages earlier a few chapters earlier.

Did you not say I can on my own self do nothing then? Dr. White mentions that Muslims speak about the paraclete and it's such a trinitarian

Passages in a John 14, but then dr. White fails to mention that the most Unitarian passage in the

New Testament is found in the same speech John chapter 17 verse number three where Jesus calls the father the only true

God No amount of rhetoric is gonna be able to explain that away and you Interpret unclear passages in light of the clear one also the disciples did not see anything

Jesus said in the comforter speeches as him claiming divinity because after Jesus said he has been speaking the figures of speech.

What did the disciples say? Now we know you came from God. They didn't say now we know you are God So I think they knew what

Jesus was saying better than you then Also, even if you find false teachings, we don't expect to go to the previous scriptures and find everything pristine

In fact surah 242 tells the people of the book do not mix truth with falsehood So as far as I see

I'm still gonna repeat my question you tried to say they have different roles these people But can you please explain to everybody here?

What kind of a hundred percent God has to be told what to say? And what kind of God does not speak on his own authority because I don't think people here are gonna fall for all they have

Different roles, please explain it to us because we don't seem to understand Then let's go to song of Solomon Folks I said song of Solomon's gonna be a gift for dr

White do not think I haven't seen dr. Weiss material before everybody was laughing at most dr. Weiss points Oh Muhammad thrown in the fire, etc

Well, dr. White, I challenge you show me one place Anywhere in the

Bible where the word Muhammad in appears it appears uniquely in song of songs chapter 5 number 16

I've got the quotations for the Hebrew None of them read the same or that the white is doing is looking for words that come from the same root word and trying to Say look the same words here, but dr.

White do you not know we can do that with David's name, too Shall I start quoting David's name in Ezekiel 23?

The context will look kind of ridiculous and also another thing to show everybody the song of songs chapter 5 verse number 16 is unique Every other passage that the

Christians claim that Muhammad is found if you translate into a name the sentence doesn't make sense in this one

Passage the sentence still makes sense another coincidence. Dr. White hasn't mentioned anything about the description

I don't think he can refute the fact that the word Raven could be treated as Arab and then dr White mentions all lilies that must refute balsam

But actually is there another coincidence that Genesis chapter 37 that Ishmaelites are carrying balsam

Whoa, then in Psalms 84 Bucca Valley is mentioned Why is it called

Bucca because of balsam trees and what's the name ancient name of Makkah Bucca is

Makkah Valley? Yes, it is Also in this place people do pilgrimage in this Bucca Valley where the balsam trees grow

Psalms 84 Which place is named Bucca is a valley where people do pilgrimage and also causing according to the

Septuagint in Psalms 84 verse number 6. It says here the lawgiver shall give blessings

Who is the lawgiver that came in a valley of Bucca? Maybe dr White can tell us it sure wasn't Jesus and also that corresponds to Deuteronomy chapter 33 where it mentions somebody who's going to come in the land of Quran with 10 ,000 saints and a fiery law in his right hand and you remember song of Solomon chapter 5 chief amongst 10 ,000

When you put it together, I Tell you straight that the prophecies

I've quoted about Prophet Muhammad peace be upon it are much more clearer than the prophecies that Christians point to about Jesus It's much and you like to laugh, but I think you should read

Hosea 11 then Dr. White speaks about the prophet like Moses.

Remember dr White mentioned that all there's a word shall be put in the prophets mouth

Then he quotes passages where Jesus says the father puts words in my mouth But remember what I said in my opening statement

Muhammad peace be upon him fulfilled this Literally God may have inspired Jesus to speak

But did Jesus speak in first person the father's word know the words were his own the Muslims have a saying for that hadith could see

That's our second former inspiration. The Quran is the literal words of God since Muhammad peace be upon him fulfills that more than Jesus Also, you still haven't refuted me because I quoted passages in Deuteronomy where brethren can refer to other tribes

Other than Israel you just simply quoted passages where it refers to the twelve tribes of Israel But the word brethren itself does not limit it to the twelve tribes

It's the context in Deuteronomy chapter 1 when it's talking to the tribe of Levi It's the context that determines as the tribe of Israel and also in Deuteronomy chapter 17

But you have to show us from Deuteronomy chapter 18 verse number 15 that is limited to Israel And in fact on the clearest reading is talking about the

Arabs. How do we know that because God says to the Israelites as a whole not to the tribe of Levi.

I will raise up a prophet Among your brethren he speaks to them in a singular. I've got the

Hebrew word They're spoken of as one person just like in Exodus chapter 4 verse number 22 when

God says Israel is my son Even my firstborn just like the passages in Isaiah where Israel is spoken as one person

So are they in Deuteronomy chapter 18? They're spoken of as one person So is

Israel a brother to himself who are the brethren of Israel if they're spoken of as one person?

It's easy to see the other nations that descend to Abraham Also, I mentioned in my opening statement that Muhammad peace be upon him did the things that Moses did he brought a law?

He turned these people into a proper nation and he reclaimed the lands that were promised to Abraham then dr.

White mentions that oh It's not about law It's not about this and that but remember

I pointed to Deuteronomy chapter 34 that denies a prophet like Israel can Like Moses cannot arise in Israel.

Remember Moses sees the future. He sees his death Why explain to us the Septuagint reading and there rose up not again in Israel a prophet like Moses The Samaritan reading and there shall never arise in Israel a prophet like Moses and also another interesting thing

Dr. White, you know, some of you might think this is funny But think about it clearly is Jesus actually from the brethren of Moses last time

I checked he never had a father So how can you trace his lineage to one of the twelve tribes? This is the exact argumentation that Jews use against you to when they try to claim.

How can Jesus be the son of David? There's no place in the Tanakh where people trace the tribal lineage to the mother that the way so even on that reading

Jesus falls flat so So far, I don't think dr White has mentioned anything then dr

White mentions in the paraclete sayings that verse 26 says if the Holy Spirit but as Gary and birds shows in a new

NIV Commentary not all manuscripts agree with dr White some say spirit a truth and I've already shown for first John that the word spirit can be interpreted as a prophet and remember

He shall not speak on his own authority. Please think about this It's not rocket science God speaks on his own authority if he speaks on anyone's authority.

He's not God common -sense. Also There's a Sivak manuscript that says the spirit and I know what dr

White's response gonna be but I'll advise him that if he does use that response He's gonna bring the New Testament into a problem again.

I've done my research dr. White. So Also, dr. White says that the word Mohammed Dean is an adjective but car adjectives be named.

What's your name? Dr. White? White what's an adjective? So why don't you delete your name?

Dr. White? If a adjective can't be a name more always not even an adjective go to the Strong's concordance It's a masculine noun and a similar word actually appears in Hosea 9 6

Mahmoud and guess what the ancient Jews Christians could the dispute they translated this not for his meaning

But into Greek as Mahmoud They must have thought it was a proper noun so Once again,

I don't think dr. White has actually said anything that makes me battle it. I'm still waiting

Many of the things that dr. White says can actually be sent back to dr White if I wanted to get started on Jesus prophecies because I love reading

Jewish books. They're quite interesting I think a few Christians should read them too. And then dr White says was

Jesus a mere prophet like working like being a prophets like working in Sainsbury's or something a mere prophet

Dr. White, do you not have respect for prophets that you say a mere prophet a prophet is not a mere prophet a prophet

It's a person who speaks on behalf of God You try to use the same tactic on Anthony buzzard and he told you don't say a mere prophet.

We respect our prophets They were the greatest of men and then dr. White says did Muhammad glorify

Jesus and how many sayings do you find the Jesus in? The Quran but the Quran is not about quantity It's about quality the amount of sayings you find about Jesus in the

Quran is enough to know who Jesus was He was a servant of God a spirit from God. He came to confirm the true laws of the

Torah He was a Messiah and he's paved the way for the last and final messenger and then dr White tells us our why weren't the early church fathers expecting a prophet in Arabia?

But they were too busy trying to work out how the Trinity works and trying to choose the cannon dr. White Maybe you can show us some early

Jews before the time of Jesus We're disputing whether God in the flesh is going to come or whether the

Messiah is going to die on the cross for us We know from the New Testament that even then they didn't even know about this. So I do not understand your points plus I've already shown you the sources that there were

Jews and Christians were expecting a prophet in Arabia and Many of them recognized prophet

Muhammad peace be upon him many Christians don't see nowadays because they don't know Hebrew They don't know Aramaic.

They just believe that the King James Translation is the inspired words of God And then dr.

White tells us Yeah, not your head is facts a fact Then dr. White tells us that this was fulfilled and acts though, you know,

Jesus is the prophet but you see the New Testament has a very bad habit of Applying anything they find in the

Old Testament to Jesus is like honestly the fact that Jesus is not the prophet Like Moses is the fact that acts actually misquoted

Moses I've heard of misquoting Jesus, but not misquoting Moses Remember I mentioned that in Deuteronomy God speaks to them in the singular and acts the word

Jew is in the plural Why did they do that? Because when it's in the singular it sounds like the prophets gonna come from the brethren of Israel when it's in the plural

It sounds more likely. I'll come from within them So once again, I don't think any points have been

What's it called anything has been raised so far that actually goes against my case So how much time

I've got left got two and a half minutes two and a half minutes Also, let me just add to what a promise of a great nation is already mentioned that Jews Christians and history mentions that the only time

The Arabs worship the true God only time they follow these commandments only time they became powerful and claimed the lands of Israel Was in the 7th century that's undeniable a great nation was not when there were idol worshipers

Unless I'd a worship and nations are great nation was Persia when they worship fire a great nation according to Yahweh I don't think dr.

White will say yes to that. So Also, what what was the plans for Ishmael's descendants according to the

Quran God was gonna send a messenger from among them reciting the verses That's in surah 9. Also.

God was gonna make sure the pilgrimage to Makkah starts once again Are these prophesied Isaiah 42 talks about a servant of God who's gonna come and when he comes the people of Kedar Synonymous with Arab are gonna rejoice this person's gonna fight the idol worshippers to let me put the shame

Anybody knows the story of Omar a deal. I'm not eating his own. God will know how much shame they had and this person will not

Fail in his mission till he has completed it. He will not die naked on the cross That's not the prophet like Moses and it's kind of funny when

Christians say that Jesus is the prophet like Moses Because straight after the passage of Jeteronomy he talks about false prophets dying

Why would God do that? Talk about a prophet like Moses and then the next verse talking about this prophet dying when

God knew that this prophets gonna die naked on the cross that does not make sense and Also, we got a way to settle this right now

Who is the prophet like Moses the test is given test the prophecy for every prophecy? Dr. White names of Jesus given our name to the moment peace be upon him named and any false

Prophecy that dr. White trust the attempt that moment peace be upon him did I will answer them inshallah and I will bring

False prophecies from the New Testament would come in tree. So I am NOT misquoting nothing out of Scripture.

Thank you very much Well, I must admit that I'm very very disappointed that is called scattergun machine gunning is called throwing everything but the kitchen sink out and We're supposed to be talking about one particular subject

If you all want to hear a discussion of the textual criticism of the New Testament and the textual criticism of the

Quran That's the two debates on Monday night If you want to talk about the doctrine the Trinity we've debated that a number of times we can keep doing that But I can sit here

I think I can talk as fast as occur and I could throw all sorts of stuff at you But you the audience would not be edified and I will not disrespect you in that way

I want to focus on what this debate was about and that is does the Bible if we read it in its context in its original language not can someone come along 600 years later and Pull this text out and pull that out and read stuff into it

Does the Bible predict the coming of an Arabian prophet named Muhammad? And so let's go back and actually look at what the debate is about Zucker said that according to our sources, but then you'll notice later

I asked him could you give us some of the early church fathers? Could you give us some evidence?

outside of sources that come after Muhammad that this was the expectation and what did he do?

He just simply laughed at it and dismissed and said well They were too busy trying to figure out the canon the deity of Christ which of course shows an abysmal ignorance of what they are

Actually saying they talked about all sorts of things not just that and so that's not You would not accept that kind of response from me as Muslims.

And so that's an inappropriate response. That is an admission No, I can't give you any evidence outside of what our sources indicate

I can't give you any confirmation outside of our sources that the Christians were looking for another prophet

Especially in light of the teaching of the New Testament itself That Jesus is the final word from God that God spoke in the old times by prophets

Now in these last days he's spoken unto us By his son that is very important to recognize

Great nation promise in Genesis 12 is fulfilled in the fact that we sit

Thousands of miles away from the events of Jesus's life and as a Christian I bow the knee to him

His kingdom is here. It's in the heart of every single believer in this room That's the great nation

Genesis 15 and Genesis 12 is talking about and by the way Jeremiah 6 22

Specifically uses the term great nation of the pagan Babylonians So much for that particular argument that great nation would have to be used of only a monotheistic group

Group now, we also looked at Deuteronomy chapter 18. I need to reestablish

The context of Deuteronomy chapter 18. He said I just only quoted some texts.

Yeah the context Deuteronomy 17 and 18 which is the text we are talking about specifically limits

The use of ah and ah he to those of the twelve tribes

Zucker did not respond to that. He did not give you anything from that text He went elsewhere the point stands any fair reading of Deuteronomy 17 and 18

Demonstrates that what is being talked about is a Jewish prophet and interestingly enough Zucker proved that for me.

He quoted from John chapter 1 in his opening presentation and in John chapter 1 they asked

John Are you the prophet? What was John was he from Mecca?

No, he was a Jew why were they asking him that because they knew the prophet was a

Jew They weren't asking someone from outside. And so he proves the point for me at that particular point in time

There was a discussion of the Dead Sea Scrolls. The Dead Sea Scrolls contain all sorts of prophetic speculation

There are all sorts of ideas that were prevalent in the days of Jesus Even amongst his own disciples as to what the role of the

Messiah was going to be and most of the time they were wrong In fact, even after his resurrection

It's not and even at even at the Ascension They're wondering now is it time for you to restore the kingdom and they've got these wrong ideas of what the

Messiah is to be When Jesus announces his coming death burial and resurrection It's Peter that takes him aside and says no

Lord may it never be we've heard the Messiah will last forever He will reign forever They didn't understand the suffering servant has to come first Before the exaltation and the power that is his and so there's all sorts of things you can find as to prophetic speculation

Are we supposed to believe that the Jews and Christians again? Remember, what's the Quranic claim that the

Allah Kitab? They're the ones who read in the Torah and the Injil of Muhammad where you're saying that some for example

Mentioned the Sinaitic Syriac manuscript a single manuscript that has a textual variant in it a

Single it's a different language It's not even in Greek how many Muslims in this room would allow me to overthrow the teaching of the

Quran based upon a Translation of the Quran not in Arabic that comes 300 years after Muhammad anybody.

I hope not Now I'd like to get into textual critical stuff He likes throwing this stuff out and he says

I've got my sources He's quoting Bart Ehrman I've debated Bart Ehrman Okay, I can go toe -to -toe with Bart Ehrman on the textual critical stuff

I have the textual critical stuff here. If he wants to talk about textual raise the specific ones

I'll look it up and I'll explain it to you but just simply throwing this out makes no more difference than me saying you can't look at Surah 2 222 because if I'm assured had a different reading than that and there's also a different reading in the

Palimpsest manuscript on a manuscript findings, but therefore the Quran is corrupt You're gonna accept that just off just by just my making that statement.

I hope not. That's not how you do scholarly argumentation You make your case and you make it carefully and fully everything

I just said by the way of Surah 222 is true and I'll demonstrate that on Monday evening

But I'll do it in the proper way. I'll actually show it to you. Okay, that's that's how you do that Song of Solomon Wow Balsam trees means it has to have something to do with Mecca The text says the balsam trees are in his garden in Jerusalem as are the lilies

I Mean, honestly, I I don't I don't understand how much clearer we can make this.

I actually looked up some other references to to balsam in 2nd Samuel 5 23 to 24

David is commanded to when he hears the noise in the top of the of the balsam trees.

He wasn't in Mecca There is ab it is amazing. This is he says well, that's actually a single noun

Must not read Hebrew because it is being used as an intensive Adjective it is described.

It is being used poetically in poetic form with another intensive adjective in Song of Solomon 516 it's describing

Solomon the idea that this has some fulfillment because of balsam trees to someone from Arabia to me is the

Illustration of how far you have to stretch To make this kind of argumentation work.

It simply doesn't work at all. We were told we know historically This is fascinating to me.

We know historically the Christians had many Gospels really Um, which

Gospels are we talking about and if they are the ones that supposedly testify of these things

Then why didn't Zucker make his point from them? Did the Gospel of Thomas prophesy

Muhammad where? Which of the Gnostic Gospels Zucker prophesies Muhammad remember the

Gnostic Gospels are written by the people who thinks the creator this world is an evil God Those would be called coffers and Musharrakeen in your language

So which of these Gospels prophesies the coming of Muhammad and Think about for a moment.

Think about what the Quran says. The Quran says that the people in the days of Muhammad Saw that he was in those

Gospels. Are you telling me that the Allah Linjil the Allah Kitab? That the Jews and the

Christians were using those Gospels in the days of Muhammad. Do you have some evidence of that? and If that's the case, why not prove your case from them if you want to talk about textual variants now

We can start talking about sexual variants because in comparison in the New Testament these alleged Gospels Most of them we only have them in fragmentary form

So you want to go for Gnostic Gospels? I'll be happy to go there I've read them all and they are a mishmash of some of the most silly absurd things you'll ever find

One of them is called the infancy Gospel of Thomas and the infancy

Gospel of Thomas Tells us stories about Jesus when he was a kid You see the

Gnostics just couldn't stand the fact that the canonical Gospels the only Gospels traceable to the first century and to the time

Period in context of Jesus the Gnostic Gospels They couldn't stand the fact those canonical Gospels didn't tell us about what was

Jesus like when he was a kid And so they had to try to dig into these things and they presented

Jesus who struck his friends When they broke the rules of a game dead But so same

Gnostic Gospels that tell us that Jesus spoke from a crib His cradle and the same Gnostic Gospels tell us that Jesus formed little birds and breathed on them and they flew away

Stories that came hundreds of years after Jesus in Gnostic Gospels that are in your Quran Think about that So you want to talk about sources?

We can talk about sources. We can go there. We can do that. I Was challenged tell us dr.

White where does The fact that Jesus is a Nazarene. Where's that found the Old Testament?

Jeremiah chapter, I'm sorry Isaiah chapter 14 verse 19 refers to the rejected branch.

What is branch in Hebrew nuts are If you understand it's amazing here

We have someone arguing that Macha Medina in a poetic section salt and song of Solomon has to do with an

Arabic prophet But you can't see how the rejected branch In Isaiah the same book that makes reference in Isaiah 53 to the suffering of the

Messiah that refers to him as mighty God everlasting father in Isaiah 9 6 Doesn't do the exact same thing and have the ability to make that kind of fulfillment

Isaiah chapter 14 I was asked is Jesus a father. No, Jesus is not the father but what

I know the father I know because Jesus is a perfect representative of him and only he only he

Could be the one who gives a perfect representation of the father That's why Jesus can say he who has seen me has seen the father

No mere human being could ever make that statement without committing blasphemy

No mere human being could ever say that Then we had a Bruce Metzger quote again.

I would be happy. I've got a Bruce Metzger quote in my debate notes for Monday evening I can guarantee you the

Bruce Metzger did not hold Zaka Hussain's view of the New Testament there is absolutely no question of that and What he means in his scholarly works is not what

Zaka Hussain just tried to indicate Is the state of Christian scholarship in regards to the

New Testament? I was asked who sends the paraclete. Well, it's the father and the son Both send the paraclete.

It's a divine action That's been a part of the discussion of the fact that the father and the son together

Send the Spirit and in fact Jesus says in John 14 23 that he makes his abode with us

How by the Spirit Jesus has not left us alone Because the Spirit dwells each one of us who are believers in Jesus Christ.

I'd love to have the time I think it's it's not fair to do it this way, but I have explained

John 17 3 many many times and Have written a book about the subject that I gave to Zaka earlier

I would just simply point out that that very same text first of all, we don't believe that Jesus was an atheist

We believe he was a monotheist. And so how else would he address the father other than the one true God? That is not in any way shape or form precluding him from being sent by the father

From being the divine Son and from saying in the next sentence

Father glorify me With the glory which I had with you before the world was

You tell me a prophet that ever said that You show me a prophet that can say those words and if you can divide

Two sentences up and make an argument from the first sentence and ignore the second you aren't handling the text correctly Let me tell you something.

I want to say to every Muslim in this room. I just finished a book on the Quran I pray to God that I handled your text accurately

Because that's how I show you respect I Simply ask the same return we were told that the prophecies of Muhammad are much clearer than the prophecies of Jesus Did you hear that song of Solomon His wife praising his beauty that's clearer than what we have of Jesus I I'm not gonna read all of this, but I just want you to think for a moment think of balsam wood and Mecca in the song of Solomon and this is twice as clear than what we have here

Eloi Eloi lama sabachthani My God my God, why are you forsaken me?

Far from my deliverance the words of my groaning my God I cry by day and you do not answer and by night I have no rest that you are holy.

Oh you who are enthroned upon the praises of Israel and you our fathers trusted They trusted and you deliver them to you.

They cried out and were delivered in you They trusted we're not disappointed But I am a worm not a man a reproach of men and despised by the people all who see me sneer at me

They separate with the lip. They wag the head saying commit yourself to the Lord. Let him deliver him

Let him rescue him because he delights in him Yet you are he who brought me forth from the womb you made me trust when upon my mother's breasts

Upon you I was cast from birth You have been my God for my mother's womb be not far from me for trouble is near for there is none to help many

Bowls should have surrounded me strong bowls of basher than circling me. They open wide their mouth at me

It's a ravening and roaring lion. I am poured out like water. All my bones are out of joint My heart is like wax and it's melted within me

My strength is dried up like a potsherd and my tongue cleaves to my jaws and you lay me in the dust of death

You're for dogs astronomy a band of evildoers have encompassed me. They pierced my hands and my feet

I count all my bones. They look they stare at me. They divide my garments amongst them and for my clothing

They cast lots if you know the crucifixion

Then you know there is nothing in the Old Testament twice as clear about that on anything

Compare that With Song of Solomon 516 it is clear.

It is strong. I Use the term a mere prophet, you know, why some of you know why?

Anybody here have Yusuf Ali's translation of the Quran? Uh -huh. Look up surahs four and five.

I think it's right around surah 4171 if I recall correctly I'm just gonna have taught me how they didn't look it up That's Yusuf Ali's Terminology when talking about Jesus Isn't that the whole point of saying that Jesus was a mere prophet in comparison to being the

Sun If that's found in Quran translations, why am I being faulted for using that terminology?

I'm using the exact language the Quran wants to make sure that you understand

Jesus wasn't more than a prophet So what turn do we use? Has nothing to do with my disrespecting prophethood,

I would suggest you the greatest way to respect prophethood is To deal with the prophets words in context

That includes Moses and Deuteronomy 8 Isaiah 9 as a attend, etc, etc.

Isaiah 53 and things like that We're talking we were told about a servant in Isaiah 42 and We had an illustration just now of the anything south of Jerusalem argument he mentions

Kadar That's in Arabia Yeah, Isaiah mentions nations north of Israel.

He mentions nations east of Israel There aren't too many nations West, you know, so I got you know, it's

Mediterranean Sea there But I suppose he could come up with the Philistines or something like that if he wanted to go west and south

So if a prophet came from the north with those references to the nations of the north be relevant

If someone who claimed they were a prophet You see you can't read things backwards

The Quran is saying that the people of the book they see these things. No, we don't and No fair contextual reading.

Let me guarantee you something Bart Ehrman doesn't think that the Bible prophesies Muhammad Bruce Metzger doesn't think that it's not because they just haven't looked it requires a historical and exegetical methodology utterly foreign to anything they would reuse and So let's let's focus one more time

The debate tonight is on does the Bible when Muhammad?

recited you believe That on Laylatul Qadr the Quran came down in power

Yes and Then it was revealed to the Prophet over the course of the next number of years as was needed to meet particular individual issues

When the Prophet Muhammad recited surah 7 1 57 surah 61 6

Did those words have a meaning at that time? If they had a meaning at that time then the text of The Torah and the injeel that would be being used at that particular point in time.

We know what it was We know what text of the Gospels they would have had we know what text of the

Torah they would have had So referring to Gnostic Gospels all the rest of stuff red herring

You need to prove That the people reading the book remember surah 1094 go ask them what book would they have been reading?

What what Gospels Matthew Mark Luke and John? Have we found any evidence that any of these texts can in any way shape or form

Direct us not. Can you read something backwards into it? Can any of these texts actually be fairly said?

to demand that we see a fulfillment in Muhammad the answer is unequivocally

No, thank you very much Thank you for that.

That's a very great First bottle section and now we'll go to the second about section which would be 10 minutes each

When you're ready Hello Everyone ready

Okay Once again before I go down the points of dr.

White I'll remind everybody of a few things I mentioned that there were

Jews and Christians in the 7th century who are awaiting a prophet some of them recognize this prophet

Now dr. White says that the I never mentioned Gnostic Gospels. I said historically speaking

We know Christians in the past had many different readings many different Gospels how does dr.

White know which ones the ones in Arabia had at that time many of the Descriptions of Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him are still here

Tell me somebody historically whose skin color was white and red whose hair was black and wavy as an

Arab I remind dr. White and please tell us if the word Raven can be translated as Arab chief amongst 10 ,000

His name is in the text dr. White pronounces in such a way that it sounds like y 'all this can't be Muhammad Let's hear a rabbi

Reciting ask yourself. Why did God put this in the text? I think was a speaker speaker is

Sometimes I'm sure Did you hear that? All right continue.

Anyway, that sounded exactly like Prophet Muhammad peace be upon his name It's actually spelt in exact words that Muhammad peace be upon him will be spelt in Hebrew The letter head is the equivalent to the

Arabic empty -mouthed heart dr. White So your video on ABN was not exactly accurate then dr

White mentions that Isaiah 9 6 and we got all these scriptures of Jesus before I answer that many of the points regarding textual criticism

Etc. Were in response to dr. White. I did not try no red headings. I Mentioned and refuted points that dr.

White mentioned now, let's talk about vague prophecies. This is what William Lane Craig says

Now the problem for the theory in question is that nobody especially a 1st century Jew Reading the story of Jonah and the whale would think that this has anything to do with Jesus burial and resurrection

Similar for Psalm 1610. The point is that no one who did not already have a belief in Jesus resurrection

Would find in these scriptures any impetus to think that Jesus had been raised from the dead in other words

The William Lane Craig is mentioning that many Christians believed in Jesus first and then jumped into the

Old Testament and started misquoting stuff So you're talking about me respecting your scriptures, dr

Why but you expect the Jewish scriptures many of the things you've said to me Jews actually say to you I did not take song of Solomon out of context.

Dr. White keeps saying is talking about Solomon I've got a source that mentions that Jews seen it as a future person.

Also, how can it be talking about Solomon when? According to Jews and according to even

Muslims Solomon was one of the most powerful people in his time yet If this is one of these women, what does this mean making their violence in the city?

The Sentinels find me they beat me They're ruining me. Can you imagine King Solomon the most powerful on earth's wife getting beaten up?

No, there's a lot of stuff that indicated to people. This is talking about a future person Also, dr.

White says That Especially with the disciples that this wasn't talking about somebody 700 years later 600 years later, but then dr.

White says I should take things in context But then Christians go to Isaiah chapter 7 where the word virgin is not even there in the

Hebrew and it's a promise to King Ahaz who died 700 years before Jesus.

So how is Isaiah 7 talking about somebody after Jesus 700 years later? You have to be consistent dr.

White many times But when Jesus said to the Jews at the Sanhedrin, you shall see the Son of Man standing on there

They're standing on the clouds of heaven, but they died 2 ,000 years ago. Dr. White. It was obviously talking about the future

Then dr. White mentions that Deuteronomy 18 limits it to the 12 tribes But as you quote us a text and show us where it limits it to the 12 tribes

I've already shown that Israel was spoken to in the singular So if I say to somebody if I point to Pastor duck and I say

I will give your brother's money that does not include you So dr. White has to tell me that Israel is not spoken in the singular and since I don't have no more rebuttals

I can't really respond. I've got the Hebrew here Then dr. White tells us that there's only one manuscript the

Syriac one in a different language Why should we accept that? But then they expect Jews to accept

Matthew's rendering of Isaiah 7 whatever word virgins not there in Hebrew They expect the

Jews to believe a Greek translation of the Septuagint. How long after Moses dr. White you have to be consistent

Then dr. White mentions Babylonians are great nation. So according to you Are the worshippers are great nation to?

Yahweh Yahweh speaking to Abraham talking about he's gonna bless Ishmael's children he's descendants and that and according to you that's just physical.

They're gonna be either worshippers then then dr. White mentions John chapter 1 where the priests the

Pharisees asked John the Baptist three questions and dr. White's trying to say look to ask the

Jew and Israelite So they thought that this was gonna be a Israelite But I even showed for my opening statement that even

Heraclius and our sources said I was not sure that he's gonna be among The Arabs it comes back down to you how you interpret scripture

But do you know that point actually refused you to because according to the Dead Sea Scrolls? There were some

Jews who believed that the Messiah would come from the tribe of Levy But isn't according to your Old Testament the

Messiah supposed to come from Judah Why were Jews asking John the Baptist from the tribe of Levy if he's the

Messiah dr. White that excludes Jesus So you believe from the tribe of Judah be consistent then dr.

White mentions Nazarene and the branch that's kind of I was waiting for that.

Just one second, please. I've got the Oxford Annotated Bible here this is what they say about this there is a similarity in sound and Possibly in meaning between the

Aramaic word for Nazareth and the Hebrew word translated branch So if Nazarene because it sounds similar to the

Hebrew word for branch for Phil's and Belzer Matthew Chapter 2 then the Greek word for Ahmed is pericletos last time.

I checked that sounds like pericletos folks Very similar be consistent if the Quran's false here.

So is the gospel of Matthew Also about Bart Ehrman Dr.

White said he's what he's debated with Bart Ehrman, but let's see what Bart Ehrman had to say about the canons

Quite the contrary. This is on page 190 of Jesus interrupted the debate over which books to include in the

Bible was long and hard -fought Historically there have always been churches in some countries that have slightly different canons to the one we have

Dr. White is arguing from silence if he assumes that every Christian especially in Arabia who are hiding from the

Byzantines were enforcing their Trinitarian views and canon on these little sects. How do you know they had your canon,

Dr. White? It could be waiting in the desert waiting to be found many Gospels have been found and then

Dr. White mentions that the God infancy gospel of Thomas has got stories similar to the

Quran and Doesn't the Torah have things similar to the code of Hammurabi doesn't that make your

Bible false? Also, dr. White. He's trying to say look Why why is the

Quran calling from these apocryphal sources? But then the book of Jude which he believes inspired quotes from the book of Enoch.

That's apocryphal last time. I checked up the way so You have to be consistent like you always say then dr

Mentioned surah 1094 Where the Prophet peace be upon him is said if you are in doubt to what we reveal

Then ask the people of the book for one the earliest and most classical scholars like October in them

They mentioned that the people of the book were people like some man of Farsi Abdullah bin Salam the learned ones

My scriptures ain't telling me to ask you dr. White. I'm doing a better job myself anyway,

I Do not think dr. White has Said anything against my case.

Dr. White mentioned the Trinity and I'm throwing red herrings and textual criticism But they were only in response to dr.

White's points in these open statement Then I cannot see any other points that the way mentioned are

Jesus called the father the only true God and he didn't mean in That way folks. He called the father the only

Greek word models true God only true God So if Jesus is not the father dr.

White, the Holy Spirit is not the father and the father is the only true God Then Jesus and the

Holy Spirit are not God And once again, I'm asking dr. White to explain to everybody that the comforter who's supposed to come he does not speak on his own

Authority. Can you imagine a God who does not speak on his own authority? He shall speak what he hears

Can you imagine a God that has to be told what to say folks? Come on we don't need degrees to understand that God does not be told what to say and God does not

Speak on anybody else's authority. So please explain it to us. Dr Why if us Muslims don't understand things and you can explain to everybody here how this role system works

This comforter to come after Jesus is like the Prophet like Moses He fits the description of the

Prophet like Moses and Jews and Christians were still waiting for him in a seventh century So as far as dr.

White cannot disprove my points of surah 7157 we must admit that there was a prophet who is going to be like Moses and His descriptions in song of song and balsam is

Makkah Psalms 84 speaks about the valley of Bukka Thank you And now for James Webb the last ten minute rebuttals

All right, Zakir said

I never mentioned the Naas Gospels. Yes, he did you made reference to Bart Ehrman so Bart Ehrman which

Gospels Which Gospels were he referring to which Gospels does he say these early

Christians had now remember Bart Ehrman has a very different definition of Christian that I would have and that you as a Muslim would ever have any

Muslim in this room Believes a person is a Muslim who does not believe the Quran's the word of God and Muhammad's a prophet anybody

I didn't think so But Bart Ehrman thinks people who deny the resurrection of Jesus Christ the deity of Christ and that the

God of the Old Testament is A good God and creator are actually Christians So he has a much wider definition that actually makes the word meaningless so when you say

Christians had them, okay Zucker says, how do I know what Gospels the

Arabian Christians had? Okay, Zucker This is simple prove to me that they had anything other than Matthew Mark Luke and John they called it scripture

There's plenty of writings from them prove it. Give me some references You can't

Notice the arguments from silence that are being used here. Well, they might have had a different cannon. You don't know Yeah, the enterprise might have beamed something down to him in a time war

I don't know, but that's not how you do scholarly argumentation If you're going to say I'm bearing the burden of proof and I'm gonna say this then you demonstrate to me

Here's Arabian Christians at the time of Muhammad and they were using the Gospel of Thomas that prophesized the coming of Muhammad Don't just say well, it's possible.

Maybe you don't know that's not argumentation that holds up in any court of law Anywhere. I think we have finished the

Mahmoudine If you want to believe that an adjective in Poetry that is in parallel to another phrase and use because it is in poetic rhyme is

The name of a prophet when the vast majority Notice that Zucker says well,

I can find a scholar over here. It says this folks. You can find a scholar. It says anything. I Can find scholars to say

Muhammad didn't exist. I can find people who were Muslims to say Muhammad didn't exist.

So what I happen to think he did I think I can make a pretty good argument that he did But you can find a scholar who can say anything

The question is can you find a consistent scholar who has a consistent worldview and will handle his materials consistently?

That's the big thing soccer likes to talk about consistency consistency But so far he hasn't shown a single inconsistency because I'm afraid soccer that doesn't understand the material he's dealing with Jonah was a sign given to that generation.

Jesus said there is no other sign given this generation than the sign of Jonah William Lane Craig I Challenged soccer.

He actually said that William Lane Craig said the New Testament writers were taking things out of context Give me a quote

I want to see where William Lane Craig said the New Testament writers taking things out of context Well William Lane Craig said was there are references in the

New Testament that are difficult for the first century Jews to understand and to Follow he did not say they were taking things out of context

That's two completely different statements, and I believe William Lane Craig would back me up on that He says there's a lot of stuff

Saying that the Song of Solomon isn't about Solomon. Well, there's a whole lot more stuff saying there is how's that?

Like the vast majority of all Jewish commentary down to the centuries and all Christian commentary and everything else

That's that's pretty easy if we're gonna go to that level of debate Isaiah 714 refers to an

Alma Not a pathola refer to an Alma Alma can mean a young woman of marriageable age

The Greek septuagint is what uses Parthenos Parthenos was the term specifically for the

Parthenon For virgin and that is what Matthew uses Now it's amazing to me when

I hear Muslims buying Jewish argumentation Especially with the fact that the

Jews Have not accepted their argumentation about the Torah in regards to Muhammad But if you want to use that argumentation

I can show you exactly why the Greek septuagint Utilizes that terminology and the fulfillment in Jesus.

It's fair It's not a matter of misusing something or taking something out of context

And by the way, the statement that Jesus said you will see the kingdom of God coming. What's the very next chapter in Matthew?

Peter James and John go up on top of the Mount of Transfiguration and they see Jesus transfigured before them and he's speaking

With Moses and Elijah the law and the prophets confirming the Messiah who has come

They saw the kingdom of God come with power. It was fulfilled. It's not some false prophecy

It is not relevant that the term for Israel That the pronoun used for Israel in Deuteronomy 18 15 is singular, how is that relevant?

God is speaking to the people of Israel and says that the Prophet who's going to be sent to you will be it from among your brothers and The limit the king is from among your brothers and that's singular too.

So what? The fact matter is any Honest reading of Deuteronomy 17 and 18 shows you without question

That ah, ah, he is in reference to the people of Israel in that context

That's the fulfillment in Acts chapter 3. There's no reason to look for anything else Great nation has a meaning in context the great nation that I mentioned in regards to the

Babylonians Means the great nation can be used of someone who's not a true follower of God That means they're big and they're powerful and God has made lots of nations that were big and powerful like Babylonians and Assyrians And he frequently used them to punish his people

It's irrelevant to any type of argumentation that we have here this evening. I mentioned that in John 1 29 the fact that the

Jews asked John are you the Prophet demonstrated that they were not looking for an Arabic fulfillment to that text.

That's the only reason that I raised the point He says well, there's there's Dead Sea Scrolls and they were looking for this kind of person

Well, show me the where the Dead Sea Scrolls are looking for a guy named Muhammad from Mecca It's just it's just again the

Dead Sea Scrolls contain all sorts of things Because they represent a group that was not even in the mainstream of Judaism Is that what you're gonna start looking for now are amongst the the mainstream is that who?

Surah 6 and surah 7, surah 61 and surah 7 was addressed to. They were gone by the time the

Quran came along How could the Quran be addressing them? They were gone They didn't exist anymore unless you want to try to put them someplace in Arabia Then we had well, you know periclutas sounds a lot like parakletos

Folks that is a classic example that demonstrates my opponent tonight does not read

Greek Because you see in continental languages Semitic languages

You can have a root that is the same. Yes, but the vowels are not a part of the word You have vowel pointing y 'all understand what that means

Greek that's not the case. The vowels are very much a part of the word and you could not minimize it down to just the

Consonant letters and say oh they look the same to me. And since you're talking about Greek manuscripts show me Bart Ehrman Bruce Metzger FF Bruce or anybody else that has ever said there's a single manuscript on God's green earth

That reads periclutas of John 14 anywhere Anywhere Sinaitic Syriac, maybe it's not there and you know

Jude quotes from Enoch. Yes, he does. We don't have any problem with that at all. You see the difference is The Quran says these are the words from God now

I know that there are Muslims who recognize the Quran uses pre -existing sources, but I've debated Muslims including representatives of MDI Who have said that there is no reliance whatsoever by the author of the

Quran on any previous written source These are all dictated by the angel Gabriel. There's no use of pre -existing sources.

And if there's anything it's a parallel. It's just a coincidence. I Mean I'll go ahead and say it.

That's what Abdullah Kanda said to me less than a year ago in Sydney I don't I can't hold you accountable for that. But that's what was said to me.

And so the difference is we don't say That when God gave the New Testament that the

New Testament writers ignored everything that had been written before They make reference to books that were written at that time.

That's not a problem I'm well aware of what Enoch is about been there done that got the t -shirt

But how does that work for the Quran? If you're gonna say tonight, well, yeah, Muhammad used other sources

He drew from the empty Gospels and he he drew from Jewish mythology and he he drew fine great

I'm be glad to hear it. We can have a discussion Given that but the vast majority of Muslims I've talked to said not even a possibility

So if that's soccer's position, I would like him to state that and then I will say okay, let's have a discussion about them

We heard John 17 3 again And as I said The only way that the incarnate one could refer to the father is as the only true

God because there's only one God we don't Believe in polytheism despite what is asserted to us But that same person in the next sentence said glorify me father with the glory

Which I had you with you before the world was you don't believe Jesus would ever have said that you never you do not believe Jesus would ever call the father in those words.

Do you that's the very next sentence? So why quote the first sentence if you don't follow the second sentence? We are told can you imagine a

God? Can You imagine the God who would do these things who would who would be told what to say in regards the

Holy Spirit guess what? Folks I can imagine a God Who loved me so much?

That he entered into his own realm to give his life so I might live That's an amazing thing to imagine

Thank you Okay, we are a bit limited for time but the

Good most administrator looking at me So what we're gonna do is If you don't mind have to skip the crossfire just go for conclusions

I think if we're on time if the time a time issue because you have to be out here by nine o 'clock, unfortunately So sorry about that But Hey, don't don't make the guys feel bad.

Okay, come on You trying to hide now that wasn't me All right, don't make the mosque administrator unhappy because we want to come back and may

I thank you sir for allowing us to be Could we say thank you very much Okay, so just in the pre -made conclusions

I don't have to be tied to notes.

So let me just talk Thank you everyone Thank you to my brothers and sisters in the

Lord who took the track down here Thank you for being here and praying for this event.

I Want to thank every single Muslim in this room. I Really do You need to understand why

I do what I do I'm not a former Muslim or anything. I didn't have a

Muslim key my car one day. So now I'm mad That means take your key That's not why do

I do I Truly desire In what

I write and what I say To show you one thing I care about you There are people the book who care about you

And I spend hours of my life every week listening to what you believe. No, I'm doing right now

I'm listening while riding a bicycle To all of Sahih al -Bukhari and I mean all of it and some of you know what

I mean, but There are a couple sections of Sahih al -Bukhari that are not enjoyable and you know that You know why

I do that so I can hear you so I can understand Again, I have to do that to understand.

I've not received the back. Don't I have to do that? I don't know. It's the only way I can do it I'm not I only be debating a week from the night on some of the subjects.

You just heard you were taking notes, weren't you? Oh, yes, you were And Wednesday night where Sammy Sammy and I will be debating at Trinity Road Chapel I hope you'll come out every

Muslim in this room You will be an honored guest as we have felt as honored guests this evening at Trinity Road Chapel I can guarantee you and at Twin Home Baptist Church on Monday night

Please come out But please think about what I've said this evening Think about the arguments that were presented

Do you really believe don't don't worry about the emotions of tonight go home read surah 7

Read surah 61 read those texts and ask yourself the question as those words were given

Did they have meaning and what did they mean and if I heard anything that could actually fulfill

What those words demand? For clarity and force

And I suggest to you that a poetic reference To how good your future husband looks is not from basis

For believing in the prophethood of Muhammad and the Holy Spirit who will be in the disciples

Not somebody 600 years down the road. That's not a firm basis and Those brothers they are

Jews Think about it Listen thank you very much for being here tonight

Hello again everybody, I'd like to start off as we draw to a conclusion to mention something

I mentioned Very promises to Abraham Hagar and Ishmael that he will make the descendants numerous

He will bless them and he will turn them into a great nation Remember what Moses himself said in Deuteronomy chapter 4,

I believe is verse 7 or verse 17 Talking about what made the Israelites so great the fact that they were close to the one true

God and the fact that they had These commandments. I also mentioned that the lands that God had promised to Abraham's descendants

Were also taken by Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him and the Arabs when they became this great nation.

I also mentioned Respected Jewish rabbis who seen the fulfillment of Islam.

I'll repeat it once again We see from the prophecy in this verse that two thousand three hundred and thirty seven years elapsed before the

Arabs Ishmael's descendants became a great nation. I Also showed everybody how the type of things that Moses achieved

Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him achieved Very similar historically speaking put theology to one side for one second

Historically speaking they achieved and did the same type of things I also mentioned to everybody here that Jesus spoke about somebody to come after him

Someone who will be told to what to say and shall not speak on his own authority and he shall foretell the future

Also, I mentioned the description of song of Solomon Remember nobody tonight told me that Muhammad peace be upon him skin color wasn't white and red

His hair wasn't black and wavy the word Arab is not there in the text the fact that he's a chief amongst 10 ,000 and The name is in the text if you were going to spell

Muhammad It's there in the text and it does not appear in the same form anywhere Also, the balsam trees is mentioned in Psalms 84 the valley of Baka an ancient name for Makkah where people do pilgrimage

And we're according to the Septuagint. I don't give a shock on so last but not least.

I've got a present for dr White I did email him to see if he's read this book, but he never responded

So I hope he hasn't got this book in his collection. It's the sea of nectar. Thank you. Thank you very much So I'd like to thank everybody here, and I hope you enjoyed yourself and nobody was offended.