Bashir Vania

Webcasting around the world from the desert metropolis of Phoenix, Arizona. This is the dividing line. The Apostle Peter commanded Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us.

Yet to give that answer with gentleness and reverence. Our host is dr. James White director of Alpha Omega ministries and an elder at the Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church. This is a live program and we invite your participation if you'd like to talk with dr. White call now at 602 973 460 to or toll-free across the United States.

It's 1 877 7 5 3 3 3 4 1. And now with today's topic here is James White. And welcome to the Janet Mefford show. Wait a minute. What are we doing? Where am I? I don't know. That's I can make any sense five years from now listening on the way back machine.

But I guess I should explain that I this is our number four for me. Today anyways, I did get a break. Anyway, it's a couple hours break. I suppose that makes it somewhat better. But some of you well, I don't know if anybody I don't think any station carries all three hours live.

So I doubt that it'd be anybody unless you were listening to the feed live. I've already heard three hours worth of the program today. But I've been filling in for and I can feel it my voice who I'm gonna have to you have to back it off a little bit here.

But I've been filling in for Janet Mefford on the Salem broadcasting network the last Two days and I've got one more day tomorrow and tomorrow. I don't have any guests. So it's just gonna be me myself and I.

But today yesterday I had Carl Truman on the first hour and that was fun he and I get along real well and and have similar senses of humor if people could identify it as that and. Then today dr. K Scott Oliphant both I've just been.

I think Westminster needs to send me some books or something for all the advertising. I've been doing for him for the past two days, but Dr. Oliphant who teaches systematic theology and apologetics there at Westminster in Philadelphia.

Joined me and we I got through. He dr. Oliphant has ten tenets in In his book Covenant apologetics, and I think I sort of I sort of squished together some of them I Guess and sort of we had to summarize some of them in some way.

But we got through about eight of them. I would say and that was pretty good. I I was sort of proud of myself having gotten quite that far but I know it's the subject probably not overly normal for a program like that.

You know, I was a little concerned that that some people might have some issues with with that but it went well, we had a really good time together and then. The next hour I did first Corinthians chapter 1 and we got some missing calls including a universalist.

Yeah, that was I was interesting. These haven't been posted yet. I just checked at on Janet's site and they're not up yet. I did put a link up. Jordan leg had asked me on Twitter. Where the interview that I because then the third.

Well, actually, I just realized Jordan leg didn't understand what I said. Someone had asked me where the link would be and I checked and they're not up yet. So Probably tomorrow today's programs will be up and so on and so forth.

But I had said the third hour then I did it. I did a review of Reza Aslan's book and So he actually asked can we get a link for the archive of that interview? I didn't do an interview with Aslan. I don't think we'd end up doing an interview, especially since some of the stuff I read today I didn't mention this on the Mefford show, but some of the tweets That I have read from two different sources.

From Aslan have been troubling foul profane nasty just nasty. Extremely unscholarly. Though obviously there are many people who are called scholars who are profane and nasty and everything else. So I suppose it shouldn't be how I describe it.

But anyway it It's been really interesting it's it's a whole lot easier to do this to do the dividing line. More enjoyable to in this sense I have this clock. I have this will not a really clock but I just have these these breaks and They're they're called hard breaks.

You've got to go into them. And and so Bobby belt the professor the professor. Yeah, right. Well the professor the program the yeah, the producer the program he can talk to me in my my earphones and So, you know It starts at six minutes after and I've got to do one of these quick promos I've got to do I've got to do like about a five to seven second thing about what the program is going to be about and So, yeah, you have to you have to come up with that.

Hope you get it, right the first time, you know, and Then the theme music starts and then you go from six to What is the first one thirteen I think yeah six to thirteen and then you take four minute break and Then the next section is the longest section you have.

Where you're actually live on the air you get the most done there and then you go out at 30 and you come back in at 34 and you've only got six minutes go out at 40 and you have four and then you go to 52 and That's eight minutes.

And then you got three and a half at the end, basically before the hour is over with and They're hard breaks. You can't you can't miss them. You can't go. Ah, let's just skip this one doesn't work that way.

You just you you got it. And if and if you're interviewing somebody and you ask him a question you got a side because guys sit there and going Are they gonna get this done or how do I interrupt them nicely, you know?

So it's um, it's different, you know here I just talk for an hour and If I go, let's take a break, you know. Then we can queue up a break and you know, it's and it's the same old commercials all the time I will never forget when we first Left kpxq and went webcasting by the way, I was I'm in the studio where you were.

Because you know, you'd look over. Yeah over the studio. I was in right? But that's where you were. So the old engineering. Yeah, that's that studio. Yeah, that's that's where I'm doing it. So is that still the engineering does the studio or they just simply move that?

I I don't know because you know, both kknt and kpxq are right there and it's all it's all done by computer. Well, I will never forget. I tried to put together this Structure. Oh, yeah, right, and I'm like, okay, we'll take a break here and here and you're like Well, you could try.

Yeah, well most of radios like that though, I mean well I grew up doing radio. Though the only hard break I had and I say grew up doing I was I was on air. At age 16 actually, I think age 15, but the only hard break I had was UPI news the top of the hour I mean that you know, if you remember the old radios, they'd have a beep.

They'd have a tone right the hour. So that was the only hard break I had. I would have stuff, you know at the half-hour. You're supposed to do X Y Z, but it didn't have to be right on it. It was a soft break you could slide into it and it could be 30 seconds either direction.

It didn't make any difference. Well given the fact that you haven't I don't think in this the six hours between yesterday and today uttered the word Once. Hmm not a single time. That's interesting that I've noticed.

No, I think folks can tell you've done radio before. Oh, well, yeah, and This is kind of second nature to you. Well, it is but it's it's still different than this. This is This is a whole lot easier, this is this is this is less Stressful today was easier than yesterday.

Today was a lot easier than yesterday once once you start getting the breaks down it's like okay, and you know when Bobby's gonna be talking to you in the ears and and At two minutes he'll go two minutes and Sometimes you have to get the debt.

Did I hear that? You know and the thing is because of the delay it's not on the clock. It's eight seconds earlier than the clock. So you're having to go, okay 52 seconds and okay, I mean, oh, you know the first day it's just sort of like me but you get used to it and Bobby's probably listening to this already.

And probably laughing going stop telling our secrets and things like that. But he did laugh today when I when I told him during one of the breaks I said, I'm just gonna have to say good afternoon. I have to say good afternoon because whenever you're on hold for Janet either as a guest or a caller.

You know Janet's got this recorded things and and and do I say after good afternoon because our program airs at different times during the Day, and you just get this overwhelming evil desire to say Just it's like don't eat the cookies.

You just have to do it. So anyway that was. But at least you get every few minutes to get a four minute break. I suppose that's better than nothing if you're you know. But the music is just so Relaxing during the four-minute break you just sort of fall asleep and then wake up anyways.

I Did I actually believe it or not? I am quite the multitasker today. I Looked up the ten tenets real quick. I just opened up Kindle and grabbed the book and This is what dr. Elephant and I talked about today I'm just gonna go through them case you if you have not picked up the book.

We should by the way, we should carry it. It should it just obviously it should be something we should carry. We're always a little bit behind. We're just the world's greatest marketers but the ten tenets he seemed to enjoy going over those and it sort of gave some structure to our conversation and It was it was a good conversation.

I think I'd love to see if we could Have it posted longer than it normally is posted or get a copy of it or something like that because I think it was a Good discussion, but the ten tenets that Dr. Elephant has on a fire call is page 55 of the paper edition of the text.

The faith that we are defending this number one must begin with and necessarily include the triune God father son and Holy Spirit who as God condescends to create and to redeem so we start with the Christian God.

We don't start with a mere a bare theism a mere theism a general theism because as dr. Elephant likes to say General Theis go to hell. Not go to hell general Theis, but general. It's an observation. It's a fact not a not a curse.

Number two God's covenantal relation revelation is authoritative by virtue of what it is and any covenantal Christian apologetic will necessarily stand on and utilize that authority in order to defend Christianity and.

So we're talking about the revelation of God in Christ. We're especially about Scripture itself at that point. Number three it is the truth of God's revelation together with the work of the Holy Spirit.

That brings about a covenantal change from one who is in Adam to one who is in Christ. If a person is going to experience that great Grace of God in conversion then it is the truth of God's revelation together with work of the Holy Spirit that brings that about and You don't trust in that.

Then you're always be looking for something else and you're looking for some other kind of apologetic methodology. Which unfortunately is what many people do? Man male and female as image of God is in covenant with the triune God for eternity.

What I did is I took four five and six and I sort of squished them together because we were running out of time. You only have like I said, what six? Mmm, I forget what I you know, I've been staring at it and I can't add it all up.

But you've you've got less than 40 minutes per hour, I think. Grand total so it's not a lot of time so I put all these together. Number five all people know the true God and that knowledge entails covenantal obligations and number six those who are and remain in Adam suppress the truth that they know those who are in Christ see that truth for what it is and so we sort of put them together as a summary of biblical anthropology.

You got to know who it is you're trying to reach and You've got a note. They're gonna be suppressing the truth. You got to know they're made in the image of God. These are vitally important things and he agreed that that really is the dividing line and that certainly came out in the Jaros Conversation.

I feel really badly. I am three quarters the way through a fairly lengthy response to Kurt Jaros Written. I have just never finished it. I started it before when I was in New Mexico. I Just too many things.

I've got I've got all this going on and I've got to get sermon prep done before Sunday and I've got all sorts of emails going back and forth about stuff in South Africa and all the rest that kind of thing and so.

It's just like I'll get to it eventually someday by then. No one will care anymore. But we'll get to it eventually. Number seven. There is an absolute covenantal antithesis between Christian theism and any other opposing position thus Christianity is true and anything opposing It is false.

Had a good conversation of the radical nature of that last statement. But the radically logical statement right radically logical nature of that last statement thus Christianity is true and anything opposing it is false.

That's just given from the nature of truth and error and Given that so many people reject objective truth. It makes sense why they would find that to be just so offensive. Number eight suppression of the truth.

Like the depravity of sin is total but not absolute. Thus every unbelieving position will necessarily have within it ideas concepts notions and the like. That it has taken and wrenched from their true Christian context.

This is the stealing from the Christian worldview issue that I didn't read that one, but we did get to it. We did we did touch upon it. As well number nine the true covenantal knowledge of God and man together with God's universal mercy allows for persuasion apologetics.

And number ten every fact and experience is what it is by virtue of the covenantal all-controlling plan and purpose of God. Good good tenets to look at a good book to have if you want to just hold you haven't gotten it yet then.

Wait till we offer it and then get it from us, but most people I know have already gotten it. Who are already interested in in these types of of things so it's been great tomorrow. I'm not a hundred percent certain what I'm gonna be doing.

But I'll probably in the first hour talk about whatever Christian needs to know about the code on. I did sort of during the Aslan thing go off on a tangent about Laila talqader. Because this is Ramadan right now.

And this is the week of Laila talqader and I explained I've explained Laila talqader on the program before the night of power. But if you didn't hear that. Just really briefly. The the odd numbers of that last week 21 23 25 27 and if it's long enough 29.

One of those evenings one of those nights is called Laila talqader now the The Muslims do not know exactly which night it is it had been revealed to Muhammad according to the Hadith. But then when he came out and he was about to tell the people Which night it was they were arguing with one another and because they were arguing with one another.

He was caused to forget what the which of the nights it was other than it was one of those odd-numbered nights. Muhammad had this weird thing for odd numbers, you know, he'd only eat an odd number of dates.

You know, he's supposed to use an odd number of rocks to cleanse yourself and you go to the bathroom and all this other sorts. Of strange stuff. So anyway. So I Don't know which night of Ramadan it is right now.

I didn't look it up. Maybe somebody can go online and tell me right now which night of Ramadan it is but sometime around this time. What that means is that our Muslim friends are probably doing all night stuff right now and sleeping during the day because Prayers on the night of laila talqader forgiveness of sins on the night of laila talqader much greater than any other night of the year according to Muhammad's teachings and That's going on right now.

So I sort of took a little diversion there and explained that. Which is not the normal kind of stuff that they're probably used to and the affiliates are probably The affiliates are probably going what is this guy doing?

But those have to recognize that I'll be out of there. You know. By the end of the week by the weekend, she'll be back. It must be tough though to do a program like that. You just don't get a whole lot of time off and Bobby was telling me that they've only had a few guest hosts she must do this a lot and so anyway, I Guess JD Hayworth filled in for a month once and Wheaton Who.

No, the the tennis player that I was on with just recently, huh? David Wheaton, right? He's filled in too. Sorry about that, David. But it's been a long day I Have a number of items here on in the in the pocket get pocket calm.

It's a nice little program. I gotta admit an app or whatever you call it website. I don't know I have get pocket in on my phone on my iPad on my max. Anyplace, I've got a browser. I've got this thing and when I run across something That I want to use in a program now.

I used to do this. How did I do it? And I did it in Chrome. Oh, yeah, I dropped it into a into a bookmark thing I had but since I've had to stop using Chrome as my primary browser because it likes to fry Mac CPUs I found this Website called get pocket comm and you can just click a thing and poof.

It's there and it really really nice. Really really useful one of them that was actually sent to me by Bobby belt. Who's Janet Mefford's producer. I don't think he'll mind if I use some of the things he said to me that I didn't use in a program.

But use them now. Creation science and intelligent design a religion and not appropriate content for science courses at a public university such as Ball State University. Because it violates academic integrity.

The school's principal said in a letter Wednesday to faculty and staff intelligent design is overwhelmingly deemed by the scientific community as a religious belief. And not a scientific theory. Therefore intelligent design is not appropriate content for science courses.

Joanne Gora wrote. She wrote that more than 80 national and state scientific societies has said that intelligent design and creation science not qualify as science. Such ideas can be taught in humanities or social science courses She said but must be discussed in comparison to other views and philosophical Perspectives each other with no endorsement of one perspective over another it's just amazing the blindness of the Academy and academics.

I think what we're seeing is the result of academics where not only of course as Expelled documented so thoroughly and could it could document with even more thoroughness today the bias and bigotry on the part of the science community that is that is Absolutely parallel to the bias and bigotry of the Roman Catholic Church for the Kalileo.

Just just an utter unwillingness to even consider the possibilities that that the Prevailing sentiments are incorrect, but the utter non-reflective nature of especially scientists Who are just completely ignorant of epistemology and all the things that that they are they are completely controlled by but don't even know it.

They don't even I guess a good parallel would be when you talk to certain people remember Dave hunt James. I have no traditions. Yes, Dave you do. But the fact that you don't think you do means you don't see them and that's the same thing here here.

You've got an academic and oh, that's just that's just religion. You know what? Doesn't know what all these groups have said so and they they must have thought through it fairly and well no, they didn't actually but.

It's you know, we're still gonna we're still gonna make make this statement. It is it is amazing thing and and anybody who can look at the complexity of life and go Intelligent design no, no, I mean it's so basic.

It's so clear and so anybody who doesn't see it if that doesn't demonstrate to you their foolish Hearts are darkened. I don't know what would I Really don't know what would it's. It shouldn't be shocking to us.

I mean, this is just a fulfillment of Romans 1 1st Corinthians 1 2. It is but that's that's that's the way that is. Another one that was sent to me was very interesting and that there was I'm not gonna read that read it.

But there was one from Christian post .com. Economist pitches plan to reverse decline of United Methodist Church before it quote ceases to exist as we know it end quote. Uh. Why don't these I don't even know why they've ever been called mainline in the first place.

I don't know where that term came came from mainline denominations. But why why can't anyone get the clue? That abandoning historic Christianity is bad for a denomination. I mean, I mean all you gotta do is look at the numbers and it's just.

You know. That's the only way to describe it is this this massive decline in fact, I think I have one in here. That talks about the Yeah, why is liberal Protestants of Protestantism dying anyway well, duh.

There's a reason for it and I guess that that wasn't the one that had the graph in it. There was there was one that had a graph. That was really really interesting. That just showed the the the decline and and it's like it's real clear.

It's real obvious. Why why don't you recognize really what's what's going on? But but they don't and then of course this X key score thing, you know, the NSA X key score thing. Where Snowden is saying that that basically it's not just our phone calls.

It's everything it is everything. It's every online chat. It is every email it it's all there. Which of course the government's saying no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, you can't no you can't. Just get shriller and shriller and shriller, but they've got.

They've actually got the presentations. It's it's the PowerPoint stuff on how to do this stuff. It's like hello. It's called documentation. No. No, we can't. No, we can't do that. Oh, yes, you can. You just got to realize something if you say something.

With any type of a mic of a microphone electronic microphone. Anywhere nearby you just assume you're talking to the government if you type it if you say it, I Think I think we should all just start walking around texting each other.

Witnessing to all the people in the government. They're listening to us. They'd be the best way to do evangelism in the future until they start doing other thing. Yes, sir. As you say that In my Facebook feed this morning.

There's a story of a family. He's sitting on the computer Googling backpacks while she's sitting on her computer googling pressure cookers next thing you know they have six stormtroopers on their doorstep and at first the story was they were feds and Now the feds are saying no it wasn't us so apparently this was a What do you call it when different agencies get together a task force?

Terrorism task force in Massachusetts locals. The question is how did the locals? Know That she was googling. Oh, no, they can't you can't do that. No. No the Obama administration has told us you can't.

No, we all believe you. Yeah, right I'll tell you Government is an aggregate is an aggregation of sinners and If that's not good enough reason to to fear the government. I I don't know what else would be but anyways.

Anyhow, lots of interesting stuff. There was also another one that I had actually come with this Wraith Badawi Saudi Arabia Islamic authorities sentenced a liberal journalist to 600 lashes and seven years in prison.

After he questioned the role of religion and this is in Saudi Arabia. Yeah Wraith Badawi Founder of the free Saudi liberals website was sentenced to 600 lashes and seven years in prison his crime Insulting Islam speaking ill of Saudi Arabia's religious beliefs.

I Think you just did that and most puzzling of all parental disobedience. There you go. There you go. Can you can can you survive 600 lashes or is that just done like, you know 30 a day for 20 days or I Don't even know.

I don't even know. Um turds and fan and channel we should just walk around evangelizing the government via prism. Hey, let's use everything, you know, let's. Maybe we can just get all those people that are listening to everything.

We're doing saved and Well, I was googling my pressure cooker the other day and looking for a backpack and then you go into a prison. Yeah, then you go. I Started thinking about how sinful I am and my need of Salvation.

Yes, that's. That would be the way to do it amazing. Because that's scary because I was I actually googled backpack recently. And I'll tell you why when I rode the double triple bypass. I I Decided I needed to carry enough rain stuff, but I didn't want to wear the rain stuff.

I didn't have anything to carry it in. There's there's just too much for my jersey. And so I did is I I used my little it's called a camelback or you it's a water reservoir. But this was a type that didn't have the flap over it.

So it just had this big hole it worked. But you know what? I want it's a really small one. So I actually saw an ad advert, you know those side column things and I clicked on it and and I'm just awful glad I wasn't looking for Any cooking utensils at the same time?

Is this something you might want to avoid in the future? Yeah, that's interesting. Wow. Okay, obviously I have now wandered all over. Oh, we've covered everything so far. Yeah, I Can only concentrate for I am Three hours a day.

That's it. I am now running in the red zone. And so that's just Just how it works. I better go I better get back to responding to Bashir Vanya here or I'm not gonna know what in the world I'm talking about.

At least when I'm responding to somebody. They're actually sort of providing the guidance of what I'm supposed to be talking about. So I suppose that's a good thing. All right, and that'll give us half an hour's worth of response, which is about what I've been doing too.

So that's. That's good. But sure Vanya we've already listened to the beginning we someone by the way, I want to thank whoever did this I don't have it up in front of me but Someone who was listening to last program looked up all the member Bashir quoted all these people and So he looked him up he looked up who these people were and when they lived and they're all from the 18 late 1800s all of Nothing from the modern period nothing that would reflect for example the existence of the papyri or anything.

It was it was pretty weird and I appreciate that email. Thank you very much For saying that to me, but we continue on listening to Bashir Vanya's Opening statement.

Bashir Vania's Opening Claims About Manuscripts and the Gospels

Let me let me sum it up quickly for you. Firstly the most complete manuscripts of the New Testament Codex, Vaticana, Sinaiticus, Alexandrinus, Codex Visa are on dated at around 400 AD and.

As I was just saying very very dated. Information not accurate. Putting putting Sinaiticus with basic and Canterbury Gensis. When they're about a century or more. Separate from. And of course the real issue being the fact that we now we have the papyri and.

Okay, okay, you might say yes, but you have the papyri, but he said complete manuscripts and so. We're actually okay. Yeah, but if you haven't even mentioned the papyri, that's not a good thing. Because the papyri are extremely important in the establishment and the demonstration that the text found in the unsealed manuscripts themselves.

Has a history preceding it and it didn't just pop into existence somewhere the.

Gospels in fact Matthew Mark Luke and John. Strangely enough. We do not have the gospel of Jesus by Jesus.

And now you might go what? But again, this is this is a misunderstanding of the Quran itself. Well, it's a misunderstanding. It may be a misunderstanding let me let me put this way the author of the Quran is ignorant of the New Testament.

That's just a fact. There is no recognition on the part of the author of the Quran of the actual contents and teachings of the New Testament as a result the the author of the Quran has heard of the gospel and assumes that the gospel is a book and.

So since there is not a and that it was given to Jesus because it was you know Christians would talk about the gospel of Jesus and. So because there is no quote-unquote gospel of Jesus. Then Muslims taking the Quran is their ultimate authority.

Some Muslims most Muslims sadly go. Oh, well, yeah, the gospel is given to Jesus, but that's not the Gospels of Matthew Mark Luke and John or anything like that following Anachronistically going backwards the ignorance of the author of the Quran.

Assuming therefore that there was a book given to Jesus that somehow Jesus failed to preserve and somehow Jesus disciples failed to preserve and somehow there's not even a reference to Anywhere in history at all now, which is more likely.

The Jesus failed all those apostles have failed and that none none of history even records this or that one guy in Saudi Arabia 600 years didn't know what he was talking about, which is more likely. It's pretty clear.

Pretty clear, which is more likely but once again when you just start with well the Quran is just sort of exists unto itself. And yeah, it talks about the stuff that's come before it. But we don't need to worry about that.

We don't we don't need to judge it on that line.

We just need to go with whatever it says. And the reverend T Manuel T Manley sorry and a from Cambridge tells us all four Gospels are unanimous are anonymous none bears its writer's name.

Well again a nice theory. Where those names come from? I? Mean the text itself doesn't say I. John wrote XYZ as if that's relevant and and again later developed Islamic thought. Says well, you know when you think about it, we've only got one book and only one author.

So let's make that really important. You can't have any books are written by multiple people. You can't have any books where you don't know who the author was because that makes it spurious. Well, that wasn't the standard then still isn't a standard and when you ask why is that it is the standard?

They just default back to well, it just is and.

That's Not not the way to do things that is from the Bible handbook. In other words There is no proof or no title that Matthew wrote Matthew Luke wrote Luke and so forth. Before I continue ladies and gentlemen an important question and the question is did you spot the difference?

If not, allow me to spell it out for you. I began by quoting prominent non-muslim scholars. Some of them openly hostile towards Islam and Muslims who have assured us that the historical Reliability and authenticity of the Quranic scriptures are beyond question.

I then proceeded to quote.

The a public committee now, by the way, none of those sources mentioned anything that the Islamic sources themselves tell us about the history of the Quran. None of mentioned by Eben Cobb Mentioned Abdul Ibn Masood.

None of mentioned a the palimpsest. Well, of course, they were probably all written before a the palimpsest. Manuscripts. It's on a manuscript or anything else have been found so I'm sorry, but to to go that far back and then ignore the massive developments both in New Testament Studies as well as in Quranic studies now.

There's still so much work to be done in the area of trying to come up with a critical text of the Quran. But still that that doesn't really give you an accurate representation of the current state.

Impeccable credentials who have also assured us that there are serious problems with public manuscripts and biblical scriptures.

Serious problems in what way? Define them. See the assumptions. This is this is the primary issue with with my Muslim friends is the assumptions that are made. The assumption is well you have to know who wrote every book for it to be authentic why you have to have especially when it comes the synoptic Gospels and.

And I'm talking with Yusuf Ismail right now about the topic of our debate. I I want the debate To be on the transmission methodology of the Quran in the New Testament. Similar to what on non Rashid and I did.

Which people have only seen one version of? I really need to Start pressing on that issue where Adnan has been very helpful in trying to get the videos from last year. But it's the folks higher up in the era that are are basically stonewalling us and what I'm concerned about is that we're gonna run into one of these situations where basically For the first time in a long time.

We're gonna have someone saying well, we're not gonna give you the videos. Even though you were in it and even though this has your presentation in it. We're not gonna give you the videos and it's it's been nearly a year now Adnan has done what he can do.

And so I'm really hoping it's not gonna come to that because that could really start causing a problem with other debates. I mean, are we really gonna have to have some type of legal? Notarized we have to start spending money to have attorneys involved.

To get contracts written out and do all the rest of this stuff. I thought this was a matter of honor, you know that both sides want to get their presentations out and so the two debates that we did on the text of the Quran and the text of the New Testament were professionally recorded by the Muslim side in a Baptist Church and We've seen the one it's on YouTube.

But we want the agreement always is and the agreement we had with them was unedited masters. You provide the unedited masters to both sides and then you make your own version available. You don't have to put up the other guy's version has their symbol on it or something like that.

You just and we've done this every time that we've been in control the recording. We've always done this and everyone can tell you that. We've been open about it. So to whoever it is in the era Hierarchy and to the other Muslims who listen you might want to contact them because what they're doing is endangering your ability.