December 20, 2022 Show with Will Dobbie on “From Everlasting to Everlasting: Every Believer’s Biography” (Part 2)

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Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth, who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is Chris Arnson, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Tuesday on this 20th day of December 2022 as Christmas Day rapidly approaches.

I had such a phenomenal time yesterday interviewing Will Dobby, who is pastor of Emanuel Church of Knoxville, Tennessee, on his book, From Everlasting to Everlasting, Every Believer's Biography. That's such a phenomenal time that I wanted to have him back very quickly, and that quick date is today, and we are conducting part two of our discussion on From Everlasting to Everlasting, Every Believer's Biography, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back very quickly to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Will Dobby.

Great to be back, Chris. Thanks for having me.

And if you could, once again, for the sake of our listeners who did not hear you yesterday on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, tell our listeners about Emanuel Church of Knoxville, Tennessee.

Sure.

We are a little baby church, about three months old. We planted out of Providence Church, west of Knoxville in East Tennessee, and like I think I said yesterday, you know, we're not impressive. We kind of embrace and rejoice in not being impressive, because that means that the focus stays on God who is impressive.

We love special needs families. We love college students, and we love going through the Bible verse by verse. So that's us.

And you are theologically Reformed and Baptistic.

Correct.

And if anybody wants to find out more information about Emanuel Church of Knoxville, Tennessee, go to enox .org, that's E-K-N-O-X .org, and God willing, we will be repeating that later on in the program.

Well, we already yesterday went through some major themes of your book. Act one involved life plans, which included such titles as the God who agrees, the covenant of redemption, the God who knows, which involves his foreknowledge, the God who chooses, which involves the doctrine of election.

And we also went through most of the major themes in act two, which is under the heading of life begins, and that included such themes as the God who arranges, which is his providence, the God who creates the conception and physical life, the God who proclaims the general call, the God who calls from within, the inward call, the God who gives spiritual life, regeneration, the God who grants repentance, and the God who grants faith.

Redemption From Sin and the Penalty Thereof

Today we are going to be entering into more of the themes under act three of your book, life from the cross. We've already discussed the God who satisfies wrath, or his wrath, and that is known as the doctrine of propitiation, and the God who declares righteousness, or the God who declares righteous, I should say, the doctrine of justification.

And today we're going to pick up on the God who sets free, which is the doctrine of redemption. And why don't you explain exactly what you mean and what the Bible means, more importantly, about this concept of redemption.

There is great ignorance in regard to what happened during those six hours on a Friday two thousand years ago when the King of Kings and Lord of Lords, Christ Jesus, the Messiah, hung on a cross to have the wrath of his father poured out upon him as a substitute for his people and to ensure the redemption from sin and from the penalty thereof and the enslavement thereof of his people.

So why don't you pick up why even the word redemption is used and anything else that you find of great value in this very glorious theme of redemption.

Yeah, thanks Chris. You put it beautifully yourself, brother. When Jesus was spending those hours on the cross he was redeeming us, that is to say he was setting us free. He was paying the ransom for our sin with his blood.

You know, I think in verses like Mark 10, 45, even the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve and to give his life as a ransom for many. And at the heart of this idea of redemption is freedom. Think of Jesus again in places like John 8 where he says, you know, everyone who practices sin is a slave to sin.

So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. And Jesus set us free through that penal substitutionary atonement that we discussed yesterday. And I mean this doctrine goes deep. He set us free from a number of things.

He set us free from our guilt. He set us free from God's condemnation for our guilt. He set us free from futility that, you know, Peter talks about in 1 Peter 1, you were ransomed from the futile ways inherited from your forefathers, ways in which they tried to get rid of their.

Guilt.

They tried to redeem themselves and it's all futile. And yet Jesus did that for us. We no longer have to frantically try and make ourselves forgiven or sinless or escape God's.

Wrath.

That's futile when we do it ourselves and Jesus set us free from that futility. So those are some of the pathways in which Jesus has redeemed us. And they fuel, they make secure this amazing future way in which we're going to be redeemed.

Paul, looking forward to the new creation, talks in Romans 8 about the redemption of our bodies. So we're going to be free from the effects, the consequences, the scars of sin and fallenness in this world.

And we're going to enjoy a magnificent new creation that has been set free from the curse of the fall. Ever since Genesis 3, and that will involve our own bodies as well as everything else in the world that's coming.

So it's a doctrine about freedom, really.

Yes, that's what you mentioned, the physical aspect that will eventually, ultimately make itself manifest in the glorification of our bodies. We will no longer be in exactly the same bodies that we are in now.

We'll be raised to at the very last day and we will be given a glorified body that is no longer plagued with pain and disease and all sorts of maladies and difficulties. This is one of the glaring, horrible denials of the hyper-preterists who claim that the future holds no such promise of a bodily resurrection of the dead, of those who follow Christ.

Of course, everybody's going to be raised from the dead, even the reprobate, those who have never repented on this earth and died in their sin without any redemption paid for them and they will be judged and cast into the lake of fire.

But those of us who are his children, we wait for this glorious day, do we not, when our bodies will be perfect and glorious and be reunited with our spirit and we'll spend an eternity in heaven with these bodies, if you want to comment a little bit further on that.

I just, as I get older and keep studying the Bible more and more, keep pastoring, I see increasingly how incredibly future-oriented the scriptures are and that's not something we should be ashamed of.

You know, Jesus himself, for the joy set before him, Hebrews tells us, endured the cross and that is just a fundamental way for us to be able to keep enduring and persevering ourselves by looking at the joy set before us in the future, which will make it all worth it.

So yeah, I would want to say we need to boast in the future, not underplay it or deny it. It's one of the main things that keeps me going.

And of course there is another heresy that is more dominant today than the hyper-preterist heresy, which is really comparatively a tiny handful of folks in the world. The Word of Faith movement, they teach that the cross promises and ensures physical healing on this earth and if anyone is not healed of an ailment or even has it to begin with, that reflects a lack of faith on their part and that is a very dangerous and evil heresy, isn't it?

Yeah, it is. I mean, Isaiah does say that by his stripes we are healed but Isaiah is writing, you know, the prophetic poetry and the context of Isaiah as well as the tenor of the rest of Scripture makes clear that he doesn't mean necessarily physically God can heal, but that is not the promise there.

And what we are redeemed from, as I said earlier, is our guilt. Ephesians 1 talks about how in Christ we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses. We're redeemed from, like I said, God's condemnation for our guilt.

Galatians 3 talks about Christ redeemed us from the curse, for it is written, Cursed is everyone who's hanged on a tree. Well, he took that curse from God, that condemnation for us, and he's redeemed us from futility.

If the cross and sufficient faith necessarily leads to a nice life, Paul wasn't a very good Christian, was he? I think suffering is an amazing gift and an opportunity and, I mean, there's another chapter later on.

We'll come on to suffering later, but no, we're not promised whatever we want, name it and claim it.

Yeah, of course, in fact, all of Christ's apostles, with the exception of the false one, Judas, who committed suicide, all of them, except for John, were executed. So that kind of fairy tale where all things will go well for us if we're faithful enough is just that, a fairy tale.

And even John didn't exactly finish his days in a nice hotel. He was in a penal colony on Patmos. So amen. You're right.

Adoption Into God's Family

Well, another area that involves much misunderstanding, even amongst those who are professing Christians, we hear all the time in the media by people who give lip service to Christianity, especially during this time of year, or perhaps Easter.

We will hear people that should know better, that claim to be evangelical, that claim to be members of Bible-believing churches. When you see them very often on conservative television networks, they will very often make the statement that we are all God's children.

If we were all God's children, why is God adopting anyone? He certainly doesn't adopt every single person. And so why don't you pick up on this glorious teaching of adoption, that without it, none of us could ever call ourselves children of God?

Yeah, absolutely. On the previous chapter, Redemption, the book does have multiple very practical applications of these doctrines. I realize we can't cover everything. We've got to keep moving for time.

But yeah, all theology is meant to be lived and loved, it's not just theory, it's not just academics, and adoption matters. And you're right. We are all made in God's image. That is not the same as saying, and Scripture never does say, we are all God's children.

And that is the beautiful miracle of the cross, that having fulfilled the necessary propitiation and justification and redemption, the final step is that God is then able to scoop us up out of the spiritual orphanage in which we languished and bring us home.

And I mean, it just leads to inestimable privileges. It means, for example, we get to speak to the creator of the universe as our personal.

Father.

Jesus begins the Lord's Prayer, and he's teaching his disciples how to pray, our father. It's like a stunning way to address God. It's mind-blowing that he can call him our personal father. We get the Spirit's inward witness, causing us to know God, not to speak to him, but know him as our father.

Paul in Romans 8 talks about how we've received the spirit of adoption as sons by whom we cry, Abba, father. A beautiful onomatopoeic child's tender way of referring to their daddy, Abba. Another privilege would be that because we have this good father, we receive good gifts from him in response to asking him.

He's not stingy or absent or passive or harsh or inept. He's our perfect daddy, and he loves to hear our requests. And then when they're for our best, he loves to grant them. We get this amazing eternal future inheritance from our father, and we talked about the redemption just now.

And we get to have the discipline and the refinement of a wise and loving father because he's our father, not an impersonal force. We're not being pitched about at the whim of a pitiless universe. We're in the intentional, perfectly, perfectly gauging hands of our father so that when tough things happen, it's just not an iota too hard or too easy.

It's just what we need at that time, whether it's to humble us or refine us or save us from something that would otherwise have happened if he hadn't stopped us in our tracks. We should be grateful for his discipline because it's the discipline of a loving father.

And then one I particularly love is that because of this adoption, we gain a worldwide family of brothers and sisters, not the whole of humanity, including those who defy and reject our loving father, but genuine brothers and sisters, fellow Christians.

And so, yeah, what's not to like about this amazing truth of being welcomed into God's own family?

Yes, and that very crucial aspect of the Christian life about the fact that we have brothers and sisters who were made such by God himself. We have to be very careful as not to treat brothers and sisters in Christ harshly.

Not that we're given liberty to treat even the reprobate with unbiblical harshness and returning evil from evil or anything like that. But we are to even hesitate for a greater period on how we respond to our brothers and sisters who may sin against us or perhaps we have sinned against them and have been reluctant to ask them for forgiveness.

And we really have to contemplate seriously if we are holding on to a grudge, if we are holding on to hatred, we have to remember that we are doing this towards someone for whom Christ died.

That's right.

And we are in the reform faith. We believe he died specifically for his children, our brothers and sisters, not a nameless faceless sea of humanity. But if you want to add to anything about that.

Absolutely. He didn't die hypothetically. He died definitely, as in definite atonement. When my 12-year-old beats up my 8-year-old, my 12-year-old has to face my wrath because I'm my 8-year-old's father.

And we just better be careful how we treat our brothers and sisters because they're not just our brothers and sisters. They are the sons and daughters of the terrifyingly powerful and holy God of the universe who, you're right, gave his son for them.

So we better be careful. On that theme of gaining a worldwide family of brothers and sisters, I'm just so struck by Jesus' words about two-thirds of the way through Mark's gospel, around chapter 10. He says that there's no one who's left house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or lands for my sake and for the gospel who will not receive a hundredfold now in this time houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands as well as, you know, in the age to come, eternal life.

So, you know, Chris, you and I, we didn't know each other from Adam before we were on this radio show yesterday. No human reason why we should have anything in common, show each other any kind of kindness.

And yet, you know, we're brothers. I'm a crazy weird foreigner from a strange country of England. Culturally, we're very different. And, you know, we have this bond. We're in the same family. That's precious.

Amen.

In fact, hosting this program has been used of God to develop quite a number of friendships between me and crazy weird Brits on the other side of the pond. And, of course, I think I'm actually crazier and weirder than they are.

But I also want to remind our listeners, they might think to themselves, these guys are going through these glorious, vital, mind-blowing themes very quickly. We could spend a week on each of these. But because of the fact that my guest, Will Dobby's book, From Everlasting to Everlasting, Every Believer's Biography, contains so many important themes of the Scripture, if we're going to cover all of them in any kind of fashion, we are, at least for these first two interviews that we have done and are doing, we're basically giving a cursory examination of the central themes.

And then people can go investigate in further depth each one of them. And, in fact, we've done programs on this. We've done interviews on this program that have taken two hours or more, sometimes more than two days, to discuss each of these subtitles.

But I just thought I'd let our listeners know that we are not being indifferent towards these very important themes when we speed through them with a reasonable effort to not be too speedy. But we do want to cover as much of the book as possible.

I think part of my heart in the book was to put some of these magnificent truths within reach of people who may not know Greek or Hebrew or have been to seminary or maybe have a lot of education. I do believe that even the most profound of God's truths are accessible, should be made accessible to all.

And so, like I say, the heart of this book is to make these very deep things accessible. A day is given to each of these truths. In the introduction, I recommend people may want to take two days on each of these truths.

And there are illustrations, applications, footnotes for further study. But isn't it great that even these most profound things can be enjoyed by all believers?

Amen.

Progressive and Positional Sanctification

One issue that you cover in this third act of Life from the Cross, the God who cleanses, positional sanctification. There is a lot of confusion and division in the body of Christ as to exactly what that means, what the whole concept of sanctification entails.

We have those even in the evangelical camp and even in the fundamentalist camp. And I have to clarify, not everyone who is a fundamentalist would say this, but there are certainly a significant number who basically will teach that sanctification is an option.

It is not something that will with certainty occur in the life of a justified and regenerate individual. They will accuse us of believing in works righteousness just because we insist upon sanctification as an evidence of genuine justification and regeneration.

But if you want to pick up on that, the God who cleanses, positional sanctification.

Chris, just tell me which day you're looking at. Where are you looking at in the book?

Day 17, which is under Act 3 of Life from the Cross. The God who cleanses, positional sanctification.

Okay, I'm afraid I am looking at a slightly different version. I have Day 17, the God who prays.

Wow.

This is on the Christian Focus Publications website.

They must have improved it. Your listeners should get the better updated version than the one I'm looking at. I wrote this over a year ago. I mean, sanctification is, yeah, I was very confused by this for a few years, and the helpful distinction I found was between progressive and positional sanctification.

Progressive sanctification is the truth that, by God's will, we strive to grow in spiritual maturity and godliness. 1 Thessalonians 4, Paul says, We ask and urge you in the Lord Jesus, as you receive from us how to walk and please God, you do so more and more.

So growth for this is the will of God, your sanctification. Not to be confused with our positional sanctification. Sanctification means cleansing. And, you know, when we're justified, we are declared not guilty.

We're set free. We're redeemed. We have a different status. God's wrath against us has been propitiated. So we're in a different position. We're clean. Is that what you were getting at?

Yes, and basically there are opposite heresies when it involves sanctification. There are those in Rome, Eastern Orthodoxy, and the cults who make justification and sanctification synonymous, and there are those within professed evangelicalism and even fundamentalism who go to the other end of the spectrum and make sanctification something that is a very nice thing that occurs in the lives of some who are truly born again, but it's not a guarantee.

And to insist that it's a guarantee in their minds is a works righteousness heresy.

Well, we're not advocating perfectionism. Sanctification, our perfect cleansing, is a status. It's one that, tragically, we sometimes deny and contradict by our actions when we sin. Our perfection will come in eternity to come.

And also we want to be quick to say that we're not saved by pursuing progressive sanctification. We're saved by grace. We're saved by our faith, not our works. And this comes back to something we talked yesterday, the difference between imputed and imparted righteousness.

God's imparted righteousness is seen as we pursue progressive sanctification, ongoing spiritual growth. We're not saved by it. We're saved by imputed righteousness, the status wonderfully placed on us, which is 100 of God and not at all of us.

And we have to go to our first break right now. And when we return, we will discuss another glorious subject, the God who rose, resurrection. This is an essential theme of the scriptures, which teach us that if we reject the fact that Jesus Christ physically rose from the dead, we are not even truly Christian.

So make sure that you stick around for this very important doctrine when we return from the first break. If anybody has a question, our email address is chrisanzen at gmail .com. C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com.

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