Cody Lawrence & Greg Moore: Top 10 Preachers to Avoid in 2024 DMW#205

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Exploring theology, doctrine, and all of the fascinating subjects in between, broadcasting from an undisclosed location,

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Dead Men Walking starts now. Oh, well, hello, everyone, welcome back to another episode of Dead Men Walking Podcast.

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Love those brothers. All right, cool. Now that we got the business out of the way, let's get to the episode, because I got a guy on here that I just met recently.

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Well, no, he was on the podcast recently, but I met him a few years ago, I believe, at a Fight Laugh Feast conference.

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I'm absolutely loving the content that he is putting out on his newer podcast called

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Spare No Arrows. It is Mr. Cody Lawrence. Cody, how are you, brother? Hey, doing great. Good to be on the show.

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Yeah, we wanted to have you on today. We want to talk about kind of the way I looked at it is maybe the top 10 up and coming preachers or leaders in the church that we should mark and avoid.

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Maybe we call them false teachers, call them wolves. But people that we look at and we say, you know what does not line up with the gospel, and we're going to go through those because you put out some great content, kind of honing in on some of those.

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But before we do that, just give our listeners like a two, three minute bio, the origin story of Cody.

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What are you all about, man? Yeah. So I grew up a Christian and I wanted to be in professional ministry from a pretty young age.

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And then I felt like I was a missionary in Japan. And then I later became a youth pastor.

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And I had a lot of like consecutive, really bad experiences in the church.

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And this was around the same time when deconstruction was starting to become really popular. And there was no chance that I was going to go liberal with my theology.

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And so I was like, there's a problem here. And the problem isn't what these deconstructionists think it is.

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And so instead of saying that God's the problem, my conclusion was that the problem is that the churches are not actually adhering to the word of God enough when the deconstructionists, the liberals, they say, we're adhering to the word of God too much.

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But I look at the church and I see we're not like probably most churches in our nation is in some way or another embarrassed by some part of scripture, which is exactly going to tie into what we're going to be talking about today,

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I think. But yeah, so I noticed that and I'm like, there's a ton of kind of deconstruction podcasts out there where people just dog on Christianity and they hate the church.

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But there's not a lot of like conservative let's talk about these problems in the church and also the biblical solutions to them.

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And so that's why I made my podcast. I love it. Where's the name come from? Let everyone know. Yeah. Spare no arrows is a verse in Jeremiah where the

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God's people were fighting Babylon and God says, spare no arrows against them for they have sinned against the

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Lord. Hmm, man, what a, what a good name for a podcast too. When I saw that,

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I was a little bit jealous. I'm going to say, I was like, man, what a great name. Cause that's a great verse. And it just kind of wraps up that kind of fighter mentality, um, defender of justice and faith and righteousness and all those things, uh, fighting against the wicked and for the oppressed and things like that.

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Um, but yeah, great, great stuff. So married kids, like what's your story there? Single married.

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Yeah, no, I have a wife. Uh, we do not have kids yet, um, but we would very much like to, but the

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Lord has not blessed us with kids yet, but I've been married for, uh, this is our third year of marriage.

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Oh, he's in the honeymoon phase still. Isn't that nice? Are you tired of hearing that when people say that?

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Uh, they don't say that anymore. That's just, no, I was, you know, I was a youth pastor and this was like during the time when

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I was having these bad church experiences and then I, um, started kind of long distance dating my wife more seriously.

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And, uh, and then I was like, uh, you know, I got to quit. And so what do I do next?

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And, uh, so like getting engaged was kind of the thing that made me get out of that environment.

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And then after that, I just started, you know, looking into this stuff and realizing, uh, you know, and this was also like smack dab in the middle of 2020, where a lot of our eyes were being opened to a lot of things, uh, inside and out church.

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And so I, I kind of, my whole worldview changed in a way. So, you know, I don't do that this often.

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And in fact, I can't remember the last time I have, but I'm going to ask you since we're going to kind of be talking about leaders and their theology and doctrine, where do you land on your theology?

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Are you associated with a denomination? Um, give me, I think I might have an idea, but, um,

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I don't know where yet. Yeah. I, so I actually grew up Pentecostal, uh, oddly enough, and I, I have been over to many different kinds of churches.

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Like I, my first youth group that I spent a couple of years in was in a Methodist church. So I've kind of been all over the place, but most of my life,

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I had attended a Baptist church and now I am currently attending a Presbyterian church and my theology accompanies, uh, the

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Presbyterian church and it's a part of the CREC as well. Cool. So another Westminster brother here.

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So we're going to have fun today. Uh, that's awesome. Um, yeah, I was, I was the same way.

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I won't go too long into it because people have heard it before, but very legalistic, non -denominational kind of eighties

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Bill Gothard church when I was younger. And then into my preteens and teens, it was the swing the other way,

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Pentecostal where guys from Bethel came out and Chris, uh, what is the name? Chris valid. Valid time.

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You know what I'm talking about? Uh, the guy who works with Bill Johnson out at Bethel, he came and prophesied over me and my wife and stuff.

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It was like crazy, like in my early in my marriage. So I had quite a swing and I've experienced that too.

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Um, kind of like you have where you go, Oh wow. Yeah. I get a taste of this. So when I talk about Pentecostal charismatic, uh, when

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I talk about legalism and kind of like the King James only, uh, movement, when they're very legalistic, like I've experienced that I've lived in it,

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I know the doctrines, I know what they say you can, can't do. Um, you know, I had people come up to me in the

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Pentecostal church and say, Hey man, came in a Mazda, left in a Haas, let's go, you know, let's get talking in tongues. So I've experienced it all.

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So I have a little bit, although it's a logical fallacy to, uh, argue from authority. I have a little bit of authority to talk about those things because I've actually lived it and experienced it.

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Sounds like you have too. So this'll be fun. So what we wanted to do is just spend a few minutes on some names that we have that, that we're aware of that.

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I think some people might not be aware of. If you're listening to this podcast. Now, I probably would say you're aware of the

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Joel Oldsteins, the Steven Furtick's, the Kenneth Copeland's, um, these guys that really put themselves out there, extremely popular.

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And they just say some crazy things that do not align with the word of God at all. Yet they continue to be popular, rake in millions of dollars and, you know, grow churches, air quotes.

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Um, so what I wanted to do is maybe there's some off the beaten path or some up and comers that are getting popular or have a little, um, you know, have a, have a little bit of a following, um, a little bit of momentum, and maybe we can talk about them a little bit.

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Um, I said 10, we might not get to 10. Let's go through the list and see, but I would, I would love for you to start out in, in, and give me a name of someone that you've seen that you go look at.

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This is a market avoid. That's what we're doing here. And I want to clarify before we get into this. Um, the word judgment is really misused, kind of like the word love, right?

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Cody. I mean, as, as good reform Presbyterians too, we have to define every term and people do not judge, do not judge.

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In fact, um, that's not what Christ is saying. He's not saying don't be mean or don't make a judgment call. By you telling me not to judge, you've just judged, right?

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So we all judge. And I think you would agree. We're doing this from a seat of, um, you know, my name is, my name is

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Greg. And in the Greek, that means watchful one or guardian of truth, which I find hilarious because God knew exactly what he was doing.

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I have a heart of seeking after truth, guarding the truth, um, really seeking after justice and righteousness and making sure that, um, deceivers aren't deceiving.

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Right. And that's the place I think we're coming from here. I'm not saying I'm better than anyone. I'm depraved.

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I'm a sinner. I repent. I have corporate confession every Sunday and, and, uh, personal confession every day, believe me.

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But what I'm saying is if you're going to stand in the seat of shepherd, uh, first of all, go read Ezekiel 34.

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That'll really, if you're, if you're a shepherd, that'll really freak you out. What God says about leaders, not doing what he told them to do for his people.

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But, um, you have, you have a mantle, you have a responsibility to rightly divide the word of God.

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And when you're doing it, and it almost seems some of these guys are doing it on purpose to either gain followers or acceptance by the world, that's a serious matter.

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And some people don't really look into it. They'll see a quote or two from one of these guys on the list and go, oh, they're okay.

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Maybe listen to them. And you, you want to mark and avoid those. You don't want to get involved with people who can't even understand or rightly divide the basic truths of the word of God.

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Are you, is that kind of where you're at on this episode with me? Yeah. Yeah. And then I would also say the thing that I really like to hone in on, and like you said, maybe not all of these people are false teachers, but just people that, uh, at least

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I would recommending, uh, the people on my list that I would recommend avoiding anyway. And the thing that I especially look for in people to avoid, uh, if they're false teachers or not is if they compromise the word of God, um, usually intentionally in order to accommodate the culture in some way, because I think that very issue is the thing that's destroying the church in our country right now.

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And so if we want to like rebuild Christianity, uh, which we should, and we have to be willing to not compromise on those things that everybody else is compromising on.

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All right. So who do you have up first there for someone who it's that, uh, definition that you just had?

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Yeah. So this first person is somebody who, um, you know, maybe it's obvious to some people, maybe it's not, you know,

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I, I said something about Steven Furtick a couple of weeks ago on Instagram and so, and somebody was like, no,

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Steven Furtick's great. Like an otherwise solid, uh, conservative person that I thought. So like, I think people can still be fooled by people who are otherwise obvious to us.

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And so one like really obvious one on the list, but somebody that I think is worth talking about anyway is Andy Stanley.

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Uh, and some of the issues with Andy Stanley's well, one, like you said, he's a really huge, popular kind of mega church pastor.

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Um, he's a member of the SBC, I think I'm pretty sure. Yeah. He's, he's a member of the SBC. Um, his, his father was

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Charles Stanley. Who's a really big time, reputable preacher. He passed away recently. And the problem with Andy Stanley is that he is deeply embarrassed of scripture.

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And in, in a more obvious way, I think then a lot of these people that are going to be on our list, uh,

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Andy Stanley will actually admit that he's embarrassed of scripture. He's, he's famous for the line, uh, that we should unhitch the old

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Testament from the Bible because he thinks it's some just dusty old document. We should focus on Jesus and, uh, the words of Jesus and pretty much that's it.

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We should focus on love and nothing else. Like he does not teach that we should follow the commandments of God.

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He doesn't teach that yet. I mean, you know, unless the commandments are convenient for him to teach that we should follow, uh, um, really quick.

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Let me just interject because this is going to be a running theme. I think in some of our guys, you just said, Oh, just follow the words of Jesus.

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Love. That's the assumption they all make. It's just all love. And then it's like, well, let's define love. And then let's also look at all of the words of Jesus, which had, uh, very many different things attached to it, right?

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Repentance, uh, running away from wickedness, anger, uh, hypocrisy and calling that out.

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I mean, Jesus just didn't go around like a 1960s hippie and say, love is love.

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Love is, you know, let's define love and let's look at everything. And they don't do that. And Andy is one of those that doesn't do that.

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I have a few on my list that make the same mistake, but go on. And that is a, like a central element of the character of Jesus that these people misunderstand.

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If you believe that about Jesus, then one, like you don't kill a person for preaching just love.

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You know, Jesus was hated, uh, for a lot of reasons and it wasn't because he was such a nice guy.

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Um, but so yeah, Andy Stanley back in, back around 2020, he, uh, during some like BLM March or something that he participated in, which is a huge red flag.

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Um, he repented for being white. That's a famous thing that he did. That's ridiculous. You can, you can look all these things up.

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Um, he also very recently held a pro gay conference at his church. He he's kind of sneaky.

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Like, like, um, a lot of people are aware, you know, a person could say like, well, no,

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Andy Stanley doesn't support same sex marriage or homosexuality. He just thinks like, it's okay to be gay, but it's not okay to act on it.

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That kind of thing. And so like he invites, he invites gay Christians to his church who are not practicing homosexuals, even though I would say like, you know, they are practicing homosexuals if they're embracing that part of their identity.

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Um, so anyway, sure. Right. Yeah. If I'm unrepentant in my sexual sin in any way, even as a straight male,

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I'm, I'm a practicing fornicator. Yeah. Yeah. So Andy Stanley is compromised, I think with scripture in pretty much, uh, every way you can, but he,

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I think is, he's proud of it, uh, which is like one step further than I think a lot of people go where they're trying to be sneaky about it.

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Andy Stanley's not, he's just outright like, yeah, we need to abandon the parts of the Bible that does not comport with our culture.

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And I think that's, that's like the, uh, the epitome of like the, the issue with Christianity and our culture and why our nation is the way that it is.

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Yeah. So on that name, I would say absolutely. I've been watching him for probably five plus years, had an issue with the 2020 thing of repenting when he was white, started digging in a little bit.

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I was going to a church up until three years ago that was using the orange curriculum for their children, which is, uh, principle based and not

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Bible based. Okay. So it's kind of like love is love. Well, what is love? We're not defining it by the Bible. Uh, Andy Stanley endorsed that and helped write the orange curriculum and the, the, you know, the, the reading, uh, the recommended reading for leaders was like white fragility, uh, you know, um, all these kinds of anti -white, uh, race baiting books.

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I mean, that's what they were telling the Christian leaders to read in preparation to teach to the children. Went to my pastor on that and said, you know, this is where we're going to have to divide here because I can't, you know,

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I can't have my kids in a children's church that are teaching this. They basically said very nice and cordial about it.

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Said, look at, we spent a lot of money on it. That's what we're going with. Sorry. And we said, okay, we'll just have to part ways. And the Lord was, you know, leading us out of that church anyway.

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But just another way that Andy Stanley kind of has his tentacles in all these really woke kind of anti -white leftist liberal things.

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And I'll say this about Andy. He is within the reform community. Uh, everyone knows who he is and knows to stay away.

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But in the general public, he has probably gotten the furthest away from the gospel and still with the least amount of heat.

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I don't know how he does it because he looks very unassuming if you watch him, you know, I just want to love and, you know, very, almost very

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Joel Osteen a little bit, not quite as cheesy, but like, you know what I mean? Like you feel like, okay. And he knows how to kind of say something and then maybe walk it back a half step and you go, okay, is it right?

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But to the discerning Christian, the one that is living in the word every single day, they go, okay, we need to know what this mean.

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And this was three, four, five years ago. Now, in the last year and a half, two years with Andy, you can just about go on any sermon or anything he's saying, especially after his

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LGBTQ conference, where he had a open and out homosexuals coming in and saying, and trans people saying, this is how you raise your trans kids and how you raise your homosexual kids and accept them in the church.

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And no call for repentance, no call for actual guidance of the parents or anything like that. He's really out there now.

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So I would, I would agree with you on that. This is one to, to watch for those who might be more in the mainstream, big evangelical

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Christian. Maybe you're listening to this right now. And you go, what? Andy Stanley, I've saw a couple of clips of him. He's nice, assuming, you know, older gentlemen.

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Well, if you really go back and look at it, he is so far off the, off the base of the gospel.

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It really is sad. Yeah, totally agree. Yeah.

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That's a, that's pretty much all I have for Andy Stanley. So you can share your guidance. Okay. So I had one that I've had some interaction with on Twitter.

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He went from about 5 ,000 followers to, I think he's up over 42 ,000 followers on, on Twitter.

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Um, it's Zach Lambert. He's from restore Austin church in Austin, Texas, which right there, Austin. I don't know.

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That should probably tell you something there. They're kind of, you know, they're very, uh, liberal, uh, city within a more conservative state, but, um, just, just watch out for this guy because same way, this, this new wave of guys are coming in at very, um, accepting, inclusive love.

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Let, and this is a guy that's, I just want to follow the words of Jesus. And then he turns right back around and says things that are so anti Christ, anti Jesus, anti gospel.

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You go, well, what was that first statement about wanting to follow the words of Jesus? Um, he's essentially a deconstructed

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Christian pastor. I don't know how else to explain it. Every characteristic of someone who is deconstructed and hates religion and thinks

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God is just too bossy and ignores, you know, totally ignore the scriptures that say,

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I delight in your law. I delight in your precepts. Oh Lord. Um, and Christ's word saying those who love me will follow my commandments.

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Right. Um, he's, he's one of these guys that just so out there and he's picking up steam.

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He's really good at trying to platform himself as well, too, which kind of annoys me because, well, really annoys me because also it's like, he'll, he'll go retweet or find someone who, you know, in the, let's say more conservative

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Christian arena or someone he disagrees with that has a large following and just relentlessly retweet them and pick at them on insane things to where people following that other person go, you got to respond to this.

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And then once he does, now he's been platformed and it's this vicious cycle to where I even thought about not even saying his name here on the podcast.

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Not that I have some large following or anything, but at the same time, it's like, oh, it's so ridiculous, right?

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It's like platforming an insane man. And then it gives him some validity by even being responded to.

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Um, but you know, he gets, he gets political all the time. He's for open borders.

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He doesn't believe countries should have any type of sovereign borders. He says, Jesus was just an immigrant, an illegal immigrant himself.

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You know, that thing that we've heard, um, what posts a lot on X about, you know, how whites are privileged, they're oppressors yet he's white himself.

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And he's appointed himself the lead pastor of a church. Yeah. You know, I tweeted him and said, Hey, if you're really serious about that, then step down, give your pulpit to a minority then, but guess what he won't.

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Right. They never do because underneath all, all those that we should mark and avoid almost always there, there is a thick, thick, gooey layer of hypocrisy.

22:13

Um, and that is because they're saying one thing, doing another, including that. So I would say guys, if you come across them on the, on his

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YouTube stuff's blown up a little bit, his ex stuff is blown up. Just mark it a void. You can watch five minutes of it.

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And if you're a Bible believing Christian, you go, okay, this is someone I'm not going to recommend. Or if I have a friend that's listening to Zach Lambert sermon, or, uh,

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I wouldn't even call it a sermon as Ted talk, uh, let's, let's shut it off and turn them to someone else.

22:38

That's who I have for that. Number two. It is. It is seriously annoying for me to listen to any or read anything that guy writes to, but something you said made me think of something, uh, or a couple of things.

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One, if somebody's woke or if they like open the door to wokeness at all, like,

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I think that's a huge red flag and just automatically that makes it really easy to avoid a person because wokeness and, and all of the, you know, the, the things that comprise wokeness is, uh, to me, one of the most obvious things that, that one of the most obvious compromises with, um, biblical truth that we can possibly have.

23:13

It's like, that's, that's an easy one. Yeah. And Zach is an easy one. Cause he is out there on the front lines, uh, saying

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I'm an ally, you know, all that it's not very, uh, wolf in sheep's clothing. It is, he is, he's a, he's part of that woke movement.

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So a little more obvious on that point, but I was just saying not quite as popular. Some of the other ones that you have in mind, but one to one to watch and just, if you got a friend listening to it, go,

23:37

Hey, what's going on here? Well, who else you got though? Let's move along. Yeah. So another one is, uh,

23:43

Jackie Hill Perry. Uh, so vaguely familiar with this person. So I'm interested on this one.

23:50

Okay. So I've said a few things about Jackie Hill Perry. My Jackie Hill Perry videos are some of my most viewed

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YouTube videos. They're the most engaged with, and they are some of the nastiest comments

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I have ever received. Um, it is completely irrelevant that Jackie Hill Perry is black, but I have been called racist more times than I can count just because I criticize the theology of Jackie Hill Perry and it has nothing to do with her skin color.

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So Jackie Hill Perry is a lot of people think she's solid.

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Of course, uh, she, she's one of those people who like have been a respectable, uh, member of the evangelical elite community for a few years.

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Uh, she, she's black. Uh, she was the, she's an ex lesbian.

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Uh, so that kind of gives her some credibility too. She's currently married to a man. And so, you know, that's good.

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Praise the Lord that she's repented from that. And so she has written a lot of content on, you know, like that, like being an ex lesbian and that kind of thing.

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And she does Bible studies. And, um, even a church that I used to attend that was very closely associated with Midwestern Baptist theological seminary did a

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Bible study just like a couple of years ago on Jackie Hill Perry or from Jackie Hill Perry. And so here, here are the issues with Jackie Hill Perry.

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She is completely woke. Uh, and so, you know, like we've already said, that's a huge red flag.

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That's worthy of dropping somebody completely. Um, she is totally on board with critical race theory.

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She, um, she totally on board with social justice. She, uh, raps on her

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Instagram page, which is not a red flag by the way. But in one of her raps, she famously said that people who don't agree with CRT are going to go to hell.

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Uh, and also, yeah, it's, she has said some insane, crazy stuff, like really inflammatory.

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Um, and I think just the fact that she is this like token evangelical intersectional diversity hire, a lot of the stuff she says slides because people, you know,

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I can't criticize her because she's black kind of thing. Um, which is terrible because her, her theology is not good.

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You know, especially in 2020, whenever it became like, okay, to be blatantly woke, uh, in a lot of circles, like, you know, that's, that's when a lot of these people really came out.

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And so to Jackie Hill Perry and Jackie Hill Perry also is, uh, she's very like NAR adjacent.

26:17

She has signed up this year and it might've already happened to participate in a conference, uh, at Bethel church.

26:24

She hangs out with a lot of like the Bethel folks and the NAR folks. And so she is, um, bad news, uh, highly respected in the evangelical community.

26:33

And there's absolutely no reason for her to be. Yeah. Yeah. And for those listening, which

26:39

I'm sure many know, uh, NAR, the, uh, new apostolic reformation is what you're referencing there.

26:46

Those are the Uber Pentecostals, right. That appoint themselves the apostles over the new reformation in the very charismatic kind of Pentecostal continuation list movement.

26:59

Uh, uh, probably bill Johnson's the most popular. Um, who else do you have in there?

27:04

Uh, did you slip in my mind? But back in, when we had the Todd Bentley issue going on like eight or nine years ago, that's when that really started.

27:12

You know, they all brought him in a Wagner and, and all these different guys. And, uh, I mean,

27:18

I, I'm not going to go at length here on the NAR. You can look it up yourself if you're listening, but because I've talked about it at length many times in this podcast, but just absolute insanity with some of this grave soaking and Christian tarot cards and, uh, ain't

27:32

Jesus making personal visits in the flesh and gold falling from the ceiling and feathers appearing and teeth regrowing and all these things that can't be proved.

27:41

And, uh, you know, not, not, you know, not one. These things really happening.

27:47

That's cool. But like, none of these miracles are verified. There are a lot of such, like somebody would say, oh, my leg was healed.

27:53

And then you're just like, okay, show me the x -rays. And then they don't. And so like, none of this is ever verified and in, in the

27:58

Bethel community. Um, and then like in the, in the NAR world, there's a lot of like actual fake miracles.

28:05

Like Bethel did the thing where they put like glitter have fog machines and they say, this is the

28:10

Holy spirit cloud and stuff. So there's like, yeah, that they have verifiable fake miracles.

28:16

It makes you doubt all of the other miracles. Like why, why would you need to fake miracles? Uh, if, if you have more ones, you know?

28:22

So, yeah. And I would say, if you want to hear some stuff on NAR too, our brothers over at cultish did a really nice three part series on that included, uh, a girl who was, uh, in the school of ministry and pretty high up on the worship team there and kind of broke out of that.

28:37

And it was a couple of years old, but still holds up. So go check those guys out too. They've been on the podcast before.

28:42

And I love the brothers over at cultish, but, um, all right, so let's move on. Uh, absolutely. Uh, NAR on some of these two, mine, not so much

28:50

NAR cause I've talked about it, but I've noticed the other three of mine are really into the prosperity kind of name it and claim it, uh, gospel kind of movement too.

29:00

But the next one I have to probably another internet. So these guys, man, they love using Twitter and the internet to really push their thing.

29:07

But Dr. Kevin M young, he's a senior pastor at Jupiter first church in Florida. Uh, since 2017, he's just continued to, to drift left.

29:17

It really looked like in the mid aughts when he became an associate pastor with a mega church that kind of started his trajectory, but it's just.

29:25

This is one of these guys that tries to play it down the middle, but always shows his hands.

29:31

He, Hey, I'm just a moderate follow Jesus. Love everyone. And he says things like here's a, here's a

29:38

Twitter. Uh, here's one of his tweets, things that, things that can be, and still be a

29:43

Christian, the unchurched, the conservative, the liberal, the LGBTQ I, a, or plus the evangelical, the ex -evangelical progressive, the mega person affirming the nationalists, the

29:54

Democrat agnostic things that make you not a Christian, not being a Christian. And people said, well, explain what it, what is the definition of a

30:02

Christian then? And of course, uh, there was no definition. It's, it's always very, you know, he put a tweet out too, that says that the

30:10

Bible, uh, uh, is, is inspired is true, but not inherent.

30:16

The text is not inherent. Uh, so if anytime you see these red flags of going outside of Orthodox Christianity and then kind of putting their own thing on it, and here's the issue.

30:27

A lot of people get sucked in because he'll put out eight, nine, 10 tweets with, with doctor in front of his name.

30:33

People go, Ooh, a doctor. Okay. He's a scholar. Right. Uh, and, and they seem, uh, biblical and they seem like they're common sense.

30:42

And then if you look at some of the sub tweets or that 10th tweet, you go, Oh my gosh, his worldview, the foundation of his worldview is so anti -Bible.

30:51

I don't know how he's getting away with saying these other things that are that seem. So I, I would put him truly in a, in a wolf in sheep clothing, just because he's very, very good at presenting himself a certain way when his beliefs are the opposite.

31:08

Um, he's been actually the last year he's become a little more open, kind of like you were saying, Cody, how over the last two, three years, a lot of these guys that were closeted kind of wokest and leftists are really becoming more, uh, outspoken and they feel that the, that they can come out and go,

31:23

Oh no. Yeah. I'm full LGBTQ. I'm full, you know, uh, CRT I'm full.

31:29

And I suspect if we watch Kevin in the next year and a half, two years, he'll be full.

31:35

Yeah. That's, that's what I'm all for. So Kevin, uh, Kevin, I'm young. Just keep an eye out for him.

31:40

About a hundred thousand followers on Twitter has some posts on YouTube and Facebook. That have been gaining some traction.

31:46

So just, just watch out for him. Yeah. So the next guy that I have on my list might,

31:52

I mean, probably could be the most controversial. Um, I, well, and also he's passed away.

31:59

Uh, so maybe it's less controversial, but, uh, so I wouldn't call him an up and comer, but I think he's, he's somebody that a lot of people take very seriously and he's got a very good reputation.

32:11

Um, even still maybe one of the best reputations among evangelicals in the past a hundred years.

32:16

And this is Tim Keller. And before anybody kicks off, let me defend myself. So, so Tim Keller, I've, I've heard somebody say that, that nobody has pushed, uh, evangelicalism more left in their life than Tim Keller.

32:33

And I think, I think there's like three boats that you can fall into with Tim Keller. And one is like,

32:39

Tim Keller is awesome. There's nothing wrong with Tim Keller. He's like, why is he on this list? Yeah, right. He's, he's like the fourth member of the

32:45

Trinity, whatever. But I think, I think more reasonable people, they, they say things like, um, you know, yeah,

32:52

Tim Keller was good, you know, 20 years ago, 30 years ago, but he, he really fell off because he was getting sick and he had cancer.

32:58

So like the past few years before he died, he really fell off. Now I don't even think that's true.

33:04

I think that is a, a really sneaky deception, uh, not on behalf of those people who say that because they, they legitimately believe that, but like on behalf of the, the

33:15

Tim Keller kind of people, because, uh, the reality is

33:21

Tim Keller was leftist, uh, since like college. Um, Tim Keller. Okay.

33:26

We're, we're in the same group here. I think, are we both in the third group on Tim Keller? Okay, go ahead. Oh yeah, absolutely.

33:31

Yeah. Yeah. So I, I think Tim Keller has been bad for a long time. And in fact, I used to like Tim Keller.

33:38

I still have some Tim Keller books on my shelf. Yeah. And so like, I used to really respect this guy and respected his reputation and all that.

33:47

But then I realized in recent years, like, yeah, he was bad, but instead of saying like, well, no, back when

33:53

I liked him, he was good. I think that's kind of a lot of people say that. And I have included, um, say that because it's like,

34:00

I don't want to admit that I was wrong about this guy that I thought was good. And so instead I say like, well, he, he was good when

34:06

I liked him, but now that I don't like him, like he's bad now, but he changed. And my view is that bad, or my view is that good teachers don't become bad teachers.

34:16

If they're a good teacher, their theology is good enough to defend them from becoming a bad teacher. Right? So something in Tim Keller's theology had holes in it enough for him to fall as far as he did.

34:27

And so some, some of the things that Tim Keller did, he was a big proponent of third way ism, which, um, kind of like you said with the last guy, like very down the middle, really, he wasn't down the middle, but he pretended to be, um, really he was pushing

34:41

Christianity left. He was a registered Democrat, um, for like his whole life. Uh, he, he said like Christianity shouldn't be conservative or liberal.

34:49

It should be like this third way, you know, follow Jesus, that kind of thing again. And, uh, he defended

34:55

Marxism. He like was, uh, some of his favorite people in college, some of his most influential people were like actual

35:03

Marxist activists. And so I think that stuff became a part of Tim Keller's theology and it had been for a long time.

35:09

And that doesn't mean that he hasn't said some helpful things, but I think he's somebody that we, yeah, as, as evangelicals, you know, shouldn't respect, uh, as much as we do broadly.

35:19

Yeah. And you have to be very careful because here's what happened with Tim Keller. And I think you were kind of explaining this as his, the, his theology was, was pretty liberal, uh, out of, uh, out of school.

35:33

I mean, 35, 40 years ago, it just took him a lifetime of, you know, he started here and started moving where it took him a lifetime to get to where he ended is all it was.

35:45

He didn't flip overnight. His foundational worldview was always kind of left. I mean, you got to remember, he started the whole movement for, for the city, put the churches in for the city and for the urban and just, you know, in love, love, love, love, and no definition of what love is.

35:59

And when you say he helped evangelicalism, yeah, probably single -handedly, uh, 10 plus years ago,

36:06

I went to a church that modeled exactly what he was doing all 500 ,000 lives for the city with no plan on how to do it, how to preach it, how to, you know, what does that mean?

36:16

Just go out there and love. And once again, uh, an, an undefined, uh, definition of love is, is what these runoff of.

36:24

So I looked at Tim Keller as, you know, even 20 years ago, you would go and yes.

36:31

Yep. I had heard of Tim Keller 20 years ago. I'm showing my age, but, um, listening to it. Okay. There's, there's some stuff there that is correct, but the way he's presenting it or where he's coming from just doesn't seem.

36:42

And then by the time we gotten to, you know, the 2010s up until a few years last year, two years before his death, it was very put out a statement that seemed wildly left.

36:52

And then, you know, then, then recant it and re -explain it. It happened like once every two weeks,

36:58

I feel like with Tim on the internet, you know, all Christians should accept blah, blah, blah, and then pull it back.

37:04

Oh, what I really meant was, and he go, okay, what, what's going on here? So yeah, Tim Keller is one that you have to be very careful with what there's much truth in what he many truths.

37:14

And he was a great, uh, great preacher and book writer too. Like you said, you have some of his books, but one that I would probably say with the, with the plethora of men of God out there that are writing books and preaching, that's one that I could probably just put aside and go, well,

37:29

I'm going to, I'm going to look at those that are actually focusing on the word of God. Yeah. That was a good one. I didn't, I didn't remember you had that one on the list, but I'm glad you brought that one up.

37:38

Um, all right. Going, going right along here. Um, this one's that I just came across about a year ago.

37:44

His name's Keith craft, um, elevate life, uh, in Frisco, Texas. Um, he had a, uh, prophetic payday sermon that I saw,

37:53

I think Chris Rosenboro at fighting for the faith might've done like a little three or four minute thing on him.

37:58

And I, and I saw it there and just started clicking around and it's straight prosperity gospel.

38:04

I mean, he's gaining so much popularity, but basically said in his new year service that, you know, God's giving away jobs and healings and benefits.

38:12

All you have to do is see, start the seed here, plant the seed at the church. Thousand dollars, $5 ,000.

38:18

Right. And it's almost, I almost didn't want to bring his name up because there's so many of these guys.

38:24

It's so hard to keep track of them. And you're going to see, I have another one on the list that they've exported this to South Africa.

38:30

Okay. It's the prosperity gospel is a live and well, still, you would've thought the eighties and nineties would have choked it out.

38:36

You would've thought with the craziness of its godfather, Kenneth Copeland would have been like people go, Oh, this is nuts.

38:41

This guy is, you know, Satan in a suit. No, it's still growing. People still seem to think that they can purchase a blessing from the

38:51

Lord that, uh, thousands of dollars, $5, $10 ,000. It's always funny. Cause they start out at five and 10 and 20 and then quickly move up to, but if you want to give a hundred thousand, you know, we could use a second jet.

39:01

Um, but keep an eye on this guy because he goes into spurts. He'll have some, what seems to be solid

39:08

Christian teaching, but his foundation, once again, I think this is the running theme that you and I are talking about Cody. You can have these guys and you can watch one sermon, maybe 20 minutes long.

39:18

And you go, there's nothing said there that is, that is antichrist or unbiblical, right? In that little snippet, they could say something that lines up with scripture.

39:27

You go to the third, fourth, fifth, or you look at sermon, or you look at the foundation, what they believe in. It is so far off.

39:32

You go, oh, this is where the worldview is coming from. Keith craft is one of those. Make sure you avoid him. Um, he's popping up on Tik TOK and everything, all these like 40, 50 year old white preachers that get like a 19 year old intern.

39:45

And they're like, put me on Tik TOK. You know, um, we just, I don't know why I had to say old white preacher, but it just seems like that's, what's on Tik TOK.

39:52

Now it's like hire us a social media guy, get us a million views on Tik TOK. And really that's one of the reasons why

39:58

I wanted to do this too, is you got some, you got Jen, Jen, uh, Z out there that are 19, 20, 21, 22.

40:04

Just like how you and I were at that age, getting into the things of, of the word.

40:09

And then they're looking at Tik TOK and seeing this guy or that guy. And, and you just go market avoid.

40:15

So, um, Keith craft is, is my other one that we need to market avoid. Yeah. And here's a tip by the way, that ties into what you were saying.

40:22

When I discover a new teacher or when somebody tells me like, Hey, have you ever heard this guy's this guy preach or whatever?

40:29

Usually the very first thing I do is Google like, you know, teacher's name woke and materials online about him.

40:38

And like, if he's woke, there's going to be other, you know, like discernment bloggers and stuff talking about like, here's all the woke things he said.

40:44

And then, you know, we also have to use our discernment because sometimes there's like evidence and it's like, this person said that God loves black people.

40:52

So he's woke. And then, you know, we have to be like, no, that's true. If he said that, that's right. And so, um, but that's still very revelatory.

41:00

And so like, if, if we search for like teacher woke or like teacher prosperity gospel, I like to do that, you know, for like various things based on, um, you know, the kind of teacher that people send me just, just so I don't waste my time.

41:11

So I can make sure that the person I'm listening to actually doesn't have any massive, huge red flags. You know?

41:16

I would also say this though, too, really quick use discernment even in that, because there are people that will call certain people things and you read and you see what they're posting and none of it, none of it is matching what that person said versus their opinion of that person.

41:31

Because there's people that I follow and that I agree with that, uh, you can go search their name and people are writing blogs about, oh, they're this, they're that, and you go, well, that's not the truth.

41:41

So even, you know, don't, don't, uh, I would just say when you're, you know, some people like us who

41:46

I think we have a level of discernment, we seek after truth, make sure we're using that discernment and we're not in an echo chamber or we're trying to, uh, what, what am

41:54

I trying to say that we're trying to confirm our own suspicions, right? Our own thoughts by going, well, see two people posted about this guy.

42:01

He's a false teacher that write them off now, dig in. And I would advise the listeners dig in, do your research, use the

42:06

Bible, the scriptures, the dividing line, see what they're saying is if it is biblical and go from there. But that's a great point to do that.

42:13

Cody. Yeah. So who'd you have next? The last few people on my list, I'll just kind of lump them up into category.

42:21

Um, but we probably remember a couple of years ago, probably like the biggest

42:27

Christian news in the whole country was the Asbury revival. And there was, there were a certain kind of like, a lot of them were

42:34

Pentecostal ish. Um, very like, you know, spirit driven and, and being spirit driven is not a bad thing by the way.

42:41

But you're saying air quotes spirit driven in that sense of how the Pentecostal say are spirit driven, where there is no accountability or no scripture basis for the things they're doing, but saying the spirit is having them do it.

42:54

Yeah. And so a lot of people, they, they define spirit driven as this makes me feel good. And so therefore it must be spirit driven.

43:01

And so, uh, you know, looking back like the Asbury revival, um, you know, a lot of people weren't really sure at the time and it wasn't a revival.

43:08

Like there's the, the, the college of Asbury still teaches liberal theology and, and Asbury has not changed.

43:14

And sure. There was some really good things that came from that. Sure. Because God works wonders through all kinds of stuff all the time.

43:22

Sure. But, but a lot of the kind of people that were latching on to the Asbury revival and a lot of like the, um, you know, the people like flop it around on the floor.

43:32

Sometimes there wasn't a lot of that, but there was some of it, but a lot of the, um, like the demon hunter type people, they latched onto it and onto the

43:39

Asbury revival. And so there was even the movie, I think it was actually called demon hunters. Right. That just came out.

43:45

Um, I haven't seen it. What does that mean? It's well, there was the movie that came out called cessationist.

43:51

Um, right. You know, and we had, we had less on the show and, and, and stuff and talked about it.

43:57

Yeah. Less lampy. And so as kind of a response to that, there's this counter movement of continuationists.

44:04

And first I want to say real quick that I hate the word continuationists and cessationists just because, because what, what they try to make the debate about is about miracles, but I'm a cessationist and I believe miracles continue all the time.

44:19

It's not about miracles. It's about specific kind of gifts that I believe have ended. God can still heal people.

44:25

God can still, you know, God could do whatever he wants, but I don't believe that people have special healing powers anymore.

44:32

Especially when the people who do claim that they have healing powers, they don't actually look at Todd, Todd white shadow.

44:38

Is it healing anyone? Okay. This is an ax chapter four, right with Peter. So yeah,

44:44

I'm on board. Yep. Same thing with me. So go ahead. This, this is a huge movement and it kind of maybe was sparked by the

44:50

Asbury revival, but there's also the demon hunters movie. And so I want to tell people to be aware of this growing movement of very emotional, very spiritual.

45:02

And you know, not all of them are bad guys. Like one of the people who was involved in the demon hunter movie, if that's the correct name was pastor

45:09

Greg Locke. Yeah. And that's one of the people I had on my list. And he, Greg Locke's actually a super conservative guy.

45:15

Like he, he is used as like a religious contributor on Fox news. They interview him a lot or they used to, at least.

45:22

Yeah. He has a lot of good political opinions, but also Greg Locke is not a great guy.

45:28

Like he divorced his wife and he says, well, God wants me to do my ministry and therefore divorce is okay. And I'm going to marry this other girl that I was dating while I was married to my wife.

45:37

So it's like bad stuff. And so a lot of these guys, they might not be woke, but they're, they do compromise with scripture, which, which is like the key thing.

45:47

Wokeness is a compromise with scripture, but there's all kinds of other ways to compromise with scripture too. And one is, is by making this straw man, by saying like, look, all these, all these idiot people who read their

45:56

Bibles, they think miracles don't exist anymore. It's like, nobody says that nobody believes that miracles don't exist anymore.

46:02

That's not what a cessationist is. And, um, and this group of like really emotionally driven people who want to see, uh, like demons come out of people and flop around on the ground and whatever.

46:14

I think that's growing and it's really dangerous. Yeah. No, you're, you're so, you're so right.

46:21

And in, uh, misinterpreting that, uh, really is their game of saying, oh, well, you don't believe that, that, uh, you know,

46:29

God can heal and miracles will know, like you said, it's very specific gifts. The Lord has, um, healed two of my children when they were younger and it wasn't by some preacher or laying on of hands.

46:39

It was through fervent prayer. And, uh, the Lord waking me up at 2 AM in the morning and saying, just go pray for your daughter who hasn't said a word.

46:47

And she's almost five years old. She can't talk. And, you know, four days later, she's talking in whole sentences.

46:52

And I didn't know what I was praying. I didn't even know what it was for. I just went in and said, Lord, I love my daughter.

46:58

And, you know, you know why I'm praying for. And, uh, the Lord does what he wants to do.

47:03

He, he's in heaven and he does as he pleases. Right. As the scriptures say. So I absolutely do believe in healing and miracles.

47:09

I don't believe there's any, you know, a specific guy going around with a lightning in his finger that can grow out legs and, you know, all these things, um, that we see now.

47:19

And what a gross misrepresentation of scripture that is too. It's so disgusting. But, uh, yeah, Greg Locke was funnily enough, uh, was brought on my radar, uh, back in 2008 or nine, he was part of, uh, the, the elephant room or elephant series.

47:34

It was called, it was, uh, Mark Driscoll put it together and it was like a young Stephen Furtick, uh,

47:40

Platt was there. Um, I can't remember all the guys, but the funny thing was, it was like, it says it was called elephant room series.

47:47

And it was like, let's talk about all the things we disagree with the elephant in the room. And it was 12, 14 years ago now.

47:53

And it's so funny because, uh, it was, it was Platt and I don't know the one 10 out of the 10 pastors, uh,

48:02

Chandler was there out of the 10 pastors, all 10 of them are either divorced affair, uh, been taken out of their, uh, church, um, or started a new one because of, you know, heck the

48:13

McDowell was there. He's the guy who, uh, uh, you know, asked his brother to go find murder for hire for one of his, uh, deacons.

48:21

Like it's insane, dude. You just look at that back then, you know, 14 years ago, I was like, Ooh, this is a really good talk.

48:27

And they've actually taken the DVDs off the market and they won't sell them anymore. But, um, Greg was on one of those.

48:33

And I just remember his aura, not aura, that's a bad word, but just his persona of like, no one can really tell me in my church what to do.

48:42

It was that very like Mark Driscoll prideful. I'm the leader. And I just went, he's not saying anything wrong, but his attitude is telling me he's got a heart issue.

48:51

And I know that sounds judgmental to people listening, but I truly believe sometimes that's what discernment is.

48:57

Discernment is kind of reading between the lines and looking and saying, well, the words you're saying aren't wrong, but, or, or, you know, uh, anti Bible or anything, but the way you're presenting yourself, the way you're delivering it, maybe the things you aren't saying, right.

49:11

And that's where discernment comes in, in some of these guys too. And that was one where I went, I'll have to keep my eye on him.

49:17

And then lo and behold, everything you just said about it. I can't, I forgot that you're going to bring up that name, but it was like a blast from the past.

49:23

And he still has quite a following too right now. And we got to watch out for him. Yeah. All right.

49:29

I'm gonna finish it up here. Excuse me. I'm gonna finish it up here with, I don't, I do not know how these guys are getting so popular, but Johan de bear, he is a pastor and CE Cape town,

49:41

North Christ, uh, church in South Africa, and he's getting very popular on the internet over here.

49:46

So he's in South Africa. I don't know what it is. I think Americans love a guy with an accent too. We just think they're automatically smarter, right?

49:53

Like you hear some, someone from Britain in a British accent, you go, Oh, that sounds smart. And it's still dumb, but just, you know, because the accent prosperity gospel demon hunter, he's both of those very charismatic in South Africa.

50:07

He told, it's funny because if you go to his Facebook page right now, his tagline is, uh,

50:12

I'm Superman and Jesus is my hero. So I don't know what that even means. It's weird that you'd compare yourself to a comic book character and then say,

50:20

Jesus is my hero, but he's the Superman. I don't know. It's all very convoluted, but anyway, same thing. He told his congregants, there's a food crisis coming in South Africa.

50:29

If you don't tithe $10 ,000 or, or at least 50 % of what you have now, you're going to be affected.

50:35

You know, you're going to be affected by that food crisis. You won't eat, but if you do tithe, you'll be protected. The food crisis won't hit you.

50:41

So very prosperity in that message. Then also just totally skewing a new

50:46

Testament and revelations about antichrist and demons. And he casts out things. And he's one of these guys that if he's not stopped, he could be like another

50:54

Todd Bentley to where I could see him doing revivals over there and it catching on over here now.

51:00

Yeah. He's across across the way in Africa, but you know, the internet, there is no geographical lines for a bad theology.

51:08

Now, I mean, it gets over here, it gets on the internet and people are watching him. So watch out for Johan to bear.

51:14

Um, that one, I think is a little more obvious if you just watch him for any length of time. If you're watching a 30, that's another thing.

51:21

People will watch 30 to one minute snippets of some of these guys and go, what, what's going on?

51:27

But if you're actually listening to what they're saying and what, you know, an at length sermon or most of them, like I said,

51:33

TED talk, then you're seeing where they're actually coming in and really being far off the mark.

51:39

So I think that's our 10. Man, that was, that was awesome. I'm so glad that you were able to come on and we could talk about these.

51:46

I think it's a very important thing to make sure people are aware of this. Um, do you want to shift gears and do a quick segment of fresh 10?

51:53

And we learned 10 new things about you. I'm nervous, but yeah, okay. You, you, you don't know these questions.

52:00

Um, I'm going to pull them up right here. Let's see. Uh, here we go. Fresh 10.

52:09

All right, here we go.

52:18

To wrap up the episode, we're doing fresh 10 with Cody Lawrence. 10 fresh questions.

52:23

Rapid fire to get to know him a little bit more question. Number one, what city and state did you grow up in? And how did that affect your childhood?

52:31

Princeton, West Virginia. Uh, very country ish, very Bible belt grew up Pentecostal.

52:37

So there you go. Moved to Kansas city where I currently live now when I was 10 years old. Oh man.

52:43

How's the, uh, I hop situation going out there. Oh, I don't care. Is that other Kansas city is yeah.

52:49

Yeah. Yikes. Yeah. Okay. Sorry. We're getting off track. We're supposed to be fresh 10.

52:54

We talked enough theology. Okay. Number two, what's your favorite funny story to tell people, or maybe a funny joke or an icebreaker or something when you meet people or you're in friend around friends, uh, something funny to tell them.

53:07

Oh man. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I don't, I don't share the story often, but it is really funny.

53:13

I used to for like a very, I used to busk as a magician. I was like a street magician.

53:19

I did it as a high. Heart card tricks and stuff. And I, um, somehow got the card of, uh, or somebody got my card, a black preacher from like an all black, really

53:32

Pentecostal church kind of ties into what we were talking about. And it was, uh, and they wanted to hire me to do a magic performance at a

53:39

Christmas show or at like a Christmas celebration that they were at Christmas party doing.

53:44

And, uh, when I got there to do this, this magic show, they had canceled the

53:50

Christmas party because a member of the church had died. And instead they were doing like a funeral slash memorial service for the person.

53:57

And so I showed up and the pastor was really apologetic. And he, he wanted me to come, you know, like,

54:03

Hey, come meet with us. Come sit. And people wanted to see magic anyway. So no way you had to imagine short of funeral.

54:09

So technically my first professional magic gig, uh, was at a funeral at a black church.

54:16

It was great. What a horrible setup, man. I would just feel like you just die a thousand deaths.

54:22

Like you're trying to be all upbeat and do magic. And people are like, dude, there's a dead guy over there in a coffin. What's going on?

54:28

It was a good day and they loved it and it was great. Okay. All right. Cool. All right. Question number three.

54:34

Are you, you're, you're going back in time. You're in the, uh, DeLorean, the flux capacitor. Are you going back in time to visit your great, great, great grandfather?

54:43

Are you going forward in time to visit your great, great, great grandkids? Oh, gosh. Well, I don't know.

54:49

I'm a plus millennial. So probably I would travel into the future to see how much better things get. That's where all the postmills go, baby.

54:55

Doug Wilson said the same thing. So you're in, you're, you're in good company there. All right. Question number four.

55:01

Uh, what's something people would be surprised to know about you? Maybe a hobby, a talent.

55:08

You already revealed you were a magician, but you know, something surprised to know about you. I used to do this or that.

55:15

Yeah. That would totally be the thing I would share being a magician. Um, but other than that, I, I used to draw a lot and I'm attempting to improve my drawing skills again, cause it's been years, but yeah,

55:29

I used to, I used to draw, um, and I was probably decent. People said I was got an artiste on the show.

55:36

I like it. All right. Number five, uh, top three bands or music albums that have influenced your life the most.

55:45

Man, tough questions. Uh, it can be an album. It can be a song. It can be just the band in general, just that you've went, you know,

55:53

I've, I've listened to multiple times or I really, you know, maybe influenced in the way of like musically or, you know, the way you think about things just to have had an impact on your life.

56:02

Three of them. Yeah. I have a really kind of narrow amount of music that I listened to whenever I find an album,

56:07

I just listen to that one album or that one artist. And so I probably like the artist that's been most influential to me over, like,

56:14

I don't know, the past 10 years of my life is owl city. I love like electronic kind of, uh, bouncy kind of happy music.

56:25

And I think owl city is a good representation of that. And I've listened to all of his albums. Uh, so yeah.

56:32

Nice. All right. Question number, what are we on? Six favorite thing to do when you just want to relax.

56:39

Video games. Nice. What are you playing? Video games or read? Um, I, I, a lot of like indie games, uh, just like random little things.

56:51

Nothing, nothing major. I think, um, yeah, that's, that's pretty much it. Yeah. When I was like, not a lot of really good big games come out, uh, anymore.

57:00

And so I usually play the indie games. I early in my twenties, uh,

57:05

I, I got addicted to rainbow six on anything, an Xbox one for like a 24 hour period where I didn't even sleep.

57:12

And it was like two o 'clock in the morning. I just took it and I threw it out in the middle of the road and smashed it. And I went, yeah, this is not gonna,

57:19

I can't do this. I'm so I have such an addictive personality and so competitive. And I've never looked back on video games.

57:24

I might, you know, jump on my phone and do something for a couple of minutes, but can't do it, man. I would, I would be sucked in and I would get nothing accomplished.

57:31

I would be one of those guys. So I got, for me, that's something the Lord says you got to stay away from. Can't do video games, even though I'd probably love to.

57:38

I was never a big Xbox guy. I played more like role -playing games and that kind of thing. And so I enjoy those still. Nice.

57:45

Uh, number seven, moving right along. What do people misunderstand about you the most? What's something where they assume something about you and you go,

57:52

Hey, that ain't true. That ain't me. Yeah. Sometimes, uh, well, like the last church

57:58

I attended, they listened to my podcast and it was a church that was really heavily associated with the

58:04

SBC. Like I said, in Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary. And I, you know, criticize the

58:09

SBC. And so I was perceived by some people in the church as, uh, like,

58:16

Oh, sorry. Unkind. There you go. That's our heresy button.

58:25

So like, I don't, I don't give grace to people and, you know, that kind of thing. I think people, people who don't know me think

58:32

I'm much rougher of a person than I actually am. It's like, no, I'm, uh, yeah.

58:38

Yeah. I get it. Question number eight, if you can sit down for a cup of coffee with any historical figure outside of Christ, who would it be?

58:45

And why? Oh gosh. Um, Ooh, yeah, that's well sort of easy either.

58:50

It's probably cliche, either CS Lewis or GK Chesterton, just cause they're such big thinkers.

58:55

And I bet they would be a blast to talk to both of them. I think I would, I would probably lean

59:02

Lewis, but GK is a close second. That is a good one. Yeah. I feel like GK would probably be more fun to talk to, but CS Lewis would probably be a better conversation.

59:12

You're exactly right. Cool. Number nine. What is a movie you've watched multiple times? I used to ask what's your favorite movie and people couldn't answer that.

59:21

So then I changed it to what's a movie you could just put on multiple times. You've seen it and you just go, yeah, I'm gonna watch it again. Yep. I hate rewatching movies, but I have strong feelings about this.

59:30

There was a movie that just came out, like, I think a couple of years ago. It's on Netflix. It's called RRR and it is a, uh, it's an

59:37

Indian movie. It's like a Bollywood type movie, which normally would be really cheesy and awful, but it is one of the most fun action movies.

59:44

It's got like a really awesome brotherly friendship. There's no woke stuff, no gay stuff. It is.

59:49

It's just like an awesome action movie. It's manly. There's it's great.

59:56

It's fantastic. Three letter R's R R R. Yes. Okay. There is. It stands for rise revolt.

01:00:03

I don't know. But yeah, three hours. It's well, I have to check it out now. It's fantastic.

01:00:09

There you go. We got a movie review too. Okay. Last question for fresh 10. What is a book outside of the

01:00:15

Bible that everyone should read that everyone should pick up, take a look at and, and a thumb through and read.

01:00:23

My wife and I buy multiple copies of books that we want to give to people if they don't have them.

01:00:29

And the one that we do probably the most is a mere Christianity by CS Lewis. But other than that,

01:00:36

I think everybody should read the space trilogy by CS Lewis and specifically the last one that hideous strength, which

01:00:45

I think most people, the first time I read it, I didn't really like it because it was so different than the other two. But I think now it's the, it's the very best one.

01:00:52

So you should definitely read it. Uh, that hideous strength. Yeah. You know, what's crazy is

01:00:58

I've read mere Christianity probably five or six times. The first time I read it through back to back twice, because it was so much to chew on and copy on screw tape letters, probably five times, never that trilogy.

01:01:11

And I have, and I have it on my shelf. So I'm going to, I have to get to it. Yeah. My wife read it and said, you have to read this.

01:01:17

You're telling me I have to read it. Now I have to read it. That's good. All right. There we go. That was 10 fresh questions with Cody Lawrence.

01:01:27

Oh, hold on. Hold on. Let's try that again. That's a, there we go. There we have it. 10 fresh questions with Cody Lawrence.

01:01:46

All right, man. Thanks so much for being on Cody. We're going to wrap this up. Give everyone a shout out where they can get ahold of you. Listen to your podcast, connect with you on social media, and we'll make sure we link those up guys in the description so you can click on them and check them out.

01:01:58

Yeah, I am on all of the audio platforms. You can just look up Spare No Arrows.

01:02:04

I'm also on YouTube under Spare No Arrows. Instagram, if you want to interact with me, Spare No Arrows with underscores between all the words.

01:02:13

I also have a website that I'm currently developing and trying to populate with articles called retake .church

01:02:19

that, you know, depending on how many contributors I get and how much it goes, you know, might potentially be some kind of competition for gospel coalition one day, 20 years in the future.

01:02:28

But for now, it's just kind of like a personal blog and whoever else wants to write on it. So hopefully there's good stuff there and you should check that out too.

01:02:35

Awesome guys. Like I said, we'll link it up so you can click on it on this episode here. Or if you're watching it on YouTube or any other places where the video podcast is available.

01:02:43

Guys, thanks so much for listening to another episode of Dead Men Walking Podcast. We appreciate you bringing this type of content.

01:02:49

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01:02:57

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