Pillar’s Conference Q&A (Part 2)

Welcome to No Compromise Radio Ministry. My name is Mike Avendroth, and as promised, today's part two question and answer series we did during Sunday school at the

Pillars Conference, Community Bible Church. I don't think it's in Beloit. I've been saying

Beloit the whole time. John lives in Beloit. I think this is in Alliance, Alliance, Ohio.

I did ride my bicycle for a couple hours. Actually, it's John's son's bicycle,

Will's bike, and it was a Trek. It's a hardtail mountain bike, and I just rode it on the street for 24 miles.

It took me a couple hours. Forgot how hard riding mountain bikes on the street are.

Today is part two of the quiz, no, of the Q &A at Beloit, Alliance, somewhere out there in Ohio.

All right. Well, we did get some questions from the congregation, so I appreciate you taking the time to do that.

We'll get into some of these and see what happens with the inquiry that has been made.

All right. Well, here's one. I know

Johnny Mac is a dispensationalist, but are we really going to throw the baby out with the bathwater and disregard his other good books and sermons, his radio messages on the family are one of the best things

I've ever listened to? So, how would you respond to that?

Amen. How about that? Try to be discerning about all things, so there's that.

I've learned so much from John MacArthur. I kind of look at him sort of like my dad, so I know some faults that I think are false.

So, I have some criticisms, but if you criticize him, I'm going to punch you. I mean, that's an overstatement, but I'm pretty protective.

I go out of my way to not say negative things about John MacArthur. So, I think that's just been my practice.

So, in the Covenant Theology book that I wrote, I only reference him positively. In the

Act of Obedience book that just came out, I only reference him positively. So, I'll say all that plain and simple.

I am concerned with people who somehow put more stock in trade. They have more confidence and trust in any fallen human being more than the

Bible. So, are you going to let Scripture interpret Scripture to figure out the meaning of the

Old Testament, or are you going to use the MacArthur Study Bible notes to figure out the meaning of the

Old Testament, which John MacArthur did not write? The faculty of the seminary wrote as dispensationalists.

Things like that. Also, I have been part of the

John MacArthur cult, and here's what I mean. I'll follow my own sword. So, when

John MacArthur used to deny the eternal sonship of Jesus, because he did with passion and boldness and Bible verses,

I, too, then denied the eternal sonship of Jesus because John MacArthur knows the

Bible. And then John MacArthur changed his view and adopted the historic confessional biblical

Christian view and said, of course I believe the eternal sonship of Jesus. And so, as a good cult follower,

I, too, changed my view because it's the biblical view. So, just be careful about trusting anyone too much because it's just not a good look to do that.

We have to trust pastors. We're called to do that. But just be careful, and maybe if I could give a plug for historical theology, confessional theology.

If you read any historic confession that is water under the bridge, they all affirm the eternal sonship of Jesus, probably for good reason.

So, maybe we should pay more attention to our Bibles and more attention to historic confessional

Christianity, which means agreed upon Christianity, than we do any radio

Bible teacher, including John Tucker. Amen. The question is almost set up for us to fail regarding that, and here's what

I mean by that. If I'm not a dispensationalist, and I'm not, and John MacArthur is, and he is, then somehow

I don't like John MacArthur because I'm not a dispensationalist, and he is. It doesn't really work for me.

I don't think the Lord has used anyone else in my life outside of my wife when I was a brand new

Christian to influence me. I am so indebted and grateful to the Lord for the ministry of John MacArthur, and my son met with him a couple weeks ago to get some advice when

I was in the hospital dying of COVID. He calls my wife in praise. I love

John MacArthur. I love the ministry there, but am I allowed to disagree with anything?

Because if I'm not, then something's wrong, and so we want to be people that examine the scriptures and look and learn, and so have

I learned a high view of preaching from John MacArthur? Yes. Have I learned boldness in the pulpit from John MacArthur?

Yes, and I could go through the entire list, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with every single thing, and so sometimes people say functionally they act like it's

MacArthur's doctrines, and if you disagree, then somehow you're aberrant, and you're no good or whatever. That's just not the way we should do things, so think about how you study your

Bible. There's a Bible problem in your interpretation. Who do you look to?

Who's your final authority? For me, sometimes it used to be, well, the MacArthur Study Bible, and now

I'll say, well, how has the church over time with the Holy Spirit involved dealt with this issue?

How have a group of 240 men at the Westminster Assembly dealt with this versus just one person?

And so I, and maybe I've misunderstood the question, but I don't like you to get pegged for someone who throws out the ministry of John MacArthur because I disagree with him on a certain topic.

If there are 900 Bible topics, do we all have to agree on all 900 to minister together?

I mean, I guess my wife and I are in big trouble because you wouldn't know she disagrees with me on certain topics, but she does.

So all that to say, I'm not throwing out John MacArthur's ministry at all, and I don't think any of us are, and you can learn a lot from people, and you just need to realize, as R .C.

Sproul would say, no one on earth because of the fall has more than 80 % of their theology right.

Think about that, and can't you go through church history and find things that you don't like in every single person?

Luther, isn't Luther awesome in this, this, this, and this, and in the area over here? We disagree.

What about Calvin? What about Knox? What about Zwingli? What about Bovink? What about Turreton? The list goes on and on and on, so that's why we want you to have your

Bibles open and study because you have it right there, and so that makes sense. Great, yeah, good answer, great answer.

Another question, this is a question about fear. The question is, would you expand, explain fear, meaning the believer's fear versus the unbeliever, and it goes on to kind of give context,

I think. The reality, the earth as it is now will bring us troubles, heartache, sorrow, and pain.

How do we handle the adversities in whatever form that brings God, brings

God glory and rest to our souls even in pain? I don't like that question either.

Let's go to the next one. I never liked it when a speaker would say, you know, that's a good question.

Read chapter so -and -so in my book. Well, you know, that's a good question. My cancer book has a chapter on the fear of the

Lord. So, the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, and you'll see that refrain in Scripture. Matter of fact, the center theologically of Job is chapter 28 about wisdom, and the fear of the

Lord is wisdom. Here's the key when it comes to that. Your relationship to the one who created you will determine what kind of fear you have.

For an unbeliever, is it a fearful thing to fall into the hands of a living God? I mean, it is scary. You should be frightened.

Phobos, phobia. But what about a Christian? Should you be afraid with the same kind of fear?

So, what Martin Luther did, speaking of Luther, he said there's two kinds of fear. A servile fear, an unbeliever's fear.

I am a created being, and I don't measure up to the law of God, and I'm afraid because the wages of sin is death. God punishes sin.

But then, because of the mediator, the Lord Jesus, we have a relationship with the Lord now that's different.

We're friends. We're sons. We're children. We're daughters. And so, we don't have a fear that's a servile fear.

We have a fear that's a filial fear, a Latin for sons. And you ought to say to yourself, well,

Mike, you ought to say daughters all the time, too. Don't read the Bible like a feminist. You women need to be thought of as sons of God.

Sons. Because guess what privilege the sons got back in the Old Testament compared to daughters?

How would you like to have the sons' privilege even as a daughter? Of course daughters are children of God, but the text talks about sons.

So, we as Christians now ought not to cringe before our Heavenly Father.

He might discipline us, but that's out of love. So, we fear the Lord in a way different way than an unbeliever does.

And that fear is our Father is so great, we want to honor Him, esteem Him, be in awe of Him, speak well of Him, and do what

He says for His glory and for our good. We are not slavish fear people as Christians.

If you're here today and you're not a Christian, you ought not to fall asleep tonight. You ought to be shaking in your boots thinking,

I have to answer for all my sins, and I'm going to live in eternal fire forever and ever in the presence of God without a mediator.

And my only hope is trust in the Lord Jesus. But if you're a Christian, you ought not to be afraid of God in the sense that He's going to damn you if you sin.

Those sins have been paid for, have they not? And then you respond out of gratitude. Servile fear, filial fear.

We serve God now out of love and respect and gratitude because He's so great.

Great answer. Good answer. Pat, anything else? Good. All right.

Very good. Another question that we received. Knowing that God is sovereign in our lives and knowing that He is our shepherd by the circumstances of our past lives, how do we recognize

His will for our future and find assurance that we are truly in accordance with that will?

Pray. Pray and trust, right? So how do

I know if I'm doing God's will? Obviously, we would want to say, what does the Bible say about morality?

What does the Bible say about what I'm supposed to do on earth? What's right Christian behavior? So those are priorities for me.

I want to try to do the right thing, and I want to love my neighbor, and I want to love God, and I want to do things that are helpful for other people.

I want to serve in the church. But then there are so many other things. Now what?

Who should I marry? Where should I go to school? Where should I retire? What church should

I go to? Maybe that's easier. You pray for wisdom. So if the Bible had the answer to every question, you would not pray.

I wouldn't. Why would I say, God, tell me your will for who to marry when it says in the Bible, marry

Molly in 1991? And I wouldn't feel very dependent.

I wouldn't. I just wouldn't. So there's so many things we just don't know, and part of it is the joy of realizing that there's mystery.

I know the Bible says that God causes all things to work together for good for those who love

Him and those who have been called according to His purposes. But exactly how He does it?

Cue the mystery music. God is mysterious. How can He do it? I don't know.

I feel compelled to worship Him because I don't understand Him. I don't understand how

He could do this, but I know that He does. And so know what the Bible teaches the best you can, and then go for it.

To use a great teaching from John MacArthur, I learned from him, Psalm 37 .4

says, delight yourself in the Lord, and He will give you the desires of your heart.

So we should work hard at delighting ourselves in the Lord, and then we should do what we want.

Because if we're delighting ourselves in the Lord, He's working in our lives, and He's transforming us and conforming us into the image of His Son.

So we have good affections, good desires. So we just do what we want to do after that would be what

I learned from him about that. There it is. Yesterday, I was out on a bike ride, and I was supposed to go 30 -some miles, and I'm like 20 -some in, and the sun's going down, and I'm getting kind of nervous and thinking,

I don't know where in the world I am. My bike computer just keeps telling me to turn here, turn here. Should I go back or not?

And so I asked the Lord, and He told me. No, I didn't. Right?

It's just like, I just had to make a decision. I thought, okay, I guess I'm just going back.

Then I did think to myself, what if now that I'm on this busier road, I get hit by a car right now, and I made the wrong decision?

Whereas if I would have kept riding the 30 -some miles, I would have, right? Just get over it. Just don't overthink things.

Trust in the Lord and pray. Good answer. Yeah. Great little book,

Kevin DeYoung, Just Do Something, right? Because you can become paralyzed as a cessationist, not hearing from God.

You don't know what to do, or you could become a charismatic wanting to try to interpret science and everything else, and so just do something.

I think that's a good book. Great. Another question, and something that's been a common theme in both of your ministries, you often speak to the issue of assurance and the act of obedience of Jesus Christ.

Pat, in your book on covenant theology, one of the appendices is about the act of obedience.

Now you've written another book, and it's all about act of obedience. Mike, a common theme in your books are related to assurance, and I just wanted the two of you to talk about why the emphasis in those two areas.

Maybe the emphasis is there because I need it, but kidding aside, let me start with a question to you all.

Is assurance something that should be there for the Christian at the very beginning of their

Christian experience? And the answer is yes. Absolutely.

And it's kind of astounding if you stop to think of it in those terms. Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God.

Wow. You know, Romans 5, Romans 8. By faith, so when

I trust in Jesus, I'm justified, and I have peace. I mean, it's settled.

I couldn't get any more saved. And maybe I like to emphasize assurance so much because I think that's just awesome.

That's almost seemingly impossible. I mean, how great is the

Lord Jesus if He, by His perfect obedience and His perfect crosswork and His perfect resurrection, can have

Pat Abendroth, a sinner, perfect in the eyes of God? It's absolutely amazing.

That's what worship, that drives worship, that drives trust, that drives so much.

And the scandal, it's so scandalous that the Roman Catholic Church officially on the books,

Council of Trent, anathematizes assurance. You cannot have assurance unless you receive direct revelation from God as a special kind of person.

So that should tell us something. That gets our attention. It makes me want to study it. Christians can have assurance.

By definition, Christians do have assurance. At the very beginning. Yes, fruit comes.

Yes, there's secondary assurance that can come, that God's working in my life. I have signs of regeneration in my life.

But if you're really a Christian at the very beginning, absolutely amazing. Why emphasize it?

Maybe because for a lot of my Christian life, I didn't know it. Maybe for a lot of my

Christian experience, a lot of teachers don't emphasize it. And therefore, I think they're robbing

Christians of the delight and joy of having peace with God now.

And how about this? I actually think Christians would behave better for the right reasons and be motivated to do the right thing for the right reasons if they actually understood this.

You have peace with God. Now you're justified. Now do the right thing out of gratitude.

Right? So we have that guilt, grace, gratitude, like Christians have been saying for a long time now. Guilt. God's law shows you your guilt.

And then you see Christ and he fulfills the responsibility for you. Active obedience, passive obedience, his whole work.

Now you have gratitude or excuse me, guilt, grace in Christ. Next is going to be grace. You need grace from Christ.

He meets the obligation. And then now we want to do the right thing. We want to obey the law out of gratitude.

It's totally different. It's a game changer. We're in the family. We are sons. So I'm going to keep emphasizing it because I think we'll see

Jesus as the great Savior that he is because he doesn't save us 50%. He doesn't save us 90%, 99 .9%.

He saves us entirely, utterly, completely to the point where justification is a present reality in him.

Great. Well said. Mike? I think for years as a pastor, my tenor was, and tone was, you call yourself a

Christian, but you've been living crazy lives this week. How can you call yourself a Christian? Assuming that the congregation was full of unregenerate people.

I read the whole Christ by Sinclair Ferguson. I read a book called Why Johnny Can't Preach by T.

David Gordon. I began studying the book of Hebrews. There was kind of a theological revolution, and that revolution was

Christian sin. And Jesus died for the sins of Christians too.

Did you know Jesus died for the sins of Christians too? And if you think you stand before God because you don't really sin that much, you've really lowered the law of God thinking that somehow you can achieve the law of God, and that's called self -righteousness.

And Luther said every Sunday, I preach against self -righteousness because it's such an enemy for Christians. Somehow we stand before God because we lived a holy life this week, and we were nice to our spouses, and we evangelized someone.

So I thought to myself after I got cancer the first time, I would sit by myself in my basement thinking, crying, wondering, worrying.

I'm thinking, you know what? I'm not as righteous as I thought I was. Something about suffering, and sickness, and death, and hardship, it cuts through the veneer and the shellac of just nothingness.

And I thought if I need to be reminded of the righteousness of the Lord Jesus, the congregation does too.

Why am I giving them a beat down every single Sunday? Now we preach to convict people, preach the word in season, out of season, reprove, rebuke, exhort.

Exhort is comfort, the key word there. So I thought if I need encouragement that I'm still righteous in God's eyes because of the

Lord Jesus, and I can't lose my salvation even though I'm sinning and worrying, if I need that, the

Lord knows the church needs that. So I began to preach in a different way, and the Reformers would call that a means of grace.

When you come to the worship service, it's not just a beat down. It's to be reminded here's who

Jesus is. And by the way, can you imagine He still loves you? I know you sinned this week. Why do you think we have communion on a regular basis?

What does communion tell us? Salvation is outside of you.

It's been done for you. You receive it simply by faith and by faith alone. It has nothing to do with you.

It's Jesus paid it all. He said it is finished. So then I thought I need to start preaching to Christians to encourage them.

In the old days I thought I'm John the Baptist, I'm Jeremiah. You're going to come in and you're going to go, I'm not even a Christian after that sermon.

That's bad preaching. Conviction is good, but then we give the balm of assurance after.

The balm of the Lord Jesus, who's gentle and lowly. In the 89 chapters of the Gospels, we don't know anything about His heart except He says,

I'm gentle and lowly in heart. And so if you discipline a child afterwards, don't you love them and say everything's fine?

So that's exactly what we do when it comes to preaching. There's a conviction. Yes, we sin, but then we give them the balm of assurance.

So why is that a theme in my book? Because I need it, the

Church needs it, and it's essential because if you don't have assurance of faith, what you're doing in your

Christian life is running around trying to find assurance. How can you get anything else done? Chair ministry, singing, anything else, if you don't know if you're right with God?

So we regularly need to proclaim the truth. Here's who Jesus is. You're right with God even though you sin this week.

I mean, think about it. How'd your week go? Could you tell me about your prayer life this week?

How was it? Did anyone here evangelize one person this week?

How's your Bible study? Men, did you sit down five days this week and lead your family in worship?

And the list goes on and on and on, and probably some of you have done that. But if you didn't do it, how could you call yourself a

Christian? After all these years, 10 years you've been a Christian, 20 years, 30 years, how can you call yourself a

Christian and live like that? The thoughts that you have about the opposite sex, you see somebody walk by, you think you're a

Christian? Do you like that kind of preaching? If it ends there,

I think that's bad preaching. Conviction is fine, but we need to remind people there is someone who prayed enough.

There is somebody who studied their Bible enough. There is somebody who loved God and loved neighbor enough. That's why he came, because we could never do it.

And even as Christians, we need Jesus because Jesus died for the sins of Christians too. Amen.

Well said. Well said. Well, thank you guys. We're out of time. And if you had a question and it wasn't asked, just corner

Mike and Pat and browbeat them, and we'll let you take care of it that way.

So we just appreciate these men coming and being a part of this. It's always an encouragement to me. I'm sure it's an encouragement to you.

I hope it is. I'm looking forward to having them back next year, Lord willing. We've already begun to talk about what that might look like and some of the themes and topics for that.

So in your minds, begin to kind of mark off some type of a timeframe in April or May next year.

Maybe we'll move it a little bit further into the spring just so we can have better weather. We can actually go ride motorcycles or play golf or something.

I forgot to tell you, John, my booking agent has changed. So I'll give you the information. Yeah. We did have the right water for you in the car this time, didn't we?

But we did forget the green M &Ms. I'm sorry for that. And was the temperature of the limo okay for you?

Was it? I'm sorry, Pat. We'll work harder on that. Do you know there are plenty of pastors and Christian leaders that require a certain amount of money before they come speak at your church, require assistance being brought, only eating at Outback Steakhouse?

We're talking $5 ,000, $10 ,000, $20 ,000. It's amazing. So Mike and Pat are very gracious.

We've enjoyed hosting them. It's always fun. And I enjoy having them at the house. So looking forward to that again next year,

Lord willing. So let's pray and we'll be dismissed. Lord, we love you. Thank you for this time together. It's just so wonderful as the redeemed of Christ to be surrounded by other believers and faithful pastors to be encouraged and exhorted.

We appreciate their hearts for the Lord and for their concern for the body of Christ. And thank you,

Lord, for their concern for the body here at Community Bible Church. In your good providence, you brought them into my life and as a consequence into the life of this church.

We've been blessed and we thank you for that. Bless and keep them. We pray for Mike and his health.

We pray that you would continue to bring restoration and healing, give the doctors wisdom as they work with him, encourage his family in that regard as well.

Thank you, Lord, for his faithfulness even in the face of these unique challenges. Thank you for Pat. Thank you for his zeal, for his mind, his heart for Christ, and his concern for the truth and his willingness to make a sacrifice of time to be here this week away from his home church and family.

Thank you for the good books that these men write. Thank you for giving them the gift to do that and the ability to communicate these very important truths for your church.

We praise you for these men and for the time we have with them. Bless this day to your glory and to your honor.

In Christ's name we pray. Amen. Well, that wraps up the Q &A. Alliance Ohio, Community Bible Church, John Tucker, Mike Abendroth, Pat Abendroth.

You can get my books at amazon .com, Cancer Is Not Your Shepherd. It is out, 31 -day guide.

I wrote the first 16 days. The last 16, 15 days are from Thomas Watson, Thomas Brooks, and some of those guys.

you need bulk, that is 10 or more, you can email me, Mike, at nocompromiseradio .com.