Next Week | Should We Torture People? | Episode 4

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00:00

Good evening. I am Chris Weinland, and you are watching Next Week with Jeff Durbin, and we are going to be talking about torture today.

00:08

So somebody had the idea that we should have me torture myself with peppers and hot peppers.

00:18

Every minute that you guys share this episode, I am going to eat another pepper.

00:24

So we are going to start with the first one. Red bell pepper.

00:30

It's terrifying, as you can see. Everybody should be, anything with a little barcode is just scary.

00:37

So here we go. Ah, it's hot. So far

00:43

I love this five -minute challenge. This is fantastic. Go ahead and share.

00:49

If you get enough shares, I'll go on to the next one. This is easy. They even got me gloves just in case

00:54

I need it. How ridiculous is this? Am I right? Okay, here we go. Serrano pepper. You can get this in a

01:00

Papa John's pizza place. Nothing. Boom. All right, that one was a little hot.

01:12

I'm not going to lie. I have some milk. I don't need it. Just in case

01:18

I do, I'm going to pour some milk. Listen, I haven't had a hot pepper in years.

01:27

That's no lie. I am underestimating what I'm doing here. Mmm. Okay, did we get enough?

01:33

We got enough shares. Okay, here we go. Whoo! That was hot. That was hot. That's a Papa John's pepper.

01:40

That was a lot hotter than I thought. Jalapeno! Here we go! Oh, actually, that's sweet.

01:50

That's not bad. Although, this side of my mouth is on fire right now. Oh! Ow!

02:00

Oh, that's hot! That's a... Oh! Share the video, but I don't want you to because I don't want to keep eating these, but you need to share them, don't you?

02:13

Whoo! Oh, that's jalapeno. Why? Why would somebody eat that by itself?

02:20

My mouth is on fire. All right. Oh! Ah! I'm supposed to wait like another 20 seconds before I have another one, so this should give me a good milk break.

02:32

Mmm. Mmm. Mmm. Oh, that's painful. How could somebody ever, ever do that?

02:37

Never do this to yourself if you are the one that loves this. Okay, I believe

02:43

I'm being told we got enough shares. Yeah, no, we definitely, we have enough. Wow.

02:49

Here we go. I just looked at this next one. This is a... What is this, habanero?

02:56

Is that what this is, habanero pepper? I don't want to do it. I don't want to do it. Okay. Sorry.

03:06

That was it. Ah -ha -ha! Ah! Dang it!

03:13

I hated that! Oh! Oh! Habanero!

03:21

Habanero. Habanero. Oh, this is terrifying. My whole nose...

03:28

Mmm. This is the first time I've been able to breathe through my nose in like a year. Oh!

03:34

Oh! Oh! Oh! Share the video! Oh, share the video! Share this episode, please.

03:40

We're talking about torture, and you're seeing it firsthand. Oh! Gosh! Oh! Ah!

03:47

Okay, here we go. Oh, the final pepper. Final pepper. The hottest chili in the world, ghost chili.

03:59

I don't want to do this at all. Oh, why would I agree to that? Ugh! Can't even open it.

04:07

Oh! Oh, no! It's everywhere! Okay, I'm told to use a glove, which you better believe

04:12

I'm gonna. Here we go. Oh, it's okay.

04:23

It's okay. No, no, it's not. Oh, my gosh. Oh, that is the hottest thing

04:30

I've ever had in my mouth! Oh! Oh! Who would do this? Oh!

04:36

Mmm. Mmm. Ah! You've got 20 seconds. You need to seriously just share this episode.

04:43

Please! Mmm. Share this episode!

04:53

This is torture! Mmm. Oh! Oh. Oh.

05:03

60 Mormon beliefs in 60 seconds. Take one. Love.

05:09

Mercy. Inspiration. Temples. Marriage.

05:14

Minivans. Cut, cut. Hold on. Minivans? Yeah. I don't know.

05:20

I love minivans. Yes, but this is 60 Mormon beliefs. You were asked to say your favorite belief.

05:26

You're saying Mormons believe in minivans? Well, I would hope so. My husband's a van salesman.

05:32

Okay. Let's shoot it again, and this time, list your favorite Mormon belief. Okay. 60

05:38

Mormon beliefs, take two, and action! Love. Mercy.

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Inspiration. Temples. Marriage. One day, my husband will have his own planet, with minivans.

05:52

Cut, cut. Focus more on a belief and less on minivans. Gotcha. Mormon beliefs, take three, and action!

06:04

Love. Mercy. Inspiration. Temples. Marriage.

06:10

The fact that people with dark skin are no longer considered cursed by the church. Cut! My husband never thought you were cursed at Bob's Minivans.

06:19

Come on down. Let's go with a more mainstream belief. Oh, okay.

06:25

Okay. All right. Temples. Marriage. Starbucks can suck it.

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Why would you say that? Because we don't believe in coffee. Let's go again.

06:38

Say a belief. One or two words. Just one or two words. Okay. Temples.

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Marriage. Secret polygamy. Cut. Temples. Marriage.

06:53

Planet Kolob. Cut! Temples. Marriage. Mitt Romney.

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And Glenn Beck. Cut! We're going to do this one last time. Temples.

07:09

Marriage. Fun. Cults. This sure is a fun cult. Cut! Thanks, but we're going to go get someone else.

07:19

Okay. I mean, if you're sure, you should get my sister. She's the actor.

07:25

The human family. Eternal families. Genealogy. Laughter. Minivans.

08:07

All right, guys. We're back. Thank you, guys, to our live studio audience.

08:16

Thank you to everybody watching across them internets and across social media. I want to encourage you guys to like and share the episode.

08:23

Let everybody know about the late -night show with the unpopular opinion. So this is next week, guys.

08:29

I'm Jeff. We're back after a little bit of a break. You guys excited about today? Yes? All right.

08:34

A lot of things have been happening since we've been gone, so let's talk about the news, guys. A company recently came out with, and I almost didn't believe this was true, ketchup in slices.

08:46

Much like cheese slices. And, of course, the only difference between the two is that people will actually buy cheese slices.

08:55

Ketchup slices. Now, according to police, a man sucker -punched a 5 -year -old in the face on a

09:02

New York City subway this past week, demonstrating that maybe taking candy from a baby is not as easy as one thought.

09:09

Now, speaking of New York City, New York City is working on a bill that will prohibit people from smoking and walking at the same time.

09:18

Which is, of course, a shame, considering just how many speedwalkers love to smoke at the same time.

09:25

Jim Caviezel, you'll remember him as the man who portrayed Jesus in the film Passion of the

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Christ, he's actually portraying the Apostle Paul in the new movie about the Apostle.

09:37

Come on, Jim. I mean, can't we just have one cinematic universe about the Bible? Just one? You don't get to play all of them.

09:43

Now, it's been revealed that Facebook has not kept privacy for its users. And by revealed, we mean it's been revealed to people over 60 years old.

09:55

They weren't aware of that. Now, the rest of us knew about it, and how else do you explain ads popping up about, say, garden tools, after you just talk about a garden?

10:05

Just happens to come up like that. Did an app just come up? No, Facebook.

10:11

We don't want to buy. We do not want to buy garden tools. We just want to laugh. That's what we do here at Next Week with Jeff Durbin.

10:19

Well, that's great. Want to laugh? Watch Next Week with Jeff Durbin. Wow, got to say that I am flattered,

10:26

Facebook. Very flattered. Want to flatter people with Facebook ads? All right, good one,

10:32

Facebook. Now, you know, I can see where the anger comes from. I mean, really, sincerely, I do. Nobody's Facebook information should be given out and abused, except for the people that put up those stupid cat videos.

10:45

Definitely them. Now, moving on. Starbucks is trying to engineer a more environmentally friendly coffee cup, and they're offering $10 million to anyone who can do it, and that is great, because with $10 million, the winner can actually afford to go to Starbucks.

11:04

So there was a pro -choice rally last week, and usually you can count on pro -choice rallies to be inappropriate and, of course, rude.

11:12

But every once in a while, they'll have a march where they'll say something polite, and this was not that time.

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So take a look. Hoes need abortions! Hoes don't need abortions.

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Hoes need Jesus, guys. and, of course, a very stern talking -to by their parents.

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Now, there's nothing like living in a time where women never wanted to be identified as a sex object and then call themselves hoes.

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Now, I haven't been this confused since I learned that Kmart is actually still in business. Now, the last time

12:12

I heard people call themselves hoes was when a person dressed up as a garden tool at the Garden Tool Convention.

12:21

Great. No, not garden hoes. Now, we live in an exciting time where Christians are finally getting into the entertainment business and starting to make some great movies.

12:31

Now, unfortunately, not all Christian movies are good, and this leads to a new game right here on Next Week with Jeff Durbin called

12:38

Pure or False? Whoo! Yeah!

12:48

I need two volunteers from our audience. Welcome, guys. Come on over here, sir. You'll stand right next to me here. And, Zoe, you'll stand right over here next to me here.

12:55

There you go. You guys squeeze right in there. Okay, good. Now, two volunteers from the audience, guys. And let's ask the names.

13:01

What's your name, sir? Doug Bubolo. Doug what now? Bubolo. Bubolo? Bubolo. That's a very interesting name.

13:07

Appreciate that. Yeah, good. So, Doug and what's your name? Zoe. Zoe, get closer. I will not bite you, I promise.

13:13

Okay, so, now, great. Now, thanks for this actual proof to all the online trolls that we have a live studio audience.

13:20

Right, guys? It's real. Now, I'm going to read to you guys possible Christian movie plots that I have on these cards right here.

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And you have to guess whether the movie is real or fake using these paddles right here.

13:34

Okay? So, there's one for you, Zoe. And one for you, Doug. So, real is pure right there.

13:40

And fake is false right there. Okay? You guys ready to go? Yes? Audience ready? Yeah. Yeah? Now, whoever guesses the most correct answers gets the coveted

13:50

Next Week with Jeff Durbin mug. Woo! Yeah! Now, everybody watching on Facebook right now, you guys can play, too, by commenting pure or false after each movie plot.

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So, okay. Here's the first possible plot. Here we go. First possible plot.

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All right. A man who's also an FBI agent trying to solve a crime goes on vacation with his

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Christian wife only to experience the rapture causing him to be left behind. Until he turns to Jesus, he is forced to repeat that day over and over again like Groundhog Day.

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Is this movie pure or is it false? What do we got here?

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We got false, false. Okay. Fun fact about this movie is that it's actually pure.

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Woo! It actually exists. It does. Now, fun fact is when the main character finally does come to Jesus, the rapture doesn't happen.

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I don't know what that's about. So, here's the next one. A group of people are unaware that they are on the verge of death as they end up in a diner having a conversation with Jesus.

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The one person trying to keep them from talking to Jesus is an officer named DeVille. Pure or false?

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What do we got here? Pure, pure. Very good. That movie is pure. It's called The Encounter.

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And they also made a sequel and a series out of it and here's a quick snippet from the movie to help pique your curiosity.

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This is the moment that the characters discover Officer DeVille might not be a cop. But what about Officer DeVille?

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He walked in the diner himself. Officer who? DeVille. D -E -V -I -L -L -E.

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Officer Devil. Oh, that's rich. Now, a doll comes to life to help a young girl win a worship competition.

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Thanks to the doll, the girl wins and the parents come to Jesus. Is this movie just pure or false?

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It's pure, pure, false. I don't even know the answer to this. What is this? It's false. Oh, very good.

16:01

So that movie is false and here's the next one. Through the help of a colleague's time machine, a

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Bible scholar from the 1800s is sent to the 21st century to see what morality looks like and discovers that everything is horrible, especially movie theaters.

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Is that pure or false? Pure. Did you know that movie?

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No. Okay, pure. Very good. That movie is pure and it's called Time Changer.

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Now, here we go, guys. On to the last one. A group of teenagers have a church lock -in.

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However, one of them brings a dirty magazine which unleashes a pornographic demon that sucks them into an alternate dimension.

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Pure or false? Zoe says pure. You say false.

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That's pure. It actually is a thing. It really is. That movie is actually, it's pure.

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It's a real thing. It's called The Lock -In. My children and Zoe, they've watched this a number of times and it's an hour and a half long.

17:06

You can watch the whole thing for free on YouTube and here's my favorite part of the movie, guys. There's only one person left and he fights the demon in the baptismal.

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The moment this teen wins the fight, he cries as the only survivor and then pay attention to the left side of the screen, everybody.

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Get it off! Save me.

17:34

Save me. God. Jesus.

17:46

Couldn't they have just reshot the scene? Dude, you walked on set. All right, guys. So actually, they're both winners today.

17:53

They both get in next week with Jeff Durbin Mug, guys. Thank you, guys. Thank you, guys, for joining us today on Next Week.

17:59

Now, if you guys know of any movies that would be great for this game and there are so many options out there with Christian Media, send it to us with the hashtag

18:08

PureOrFalse, guys. We'll be right back right here on Next Week, guys. Quick Plug of the Week with David Bonson.

18:14

Today, we're going to talk about torture. Stay with us. Okay. Y 'all need to get

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Apology All Access. Right now, it is smoking hot on there.

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I'm telling you, it is burning hot. Mmm, mmm, mmm. Oh, it's

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Apology On Demand. Get all this stuff. As much as you want. Oh, this never ends.

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That's how you're going to feel with Apology All Access. This never, ever ends.

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Oh, ha. Oh, it's the hottest thing that's ever happened. Apology All Access.

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Mmm, mmm. Spicy. It's the kind of content you're going to get.

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My eyes are burning. My nose is leaking. Ha. Oh, this is the worst thing ever.

19:16

Not Apologia. Apologia's the best. Oh, oh, oh.

19:27

Hey, guys. Welcome back, everybody. Welcome back, everybody, to Next Week. I am

19:32

Jeff Durbin, and of course, as always, it is time for our Blend of the Week. I love this one.

19:41

Look at it. Joy did such a great job with this one. Look, it's got a little Donald Trump inside the French press. It's a little Donald Trump in the

19:46

French press. So this is actually called the French press, and it's the only press

19:52

Trump hasn't called fake news. All right, everybody. So again, welcome back, guys.

20:02

It's been great to have some time off to get prepared for the show, and today we're going to talk about a very important subject, torture.

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And by torture, I don't mean watching the long -running show, The View. Although that's awfully close to it.

20:18

Instead, we answer the old Shakespearean query, to torture or not to torture?

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That is the question. Now, at the outset, we all need to recognize that as a nation, we are seriously divided on this issue.

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There's people on the left who believe that we should not engage in torturing human beings, and there's people on the left who believe that we should say torture suspected terrorists, and those people are

20:41

Jack Bauer fans. And then there are people on the right who believe that we shouldn't torture, and some on the right who believe that we should torture, also

20:50

Jack Bauer fans. Now, what's even more peculiar, given that we have God's law in front of us to answer this particular question, is we have

20:58

Christians who are on both sides of the issue, and some haven't even thought through it. They're too busy worrying about the rapture or stuck in the rapture, like David, no last name, and the heart stopper in the blink of an eye.

21:12

No, we just talked about this, guys. Streaming now, by the way. Now, of course, some could care less because they're too busy trying to figure out who the

21:20

Antichrist is or to even bother. Speaking of the Antichrist, did you guys hear that Cecile Richards is retiring from Planned Parenthood?

21:29

Good. Now, it might feel better to ignore the subject at hand, but torture and the nation's policy on it is too important to push to the side.

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For instance, Gina Haspel, Jack Bauer fan, and CIA worker who oversaw a secret prison in Thailand in which terrorism suspects were subjected to brutal techniques is

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Trump's pick for CIA director. Now, thankfully, we have a man like Rand Paul who says he will filibuster as long as he has to in order to stop her from becoming director.

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But if you didn't know about that, you would hear about Trump and Gina Haspel and think,

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Gina Haspel? Is that another porn star that got paid off by Trump? Sadly, no.

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Now, the first problem we have to overcome is figuring out the definition of torture. The word torture can often be very subjective.

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For instance, if you ask me what torture is, I'll tell you about having daughters who listen to Frozen so many times that I've actually wondered if it's actually possible to waterboard a cartoon character.

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I can tell you by the time I had to listen to an entire lecture from Bernie Sanders on the merits of socialism.

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Or I can tell you about how I feel about the Christian movie In the Blink of an Eye. Now streaming, by the way.

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Now, some people think that music is torture. For instance, some believe that Iron Maiden is the best band of all time.

22:49

And... Wait, it's like this, right? That's what you do, right? Now, others would rather be put into an actual Iron Maiden torture chamber than listen to that band.

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To certain people, having Donald Trump as president is torture. And for others, watching evangelical leaders abandon meaningful commitments to Christian ethics in order to make excuses for Trump's behavior is torture.

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Sorry, guys, that came from a very personal place. Now, as an example of the problem of definition, listen to our president,

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Donald Trump, talking about the well -known method of torture known as waterboarding. So, waterboarding used to be used because they said it really wasn't torture.

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It was the one step slightly below torture. That's why waterboarding was legal. I mean, torture is real torture, okay?

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Waterboarding is... I'm sure it's not pleasant, but waterboarding was just short of torture.

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One step below torture. Now, let's talk about waterboarding for just a minute. Waterboarding is the method in which a victim is usually restrained with their hands and feet, handcuffs are tied up, a breathable fabric is put over their heads and they're forced on their backs.

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The victim is then subjected to having water poured over their face, into their nostrils and mouth in an effort to give them the, quote, sensation of drowning.

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Now, here's an example of what that looks like. Give me emails of the rest of the

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Saudi group. Give me one email and I will stop this. Who's in the

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Saudi group? What's the target? Where was the last time you saw bin

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Laden? Where was the last time you saw bin Laden, huh? You know, when you lie to me,

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I hurt you. This is what defeat looks like, bro.

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Your jihad is over. Now, as you can see, waterboarding is a method that is meant to cause extreme suffering and pain in another human being by essentially drowning them for extended periods of time while keeping them alive.

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Now, if that's not torture, then Game of Thrones isn't porn. Scientology isn't a cult, and Hillary Clinton doesn't lose her emails.

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A recent CIA report detailed other techniques like keeping someone awake for 180 hours, mock executions, and rectal feeding in which food or water is force -fed by a tube into a victim's rectum.

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Think about that for a second, guys. No, don't. Don't worry, guys. That's not actually torture.

25:26

It's just a new book teaching a diet fad popular among vegan hipsters. It's called

25:31

Beyond Gluten -Free, Mastering the Downstairs Mix -Up. You can find it in your local bookstore next to the new book written by the

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CIA called Don't Ever Cross Us or We'll Stick a Tube in Your Butt Because We Work for Satan.

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It's weird that both books are in the same section of the bookstore. And just so we're clear about how our president feels about waterboarding...

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They asked me, why do you think about waterboarding, Mr. Trump? I said, I love it. I love it.

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I think it's great. He's not just for waterboarding.

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He loves it. Sure, that's a strange thing to love, but then again, this is a man who loves a lot of strange things, guys.

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I love war. I love fighting with banks. I love that Russia is dropping bombs all over ice.

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I love it. I love protests. I love the Second Amendment. I love construction. I love great generals.

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I love open markets. I love General MacArthur. I love the United Nations. My boy,

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I love you. Come up, Eric. Come up. I love you, my boy. I love these comeback people. I love what I'm doing.

26:39

His love for waterboarding isn't so strange now, is it? I think you all owe Trump an apology, guys.

26:45

You can, of course, make it better by staying a night in a Trump hotel and getting a spa. Just don't choose the waterboarding package.

26:54

Now, more on the point of definition. Another difficulty is in the attempt to minimize what actually takes place with these methods of torture.

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Obfuscation via euphemism is very popular among those in government when discussing these methods.

27:08

Here's an example of what that looks like from the 2012 presidential race. I don't see it as torture.

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I see it as an enhanced interrogation technique. Enhanced interrogation technique.

27:19

That sounds lovely. I think I want some of that myself. You see, we seem to do this a lot in our culture when talking about moral issues.

27:27

We do it with abortion. It's not a mother paying an assassin to stick sharp instruments into her vagina to tear her little boy's arms, legs, and head off, crushing the skull until his brains come out, and then putting him back together like a puzzle piece on a tray so as to not leave any pieces behind.

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No. In the modern vernacular, it's reproductive freedom. It's not murder.

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It's pro -choice. It's not a baby. It's a fetus. Even though fetus is actually a

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Latin term that means baby. You see, it's not torture. It's enhanced interrogation techniques.

28:03

Now, can you guys imagine the Roman centurions calling crucifixion modified tree decoration?

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Or the fine people on the thin blue line calling police brutality amplified heavy petting?

28:17

Or large, mixed martial artists, meatheads pounding one another into bloody stumps?

28:23

Wait, that's actually a good one. That's true. Now, we should be willing, all of us, to have integrity when describing what we're doing.

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Call things what they are. For example, abortion, murder. Abortionists, murderers.

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Cecile Richards, tyrant. Taxation, theft. There's no applause for that one, guys.

28:44

We have a lot of training to do here. House hunting for more than a year, living with your parents indefinitely.

28:51

Now, doing this bit and thinking about the old MasterCard commercials, priceless. You see, we have to ask ourselves a fundamental question.

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By what standard? What's the standard we will use to make judgments on any moral issue?

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Early on in American history, the fundamental assumption was that we would use the Word of God as the final arbiter.

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It's the very breathed -out words of the Eternal God. Therefore, it has the final say. This is why our first Supreme Court Justice, John Jay, appealed to it in laying down the foundation for our case law system in the

29:23

United States. And it's why George Washington placed his hand on Deuteronomy 28 at his inauguration, invoking the very curse of God upon our nation if we depart from God.

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The Bible says that God's law is good, holy, true, and perfect. When God gave

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His law to His people, He said, See, I have taught you statutes and judgments just as the

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Lord my God commanded me that you should do thus in the land where you are entering to possess it.

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So keep and do them for that is your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the peoples who will hear all these statutes and say,

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Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people. For what great nation is there that has a

30:08

God so near to it as is the Lord our God whenever we call on Him?

30:13

Deuteronomy 4, 5 through 6. You see, if you want to get a fix on how God feels about His law, take a look at the longest chapter in the entire

30:21

Bible, Psalm 119. If you want to get a fix on how Jesus felt about God's law, read

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Matthew 5, 17 through 19 where He tells people not to even begin to think that He came to destroy it and that whoever teaches people to disobey even the least commandment in God's law would be called least in God's kingdom.

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By what standard? That's the fundamental question. Today, in a nation that was once a

30:46

Christian republic, we're lost in a sea of utter confusion. What is truth? Is there any such thing as truth?

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Who decides what's true? Is morality even a meaningful thing to talk about in a world created by time and chance acting on matter?

31:00

Do African apes and evolved pond scum have any moral obligations to one another at all?

31:07

Why can't one African ape torture another? Why not? They behave like this all the time.

31:14

It's time. You know, right after that, the grandma said the one thing that no senior citizen has ever said.

31:37

Just take me back to the nursing home. The truth is, we can use

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God's word to come to conclusions on this point. To torture or not to torture, it turns out that the

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Bible does have an answer to this question. So first, yes, we can inflict physical punishment upon image bearers of God.

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It must be done with witnesses and evidence and due process. This can include capital punishment and physical beating.

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The Bible absolutely forbids in the strongest terms possible any punishment of an image bearer of God without due process.

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There must be two to three independent lines of evidence and witness. There must be a trial. No accusation was even to be received by anyone without two to three independent lines of evidence.

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And absolutely under no circumstance was someone to be punished in any way without a proper trial and a verdict based upon independent evidence.

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Another point of the biblical standard of justice is that no accused person was required to help their accuser in any way.

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If someone is truly guilty based upon witness and evidence, then there's no need to have the accused provide any support or help.

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They are guilty and it can be proven. Further, under biblical law, yes, in this fallen world with sin and evil, the judicial system can inflict physical harm upon an image bearer of God.

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Again, with due process. Capital punishment is commanded by God for people who murder, rape, and kidnap, for example.

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Also, God commands that under certain circumstances with an official trial, judge, and witnesses that a person may even receive a beating for their crime.

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This can be seen in Deuteronomy 25 verses 1 -3. There's even a limit to how much this could happen so as to not completely degrade an image bearer of God.

33:30

Now, you have to recognize that some confused bleeding hearts may have forgotten that we live in a sinful world with evil people plotting and engaging in the most heinous acts and may be wondering why such a sweet, gentle, needy, surfer

33:44

Jesus would ever command someone to receive a beating for a crime. So, let's take a look at this footage from a store in which a man punches a pregnant woman in the face and then steals the money from the cash register.

33:56

Now, I just want to say before we start this, I have to warn you here, give you a strong warning. What you're about to see is horrible and it's very difficult to watch.

34:27

Now, under Biblical law, we wouldn't punish citizens through coercive taxation and require them to pay for this many food, medical, shelter, and security for years upon years.

34:45

Under Biblical law, there are judicial sanctions that could provide for actual punishment that fits the crime itself.

34:52

He could receive a beating and be forced to pay back double what he stole. Also, if he killed her baby in the process of committing this crime,

35:00

God says that he should receive capital punishment in Exodus 21 -22. So, yes, there are circumstances in this fallen world in which we could have the judiciary meting out punishments that are physically harmful.

35:14

And I'll make one more note on this. Very important. Physical punishment outside of capital punishment was forbidden to maim.

35:21

There is absolutely no basis in Biblical law for sadistic forms of torture. It was simple, justice.

35:29

When the Bible uses the formula eye for eye, tooth for tooth, and life for life, it refers to equal justice.

35:35

The issue is whether we can inflict harm or torment upon another human being that is not specifically authorized by God.

35:43

The issue is not whether or not we can inflict physical pain upon a human being. God says capital punishment, lashes, beating with rods, as punishment can occur after due process.

35:55

See, the challenge facing us in the torture debate is actually two -fold. Number one, does God permit people to engage in sadistic forms of human torture in order to force them to testify against themselves or to gain information?

36:11

Number two, does God permit us to inflict physical harm upon people who have not been given any due process, a trial, witnesses, a defense, et cetera?

36:20

The answer to both of these is a resounding no. A good biblical point of number two, point number two, is found in Acts 23.

36:29

See, the Apostle Paul was trained in the law of God under the renowned teacher Gamaliel, and he was before a

36:35

Jewish council. It says, And looking intently at the council, Paul said, Brothers, I have lived my life before God in all good conscience up to this day.

36:45

And the high priest Ananias commanded those who stood by him to strike him on the mouth.

36:51

Then Paul said to him, God is going to strike you, you whitewashed wall. Are you sitting to judge me according to the law, and yet contrary to the law, you order me to be struck?

37:02

Paul was physically struck before he was convicted of any crime. No witness, no evidence.

37:09

Paul appealed to the law of God itself that forbids any physical harm before a proper trial with due process. So the point, you can't touch another image bearer of God without due process.

37:19

Period. That's justice. Now, listen to Ron Paul talk about some of the consequences of accepting anything other than this.

37:28

Yes, torture is illegal. By our laws, it's illegal by international laws.

37:36

How do you define torture, sir? Well, waterboarding is torture and many other things.

37:44

It's illegal under international law and under our law. It's also immoral. See the audience there?

37:49

Now hold on. If the audience didn't seem to agree with this man, then why do you hear a crowd agreeing with him?

37:56

We should get the answer out of them. I'm sure President Trump would be fine with the waterboarding of the audience. Now, in the

38:03

Kaiser commentary, Philip Kaiser lists some powerful and very compelling biblical points that are worth paying attention to if we're at all concerned with God's law and His standards of justice over against the constantly changing and tyrannical laws of men.

38:18

He wrote this. Number one, Paul declared the slapping of a prisoner prior to a conviction under due process of law to be a violation of the law of God.

38:27

Acts 23. If Paul was struck, quote, contrary to the law, then anything greater than a slap on the face should also be considered unlawful.

38:35

This would be true whether the person was a native born or a stranger who dwells among you, since there must be one law, the

38:42

Bible says, for both. Exodus 12, 49. This principle would, of course, rule out waterboarding.

38:48

Number two, Nicodemus argued that judging either an individual or a crowd of being an enemy of the state without having been convicted in a court of law was contrary to the law of God.

38:58

John 7, 47 through 53. Torture assumes the guilt of an individual without due process.

39:07

Number three, arguing from the lesser to the greater, cruelty against animals was forbidden in the

39:12

Bible. Genesis 49, Proverbs 12, 10. How much more so cruelty against humans?

39:19

Number four, biblical law governing the treatment of captives does not allow for torturing or killing.

39:25

2 Kings 6, 8 through 23. On the field of battle, an enemy can be killed, but once the immediate conflict has ceased, the prisoners cannot be treated inhumanely.

39:38

Number six, witnesses were required of the prosecution, but not of the accused.

39:44

Deuteronomy 19, Leviticus 5. This by itself rules out the use of torture because it is requiring a person to become a witness against himself.

39:54

Only the accuser was forced to testify. Next point, torture violates the biblical right of the accused to remain silent.

40:02

This law is implied in Numbers 35, 30, Deuteronomy 17, 6, 19, 15, and is explicitly affirmed by Christ's silence in Mark 15, 3 through 5,

40:13

Matthew 27, 14. You see, this reinforces the previous point that the prosecution had the responsibility of bringing witnesses and that the accused did not.

40:25

Next point, the accused is treated as innocent until proven guilty. Deuteronomy 25, 1 through 2,

40:30

Isaiah 43, 9. And this was one of the gross violations of the law that occurred at the trial of Jesus.

40:37

He was mocked and beaten prior to trial, Luke 22. But modern torture of captured suspects is a similar violation of the principle of innocent until proven guilty.

40:48

Next point, torture erodes the testimony and character of a nation.

40:54

Deuteronomy 4, 6 through 8, Lamentations 4, 3, Ezekiel 34, 4. God wanted the

41:00

Gentiles to be jealous of the liberties that His law brought to Israel and declared His laws to be the perfect law of liberty.

41:07

However, through cruelty, Israel's reputation was destroyed. Lamentations 4, 3,

41:12

Ezekiel 34, 4. In a similar way, torture was ruined, has ruined, America's grand testimony.

41:20

Next, many commentators have pointed out that the torturer himself is dehumanized and that, quote, the cruel man does himself harm,

41:29

Proverbs 11, 17. Next, all men are made in the image of God and torture degrades that image.

41:37

Even after a trial and conviction, this image of God and man meant that no one could be given more than 40 lashes and a beating because that would make him, quote, degraded.

41:47

Now, next, even after capital punishment was inflicted, this is powerful, the body of a criminal under God's law had to be treated respectfully lest the land be defiled.

41:59

Deuteronomy 21, 23. Certain forms of torture have flagrantly disrespected people's bodies.

42:06

Next, authorizing torture trusts government with far too much power. Since civil government is made up of depraved individuals, unrestrained power in the hands of such would be corrupting.

42:18

We've seen what the power to torture has done to degrade governments in even, quote, civilized countries.

42:25

Why would we want that in America? And finally, the New Testament says that every transgression and disobedience in the

42:33

Old Testament received a just penalty. Hebrews 2, 2. To the degree that we deviate from God's law, we deviate from justice.

42:41

And, of course, the golden rule, do unto others what you would have them do unto you. No one would want to be tortured if captured by the enemy.

42:50

Now, here are some final thoughts, everybody. History is, sadly, replete with examples of human beings being creative with and seemingly enjoying the torture of another image -bearer of God.

43:02

From sawing human beings in half to impaling human beings to the

43:10

Judas cradle to the rack to, of course, quartering to crucifixion.

43:20

You see, there seems to be no limit to the kind of trauma and pain we want to inflict on other human beings.

43:25

Hopefully, we're all familiar with the torture and murder of Jesus. And I want to humbly ask you all to consider just a few important last thoughts.

43:34

First, what makes the suffering of Jesus so horrific is that he was beaten and tortured as an innocent man.

43:42

He had his beard pulled from his face. His face was smashed in. He had a crown of thorns smashed into his head.

43:48

And he was whipped with a cat of nine tails, which would have certainly opened up his back and body, exposing muscle and perhaps organs.

43:56

Ultimately, he was nailed to a cross where he suffered with literally excruciating pain and suffocation.

44:03

When we recognize that this was the greatest form of shame that humans could inflict upon another, it's so horrific because it was so unjust and so terribly evil.

44:13

Now, all of us recognize this. Jesus was tortured. He was even tortured before he had a proper trial, evidence, and a verdict.

44:20

That's why it was so unjust. Number two, when Jesus was at these kangaroo trials with false witnesses, notice, and this is a well -known historic and biblical fact, that Jesus remained silent during his trial.

44:36

He was following the law of God. No accused person was required under God's law to help their accusers or give them any information.

44:44

Those are God's standards. Like it or not, no human being is required to testify against themselves and no torture of any human being in an effort to have them give up potential information is permitted under God's law.

44:58

Jesus understood this. We need to understand it too. If we want a world filled with justice and righteous standards in society and in law, we need only to look at the law of God to discover where justice is truly found.

45:13

If we want a world filled with injustice, torture, and the degradation of the image of God, we will look to the trial of Jesus and begin establishing that sort of shameful judicial process as our own.

45:26

I say may it never be. We'll be right back, guys, next with David Bonson. Stay with us, guys.

45:55

Welcome back to Next Week, everybody. Very, very excited, delighted to have this next guest right here on Next Week.

46:03

He is David Bonson. He's the founder, managing partner, and chief investment officer of the

46:09

Bonson Group, a bi -coastal private wealth management boutique based in Newport Beach, California.

46:15

He actually is often seen on CNBC, Fox Business, and Bloomberg, and is a regular contributor to National Review and Forbes.

46:24

He is also the son of one of my heroes of the faith, Dr. Greg Bonson, the man who has impacted me and my ministry greatly, so please welcome

46:34

David Bonson, everybody. What's up, David?

46:40

Welcome. Can you hear me, David? I can.

46:45

I apologize. I had the mute on. Great to be with you. Thanks, brother, so much. So I'm excited, very excited.

46:51

Of course, I'm very familiar with yourself, with your work. I had just an amazing time,

46:58

David. My very favorite talk from the conference a couple of years ago, the Bonson Conference in honor of your father.

47:04

My favorite talk was yours. It was just so encouraging to hear and to listen to all the stuff with your dad and how much he just really dramatically impacted your own life.

47:14

Well, I appreciate that, and it was actually, I give a lot of speeches, and I've spoken all over the country for many years now on a whole lot of different topics, but that speech was one of my favorite to give as well.

47:28

It was obviously a little bit more emotional and a little more personal than going and talking about the economy or investment markets or something like that, which is what

47:37

I routinely speak on, but it was a memorable opportunity and great to be with other people who were impacted by Dad's teaching ministry.

47:48

Yeah, and your dad, of course, was a prolific writer and speaker. I mean, my goodness,

47:54

David, I'm taking a look at some of your dad's lecture series, and I don't know how your dad even slept or ate, but the reason

48:03

I bring that up is now you have this important book. It's called Crisis of Responsibility, so you're following in some ways a lot of,

48:11

I think, impacted by so much of what your dad did. You are a bright man, intelligent.

48:17

You care a lot about what's going on around you, and now you've written this book. Tell me about the book, David. Why did you write it?

48:22

What's the underlying point of the book? Well, the kind of short version background is that I work as an investment manager.

48:32

At the time of the financial crisis, I was a managing director at one of the largest investment banks on Wall Street, Morgan Stanley, and the financial crisis was an event that obviously profoundly affected our society, affected a lot of people in a lot of different sectors in terms of its economic impact and,

48:52

I think, a lot of cultural ramifications as well, but myself professionally kind of living through it, it particularly was something that impacted me and motivated me to understand it better, and I pursued a pretty aggressive project of studying and analyzing the financial crisis, its causes, and what

49:16

I thought would be the right things to prevent it from happening again, and unfortunately, as is the case often, a lot of the material and a lot of the other perspectives that existed out there

49:27

I found to be lacking, sometimes just dead wrong, and that happens a lot, and that's actually kind of easier to deal with, but the major strand

49:36

I ran into was the incomplete analysis. In other words, someone on the left maybe being critical of the banking system or Wall Street or corporate greed or something like that, and they kind of had it, they kind of were on to something, but I felt short of closing the circle, and then on the right,

49:57

I think that there was a significant amount of incomplete analysis. They didn't necessarily go after Wall Street or greed or capitalism the way the left did, but they went after government housing policy,

50:08

Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, oftentimes the Federal Reserve was a favorite little target, but what both sides were doing wrong or what both sides were not doing was providing any analysis of Main Street's culpability in the crisis, and in fact,

50:25

I would say it was the opposite. They were actually starting off with the premise. Their sort of presupposition was that Main Street was the victim, and my analysis was abundantly clear that Main Street was largely the perpetrator of the financial crisis, not in a way that vindicated other bad actors, government policy or excesses and Wall Street leverage, but the narrative was dead wrong, and it struck me that far more than even an economic story, which is my area of professional interest and passion, but I ran into a gigantic moral narrative.

51:02

We have a society that in 17 years since the savings and loan crisis, by 2008,

51:09

I don't consider 17 years a super long period of time, but all of a sudden, it became not just okay to walk away from bills and financial obligations, liabilities, the one was perfectly capable of living up to, even worse than the fact that people were so comfortable with that decision making, it became a source of pride.

51:31

It became something people could go to the bar on Friday night and brag about, and so what exactly it was that it created this kind of very rapid degradation of our own character, and that moral climate was of great concern to me, so I wanted to write a book about the financial crisis that told the full cultural story that really looked to evaluate

51:55

Main Street's culpability, and how the covetousness and the sort of 10th

52:01

Commandment violation that I think was systemic across Wall Street was in fact very well marinated across Main Street as well.

52:11

Then in 2016, my agent and publisher came to me and said, look, what do you think about taking that exact concept, this story, this thread that you're writing around the financial crisis, but applying it in an even broader sense, applying it to other issues that at the time were quite hot and in fact haven't cooled down at all around free trade, around immigration, around housing policy, the jobs market, education was a big issue, the size of governments.

52:41

You have a lot of these sociopolitical issues that are of great concern to a lot of interested people, but I don't think that those issues are often really analyzed from the standpoint of our individual bottom -up obligations as a member of American society.

53:00

My premise became, and what I attempt to establish throughout the book and hopefully provide some early levels of remedy and discussion is the fact that we have a crisis of responsibility that begins with ourselves.

53:14

That's powerful. I think, of course, and I think you've addressed that, in terms of how we handle things today in this modern society.

53:22

We look at a particular group's responsible or it's always somebody else, some other organization, and there's not a lot of intimate personal analysis over our own failures, and I think you've nailed it and that gets ignored.

53:37

In terms of writing this book, Crisis of Responsibility, the main thrust of it is talking about the moral responsibility of individuals and failures and those sorts of things.

53:47

So what is, when you talk about a solution, David, what is the solution that you offer?

53:55

Well, I mean, I attempt in the final two chapters of the book to divide it up between chapter 11 is a sort of individual personal checklist of starting points, of things people may be able to do to address that responsibility deficit that begins at home, and then chapter 12, the final chapter of the book, is applying it more to the macro level, the broader standpoint across all society.

54:22

So there is a top 10 list in chapter 11 of the 10 things I'm recommending people can kind of do to begin this process.

54:30

Before I even go to some of those particular remedies, I'll highlight a couple for you to save time, but the very first thing

54:36

I have to say is that we have to start off by acknowledging the problem itself. I think that most recovery programs are really on to something.

54:44

The recovery can't begin unless there is at least the acknowledgement of a problem, and I'm not sure that we have really come to terms with the fact that there is in fact this crisis of responsibility, and that blame casting is in fact the issue that I think we most need to deal with as a starting point.

55:03

Well, I kind of have been raised believing and seeing and feeling very much that the left often,

55:14

I think, is in a sort of victimology complex. There's this heavy identity politics.

55:21

They're very comfortable building a framework for how they view society around race, gender, and class.

55:29

I think that there's a significant Marxian thread that is very prone to class envy.

55:34

That's right. So victimhood is systemic in a lot of progressivism, but I'm sorry

55:40

I don't believe that they have a monopoly on blame casting. I think that the right has become in recent years equally guilty of such, often around the fact that our government is so large and so reckless and so ill -suited for dealing with the policy needs of the day.

56:02

Our critiques of government are certainly spot on in that regard, but I believe they get the cause and effect totally wrong.

56:08

I think we have a deficient government because we have an inadequately self -governed populace. Ah, there you go.

56:15

And that became a big theme of the book that I believe needs to be addressed. Well, you know,

56:20

David, it's great to hear you say these things and to see the application you're aiming for.

56:27

Just to talk about your dad for a second here, I hear all of that. I can hear so much of your dad's really amazing influence in a lot of what you're saying.

56:36

You said even raised believing these. You talk about in terms of bottom -up change, which is something your father talked about all the time, that if we're ever going to see change in society, it's going to start at the heart level of the individual.

56:49

And, of course, your dad was pointing people towards Christ, towards the gospel, towards God's word.

56:55

And so that's powerful. Can I ask you just a personal question, David? You sure may. So you are now involved in some very important high -level discussions financially.

57:07

You're sought after as somebody who has a valid opinion, an important opinion, on a lot of things going on in the world around us, especially financially.

57:15

When you have now entered into this position and you have the kind of influence you have, how has your dad's influence and all that you learn from him and just his consistency, how has that influenced you and impacted you in what you're doing now?

57:29

Do you see the world through the eyes that he gave you, and has that been a blessing for you? Yeah, every son sees the world largely through the eyes that their dad gave them, and their parents in the way that they were raised.

57:41

But in my particular case, I think it's extra special because my dad was such a profound influence ideologically.

57:49

I mean, as a father, you want, as a son, you want your father to love you, care for you.

57:58

Well, I had that in spades. I had a tremendously loving and supportive dad. The side of Greg Monson that all the folks out there have read his books and heard his lectures don't know and never will be able to, unfortunately.

58:10

But it was not something I would trade away for anything in the world. And then when you couple that with the unique giftedness of Greg Monson, the scholar, which

58:19

I think is a very different category of his life than Greg Monson, my dad.

58:25

But I did kind of get to double dip, so to speak. My dad had a profoundly rare work ethic, and I very much strive to,

58:37

I think I got that bug. I think I caught that strand of DNA, if you will.

58:42

That's obvious, yes. And so I, but also like my dad, it isn't a burden for me.

58:48

It's nothing really for me to brag about because it's a joy. I absolutely love waking up. I wake up very early.

58:54

I love working. So it isn't a sacrifice. I know what sacrifices are, and I seek to be sacrificial in certain cases, as my dad did.

59:03

But for neither my father or myself is waking up early and working hard a sacrifice. It's what we were put on earth to do.

59:10

Can you just, on that point there, David, just real fast, because it was kind of a fun thing for me. I'm aware of your dad's work ethic.

59:17

It's inspired me a lot. As a matter of fact, I hope this is an encouragement to you, David. The kind of impact we're having on this show, this show exists that you're on right now because of your dad, because of his influence on me.

59:27

But can you just tell that quick story about how you would try to beat your dad and waking up, that kind of discipline?

59:34

Yeah, it is kind of a fun story. I gotta say, I wish for a whole lot of reasons he were still here, but I have him beat now.

59:42

I mean, I couldn't beat him when he was around. Although, perhaps now,

59:47

I'm a 3 .45 a .m. guy every morning, and I suspect that if that were the case, he would just go to 3 .30

59:54

and then I'd have to go to 3 .15 or something. But yeah, there was a point,

01:00:00

I believe I was 18. It was really just a year or so, a year or two before dad died, and I was ready.

01:00:07

I was a young adult and starting off life and all the different things to go there with. It was a summertime and I had trying to start a business and I had schooling and other things going on, and I remember getting up at six in the morning, which was kind of early for someone at that age, and said,

01:00:25

I'm gonna get up and just start my day and then when dad's up and so forth, we'll kind of get things rolling for our day, and I'd go down to his study and he was already in there working, and I'd go, okay,

01:00:35

I guess I didn't get up that early. So the next day, I said I'll get up at 5 .30 and I did it and he was in there working and he didn't drink coffee by the way, and at that time

01:00:45

I didn't either. As early as I get up and as consistently as I do it now, I'm pretty heavily dependent on coffee, but how he did it without coffee is sort of unfathomable to me.

01:00:56

But I just did it like maybe, I don't know, four or five days in a row and just kept going a half hour earlier and each time he was still awake and I don't really know if he like kind of knew what

01:01:06

I was up to and was just messing with me, but essentially I got to like 4 .30 or something and he was still, he would be in there and I knew he wasn't up all night.

01:01:15

I mean he would go to bed and I was up later than him, but I knew he would gone down for the night and he just, every morning

01:01:22

I'd get up, every morning he'd already be awake where before I never knew what time he was getting up and now

01:01:29

I just said, I guess I'm not going to get to find out. I can't beat him up, but I'm quite certain that my 345 habit that I have formed would probably win the award now.

01:01:41

We'll see. Probably, probably. It's just really great to see and I think, and the reason why I ask is number one, your dad's had such a great influence on me and I just love hearing the stories and I know for a lot of our listeners and viewers it's the same for them, but a lot of what you're tackling in this book

01:01:56

I think comes down to the sorts of things that you're talking about in terms of the family, the individual, personal responsibility.

01:02:05

I mean, just those moral issues. I mean, you brought up covening, David. I mean, who talks about that anymore? Oh, well, not a lot of people do and it was very conscious to you.

01:02:16

You can talk about envy in sort of a broad sense, but to kind of go directly to the

01:02:22

Ten Commandments and whatnot was very intentional on my part, but maybe after a housing crisis that was entirely rooted about somebody covening thy neighbor's house, perhaps more people should talk about covening.

01:02:38

Yes, very much so. So, David, I so appreciate what you're doing and just really, really grateful for it.

01:02:45

You've had a lot of people actually plug this book. I saw John Frame even gave a plug recently and you've got

01:02:51

Andrew Sandlin, some solid guys that can be trusted and it's marked all up here with lots of people promoting this book.

01:03:02

So, it's Crisis of Responsibility, Our Cultural Addiction to Blame and How You Can Cure It by David Bonson. David, where can people go to get the book?

01:03:09

Where do you want them to go? Well, I mean, Amazon .com is kind of the easiest place for most people.

01:03:15

It's at Barnes and Noble as well and Barnesandnoble .com. I don't want to pick favorites in the various choices of distribution.

01:03:22

We appreciate all of the brick -and -mortar stores. It's in 1 ,500 stores around the country.

01:03:28

So, if people are mom -and -pop bookstore buyers, feel free to pick it up there and if they prefer the

01:03:35

Amazon deal like a whole lot of book buyers do, it's done extremely well at Amazon as well and they've had it discounted nicely for a while too.

01:03:44

The price has started to come up a bit, but there should be no challenge to finding it and we appreciate those who are interested in it and we've been blown away and humbled by the response to it so far.

01:03:58

The book's done very well and I'm really pleased and blessed. Well, good. I'm glad you wrote it,

01:04:04

David. I'm excited actually to get into it myself and just learn from it. So, one more fun fact before we let you go.

01:04:11

Question. Your dad, surprisingly, as theologically rigorous as he was,

01:04:17

I mean, people would see your dad and just think, man, that guy has just got God on his mind all the time and just he's forgotten more theological thoughts than I'll ever have.

01:04:26

Your dad hated Christian contemporary music, correct? Like with a passion. With a passion.

01:04:32

I'm just being gracious by putting it that way. You don't know how happy that made me because I felt the same way and I've almost felt sinful about it.

01:04:39

So, now that I know your dad was on my side, I'm excited about that. Has that influenced your musical choices, David? No, I pretty much at some point was able to formulate my own musical preferences and dad, unfortunately, was stuck as a lot of people of his generation were with this insane idea that The Beatles were the greatest band of all time and it's not something

01:04:59

I would have chosen to argue about with him but now that he's not here to whack me in the back of the head, I think most of us know that U2 was a better band than The Beatles.

01:05:08

All right, David. Thanks so much for spending time with us today. We look forward to talking to you again. Thanks so much. God bless. All right, guys. David Bonson.

01:05:14

Crisis of responsibility, guys. Our cultural addiction to blame and how you can cure it, guys. Get it. Thank you guys for watching

01:05:19

Next Week, guys. We'll be right back. Stay with us for an important next segment, guys. Welcome back, everybody.

01:05:29

Thank you all so much who attended today as a live studio audience. You guys are wonderful.

01:05:35

Thank you, guys. And thank you to everybody who's watching this across social media. I encourage you one last time to like and share the episode.

01:05:41

Let everybody know about Next Week at Jeff Draven, guys. The show with the unpopular opinion. And of course, as always,

01:05:46

I want to point you guys to EndAbortionNow .com The heartbeat of this entire show is really to engage the culture of death with the gospel and the biblical worldview.

01:05:56

Just last week, Apologia Church was able to see, we had the opportunity to watch God save a child locally at our local

01:06:03

Planned Parenthood. So that's an amazing thing. You can get involved with over 200 local churches across the

01:06:11

United States and get involved in the same work. You just go to EndAbortionNow .com You guys can go there and get free training.

01:06:18

You can get free resources. Get connected with your local church. You can start engaging this culture of death with the gospel just like churches all across the nation.

01:06:27

I want to point you guys to Apologia Studios on YouTube and of course, Apologia Studios on Facebook.

01:06:33

We just got back from Ireland, a trip where we were actually going to equip the local churches from north and south to engage the culture of abortion in Ireland.

01:06:43

It was an amazing trip. I want to encourage you guys to continue to pray as we're producing that content.

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It's being made right now. We'll show you everything that happened there and hopefully it'll be a great encouragement to you guys.

01:06:54

So that's coming very soon. Just watch Apologia Studios on our social media. You'll see that come up. But last week we had an incredible opportunity that we didn't anticipate to interview right here in this studio

01:07:06

Representative Ron Hood from Ohio. Ron is one of, I think, of about 20 sponsors of a bill in Ohio that is working to criminalize, to ban, to abolish, to end abortion in Ohio immediately.

01:07:22

Not incremental steps, but a bill that would recognize the humanity and the personhood of the child in the womb and it would criminalize the act of abortion in Ohio.

01:07:33

It's underway right now. We had him right here in the studio and this is what he said. Jeff, you really touched on the real problem we have politically in America when it comes to the abortion issue.

01:07:46

Politicians have discovered how popular it is to be pro -life. And so they want to be able to be pro -life, but they don't want to be held accountable for being pro -life.

01:07:58

So if they can vote for a parental notification bill or a parental consent bill or a

01:08:04

Down syndrome bill, which by the way, a Down syndrome bill can't even be enforced. Who's to say that's the reason why you're getting the abortion?

01:08:12

Right. So it can't even, it's not even enforceable. That's right. So you have these bills out there that these politicians vote for and then they can go home to their constituents and pound their chest and say,

01:08:22

I have 100 % pro -life voting record. Many of those politicians would never vote for even a heartbeat bill, let alone a life of conception bill.

01:08:33

And therein lies the problem because the true statesmen that want to save babies, they use elections to save babies.

01:08:42

But these politicians, they're using babies to win elections. Amazing opportunity to have that man in our studio.

01:08:52

So what you can do right now is go to endabortionnow .com. In particular, for those of you guys that live in Ohio, we have a very special tab there that is contact your legislators.

01:09:02

When you click on that tab, you put your information in and it sends a message directly to your local legislators demanding an immediate end to abortion, demanding immediate justice and it's a plea to end it.

01:09:16

And it's an encouragement to your legislators that you'll stand with them if they take bold steps. I want to encourage everybody to make contact in Ohio with of course

01:09:25

Ron Hood and the representatives who are involved in this bill. Encourage your legislator to pass this legislation, establish justice for the preborn.

01:09:33

You can do that right now. Also go to Apologia Studios on YouTube and Facebook. We have the full interview there on our social media.

01:09:42

You can like it there. You can share it. Very important thing. If we don't use these incredible tools that God has given to us to propagate the message of the gospel, to work towards the ending of abortion, then we're not using the very tools that those who support the murder of the unborn are using.

01:10:01

They are using them and they are effective at it. It's important for us to recognize the power of the share button.

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When you share the content, it's spread worldwide. Truly, the end of abortion must come from the local church.

01:10:15

It has to. We have the message of life. We have the message of salvation. We have the worldview that can make sense of this entire thing.

01:10:22

It must come from the local church. And truly, it must be grassroots. That means that it's up to us to make sure that we communicate with our local communities in the area of abortion with the gospel.

01:10:35

And we alert and notify other believers across the country and in our districts about bills like this that work to criminalize abortion and end it immediately.

01:10:46

Let me just say one final word here, guys. This is everything we've been wanting. It's the sort of legislation that we've been praying for.

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He's the kind of man, Ron Hood and others like him, that we've been praying for God to raise up.

01:10:58

Someone courageous, someone consistent, someone who'd work to actually end abortion. So all this talk, all these prayers, and all this work to end abortion, it's all happening in a moment just like this.

01:11:11

It's happened in Oklahoma before and the pro -life movement killed it. It happened in Texas before and again, it wasn't supported by the pro -life movement.

01:11:20

There are other examples across the country, Idaho, Oklahoma, where people are working to criminalize abortion right now.

01:11:27

And right now in Ohio, we have the opportunity to end, to ban, to abolish and criminalize abortion now.

01:11:34

And so it takes us, people of God, making sure that we're using our voices, communicating the truth of God, being bold, being humble, and being loving.

01:11:45

You can do that, guys. Go to EndAbortionNow to get connected and make sure you work together with us to provide all the support we can to Ron Hood and everybody working with him.

01:11:54

Thank you guys for watching Next Week with Jeff Durbin. We will see you next week, guys, of course, right here Tuesday, 10 p .m.

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Eastern Standard Time. Thank you guys for watching. Thank you for sharing. See you guys next week. Thank you. Woo!

01:12:06

Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo!