April 13, 2021 Show with Dr. Stephen J. Nichols on “R. C. Sproul: A Life”

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R. C. Sproul’s Life and Legacy

And I'm thrilled to have back a returning guest, someone whom I love to interview and I love to hear him preach at some of the conferences that I attend. His name is Dr. Stephen J. Nichols, who has received his Ph .D. from Westminster Theological Seminary in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, and he is the Chief Academic Officer for Ligonier Ministries.

He's also a Ligonier Ministries Teaching Fellow and host of the podcasts, Five Minutes in Church History, and Open Book. He's an author of more than 20 books, including Beyond the 95 Theses and A Time for Confidence, and co-editor of Crossway's Theologians on the Christian Life series.

He's the president of Reformation Bible College in Sanford, Florida, and today we are going to address what may be his most important work and perhaps even one of the most important works, especially in the form of a biography in the 21st century, R .C. Sproul A Life, which is obviously the biography of the late R .C. Sproul, a great hero of mine, and I'm sure to multitudes in our audience, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Trip and Zion Radio, Dr. Stephen J. Nichols.

Chris! Amen. Well, why don't you, for those of our listeners who are not very familiar with Reformation Bible College in Sanford, Florida, why don't you start with a brief explanation and description of that fine institution.

Oh, I'd be glad to. This college was founded in the reformation of education at the University of Hittenberg. Calvin started the academy there at Geneva. The idea was to train the next generation, and so R .C. started Reformation Bible College, doors opened in 2011, we're 10 years old, we're here in central Florida, a wonderful place to be to study theology and get grounded in God's Word and the deep things of God, and we believe that's the best education.

We called you into the pulpit to be here.

If anybody wants to find out more about Reformation Bible College, jot down this website, and I'm sure we will be announcing this later on as well, but the website is reformationbiblecollege .org, reformationbiblecollege .org.

So, I'm very curious in regard to this biography, what a daunting task and responsibility laid in anyone's hands to be the first biographer of the late R .C. Sproul, because obviously you don't want to mess anything up when you're creating such an important volume that will no doubt bless generations until the Lord returns, as far as I'm concerned.

I have that much confidence in the legacy that Dr. Sproul left that I don't think that there will be a generation that does not know about him or is unconcerned or indifferent toward him, but how did this occur where you were the one to write this biography?

Was there a race amongst those at Ligonier? Or did somebody say, guess what, you're the guy, or how did that happen?

Well, I loved her idea back in 2013. I went down here and said, what do you think about George for dinner that night? She said, sure, bring it up with him. I'm thinking about writing a biography. That's a great idea.

You have to read about me. I said, oh, I think you'd be surprised. So that was just an obligation. So many people, the impact of R .C. I was just in his life and pretty much know for certain no other book.

You mentioned something interesting about him being fun. There are a lot of people that I don't believe belong behind pulpits who are constantly in a state of having fun and trying to have their audiences have fun, and they really eclipse the gospel message and so forth.

But Dr. Sproul obviously was infinitely far away from that kind of manner. He was a brilliant intellect, and yet on deep theological issues, without candy-coating them, without watering them down, and without putting them in a lower rung of relevance or importance, he was able to have fun giving these presentations and these lectures and sermons, and it was contagious.

I don't think that I ever watched, especially, I mean I always prefer watching videos of him overhearing the audio only, although I love both, but there's something so captivating about his whole almost Columbo-like presentation.

Play that up. Yeah, I always had me riveted, and I can't recall ever watching him without having a big smile on my face. I mean, I'm sure that was something similar to your experience.

It was. You know, I think about this. He fully, Speaker Meehl, once you have your sins forgiven, that's how you put it.

I can vividly remember the first time I saw him and heard him preach, which was a simultaneous privilege, because I saw him when I was a new Christian, not very familiar with who he was or Ligonier Ministries at all.

I was a very new Christian, and someone said to me, you've got to start attending as often as you can the Philadelphia Conference on Reformed Theology. And that was when it was being held still at 10th Presbyterian Church, when Dr. James Montgomery Boyce was still with us.

This would have been in the late 1980s, and he was, R .C., was on a phenomenal roster, but I never got close to him. I never got to speak with him while there, but years later, when he was conducting a Bible conference at Calvary Baptist Church in New York City, I was honored with the privilege during a time of refreshment to actually stand face-to-face with him and have a chat.

He actually enjoyed my John Gerstner imitation and laughed and said that I did a good job. Then I had the even infinitely greater privilege of interviewing him when it did not look like it was ever going to happen, because Ligonier had seriously cut back the frequency of his doing interviews.

I was amazed that his secretary had called me and said that some folks here at Ligonier love your show, and Dr. Sproul would like to be on your program. I could have fallen off my chair. Then, for him to write an endorsement, a commendation for the show, was just mind-blowing.

I never thought that I'd get this wonderful email from his secretary. I remember her calling me and saying, Dr. Sproul has written you an endorsement, but he doesn't use a computer. Would you like me to mail it to you, or do you want me to scan it and email it to you?

I said, scan it and email it, because I wanted it immediately. That is one of my most prized possessions of my entire career. How did you first meet R .C. Sproul?

You know how these book signings were? The line would snake up a building and off go. He says, speaking in New Jersey, and he kind of looks up at him and he says, young man, if I am in New Jersey, I'm not going to say anything at this point.

I just sheepishly pushed my book across the dictionary to my student counter, back in the 90s.

Tell us something about his childhood. I believe he was born in 1939, was he not? That's right.

His dad was R .C. Sproul's grandfather, and his dad just felt like, sending all these young men off to war, that he should go. And so he enlisted in the Army Air Force. R .C. had dominated. Blackout curtains at home, and then it's the, you know, happy days.

Soda jerks. School was right there, he could walk to it. There too, so he's in the first grade. The boys were sort of chasing each other, running around the elementary school. He literally ran into running around the school.

And this was in Pittsburgh? Yes. Clemente donned a Major League uniform. Wow.

So, tell us something about his religious background growing up. I don't know how deeply religious his parents were. And tell us about the, basically, the journey he went through. Because I know that he was not always, theologically, where he wound up.

They were in church, but rather than catechize them on the way. So this is the theology that our, and as a freshman, IDs at the bars and Friday night, and obey the summons. And they say, come here. And these two guys are huddled over a Bible, and doing a Bible study together.

And they say, look at this. And the Bible's open to Ecclesiastes. It will lie. This is the verse. Not Roman's Road. They have 53 Christians in all of church history to come to that verse. I love this.

This really gives us a lot of skills.

Well, as a Reformed Baptist, I loved hearing his salvation testimony that sounded more like a Baptist testimony. Because as you probably know, I think you're a former Baptist as well, aren't you?

I think so. Well, as you probably know,.

Speaking with so many Presbyterians that were born and raised in Presbyterian families, the typical discussion, although not all the time, just like you just gave us the story of R .C.'s salvation, the typical thing that I have often heard on my own show, even when interviewing guests, is I can't remember a time I didn't believe in Jesus.

I was born and raised in the church, and was nurtured in the faith ever since I was an infant. So when I came to be aware of my conscience, as far back as I can think, I remember knowing and loving Jesus.

So it's kind of interesting to hear a different path that our Lord took with R .C. We have to go to our first break. It's going to be rather brief. If you have a question of your own, please provide your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence.

Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. Let's say you have come to agree with the theology of R .C. Sproul, and you are in a church that is vehemently opposed to Reformed theology or Calvinism.

Or perhaps you're even a pastor going through that journey, and you have a question for Dr. Stephen J. Nichols about that. We would understand you remaining anonymous under circumstances like that. But please, if it's just a general question about the life and legacy of R .C. Sproul, give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside of the USA.

Don't go away. We'll be right back after these messages with more of Dr. Stephen J. Nichols of Reformation Bible College and his biography, R .C. Sproul, A Life. Don't go away.

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R. C. Sproul on Reformed Theology and Ecclesiology

Welcome back.

If you just tuned us in, our guest today for the full two hours is Dr. Stephen J. Nichols, and he is the president of Reformation Bible College in Sanford, Florida, the college founded by the late R .C. Sproul, who went home to be with the Lord on December 14, 2017.

I can't believe it's four years already. It's amazing. And we are discussing the new biography that Dr. Stephen J. Nichols has written, R .C. Sproul, A Life. If you have any questions, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com. And give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence. So we reached a point in R .C.'s life when he realized he was a dead sinner in need of a savior, and when did he start to become this academic giant of intellect?

I mean, was this something that was early on recognized in his life as a student, or is this something that he developed?

Yeah, something he was really interested in. And obviously, we see him stand up and talk on any number of subjects without notes. Back to 1957, early years of the Ligonier Valley Study Center, they say that as he read the Old Testament, that God is a God who plays a role in who God is.

And, of course, we all know him through holiness of God. The God that Scripture declares to me,. He was an athlete, got to college on an athletic scholarship. He had a billiary, was a tremendous influence on the history of ideas, and much of R .C.'s work was apologetics.

You see that in his college years on Melville's Moby Dick, Herman Melville's Moby Dick. A nationally and perhaps even a globally known figure in the body of Christ.

How early on were his talents that recognized?

Yeah, it's entitled No Inscription. 1978, videocassette, VCR, 1970s electoral moment. There's cultural upheaval, social unrest, stated by a lot of liberal voices.

How did he come to meet one of my other heroes of the faith that I had the privilege of seeing and hearing preach on several occasions before he went home to the Lord? Dr. John Gerstner, also someone I saw and heard for the first time at the Philadelphia Conference on Reformed Theology.

Because I know that there was a close relationship, and if I'm not mistaken, perhaps even, was there a mentor-like relationship between Gerstner and Dr. Sproul? Absolutely.

He had heard Gerstner when he was a student at Westminster College. Gerstner would...

It's interesting because he developed a voice that sounded a lot like Dr. Gerstner. That's right.

So he goes to church seminary, and it's liberal. He was sort of bulletproof. I stuck with him. I was impressed. He's upper-level seminary and another student's translation. Presbytery, Dr. Gerstner's doctoral study, seminary.

R .C. brings him to... And Gerstner lived just a few miles away.

Now, I know that Dr. Gerstner held a very high view of the church and the church membership and so on, and he really held on there. People might not realize, because he was such a staunch conservative and Calvinist, that he really hung on there at the PCUSA for a lot longer than people might realize.

Who wound up jumping ship or abandoning ship? R .C. first. Huh.

See, that's surprising. That's surprising. Yeah, and, you know, retirement.

And it had nothing to do with Gerstner having liberal sympathies. It was his high view of church membership. To such an extent, I think it was to a flaw, actually.

Yeah, it was the last conservative voice for some of the younger guys at their ordination councils, and R .C. just felt like he needed to side with something rightly in the relationship.

I'm sure he greatly admired the late J .I. Packer, but at the same time, I know that R .C., as much as he loved Thomas Aquinas and viewed him as one of the key figures and great heroes of Christendom, he still took very seriously the gospel as believed by the Reformers, because it was, in his opinion and, of course, mine and yours, the biblical gospel.

And he did not believe that those lines should be crossed, and I understand he was not pleased at all with J .I. Packer's signing of the Evangelicals and Catholics Together document, which was basically a peace treaty, if you will, between Catholics and Protestants, and it seemed to disturb him, did it not?

Yeah.

We're talking about prior to... So before that, actually, I don't know if you've already discussed this, we've been friends ever since. Just before Evangelicals and Catholics Together, somebody said, do you two ever disagree with each other?

For a moment, he said something to the effect of, we're friends since the mid -70s.

Yeah, Chuck Colson was the architect of it.

Colson's the architect of it. Packer comes along and signs R .C. and Vesta with vacation, with teens off just to say anything about imputation and what a significant difference. Here it is, setting aside the Gospel.

We can have agreement. We can be together as Evangelicals and Catholics. And he's not alone. You mentioned Jim Boyce earlier. D. James Kennedy. Yeah, D. James Kennedy is with... I mean, these are like tied through the diet of birth.

Was there ever any kind of reunion between them where they began to agree more than disagree on that whole area? Yeah, I mean, I'm not saying that R .C. would have backed off, but did J .I. Packer realize at all the seriousness of his errors in signing that?

You know, I don't think so. I think some of those issues were got to evaluate this, and I think R .C. came down on the right side of that. Oh, yeah. I know that there have been quite a number of people waiting in line to have their questions asked,.

And we will get to as many of you as possible when we return from the midway break. Please be patient with us. This is the longer break in the show because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of us a longer break in the middle of the show because the FCC requires of them the localizing of Iron Trump and Zion Radio and all their programming geographically to Lake City, Florida.

That is a requirement of the FCC. So therefore, while we air our globally heard commercials in the middle of the show, they air local public service announcements and other local things that localize the program to Lake City, Florida.

So please be patient with us. Also, use this time wisely. Please write down as much of the information as possible that is provided by our advertisers so that you can more frequently and successfully patronize them or at the very least respond to them by thanking them for sponsoring the show if indeed you love the show because remember, folks, we rely upon our advertisers to exist.

The funding that comes from our advertisers is absolutely crucial for our existence. So please forgive us with the frequency of commercials, but they are necessary. So write down as much of the information as you can from our advertisers and send in questions to Dr. Stephen J. Nichols at chrisarnson at gmail .com.

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Hi, I'm Phil Johnson, host and executive director of Grace to You, the media ministry of John MacArthur. I hope you plan to join me and Chris Arnzen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, for the G3 Conference in Atlanta, Georgia, Thursday, September 30th through Saturday, October 2nd.

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And, of course, the end for which we strive is the glory of God. If you live near Franklin, Tennessee, and Franklin is just south of Nashville, maybe 10 minutes, or you are visiting this area, or you have friends and loved ones nearby, we hope you will join us some Lord's Day in worshiping our God and Savior.

Please feel free to contact me if you have more questions about Grace Church at Franklin. Our website is gracechurchatfranklin .org. That's gracechurchatfranklin .org. This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our sovereign Lord, God, Savior, and King, Jesus Christ, today and always.

Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said, Give yourself unto reading. The man who never reads will never be read. He who never quotes will never be quoted. He who will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves that he has no brains of his own.

You need to read. Solid Ground Christian Books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the Prince of Preachers to heart. The mission of Solid Ground Christian Books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to Christians in the present and future, and to publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world.