April 13, 2021 Show with Dr. Stephen J. Nichols on “R. C. Sproul: A Life”

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Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,

Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation, to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions, and now here's your host,

Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,

Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Tuesday on this 13th day of April, 2021, and I'm thrilled to have back a returning guest, someone whom

I love to interview, and I love to hear him preach at some of the conferences that I attend.

His name is Dr. Stephen J. Nichols, who has received his Ph .D. from Westminster Theological Seminary in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, and he is the chief academic officer for Ligonier Ministries.

He's also a Ligonier Ministries teaching fellow and host of the podcast,

Five Minutes in Church History, an open book. He's an author of more than 20 books, including

Beyond the 95 Theses and A Time for Confidence, and co -editor of Crossway's Theologians on the

Christian Life series. He's the president of Reformation Bible College in Sanford, Florida, and today we are going to address what may be his most important work, and perhaps even one of the most important works, especially in the form of a biography, in the 21st century,

R .C. Sproul A Life, which is obviously the biography of the late

R .C. Sproul, a great hero of mine, and I'm sure to multitudes in our audience, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Dr.

Stephen J. Nichols. Chris, thanks for having me. I am so much looking forward to this conversation about our dear friend

R .C., and just time with you and the folks listening. Amen. Well, why don't you, for those of our listeners who are not very familiar with Reformation Bible College in Sanford, Florida, why don't you start with a brief explanation and description of that fine institution?

Oh, I'd be glad to. This college was founded by R .C. Sproul, so he visited

Geneva, and he saw it, and he'd say later, Chris, I don't even have to close my eye,

I can see it in my mind's eye, and he's talking about the

Geneva Academy, which was founded by John Calvin and evolved into the

University of Geneva. But it signaled that the Reformers were about theological education.

Luther was a professor at the University of Hittenberg. Calvin started the academy there at Geneva.

The idea was to train the next generation, and so R .C. started Reformation Bible College, doors opened in 2011, we're 10 years old, we're here in central

Florida, and it's just a wonderful place to be to study theology and get grounded in God's Word and in the deep things of God, and we believe that's the best education for whatever

God calls you to do, whether He calls you into the pulpit or calls you into the pew.

So it's just a joy to be here. We have about 150 students on our campus, and they're just a delightful bunch, and it's a real blessing of God for us to be part of the work here at RBC.

Well, if anybody wants to find out more about Reformation Bible College, jot down this website, and I'm sure we will be announcing this later on as well, but the website is reformationbiblecollege .org.

So, I'm very curious in regard to this biography, what a daunting task and responsibility laid in anyone's hands to be the first biographer of the late

R .C. Sproul, because obviously you don't want to mess anything up when you're creating such an important volume that will no doubt bless generations until the

Lord returns, as far as I'm concerned. I have that much confidence in the legacy that Dr.

Sproul left, that I don't think that there will be a generation that does not know about him or is unconcerned or indifferent toward him, but how did this occur where you were the one to write this biography?

Was there a race amongst those at Ligonier, or did somebody say, guess what, you're the guy, or how did that happen?

Well, I love church history, and all the folks I had written on had died.

I had never met them, and I had this idea, what if I wrote on somebody that I could actually talk to and get to know?

This was back in 2013, Chris, it was before I came down here full -time and began working for Ligonier and had the idea for the biography.

I was down here for different things, teaching as an adjunct at the college, and would come down for Ligonier events, so on one occasion back in 2013,

I was down here, I talked to Chris Larson, who's Ligonier's president, and I said, what do you think about venturing this idea of a biography?

And I was scheduled for dinner that night with the Sprouls, and Chris said, sure, bring it up with them, see what they say, so we're having dinner, and I said to R .C.,

I'm thinking about writing a biography, and R .C. goes, great, that's a great idea, who's it on?

And I said, well, you, actually. And R .C.

puts his fork down and goes, on me? Who wants to read about me?

And I said, oh, I think you'd be surprised. So that was the first conversation about it, and the years went on,

I came down here and spent time with the Sprouls, and you know, you talk about it, sure,

I felt a tremendous obligation in writing this, I just think God so used him to impact so many people, and even,

I think we didn't realize that Ligonier, the full impact of R .C., at his death, just seemed to shine a spotlight on his impact, and so many folks expressed the appreciation for his impact.

But honestly, I had so much fun writing it, because he just was fun, and I was just in his life, and it really,

I'm not sure any other, I know, I pretty much know for certain no other book will be as much fun as writing this one, and nearly as enjoyable as this book was to write.

You know, you mentioned something interesting about him being fun. You know, there are a lot of people that I don't believe belong behind pulpits, who are constantly in a state of having fun, and trying to have their audiences have fun, and they really eclipse the

Gospel message and so forth, but Dr. Sproul, obviously, was infinitely far away from that kind of manner.

He was a brilliant intellect, and yet, on deep theological issues, without candy -coating them, without watering them down, and without putting them in a lower rung of relevance or importance, he was able to have fun giving these presentations and these lectures and sermons, and it was contagious.

I don't think that I ever watched, especially, I mean, I always prefer watching videos of him over hearing the audio only, although I love both, but there's something so captivating about his whole, almost

Columbo -like presentation, that I always had me riveted, and I can't recall ever watching him without having a big smile on my face.

I mean, I'm sure that was something similar to your experience. It was, you know,

I think about this, he fully realized the forgiveness of his sins in Christ, and to recognize that the wrath of God has been satisfied.

I mean, that's true joy, and I think that was deep -seated in R .C.

I mean, he understood sorrow and suffering. He could get very serious.

He could get righteously angry, but there was a joy to him that you just sensed, and it came out.

I remember Al Mohler would say that, you know, when it was a conference and he'd have these speaker dinners where all the speakers were together, and Al would always say that if R .C.

were there, it was just everybody's laughing, telling jokes, having a great time, and when

R .C. wasn't there, you know, a lot of these guys are introverts. It's like public figures are introverts to these boring, sort of quiet speaker meals without R .C.

But I think he, you know, once you have your sins forgiven and you stand righteous in Christ, like, you can have true joy, and I think that was

R .C., and I think people sensed that. It was genuine with him, and I love how you put it.

It's probably not the best word here, but true joy really just,

R .C. exuded it, so yeah. Oh yeah, and I can vividly remember the first time

I saw him and heard him preach, which was a simultaneous privilege, because I saw him when

I was a new Christian, not very familiar with who he was or Ligonier Ministries at all.

I was a very new Christian, and someone said to me, you've got to start attending as often as you can the

Philadelphia Conference on Reformed Theology. And that was when it was being held still at 10th

Presbyterian Church, when Dr. James Montgomery Boyce was still with us. This would have been in the late 1980s, and R .C.

was on a phenomenal roster, but I never got close to him. I never got to speak with him while there, but years later, when he was conducting a

Bible conference at Calvary Baptist Church in New York City, I was honored with the privilege during a time of refreshment to actually stand face to face with him and have a chat.

He actually enjoyed my John Gerstner imitation and laughed and said that I did a good job.

And then I had the even infinitely greater privilege of interviewing him when it did not look like it was ever going to happen, because Ligonier had seriously cut back the frequency of his doing interviews.

I was amazed that his secretary had called me and said that some folks here at Ligonier love your show, and Dr.

Sproul would like to be on your program. I could have fallen off my chair. And then for him to write an endorsement, a commendation for the show, was just mind -blowing.

I never thought that I'd get this wonderful email from his secretary.

I remember her calling me and saying, Dr. Sproul has written you an endorsement, but he doesn't use a computer.

Would you like me to mail it to you, or do you want me to scan it and email it to you? I said, scan it and email it, because I wanted it immediately.

That is one of my most prized possessions of my entire career.

How did you first meet R .C. Sproul? Well, I was at one of those

PCRTs. I was just a college kid, and a friend of mine was there at the conference.

We were there together, and he had a book for R .C. to sign.

You know how these book signings were. The line would snake up a building and off to Rittenhouse Square. And here we were, and we waited, and we got up to him.

My friend, as he pushed the book across the table to Dr. Sproul, he says, Dr. Sproul, by any chance, are you going to be speaking in New Jersey anytime soon?

And R .C. looks up at him and he says, Young man, if I am in New Jersey, it won't be by chance.

So I'm next, and I just sort of sheepishly, I'm not going to say anything at this point,

I just sheepishly pushed my book across. Get it? It's on my head. But it was years later that I came down here.

2010, I think, to do a small conference that was hosted here at our campus. And before the conference,

I had dinner with Dr. Sproul. You know, I'm all nervous. I'm cramming. I've got theological dictionaries in my suitcase. I'm sort of cramming before this.

What's he going to ask about? Are you sure? And you sit down with them, and I mean, immediately you're at ease.

They're asking about your family. Do you have any pets? Oh, you have a dog. Then it's just off to the races and talking about dogs.

And immediately you are just put at ease and just enjoying being in this moment.

So that was really just a precious memory I have. I'll call that my first official encounter.

We'll forget that first encounter back in the 90s and move on. And so tell us something about his childhood.

I believe he was born in 1939, was he not? That's right. So his dad is well past the draft age.

His dad's in an accounting firm that was founded by R .C.'s grandfather, R .C. Sproul and Sons.

His dad was one of the sons of that. And his dad chaired the draft board for Allegheny County, which is

Pittsburgh. And his dad just felt like sending all these young men off to war, that he should go.

And so he enlisted, goes in as an accountant, as a captain in the

Army Air Force. And this is like all these children who were born and came of age during World War II.

The war was very much a shaping influence, and R .C. had dominated his memories.

The blackout curtains, air raid signals. So here he is in this ten miles away from downtown

Pittsburgh, suburban neighborhood of Pleasant Hills.

But in early childhood, dominated by the war, his dad comes home and then it's the happy days.

There's the drugstore on the corner with the soda fountain and the soda jerks.

And everything's right there. The elementary school is right there, you can walk to it. The playground is right there.

The church is right there. The park where he plays Little League baseball is a mile away.

And then Vesta is right there too. So she moves into the neighborhood, her family moves into the neighborhood, when she's in the second grade and he's in the first grade.

And the legend has it that the boys were sort of chasing each other, running around the elementary school.

And R .C. literally ran into Vesta as he was running around the school.

And that was their first encounter, going back to the first and second grade. And then he just sort of kept chasing her all through high school.

And this was in Pittsburgh? Yes. He's clearly a son of Pittsburgh. There's no doubt about it.

And as a kid, I mean, this takes us back, right? This is just a whole different era.

So his parents would always let him skip school on the first day, opening day of the season. And he would hitchhike to Forbes Field.

This is long before the new field, Pittsburgh, before Three Rivers.

It was Forbes Field. And he would watch the Pirates opening day.

He was there the first day Roberto Clemente donned a Major League uniform and hit the home run.

So this was all part of his childhood and part of his experience.

Wow. So tell us something about his religious background growing up.

I don't know how deeply religious his parents were. And tell us about, basically, the journey he went through.

Because I know that he was not always, theologically, where he wound up. They were in church all the time.

And he was in church all the time. Problem was, it was a liberal church. He just wasn't preaching the gospel. And so all through junior high, high school, elementary years, he's singing in the church choir.

But it's devoid of the gospel. The pastor, there's supposed to be a Presbyterian church, but rather than catechize them on the

Westminster Shorter Catechism, the pastor wrote his own. And to give you an indication of where this is going theologically, the first question was, who is the greatest

Christian who ever lived? And the answer was supposed to be Albert Schweitzer.

So this is the theology that R .C. Sproul is getting. He goes to Westminster College, which is a historically

Presbyterian college, about an hour's drive north of Pittsburgh. But it's long since left its

Presbyterian roots and identity. He shows up there on an athletic scholarship. And as a freshman, he was about to head out of town and head over to Youngstown, Ohio, because they didn't check

IDs at the bars in Youngstown. So he was about to head out for a Friday night of partying as a college kid.

And he gets summoned over to a table by upperclassmen who are leaders of the football team, stars on the football team.

So of course R .C. is going to go and obey the summons. And they say, come here.

These two guys are huddled over a Bible and doing a Bible study together. And they say, look at this.

And the Bible's open to Ecclesiastes 12 .3. If a tree falls in the woods, there it will lie.

Whether it falls, this is the verse. Not Romans Road, not

Isaiah 53, you know, Ecclesiastes. R .C. went on to say he probably is the only

Christian in all of church history to come to salvation on that verse.

But R .C. said, and I love this. This really gives us some insight into R .C.

He said he saw it immediately. He was that tree. Dead, rotting, just fallen in the woods.

Wow. He goes back to his dorm room, gets on his knees and begs

God for mercy. Wow. And begs God to save him. And he's converted.

He's got a girlfriend, Vesta, and she's over in Worcester, and she's at an all -girls college.

He calls her, and he says he's got to talk to her. And he goes and gets her, drives her to Westminster, and is going to take her to a

Bible study on campus. But before the Bible study, he tells her what happened.

And she just gets this overwhelming conviction. And she's praying for her salvation.

And then she looks at R .C. This is what she says. I love this. She says, the Holy Spirit is real.

That's what she says. So this is their conversion, right?

Like coming out of a liberal theology context, both of them. Vesta went to the same church.

They sang in the choir together. And hearing the gospel, and literally you just see the light of the gospel coming on in their lives.

So converted as a freshman in college. And clearly, right, the rest is history.

I mean, this is a passionate young man who has a lot of skills and talents and is driven.

And now you're just going to begin to see all that passion being driven to just teach people who

God is. That's going to be R .C.'s trajectory. Well, as a Reformed Baptist, I loved hearing his salvation testimony that sounded more like a

Baptist testimony. Because as you probably know, I think you're a former

Baptist as well, aren't you? I am indeed. But, you know, I've transgressed.

I've moved over to the Presbyterian side of things. But as you probably know, speaking with so many

Presbyterians that were born and raised in Presbyterian families, the typical discussion, although not all the time, just like you just gave us the story of R .C.'s

salvation, the typical thing that I have often heard on my own show, even when interviewing guests, is,

I can't remember a time I didn't believe in Jesus. I was born and raised in the church and was nurtured in the faith ever since I was an infant.

So when I came to be aware of my conscience, as far back as I can think,

I remember knowing and loving Jesus. So it's kind of interesting to hear a different path that our

Lord took with R .C. We have to go to our first break.

It's going to be rather brief. If you have a question of your own, please provide your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence.

Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. Let's say you have come to agree with the theology of R .C.

Sproul, and you are in a church that is vehemently opposed to Reformed theology or Calvinism.

Or perhaps you're even a pastor going through that journey, and you have a question for Dr. Stephen J. Nichols about that.

Well, we would understand you remaining anonymous under circumstances like that. But please, if it's just a general question about the life and legacy of R .C.

Sproul, give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside of the

USA. Don't go away. We'll be right back after these messages with more of Dr.

Stephen J. Nichols of Reformation Bible College and his biography,

R .C. Sproul, A Life, Don't Go Away. I'm James White of Alpha Omega Ministries.

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Again, I'm Pastor Anthony Avino, and thanks for listening. Welcome back. If you just tuned us in, our guest today for the full two hours is

Dr. Stephen J. Nichols, and he is the president of Reformation Bible College in Sanford, Florida, a college founded by the late

R .C. Sproul, who went home to be with the Lord on December 14, 2017.

I can't believe it's four years already. It's amazing. And we are discussing the new biography that Dr.

Stephen J. Nichols has written, R .C. Sproul, A Life. If you have any questions, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

And give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence. So we reached a point in R .C.'s

life when he realized he was a dead sinner in need of a savior. And when did he start to become this academic giant of intellect?

I mean, was this something that was early on recognized in his life as a student, or is this something that he developed?

Yeah, something that happened very quickly after his conversion. And this was a big part of the story

I was interested in. You know, we know Dr. Sproul, we come to know him through Renewing Your Mind, or through his books, or through his conference speaking in the 90s and the 0s.

But I was really interested in, and obviously, clearly, there's a foundation there.

You know, we see him stand up and talk on any number of subjects without notes. But you know there's a foundation there.

And that foundation, from the time of his conversion, which goes back to 1957, really into those early years of the

Ligonier Valley Study Center in the 1970s, that was just a time of building that foundation.

As soon as he's converted, he just devours God's Word. And he talked about this often,

Chris. He would say that as he read the Old Testament, he came to this realization that God is a

God who plays for keeps. And you almost see right from day one this sense of who

God is. And of course, we all know him through holiness of God and chosen by God, and just how he labored tirelessly to point people not to the

God they think should be, but the God that Scripture declares to be.

And you see that early on. He was not a good student in high school.

He could care less. He was an athlete, got to college on an athletic scholarship.

He had ability, no doubt, but he didn't apply himself. And he had a professor in college,

Thomas Gregory, was Westminster Theological Seminary trained, and had a tremendous influence on him.

And it was through Gregory that R .C. studied philosophy and began to see the importance of understanding the history of ideas.

And much of R .C.'s work was apologetics. You see that in his college years.

He wrote his bachelor's thesis on Melville's Moby Dick, the existential implications of Herman Melville's Moby Dick.

He's got a line in there, Chris. It's amazing. You know, he's 21 years old. He's got a line in there that talks about how

Captain Ahab represents the shallow religious views of mankind.

Wow. And I remember seeing that and thinking, this is the holiness of God.

Like, this is the first plank in what will become the holiness of God.

It goes on to seminary studies under John Gershner. You can impersonate him, apparently.

So Gershner, you know, R .C. said, I'm just towering intellectual.

This is Christianity for the tough -minded, Gershner. These were his mentors. And he's pouring over God's Word.

I was able to use his Bible from the 60s. It's fallen apart. It's ripped to shreds.

It's taped. It's rebound. You just see him building that foundation.

You see his books from the 60s. They're underlined, margin notes, and all that study.

God was just using all of that for the teacher that would come in the next decades.

Now, when did he become a nationally and perhaps even a globally known figure in the body of Christ?

How early on were his talents that recognized? Yeah, so he starts

Ligonier Valley Study Center 50 years ago, summer of 1971.

And he writes a couple books, writes a book on the Apostles' Creed, writes a book on marriage, writes an early book called

Knowing Scripture by University Press. That was after Packer's Knowing God, and it was purposely entitled

Knowing Scripture. Sort of be a follow -up book that R .C. wrote. But I think the

International Council for Biblical Inerrancy, the ICBI, which goes on to produce the

Chicago Statement on Biblical Inerrancy in 1978, R .C. was a crucial figure in that.

And I think that really was part of the piece that sort of elevated him to a national platform.

And then the teaching just took off. Nobody was doing this. They were creating these long -form teaching series for laity.

Nobody was doing this in the 70s and 80s. And R .C. was doing this on videocassette.

Nobody was doing that. In those early years, they had to mail VCR players to churches so they could watch videocassettes.

Wow. They didn't have VCR. This was in the mid -70s. This is cutting -edge technology.

But the tapes are going out, and I think it just met a need.

These were complex times, the 1970s. A lot of parallel, I think, to our cultural moment.

There was cultural upheaval, social unrest, political scandal, and the church was dominated by a lot of liberal voices.

And here's this guy in the hills of western Pennsylvania just teaching people theology.

And I think it just began to take. So then in the mid -80s is when Ligonier really becomes a sort of national ministry, moves to Orlando, and R .C.

publishes The Holiness of God, Chosen by God. In a few years,

Renewing Your Mind is going to come on the radio every day. And that's how so many people came to know

R .C., through those things. Now, how did he come to meet one of my other heroes of the faith that I had the privilege of seeing and hearing preach on several occasions before he went home to the

Lord? Dr. John Gerstner, also someone I saw and heard for the first time at the

Philadelphia Conference on Reform Theology. Because I know that there was a close relationship, and if I'm not mistaken, perhaps even...

Was there a mentor -like relationship between Gerstner and Dr. Sproul?

Absolutely. So he meets Gerstner at Pittsburgh Seminary. He had heard Gerstner when he was a student at Westminster College.

Gerstner would come up and teach, speak. But he didn't like him the first time he heard him. He thought he was sort of harsh.

It's interesting because he developed a voice that sounded a lot like Dr. Gerstner. That's right. So he goes to Pittsburgh Seminary, and it's liberal.

I mean, it's a liberal seminary. Gerstner was there because of a merger, and he was sort of bulletproof.

He came with the merger, and they were stuck with him. So he was tenured and was bulletproof.

And R .C. wrote that Gerstner was his lifeline during those three years in seminary.

And again, R .C. was impressed by Gerstner's mind, but he was impressed by his just love for the truth.

And so Gerstner took a liking to R .C. He would do these upper -level seminars where it was basically R .C.

and another student sitting in Gerstner's office. He did a whole course on the

Council of Trent with Gerstner. And they had one textbook. It was the creeds from the

Council of Trent, and the first half was in Latin, the second half was in English translation. And I have that book.

It's full of notes. And in the margins, R .C. will write, Gerstner says, blah, blah, blah.

Well, he's like sitting there with Gerstner and writing notes in the book as they're studying this together.

What a privilege, right? Remains friends with Gerstner. They're in the presbytery together there in Pittsburgh.

Gerstner helps him get to Amsterdam for his doctoral studies. Gerstner assists him there at the

Ligonier Valley Study Center. And then, as Gerstner's retiring from the seminary,

R .C. brings him to Ligonier as a teacher and as a teacher -in -residence. And Gerstner lived just a few miles away from the study center.

He lived in Ligonier the whole time he taught at Pittsburgh. And so they were friends really through all those decades.

And Gerstner was truly a mentor and a lifeline for R .C. Now, I know that Dr.

Gerstner held a very high view of the church and the church membership and so on.

And he really held on there. People might not realize because he was such a staunch conservative and Calvinist that he really hung on there at the

PCUSA for a lot longer than people might realize. Who wound up jumping ship or abandoning ship?

R .C. first. Huh. That's surprising. That's surprising. Yeah. And, you know,

I write about it in the book. It was an interesting moment for R .C.

and Gerstner to not be on the same page. And, you know, I think some of it was age.

R .C. was younger, starting out, had the whole career ahead and thought, this is a seminary, you know, do

I want to be a part of this? Gerstner was older, nearing retirement. And Gerstner stayed in a lot longer than R .C.

did. But while they disagreed over, you know, coming out or staying in, they had a deep mutual respect for each other.

But it was probably the only time that the two of them were not on the same page at that moment.

And it had nothing to do with Gerstner having liberal sympathies. It was his high view of church membership to such an extent.

I think it was to a flaw, actually. Yeah, and it was

Gerstner's thinking that he needed to be a conservative.

If he was going to be the last conservative voice, he still saw himself as a conservative voice.

And, you know, R .C., part of it honestly was that R .C. saw how they were gunning for some of the younger guys at their ordination councils.

And R .C. just felt like he needed to side with some of the younger guys coming up and move over to the

PCA with them. So it was not something that was done lightly or done in a way that was either causing a rift between the two of them.

It's really an interesting moment in the relationship. Now, I'm sure he greatly admired the late

J .I. Packer. But at the same time, I know that R .C.,

as much as he loved Thomas Aquinas and viewed him as one of the key figures and great heroes of Christendom, he still took very seriously the gospel as believed by the

Reformers, because it was, in his opinion, and of course mine and yours, the biblical gospel.

And he did not believe that those lines should be crossed. And I understand he was not pleased at all with J .I.

Packer's signing of the Evangelicals and Catholics Together document, which was basically a peace treaty, if you will, between Catholics and Protestants.

And it seemed to disturb him, did it not? Yeah, that probably is the saddest moment in R .C.'s

life. We're talking about 1994. So the first time he meets

Packer is 1973. Ligonier put on a conference on inerrancy.

Curiously enough, that's the same year Knowing God came out. But before that, Packer's first book was called

Fundamentalism and the Word of God, and took a strong stand on the authority of Scripture.

And because of that book, R .C. invited him to come and speak at the Ligonier conference on inerrancy. And they were friends ever since, close friends.

Just before Evangelicals and Catholics Together, Packer was at a

Ligonier national conference, and they were in one of these Q &A panels, and somebody said, do you two ever disagree with each other?

And R .C. thought for a moment, and he said, no, I can't think of a time we disagree.

And I think he said something to the effect of, we're foxhole buddies. We're in this.

Well, then comes out E .C .T. And it's not just Packer, it's also

Chuck Colson. R .C. and Chuck were good friends in the mid-'70s. Yeah, Chuck Colson was the architect of it.

Colson's the architect of it. Packer comes along and signs it. And these are his friends, like R .C.

and Vesta would vacation with the Colsons. And they were friends. And so here comes

E .C .T. And E .C .T. sort of quarantines off justification, doesn't really say anything about imputation, and what a significant difference there is between Roman Catholicism and Evangelicals on Catholicism, I'm sorry, on imputation.

But here it is, setting aside what are the essential doctrines of the

Gospel, and saying, we can have agreement, we can be together as Evangelicals and Catholics, we just bracket off these doctrines.

And, of course, R .C. is going to say, this isn't right. This is the Gospel we're talking about.

And he's not alone. You mentioned Jim Boyce earlier. So Jim Boyce is siding with R .C.

John MacArthur is siding with R .C. D. James Kennedy? Yep, D.

James Kennedy is with... I mean, these are like titans in the mid-'90s, in the Evangelical world.

And this is a huge risk. But R .C., I call that chapter in the book,

Stand. Because that is where R .C. took a stand. This is, here we are, 500th anniversary of the

Diet of Worms, you know? Here I stand. This is R .C., and he thought the

Gospel was at stake. But he didn't do this with any sense of joy or glee.

It was a hard thing for him. You know, I think this is what

I appreciated about R .C. He just wanted to bring clarity to theological issues.

Because he thought that's what people needed. They just needed clarity. What does God's Word say on this issue?

And that sort of drove him. And if that meant a rift and a friendship, then that is a truly unfortunate consequence.

But that's what it means. And so, yeah, this was a hard moment and a rift and two very serious friendships for him, both with Packer and with Chuck Colson.

Was there ever any kind of reunion between them where they began to agree more than disagree on that whole area?

I mean, I'm not saying that R .C. would have backed off, but did J .I.

Packer realize at all the seriousness of his errors in signing that? You know,

I don't think so. He wrote a piece, at the time he was one of the editors of Crochet Today, and he wrote a piece,

Why I Signed It, as a sort of response to the dustup that it had caused.

And he never really backed off and never really responded to the challenges from R .C.

and Boyce and MacArthur. You know, I think it's one of those issues where history's got to evaluate this, and I think

R .C. came down on the right side of that. Oh, yeah. But it is just one of those sad moments in that era.

Well, I know that there have been quite a number of people waiting in line to have their questions asked, and we will get to as many of you as possible when we return from the midway break.

Please be patient with us. This is the longer break in the show because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1

FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of us a longer break in the middle of the show because the FCC requires of them the localizing of Iron Trump and Zion Radio and all their programming geographically to Lake City, Florida.

That is a requirement of the FCC. So, therefore, they, while we air our globally heard commercials in the middle of the show, they air local public service announcements and other local things that localize the program to Lake City, Florida.

So, please be patient with us. Also, use this time wisely. Please write down as much of the information as possible that is provided by our advertisers so that you can more frequently and successfully patronize them or, at the very least, respond to them by thanking them for sponsoring the show, if, indeed, you love the show.

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So, please forgive us with the frequency of commercials, but they are necessary. So, write down as much of the information as you can from our advertisers and send in questions to Dr.

Stephen J. Nichols at chrisarnson at gmail .com. chrisarnson at gmail .com.

As always, give us your first name at least, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the

USA and only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. We'll be right back after these messages.

Back together again, yeah. Back together again, yeah.

Hi, I'm Phil Johnson, host and executive director of Grace to You, the media ministry of John MacArthur.

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That's ptlbiblerebinding .com Music As host of Iron Trump and Zion Radio I frequently get requests from listeners for church recommendations.

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Good to be back, Chris. I always enjoy our time here. I have to tell you, you're one of the better interviewers out there, and I've been doing this for 30, more than 30 years.

Wow, that's some compliment. How much do I owe you for that? You don't have to owe me anything.

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Tell your friends and loved ones about Iron Trump and Zion Radio airing live Monday through Friday 4 to 6 p .m.

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Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support

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This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our

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Before we return to Stephen J. Nichols and our discussion on his biography of the late R .C.

Sproul, who just went home to be with the Lord nearly four years ago, December 14th, 2017, we are discussing

R .C. Sproul, A Life, which is the new biography by Stephen J. Nichols, quite a hefty biography over 350 pages long.

But before we return to that and to our listener questions, I just have some important announcements to make.

You've been hearing the ads that we air every day for the G3 Conference in Atlanta, Georgia. I hope that you join me there.

I will be manning an exhibitor's booth there, so I hope you come and greet me if you do attend and say hello and possibly

I could squeeze in an interview with you. I will be doing on -site interviews and recording them for future broadcasting.

But please keep in prayer Voti Baucom. Voti Baucom, who was originally on the roster, may not be healthy enough to speak at the

G3 Conference this fall. He may be. God may bless us with his presence, but as many of you may have heard, he had quadruple bypass surgery after a real setback health -wise.

He has been recovering in Jacksonville, Florida. And I just ask of you to keep him and his family in your prayers.

He is such a gift to the body of Christ, such a treasure, and we need him around a long time here on earth.

So please keep praying for Voti Baucom. Also, folks, if you love this show and you don't want it to disappear from the airwaves, please go to www .IronTrepperZineRadio

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Just send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com chrisarnson at gmail .com and put advertising in the subject line.

I almost said I need a church because that's my next announcement. If you are not a member of a

Bible -believing church, no matter where on the planet earth you live, I may be able to help you find one because I have extensive lists of biblically sound, theologically faithful churches all over the globe and I have recommended and referred people in our audience all over the planet earth to churches, some of whom have joined these churches and these churches sometimes, to the amazement of my listeners, were right around the corner from where they live or at least a very short distance from them.

They didn't even know these churches existed or they didn't know that the churches were theologically sound. So, you might be in that category.

You might have a church near you that you didn't even know was a biblically faithful church. So, send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com

and put I need a church in the subject line and perhaps I can help you find a church. That's also the email address where you can send in a question to Dr.

Stephen J. Nichols on the life of R .C. Sproul. The specific title of his new biography is

R .C. Sproul, A Life. That's chrisarnson at gmail .com chrisarnson at gmail .com Give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the

USA. And we do have a listener question from Andrew in New York City.

What led R .C. to write The Holiness of God? In his book and lecture series,

R .C. talked extensively about Martin Luther's conversion. It may seem obvious, but how did that tie into that theme?

So he preached on Uzzah back in the late 1960s.

And of course that biblical episode ends up in the book. But in 1970, he was invited to give lectures at a

Young Life conference up in Saranac, New York.

And he was told to speak on five sessions. And he thought he could develop this idea of the holiness of God over these five sessions.

And so he did. Then it was one of the early teaching series they put on cassette tapes at the study center a couple years later.

And then when they brought the video cameras in to record video cassette teaching, the very first one they did was

The Holiness of God, which was filmed actually in what would have been Sproul's family living room, which had doubled as the lecture hall back in those days at the study center.

But I think this is, and then of course it becomes the book and the classic text and gets published in 1985.

And the series gets redone later and more of a studio kind of a thing. But it really gets to the heart of, right from the beginning of R .C.'s

conversion and his understanding of who God is. And he just saw that the church, how does

David Wells put it? God rests casually on the shoulders of the American church.

And here he is reading about us, Isaiah in Isaiah chapter six,

Luther, Augustus, these Mount Everest of church history who just had this vision of who

God is and out comes the book. I mean, it's everything. It's drama, it's theology, it's philosophy, it's church history, it's dramatic texts from scripture which

R .C. loved. So the holiness of God is really the,

I think I put at one point in the book the main story of R .C.'s

story is the holiness of God. Wow.

Well thank you Andrew in New York City. And guess what? If you give me your full mailing address you've just won a free copy of R .C.

Sproul A Life by Stephen J. Nichols compliments of our friends at Crossway and also compliments of our friends at Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service cvbbs .com

who will be actually shipping it out to you at no cost to you or to Iron Trip and Zion Radio.

Keep listening to Iron Trip and Zion and spreading the word about the program in New York City. We have

John in Bangor, Maine who says were the things that you were dying to put in the biography but just didn't have enough room to include them that would be fascinating to us in the audience today?

A personal story so when we dedicated the new building here for the college

R .C. was alive for that wasn't alive when we moved into it we had a little dedication ceremony we got the golden shovel you know the whole nine yards and we got

R .C. a dealer's construction helmet to wear for the occasion with his dark suit and striped tie of course and before this

I went out and I cut a little piece of the sod and I lifted it up from the soil and had it sort of separated and I told

R .C. I got it all ready for you we go out there I'll take my shoe and I'll just sort of point my toe right where you can put the shovel dig it up and we'll be good to go well

R .C. you know gets the shovel I point, he digs it up then he looks at me looks at my shiny black dress shoes looks at the shovel that has dirt and grass on it and then he gets his characteristic you know joker sized grin and flicks the shovel and the dirt flies right onto my shiny black dress shoes and he loved to tease and I came so close to putting that in the book but well

I'll follow that up with a question of my own what was your favorite story or anecdote from the book that you included in it oh oh wow that's ok so it has to be this this reflects poorly on Sinclair Ferguson but I love him and he can forgive me he's a gracious man so so there was one of these speaker dinners they were at a conference it was at R .C.

loved to eat after he spoke so it's late at night there's some restaurant somewhere and it's a teaching fellow this is back in 2010, 2011

I wasn't there um Steve Lawson's there Sinclair's there R .C.'s there

Sinclair starts telling this story about he was so just bone tired preaching at a conference one time he gets up into the pulpit he's so exhausted he just conflates the parable of the

Good Samaritan with the um I forget which now

I'm forgetting he conflates two parables and the prodigal son the parable of the prodigal son and the

Good Samaritan and the more he preaches the more intertwined these stories become he's mixing up all the details

I mean it's a it's a train wreck of a sermon so Sinclair's telling this story and R .C.

is laughing so hard that he literally broke a rib

Steve Lawson's brother is a doctor really? he actually broke a rib laughing?

so he so R .C.'s having difficulty breathing he's laughing so hard they go and get Steve Lawson's brother he comes and he diagnoses that he broke a cracked a rib that he just laughs so hard Sinclair's I don't think he was

I did not think R .C. was able to speak the next day the conference a lot of people don't realize how funny

Sinclair Ferguson is he may seem like he's just as serious as a heart attack theologian but I was on a very long car ride with him from Long Island to Connecticut with a deacon in my church and I gave him transportation to a speaking engagement in Connecticut after he had already preached at the church on Long Island where we were members and I was just in stitches by this man he's a very funny man he is and such a dear

I had him as a professor at Westminster Seminary Sinclair is a dear man but that's a funny one and then when

R .C. remembers it like this two years later anytime he retells the story he would just start cracking up again like it was almost more fun than retelling the story so that made it into the book and I want to thank

John and Bangor Maine for the original question and give us your mailing address John because you've also won

R .C. Spurl of Life compliments of Crossway and also compliments of Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service CVBBS .com

we'll be shipping it out to you here is a controversial question but I think a very important one actually we have

Joseph in South Central Pennsylvania who said it seems that our dear brother

R .C. went home to be with the Lord before the actual height of the controversies that are boiling right now with the woke movement the irony here is that R .C.

was a very instrumental figure in the lives of many black Christians who had become theologically reformed by reading him and hearing him preach.

Do you think that R .C. would have a loving and warm but stern word of rebuke for them in the 21st century after he has departed this earth if he was still here?

I really appreciate the question Joseph I think first of all you know when

I one of the things I did appreciate about R .C. was he truly thought about people theologically and by that what

I mean is he understood that every single person was made in the image of God and because they are in the image of God they demand my respect because they are creatures of dignity

I think one of R .C.'s great books that would help us think well at this time is his book

In Search of Dignity which has been republished by our friends over at PNR as The Hunger for Significance and it's just such a wonderful anthropology, a

Doctrine of Man book that just helps us think theologically as far as what he would say at this moment

I think he would be sad to see how these issues have fractured the church, ricocheted in the church and I think he would do what he always did he tended not to get caught up in the headlines he tended not, you go look at Ligonier's blog, you know we're not just sort of founding off on whatever is on the

Wall Street Journal front page he just wanted to offer, he always thought the most timely answer was the timeless answer and so he would just be telling us what does the

Bible say about human dignity what does the Bible say about human identity if you're talking about critical race theory, well sure this is a big question, human identity what does the

Bible say about it what does the Bible say about justice what does the

Bible say about respecting one another what does the Bible say about how we should conduct ourselves in our speech

I think he would just want us to be asking the right questions and thinking theologically about what we are facing

I love it, appreciate the question and I think I would point you to Hunger for Significance and see that some of the theology there is just right over the plate and I think it could be helpful for us

Thank you Joseph and also you have won a free copy of R .C. Sproul A Life, make sure we get your mailing address, thanks again to Crossway and CVVBS .com

for getting these free copies in the hands of a limited number of our listeners Here is another controversial question and I know that there is going to be disagreement over what our listener is asking about as to whether it's a liberty or a sin it's kind of interesting the way he phrases this, but he says hello brothers, we all have sins and vices that others can point out, one of the

Spurgeons was smoking cigars, now obviously there is a lot of people throwing things at their computer screens and radios because they believe there is nothing wrong with that right now, that was my commentary by the way with Dr.

Sproul it was cigarettes did others criticize him about his smoking, I didn't even know that Dr.

Sproul smoked cigarettes, but do you have an answer for Grady in Asheboro, North Carolina I'm sorry if I forgot to mention who that was

Grady is a very faithful listener and generous supporter of this program yeah, thanks

Grady I mentioned this, I don't dwell on it a lot in the book, but I do mention it it was something he struggled with at one point the thing about writing a biography of R .C.

is you could almost write a biography just by reading his books and watching his teaching series he very much was a sort of lived theology and you find just all these anecdotes peppered throughout his books but in one of his teaching series he talked about how he struggled with cigarettes, and he did smoke he wished he could give them up and he actually struggled with this he wrestled with I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me and he would claim that promise but then he had difficulty giving up smoking so I think he

I'll answer your question specifically, you asked did he get criticism, he criticized himself for it and I think he probably would have preferred never having started it in the first place but there it is that was actually

Grady who asked if he was criticized, Grady, I'm sorry Grady I heard Brady, so I apologize Grady, thank you

Grady, make sure we have your full mailing address, Nashville, North Carolina you've also won R .C.

Sproul Alive thank you for being such a faithful supporter of this program we have

Bobby in Hartsdale, New York and Bobby said, what was

R .C. Sproul's area of real anger when it came to the theological climate of the 21st century before he departed this earth wow where do you begin?

okay, so we can talk about this generically so generically, it was just the apathy towards theology

R .C. just didn't understand that how could you not see that loving

God required you to know who God is and to know who

God is, is theology and the fact that so many in contemporary evangelicalism had driven a wedge between I just want to love

God and that sort of statement and theology and that really bothered him it made him just all the more want to show them how meaningful theology was as far as particular doctrines go towards the end of his life he had a great concern for how poor our

Christology was and it was part, that was a big part of the animus behind Ligonier producing the

Christology statement so if you're not familiar with that we actually have a website for it, it's thechristologystatement .com

it's in multiple languages it's there, it's a statement with affirmations and denials it was something we worked on in 2016 and put out and so, or 15 maybe one or the other and that was something that very much concerned him, a sloppy

Christology because this is the gospel we're talking about who Christ is, the person and work of Christ, the doctrine of Christology was very much a concern for him and a sloppiness and just a lack of desire to study it in the

American church concerned him well brother you have also received a free copy of R .C.

Sproul A Life by Stephen J. Nichols thanks for sending in the question we have let's see here, we have

C .J. in Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York who wants to know who was the greatest living hero of R .C.

Sproul who was actually a contemporary of his I know a lot about those that lived centuries before him that he loves to speak about and write about but that is a good question because I wouldn't be able to answer that question can you?

as a kid, Frank Sinatra HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA I mean his heroes were all dead.

It was Augustine, Luther, Calvin, Edwards, Turretin, Hodge, Machen.

Those were his heroes. I think his mentors, those would be

Thomas Gregory and John Gershner. His friends, that would be

Jim Boyce, clearly. They were foxhole buddies.

John MacArthur. RC calls MacArthur Boris. Remember Boris, the former president of the union that would ride in the tank?

So RC said, that's you John. How did he handle that?

I mean John MacArthur. John loved it. Are you kidding? In fact John said that's the one thing he misses the most.

There's nobody around to call him Boris anymore. And the teaching fellows.

These were his friends. Bob Godfrey, Steve Lawson, Sinclair Ferguson, Derek Thomas, Burke Parsons.

These were RC's friends. I'd say living, he just had a lot of friends that were really meaningful to him and that he truly cared about.

A question from Mike in Monroe, New York. May your guest comment on how RC Sproul felt about being criticized, not for studying philosophy and philosophers, but acknowledging their value as thinkers on profound subjects like the infamous

Jean -Paul Sartre? His love and appreciation for philosophy, I believe, really commended him as a well -prepared and well -rounded man of God.

Also, I loved his down -to -earth mannerisms as he connected so well with the average layman in the church.

He made philosophy, however complicated, simple for the non -academician. Yeah. Great, Mike.

I really appreciate this. You know, I would do these interview sessions where I'd go over to RC's house and we'd just put a little player on and I'd just interview him and we'd just walk through his life.

One session we were talking about college and when he transferred his major to philosophy,

Vesta would sometimes sit on the couch and just sort of listen and she'd be going through the mail or she'd be editing stuff from Ligonier.

And when RC mentioned that he went down to the registrar's office and changed his major to philosophy because of Thomas Gregory, Vesta says, and that made all the difference.

And it was just an observation. There was something to RC's teaching.

And I think it's because he came out of liberalism he appreciated the truth, but also because he was such a student of the history of philosophy.

And it just gave sort of an apologetic angle to what he was doing. One of my favorite books of his is his book,

The Consequences of Ideas. And it's just a wonderful book that anyone without a background in philosophy,

I think, can benefit from. I was in Hattiesburg, Mississippi and I had rented a car.

I was taking it back and heading to the airport and the person at the rental car counter saw my credit card and said,

Ligonier Ministries. And he says to me, Ligonier Ministries, I was just listening to Brother Sproul this morning on Aristotle.

And I'm cracking up and he walks me back from the car to the little shuttle van and we're talking about Aristotle.

And it was because of this lecture from RC. So yeah, I think it was part of the secret sauce of RC's uniqueness.

And it came to him in college and then through seminary and his graduate work, The Study of Philosophy.

But I think it shows up in his teaching. It's great. Great observation,

Mike. Great question. Thank you for the excellent question, Mike. And make sure we have your full mailing address in Monroe, New York, so that Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, cvbbs .com,

can ship that book out to you. Thanks again to Crossway for providing the book for free.

We have a listener who is a lover of the life and legacy of R .C.

Sproul, who I will give his full name since he promotes this show nearly daily on his

Facebook page, which is called Twist House. T .W

.I .S .S .E., which is named after the great English theologian William Twist.

And this is a reformed Anglican I'm speaking of, Donald Veatch. And we always appreciate

Donald's enthusiasm for promoting the show and spreading the word about it, especially among Anglicans.

He says, Dr. Nichols, I knew R .C. going back to the first PCRT in 1974 in Philadelphia.

Knew him and Vesta through the years. This scribe has his own fake.

I'm sorry. This scribe has his own take. A most high one. Having written your book, what are the chief legacy items of R .C.?

An executive summary, projects for the next generation because of R .C.,

and if you see Vesta, tell her it was the Navy chaplain. Glad you are at Reformation Bible College and got your

PhD from Westminster Theological Seminary. Regards, Phil Veatch. Sorry for butchering your question there a little bit,

Brother Veatch, but was that intelligible for you,

Dr. Nichols? I have plenty of fodder to go on with that one. So first of all,

I will be sure to pass this on to Vesta. The coded message will make it to her.

So I'll make sure she gets it. After I get him establishing the study center at Ligonier, I devote chapters to what

I think are going to be his four centers of focus and legacy. So one is on apologetics, and I think that is clearly one.

He's known for a particular approach to apologetics, classical apologetics.

Along with his mentor Gershner and Art Lindley, they published a book called Classical Apologetics, the year before holiness came out, by the way, so 1984.

So I definitely think, as time goes on, and in the

Reformed world, and this is the cryptic reference to Westminster Seminary, so I picked up on that, too.

In the Reformed world, it seems to be dominated by presuppositional apologetics, from Van Til, of course, at Westminster.

And R .C. was on the other side of that. And I think there's a little resurgence right now in the classical view, and I think over time, you're going to see the classical view becoming more and more prominent.

That's one prong of the legacy. The second is clearly the holiness of God, and I think it's going to be the dominant legacy.

It comes from his book, The Holiness of God, 1985. It clearly exempts us. It is in our mission statement at Ligonier Ministries.

Our mission is to defend and to promote the holiness of God in all of its fullness to as many people as possible.

I don't know, John Piper commented on, I've never heard of another

Christian organization that has the holiness of God in its mission statement. I think a third emphasis is what we were talking about earlier, and his stand for the

Gospel, and sola fide. In fact, I think you could tie into that just the emphasis on the sola.

I think R .C., more than any other person, probably introduced a lot of people to the

Reformation solas, and introduced that as a helpful paradigm to grasp the essence of Reformation doctrine.

So, the emphasis on sola fide that clearly comes out there in his emphasis there on stand.

I think the other thing is more of a method, and that is he was a populist.

He took the message to the people, and I think that that's going to be part of his legacy.

He spoke to the laity, and not in ways of dumbing things down, but just in ways of bringing concepts to them without all of the academic technicalia.

I think as time marches on, we'll see that as part of his legacy. Ultimately, what

I'm trying to say here is he was a communicator, and an amazing one.

So, those are some of the things that I think are his legacy. Well, thank you,

Donald, and please keep spreading the word about Iron Trump and Zion Radio in Jacksonville, North Carolina, and to the

Anglican community through Twist House on Facebook. You've been a huge encouragement, brother.

Thanks a lot for the excellent question. We have Murray in Kinross, Scotland.

Thank you for sharing the link for the statement on Christology. Did R .C. Sproul himself write on the subject of Christology, and did he recommend other authors on the subject?

Yeah, he's got a great book called The Glory of Christ, and I would definitely recommend that.

I sort of like that one because, Chris, I found the manuscript for it.

It's all written out on yellow legal pads. And, I mean, these chapters are flawless.

He would sit and write out a chapter flawlessly.

I'm not talking about page. A chapter. And sometimes at the end of the chapter, he would put footnotes from memory of where the books are from.

And, I mean, when I handwrite stuff, I've got cross -outs and false starts. This thing almost goes right from manuscript to page.

Anyway, I'm digressing from the question. But, yeah, Glory of Christ, I think as far as authors go.

So, okay, if you're ready, here are his big theologians that he loved,

Calvin and Calvin's Institutes. So, you can do yourself no wrong whatsoever by getting a good copy of the

Institutes and working your way through it. He also loved the theologian

Francis Turretin. And PNR has published a three -volume eclectic theology of Francis Turretin.

It's hefty. It's a big deal. It's a tough go. But he would definitely recommend

Turretin. So, Calvin and Turretin are some theologians from the past that he would recommend and I think would point you to as good sources, especially for Christology.

And then the other thing I would point you to is that there's the Christology Statement.

I'm glad you found the website. On there, you'll see a series of affirmations and denials.

So, I think there's 26 of them. I think those would be helpful for you to study.

And there's biblical texts there with each of those. So, to sort of plunge then from those statements into the biblical texts could be a helpful enterprise.

Well, thank you, Murray and Ken Ross Scott. And please keep listening to Iron Trip and Zion Radio and spreading the word about this program throughout the

UK and beyond. We're going to our final break right now. It's going to be much shorter than the other ones. So, don't go away.

We're going to be right back with the conclusion of our discussion with Dr. Stephen J. Nichols and R .C.

Sproul Alife. Don't go away. If you love

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Thanks for helping to keep Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio on the air. Hello, dear ones.

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Lynnbrook Baptist Church on 225 Earl Avenue in Lynnbrook, Long Island, is teaching God's timeless truths in the 21st century.

Our church is far more than a Sunday worship service. It's a place of learning where the scriptures are studied and the preaching of the gospel is clear and relevant.

It's like a gym where one can exercise their faith through community involvement. It's like a hospital for wounded souls where one can find compassionate people and healing.

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Call Lynnbrook Baptist at 516 -599 -9402. That's 516 -599 -9402.

Or visit lynnbrookbaptist .org. That's lynnbrookbaptist .org. Welcome back. Dr. Nichols, you should be interested and pleased to know that one of the ads that I have been playing throughout the program for the

Historical Bible Society, which is an organization founded by Daniel P.

Buttafuoco, attorney at law, who also has an ad running for his law firm in the show, back in the 90s,

Dan was an Arminian and an elder in an

Assemblies of God congregation, and I gave him as a Christmas present,

Grace Unknown by R .C. Sproul, which I believe has a different title right now.

That might be what is reformed. What is the reformed faith? Yes. And Dan said to me,

I can remember when I gave this to him, when he was visiting my office, he said,

Are you kidding me? You're giving me propaganda for Christmas? I got a call on New Year's Day, early in the morning, actually.

And he said, Chris, I haven't been asleep. I've been reading this book all night. I believe every word now.

I'm reformed. And he has maintained his belief in reformed theology ever since.

He's still a Pentecostal, but he has clung to the reformed faith ever since.

I love it. Well, I'd like you to, before we run out of time, make sure you have several minutes of uninterrupted time to really summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today when it comes to R .C.

Sproul and his legacy. Back in fall of 2014, we made a

New England tour. We happened to visit the Old South Church in Newburyport, Massachusetts.

This is the church where Whitfield preached his final sermon.

He'd gone through there before and preached. And the pastor of the other church in town was converted by Whitfield's preaching.

He realized he wasn't a Christian. And so he tells his congregation, I'm a

Christian now, and they kick him out. And he grabs a bunch of other folks who were converted under Whitfield, and they started a brand new church there in town.

They called it Old South Church. Well, a few years later, Whitfield comes back and preaches there on a

Saturday. And they follow him. He's staying in the preacher's house. They follow him to the preacher's house to try to, like, squeeze one more sermon out of this guy.

And Whitfield offers one. Then from the steps of the pastor's house, they're out in the lawn and so forth.

Then he dies overnight and is buried there in the church. Well, we visited that church.

We weren't supposed to, Chris, do anything there, have a teaching time there. We were just going to visit it. Whitfield's grave is there.

He's buried actually under the pulpit. And we're going to see it and leave, you know, hop back on the bus, go to the next thing.

R .C. got up to speak. And none of this was scripted or planned. He tells a joke.

He says, before Whitfield died, he said, a couple centuries from now, some preacher will come from central

Florida and try to preach to you people over my dead body. And, of course, you know,

Whitfield's buried there. Anyway, it's R .C.'s joke. Then he turns on a dime and quotes the exchange with Christ and Peter.

And where Peter says, Christ says, who am I? And he says, you know, Son of the living

God. And Christ says, confession blood did not reveal this to you, Peter, but my Father who is in heaven.

And he launched into a sermon on awakening. And we're all sitting there just amazed at what we're hearing and the power of it.

I remember I looked over at Chris Larson, Ligonier's president, and he looked at me and we both gave us this look like, I can't believe we're not recording this.

But I'm jotting notes as furiously as I can. And he just talked about Edwards and Luther and Calvin.

And he said, what it was about these men was that they had an encounter with the living

God. They had an encounter with the holy God of the

Bible. And when they preached, they preached with a passion so that everyone who heard them would have an encounter with the holy

God. And he just started talking about awakening. And from then on, he would talk about awakening.

We made it the theme of our 2018 national conference. R .C. died before it, but he picked the theme.

The Unawakening. And it's just interesting to me that in his twilight years, with him it was not just the years, it was the miles.

It was difficult for him to preach. He had COPD. He had a number of strokes. But he just was impassioned for the gospel and impassioned for the church to have an awakening.

To have a true sense of who God is and to have that dominate who we are as a church and who we are as a people of God.

I went up to Atlanta to interview Archie Parrish. He was a longtime friend of R .C.'s.

And a few months after I visited with him, Archie passed away too. And we had a wonderful time interviewing.

Then Archie asked if he could pray for the book. And I recorded it. And I actually have it in the book as the sort of final word.

And Archie, his prayer is that as God used

R .C.'s life for awakening of people to the deep things of God, the truth of God, that this book would serve in that same way to just bring an awakening.

So as I think about all these wonderful thoughts we have of R .C., we still have his teaching.

We're going to have it for decades to come. I really just pray for a true awakening of both in our church and in our culture to just come to know the

God of the Bible and who he is and how we come to know him through Jesus Christ and what

Christ has done for us. So that's my prayer for the book.

And as we reflect on R .C.'s legacy, that we would pick up that passion to see an awakening and to just see people come to know who

God is. Amen. I'm so glad that I was able to see

R .C. speak. It was the last time I saw him speak about a year before he went home to glory.

He was at an event that was not only speaking involved with various speakers, including

Dr. Sproul, but a concert featuring the award -winning composer

Jeff Lippincott in Lancaster, Pennsylvania. And it was interesting to see how

Dr. Sproul, even though he was in a wheelchair and had oxygen hooked up to him, when it came time for him to speak,

I was amazed at the boldness and clarity and the strength with which he was able to proclaim the

Word of God. That was quite a blessing to be in the pews right near him that day.

Yeah, that was a special moment. He's sort of the old athlete in him.

Right, Chris? You just saw it, and it was game day, and he put on the game face, and he did it.

But yeah, that was a special moment, that conference and that concert. Well, I want to thank you so much for carving out two hours of your day and your busy schedule to be with us today.

I want to make sure our listeners have the website for Reformation Bible College again. It's ReformationBibleCollege .org,

ReformationBibleCollege .org. I also want to make sure that they have the website for Ligonier Ministries.

It's Ligonier .org, L -I -G -O -N -I -E -R .org. And don't forget about our friends at Crossway Books.

Thank them for donating these books that we gave away today. And if you'd like to purchase the book,

R .C. Sproul, A Life, you can get that at our sponsor's website, Cvbbs .com,

Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, Cvbbs .com. Thank you so much, Dr. Nichols. I want to thank everybody who listened.

And I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than you are a sinner.