December 30, 2020 Show with Dr. Tony Costa on “The State of the Church in Canada”

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,

Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours and we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions and now here's your host

Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon

Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet

Earth who are listening via live streaming at IronSharpensIronRadio .com. This is

Chris Arnzen your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio wishing you all a happy Wednesday on this 30th day of December 2020 and if I sound a bit somber in my voice that is because I just left a funeral at Grace Baptist Church of Carlisle, Pennsylvania where I am a member and we were gathered there at the funeral of a member of Grace Baptist Church of Carlisle who went home to be with the

Lord at only 41 years of age. I would appreciate you all praying for the family of David Auger and thankfully and praise be to God he was a man of impeccable faith in the

Lord Jesus Christ, a faith that he zealously shared and declared whenever given the opportunity and it was very moving to hear the last sermon he preached at a local nursing home here in Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

Thankfully he had the notes within access after he went home to be with the

Lord which my pastor used as a part of his sermon today at the funeral.

So please pray for the David Auger family. It must be such a an enormous loss and shock for them since David was a very healthy athletic young man and seemingly at the prime of his health strength and vitality but it is believed he had an abnormality in his heart which caused the heart attack which took him to be with Christ instantly apparently and so please pray for this family and especially pray for those who do not yet know you in that family that this death might be used for the purpose that David certainly would want it to be used to bring those lost family members and loved ones into an eternally saving relationship with Jesus Christ so that he,

David, can one day meet with them again in glory in the arms of their

Savior. So I thank you all for praying for the

Auger family and I'm very delighted to have a returning guest today, a brother whom

I have loved to interview and also have loved to orchestrate speaking engagements and debates for him and his name is

Dr. Tony Costa who is professor of apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary and we are going to be addressing the theme the state of the church in Canada and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to On Interpreting Zion Radio, Dr.

Tony Costa. Well it's a great pleasure to be on with you Chris and again my condolences on the passing of this dear brother and a member of your church and to be with Christ is far better and so my condolences.

Yes it is an infinitely better thing to be snatched from this earth at a very young age while you know

Christ and love and serve Christ than to live to a hundred years old and die as his enemy.

I can't even comprehend what that day will be like for those who die in their sins still in rebellion against Christ but thankfully that was far from the case with David Auger and it was certainly a blessing to hear those who knew him well give their testimonies of him.

But before we go on to our theme today, Tony why don't you tell our listeners about Toronto Baptist Seminary.

Yes, Toronto Baptist Seminary is a reformed Baptist seminary in the heart of Toronto and it started in the late 20s early 30s by Dr.

T .T. Shields who was the pastor of Jarvis Street Baptist Church also in Toronto and we are a seminary that our motto is

Cata Christon which in Greek means according to Christ. We are a seminary dedicated to the doctrines of grace and our mission is to educate men and women in theology and to educate them in some of them go into mission and mission work around the world.

We also train men for the pastorate to become godly pastors and shepherds of the local churches and we also train and educate many of our students who move on to further their studies in doctoral programs around the world to become professors in leading seminaries and colleges universities and to advance the cause of Christ.

And so the seminary does not receive any special funding from the government.

We are fully funded by the congregants of various churches and various people.

The reason for that is because we do not want to be placed under a microscope by the government where they impose certain restrictions on what we can say what we could do and so forth.

So we are thankful to God for this seminary. It is one of the very few seminaries

I would say in Canada that has an uncompromising stand for the gospel.

And if anybody wants to find out more about Toronto Baptist Seminary go to tbs .edu

tbs standing for Toronto Baptist Seminary dot edu.

Well our theme as I said earlier is the state of the church in Canada and I'm sure that this will be an eye -opener for many of your cousins south of the border here in North America.

Some here in America seem to think that the way things are going in our country, the rapid decline that we are spiraling into as seen in the recent election of Joe Biden, whether genuine or fraudulent, either way you could look at this, it's a horrible sign of where the hearts of Americans are, either those that voted for him who gleefully supports the murder of unborn children and the sexual mutilation of children through hormone injections and surgery and so on, or if it is an election by fraud, either way it's a sign, it's a deep and dark sign of the spiritual health of this nation.

But I don't think that the picture is any brighter from what I understand from the conversations

I've had with you, I don't think that the picture is any brighter north of the border.

But tell us exactly why you wanted to speak on this issue today. Yes, we are facing similar restrictions here in Canada in terms of our political leaders are ungodly, our prime minister is a champion of abortion, in fact he funds various countries outside of Canada, he sends money to them to promote what he calls women's health, which in is simply money sent towards killing children in the womb.

We have a government here that has a very dim view of Christianity, we can see this particularly right now in the various lockdowns that we have here in Canada.

In the province where I live, Chris, in Ontario, churches have been deemed non -essential, and because of that the government has basically said that you can only have the capacity of only 10 people in a church, which in some churches is basically the pastoral staff and the deacons.

And so what they've done is they've basically locked down our churches here in Canada, the worst places are in Ontario, the province of Ontario and the province of Manitoba, Manitoba is worse than Ontario right now in terms of lockdowns.

I'll get into that a little bit more in the program, but all that to say, Chris, that we have a government here in Canada that says that Costco, alcoholic liquor stores, corn stores, massage therapy clinics, and so forth, traveling by air, all of these things are considered essential, but the churches are not.

We have seen here in Canada, I'm suspecting that the same stats are probably reflected in the

United States, but we have seen a huge leap in suicides, we have seen a huge leap in mental health issues among churchgoers because many of them cannot meet in person, and so the measures by which the government here in Canada is moving, we have had pastors that have been charged simply for having a church service against our federal laws, and I will refer to those in our program as well, and we've also had cases of the police literally barring congregants from entering the church parking lot to have a church service in the parking lot, listening to the pastor preach on the

AM dial on the radio, and so we are now having police barring

Christians from entering their houses of worship, even if it's in a parking lot, because of the so -called pandemic that we are facing, so things are looking really ugly up here,

Chris, things are really getting out of line, and as I said, we are experiencing pastors being given fines up to a hundred thousand dollars and one -year imprisonment for violating what's called here in Ontario, we have what's called the

Reopening Act, which basically, if you violate this act, you can face the severe penalties, so the church in Canada, in terms of assembling together, is not doing very well at all, and we are going to see terrible consequences of this in the days ahead.

Let me give our email address out for our listeners right away, in the event that they'd like to ask a question or even give a comment regarding their own personal experience being a

Christian in Canada, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com,

c -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com, please give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the

USA, and please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

That's chrisarnsen at gmail .com. Well, tell us about, even beyond these legal restrictions and mandates and so forth, to start with, tell us more about the spiritual health, the theological soundness of the church in Canada.

Give us something of a weather report, on the climate of Christendom there.

Yeah, I think the climate is pretty similar to what you see in the

BARDA polls that are conducted in the United States. They're pretty much the same. Majority of Christians here in Canada are very, let's say, passive Christians.

Some of them, particularly the young adults and teenagers, have been taught that Christianity is simply a do -good religion.

It's treating everybody with respect, not offending anyone, and so forth. So a lot of the young people that I find in a number of these churches,

Chris, a lot of them have a very abysmal understanding of theology, very abysmal understanding of evangelism, and so it's a very, the attitude up here is a very, to use the

French term, it's a laissez -faire, meaning, you know, just leave things alone, don't rock the boat, let's just get along with everybody, let's not say anything offensive.

But the churches that remain faithful are the ones that are looked down upon, churches that maintain

God's supremacy over all things and the centrality of Christ in all things.

These churches are seen as fundamentalists, they're derided as bigoted, and so forth.

So the spiritual climate here, Chris, is very much the same that you would find in the

United States. But our population, obviously, is not as large as yours, but the spiritual atmosphere is certainly the same.

And as far as the doctrines of Sovereign Grace, how prevalent are they?

Otherwise known as Reformed Theology and nicknamed Calvinism and so on? Right, right.

Yeah, the doctrines of grace, I think, are not as prevalent here in Canada.

Most churches that I'm aware of here in Canada, even those that would claim a name to be

Reformed, have a very Arminian outlook and champion the idea of man's libertarian free will towards God.

So the most dedicated Christians that I have come in contact with, the most dedicated, the strongest

Christians do tend to be Reformed types. But unfortunately, even those raised in Reformed churches, whether it be

Presbyterian or even Reformed Baptist, or even Anglican Church of England, those who have been raised in a more conservative

Reformed Church of England body, don't understand the doctrines of grace.

They don't understand the concept of God's election and the idea of predestination and so forth.

So I would say that the Reformed -minded folks here in Canada are a minority in comparison to those that are

Arminian. Now, since we are talking about the state of the

Church in Canada, and also how the Canadian government may be imposing certain restrictions and so on upon the

Church, going back to this pastor that you mentioned, this friend of yours whom we may just interview here on Iron Troupe and Zion Radio, if everything works out, how is he responding to this threat of this grotesque fine of a hundred thousand dollars and this frightening sentence looming over him of a possibility of a year in prison?

How is he responding to this, and how should Christians be responding to these mandates and regulations that are being imposed on us?

There is, as you know, differences of opinion in the body of Christ, even among those that share the same theology.

There are confessionally Reformed Baptists who disagree over this, sharply disagree, and there are even

Church splits that I'm aware of. Actually, I don't know of any Reformed Baptist Church splits that have taken place over this, although there may be, but I know of people who have left conservative

Presbyterian churches over their disagreements over mask mandates and things like that.

It's a very sad thing in the body of Christ when you see people becoming very embittered towards each other over how they respond to these government impositions and so forth.

So, tell us about your friend, first and foremost, and feel free to give as much information as you think he would be willing to share publicly, and also what you have in common with him, or even in disagreement with him, as far as an appropriate

Christian response to all this. Yes, well, his name is Pastor Aaron Rock.

He pastors the Harvest Bible Chapel in Windsor, Ontario, Canada, and Windsor is right across the

Detroit Bridge. Of course, he would be one of the few pastors where it would absolutely be inappropriate to have a church named

Church of the Rock. That's right, and in fact,

Matthew 16 is actually referring to him upon this rock. So, yeah, he's the real pope.

Aaron Rock is the real pope of the church. Okay, I'll put that aside. Windsor, Ontario, as I said, is right across the city of Detroit.

You can see each other, the cities, the skylines from either part, and he's a dear brother in Christ, a dear friend.

He and I ministered together in 2005 in China, in mainland China, and we were doing some teaching there, and he has always been a committed brother, loves the

Lord, loves the Lord's people and his sheep, and he has been abiding by the provincial legislation here in Ontario.

He has been abiding by the legislation with social distancing and masks and so forth.

He's not an anti -masker. He's not an anti -vaxxer. He's admittedly been open about that in media interviews, and what he felt was that the government kept basically saying, okay, we're going to flatten the curve.

They've been saying this for the past 10 months. It's going to be two weeks. We're going to flatten the curve, and now we're in the 10th month, and the curve hasn't been flattened yet.

So, what he was finding was that people in his church, and he pastors a church of 1 ,300 people.

The church building, Chris, this is no joke, the church building is almost the size of Costco, and he felt and he was saying that a lot of people were suffering from not being in contact with their brothers and sisters in Christ.

Some people were having serious suicide ideations. Some of them were having mental health problems because they were told to quarantine and so forth, and what he did was, again, he was abiding by the laws and the bylaws and so forth and so on, but then people started reporting him to the police.

The local neighbors began to do some snitching, and the police would come by, and they would start surveilling the area.

They would start video recording people coming into the parking, their cars in the parking lot, going to the church and so forth, and then on December 20th, he had a visit from a sergeant, a police sergeant, who came to his church office and basically told him that he was being charged and informed him that the penalty ranges from $10 ,000 to $100 ,000 or one year imprisonment.

So, when he asked what was the reason for the charge, they said he violated the health order, the municipal health order, not to have more than 10 people and so forth and so on.

They didn't care that he was observing the social distancing rules and so forth, and so he's now in a situation where he had to defend himself, and so what

I did, Chris, was I took immediate action, and I started a GoFundMe to raise some funds to help

Pastor Rock with his legal defense because what he's going to do, and other pastors are doing this as well in Canada, is they're going to take this to court and they're going to fight this on what's called a charter challenge.

Now, here in Canada, our federal constitution is called the

Charter of Rights and Freedoms. That is our constitution, and in that constitution, it guarantees under fundamental freedoms that everyone has, and I'm quoting now,

Chris, everyone has the following fundamental freedoms, freedom of conscience and religion, freedom of thought, belief, opinion, and expression, including freedom of the press and other media communication, freedom of peaceful assembly, and freedom of association.

That is guaranteed in our constitution, and another thing I just need to quickly mention,

Chris, is that in our criminal code, which is a federal document that covers criminal law in Canada, Criminal Code of Canada, section 176, forbid the police from arresting a clergyman who is officiating a religious service or disrupting a religious assembly.

To disrupt a religious assembly is a federal crime in Canada, any religious assembly.

So where are we going with this? He's taking this whole issue to court. We've provided him with some funding to get him prepared, and he wants to take this as far as we can.

Hopefully, if it reaches the Supreme Court of Canada, we're hoping the Supreme Court will strike down this law that is insensitive, that is really discriminatory,

Chris, because we can discuss this later, but the fact that Costco can have tons of people in there that are not social distancing, aircrafts are packed with people flying in and out of Canada, and a church cannot even meet with social distancing,

I think this is hypocrisy to the nth degree. Not to mention that a number of our politicians who were railing against churches remaining open have just been caught, at least three of them have been caught traveling down to the

Caribbean against the law in Canada, the so -called laws pertaining to coronavirus and so forth.

They violated the law by going and enjoying their holidays, Christmas holidays with their family. They're being called out right now, and I understand that has happened in your country as well.

So this is where we're at. We're making this a challenge in the courts, we're asking the courts, based on the

Charter of Rights and Freedoms and the Criminal Code of Canada, section 176, we're asking the courts to strike down these discriminatory and cruel laws that are affecting and destroying people's lives.

We have to go to our first break right now, and if you would like to join us on the air with a question for Dr.

Tony Costa of your own, again our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com, chrisarnsen at gmail .com,

c -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com. Please give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the

USA, only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. Let's say you are a pastor in Canada, and you really don't feel comfortable drawing attention to your own identity depending upon what it is you're going to ask or say.

Well, we can understand something like that being the case, and a good reason to remain anonymous, but if you're just asking a general question, please give us at least your first name, city and state, and country of residence.

Don't go away, we'll be right back with Dr. Tony Costa and more of our discussion on the state of the church in Canada right after these messages.

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Thank you. Welcome back. This is Chris Arnzen. If you just tuned us in, our guest today for the entire two hours with a little less than 90 minutes to go is

Dr. Tony Costa, Professor of Apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary. We are addressing the state of the church in Canada.

If you have any questions for Dr. Costa, send them to chrisarnzen at gmail .com.

C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com. Give his first name at least. City and state of residence in your country of residence if you live outside the

USA. We have Grady in Asheboro, North Carolina, a very faithful listener and financial supporter of this program.

He says, Hi brothers, my wife and I have been home over a week with COVID -19. It's really been rough, but our

Heavenly Father has certainly been near. Our governments are so secular and satanic that they have no fear of our

Lord Jesus Christ and so greedy that all that matters is that we bow down to the government.

If the government guidelines worked, I can guarantee that my wife would not have come down with COVID -19.

It seems to me that these so -called guidelines are to forbid the worship of the

King of Kings and Lord of Lords. Is this what you're assessing the situation to be in Canada?

Why else would they forbid worship of the one true God but allow what seems to be very sinful businesses opening?

Yes, I would agree with that brother's assessment, Chris. I think that we do need to take the scripture seriously when it does talk about that the world lies in the power of evil one and the

Lord Jesus himself referred to Satan as the prince or the ruler of this world. Paul calls him the God of this age.

So we should not be ignorant of Satan's devices. Satan can move through governments and political establishments.

In fact, historically, that's how the church experienced her persecutions, primarily through governments who opposed the

Lordship of Jesus Christ. I'm not saying there's a demon behind every stairwell, but what

I am saying is that when you look at what our governments are saying and doing in the name of health, and unfortunately politics and medicine, as far as I'm concerned,

Chris, don't make good bedfellows. There are doctors, tens of thousands of them, 40 ,000 doctors have signed onto the

Barrington Declaration protesting against government measures that are making people's lives intolerable.

People are losing their businesses. Small business owners cannot provide for their families.

They can't pay their mortgages. We have, we know people personally whose friends have committed suicide because of business losses, and I think that the measures that the governments have put in place, we know they're not taking it seriously.

We see them violating the very laws that they put on the populace. For example, the state of New Jersey, which has been mandating wearing masks and so forth, they've had some of the highest cases of COVID in the nation.

So you have to ask yourself the question, if they are following the guidelines, masking up all the time, why do they have the highest

COVID results in the United States? So I'm not saying, Chris, I'm not an anti -masker.

If you feel comfortable wearing a mask and you want to make sure that your health is protected, by all means.

But what I'm against is when the government will tell me that the porn shop on the corner there is more essential than the church building on the corner that ministers to the spiritually sick, that ministers to the and so forth, and feeds the hungry and provides kitchens, soup kitchens, and so forth.

When you tell me that a liquor store or a porn hub, porn shop is more essential than the church of Jesus Christ, then what you're telling me is you don't believe this.

We're being played here. And so the gross inconsistency that I see going on, when

I go to Costco with my wife, and we're told to wear masks, and yet there are crowds of people in that store, no social distancing.

And that's okay with the government, because they, these big corporations, big box stores are paying into the coffers of the government.

But when I go to my local church, I'm told that you need to put on a mask, only 10 people, no more than 10.

We're going to put a thermometer down to your head to see your temperature and so forth. Chris, I cannot explain this any other way than to say that there is a nefarious, there is a demonic move behind all of this.

And I think it is one of Satan's attempts to destroy the church of Jesus Christ. Although we know from scripture that he will not succeed in that endeavor.

Thank you, Grady. We have CJ from Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York, who wants to know, is the

Canadian government being even -handed with these restrictions with other religions such as Islam?

Yes, the restrictions are across the board. So they're not just saying churches cannot meet with more than 10 people.

They're saying the same thing with any house of worship, whether it's a synagogue, whether it's a mosque. But our fight is not just for the local church.

Here in Canada, we have made it very clear to our politicians that our fight is for the

Charter of Rights and Freedoms in Canada that guarantees the freedom to assemble, the freedom to worship for any religious group.

So it's not just a battle for the church. We are recognizing that this is a fundamental right that all human beings have.

And so we're not opposed to, of course, if we're going to open, of course, to be consistent, we need to also say, look, you know, synagogues should be open, mosques and temples should be open, because these are fundamental rights.

And so our fight is not just for the church. Our fight is for religious liberty. Thank you,

CJ. We have Bobby in Hartsdale, New York. And Bobby says, there are brothers and sisters in Christ who say that we are whining and complaining like babies, when we never have even come close to tasting the kind of persecution that our brothers and sisters in Christ have had to experience in other parts of the world for many centuries.

How do you respond to that kind of criticism, and that we should also be obeying the civil authorities above us when it comes to these restrictions that may be inconvenient, but are really nothing more than inconvenience in comparison?

Yes, I've heard that as well, Chris. And in fact, most of the attacks that I've received from brothers in Christ as well,

I've had some very nasty messages that my colleague,

Pastor Windsor, is being very selfish, and that he should be ashamed of himself. And so most of the stripes on my back have come from brethren in Christ, more so than the unbelievers.

And the problem with this, Chris, is that when the government says, look, we need to shut down for two weeks because we need to flatten the curve, then it becomes four weeks.

Then it becomes eight weeks. And let's say the government says, you know what, I think the church should be closed for 2021.

No church gatherings for the entire year of 2021. When is enough enough?

Now, we are not saying that we should disobey the governmental authorities, because we're clearly taught in Scripture, Romans 13 and 1

Peter, we're told that we should obey the authorities for God has established all authority.

However, there is a caveat here. There is a qualification here, because when the government oversteps its

God -given duties to maintain order, to provide security to the people, and to punish those who do evil, which is what the government is supposed to do under God's establishment, there comes a point where the government crosses that line, where it no longer is enforcing its position to enact just laws and to punish the wicked and those who violate the laws of the land.

When it starts crossing over and then telling you that you cannot express or exercise your

God -given rights, guaranteed under the Constitution, whether it's Canada or the

United States or the United Kingdom, whatever it may be, then we've now gone from the point of civil, the necessity of civil disobedience to divine obedience.

So we have cases like this in Scripture. For example, the apostles are told by the

Sanhedrin in Acts 5, we command you not to preach in the name of this man

Jesus. What do they do? They continue to preach in the name of Jesus. They're thrown into prison, and that does not stop them.

Daniel 3 and 6, we see the Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego told that they ought to worship the statue of the king for a space of 30 days.

They refuse. They're thrown into the fiery furnace. Daniel refuses to worship the gods of Babylon, and that he's forbidden from worshipping

Yahweh. And we're told he's thrown into the lion's den. Now, we're not at that point yet. I'm not saying we're at that point where the government is sending in the

ATF or the SWAT team on us, but what I'm saying is that there are places in Scripture where there is civil disobedience practiced by the people of God to uphold the law of God.

I think of the midwives in Egypt, when the pharaoh said, kill all Hebrew children two years and under, and the midwives deliberately went against the pharaoh's edict to deliver the

Hebrew children, among whom Moses was born, to uphold the law of God, that you do not kill the children, you don't have them aborted, and so forth.

So, we are now at a point where the church is now in a position, do we obey the civil authorities, or do we disobey them, because now the civil authorities are forbidding us to exercise our free right to worship and to gather and to assemble, guaranteed to us from our federal constitution.

So, if you notice, Chris, the United States, in its constitution and in its establishment, the whole concept of the constitution was to understand that all men are created equal and given certain inalienable rights, like freedom and liberty and health and so forth, happiness, but there's also measures built into the

U .S. constitution to ward off the possibility that if the government ever becomes tyrannical, then the people have a right to disobey and rebel.

I mean, that was the whole creation of the United States, was to declare a revolution, a declaration of independence against Great Britain, because they deemed the king,

King George III, they deemed that he'd become a tyrant, that you cannot have taxation without representation, and that's why the 13 colonies eventually broke off from Britain.

So, I'm not saying we're at that severe point, but what I'm saying is the government is pushing the envelope as far as it can, and what's happening is, in the meantime, those that I find that are basically saying, you know, you guys should just, you know, suck it up and sit down and just obey the government, most of these folks,

Chris, I know, are at home getting paid, with benefits, working from home, they're not the poor fellow who's trying to run a restaurant business, trying to feed his family, trying to pay his employees, and so what

I find is a lot of folks have created, are in this ivory tower bubble where it's very nice to stay at home and get paid, but what about the little guy?

And then I hear people say, if you love your neighbor, then you should wear a mask, and just two things

I want to say about that, number one, that is tampering with God's word, number two, you're adding to God's word, much like the

Pharisees did when Jesus said, you have heard it was said, you shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy, God never said that, that was added by the

Pharisaical authorities, and so what we're finding is people saying, oh, if you love your neighbor, then wear a mask, that's not what the divine command says, the divine command says, love your neighbor as yourself, in other words, look to your neighbor, look to the other before you think of yourself, consider the needs of others before you think of yourself, that's not what we're doing,

Chris, that's not what the church is doing in most cases, she's ignoring the widow, she's ignoring the orphan, and so this is something where I feel the church has miserably failed.

And we have to get our midway break right now, and please be patient with us, because the midway break is the longer break in the middle of our show, required of us by Grace Life Radio, 90 .1

FM in Lake City, Florida, because the FCC requires of them to localize Iron Sharpens Iron Radio to Lake City, Florida, through their own public service announcements and other local announcements that they air, while we air our globally heard commercials.

So please use this time wisely, write down as much of the information as you possibly can for as many of our advertisers as you can, so that you can more frequently and successfully patronize them, which will in turn mean more than likely they will remain our advertisers, which will subsequently mean,

God willing, that we will remain on the air for a longer future, because we absolutely depend upon the finances that come through our advertisers in order to exist.

So please write down that information provided by our advertisers, so that you can patronize them, and also send in questions to Dr.

Tony Costa on the state of the church in Canada, at chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Don't go away, we'll be right back after these messages from our sponsors. Iron Sharpens Iron Radio depends upon the financial support of fine

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James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries and the Dividing Line webcast here. Although God has brought me all over the globe for many years to teach, preach, and debate at numerous venues, some of my very fondest memories are from those precious times of fellowship with Pastor Rich Jensen and the brethren at Hope Reform Baptist Church, now located at their new, beautiful facilities in Corham, Long Island, New York.

I've had the privilege of opening God's Word from their pulpit on many occasions, have led youth retreats for them, and have always been thrilled to see their members filling many seats at my

New York debates. I cannot hesitate to highly recommend Hope Reform Baptist Church of Corham, Long Island to anyone who wants to be accurately taught, discipled, and edified by the

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that's hopereformedli .net, or call 631 -696 -5711, that's 631 -696 -5711.

Tell the folks at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Corham, Long Island that you heard about them from James White on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the

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Linbrook Baptist Church on 225 Earl Avenue in Linbrook, Long Island, is teaching God's timeless truths in the 21st century.

Our church is far more than a Sunday worship service. It's a place of learning where the scriptures are studied and the preaching of the gospel is clear and relevant.

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That's linbrookbaptist .org. Here's what

Gary DeMar, president of American Vision, had to say about Iron Sharpens Iron Radio recently.

Good to be back, Chris. I always enjoy our time here. I have to tell you one of the better interviewers out there and I've been doing this for 30, more than 30 years.

Wow, that's some compliment. How much joy are you for that? You don't have to tell me anything.

We're in good shape. I'm glad you said it on the air so I don't have to brag about myself.

Tell your friends and loved ones about Iron Sharpens Iron Radio airing live Monday through Friday 4 to 6 p .m.

Eastern time at ironsharpensironradio .com. Hi, this is

John Sampson, pastor of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona. Taking a moment of your day to talk about Chris Arnson and the

Iron Sharpens Iron podcast. I consider Chris a true friend and a man of high integrity. He's a skilled interviewer who's not afraid to ask the big penetrating questions while always defending the key doctrines of the

Christian faith. I've always been happy to point people to this podcast knowing it's one of the very few safe places on the internet where folk won't be led astray.

I believe this podcast needs to be heard far and wide. This is a day of great spiritual compromise and yet God has raised

Chris up for just such a time and knowing this, it's up to us as members of the body of Christ to stand with such a ministry in prayer and in finances.

I'm pleased to do so and would like to ask you to prayerfully consider joining me in supporting

Iron Sharpens Iron financially. Would you consider sending either a one -time gift or even becoming a regular monthly partner with this ministry?

I know it would be a huge encouragement to Chris if you would. All the details can be found at ironsharpensironradio .com

where you can click support. That's ironsharpensironradio .com. As host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, I frequently get requests from listeners for church recommendations.

A church I've been strongly recommending as far back as the 1980s is Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey pastored by Alan Dunn.

Grace Covenant Baptist Church believes it's God's prerogative to determine how he shall be worshiped and how he shall be represented in the world.

They believe churches need to turn to the Bible to discover what to include in worship and how to worship

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or call them at 908 -996 -7654. That's 908 -996 -7654.

Tell Pastor Dunn that you heard about Grace Covenant Baptist Church on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. Hi, I'm Buzz Taylor, frequent co -host with Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

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Iron Sharpens Iron Radio is sponsored by Harvey Cedars, a year -round Bible conference and retreat center nestled on the

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For generations, Christians have enjoyed gathering and growing at Harvey Cedars. Each year, thousands of high school and college students come and learn more about God's Word.

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This is Pastor Bill Sousa, Grace Church at Franklin, here in the beautiful state of Tennessee.

Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support Iron Sharpens Iron Radio financially.

Grace Church at Franklin is an independent, autonomous body of believers which strives to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in Scripture through the person and work of our

Lord Jesus Christ. And, of course, the end of which we strive is the glory of God.

If you live near Franklin, Tennessee, and Franklin is just south of Nashville, maybe 10 minutes, or you are visiting this area, or you have friends and loved ones nearby, we hope you will join us some

Lord's Day in worshiping our God and Savior. Please feel free to contact me if you have more questions about Grace Church at Franklin.

Our website is gracechurchatfranklin .org. That's gracechurchatfranklin .org.

This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our

Sovereign Lord, God, Savior, and King Jesus Christ today and always.

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In Psalm 139 verse 14, the psalmist offers praise to the Lord like this,

I praise you because I'm fearfully and wonderfully made and wondrous are your works that my soul knows very well.

He saw God's goodness and mercy, kindness, and the beauty in what

God has designed and he has erupted into praise. In any crisis or problem, brothers and sisters, our only fallback position is to trust

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When the whole world is searching for a solution, God in his infinite mercy has given us what we need to address this which can be very serious.

Such is the beauty of his design. Knowing that design, how can we not erupt in praise to our great

God like the psalmist did? May God bless you and give all of us wisdom to see greater things in his design.

Thank you. Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said, give yourself unto reading.

The man who never reads will never be read. He who never quotes will never be quoted.

He will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves he has no brains of his own.

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Solid Ground Christian Books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of Iron Radio. And please remember folks that solid -ground -books .com

is a vital, a necessary, a premier sponsor of this program.

We would likely not continue to exist without the continued financial support of solid -ground -books .com

that comes through their advertising campaigns. So please visit solid -ground -books .com

frequently and purchase as generously as possible and always mention that you heard about them from Chris Arns and the

Noninterference Iron Radio. One thing that you might not be aware of is that solid -ground -books .com,

in addition to publishing many things from the past that you must have in your libraries, they also have brought into print things by contemporary writers like our mutual friend

Dr. Tony Costa and my mutual friend Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries who has written such books as Pulpit Crimes, The Criminal Mishandling of God's Word and Is the

Mormon My Brother? and other publications that Solid Ground Christian Books has published.

And I know that Dr. Costa, you can certainly give a hearty endorsement of our mutual friend

Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries. Yes, I think

Dr. White has been a great influence on my life as I'm sure on yours as well,

Chris. He's fighting the good fight. He's boldly going, as we hear in Star Trek, to boldly go where no man has gone before.

I would heartily recommend

Dr. James White. He's a dear brother in the Lord. He's been very gracious and kind in promoting my ministry here in Canada.

He's one of the few good men that take a stand in this world of confusion and darkness.

Amen. So remember that website, solid -ground -books .com, solid -ground -books .com,

and purchase frequently and generously from them, always mentioning that you heard about them from Chris Orenson on Iron Trumpet's Iron Radio.

Before we return to our discussion with Dr. Tony Costa on the state of the Church in Canada, we just have a couple of important announcements to make.

Tomorrow, New Year's Eve, we are joined once again by Bishop Peter Robinson, who is the presiding bishop of the

United Episcopal Church in North America, which is a very conservative, biblically faithful, confessional,

Reformed denomination, not to be confused with the mainline denomination, the

Episcopal Church. And we are going to be joined by Bishop Robinson to discuss lessons to be learned from 18th century

Anglicanism. And I'm sure you will find Bishop Robinson to be utterly fascinating and edifying.

He's quite a brilliant brother in Christ, not only very theologically and doctrinally astute, but also when it comes to church history.

And I look forward to my next interview with him. Also, folks, if you love this show and you don't want it to disappear from the airwaves, please go to IronTrumpetsIronRadio .com,

click support, then click, click to donate now. You could donate instantly in that fashion with a debit or credit card.

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You could also advertise with us, as long as whatever it is you desire to promote is compatible with what we believe.

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In other words, don't punish your own church financially by blessing us financially. And also, if you are really struggling to survive and make ends meet, please don't put your family in further financial jeopardy and peril by supporting

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Also, folks, if you are not a member of a local bible believing church, no matter where on the planet earth you live, please send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com

and put I need a church in the subject line. I have lists of biblically faithful churches all over the world, and I have helped many people in all parts of the globe find churches, sometimes right near where they live, that they didn't even know existed or that they didn't know were biblically faithful churches.

So, I may be able to help you too. Just send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com and put

I need a church in the subject line. That's also the email address where you can send in a question to Dr.

Tony Costa on the state of the church in Canada. It's chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com.

And we have a question from Ronald in Eastern Suffolk County, Long Island, New York for you,

Dr. Costa. He says you have repeatedly said that your pastor friend who risks a $100 ,000 fine and a year imprisonment is not an anti -masker or anti -vacciner, but I also happen to know that you have friends that are also your theological allies that would fit that category.

What room do folks such as that who are anti -maskers and anti -vacciners have in the body of Christ?

Was the question what place do they have? Yeah, in other words, are they wrong for holding these anti -mask, anti -vaccine views?

And well, let's be honest. I don't think Dr. James White is going to mind if we mention him by name.

I wouldn't necessarily say he is totally an anti -vaccine, but he has definitely made it clear in public that the current vaccine for the coronavirus has not had the adequate tests and has not had an adequate span of time elapsed before he would feel even close to safe taking the vaccine.

But if you could pick up where I left off there. Sure, sure.

Well, let me just quickly add, Chris, I just have to give a plug -in for you here that you are excellent at finding solid reformed churches for people because even though I live in Canada, I actually asked you about a church to find in Canada, and you found it to my own chagrin that a

Canadian couldn't even find a Canadian church. So just to admit, to my own chagrin, you actually located a church in Canada when

I should have known better. So a prophet is never accepted among his own people. So I would take the position,

I think that anti -maskers do have a point. I personally am not a fan or a champion of wearing masks.

I'm not against those who wish to wear a mask. I'm not going to rail against you if you wish to wear a mask.

I personally am not convinced. I've been following medical professionals who are looking at this differently, particularly those doctors who signed on to the

Barrington Declaration, over 40 ,000 of them, and they're telling us that these masks are absolutely useless.

We had one doctor here in Alberta who came out and said something to the same effect, and he's basically been threatened.

He's received death threats, believe it or not, just for speaking his own mind as a medical professional.

And we're talking about someone who specializes in epidemiology, virology, and credentials that would make any average medical professional blush.

So my position is, I think that there's a place for that. I don't think masks are helpful.

I personally don't think they're going to help you against coronavirus. But at the same time,

I don't take the position that, well, if you're not wearing a mask, then you're being unloving and you're being inconsiderate.

There was a church in Steinbeck, Manitoba, Chris, a church of God in Steinbeck, Manitoba, who were, the pastor was also charged by the police in Canada.

And there was a, because the Christians parked in the parking lot, you can imagine here in Canada, Chris, the winters up here can be very brutal, particularly in Manitoba.

So they were in the parking lot, listening to the pastor, and because some of them got out of their vehicles, the police ran in and basically started finding the church.

Now, a stone's throw away from this church, Chris, there was a pro -mask protest.

There were people protesting against the church, and they were pro -mask. They were all out in the public protesting.

The police leaked no charges. No difference between them standing outside and people getting out of their cars to talk to one another.

So what I'm saying here is that we as Christians need to be careful not to become polarized over this.

And I know you mentioned earlier, Chris, that some Christians have broken with other Christians over this. That is very sad.

We should not be breaking fellowship with other believers on this. This is not the thing that should divide us.

And so if scripture calls us to think of the week of brethren, it talks about not disputing over days or holy days or disputing over diet and what we eat and what we don't eat and so forth.

If scripture tells us that we should not dispute over these things, I think it is incumbent on us as believers in Christ not to divide over these issues.

Some people are convinced that masks are helpful. God bless them. Some people are convinced they're not helpful.

God bless them. Let's certainly not take out our swords and start dividing over these things.

So that's where I stand. I think that we have to have understanding here, but we should not make this a point of division.

Well, however, would you say that there is a place, a rightful place, for people like our mutual friend and brother

Dr. James R. White to publicly make his grievances over mask mandates known?

He's not silent about this. And in his opinion, he would be in error and perhaps even in sin by not calling to the attention of the public, especially those who hold him in high regard and trust his integrity, trust his knowledge, his research.

He believes that the public is in mass being deceived and are even being, they're placing themselves and others in a false sense of security by wearing these masks, because he believes they are utterly no value at all, especially these masks that the majority of us are wearing, these cloth masks and so on.

Yeah, I think he has a right to speak his mind. And Chris, I share some of what

James has been saying. My position is, because in my church, we do have a number of elderly folks, and we know that the survival rate of people, at least under the age of 70,

I believe it is, the survival rate is 99, over 99 percent, 99 .6,

99 .7 percent. There are some elderly folks who are in their 80s and so forth. And I can understand, they're afraid, because most of the deaths we've had here in Canada are in nursing homes, where people are in their 80s and so forth, they're the most susceptible.

Some of my students just today, a student of mine just emailed me and said, my husband and I both have tested positive for COVID, but we're doing well, we're actually getting better.

So I think Dr. James White has the right to speak his mind. And I can see where he's going, because,

I mean, this is a, if Big Brother government begins to tell you how you should walk out your door, how you should associate with others, when you can and cannot go into a restaurant, or when you can and cannot go into a church,

I can understand where he's going with this. And I think that he has the right to say what he says.

I mean, I would, I am not an American, but I would definitely say that that is a

God -given right. And of course, one of the things that's very interesting about what you just said, that so many people in nursing homes are amongst, include the highest number of fatalities, when these are the very places where the mandates are strictly held, where you're not going to find anybody not wearing a mask, where you're not going to find places that are not sterilized, and where people are not wearing rubber gloves.

And you could go on and on and on, or surgical gloves, I don't know if that would call them rubber gloves, but you know what

I mean. So it's interesting that even in the midst of those precautions that we are being told are the key ways to keep people safe, that's where most of the cases of coronavirus are, and even fatal cases.

Yeah, I mean, that was admitted by the governor of, I believe the governor of New Jersey, he was put on the spot, and they were holding some of the most strictest bylaws on this, masking up and so forth, and yet they had the highest

COVID rates. And going back to our main theme today, the state of the church in Canada, Susan Margaret in Dauphin County, Pennsylvania wants to know, how best can we

Americans pray for our Canadian brothers and sisters in regard to the current state of affairs in regard to the church?

I think that prayer, definitely, prayer is number one here.

I also think that even sending notes of encouragement to these various pastors that I know here in Canada, some of them have received multiple fines that I know that they would not be able to afford.

So what I have done here in Canada is I started a GoFundMe for my good friend

Pastor Rob from Windsor, Ontario, and thanks be to God, in five days we've reached our goal.

We've reached that the people of God have responded generously, not just here in Canada, I believe we've had many from the

United States, I think some from the United Kingdom as well, Pidgeton. These are ways

I think that we can protect one another, but I think prayer is foremost. I think throwing an email and saying, hey, you know, we're behind you, we're praying for you, a word of encouragement really goes a long way.

And I mean that across the board, not just the United States and Canada, but our brothers and sisters in Europe, many of them are facing the same type of restrictions.

So at the end of the day, I think we need to realize, and this is something I've been emphasizing over and over again, we are all part of the same family.

We are all members of His body. And so as Paul says, when one part of the body suffers, we all suffer.

When one part rejoices, we all rejoice. And so the body of Christ transcends national boundaries, it transcends ethnic boundaries.

And in that sense, the Church is Catholic in the sense that it is universal, it's global, it's part of the body of Christ, again, which is made up of all people, every tongue, every tribe, every ethnic group, and so forth.

And this is really a time for us to come together and recognize that we are part of this family, no matter where we are.

We have Christian in western Suffolk County, Long Island, who wants to know, what

Church denominations can you recommend as still being faithful in Canada?

The Churches that tend to be the most faithful in Canada are Reformed Churches.

And I would add, I'm a little biased here, but I would add particularly Reformed Baptist Churches. The one

I just mentioned, my friend's church, Harvest Bible Chapel in Windsor, Ontario, Canada, he told me, in fact, he was on social media in an interview recently, saying his church was the only church that was daring to open during this whole

COVID pandemic. There is one in Toronto, I don't have permission from them to disclose their name, but there is a large church in Toronto that I was also, my wife and I were both members there at one point, that have also remained open.

So, the very few churches that have been borrowed in this area tend to be very strong Reformed Doctrine of Grace churches.

And let's see here. Oh, we have an anonymous listener who says,

I have heard different stories from different Canadian brothers in Christ, and I was wondering if you could settle the matter.

Some of them have told me that nothing of serious consequence has occurred to Christians in Canada by being publicly outspoken against the damnable practice of homosexuality.

Others had said that there have been fines inflicted upon faithful saints exposing this sin for the crime it is.

What is the truth in this matter? Are they talking about churches that have been fined with the closures?

I didn't catch that part, Chris, on homosexuality. Basically, this person has heard different stories from different Canadian Christians.

Some of them are saying that you could speak as freely against homosexuality as any other

Christian. And the others have said, no, no, there have been fines given to people who have been speaking out against this, etc.

That is very true. That is very true, that Christians that have been speaking out against homosexuality have been attacked and shut down.

There was a Christian in Saskatchewan, one of the provinces in Canada, right next to Saskatchewan, there was a pastor there,

I think he was a pastor, who was speaking against homosexuality. He was a former homosexual himself who came to Christ, and he would hand out tracts whenever they would have their pride parade, he would be giving out tracts.

He was arrested, taken to numerous court appearances, and eventually imprisoned.

There was a Christian school actually, in a private school in Alberta, that was told by the

Alberta District Education Board that they were not permitted to put in their curriculum, they were placing, for example, in their curriculum on sexual ethics, they were bringing up passages like 1

Corinthians 6, where Paul talks about, know you not that those who commit these offenses will not enter the

Kingdom of God, among which was homosexuality. They told them to remove that reference, remove references to Romans 1, where the

Apostle Paul, he refers to homosexual practices, Leviticus 18, 22, Leviticus 20,

I believe 15. So there have been cases where schools have been shut down, there have been cases where those who've spoken against homosexuality have been silenced or threatened with hate crime charges, and we know that here now in Canada, it is now illegal.

In Canada, it is illegal if someone were to come to me in a pastoral context, and they're struggling with same -sex attraction or transgenderism or gender dysphoria, if they were to come to me and say,

Pastor, could you help me with conversion therapy? I could be charged, imprisoned.

Any parent, a parent who counsels their children against a sex change, going through a complete sex change, can be charged under our new legislation.

So the United States for now has, I mean, your freedom of speech, in our charter, it doesn't mention freedom of speech, it talks about freedom of expression and freedom of the press and so forth.

And so our rights here in Canada are a little more restricted than the rights that are afforded to you in the

United States. So to speak against any of these sexual deviances here in Canada is to bring down the wrath of the government, no doubt about it.

So I know for a fact that Christians have been attacked, pastors have been attacked, severely fined, and in some cases in prison.

Some of them for, not just speaking against homosexuality, but just for simply praying outside an abortion clinic, they've been arrested.

Now, do you have any update on those folks who have been imprisoned? How long were they in prison for?

I haven't, uh, this was, this, this, uh, Christian Statsman, I think this was about three years ago or four,

I have not heard anything of his release. So it's, it's either he's been released and he's moved somewhere else,

I'm not sure. Uh, but, um, that he was charged, uh, and, and put away, there's no doubt that that did happen.

Now, going back to another phrase that you used, that it is illegal to, uh, offer conversion therapy to a, someone who claims to have same sex attraction or to be, uh, wanting to, or one that identifies themselves as transgendered or what have you.

Right. Obviously that, that's a, uh, a touchy phrase, conversion therapy, because there are organizations that have offered this to those practicing homosexuality and, and having other, uh, unnatural thought processes regarding gender and sexual attraction and so on.

There are things that have been offered that you and I would even say, now, this is just, uh, uh, not in accordance with the word of God.

You know, there are, there are, in other words, we believe in salvation by grace alone, through faith alone, and Christ alone.

And that there are some people who perhaps may even be

Christian who have adopted or recommended therapies that may not be very wise.

So as far as that, what you just said, conversion therapy, do you mean that it's illegal even just to say that if you have this same sex attraction, you must repent because the scriptures are clear.

Not only the activity is sinful, but even the, the burning of one's heart for someone of the same gender that even in and of itself is, is evil and so on.

So is it just as simple as being clear in your opposition homosexuality that it's illegal?

No, no. It's, it's, if you counsel, if you, if you enter into a, a counseling session, or if you're in the position of a pastor, if you, uh, are spending, uh, sessions with, uh, uh, the laity, and, and, uh, someone says, you know what,

I've come to Christ, I, I had homosexual relations in the past, and I realize that these are sinful, and I need pastoral guidance,

I need some, some support, uh, from the pastor, that would be considered a form of conversion therapy.

So preaching against it is, is frowned upon, clearly, but if, if you were to sit down with someone who comes to, even if they come to you,

Chris, of their own voluntary will, if they come to you to seek some pastoral guidance and, and, and moving forward in this, this transition in their life, that would be considered illegal.

Now, now, what, where it really, really, uh, I think where we see the great contradiction here is, let's say someone genuinely, a homosexual says, like,

I've come to Christ, I want to change for the better, I want some guidance in this area, and so forth and so on, but what this law does is violates their rights.

It violates their right to move forward in their lives, because the underlying presupposition in this law here in Canada, Chris, is that, is that you're gay because that's how you were born, and, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

So what they're actually doing is they're undermining the rights of those who genuinely have become

Christians and have abandoned that same -sex, uh, lifestyle. In fact, there are

Christian groups out there that have openly come out and have openly said that, look,

I don't need the government to tell me, uh, uh, who I should talk to and who I should not talk to when it comes to my new life in Christ.

Um, so it's not so much the preaching aspect, Chris, or the lecturing about it, it's, it's when you sit down with someone, even a child, a parent, counseling a child that, no, you're actually a boy,

Bobby, you're a boy, uh, you're not a girl, you may think you are, but this is a phase you're going through.

If that little child tells their school teacher that mommy or daddy was telling me that I'm a boy, even though I told them

I like to play with dolls and I want to be a girl, that teacher has the legal right under this new legislation in Canada.

That teacher has the legal right to report that to the Children's Aid Society, which would be child services in your country, and they would take legal action against the family.

In fact, we had a, a father out in British Columbia, one of our provinces here, in British Columbia, a father, uh, was telling, um, his,

I believe it was a girl who wanted to be a boy, and, and the father refused to acknowledge that.

Well, the kid took his, took the dad to court, and the court fined him.

They fined the father. So, this is the world we're living in now, where the government thinks they own your children, uh, they own, again, they own your life, they tell you where to go, where not to go.

So, we're living in some really, really dark days, very dark days. By the way, we do have a

Children's Aid Society here in America. I don't know if it's the same thing. Oh. There was even a commercial with a ditty, a jingle, but I'm really glad they made the

Children's Aid Society. I don't know if it's the same. I don't know if it's the same.

Like, uh, it sounds like a McDonald's jingle, but okay. Well, if they are the same,

I'm certainly not glad they made it. So, uh, we have to go to our final break right now, and if anybody wants to join us with a question of your own before we run out of time, please send it in right away to chrisarnson at gmail .com.

chrisarnson at gmail .com. As always, give us your first name, at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the

USA. Don't go away. We'll be right back with Tony Costa. James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here.

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Chris Arnzen, and this is our final segment of today's interview with Dr. Tony Acosta on the state of the church in Canada.

And we have Joseph in South Central Pennsylvania who asks, I don't know if I'm mixing

Canada up with another country, but I seem to recall a church receiving an extremely high fine from the government for posting a billboard that did nothing more than cite a passage of scripture that condemned homosexuality.

Am I right in thinking this was Canada? To be honest,

Chris, I don't recall that. That probably may have been outside of Canada.

So you're saying that Canada has not reached that point or something like that would be to an excess?

The closest I come to that, Chris, several years ago, there was a

Christian lady out in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, who was posting in the local newspaper passages of scripture against homosexual practice.

So she was quoting Leviticus and Romans 1 and 1 Corinthians 6, 1 Timothy 1, and so forth.

And, excuse me, I think it's 2 Timothy 1. And she was actually taken to the

Human Rights Commission of Saskatchewan. And eventually a tribunal ordered her to cease and desist, but they basically barred her from posting the scriptures passages in the local paper because they were deemed offensive by the

LGBTQ community. So now what we have here is an instance where the Bible now is being treated as hate literature, and it's now being banned in terms of putting out the message in social media.

So that's the nearest that I can come up with, was this lady, this Christian lady out in Saskatchewan.

Well, I'd like you to now spend some time uninterrupted to summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today regarding the state of the

Canadian church. I want to make it very clear to our listeners that church is absolutely essential.

Church is absolutely essential. The church is the body of Christ. I'm not talking about a building with steeples and stained glass windows.

I'm talking about the living organism of God's people, the people of God in which the

Holy Spirit dwells. And when our government, or any government, comes along and tells you that you, as the church, are no longer essential, while allowing liquor stores to be open because they're deemed essential, or adult movie stores are allowed to be open, or Costco, or Walmart, or you can travel in an aircraft shoulder -to -shoulder with other passengers, when they say that these other things are essential and the church is not essential,

I think that we have now seen an example where the government has clearly crossed the line, and there is something nefarious, there is something,

I believe, diabolical behind this. And so what I'm saying is this. Take a stand.

As Christians, never, ever allow the government to tell you how you should worship God, when you should come together, and to protect your

God -given rights, and to realize that the church cannot be sustained on virtual devices like Zoom or Skype.

The church is a tangible body that comes together. That's why Hebrews 10 .25 tells us, "...forsake

not the assembling of yourselves together, as is the habit of some, especially as the days grow more evil."

When Paul talks about when you come together, when you assemble, this is a call to physically come together.

And so the church is not just the salt of the earth, she is the light of the world.

She is the extension of Christ's body on the earth. And the church is super essential.

People need love. They need to be loved. They need to be shown that we care.

And the church is the spiritual hospital of the world. And therefore, I would argue, we should continue to make that very clear.

That yes, we will obey God -given authority. But when the government tramples on God's law, then that is where we must say, as Peter and John said in Acts 5 .29,

we ought to obey God rather than men. And so, let us stay the course.

And let us, as in the old hymn, stand up, stand up for Jesus. Praise God.

Well, Dr. Costa, if you could spend about a minute giving us any updates on things that you want our listeners to be aware of, any kind of speaking engagements, books,

Zoom meetings, what have you. Sure. Actually, thank you for bringing that up,

Chris. I am teaching a course, an online course, beginning January the 24th. It will run for eight consecutive

Sunday evenings, January the 24th until March 14th, from 7 p .m.

until 9, 30 p .m. Eastern Standard Time. It is entitled, Countdown to the Last Days, a

Biblical Study of End Times. And so, we'll be discussing various issues pertaining to the last days, the coming of Christ, and questions about the

Tribulation, and is there a rapture before the Tribulation, or is it post -Trib, or is it mid -Trib, and questions about the

Millennium, the Antichrist, the Mark of the Beast. We're going to be discussing things like the

Great Reset that we hear about among Western governments, the UN Agenda 2030.

And so, this will be a balanced study, seminary level, but we'll make it relatable to our students.

It's open to anyone. We've had students from every continent in the world who've taken courses like this.

We're charging a $99 Canadian fee, which covers not just the recorded lectures.

We also provide slide presentations, handouts. It is live. Students can join us live, but some of our students live in time zones that do not make it possible for them to join, but we do provide everything on recorded lectures and all the resources.

So, if you're interested, send an email to torontoapologetics at gmail .com.

That's all one word, torontoapologetics at gmail .com. In terms of writing, there's a book of mine that's going to be coming out sometime,

I think, winter or spring of 2021, a couple of months, on the earliest creeds and hymns of the

Church. So, I'll keep you up to date on that, Chris. I want everybody to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater