Interview with the Spurgeon of El Pochote - Part 2

The Rural Church Podcast. Two-point-up. Just a couple of pastors discussing life, ministry, theology, and the gospel from a local church perspective. Eddie, what's it time for?

The Rural Church Podcast.

Well, this is part two of a two-part episode that we did, an interview with Pastor Christian Martinez from Veracruz in El Pechote in Veracruz, Mexico. Faithful brother and pastor, if you haven't listened to part one, you should go back and do that first.

You'll be blessed. You'll be blessed by this episode as well. One of the things we talk about in this episode toward the end, we just mentioned, is the Fellowship of International Reform Missions firm headed by Randall Easter and Jonathan Murdoch.

Jonathan later in the episode will give his email. You should inquire more about that if you're interested and send him an email and ask him questions. This is through the organization is how we met Pastor Christian, and it's just amazing to see that all the work that God is doing there.

In this episode, you also learn some ways that you can pray for Pastor Christian. We share some good laughs about some tamales we ate down there as well. It's a great time hanging out with these brothers, and we hope that you're blessed by this episode.

The Church in El Pochote and Yanga

All right, here we go. You have any thoughts about all that Christian has said so far?

Yeah, well, I wanted to ask, so Christian, your town there, is that where you're from?

Is that your home? Yes.

Well, now I'm living in Yanga. It's the next town near.

So Christian's talking about Pachote and Yanga. It's like a mile away, like two miles from one to the other.

By his home, I mean, is that where you grew up as a child?

Christian's dad was a missionary in the mountains of Oaxaca and Guerrero, and so he grew up in the mountains. He was a missionary kid.

Well, and can you tell us a little bit about that community that your church is in? Could you tell us a little bit about, I mean, I know we talked about what size it was, but can you tell us kind of about what goes on there?

What do people do for a living there? What kind of life do people have in.

El Pachote?

Mm hmm. The most part of the population here was dedicated to the to the fields. Sugar cane.

A lot of people sell food or have a store. There's a big highway that's very close that so it's a good—it's like on the way, you know, it's like a middle stop for people. There's a lot of construction there as well.

And so how far is that is your community from Veracruz?

One hour and a half.

Oh, wow.

Fencing the Lord's Table

Um, Christian, can you talk to us about, should we let everybody come to the Lord's table?

No, sure. Not everyone can come to the Lord's table.

We have a—we practice a semi-closed Lord's Supper. All the members of our church can and should come to the Lord's table. We've had occasions where people asked to take part of Lord's Supper. But if we don't know them and we don't know where they come from, we don't feel comfortable allowing them to come to the table.

Because we don't know their lives. We've had brothers that come to visit. We know their testimony, we know their life, we know their family. And we open the opportunity that they come to the table with us at our church.

And some of the churches here in our context, in the Baptist churches, we've even seen children that come and take of the Lord's Supper. This is something that causes my heart to be sad, and it's a burden to my heart.

For the seriousness that the Lord Jesus Christ and the Apostle Paul has given to this ordinance.

Why the Local Church Matters

I got a few more questions. I know we're kind of going long, we may end up splitting into two, but first question I have, Christian, is this. Why do you love the local church? You're out there in small town, Veracruz, Mexico, and you're doing crazy stuff like preaching expository sermons, having five-month membership classes, disciplining, fencing the Lord's table.

Why do you love the local church?

I love seeing the words, the word of God in human, broken, and that they are in a battleship with the sin and with the word of God. I love seeing how the Lord broke these hearts and make a new creation in their lives.

I love seeing how the Lord works.

In my church. Amen. Now, I know you're a humble man, and so you may not feel like you can answer this question, but I want you to. I don't know how many folks listen, but there are pastors and church members who listen to this.

What would you say, whether they're in a rural church, a small church like ours or not, what are some words of exhortation and encouragement you would give to people who are in churches? Let me give you an example real quick.

I was at a church one time. It was a number of years ago. At the end of the service, these people came forward. They wanted to join the church. It was only their second Sunday. I'd never known them before.

They came, and they wanted to join the church. I told them I was encouraged that they wanted to join the church, but that we needed to meet. They got mad, and they didn't ever come back. There's all sorts of strange membership practices.

There's neglect of church discipline. There's neglect of fencing the Lord's table. There's neglect of caring about people coming in. I'm just asking you, Christian, from your perspective and what you know about the Bible, what word of exhortation would you give to churches that are listening to this, pastors, church members?

What would you say about the local church to them?

We can never take our eyes off of Christ. Our work doesn't rest on our own works. It's based on the glorious work of Jesus Christ. It can be frustrating as pastors or brothers and sisters in Christ, but this encourages us in the scripture, everyone who is tired and wore out.

We should understand that the work is the Lord's work, and as pastors and members, we should understand that it's His work, not ours. That's where we can rest on the Lord's work and in His church. He's going to grow His church, and even contrary to our failures.

That doesn't make us less responsible, but it makes us more responsible, knowing that it's His work and not ours.

Fellowship of International Reformed Missions

Amen. Okay, this question is for Jonathan, but I want Christian to weigh in. We could probably do a whole episode on this, but you talked on Harold's podcast about FIRM. The question I want to get to with Christian is, how has FIRM helped him, and how has he been encouraged by that?

But I can't really ask that question without a quick little, what am I talking about when I talk about FIRM?

So FIRM, it's easy. Fellowship of International Reform Missions. The idea is that churches would have fellowship one with another under the confession of the 1689 confession, Second London Confession, that we would have fellowship together for the purpose of training pastors, planting and reformed churches.

And while doing that, we meet Christian. So Christian, how has FIRM helped you, encouraged you, and served you? FIRM was a bucket of fresh water on my life. I know a lot of brothers in a lot of places in Mexico, in United States, but this is very special.

Not every brother is going to come, encourage you, preach, and lift you up. And at the same time, encourage you to do the same with others. It's been a great blessing to me to know the brothers in FIRM.

Nothing is lost in doctrine and the doctrine of the church. Many churches have taken doctrine and set it aside. So to see brothers who know and love and live these doctrines has been a great blessing.

And to see brothers who are learning these things from zero, you know, these doctrines. It's very emotional to see the work of the Lord here in Mexico.

Amen. Eddie, I know it's emotional for you, but it's emotional for me too. And I probably haven't talked to you much about this. I've talked to you some about it, but Jonathan and Eddie know more. And that is, you don't understand what being around you and being around what God is doing in Mexico, you don't understand what that's done to me and what that has done to my heart and what that has even done.

Jonathan knows and Eddie knows what it's done even to our local church here in Second Baptist Perryville. I was right doctrinally, but applying these things, I was dragging my feet too slowly in certain areas.

And so one of the things that just pushed me over the edge was being around brothers like you, Kristen, and your family and your church and the conference. And to see that the Lord is at work in Mexico, it's overwhelming.

It's an amazing encouragement. Eddie, do you have anything?

Yeah, this is just great to hear about the life of the church there in your church, Kristen. And I'm encouraged to hear. I think sometimes we can forget that God is doing kingdom work all over the world.

And we can get maybe seeing, we can get so focused in on problems, even big problems like you were speaking of earlier with the problems with numbers and convention and all those kinds of things. And then sometimes we can get weighed down by the problems maybe that we see in our own congregations.

Sometimes we even lose a view of really grace for our own churches. And I think it's just encouraging to hear about what God is doing in other congregations, encourages us for what God is building among the brothers and sisters we have with our own local church.

And so I'm just encouraged to hear about all that God is doing in your church and thankful for what He is doing in growing His kingdom. So praise the Lord.

Amen. And I want to add here, it reminds us that the Great Commission happens in a local church and through the local church and not dependent on organizations. Amen. I mean, we just, you know, we have a great fellowship with Christian of a town of 120 people.

There's so much more we could.

Tamales, the "Spurgeon of El Pochote," and Real Friendship

Talk about, and I guess we'll probably have to have Christian back on, but I know because I've seen it with my own eyes. I know that Christian's doing evangelism. I know that the church cares about, you know, reaching the lost, and it's an amazing thing.

Sometimes, you know, we get so arrogant sometimes. People, and we keep going back on this. Jonathan, every time you're on, we go back on this, but the idea of you just have to give this money to an organization, and if we don't do that, if we don't do that, well, what's going to happen to the mission?

And it's like, look, I've seen with my own eyes the mission of Christ marching forward in a little place in Mexico with a faithful pastor, so I'm very encouraged. I do have two closing questions, but you guys, Jonathan or Eddie, you got anything?

Yeah, I have two really.

Pointed. One really pointed question for you, Alan, and if you don't feel comfortable sharing this or responding to this online, you don't want it recorded, I understand. So I've seen your heart and your desire, really a fire built in your heart, and I think part of it had to do with Pachote, but I just want to know percentage-wise, like what percentage is due to the tamale you ate.

At Pachote? Yeah, it's deeply personal, and I don't know if I want to share this online, but I'm just going to say that wasn't the best tamale I've ever eaten alone, easily the best tamale I've ever eaten, but I don't know if that wasn't one of the best articles of food that I've eaten ever.

They bring these things out wrapped up in banana leaves, and Jonathan told me, Jonathan encouraged me, and I kind of wish he wouldn't have told me, but he said, hey, look, when you're eating food in Mexico, it's okay, eat, enjoy it, be careful about overindulging.

You like something and eating too much of it, and then sometimes it can make guys sick or whatever. Dude, I really wanted to eat like three of those. That was so good. Eddie, you don't even understand.

I've tried to explain somebody's like, I don't like tamales. I'm like, no, no, get that out of your mind. So, I don't know, 80 percent, I don't know. 80 percent, there you go.

Did you have another question? No, that was it, that was it. Yeah, so I got a question kind of.

Like that, and then I do have a serious question, but my question kind of like that is for you, Christian, is that how do you handle being the Spurgeon of Pachote? Is that a heavy load? Is it like Batman, you know, Bruce Wayne, having to carry that?

How do you deal with that?

Yeah, so he's asking, how do you live with the Spurgeon of Pachote title? How can you live with this?

It's a huge burden on my shoulders.

Yeah, yeah, you guys aren't looking at Christian, but his face and his beard is so funny. I'm like, that could be a young Spurgeon just in Mexico. So, all right, here's the question I want, and I want you to think about it.

People listening to this, like, how can we pray for you? What are things going on? You don't have to share anything, you know, too personal, but how can we pray for you? How can we pray for your church?

And just share about that. Okay, two things.

First, that the Lord making in us a faithful heart for his work, and that this faithfulness we can, with this heart, with this faithfulness heart, we could, we can share the gospel to others. These two things, that the Lord making us a faithful heart, continue with his work, his work in us, and through this, we could share the gospel with every single person that we know.

That's it. Amen. If you're listening, it'd be a good time to just pause, and as while it's fresh on your mind, to pray, and you could even write down Grace Baptist Church, El Pechote, and pray. Pray for Pastor Christian, and your wife's name is Teresa?

Teresa. Teresa. His wife's name is Teresa. His mother's name is Teresa. His grandmother's name is Teresa. Popular. Popular. So, pray. Pray for Christian and Teresa, and Grace Baptist, and pray for the kingdom to continue to be expanding in Mexico, and praise God for what's going on there.

Pray for Jonathan, and Firm, and if you're wanting to know any more about this, you can just get in touch with us, and I think Jonathan, you shared your email on another podcast, so you want to share that again.

If somebody has a question more, like, man, I'd like to know more about what you're doing with Firm, and all.

That kind of stuff. Yeah, it's Jonathan, J-O-N-A-T-H-A-N underscore Murdoch at yahoo .com. So, Jonathan.

Underscore. Murdoch, yahoo .com. Yeah, Lord's doing some great stuff. Eddie, you got it? You got.

Anything else as we think about closing here? No, I'm just very encouraged to hear about all that's happening. I don't want to try to say the name of Christian's town, because I know I can't say it correctly, but just thankful for what God is doing there, and you said I didn't know anything about those tamales.

However, I will say about 20 years ago, I was on a trip to Reynosa, Mexico, and they served us some tamales that sound very similar to what you are describing.

I don't know something about them. This was like the food of angels.

This is what Elijah ate after he ran from Jezebel. Right, right. Eddie, do you have a passport, Eddie? That's my question for you. I do have a passport. Well, then what are you waiting on?

Amen, amen. I'm looking forward to Christian getting to see you face to face again, and Lord willing, that's going to be, we got to talk about the trips next year, but I'm looking as if the Lord wills, we're on board, brother, and we love you, man, and I'm so encouraged.

You don't understand. I just need to communicate this too, because I know your kind of demeanor, but you encourage me, and I know that you encourage Eddie as he's heard your story today, and you'll encourage those who, I'm going to send this specifically to some people.

I think we'll probably put it in two episodes, but I'm going to send it specifically, and let folks listen to this, and let them know about what's going on, because sometimes we need a bigger, and all the time, we need a bigger vision of what God's doing.

We get so tunneled, and we just get focused right here in Perryville, or even the SBC. What do you think the SBC is so big? God's doing things even bigger than that for the glory of Christ.

You know, Cuatro, I have another question I think it would be good for you to answer. This really is a serious one. So you meet Christian, right? There's a difference, especially in evangelical America.

We meet a guy from another country, and sometimes it becomes tokenism, right? Like this is our token of missions, right? Can you describe the difference between tokenism and a friendship that you've created with Christian, like a genuine brotherhood?

Yeah. So like you don't have Christian on here today as a token. No, no, I got him on here.

Because I love him as a brother. Christian and I, I don't know, you let me know, Christian, but we probably talk on what's that called? What's that several times a week, maybe not every day, but almost every day.

We just shoot a message back and forth. I consider him not just a brother and a pastor that's somewhere else, but actually I consider him a friend. And I know now at this point, I've just known him barely over a month, but praise God, by the way, for technology.

You know, technology is so frustrating sometimes, and there's so many bad things that we can do with technology, and I get it, but praise God. I feel like we're living in the era of a new reformation, like with Luther and the printing press, but here we have Zoom and we have WhatsApp, and I'll give you an example.

I went to Romania in 2011, and I did feel a connection with some of my translators there, and it was nice, but I was just, all we had was Facebook. I really wasn't able to stay in contact with them, and we just kind of lost touch.

But with Christian, it's different for a couple reasons. One, because ideologically, we're so much alike, and you go there like, what's your confession? Uh, the 1689. Is there another? Is there another?

Yeah, and so like I said earlier, I think it's appropriate to say that the Lord is, or I feel like it, I hope Christian feels the same way, the Lord has knit our hearts together in a friendship, you know, and where I look at this, like there are things I can imagine myself asking Christian's advice on, like, you know, like, what do you think about this?

I don't see this as a relationship of me, the older pastor from America, I'm going to talk down to you, the younger pastor from Mexico. No, I see this as a mutual friend, and in many ways, I look up to Christian and his work and his faithfulness, and I'm grateful to have him as a partner in the ministry, and as a brother in Christ, and as a.

Friend. So, you know, you have this woke stuff going on, and some people would have a friend like Christian so that they could try to be woke, like so they could wake up, and it's like, but whenever God forms those relationships together, like, that gap's bridged of cultural, and we even delight in those cultural things, but it's mutually edifying, and it's not tokenism, and I think that's huge.

I think for me, looking on you guys having a friendship, you know, outside of, you know, our little group that we have in FIRM, it's a blessing to me to see that, to say, you know, this isn't tokenism, either for Christian or for you, Alan.

So, I don't see Christian thinking, oh, I've got the token of a white pastor in the United States in Perryville, Arkansas, which is right by Toadstook, and then you don't have the tokenism of, I have the Spurgeon of Pechote's, you know, I got them on WhatsApp, you know what I mean, and so it's beautiful to me to look on that and say, this is a real relationship, and that's cool.

That's encouraging.

To me. To me, the same. You guys encourage my life, and I praise God for you. Amen, brother.

Amen. It's amazing providence, and all that the Lord has done, and the story of how I even ended up in El Pechote is interesting in and of itself, but praise God for His work, and all that He's doing.

Boy, I feel like we've said we're going to close. This is a Baptist sermon right here, isn't it? No kidding. We're going to end here. Yeah, and then you got another 20 minutes, but we praise the Lord for you, and I'm grateful for all three of you brothers, and so I guess with that, we will officially end the Rural Church Podcast.

Thanks for listening. Catch you guys next week.

Say bye, Eddie. See you next week, folks.