Vindicated w/Captain Brad Geary

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02:26

We need to talk. It's been a rough ride from a culture bent on burning itself down to attacks from within But by the grace of God, we've been given a moment a chance to make lasting changes

02:41

We can rebuild what's been torn down, but we have to build with what will last the gospel of the kingdom this

02:49

April Let's sit down. Let's talk about what matters And together we'll build something that lasts

02:58

Reform con 2025 tickets are limited. Lord. William will see you in Tucson Non rock a bonus must stop.

03:13

I don't want to rock the boat. I want to sink it Are you gonna bark all day little doggie or are you gonna bite?

03:24

Delusional yeah delusional is okay in your worldview. I'm an animal. You don't chastise chickens for being delusional You don't chastise pigs for being delusional.

03:31

So you calling me delusional using your worldview is perfectly. Okay, it doesn't really hurt I Desperate times call for faithful men and not for careful men

03:47

The careful men come later and write the biographies of the faithful men lauding them for their courage really hurt

03:59

Going to all the world make disciples not going to the world make buddies not to make brosives, right?

04:05

Don't go in the world make homies right disciples. I got I got a bit of a jiggle Nick That's a joke pastor when we have the real message of truth

04:16

We cannot let somebody say they're speaking truth when they're not You shall do no wrong in judgment and measures of length or weight or quantity.

04:41

You should have just balances just weights adjust FF F. I never know how to say that word and adjust him

04:48

I am the Lord your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt and you shall observe All my statutes and all my rules and do them.

04:56

I am the Lord That is Leviticus Chapter 19 verses 35 through 37.

05:06

What's up, everyone? Welcome back to another episode of apologia radio Sorry for the mess about the beginning trying to do too many things at once I am flying solo today other than my guests who

05:15

I will introduce here in a minute Pastor Jeff is was trying to get back today from Ohio, but got stuck again

05:22

For whether it's like the third or fourth time. He's gotten stuck over there He's been doing some work for EAM this week and Kentucky and Ohio we should have bills in there maybe today actually

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So pastor That kind of work couldn't be on today either. So I'm just flying solo, but excited for the show

05:40

I'm gonna get into here really quickly. First. I want to thank Our sponsors

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06:34

So Let's just get right into it. I have Returning I'll introduce

06:40

Brad first since I already mentioned his name, but captain Brad Geary Navy SEAL awesome brother become a

06:49

Amazing friend and I'm grateful to have him back on. So what's up Brad? Welcome back You're good good to see you good to be back really appreciate you man.

06:57

Yeah, likewise and then of course his Attorney and our attorney for stainless warriors who's back on for like the gazillion time

07:07

Davis young and every time he comes back his beard is better So let's we'll start we'll start in chronological order here first You know what?

07:26

I'm just gonna play this Well, if you if you guys have seen With Brad on before we got he got introduced to stainless warriors.

07:33

We've been representing him with the whole mess he got accused falsely accused of when he was commander at buds and we found a couple of times to talk about that and just been helping to support him and pray for him and I'm gonna play this

07:48

Clip here real quick and just introduce it So this was what was the date on that that would have been

07:55

What was that date? December 12th or 13. Yep. Yep. That's correct. So I got a call from Davis Who broke the news to me and that well and then and I immediately

08:11

Photocalled Brad and I was like, are you kidding me? And he's like, how did you hear? Davis Davis So, let me play this just real quick we'll play a section so so Sean Ryan's reading a letter that the

08:23

Brad received I'll play sorry from chief of Navy personnel to captain

08:33

Bradley Geary commander Navy Regent Southwest Commander Naval Special Warfare Command Notification of administrative show cause dismissal

08:48

One following the show cause decision in reference a you elected to appear before a board of inquiry

08:56

Since initiating this process and through legal counsel you raised numerous manners to commander

09:02

Navy Regent Southwest which resulted in my decision to grant a Continuance to afford you more time for preparation to ensure the additional information you requested would be available insufficient time prior to the

09:15

BOI To since granting your last continuance, I have reviewed your case again and after careful consideration

09:26

Determined that you are no longer required to show cause for retention in accordance with reference be

09:33

Case dismissed So I talked to man.

09:39

How awesome is that? So you were back you were on Sean Ryan what back in Like the summer

09:46

I was like June July maybe somewhere in there. I'm trying to remember the exact date. Yeah somewhere around Actually, I think

09:52

I recorded before that. It just took oh, that's right You get like 10 weeks for them to edit it we ended up we sat there for probably eight and a half hours and they

10:02

Edited that down to about six and so it took some time to get that dialed in. That's right.

10:08

Yeah, that's a good episode I think that might be the longest episode. He's had what you're saying a lot because he's got some

10:13

I wanted to have for sure Great episode though. If you guys want to check that out, but yeah, so just man amazing news.

10:22

I've been excited to Talk about this for a minute. We finally got an opportunity to do so but yeah, so tell us about that What's going on there and we'll bring

10:31

Davis on for the legal side of it. Sure, man It's so good,

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I mean God gets all the glory for this one clearly he he showed us each step to take along the way So someone said recently man

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Brad It was amazing how you masterfully strategize this whole thing like a chessboard from day one and set these pieces in motion

10:51

I had to laugh out loud Saying no, it was really like walking through a fog where I had no idea what we were going but every single step we took was done prayerfully and And in consideration of are we speaking or we're making this decision based from our pain or from an attempt to glorify

11:08

God and Take a step out of faith and based upon The principles that we believe in and we knew that as long as we did that wherever each step took us

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We could sleep well at night know that we made those steps deliberately and not not haphazardly and not out of rash human emotions

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And so it it was good and God was faithful and he walked us through that almost three -year process there

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So I was out on the front lawn on a separate call and I got a phone call that morning I had no idea it was coming and Said the it was the the legal office at our

11:40

Tycom and I as a guy to hang up dude I think I'm in trouble again. I'm getting a call for bags

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That was my first instinct and they said a case has been dismissed. It's for all intents and purposes as if it never happened

11:53

Words he used and they said you're free to retire So at this point, we've now submitted for our retirement as of a few weeks ago and we're starting that process

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Lots of medical appointments involved in that turns out Almost 30 years of active -duty service 25 of those as a

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Navy SEAL isn't so good on the body So we're now tossing those tees dotting those eyes and figuring out

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All the all the problems that I've kind of just dealt with over the last couple decades, but we're in a big place.

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It's funny it's like taking off a thousand -pound rucksack, but Those muscles are still tense and tight after almost three years of just that strain

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And so it really took us it took us the whole Christmas season to really Focus on breathing and decompressing and and just being thankful and so we're in a great place right now as a family

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We're just we're spending this season in gratitude because God's good man. He's good.

12:43

Amen Praise the Lord. Well Davis, what do you what are your thoughts on that just from the legal perspective?

12:50

man, there's there's so much to unpack about all of this what I will say from from my perspective is

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God laid the plans for everything that happened in this case a Long time ago right before you know

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You or I met Brad and it's just fascinating how all that came together the right people came together at the right time

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Sean Ryan and just the way everything built from just a willingness to try to jump in and do what we believed was the right thing so, you know, this is

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This is not unprecedented what happened to Brad as far as this BOI getting dismissed

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But just so everybody can understand. I mean this was an Op an attempt by the

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Navy to label to blame Brad for a death to label him as Something other than an honorable service member and to take away his retirement after close to 30 years of service

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I mean, that's what was at stake short of a court -martial This is administratively the worst thing they could do to an officer.

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So this is you know, this is a career This is a pension. This is a reputation. This is honor that was at stake.

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That's how serious this was So it's it's hard to describe unless you've gone through it What it is like for someone to experience the relief of knowing?

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Okay, this this is going away now and I'm going to be able to finish out my career I'm gonna be able to retire honorably and I'm gonna be able to you know

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Hang up my hat and walk into the next plans that God has for me without this Staying hanging over my reputation.

14:22

So just an amazing blessing from God the way this all worked out Has there Brad has there been any pushback from the the mother?

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I know that it was kind of causing a lot of issues for you early on. Yeah, she's upset She she went vocal with a few different news outlets to include

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I think Good Morning America had her on recently and She's frustrated and and like we've discussed and almost every time

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I've gone public rightly so sure because she was never given the full truth and and I do hope that she and the family get some closure here soon we

14:54

We just hit in fact just I think it was last week February 4th was the three -year anniversary of when

15:00

Kyle died Family, we deliberately sat together and prayed for her and the whole Mullen family that day

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And we really do pray for closure for them and for reconciliation One day would be such a such a

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God glorifying thing to see Yeah, she has my phone number I still hope for the day where we've established comms again and can repair what's been broken.

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Yeah, that's such a good point I hadn't even thought about just you know praying for her and like like you said like you've been vindicated

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But she's still her, you know Hasn't got any real answers from the death of her son And now the

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Navy's just kind of saying like trying to dismiss it brushing under the rug like nothing happened So yeah, that's got to be rough for sure

15:41

So do you guys I'll ask you both And this will kind of bring us into the other part of this conversation, but if Trump doesn't get elected

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Do you do you think this happens? Do you think that the charges are dropped? Davis is shaking his head.

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I Think it was multivariable But the in the end you you can't hide it from the facts and the evidence that we had on our side

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Sure, so I mean when when Jason and I Jason Ware my original attorney before we

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Linked up with Davis who joined the team and then of course everyone's tracking Tim parlatory and and Mark Jessup another fantastic Navy Jag that was assigned to our case as well we had quite the legal team by the end, but but everyone that looked at the evidence kept telling us a

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Victory is absolutely going to happen because you can't run from these facts and evidence.

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We have their slam -dunk Nuggets of info that people fed us over the the three -year battle

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It's just a matter of how long and what it looks like So I think we would I think victory would have looked differently had

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President Trump not been elected But it was it was gonna happen either way. It was just a matter of time and how it manifested.

16:56

Yeah Davis why were you shaking your head? Well, I was shaking my head because I don't think the

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BOI would have been dismissed if it was not for the election of Trump, I mean I 100 % agree with Brad this this was a case to win.

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The facts were very very clear You can't change them. The reality was very very clear This was political and motivated by things we can get into later as as to how it even got this far

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So I don't think the outcome would have been different But I I think that it wouldn't have been dismissed like this if it wasn't for a change in leadership

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So I it was an opportunity quite frankly It was an opportunity for the Navy to step away and do the right thing when

17:38

President Trump was like, yeah The right thing was there for them to do all along and we were gonna I you know

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I believe we were going to reach this conclusion Regardless, but it was it was a huge blessing that it happened this way

17:52

For many many reasons so for people like me. Can you explain what a BOI is? Yeah, yeah, so it's a it's it's what we call the administrative separation process for an officer in the

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Navy So it's a Board of Inquiry. That's what they call it. So think of it I mean, you know, the only way to understand it outside of the military is to think of it like a trial

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It is very similar to a trial. It's just it's an administrative process So when someone in the military has more than six years in of service in they can't simply be kicked out

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Without going before a Board of Inquiry or an administrative separation board So it feels a lot like a trial you have three service members that act as the jury

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And then there's a legal advisor. So it's it's slightly different than a criminal trial because jail is not on the table

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It's an administrative process The burden of proof is actually lower but discovery all the aspects that you think of of a criminal trial are part of that process

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So it go ahead I'm sorry Sorry, I was gonna say it's worth bringing up and Davis and Jason both addressed this at points in the

18:56

Sean Ryan interview this is this is part of What I learned through this three -year process.

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We're asking for reform because On for namesake what the Navy will tell you is this administrative boards are non -punitive in nature and they'll say that all the time

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It's not punitive. It's administrative but if you're talking about a process that can give you another honorable discharge and And demote you in retirement taking, you know your retirement benefits

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That is absolutely punitive. You talk to any soldier sailor or airman who's dealing with an other than honorable discharge

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It changes the course of your life. That is a punitive thing All administrative and that's part of the problem here too as Davis mentioned here is it's shy of a legal court

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But then that means it's not bound by the same legal standards for evidentiary collection and proof

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And so it's it's all based upon a board's feelings on whether you did something that's worth this or not

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And so in a sense what ends up happening and I've talked to hundreds of people that have gone now through the similar thing as me

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What ends up happening is? Functionally due process rights are violated Because because they can they can use shoddy investigations.

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They can use hearsay They can use opinions and they add all these things to their sometimes not based on maliciousness

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Sometimes it's just it's just incompetence. Sometimes it's incompetence with malice But either way it gets into this into this board and now

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Confirmation bias can set in and a sailor or soldier or airman has said it is significant disadvantage standing before this board arguing their case

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All for things that I think in the end disproportionately punish Honorable service member.

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This is your reward for serving your nation We're gonna put you through the ringer and call it non punitive

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And call you to the table and question your years of active -duty service because of what some anonymous allegation out there

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It's it's really unjust and I think it's created a system that has disincentivized a lot of people from being interested in serving

20:57

My case was not an anomaly This was a symptom of a larger problem within the

21:04

Department of Defense And I think our soldiers as an airmen are seeing that problem and are starting to vote with their feet

21:09

I think these things are absolutely tied to our retention and recruitment challenges Thank you. Kind of getting fixed as we saw the news break the other day for 2025 recruiting goals for the army

21:18

I think people are seeing we're riding the ship But but either way this entire administrative process needs to be overhauled.

21:26

So I didn't see that recruitment numbers are up then I'm assuming Yeah for 2025 already hit their requirement or something.

21:33

I'm I mean, I may be misquoting it but Secretary Hicks put that out on a social media tweet the other day and Pretty impressive that we're a month and a half in 2025 already.

21:45

Well, what do you feel good? Yeah, well, yeah So the army the army is having to expand basic training and their capacity of basic training for all the recruits coming in there

21:55

They said a 15 year record. I think it was a month for the month of January, but it's a 15 year record

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Wow in recruiting Wow, so yeah So just to piggyback on Some of what

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Brad was talking about as far as this administrative process just to kind of understand it in in terms that That will frustrate people listening, but that makes sense is

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What has happened when you take away, you know common sense Fundamental notions of justice when you take away big biblical principles

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What you have is a military justice system where there are cases that everyone knows

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There is not enough evidence to support a criminal conviction, right? So if it went in front of a judge

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There's no way it would even get that far but there is this this Avenue this administrative

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Avenue within the military process where Allegations that wouldn't hold up in any other setting can be pushed forward to this

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Boi this Board of Inquirer this administrative separation process and and you're left with really unequal justice because the quality of the process and what happens that board is dependent on You know the three officers that they pick as jurors, that's the best way to understand them for this setting

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So I've done, you know hundreds of these boards across all the branches of service and inevitably the outcome really is determined by the willingness of those board members to do the right thing and to push back against their leadership because you know

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Brad used the term confirmation bias Absolutely the problem if the Admiral is saying if the general is saying hey

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We're taking this to a board for you to consider kicking this person out and taking away, you know Everything they've earned through their service.

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There's this pressure on these board members often to reach that outcome, right? And that's the problem.

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So we go in there into this process and we have to say no the Constitution still applies

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You know presumption of innocence is still supposed to apply that the Navy the Air Force The Army still has to prove their case and that can be a very very difficult challenge

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So, I mean we've had tremendous success in some of those I've had tremendous success in those and there are others where you just sit there and shake your head because the outcome felt predetermined

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So that's you know, that's why we need reform and all of the things that are happening in this administration whether it's in the

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DOD or just through other parts of the federal government is this Bureaucratic entanglement has gotten so out of control

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That there really is bureaucratic tyranny and it's not just in the military

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It's through all of these administrative processes where at best to the extent you are provided due process

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It's due process light And so all of these administrative rules can be used to destroy your life to take away your livelihood your reputation all of these things sometimes your property and you don't have the full and Anticipated concept of you know, what we think of as constitutional protection.

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So at best in these proceedings It's it's due process light which is a very difficult avenue to navigate and you are often at the whims of these bureaucrats and people forget the military is filled with bureaucratic functionaries at many levels of leadership and that's where the reform is because if that's the mindset if people in the military are more concerned about their career and You know how they move up in the bureaucracy that is a very dangerous system to be a part of but you can't handle the truth

25:23

Davis That's probably your favorite movie, isn't it? No, it's not.

25:30

Well, it's that Love that stuff So, I mean obviously how long were you a jag for you got a you would do the 20 years, right?

25:43

Were you a jag the whole time? Right, yeah, 11 years active duty and then nine

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Guard and reserve so you've you've seen The you know, worst of the worst and so, you know talking about reforming all this.

25:57

I mean What without putting like you on the spot like I mean, how much have you seen?

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Situations where you're like, this is awful besides Brad like The Brad is vindicated but I mean how many times have you seen guys we were like they weren't vindicated and they suffer and they got

26:16

You know charged wrongly Yeah, so, you know, I started out my career in the

26:21

Air Force as a prosecutor and I was a prosecutor at two different You know two different installations, but but my my career is a defense attorney.

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I never wanted to be a defense attorney I never wanted to be that person I always thought I would be a prosecutor wear the white hat and then

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I was assigned to the Air Force Academy and they the Air Force really didn't give me a choice

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I had to become a defense attorney and what I saw there was The beginning of problems seeping into the system that were there they were already there, but it just was the outpouring of it, which is a really outcome based

26:56

Military justice system and not a truth or justice based system. And and what I mean by that is this whole idea

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This is the problem. We use terms like, you know, progressive woke Marxist DEI What is the problem with all of that?

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the problem with all of it is we create these systems that are designed to protect people and create protected classes and What that does is divorce us from the truth.

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So so what am I saying here to be very blunt? we're talking about situations where if someone complains that they are a victim of anything of Being told something that made them sad of any any kind of a crime in the military system

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The system just had this ideology seep in that we can never blame the victim and we're if someone's a victim of Something some type of oppression, whatever it is.

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We're not gonna hold them accountable for their own actions So what you had is this?

27:52

I mean this wild idea things like If you are in the military and you are in trouble yourself

28:00

You've done something wrong that could get you in trouble but you raise your hand and say no I was the victim of a sexual assault or sexual harassment just as an example you and You we now have these safe to report policies and make it so you won't be hold held accountable for your own actions

28:14

So the problem is we've gone from a system where we need to protect The people who are serving our country and ensure they are protected to one where we reward a lack of accountability and people can

28:26

Manipulate and abuse the system. So the kind of things I see all the time not like Brad's case

28:31

But the kind of things I see all the time are you know a a spouse

28:37

Cheats often their significant other they get caught and they use the military system to gain an advantage in divorce and custody

28:45

Proceedings by bringing false allegations that no one will ever question the truth of so even if it goes to trial and there's an acquittal

28:53

There's there's not a conviction because they were innocent and they were falsely accused They've used the military system the charging process to gain an upper hand in You know divorce and custody proceedings so I can tell you just in the last two years

29:06

I've represented five or six Christian men who were falsely accused of Horrific things by a spouse

29:14

Wow who was having an affair like that's not that sounds hyperbole people don't believe it That's the kind of thing we see because the military has become so politically correct

29:22

That we have allowed this to seep in and then we've divorced this from Accountability and I don't want to put

29:29

Brad on the spot in saying this but one of the things I have been seeing a lot more of is a concern that the

29:37

Most effective thing we're doing when we're training leaders in the military Over the last four years in particular is not in leadership, but in risk mitigation

29:46

The problem is too many leaders are prioritizing Their own career as what they're trying to really mitigate the risk of losing and that's a huge huge problem

29:57

So, you know, I am I'm incredibly excited about some of the things we're seeing and the efforts that change that I see coming forward

30:04

But there's a lot of work to be done. Yeah Man, thank you for that. I appreciate that.

30:09

Um, so just real real briefly. I'll ask you Davis There's people that are watching that may not actually know

30:16

Brad's case. Could you just give us like a quick? One or two minutes synopsis of what happened and and so people are kind of brought to speed yeah, so at the best way to understand it is just to understand the position that that Brad was in as Leading the buds training

30:35

So leading the schoolhouse where SEAL training was occurring and and one of the things that was happening was a concern that Captain Geary was aware of of the use of performance enhancing drugs

30:48

So steroids so there were some candidates who were willing to engage in steroid use to try to gain an advantage and try to get through the rigors of the program

30:58

The problem is when you're doing that and these are illegal substances You're getting dangerous substances that you have no guarantee what they are, right?

31:06

So I mean these are these are things coming in from Pakistan who knows what they are Who knows what they're tainted with an extremely dangerous foolish thing to do

31:14

Even if it matters to you to get through this training so much. So one of the things that happened was

31:21

Captain Geary was aware of this trying to put a stop to it trying to deal with it got very bad legal advice

31:27

From the Navy legal command who told him things like he couldn't search vehicles Even though they knew that's where steroids were being hidden And where things were being kept because that was the only place the candidates could hide them so what you have in this situation is a

31:43

Young man who tragically was all the evidence points to the fact that he was relying on steroids to achieve success to get through hell week in the training program and All of the evidence points including what was found in his vehicle

31:59

Points to the fact that his use of that is uncontrolled use of that over time Resulted in his death and the

32:07

Navy attempted to avoid Blaming the victim and this is the language that was used by Navy leadership

32:14

We're not gonna blame the victim. And so what they did is look for a scapegoat. So they tried to blame Brad and the chief medical officer for the death of this seal candidate after hell week when all of the evidence scientific evidence medical evidence and otherwise points to The use of performance -enhancing drugs as the as the contributing factor to his death.

32:35

Yeah. Well, thank you brother. And again praise Lord We don't worry about that anymore but so that brings me that'll bring me into the other half of this conversation and You know if you if you guys haven't been listening or following us, you know, we started with stand with warriors and 21 fall of 21 and I mean just it's been incredible Just to watch

32:59

God work all that bring it all together how we did, you know What it was literally just I think of that day.

33:05

We had about 30 Active seals, they're just brothers Christians that were just trying to be faithful and do the right thing and and you know honor their

33:17

Savior and You know also honor their Constitution and the oath that they took and so, you know, we we met with them

33:25

We're like, yeah, we have we have no choice but to help these guys and so just to see they go from that, you know, and then and then obviously, you know with the situation the

33:33

Brad and then You know we Davis and I have talked a lot where we're like this is this is much bigger than just you know the the

33:42

Vax like this is much bigger like there's something else going on and So to see where we're at now, you know, obviously with Trump getting elected

33:52

You know, we have at least four years to maybe get some stuff done praise God, you know, it's like a

33:58

Breath of fresh air. Like I said earlier like winning feels good And so I'm just curious what you guys think

34:07

I'm gonna ask both of you this but just seeing the Corruption you've both seen on and the different levels, you know, you both talked about reform

34:19

Like do you kind of feel like maybe? You're I mean boss the

34:24

Brad ask you this first Do you kind of feel like maybe you're like the tip of the spear maybe at to some degree where it's like We can take this case the situation we've now been given an opportunity

34:36

To fix this like you said the reform things Do you I wonder if you kind of feel like that or am I just making that up?

34:42

I? think You know, I'm trying to think out of yeah But but I think we're at a very unique time and place

34:51

Unlike we've seen at least in the entire almost 30 years. I've been serving in the military where There's a lot of momentum for change and it's change

35:00

I think in the right direction It's not like a universal endorsement of everything that's going on necessarily but at the same time

35:08

I'm very encouraged by what I'm seeing and everyone I talked to at those deckplate levels at those at those troop levels they're just frothing at the mouth for the opportunity to singularly focus on lethality as a military and on back to back to the

35:23

Reaganism of Peace through strength and and being a force for good across the globe

35:29

The you know the 20th and 21st century have seen global peace and prosperity Unlike ever before in the history of the world that we know it and that is largely because America came out of World War two as this dominant force for good the light on the shining light on a hill and I feel like this is a return to that and That is exciting a lot of people that I talked to and they're just looking forward to what these four years will bring

35:54

As officers, you know, we swear oath to the Constitution That's deliberate. It's deliberate that we do not swear an oath as officers to an institution or to a person

36:06

We oath we swear oath to the Constitution and we serve the office of the president States Everyone I know is very excited about this commander -in -chief

36:13

And then his nomination the confirmation of Secretary Hegseth and where that's gonna take military And I think there's a lot of goodness to come for America and as goes

36:22

America so goes the world. Amen. Amen Davis What are your thoughts on that question? Yeah, so I have to put it into Context and the context is, you know,

36:31

I I joined the Air Force as a jag You know Not a not a trigger -puller

36:38

But I did it because 9 -11 happened when I was in law school and and I really felt that was you know

36:45

That was the time this is this is what I had. This is the gift that God had given me to bring Into the war fight.

36:52

So I I mean I joined to deploy I joined to You know protect our nation during that time frame and the difficult thing for me

37:00

And I know Brad can relate to this but my my entire career was spent post 9 -11

37:06

So understand that last time I was on duty under orders wearing a uniform I was at the

37:13

Air Force Jag school as a reservist when the disastrous withdrawal from Afghanistan happened

37:18

Hmm, so so understand I mean I deployed I all I did was support you know the efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan throughout my career and To see like it it, you know

37:30

I watched the statue of Sodom fall in Baghdad at the at the Jag school in my

37:35

Jag training, right? I literally watched that golden statue fall over and then I'm at the Jag school again Watching this disaster caused by you know, lack of clear leadership weak leadership and just not understanding

37:49

Anything about what what it's like to actually be in that combat situation So I say that that's kind of how

37:55

I frame my my military career and I was I was forced out of the military

38:00

I was in non -compliance my religious accommodations to the kovat vaccine personally were denied

38:06

I was not in compliance and I was told I had violated a lawful order I was waiting to get kicked out six months shy of retirement and It took an injunction in federal court to get me to to that 20 -year retirement

38:19

So everything I say about what's happening now is sort of couched in those. Yeah, those two frameworks So for me, you know, what what

38:26

I am excited about was secretary Hagseth is is two pieces one This is a godly man

38:33

Who was in a good church who has a good pastor has good people around him or discipling him and have been

38:39

Over the last three years it's just so just to have a fellow brother in Christ not not perfect like not none of us are and And yet he is doing everything he can to serve

38:50

God and honor God through what he's doing number one But number two, he is a war fighter He was not a you know a paper pusher like I was in the

38:57

Air Force He was actually a war fighter who's been in combat who's led troops in combat who understands what that's like And that's what we really need in the military

39:07

So just the the emphasis on the war fighter and understanding Returning to a place where the

39:14

Secretary of Defense understands what it's like to eat MREs to understands what it's like to sleep in a tent to understand what it's like to clean a weapon because it's filled with sand like those little things of what that is like are so important to Because we're so far removed from that as a military.

39:32

So I hope we get I hope we cut the fat I hope we get very lean and mean and we focus on Getting the best tools possible into the hands of our war fighters.

39:42

That's what we need to do That's what I'm excited about. That's what I see coming. And I think that intent has been made very very clear

39:50

Yeah, amen to that and we got we actually have a stand with warriors board meeting next

39:55

Monday. So we're excited about You know what the what the future may bring with that, but yeah, so I talked about this

40:04

Just briefly a couple weeks ago, we kind of just did it in passing at the end but you know,

40:10

I was watching the Trump's inauguration and You know, I made I just put on the

40:15

TV. We were just watching all throughout the day and you know one of my kids to be able to To watch and you know see history and learn some stuff and and I you know,

40:25

I'll be 44 next week I've never I don't ever remember Watching an inauguration speech being so fired up.

40:32

It was just one thing after another like oh my goodness this is crazy and amazing and and I like winning and so I got to I Think I texted both of you.

40:44

I got to the department of play the part here were Trump vindicates our friends both of you includes both of you, but I I Was screaming

40:56

I was so excited. I'm gonna go ahead and play this real quick So, let me try it again.

41:05

I wasn't didn't have the volume up This week

41:10

I will reinstate any service members who were unjustly expelled from our military for objecting to the kovat vaccine mandate with full back pain and I will sign an order to stop our warriors from being subjected to radical political

41:38

Theories and social experiments while on duty it's going to end immediately Our armed forces will be freed to focus on their sole mission defeating

41:55

America's enemies I'll just stop it there.

42:21

Oh Man, I I literally was like let's go like punching the walls like I need a wall to run through right now

42:28

I was so so pumped. So before I talk anymore, I want to I'll Davis you're on the screen right now So I'll just get your your how you were feeling when you saw that and then

42:36

I'll have Brad Brad and speak as well Yeah, I'll just I mean I'll focus on the the kovat piece because because that's how we met right

42:44

Yeah, so I'll just focus on that I mean what was so encouraging to me is the fact that that the president was willing to say unjust

42:53

Right was willing to acknowledge that what happened to so many people what was threatened to so many people

43:01

Was an injustice and it and it really was and there's a lot of reasons why we've talked about that but it was you know an intentional effort to ignore the constitutional rights and the religious freedoms of service members and then this whole idea of Forcing an experimental product on service members was it was driven by something other than Justice it was driven by something other than an intent to take care of our service members

43:26

So, you know we went from being in a room with Individuals who were willing Navy SEALs who were willing to be court -martials and we're told they were gonna be thrown in the brig

43:36

And then who went through I mean a lot of those guys that that we worked with that are our friends

43:41

Went through those guys that stayed in went through two years of hell I mean there were suicides because of the way they were being treated for two years and to hear the president say unjust was

43:55

It's hard to put into words how important that was and what it means to so many people who?

44:01

Simply wanted to honor God and do the right thing During an extremely difficult and challenging time.

44:08

Yeah, and I mean to be clear again Obviously Davis you were representing a lot of guys, but you were going through it yourself.

44:13

It wasn't like you were that's right It wasn't like this was in a vacuum. You were going through the same process as these guys while defending them

44:21

That's right. I mean six months shy of retirement It took a federal judge saying no to the

44:27

Air Force saying it is apparent facially what you're doing Is it illegal to to stop the

44:32

Air Force from kicking me out without even a BOI? The Air Force was kicking reservists out no matter how much time you had in without even any due process

44:40

You know during this the Coast Guard was doing the same thing. So yeah, just just to hear that that That language of unjust was incredibly powerful and just you know, grateful to God for that moment

44:52

Yeah, well, I'm and I'm gonna I'll come back in a second because I want to talk about what this means Moving forward so Brad Brad, what were you thinking when when you watch

45:01

I think you text me that you were You were choking up a little bit a little bit I don't cry often but but there may have been a maybe a couple two tears of joy more

45:11

It was just such vindication for so many of my teammates and people don't even know who suffered through that You know it like you just alluded to it.

45:20

It's interesting Suicide is a very passionate Part of my life and encountering it and helping that that that just tragedy across the

45:31

Department of Defense with our active duty and our veterans and They we got a brief about a year ago by our force suicide prevention lead who said the majority of our

45:42

Suicidal ideations in this in the teams at least the naval special warfare come from those under investigation and or leaving the

45:50

Navy Whether you're guilt or innocent doesn't matter guilty or innocent doesn't matter

45:55

The simple fact of being under an investigation creates such isolation and emotional damage that that increases the number of society

46:04

Asians as I'm listening to her the stats and she started listening all the Psychology behind the why there I was like, oh that's interesting.

46:09

I fit into both those categories and I can absolutely Relate to those feelings after spending two plus decades in a community that that values you based upon your contributions to the team

46:21

Over time that can warp into your own where you find yourself worth and when all of a sudden that very community whether it's

46:27

NSW or the Navy Due to kovat or anything else starting to sideline you and and and not just that the thing that bothered me, too

46:35

Was the bullying I mean it was coercive, you know people even using our faith against us in many ways

46:42

Like oh, you just love your neighbor. So you clearly don't love your neighbor if you're not willing to get this vaccine That's what

46:48

I think to be honest when the when the vaccine first popped and it was it was Optional my first my first response was like yay science.

46:57

Like this is fantastic. Go America we came up with something new and This is this is exciting and this is a reason to celebrate and almost immediately you started hearing these coercive narratives

47:08

That's what kind of got the hair on the back of my neck standing up like well This is in fact what you're saying. It is you shouldn't need to coerce us.

47:14

You shouldn't need to emotionally bully people And like I talked about on the Sean Ryan show we were seeing real -time

47:22

Being forced to train through the pandemic that there really wasn't much to be afraid of as long as you had

47:29

You know a young healthy population. We now know that all these comorbidities were likely causing the fatalities

47:35

But but generally for healthy young Americans, there wasn't much to worry about So we're seeing that in real time while the narrative was kind of pressing us that hey, this is the greatest national security risk

47:46

We've ever faced and and you know, all the soft branches that were training through Cove and we're looking around like I don't think so So to see that narrative being used to coerce was just it was man.

47:59

It was crippling It was crippling and to see people's lives and decades of invested time into serving our nation in the

48:05

Constitution Just being thrown away like trash Because they stood up for a principle value that they believed in was really

48:13

Man it was it was just soul -crushing to so many people So when when the president said that in the year, yes

48:20

Davis, like you said when he said this was unjust He was 100 % accurate and it is vindication for so many.

48:26

It doesn't repair the damage done. Unfortunately Yeah, our part in these things. There's no there's no real justice

48:32

And I don't know if you could ever really get true justice this side of heaven But at least there's victory at least there's vindication and and and people can take solace in that Yeah, amen, brother.

48:44

Okay, so so Davis just moving forward then, you know, obviously in many ways

48:50

The last four years have just kind of been a training exercise. I think first day with the

48:55

Warriors So we got a lot a lot of work ahead of us here Yes, you do. I should say I'm I'm just standing by cheering.

49:02

I'm a cheerleader, but and sign things but so, you know, I think we have guys that have kind of been all all over the board and the spectrum of Effects of this right?

49:14

So we got guys that somebody was just in here earlier, you know I don't know if I could say his name, but he was just in here said hi He was one of the original dudes he got out was in Seals be

49:23

Biden, you know, we got guys that Got out had to pay back their Signing bonuses, you know,

49:30

I know there's a whole nother court case there We got guys that are still in that either they were either they were told either

49:38

Sign an extension or we're rerating you which means they would have got sent to a ship and they're like, all right

49:43

I'll sign the extension, you know So the guy guys all over the place and when Trump said that, you know I had guys texting me like are we really gonna get back pay or you know, like asking questions like I don't know.

49:53

We'll find Let's ask Davis You know, so there's a lot of questions a lot of work to do

49:59

So let me I'll just let you run that like what do you think? What do you think the forecast is now for for these guys and just moving forward in general

50:08

Yeah, so I think we have to define categories real quickly and just kind of explain that and then it'll

50:13

I think help speak to What I think relief looks like moving forward. So when we look at the guys impacted by kovat

50:19

There's this number that's talked about a lot of eighty six hundred people. Those were the people that were

50:26

Involuntarily discharged specifically because they did not get the kovat a kovat vaccine

50:32

So that's the group of people that we were trying to help at the beginning and you know

50:37

There were at one point two hundred and fifty thousand when you look at all the service components active guard and reserve

50:44

There were two hundred and fifty thousand people who were not Vaccinated once the deadline hit so that eighty six hundred were the people that none of us could save could react fast enough to save We were able to slow that number down.

50:56

So but there's that number Those are the people if they want to return to service. It looks like they're going to have a pretty really clear path

51:04

They're easy to identify the Marine Corps has already sent out an email And text messages to a bunch of not a bunch but several of my clients people that were kicked out

51:14

We've gotten we've already helped a couple people get honorable discharges already That had less than honorable discharges as a result of that So I think the path for those folks who want the opportunity to go back in and serve again when we talk about that 8600

51:27

I think that's pretty clear The unanswered question is the other two categories.

51:32

So there are Approximately 90 95 thousand people who were forced out of the military because of what happened during kovat

51:41

That's a number that is You know larger than I think most people want to recognize but the reality is there's 95 ,000

51:48

So those are individuals who? Wanted to reenlist and continue serving who could not

51:54

I've got clients with like 15 16 years in that reached the end of their Contract and they were not allowed to reenlist unless they got the vaccine.

52:01

So they left there are others that retired early there were others who simply took it as an opportunity to retire medically and and get out and So there are at least the best number

52:14

I can come up with is 95 ,000 who fall into that category of their discharge paperwork doesn't necessarily reflect the fact that they were kicked out of overcoat over kovat

52:23

But the reason they were not allowed to continue to serve is because they were unvaccinated Those are the first two categories.

52:30

The third category is all of those people and you know Some of them I'm talking about who stayed in and their career was negatively impacted

52:38

So they received, you know a reprimand a letter of censure. They were not allowed to be promoted

52:44

They were removed fired from command positions over these things So when we look at relief the first category,

52:52

I think is fairly straightforward I think that the relief is going to be easy for them the second category

52:57

Trump addressed in the executive order if you look at the executive order he says those people will have that that left because of kovat will have the opportunity to make an

53:08

Affirmation to provide a statement and request the opportunity to come back in and serve

53:13

The final category the active -duty folks that had their career damaged by this That's gonna be that I think the hardest category and where it's gonna take a long time to work through that Because what does it look like, you know, and and Brad can speak to this but you know if you're in the zone to take a command position a leadership position and you've screened for command and Two years go by and you're not you're not put in that position your career.

53:39

You've been sidelined your career is is Off -track and and it's really really hard to make that up and the problem is, you know

53:47

Thousands and thousands of really good people were not able to move our military in the direction

53:53

It should be so that's where the work is gonna come in is it's dealing with those people that are harder to identify

53:59

But still need a lot of help. Yeah. Yeah, I mean we we know a guy one of my closest friends through all this who was about to screen for green team and was a shoe and and Yes, I've stuck on the shelf for two years, you know and now he's just like he's one of the guys

54:15

I had to extend his contract and when that's up he's out, you know, and so like people don't think about how you know, this affects our

54:23

Military readiness, you know and and how we're you know, losing some of our best warriors because of this junk

54:30

So, I mean, I know we know guys too that were on in Dev Guru and just sat there for two years

54:36

You know twiddling their thumbs So One thing that was really cool that Trump also said and this

54:47

I feel like it's kind of got maybe lost in some of the vaccination talk but if you remember

54:52

Davis when we When we met with those guys Everyone in that room had just gone through all the

54:58

DEI junk you remember So here we're meeting about the vac stuff and then they're like we just went through all this and they said it was a joke

55:05

You know, they just signed something with her and I remember sitting there thinking like are you serious? Like I couldn't believe you know, and so I love the fact that Trump also was like no more of that Was that's one thing we've talked about with stainless warriors, too

55:18

Is like fighting some of that, you know and now for the next four years Lord willing we don't have to but that was something we were prepared to do was

55:26

Defend guys that might be, you know facing some trouble for not complying with all that nonsense Can I give some examples please?

55:35

I will give too many but I mean this is I have two two people I can think of right now active -duty

55:41

Service members who are I would call some of just the best the most apparent victims of DEI one posted a meme

55:51

That was labeled extremist and as a result it was turned over by the military to the

55:57

FBI The FBI came and visited this 20 year old kid Who just posted a meme didn't even fully understand what it meant and he and the

56:07

FBI picked him up of another Who made a comment about women serving in combat and how based on his

56:14

Christian beliefs? He did not believe that that was appropriate. He was reported as an extremist and had to sit down with the

56:22

FBI That's just to that doesn't even deal with the the Idaho case that Stand with warriors is involved in that's just resulted in a filing in federal court

56:31

Where a gentleman out there was fired because of his religious beliefs his belief in traditional marriage and a biblical view of human sexuality got him fired from a command position and that case is

56:43

Ongoing that's been filed in federal court in Idaho So, I mean those are just three examples of the kind of a fight that's there and the problem is

56:54

Again so many people were kicked out Labeled extremists and kicked out of the military for for things that you can't believe unless you put in the context of other things

57:04

We've seen going in in society unless you understand the spiritual battle that's happening You you can't put you can't frame it properly because it is amazing what's happened to our military.

57:16

So absolutely Recruiting was down retention was down. And now you have the president commenting on DEI and Hegseth moving forward on that what what people outside of the military don't understand is we

57:31

Felt I certainly did. I mean Brad was in the special operations community So it was better but in just you know, the main

57:39

Air Force I didn't feel comfortable saying I mean I didn't feel comfortable saying things like that the the primary role of the

57:47

Air Force is to break things and kill people That's what I was taught in officer training That's our job right our job is to do that and I didn't feel comfortable saying things like that anymore

57:57

Even in the at the Jag schoolhouse because of the way that might be perceived That's how rotten the culture was when you look at so many units

58:07

Especially when you're moved from the front lines and you're removed from the special operations community, man

58:13

Well Brad, I haven't I haven't had this conversation with you and I know you're still on so I don't want to get you in Trouble, but is there anything you'd like to any comments along that?

58:24

Conversation you might have or thoughts Yeah, I'm glad you said that too because it occurred to me a minute ago

58:29

I never started this off with I am still active duty and putting I say I personal view alone.

58:35

That should be I mean everyone should assume that at this point But I feel like I should get a shirt that says that then you don't have to say it

58:41

I know my forehead Yeah, you know it I think

58:46

I think Davis is right we were somewhat insulated from that within the SOCOM enterprise At least from my personal experience.

58:53

We were because we still very much focused on lethality but there were definitely a lot of things that made us start scratching our heads and you started talking about extremism and I Mean secretary hexes book talks about how he was labeled an extremist and pulled off a detail because of a tattoo

59:11

That's right, and there this narrative started taking form that there was this accusation that you know

59:17

There's a problem in the ranks of military of racial extremism, and I'm looking around my god

59:24

I don't think so um and we'd have meetings and talk with our teammates and and of course You ask anyone in the service if you ever experienced racism.

59:32

Yeah, generally speaking people gonna say yes I had a moment or two through my life because I ran into a horrible human being

59:37

But none of us were talking about seeing anything systemic and so we're scratching our heads as this was getting forced down everyone's throats

59:46

I Mean generally speaking at every command. I served at was an incredible atmosphere

59:53

Positive culture where everyone is unified in one goal Becoming more lethal and serving our nation and these things were a distraction when all of a sudden you start wondering

01:00:03

Well, is there a problem and maybe I didn't see it And so you're trying to have these conversations and Forced conversations and forced training and we're all looking around like this seems like a waste of time

01:00:14

We used to say it buds the the cold Pacific Ocean does not discriminate Based on what you look like your background your religion or whatever

01:00:22

She is cold to everybody And I used to joke with the candidates to you may have been raised a racist

01:00:28

But the Pacific Ocean is to make you so cold that you're gonna want to hug the person next to you no matter what they

01:00:33

Look like because you're gonna want to share that body And everyone would giggle and look uncomfortable and we'd tell him go hit the surf and a few weeks later

01:00:41

I'd ask him did it work, you know, are you hugging anyone you can for body warmth and they all nodded we said great

01:00:46

The ocean doesn't discriminate neither Do we if you are standard if you if you if you put out and you show yourself to be a reliable teammate?

01:00:56

Focused on our mission then that's really all that matters. Well, we shouldn't need to address intersectionality

01:01:02

We shouldn't need to address where you came from Other than on a human level, obviously, we should care as leaders and seek people's backgrounds to understand and care for them

01:01:10

They're entrusted to our care and our authorities, but but as an organization as a as a as an entity

01:01:17

Amen, we're unified in our focus toward the mission and as long as you're contributing there I don't care what religion you you prescribe to I don't care what your skin color looks like I don't care whether you're male or female.

01:01:28

Let's go We're on we're on the same team and we're moving on the road So yeah, thank you.

01:01:34

I appreciate that. Um, yeah, cuz I'm just thinking timeline wise those guys would have gone through all that probably

01:01:42

Spring or summer of 21. So you were at buds then So did you and again?

01:01:48

I know if you can't say answer anything Don't just tell me but I mean were they trying to forcing that stuff into buds or you think maybe that was stuff?

01:01:55

They were trying to force an after -the -fact after they made it through training tough to say

01:02:01

I Think naval special were held the line in a lot of ways, but you could see it creeping in in subtle ways you could see it creeping in you could feel the pressure to start buckling and Thankfully, I've got stories.

01:02:16

I'll probably be able to tell more once But but I know leaders that are still in our formation that held the line

01:02:22

One of them was incredibly inspirational he's now an admiral He was my Commodore at one point and he held the line on someone who was trying to pressure him

01:02:31

The institution was trying to pressure him to to bend a rule to accommodate a

01:02:37

Situation that was very DEI focused that that we wouldn't have done. Otherwise and he basically said hey

01:02:44

I'm not doing it and this may cost me my career But but we stand on principles and we don't bend our standard for anyone because if we bend it for someone we have to bend

01:02:51

It for everybody. Yeah that we dilute the value of the seal and SWCC brands and I'm not gonna do that And I'm in a position where it's my authority to say no and he did it was incredibly inspirational

01:03:01

So we've had people in there that have held the line for the most part which is refreshing It was refreshing to be able to work with people like that and inspiring.

01:03:08

Yeah, awesome Thank you, man. Well, we're just about out of time here So we'll any closing thoughts either of you have and then we'll just wrap the show up and we are gonna have an after show

01:03:18

For everyone that's all access. We'll bring these guys back on for a few minutes But Davis Brad in closing thoughts

01:03:27

And I just appreciate you guys and and God is good. He's sovereign. He never leaves his throne.

01:03:32

Yeah you know what man means for evil God uses for good and I that over the last three years and so However, this goes we each have total trust and faith in him and in his goodness

01:03:44

I was crazy one of the worship songs that resonated with us over this last year was defender

01:03:49

I think Rita's father sings So good and and there's just one line where she speaks in that in that in that song where it says your way is is so Much better.

01:03:58

I may be misquoting it, but it's something about that your ways is so much better than mine And I was singing it the other day and it occurred to me

01:04:06

Oh, man, we're in the backside of this season of suffering. And yes, Lord your way is so much better Look where it's taken us.

01:04:11

Look what it taught us look words. Look at this next season to come But what I realized was so many times when it even didn't make sense to say that We were still singing it and that wasn't an appeal.

01:04:21

It was a declaration. So We're just so thankful that that God is sovereign and we can trust in him to be good and to be just and his way

01:04:30

Is better even when it doesn't make sense? We're riding a great wave right now where I feel like there's a somewhat of a revival coming across the nation

01:04:38

That won't always be the case. Yeah, but God he's got us in his hands. So just thankful to be a part of his plan

01:04:44

Well, I appreciate that I'll turn over here Brad here I mean Davis in a second sir, that's my timer um,

01:04:50

I mean just knowing you Brad, I mean you I mean the amount of pain and suffering that you've seen, you know, the deaths you've seen close friends dying like is

01:05:01

I don't know that I've ever known anybody that's seen as much as you to be honest and I Mean just it's encouraging to sit here and hear you say that, you know with this trial

01:05:12

You've gone through just with the trials. You've gone through the last 30 years is pretty remarkable and encouraging. So thank you for that Davis closing thoughts

01:05:22

Yeah, I think I would say that throughout all of this what God has continued to teach me is that it is

01:05:30

There is no substitute for your personal relationship with Christ, but your engagement in a local church and nurturing

01:05:39

Friendships and community in Christ because none of none of this not Brad's story not anything that's happened comes from anything other than that and you know, you and I didn't even know each other

01:05:50

Luke and you know But it was a friendship I formed with another Christian brother and attorney and it was it was an instant

01:05:58

You know Knowing very quickly for men that didn't know each other and all of us together to come together in a room to pray and just know

01:06:05

Okay, God did this Now we need to just follow on in God's will and and try to do what it is

01:06:12

He's asking us to do so my encouragement to anyone out there Military outside the military or otherwise is don't neglect that that walk with Christ Don't neglect your local church and build community with Christian brothers and sisters so that when things happen that that are not

01:06:28

Expected that create a crisis you have that You know take care of yourself and your family first But build those relationships because it's that's what it takes and that's how

01:06:38

God intended us to live Amen, and that that attorneys name is Bradley Pierce Who was one of the founders of heritage defense who we happen to partner with so if you homeschool

01:06:50

Please go to heritage friends that Oregon And sign up it's really really not expensive at all and make sure you're protected against any three agent or three -letter agencies

01:07:00

And you can put apology in the coupon code and get your first month free Bradley's a busy man

01:07:05

He was in North Dakota yesterday for one of our bills Got a hearing yesterday in North Dakota. We'll be back out there shortly to have a rally when it goes to the floor, but You know it's fun.

01:07:16

I'll just it's all in here, so it's funny. You know Dave was talking about when you met it was I Didn't I didn't even know you were gonna be there

01:07:24

I didn't I hadn't like I had no idea and so a typical apology of fashion we're like late to the meeting and It's because it was a lot further than we thought thought it was but uh

01:07:35

We walk in and here's Davis like just roll like rockin and rollin like he's got the board

01:07:40

And he's doing all and we're like who is this guy I had no idea like man But dude it was awesome because you just were like on it

01:07:46

You'd like we're just taking charge, and and we ended up just being there just to encourage and stuff But yeah, that was that was how

01:07:53

I met Davis so Lastly you can go to shop that apology of studios and Get some of these tracks some of this pre -sip coffee some of this swag

01:08:05

We got some sweet shirts and stuff and we of course appreciate your support all access sirs

01:08:11

We love you guys appreciate you and can't do this without you So we'll go ahead

01:08:17

I don't I'm not even I don't know what the next few months are gonna be crazy with all of our bills and stuff going

01:08:22

On so I don't even know what we're doing next week. There is a show We've been planning for a while if we can get everyone here at the same time so we might do that next week, but Thank you again for everyone

01:08:33

Brad Davis. Thank you brothers and again all accessors will be We'll be at the after show here in a few minutes