THE DOCTRINES OF GRACE: (8 of 12) PERSONAL TESTIMONIES

TWELVE 5 CHURCH

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THE DOCTRINES OF GRACE: (9 of 12) RAMIFICATIONS ON PREACHING & EVANGELISM

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I'm excited for tonight. I think this is an important element of what we've been doing.

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We've been walking through some pretty deep, very rich, very difficult at times doctrines.

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When we talk about the doctrines of grace, we are dealing with something that goes against the grain of man's natural thought, and it goes against the grain of a lot of our religiosity and a lot of our upbringings theologically.

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That makes it hard, right? Has anybody had a tough time walking through it? Be honest. Yes. I get it.

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I totally get it. On week eight, lesson eight, is not really a lesson.

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Week eight is a time for us to stop for a moment and go, okay, we've talked about all the points of this doctrine, and a lot of you have come to me and been like,

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I get it, I see it, it's obvious in scripture, the scripture's clear, man, this is most certainly a truth from God's word, why do

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I need to know it? How does it apply? We've actually asked a few people to come and give brief testimony, maybe 10, 12 minutes of testimony about how these particular doctrines have affected their life in an applicable way.

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I pray that this would be helpful for you because as we get head knowledge, we're desiring that that knowledge of God would make its way into our hearts and prepare us to live holy lives and to honor the

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Lord with our lives, amen? Amen. Well, I'm excited for tonight here, in just one second,

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I'm gonna actually ask Chase to start us off, but let me start, let me open us up with prayer.

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Dear Heavenly Father, Lord, we thank you for your good grace. We thank you for your mercy and kindness. We thank you for bringing us back together tonight.

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Lord, I pray that you are honored in testimonies. Brothers and sisters, speaking about you, speaking about your truth, and speaking about how your truth affects and impacts their life in very tangible, very practical ways.

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We thank you for your grace in that. Lord, I pray that you would help us to be edified, encouraged, and challenged through tonight.

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May it all bring glory to your name and that you would be exalted in our hearts.

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We thank you in Christ's name, amen. Well, Chase, if you wouldn't mind make your way up here, I think everybody knows

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Mr. Magnum P .I. I am jealous.

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Well, I'm not much of a public speaker, so I brought my iPad up here and took some notes. But, so whenever we start off,

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I grew up in more of your typical, your Southern Baptist church, small, really small, piano, hymns, arguing over carpet color, all the fun stuff.

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And I just want to start out with this verse that struck me to my heart. It's Romans 2 .4.

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It says, or do you despise the riches of His kindness, restraint, and patience, not recognizing that it's

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God's kindness is intended to lead you to repentance. And I remember reading that for the first time whenever I first started hearing about Reformed theology and thinking to myself, how can this verse be describing the

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God that Reformed theology talks about? And I knew, after I began to study and God revealed it to me through His heart,

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I realized that I didn't fully understand the kindness of God within that verse.

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And through His, these doctrines of grace that we learn about. And I know early on,

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I questioned the balance in between the sovereignty of God and man's will to come to Him.

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And I really struggled with trying to see God as, within these doctrines, as the

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God who ordains all things, but also does not ordain evil, and He is not the author of evil.

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And that was something that was really hard for me to wrap my head around. And eventually,

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I just came to a point after studying deeper into the Reformed tradition that I could see a way to wrap around the sovereignty of God in a bubble around the free will of man, but I could in no way see a way for man to dictate the will of God.

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And that was the point where my theology started to shift, and I started to see the big picture of who

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God is in His sovereignty and how He works all things for the good of those who love Him. And I'm wanting to start now with just with what each point of the doctrines of grace, what it's taught me.

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The first one, total inability or total depravity, and it really helped me understand the cost of the fall, because I realized reading the third chapter of Genesis and thinking, what does eating a fruit have to do with man's being sinful?

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And I saw that it was the rebellion of man against God, and because of that, we have plummeted into the depths of sin, and we are spiritually dead, and we cannot come to Christ without that.

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It showed me the nature of my own flesh to where when I look in myself, I don't see a man who is able to choose to do right today, choose to do wrong.

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My natural default is to not seek God. It is I am spiritually dead, and without the grace of God, there is nothing that I could do to come to Him.

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It also showed me the sacrifice on the cross and the love that was shown within that sacrifice.

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Next, with unconditional election, something I always struggled with was trying to look back and remember the moment of my salvation, like when did

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I say the prayer, or what did I do to accept Jesus into my heart? And unconditional election taught me that when

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God from eternity past looked at me in the future and said, there is absolutely nothing that He is going to do to choose me,

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He is not capable of that. Whenever He said, there is nothing that He does, I am choosing Him because of my own glory and my own goodness out of His own gracious heart, that is the whole reason

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I can stand here before you all and give you a testimony of the grace that God has shown me. It has helped me see a

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God -centered view of salvation, not where I can come to God and say, can you help me, and we kind of work together and lap arms, but in a way where I am a man who fell to the bottom of the well, and I cannot get out because I am dead.

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And God came in His sovereignty and His love and His grace and pulled me out and brought me into Himself. On to irresistible grace, which is probably my favorite one of these doctrines.

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And I have a quote here I want to read by my favorite theologian, Augustine of Hippo, and it says,

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Thou hast made us for Thyself, O Lord, and our heart is restless until it finds its rest in Thee.

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And that is a beautiful picture of what irresistible grace is. And I kind of wrote my own quote here, is

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His grace is irresistible because the human heart longs for fulfillment. And the grace of God is the only thing that can fulfill that desire, because that is what

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He created our hearts for, was to seek Him and to know Him. We fully belong to Him, and that is why

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His grace is so overwhelming, because it is that missing piece of the puzzle. And perseverance of the saints, and this is something

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I have always grown up hearing, once saved, always saved, and I have always struggled with that, because it made it seem like I can just go on and do whatever

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I want with my life and not live for Christ. And within the doctrines of perseverance of the saints,

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I realized that whenever I come to the table, whenever I come to Christ, the only reason

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I am able to consistently come after Him and to seek Him is because of His own righteousness.

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And He has clothed me in that own righteousness through His death on the cross.

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And whenever God sees, whenever He was on that cross,

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He took on the full punishment of my sins. So whenever God sees me, He sees the righteousness of Christ.

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Everything that I could have done, past, present, future, is bought with a price, and that price was paid in full.

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And this leads me on to some lessons I have learned personally through this. And I know

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I have struggled a lot with, sometimes I just want to argue all the time, and I just want to, and that is typical among us

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Reformed people. And I hate that whenever people think of Reformed theologians, the stereotypical guy is usually a guy in a corner with a big beard, his legs crossed, smoking a cigar, yelling at people.

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And that is unfortunate, because this is what

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Paul says the fruit of the Spirit is. The fruit of the Spirit is love and joy and peace and patience and kindness and goodness and faithfulness, gentleness and self -control.

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He says the law is not against such these things. This is where these doctrines that we learn, and whenever we seek

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Christ and learning more about Him, because these doctrines are what separates the

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God that our own heart fashions against the triune God of the Scriptures. It's also a theology of humility.

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We can't, sometimes I feel like we can say our theology, the more we know, the closer we are to God, or the more we know about God defines us as a

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Christian. And now if we know these doctrines, we know that they humble us.

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We see our lack of worth, and that's what leads us to repentance.

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It also teaches us to love our brothers beyond our own tradition, that we can have communion with them, because they were bought with the same price that we were.

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And it doesn't matter what, there are core essential doctrines we have to believe in, but while we are still in the sinful flesh, we are not going to be able to fully comprehend the infinite

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God. And lastly,

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I just want to share a story of two people that's been really influential in my life, working through some of these things, and that's the story of George Whitfield and John Wesley.

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And I don't know if y 'all know anything about these guys. They were involved in the early Methodist movement during the

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Great Awakening, and George Whitfield was a staunch Calvinist, and John Wesley was a very strong Arminian.

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Those two really butt heads normally, but these doctrines, I believe, if we approach them with humility and see them for what they truly are, they will allow us to have relationships like this right here.

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A woman approached John Wesley at one point and said, ma 'am, do you think that we will see

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George Whitfield in heaven? And he replied, he said, no ma 'am. And she kind of shook her head and put it down, and she was like,

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I figured that's what you would say. But in response, he said, with intense earnestness, he said, do not misunderstand me, ma 'am,

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George Whitfield was so bright a star in the firmament of God's glory and was standing so near to the throne that no one like me, who

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I am less than the least, will ever catch a glimpse of him. And we hear that, and we see the respect that people have beyond the lines of tradition, because there is unity in Christ.

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And on the latter, out of all the people that preached at George Whitfield's funeral, he requested his

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Methodist friend, John Wesley. I think that is a beautiful picture of unity, and that's the humility that these doctrines lead us to.

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And that's really struck my heart, and it's a beautiful picture to see that Christ and his church is one.

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Man, that's good. It makes you realize that as we grow in these doctrines and as we mature, man, it just reminds us that these doctrines are driving us to be more like Christ, driving us to be more like Christ and loving and gracious and merciful.

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So, Chase, thank you for that reminder. Thank you for that. Well, the next person I've asked to come up here, a lot of you don't know, some of you have met, but Pastor Trent Kirksey, some of you have seen them here a couple of times.

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I actually reached out to him, what, two days ago, said, hey, brother, with everything going on in your life, are you interested in sharing a word about this particular thing?

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And you eventually said yes, so here we are. So Trent, come on up here.

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Hello. I thought it'd be a minute before I'd stand in front of a bunch of folks and, you know, discuss this type of thing.

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But my name's Trent, this is my wife, Maria, my little girl, Noelle, right here, 27 years old, we're married, both schoolteachers, so fun stuff there, right?

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In any case, the doctrines of grace, I was raised not going anywhere to anything.

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At the age of 15 is when I heard the gospel and its truth for the first time, and it's when I received this wondrous gift of salvation that the

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Lord has given to me. However, I didn't understand, I never even heard of doctrines of grace, never heard of John Calvin, never heard of Martin Luther, never heard of any of that stuff,

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I just knew that you went to church on Sunday and Wednesday if you have time, really. And as time went on, the

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Lord continued to work in my heart and decided that He desired for me to be in vocational ministry, so then

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I enrolled into Williams Baptist College a little while back, and this is when I first heard the word

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Calvinist. And I'll be honest, it was not given in a very positive direction.

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So my reception was not very positive of it either. And so it took me a minute to really understand and really come to grips with what it was.

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And as I continued reading Scripture the way you're supposed to read Scripture, and not just one verse a day, but actually reading

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Scripture, I had to do a lot of cleansing of cultural

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Christianity. And when I finally started reading Scripture the way it's supposed to be read,

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I kept seeing the terms election, I kept seeing the terms chosen, I just could not get around it anymore.

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And so I started tackling this, I started researching it more, and eventually at this time, I had taken a position as a youth minister at a small little church in Emboden.

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And I don't know if you all have moved to that town or not, but I was there for a little while, a couple years, and this is whenever I started looking at James Watt, this is when

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I started looking at Jeff Durbin, and this is when I realized that my greatest theological hero living,

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John MacArthur, was a Calvinist. And I was like, what? I was like, no way this guy's a

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Calvinist, there's no way this is real. But anyway, I figured it out, and I was like, okay, okay. So I finally started getting some understanding, and I watched this documentary called

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Calvinist. I don't know how many of you all have ever heard of this or are familiar with it. Jeff Durbin's on it, so you know it's got to be good.

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You know, if you ever want a picture of a perfect beer, Jeff Durbin's got it for you. But in any case, I remember there was this one part that really convicted me, and he said, talking about Romans 9, interesting,

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I'd never read Romans 9 at this time. I'd never been told to read Romans 9 at this time. But when he started talking about Romans 9,

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I got to reading, and I was like, what is this? This isn't anything I've ever heard before, it's not anything

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I've ever been taught before. And I was like, this can't be right. And Jeff Durbin said something that I realized is exactly what was going through my mind.

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He said, when I realized I was arguing with Paul, then I knew I was wrong. And I was like, okay,

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I guess I'm wrong. So, then I started studying more.

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I got to Ephesians 1, for we're chosen before the foundation of the world, having been predestined. Romans chapter 8, 28 through 30.

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I like to put the through 30 as an emphasis because a lot of people like to just stop at 28. But, you know, this word predestined is a

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Bible word. It's not a Calvin word. It's a Bible word, and you can't get around it.

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And if I was to sum up, you know, he asked me to do this a couple of days ago, and I've been thinking, you know,

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I've been preaching in a Southern Baptist church pretty much my entire time. And you kind of have to be careful with this topic, but I'm in lot company here.

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So, it's like, yeah, preach to the choir. But in any case, if I was to sum up a practical impact that the doctrines of grace can give, and if I was to sum it up in one word, it would be peace.

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Some of you may be familiar with what's going on with us right now. But I will just say, even though this is probably the hardest thing that I know

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I've personally had to go through, I know that God is still in control and he's still using this for his glory.

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And there is no such thing as meaningless suffering. The Lord is working through these trials.

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The Lord is persevering us. He's preserving us for his glory. And that's about the greatest impact that I could probably give you right now.

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That the doctrines of grace, while we don't worship the doctrines themselves, we understand that they allow us to understand who we do worship.

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And that it is a sovereign God who is fully in control, and he is using us as his instruments for his glory.

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And it's just a great peace that we can have. So, that's what I got for you.

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So... What a great reminder for us.

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And, you know, as I think through the circumstance that they're dealing with, I think of those that go through similar difficulties in ministry and in their life.

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And if God is not sovereign in the way that these doctrines present, then there is no way that God has meaning in that suffering.

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Because he's not in control of that suffering. He's not in control of the circumstances. And praise

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God that he is, and there's meaning in every ounce of it. And it's preparing for us a weight of glory, right, in that suffering.

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So, thank you so much for that. Thank you for sharing with us. Well, next, I've asked Christy to come up and give us a little word, a little testimony of how

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God has impacted her life through these doctrines. Because you showed up at our door already, like, full into these doctrines, didn't you?

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Oh, she'll talk about that. All right. Well, come on up, Christy. I'm Christy Wilkes.

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Some of you I've met, some of you I don't remember meeting. So, sorry. So, the question is, how have the doctrines of grace impacted my life?

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So, I'm going to echo a lot of what Chase and Trent said. So, except I'm not flexing by Augustine of Hippo.

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I'm not flexing, so. Many of us have been part of denominations and Christian traditions that teach the

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Christian life begins and ends with man. Maybe not in those words, but that's what it's boiled down to.

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I believed it and did not question it because that's all I knew. But gradually, God was leading me and exposing me to different teachings.

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I came to 12 .5 because I wanted the word. Nathan, I actually wasn't that interested in reform doctrine.

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I just wanted a deeper understanding of the word, but I was intrigued by TULIP, and at some point, wanted to study that.

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What I didn't expect was for this doctrine to be interwoven into every message that was preached.

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It wasn't long before I realized I needed to look into this reform thing more and either believe or not believe this issue once and for all.

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It's very hard to do a virtual 180 theologically when you've only known something one way and then realize you kind of have to start all over.

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So, the first way this has impacted me is it's driven me deeper into the word.

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Does the Bible really teach this belief system? And as much as I love Jeremiah and Nathan, I knew

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I had to study this for myself knowing it may or may not align with their interpretations of Scripture.

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I was studying Scripture from every angle. Jeremiah was kind enough to try and answer all my questions, and I'm sure

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I've been used in his sanctification. And I don't see that ending anytime soon, so.

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Honestly, I don't have all the details nailed down. There are still a few nagging questions that I have.

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And if you're in a similar situation, like Nathan was talking about, where you're struggling with what to believe and you feel like you're the only one that's not getting it, it's completely understandable.

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Give yourself some grace, be patient with yourself, it's going to come together. And even if it doesn't, it's okay, right,

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Nathan? You are definitely not alone. I put a lot of undue pressure on myself to get this.

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Just, like I said, keep staying in the word. The second way I have been impacted is the realization that God is sovereign, and I am not at the center of all things.

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Salvation belongs to Him and Him alone. I can be assured that God will save who

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He will save. To me or someone else, my feeble attempts at sharing the gospel may sound like a song played out of tune, but it will sound like the most beautiful symphony to the ears of those whom

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God has chosen. He has declared the end from the beginning, and He will accomplish all

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His purpose. Nothing can thwart His purpose, not Satan, especially not me.

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Thirdly is how much I have been humbled. Now, I've had my time in the cage stage, so it took some time to be humbled.

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Even still, sometimes I go into a blind rage. So, that's still a work in progress.

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But when I examine my wicked heart, I am humbled that God actually chose me.

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And every time I fail Him and fail my brothers and sisters, I'm confronted with that truth.

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I praise Him and thank Him for knowing what He was getting and choosing me anyway. He will by no means cast me out.

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Finally, because of all this, my soul has found rest. I can rest in His love, not because I'm lovable, but because of His steadfast love that endures forever.

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Thank you. Is this encouraging for you all tonight? Finally hearing from others other than me.

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I'm encouraged by that. All righty. Well, we've got one more. And then, depending on how long this one goes, it's

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Jared, so you never know. Depending on how long this one goes, then if there is someone...

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Yeah, seriously, we need a little buzzer. Do we need a buzzer, Jared? No, I'm kidding. If there is a person in this room that has something that they want to share along these lines, then let us know.

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If we have time here in a moment, we will most certainly allow someone to speak to that. I know that I think we had talked at one point.

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Somebody... Angel, we talked, didn't we? Yes. All right. So, we'll see.

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Maybe we'll hear from Angel. I just put her on the spot. All right, Jared, come on up. I promise

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I'm not preaching, but... Oh, I told you. No, I promise.

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Thank you. Thank you. Okay, mom.

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All right. I brought props, but I won't take me... So, see, now you guys got me distracted.

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I don't know where to start anymore. Romans 9? Close, but...

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So, let me go ahead and... I guess, go ahead and start from the beginning from when... And I will need someone to tell me, like, you know, if we're getting close and stuff, because I can't have a lot to say if I get caught up.

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So, let's kind of just talk about how I figured out about Calvinism, or I kind of had a knowledge of it for a very long time.

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So, kind of going way back, my grandmother's side of the family, maternal side, you know, they were something called

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Primitive Baptists. So, you guys might be wondering, what in the world is a Primitive Baptist? Okay, Nathan knows.

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He knows about it. So, this is kind of a group, whenever we talk about Hyper -Calvinism, they are kind of like that to the nth degree.

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And so, like, there's Hyper -Calvinists, and then there's Primitive Baptists, in the sense that, at least for my family, is that, you know, it was unconditional election, and they took that to such a literal degree that, like, if they were looking at somebody like R .C.

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Sproul and someone like Christopher Hitchens, who was an atheist who, you know, argued against God his entire life, they would say that they would not know who would go to heaven.

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And the reason why they would say that is because, like, there is no condition. So, that means absolutely none. It doesn't matter if you've, you know, fruit or anything like that.

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So, they're not a very missional people. And so, because that was kind of, like, my idea, whenever I heard anything even close to Calvinism, that was kind of, like, my thought process behind it.

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And so, it really didn't really come up for myself until I got to college, around 2013, 2014 -ish.

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And the reason why I came out is I was really into debates at the time. I took a debating class.

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It was called Principles of Argumentation. And so, you know, I was kind of introduced to these debates with, like,

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Christopher Hitchens versus William Lane Craig. And so, I got really into William Lane Craig. And so, at one point,

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I started looking at stuff with Muslims because those are my friends. So, I wanted to learn how to better reach my friends with the gospel and have those conversations because, you know, until then,

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I didn't really interact with Muslims at all until college. And so, I remember at one point, they were doing a debate and they had, like, a

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Q &A section. You know, it was William Lane Craig versus Shabir Ali, and they had a question regarding, you know,

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Jesus being on a cross saying, my God, my God, why have you forsaken me? And so, I can't remember

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Dr. Craig's answer. I just remember it didn't sit well with me. And I struggled through that because I'm like, well, why did this happen?

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You know, why would Jesus say this? And so, it wasn't until I was, you know, trying to search for answers and around debates,

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I found a debate between Shabir Ali and James White. And there, James White, you know, he's going through with Megan.

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And the clip I remember, it was very specifically over that question. And, you know, he pointed out how it was going back to Psalm 22.

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I'm like, oh, this James White guy, he knows some answer I really like. And so, I started watching more debates. He was really involved with Muslim ministry.

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So, I'm like, okay, let me keep watching it. And so, now I'm, like, watching all of his videos. I've been watching it. You know,

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I'm just really dedicated to it. And so, I remember at one point, they did a video over, you know, it was essentially over limited atonement.

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And to where he, in this video, I tried to find the exact video. I couldn't find it. You know, I can still see him.

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It was back when he was, like, sitting down at a desk and he was looking straight up. It's, like, a really old video.

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And so, I remember he essentially affirmed limited atonement. You know, not everybody, God does not desire everyone to be saved.

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And so, I'm, like, oh, James White's a heretic and I shut it off. I didn't want to deal with him.

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And so, now, I'm hate watching. I'm watching this stuff and I'm watching... That's what

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I was doing. I didn't, you know, I'm, like, how do I refute these arguments? And so, eventually, you know,

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I started coming across some brothers in the faith who weren't Calvinists who would affirm the...

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They're, like, no, they're seeing scripture a different way, but they are Christians. So, that helped calm me down a little bit, you know, not be as, you know, aggressive towards it.

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That took me a little bit to even get to that point. I remember a situation where one of my buddies from the

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BCM, we were watching the James White versus Michael Brown debate. And I remember thinking, like, oh, yeah,

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Michael Brown did really good. And he's, like, no, James White did really good. And so, we just... We went back and forth, you know, it was, like, you know, that was, like, the...

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I remember one of those main conversations we had back in there. I remember that at the BCM. And so, you know, my one

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Calvinist friend I had. And so, over the years, you know, we had a... So, I think some of you guys may have heard of him.

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His name is Jeremiah Nortier. And so, I'm glad you've already heard this story.

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So, we've, you know, we would have that conversation. And so, you know, just after a little bit, you know,

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I'm starting to look through this stuff, I'm looking more at James White's stuff, you know, I'm, like, you know what, you know, the stuff when he's talking about Muslims and Jehovah's Witnesses, and, you know, all these other groups.

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I'm, like, okay, you know, I think he's really good for that, but, like, that Calvinist, oh, that's not good at all.

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And so, you know, I'll be listening to one dividing line, and I'll just turn on him. You know, because you go from Muslim ministry to Calvinism, I just turn.

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But after a little bit, you know, you're trying to go through this information, this is about three or four years getting into it, and you're trying to look at these arguments, and you're kind of seeing that, you know.

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So, growing up, I grew up SBC, you know, very missional. And so,

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I was taught really well about different aspects, like, I knew scripture was God's word. And so, there are some things that, like, reformed people just did that just made a lot of sense to me, like, exegetical preaching, expositional preaching.

32:40

Like, that just makes sense to me. And then, you're looking at elders, I'm like, actually, elders, I do see that a little bit more.

32:46

And so, after a little bit, you know, you're starting to look at the arguments, you're like, total depravity, you know what,

32:51

I think I do believe that, just that's a very Southern Baptist belief, you know, just, I'm like, yeah, you know,

32:57

I think that's true. Perseverance of the saints, well, that sounds like, you know, once saved, always saved.

33:02

So, you know, I affirm that. And then, after a while, you're like, well, I guess it is, in a sense, limited because not everybody is going to be going to heaven,

33:12

I'm not a universalist. And so, you know, after a while, you know, about senior year, I'm starting to stress out now because now it's making sense.

33:21

Seriously, you guys are laughing but, like, I was so extremely stressed out, like, I'm trying, you know, to be missional,

33:28

Calvinism doesn't make sense with missions, you know, we're talking about, like, cage stage. My cage stage wasn't

33:36

Calvinism, mine was international student ministry. If you guys, anybody knew me from the BCM, you knew that I was a menace.

33:43

And so, like, it just didn't make sense with me but I'm like, but this theology makes sense. Well, you know, if I can't tell people, you know, kind of what we talked about last week, you know, if I can't say,

33:52

Jesus loves you, well, how am I going to tell them the gospel? Like, how am I going to go about this? That's the main aspect of the gospel.

33:58

And so, how do I go about this? I remember even the assistant band director, this is the only time

34:03

I ever got mad at her. And Coralie, if you're watching this, I'm sorry, I haven't told you this before. But I remember one time they had a

34:10

Q &A and, like, I'm not sleeping trying to figure this out. And so,

34:15

I remember they had a Q &A and, you know, my question was, you know, what are your thoughts about Arminianism, Calvinism, and Molinism?

34:22

Because I really want to be a Molinist but I couldn't justify it. It was too philosophical.

34:27

I can't get my head around it. But we were, you know, we were going through and I asked that question.

34:40

And of course, these questions at the BCM, these are like more lighthearted questions. So, I get where she's coming from. But I remember she said, that's boring, can we skip this one?

34:48

And I'm like, and it made me upset. Like, I get why she did it. Like, looking back, that is a really heavy -handed question too.

34:54

What's your favorite taco? You know, what's your favorite flavor ice cream? And then, you know, what's your theology?

35:01

You know, it is kind of like a jump. So, I don't blame her. Looking back, I kind of get it. But I remember at the time

35:06

I was really upset because I wasn't sleeping through it. And I've got to, one man

35:11

I need to thank over this is a man named Jerome Stalker. He was the BCM director at the time. And so, he helped me work through a little bit of this where he didn't tell me the answer.

35:20

He said, hey, you need to go ahead and look up these answers. Search a word and try to find it. So, he didn't give me one answer or another.

35:27

And I really tried to get that answer from him. And so, and that was just kind of my struggle.

35:34

I even got ready to be a missionary up in Boston or the Boston area. Let me say it that way.

35:40

And so, and I was ready to go. Erickson was lining up for me to do that. And then around June of 2016, you know, we figured out my dad had cancer.

35:55

And it kind of put a stop to everything. And then around July is when we kind of figured out that like, you know, we tried to do the chemo.

36:04

We tried to do anything we could do. But to keep this story kind of short is July is around the time we kind of figured out there wasn't anything we could do.

36:13

You know, my dad had to tell me that he was going to die. And so, that's when, you know, now

36:21

I'm really trying to think about this. Because luckily, I really appreciate the men and women that I brought to my life, that God put my life that way.

36:30

I can think about theology. I can develop in theology and think about God and attributes of God to where, you know,

36:36

I knew, you know, I knew that God loved me. And I really appreciate that aspect of it.

36:42

And, you know, I also appreciate, we're talking about things I appreciate from SPC, the mission mindset that I got from it.

36:48

And so, but I just remember trying to go through and I was just trying to search a word. I'm like, you know, I need comfort.

36:53

You know, I don't know what to do with this information. And so, eventually, it came me down to Romans 828.

37:02

And I went ahead and read it from here. And it says, and we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love

37:12

God, to those who are called according to his purpose. For those whom he foreknew, he also predestined to become conformed to the image of his son, so that they would be the firstborn among many brethren.

37:29

And so, I've read through that verse before, trying to refute it. But, like, I remember

37:35

I was on the drive between Perigold and Jonesboro just trying to think through this stuff. And, like,

37:40

I don't know, it was kind of like I had all the puzzle pieces, most of them were put together, and it was just that one puzzle people just kind of flipped.

37:47

You know, I started going through, you know, we're talking about the logical tulip. You can't just really accept one, you kind of have to accept them all.

37:52

And it does kind of get to a point where I wish I could remember the exact thought process I went through, but I just remember at one point,

37:58

I'm like, okay, this makes sense to me. Okay, I guess I'm a Calvinist, you know, and that was just kind of it, you know.

38:05

I mean, I still had to worry about what was going on in my life, but it was something that I can grab hold of. I'm like, okay,

38:11

I know God loves me, and he is absolutely in control of this world. And so, in control of what's going on with my dad.

38:19

So, if he's going to save dad, he'll do it. But luckily, I had a father who, you know, one thing that I...the

38:28

best lesson he...the most important lesson he probably taught me, and my least favorite, is honestly how to die as a

38:34

Christian. Because, you know, one of the things he would always say is, you know, if it's my time, it's my time.

38:39

You know, that was kind of like something he would say because he knew, you know, I don't think he was ever reformed, but he knew the sovereignty of God.

38:47

And so, just being able to know that and work through that, you know, it helped a lot.

38:53

You know, I knew that the God who was in control was doing this. It wasn't just, you know, it wasn't

38:58

God messed up. It wasn't, you know, just God...it's happening exactly what was happening, which is supposed to happen.

39:05

And so, I didn't...you know, there's comfort in that, that it's not just some cosmic mistake or it was something that I had to come out.

39:15

You know, I can just say, God, you can do what you're going to do. I'm obedient to you. And so, it was...so,

39:24

it'll be eight years tomorrow when my dad passed away, August 29th. And so, you know, like, you know, how's that playing today?

39:34

Well, one thing that's kind of helped was his missions. You know, before, you know, you're trying to figure out, like, what's the best way to say this?

39:42

What's the best way I can give this message to somebody? That way, they'll accept the gospel. And now, I can realize, well,

39:48

I just have to tell them the gospel. And so, and then God can work through it, you know, even through my inadequacy.

39:56

So, I can say what I need to say and God can work through that. It's not up to me. And also, you know, kind of reaffirm that hope in which

40:04

I think every Christian has that hope that, you know, non -believers don't have with death.

40:10

And so, you know, I have confidence in my father's salvation and I have confidence in my salvation.

40:16

I believe I can have that because, you know, God's the one who can select people. It's not like I'm doing something to get that.

40:23

It's not something I've done. It's something that, you know, I'm not looking back on my works, I'm working back on Jesus' works, what he did.

40:30

And so, I've actually got another Bible verse, ironically enough.

40:35

So, fun thing about this Bible, this is a new American Standard Bible. This is actually my dad's

40:41

Bible. It wasn't the main one he read out of. You know, he mostly read out of the New King James.

40:48

That was his favorite Bible. And so, he actually would highlight this

40:53

Bible though. You know, I remember it was the day after he died, I didn't know what else to do. You know, I was really appreciative if he didn't ask me to speak or anything like that, you know, as our pastor.

41:02

And so, what I did, I went through this Bible, I went page by page trying to find every single highlighted verse that he had.

41:10

You know, one thing that did happen, I actually did give this Bible to my buddy a few years back.

41:15

So, I had to call him up and like, hey, man, I'm taking that Bible back. And so, and he was really understandable.

41:23

Chris, you know, completely understood. I actually bought him two new Bibles. Be like, hey, I'm not giving this one back, I'm sorry. But I didn't realize this until I looked at this before coming here is that my dad actually highlights the verse here.

41:36

So, here's, you know, what my father thought was important. This is actually still in verse 8, this is 38 and 39.

41:44

For I'm convinced that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creative thing will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our

41:58

Lord. And so, you know, I wish there was like a good bow,

42:05

I can't really tie this off with. But I think that's the main word I probably give to you. And so, and also that, you know, when we're talking about like last week,

42:13

Perseverance of Saints, we can't have the perseverance because we do know that, you know, everything else is tulip, it's all consistent.

42:21

And so, if I'm going to give one more just recommendation, kind of tying this back to James White and how he radically changed my life over YouTube video.

42:30

I'm going to have him give a recommendation for one of his books. It's not as well -known, it's honestly probably my favorite though.

42:35

I probably, it's a really short book, you know, you can see it right there. It's from Grieving Your Path Back to Peace.

42:43

This is something that I purchased and I probably read probably about every single year at this point.

42:51

It's like six chapters, really short. But I recommend reading this for those who are grieving or those, you know, even before then.

42:59

So, that's all I got. Thank you, brother.

43:07

That's good. Well, guys, we do have a few minutes if anyone wants to share.

43:13

I see people like hiding behind others. Anybody want to share what...

43:21

Oh, Brian, come on. No, you're up. You're the only taker.

43:27

All right, here's Brian. I may get my phone actually. So, yeah,

43:40

I mean, I guess starting on our journey here, we were looking for a church that, you know, our twins are about 13 years old.

43:47

And we were like, you know, we need a place that when they get up and go out of the home, we don't want them thinking church is about entertainment, that we recognize while we're in it, it's like we're not growing, they're not growing.

43:58

So we came here and the first sermon Nathan was preaching on, he's heard this before, but he's preaching on divorce. He's going through Matthew and we're like, we're so used to everything being topical and what applies to you that we thought, okay, well, we'll just get through this

44:09

Sunday. Maybe next week will be good, right? Maybe next week could be, you know, something we can take away something. And we're so used to getting in the car after church and asking the kids like, hey, what'd y 'all learn?

44:19

And getting a blank stare, but then immediately thinking to ourselves, what did we learn? And it's just blank. We don't, we don't know.

44:25

Well, we left that service and we talked for two hours straight about the sermon and what we learned. It just, we couldn't get enough.

44:31

Didn't know anything about reformed stuff, now she did. She didn't tell me though. And so, so she had been going on this journey, listening to MacArthur and different guys.

44:43

And, uh, kind of been going in the road and me, uh, after being saved and, and like getting saved at, uh, 17 years old and, you know, having a fire for God that I felt like I couldn't understand why other people weren't like just reading the

44:56

Bible and praying and just constant. Well, when you're around, and this is, I'm going to take this out of context, Bobby knows I like to do that after our last dinner together, but, uh, there's, you know, the, the, the verse of like a bad company, corrupts good, what is the good morals?

45:09

Well, so like when you're around people that aren't growing, you don't grow.

45:15

And so, uh, Jamie was really digging and learning and I was just focused on life, business, work, whatever else.

45:23

And so years went by. And so the point is we started coming here, um, and left the service and we're like, man, this is amazing.

45:30

And like, just incredible. When so, uh, it was a week or two later, maybe three weeks later,

45:36

I started hearing some of this, this word Calvinists and reform stuff. And I was like, okay, I've only heard negative things about that.

45:42

There's something, something's wrong here. And so we, we spent about three months arguing, but in a good way to like two or three in the morning, me trying to convince our kids that like, these people are crazy.

45:53

We shouldn't be going here. What are we doing? And there's multiple times I would say, what are we doing here? Like this, they're saying, and Nathan didn't hold any punches back.

46:00

You know, like I would, uh, I would say like, well, look, this verse says this, John 3, 16, what are you going to do about that?

46:06

And, uh, he would just answer in a way that, I mean, not that you're a mean at all, but it was like, here's what it is.

46:12

And I just had to deal with it. And so, um, I just remember points where I remember coming out that I was not really this weird coming out, but like coming out to the group, uh, so like Keith was,

46:26

Keith was preaching, teaching through first John and it was amazing. And uh, I remember the first time

46:32

I asked a question that revealed my cards and it was next to the last verse of first John it says, if you confess with your mouth, uh, you know,

46:40

Jesus, the Lord, he'll forgive your sins, stuff like that. And I was like, Hey, whoa, this seems like an if then relationship that God has with human beings.

46:46

This seems conditional. It seems like we do something and God responds. So I remember asking that question and I think that kind of like,

46:54

I don't know, it just, it revealed my hand, right? That like, I don't know if I agree with all this. And so I remember

46:59

I started having debates with Adam and friendly discussions and having uh, Jeremiah and Nathan, they spent many hours with me, which

47:05

I greatly appreciate now. I got a funny story about Adam though. Uh, Adam was very,

47:11

I appreciate the investment this guy made in my life. We were going to a race together cause I timed race on the weekend.

47:17

And uh, I remember thinking, okay, Adam, we're going to have a discussion the night before we're in the hotel room.

47:23

It's funny cause two guys, one bed, that's what the race got for. So it's going to be, if this debate didn't go well, it's going to be really awkward.

47:29

And so, uh, it was awkward anyways, I guess. But anyways, uh, so I remember

47:35

I said, okay, Adam, we're going to take, we're going to use a Bible app that picks random books. And I said, we're going to avoid

47:41

Ephesians, Romans, John. And I think I did something else cause that's your, that's your go -to and said, we're going to use the

47:47

Bible random picker and we're going to pick a book and whatever it lands on, we're going to study and see if it truly says that God's in control or that we choose.

47:56

And so I got to read the first five chapters of first Peter's what it landed on. And so, sorry,

48:06

I've got the slowest phone. If someone's got their Bible, maybe it's faster. Okay.

48:20

So we started, we sat down together in the room, it was all quiet. And you know, Adam, he doesn't hold any punches either.

48:25

And uh, I'm sure he knew what was coming. And so I was like, okay, we're going to read this together and we're going to see what this says.

48:32

And so here it says, Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ to those who are the elect exiles. Wait a minute. My phone.

48:37

Okay. Uh, of this version and Pontius, Galatia, whatever, all these other places, according to the foreknowledge of God, the father in the sanctification of the spirit for obedience to Jesus Christ for sprinkling with his blood, my grace and peace be multiplied to you.

48:50

Let's keep going. It says, blessed be the God and father of our Lord Jesus Christ. According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead to an inheritance that is imperishable and defiled and fading and kept in heaven for you who by God's power are being guarded through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

49:08

So tulip all in five verses. And so, uh, that was, that's kind of the, the beginning of quitting fighting against these guys.

49:19

I realized I was telling Nathan that my struggle was I had on one side of the scale,

49:25

God's knowledge. That's what I thought. Like if I, if I think that there are many in perspective is true,

49:32

I'm assuming that God doesn't know something. On the other hand, a human being's perspective that God's goodness that he does know, he truly does have a, um,

49:44

I don't know the right wording, but you know, an elect and not elect. Okay. So I had that scale on my head. And of course, later on, you realize that we are totally separate.

49:51

God is all together the difference. So it's not a human reasoning. So the scale is not really what it is, but, uh, so that's kind of the, the beginning for me was the, cause

50:00

Nathan was bringing up all kinds of great arguments and I called it the reform dance. You always had some answer.

50:06

Jeremiah always had some answer. I was like, come on. Using big words. I don't understand. So to me, it's like, you're just trying to, you know, pull something over on me.

50:13

And so, uh, there was a moment though, where I realized that I was arguing that God doesn't know everything. And that's why I was like, okay,

50:18

I better be quiet for a while and study my Bible and see. Uh, and I remember, you know, when you think about John 3 16,

50:24

I remember, yeah, everyone's like, oh, context matters, zoom out. And so I'd read, if you go down to three 27,

50:31

John the Baptist says, a man can't receive even one thing unless God, you know, God gives it to him. And so there's certain things that the, the go -to verses

50:38

I've showed some people on my phone where I've got like three months of no sleep cause I was freaking out, you know, trying to, that's no joke.

50:44

I was, Jamie, I'll tell you, it's like three months of me. I couldn't sleep. All these verses I remember kept pointing to not

50:49

Calvinist. And then you zoom out and you realize, oh, wait a minute, Paul fully qualified. This is God's in control.

50:56

So that's a bunch of rambling, but that's kind of my journey. I'll say that like some of you had mentioned, whenever I came, came around to realizing that this is all true, it, the puzzle pieces fit.

51:10

And now like there's a hunger for the word that like, you just, the word's alive now. And there is tremendous peace.

51:16

And when you go through tough times, for me, it's a joy that God cares enough to sanctify you no matter what happens to you.

51:23

Does that make sense? If you're going through a tough time in the past, I think, oh man, you know, this is as rough and I would try to make it better.

51:28

Now, of course, I'm like, okay, God cares enough to sanctify me through this process. So there's so many things that like I've benefited from this church, these people, of course, being around,

51:39

I mentioned before about the bag company before, there's no better men and women to be around than what's here at this church.

51:46

So anyways, that's it. Thank you,

51:52

Brian. Well, praise God. If we walk away tonight with anything is a higher view of the glory of Christ, a higher view of the call of salvation, a higher understanding and better grasp of the unity of the body because of the unity of the triune

52:18

God and His sovereign hand bringing us into that perfect unity. Like that's what we want to walk away with, right?

52:25

We don't want to walk away holding John Calvin up on a pedestal, right?

52:31

We want to walk away holding Christ up and His name being magnified in our hearts and in our minds and as we continue to grow.

52:40

And if you're one of us that still just isn't there with these doctrines, you say,

52:46

I see it, I get what you guys are saying, I don't see it that way. Guess what?

52:52

You're still one of us. You're still in perfect unity with us. We love you and you are part of mission at this church and knowing and believing these doctrines are in no way a prerequisite to be an active participating part of this unified body.

53:11

Amen? Amen. Well, guys, let's close in prayer and then we can just spend a little bit of time in fellowship.

53:16

I do want to remind you real quick because sometimes we forget the band is up here rehearsing and it's hard for them to hear when others are talking and we want you to fellowship.

53:25

Please go get your kids quick and stay as long as you want. But if we could focus on the outskirts like around the bar and over in that corner for all of our fellowship and leave this space empty, it just helps the band hear better because they have their ears and it's just hard for them to hear each other.

53:43

Fair enough? All right. I feel like I just threw a damn towel on the whole situation, but got to deal with business, right?

53:50

All right, let's pray. Lord, thank you so much for your good grace and mercy in our lives. We thank you for deep truths like this that brothers and sisters can discuss them, can dialogue back and forth.

54:02

I love the reminder earlier from Chase of Whitfield and Wesley and the brotherly affection that was held there even though the two had very different approaches to doctrines such as this, but a great love for one another in Christ.

54:20

Father, I pray that that would carry on in our hearts and minds, Lord. I pray that where we can have unity, where there is unity, where you have unified us in the key essentials of faith alone in Christ alone to the glory of God alone, that we are perfectly unified.

54:37

Help us, Lord. We thank you. Help us to grow in the knowledge of you, Father Moldus, in Christ's name, amen.

54:48

Yeah. One last announcement. If you missed Sunday morning or on the band, we do have a business meeting

54:54

Sunday. So right after Koinonia Feast, we will have a family business meeting.

55:00

It's not going to be a long one. It's going to be a very brief thing. We have something we want to present for a vote.

55:05

And so please, members, plan on being here Sunday for that. Good?