January 2 Show with Todd Friel on “The Upcoming G3 Conference” PLUS Dr. Tony Costa on “The Need of Apologetics: To Debate or Not To Debate?”

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio platform on which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage, quote, we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour and we hope to hear from you, the listeners, with your own questions. Now here's our host, Chris.

Arntzen. Good afternoon Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming. This is Chris Arntzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron, wishing you all a happy Monday on this very first Iron Sharpens Iron broadcast in 2017, Monday January 2nd, and I am delighted to have back on the program Todd Friel, host of Wretched TV and Wretched Radio.

He's going to be talking about the upcoming G3 conference that we will both be attending, God willing, in just a matter of a couple of weeks, and later on the second part of our program we have the privilege of Dr. Tony Costa being our guest again, and Dr. Tony Costa, as many of you remember from previous broadcasts, is the professor of apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary.

He is my keynote speaker at the upcoming Iron Sharpens Iron pastors luncheon at the Carlisle Vault Catering Hall, and he is also going to be debating the following night on Friday the 13th of all dates in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, he's debating Roman Catholic apologist Robert Syngenis on the theme, Mary, Sinless Queen of Heaven or Sinner Saved by Grace.

So we hope that as many of you as possible can come to those events, but first let me welcome back to Iron Sharpens Iron Todd Friel of Wretched TV and Wretched Radio.

Three things, as I am the, what you know Chris, it's all uphill from here. I'm sure a guy who did that Iron Sharpens, that sounded like you, is it you? No, I think that you being in.

Broadcasting should know that you don't have the host. Do the introduction as.

Well. That's why I'm asking, but it sounded a little bit like you. Well, I'm not superstitious, but obviously some people are, that's why there's a debate on the sinlessness of Mary. Yeah, I think Mary answered the question.

She made it clear she needed a savior. Amen. She's not that she's suggest in any way shape or form. You do that somehow, you've got to keep picking the can back. Yes, it is.

Not, and it is amazing that people have been converted from biblically sound Protestantism into these mindsets and beliefs. I'm absolutely astonished. In fact, Robert Syngenis, the Catholic debater who actually is a friend of mine, I've known him since 1996, I think, even though we are vehemently opposed to one another's positions on these matters.

He was a Presbyterian in a conservative Bible-believing Presbyterian denomination, and he actually became a Roman Catholic, which just absolutely astonishes me. But it goes to show you that no matter how much knowledge a person has in their mind, it takes the grace of God and a miracle in the heart by God himself for someone to.

Believe the truth of the Scriptures. Yeah, I don't imagine, I just I find it hard to fathom. You know, Presbyterians, Protestants would say you're saved by grace alone, through faith alone, in Jesus Christ alone.

Roman Catholicism says let me give you a laundry list of things to do, and you better make sure you don't sin along the way, and if you do, this is what you need to do, and even so you're going to end up in purgatory working things off.

Why would you want to swim the Tiber to a work-righteous system? I don't understand. I don't either, but what.

I have sensed is that, believe it or not, there is, I think, a comfort that people have in thinking that the priest and the sacraments take care of everything. I don't really need to be all that self-conscious, because this is not the Roman Catholic Church of the 16th century and prior, where people were being executed and tortured, and where hell was being hammered on people, even up through the mid 20th century.

These modern times, the Catholic Church is so modernistic and liberal. I think people like the idea of the priest, well, I don't need to know the Bible, the priest does all the learning. I don't really need to do anything but receive the sacraments, and I'm okay.

And of course, that's not what the official dogma of Rome teaches, but that is way, I think, a lot of.

Catholics think today. Yeah, I think that's an aspect, obviously, tradition. I also sure that their children understand your Protestant heritage, and they reinvented about in the early church fathers back in the read these men, and they had some wonky stuff with their, well, your heritage.

By the way, as long as I brought up the subject, at the G3 conference coming up in three weeks, speak on the subject. Let Jesus know that he wasn't persuaded through logic or reason, or that he somehow made himself a Christian.

My father revealed that to build my church. Now, is that really gonna be your theme? A few verses later, but to be deemed this. Well, it is quite providential that you are actually preaching on that.

Theme, or speaking on that theme at the G3 conference. I had no idea that that was your topic, and quite a providential thing since I'm having this debate next week on the sinlessness of Mary out here.

And if anybody could derive from the Scriptures that one of the biblical characters, prominent figures in the Scriptures would be a Pope, it would certainly be Paul over Peter, if you.

Were to derive something like that. Yeah, well, we see that even in the Book of.

Yes, and Paul was the only one of the two that went to Rome as well, that we.

Know of anyway. Yeah, you know, speaking of Paul and Peter, think of Galatians. I confronted... Did you really have an opportunity to confront the Pope to his face? I haven't had the opportunity. I'm not Hillsong.

I guess I misunderstood you, because I was.

Wondering if the Swiss Guard beat the living daylights out of you at some.

Point. Well, you know, one thing that I think can be said that is good, that has.

Brought both Catholics and Protestants into more harmony after the election of Donald Trump, now all Americans have a leader that believes he's infallible. Well, for our listeners who are unfamiliar with wretched TV and radio, which is probably very doubtful that they'd be unfamiliar with it, but if you could tell our listeners about these programs.

The right desire for you is not to try paying money, but because of a kind of saving.

Amen. I remember years ago hearing an analogy that if someone's son lost his life on the battlefield rescuing his comrades-in-arms and the the parents of that young man who died on the battlefield to save his friends were to hear someone saying, and I helped save those people, and the parents knew that their son alone had done this, this heroic deed that rescued the lives of others, everyone would agree that that would be a reason for those parents to be infuriated, to even be disgusted and sickened by the claim that someone helped this hero who died.

Now, if you multiply that by billions of times over, when you think about Christ and his finished work on the cross and his receiving the wrath of the Father to pay for the sins of his people, for anyone to claim that they added anything, that they helped to save themselves, and that others, saints and Mary and all kinds of things, helped because that work that Christ accomplished was not sufficient, that is just the the utmost of a mockery of Jesus and his perfect work on Calvary, wouldn't you agree?

The universe is about, so receives glory, so that he can be all in all. There's the.

Teleological question. I'm going to quick give our email address out for those of you wanting to ask Todd Frila a question. It's chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com. Please include your city and state of residence in your country of residence if you live outside of the USA.

We have Seth in Randleman, North Carolina, who said, please ask Todd Frila if Benny Hinn will be doing any miracles when he speaks at the G3 conference. Just kidding, he says. Now, the serious question he asks is, what are your thoughts on Christian linking arms with Catholics for social justice issues like abortion, etc.?

That's commonly, as you know, called, well, I just slipped that out of my mind, the Abraham Kuyper term. Oh, co-belligerence. Do you believe in that? Like, for instance, you believe that evangelical Bible-believing Christians should be like, for instance, picketing abortion clinics with Catholics and doing all kinds of other things like.

That. 2 John 9, anybody who's watching you, that you are in agreement. Talk about God and grace, which somebody in that audience, if you as an evangelical were standing there, think, well, I guess, you know, maybe they all believe the same, you know, sort of the same and all roads lead home, that he is the way, the truth, and the light.

And if you conclude, yes, that doing events like... Well, thank you very much for the great... Wait a second, was it Seth from South Carolina? Yes, Randleman, South Carolina, yes. Yeah, well, I got a question for you, Seth.

Why is gas in South Carolina cheaper than every place else in the country? In fact, actually, I.

Think it's Randleman, North Carolina, that Seth lives in. Oh, never mind. But we do have a South Carolinian. We have Edwin. Edwin is from Lexington, South Carolina, and he says, I recently was speaking to a friend who tried to refute me, saying that Jesus named Peter the Shepherd, and that was a simple point that proved him being the first Pope in John 21, 15 through 17.

Is this a common belief, and if so, how.

Should we answer it? Well, I think we need to remember the difference between exegesis and eisegesis. You did not know. To bring that into the text recognizes it's why that detail, that Jesus had made a wood-burning fire to serve them a meal.

How's about because it was warming his hands with when he denied Jesus three times. Now, Jesus asked him three questions. Do you love me? Feed my sheep. Do you love me? Feed my lambs. Do you love me? Tend my sheep.

It's two feeds and one tend. What was he doing? He was reinstating, if you will, not making Peter, you're forgiven. Now, carry on and go do what you're supposed to be doing, and it's none of your business about what I'm going to do with John.

So he was not making him the Pope. He was saying to Peter, who undoubtedly, and we know this because he wept bitterly, reinstating him into ministry. Well, thank you, Edwin. By.

The way, Edwin, in Lexington, South Carolina, since you're a first-time questioner, you're winning a free genuine leather New American Standard Bible that will be shipped out to you probably within a week or so.

Please give us your full mailing address in Lexington, South Carolina, so we can have that shipped out to you by Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, cvbbs .com, who sponsor the Iron Sharpens Iron program.

Thank you very much for your question. We have Tyler in Mastic Beach, Long Island, New York, who says, why is it that many evangelicals tend to lean toward an Arminian understanding of the gospel rather than monergism, which is clearly taught in Scripture?

Yeah, I think the.

Big, there's, I think there's, that is really the one who kicks it, and using, well, manipulative tactics to get people to make a decision to become. From there, that message, just, it caught it. You have got to do something.

You've got to make a decision. You've got to ask. You've got to make Jesus your Lord and Savior. I think we've also gotten a little bit sloppy with our language. It relates to the last question about John 21.

Consider when Jesus, in Revelation 3, knocking on the door, knocking on your heart. We make a repentance, but here's what else is clear. If God doesn't act on us, we won't respond. If God doesn't do it, and I think the reason that it's kind of is mean.

Why doesn't God, you mean, there are some people that he's just not gonna say, and I get, I am, did you ever read about the chosen? Why, why, wait, whoa, whoa, whoa, why didn't he pick the Moabites? Because God can choose whom he chooses, and if you're mean, why, why, why does he just elect some and not all or everybody?

You're only kicking the can down the street. God could save everybody. We make a genuine decision, and ultimately, I think we're trying to find ourselves going, I can't figure that out in my perfectly, and that might lead somebody to go, there, if you can figure out everything about God, that is very bad.

His ways are higher. You maybe wrangle over the concept of the can't get it. That doesn't mean it's not true. Human brains can't figure out. Amen. Well, I want to thank you so much for being a.

Guest, Todd. Hopefully next time you can be on longer, because we're already out of time, and perhaps we could even discuss that excellent article you wrote over a year ago, perhaps even longer ago, on 10 reasons why you should not invite Jesus into your heart.

I don't know if you recall that article that you wrote, but I shared that with quite a bit of people. It was an excellent article, but I know that Wretched TV and Wretched Radio can be found on WretchedRadio .com, WretchedRadio .com.

Anything else you'd like to add before we go turn over to.

Tony Costa for the next part of the program? If you're not going to G3, check out G3 Conference. Take a look at the people who are there, and join Chris, join me, join Paul Washer, Bill Johnson, Steve Lawson.

We are going to have a...

Amen. G3Conference .com, G3Conference .com. They've already got well over 2 ,000 people registered, and I think they have room for something like 400 more, so we look forward to seeing as many of you as possible there.

Well, thanks a lot, Todd. It's always a great joy for me to have you on the program. That's what I was gonna say. I always enjoy it, Chris. I appreciate that very much, and thanks for those ads that you recorded for the G3 Conference.

We're gonna be hearing one in a second, so. Oh, God. All right, God bless you, brother. And now we're going to a station break, and if you'd like to join us on the air with a question for Dr. Tony Costa of Toronto Baptist Seminary, professor of apologetics and Islam, you can email us at chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Don't go away. We'll be right back with Dr. Tony Costa and our theme, the need of apologetics to debate or not to debate. I'm Chris Arnson, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, and here's one of my favorite guests, Todd Friel, to tell you about a.

Conference he and I are going to. Hello, this is Todd Friel, host of Wretched Radio and Wretched TV, and occasional guest on Chris's show, Iron Criticizing Iron. I think that's what it's called. Hoping that you can join Chris and me at the G3 Conference in Atlanta, my new hometown.

It is going to be a bang-up conference called the G3 Conference, celebrating the 500th anniversary of the Protestant Reformation with Paul Washer, Steve Lawson, D .A. Carson, Votie Baucom, Conrad and Bayway, Phil Johnson, James White, and a bunch of other people.

We hope to see you there. Learn more at g3conference .com, g3conference .com. Thanks, Todd, I think. See you at the Iron Sharpens Iron exhibitors booth. I'm James White of Alpha Omega Ministries. The New American Standard Bible is perfect for daily reading or in-depth study.

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Hi, I'm Pastor Bill Shishko, inviting you to.

Tune in to A Visit to the Pastors Study, every Saturday from 12 noon to 1 p .m. Eastern Time on WLIE Radio, www .wlie540am .com. We bring biblically faithful pastoral ministry to you, and we invite you to visit the Pastors Study by calling in with your questions.

Our time will be lively, useful, and I assure you, never dull. Join us this Saturday at 12 noon Eastern Time for A Visit to the Pastors Study, because everyone needs a pastor. That's A Visit to the Pastors Study,.

Every Saturday from 12 noon to 1 p .m. Eastern Time on WLIE Radio, and keep in mind that WLIE Radio is not the same live streaming link that you're listening to now. That URL is www .wlie540am .com, and also keep in mind that when you're listening, if you tune in early to the live streaming, you may hear Spanish programming, you may hear even Hindu programming, because this station is not exclusively Christian or English.

So I just wanted you to keep that in mind, so that you didn't think that you tuned in to the wrong place. You could also hear that program anywhere in the New York Tri-State area on 540am on the dial, 12 noon to 1 p .m. Eastern Time.

And when you call in to A Visit to the Pastors Study with Pastor Bill Shishko, please tell him that you heard about his program on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, and it is a live call-in program, so you can actually be heard on air, unlike what we are doing right now on Iron Sharpens Iron, just taking your emails.

But thank you, Bill Shishko, for all you have done to encourage me in the work here on Iron Sharpens Iron. Now we have joining us for the remainder of the program Dr. Tony Costa, who is professor of apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary.

He's a published author, he is a conference speaker, he is a debater, he's a mutual friend of Dr. James R. White of Alpha and Omega Ministries and myself. In fact, that's where I first heard of Dr. Tony Costa, was on, I believe, on the Dividing Line program that James White hosts.

And I am so excited that he, Dr. Tony Costa, is coming out here next week to be involved in two major events, which we will be discussing in a bit. But it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron.

Sharpens Iron, Dr. Tony Costa. Well, Chris, as always, it's always a pleasure and.

Happy New Year to you. Happy New Year to you. And Dr. Costa, as I mentioned earlier at the very beginning of the program when I had Todd Friel on, Dr. Costa is involved in two events here in Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

The first is next Thursday on January 12th from 11 a .m. to 2 p .m. It is a pastor's luncheon and all men in ministry leadership are invited to this free event, whether you are a pastor, a president, or leader of a power church organization, someone who is just actively involved in some leadership role in your church.

And this is restricted just for men. We cannot accommodate the wives either, so we apologize for that inconvenience. But this is a men's luncheon. It will be the next Thursday, absolutely free of charge, but please RSVP by a week from today, next Monday, if you could RSVP if you're planning on attending.

That would be very helpful to us. You're gonna get a free gourmet lunch. Every pastor there or every man there is going to leave with a very heavy sack filled with free books that have been donated by major Christian publishers all over the United States and United Kingdom.

This is a really extraordinary event and Dr. Tony Costa is the keynote speaker and I'm looking forward to hearing that. Then the following night at the Carlisle Theater in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, Dr. Tony Costa is going to be debating Robert St. Genes, a Roman Catholic apologist and founder of Catholic Apologetics International.

Their theme is going to be Mary, Sinless Queen of Heaven or Sinner Saved by Grace. That's Friday the 13th of January, 7 p .m. at the Carlisle Theater in Carlisle, Pennsylvania. For more information on both of these events you can email me at chrisarnsen at gmail .com and please put luncheon or debate or both in the subject line.

And by the way I want to let everybody know who is traveling from out of state, we already know that there are people coming from New York, New Jersey, Washington DC, Maryland, Virginia. Well the Comfort Suites which is right around the corner from the both the debate venue and the luncheon venue within like a 30-second walk of both places.

Comfort Suites has got a special rate for you if you mention Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. You will get $69 a night as your fee for lodging there and that's about half, that's even I think less than half of what they normally charge.

So that's a very good rate and I will be posting the website for Comfort Suites on the program's website as soon as possible but I hope that many of you may be more likely to to travel from out of town knowing that you've got that great that great rate.

But we will keep you posted on the exact details on on registering. Well actually I have right now right in front of me the website is comfortsuitescarlisle .com. Comfortsuitescarlisle .com is where you could go to register and we hope that that you take advantage of that.

Dr. Costa it's so great to know that you are coming out here. It's so great to know that our mutual friend David Wood of answeringmuslims .com is going to be the videographer at the event and my friend Anthony Eugenio is going to be the moderator but it is such a pleasure to know that a man of your caliber is coming out to Carlisle Pennsylvania.

Can you tell us what it is that you plan on speaking on at the pastor's luncheon.

First of all? Yes at the pastor's luncheon I'm going to be truly the influence speaking on another aspect of postmodernism which is known as cultural Marxism. Compromise the concept of true compromise and family stuff in the idea that and the idea that.

So we'll be addressing some of those those key issues but particularly the the deterioration. Well that sounds like a.

Very appropriate topic for this day and age we live in and one of the things that I wanted you to address today is the need for apologetics today and the subtitle to debate or not to debate that is the question because we there are people coming from different streams of theological thought even from opposite ends of the spectrum 180 degrees opposite from another who radically oppose or oppose in some level of opposition having debates public moderated debates with people that have opposing views especially if one of the participants is someone that does not believe in the gospel of Jesus Christ as we believe the Bible clearly explains it and teaches it.

You have on the left obviously those who think that there are nothing there can be nothing productive that comes from these kinds of things which will only inevitably hurt people's feelings that this is an exercise in meanness and some would even call it hateful bigotry even though there's there's people on both sides of the issue being represented in the debate.

So I can't understand that logic at all. But then you have even on the other end of the spectrum I know some folks personally that would agree with you and I theologically on many if not the vast majority of things who would be coming from a very conservative point of view who are opposed to debates because they say to me for instance you are giving a platform to a heretic you're giving a platform for the false teacher to expose people to damning and deadly doctrines.

So therefore I do not believe what you're doing is appropriate. So how do you respond to those two extreme sides of the spectrum who both disagree with debates. Not that apologetics is all wrapped up in that one area.

We can get into the broader stream or the broader field of apologetics after this specific question. But if you could comment on.

Both sides of the spectrum on that the idea of an answer for all is commanded. I remember the controversy for the diversity and the fear is that as you rightly to the enemy to dissent all theology. But I think it's important to understand that the idea of he first and then athletes and he reasoned with people but that word reasoning there is the word of East Moss and the idea there is that he reached society in ancient Greek society the Greeks were very well known for their if you read the book of action others I'm not going to and met their challenge.

He went to the Arapagus and there the the to create and to judge and to provide and so forth and then he ends up by presenting the gospel and the resurrection. Now what is interesting is that in verses 32 to 34 of Acts 17 were told her that after the people had heard Paul speak about the resurrection of the dead it does say that some mocked and others said we will hear you again on this matter.

But then it also says that some men came to believe in the gospel and were saved and began to follow the Apostle Paul. So the idea of debating is not only entrenched within the New Testament we see it in Acts 17 but if you look at the early history of the church some of the great Justin Martyr for instance and one of Justin's famous pieces is known as dialogue with trifle the Jew where Justin Martyr engages in a debate with an unbelieving Jew about and again he argues persuasively that Jesus is Messiah and that that Jews should come to repentance and believe in him and and he we also know that Justin Martyr produced a number of what we are what we call apologies his first apology where he defends the Christian faith to the Roman Emperor.

So it's very important to understand that the idea of debating we believe that Jesus Christ is the truth. We believe that truth what public debate do and I've been engaged in a number of them with various opponents different faiths and philosophies and worldviews.

The thing that debates do Chris is they show the world that Christians are not afraid to take on its opponents that we believe that truth will ultimately prevail and that God sovereignly has used debates as he did with Paul and others to bring people to faith and and I could share with you about folks who were Muslims and how they came to Christ after being at one of my debates where I debated the Muslim imam and they heard the gospel and and they came to faith in Christ.

So there is a place for debate. And if you you when you deal with controversial issues maybe debating is not for you but God has certainly called people within the church who are gifted in that area and I could think of my good friend dr. James White in particular I don't think I'll ever do enough to the number of debates that he has done.

He's like John Wesley preaches more than anyone else I know but say this Chris debates do have results. God sovereignly walks through them and and what we do is once again we were not afraid to take on the opponents.

And this is the problem with the church is the church has become so insular we have we have receded back from from critical analysis we recede back into our little corners. When Jesus tells us that we ought to be the salt of the earth light of the world.

He tells us not to put our light on their bushel when so that it may be seen by all men. So it's really important that that believers come to realize that debating is when it comes to sharing the gospel.

And God can't.

Sovereignly use it to bring people to faith. Yes well the there is a naivete I think that some conservative people who agree with us theologically who simultaneously oppose debates there's a naivete to think that and it's even I think a wrong approach to think that Christians can or should be sheltered from the false teachings that others are teaching and preaching and writing about we.

We should be in some way equipped to have an intellectual or intelligent discourse with these people because we meet them every day. I mean unless you live in some kind of a conservative Protestant monastery you are going to be you.

You're gonna be meeting and talking with people. At least you should be. You should be either at work on a lunch break or around your holiday dinner table or wherever when you're sitting at a ballgame or any other sphere of life where you are where you are having interaction with those outside of your faith system.

You are going to be left with opportunities to to engage these people and very important conversations about the truth and to protect people. If that is even the right word to to shelter people might be the better word shelter people from these false teachings and teachers completely.

You may be leaving people totally unprepared to respond to what they have to say because they may be hearing it for the first time. They may be hearing certain arguments for the first time. And they may be total totally tongue-tied am.

I right. Yes you're absolutely correct. And think of it this way. You send them out. Well of course not unless we want them coming back in body bags. But when we send out our our men and women who are in the army or the Navy here we train them they are trained in military war.

We send them out to to know how to protect themselves from the enemy. And the same thing applies to the believer. The Apostle Paul talks about in Ephesians 6 how we ought to put on the whole armor of God and we must be prepared against the flaming arrows of the evil one.

And so if we don't protect our children by telling them what to expect. And I see this on a regular basis mothers and fathers come to me and tell me that their children have gone off into the New Age movement they they convert to Islam they they've gone into Eastern mysticism.

And many times the reason why this happens is because many of our young people don't know why they believe what they believe. And if you don't know why you believe what you believe then how are you going to be able to defend it when you are confronted with another challenging world do.

And I think that Christians must become aware that hymns like onward Christian soldiers and stand up stand up for Jesus mean exactly that that we are. Even though we walk in the flesh we do not war we do not engage in warfare after the flesh are the weapons of our.

Warfare. Dr. Costa are you there. I think we lost connection with dr. Costa. I'm sorry. Oh yeah you you kind of cut out there and I thought that mean big we.

Lost you. And three to five. You cannot avoid warfare. You don't go to concern right now. Chris. Living in Ontario. To university. Not. Do not come back. We're.

Gonna be going to a break right now if you'd like to join us on the air with a question for dr. Tony Costa about apologetics you can also specifically ask him about anything involving Roman Catholicism since he is going to be debating a Roman Catholic next week here on Long Island.