Matt Slick vs Sean Griffin After Show, 6-16-2023

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00:07

Yeah, okay.

00:14

Now, maybe people would come and check things out. Sorry So he said God has a the

00:19

God the Father has a body. He has arms legs face lungs and genitalia And he has wings too and feathers

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He has different feathers and he's a roaring furnace and he eats and he can excrete

00:33

I've never seen a door eat. Oh And He said

00:41

Christopher these they got him from my Renee I said you respond to it, but Yeah, you know, oh people oh

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I get it they're on that saying it's live that's what they're doing. Okay now Anybody wants to come in here and talk there's the link right there

01:04

You're doing an after -show. You did an excellent job. Thanks, Melissa. My goodness My goodness,

01:10

I have never heard such a convoluted piece of crap Arguments in my life like I was yeah, there's you could tell so that I'm going what?

01:21

What God has a body of flesh and bones he can eat has genitalia. He lives in a tabernacle.

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This is on a throne He's located. That's what it means. He made his image.

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I'm like, are you kidding me? What we know where's he getting this? I let a lot of stuff go because I just one of the things for real that I was doing in here

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And it was to get stuff out so that others can debate them So that others can hey, come on in man.

01:48

Come on in. That's Marlon. I believe gospel truth. Come on in buddy there's the URL and You might want to use this instead of that program you're using it's easier.

01:57

I think it's clearer I think it's a little bit better We can talk about it. If you want it's really easy to use I can I can show you it to you

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It takes like three minutes But it was good. Come on in Marlon. Come on in man. He said

02:08

God does not exist everywhere He lives in a tabernacle as a corporeal body And what blew me was away was father spiritual and the spirit is is power and water but that just You know

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Wow, and let's see Yeah, there's just some stuff and he said that spirit is a real intangible thing

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You're laughing, okay good That's who the

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Holy Spirit is because in the debate with Kelly powers He said that the Holy Spirit was an angel speaking in one of the New Testament verses.

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It's on tape. He lied really That would have been nice to know but oh well, but uh, you know

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I think it'd be good to have a debate on the Holy Spirit He believes the world is flat

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No kidding That's true. I'd like to do you believe the world's flat also see what he says

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He had such a hedge pod mixture of crazy stuff. You got that right? Oh, that's that is so right

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Do you guys want to come in here for a little bit? This is what you do. You just copy that or type it into your browser and you'll come in And you can if you have a microphone you can talk if you have a camera you can be seen

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But you don't have to use your camera. I thought you were really doing well trying to teach Matt It's like yeah, see it's like this when

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I do marriage counseling as an example of something it usually takes two hours To get down to the nitty -gritty is and you start working with stuff

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That's what I think here. It takes two hours at least To to start break where he's at and I'd better have a three or four hour discussion

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Because by then I've got enough information. I go wait a bit you said and then it starts really contradicting He's a flat earth.

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He says the book of Enoch is a nail in the coffin for the globe earth Guess what one of the easiest ways to refute flat earth is

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It's one of the easiest ways that's really simple the moon Why do

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I say that imagine this imagine a coffee table round coffee table and Three feet in diameter and let's just say there's a dome over it.

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That's about two feet in diameter. Okay? Just say now what you do is you put a round ball up at the middle atop of that that dome, right?

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And what you could do just as an illustration You could write the numbers one through ten around the equator of that ball at the middle of that dome up high

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So you got a table round table? Got a dome over the whole thing and then at the top of the dome in the dome underneath it right there

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Just at the top is a ball with run the equator of the ball left to right or whatever is one through ten, right?

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Alright, so on one side of the table, you're gonna see one set of numbers like one two, three four on the other side of the table, you're gonna see

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Things like you know, number six seven eight nine. Okay that kind of thing, right? So you're gonna see completely different perspectives in that model

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But but you don't you see slightly different perspectives from different sides

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Because if that if that model would be moved up a hundred feet two hundred feet three hundred feet kind of a thing

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Then you start seeing the rest all the numbers around it but as a slightly different shift and that's what happens with the moon and So it refutes the idea of flat earth, it's really simple

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Yeah Yeah, you know what's interesting is James. Yeah, I think he was crazy.

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He couldn't argue In fact, you know what? He didn't understand basic logic.

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He didn't understand he was the terms He's using, you know Timothy essence is you don't ask the question in philosophy.

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You don't ask the question You can't say philosophy. You can't ask the question because you don't know what essence is

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You only know what an essence is by its properties, you know Tell me what goodness is like God or whatever holiness is

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God says be holy for I'm holy. Okay, what's the essence of holy? It's a non sequitur he and to be honest he doesn't even know enough to know he doesn't even know enough about things like that I was trying to be nice But he just didn't know what he was doing he just didn't understand and He's rather dismissive and he you know,

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I think he got cornered several times it started attacking me personally but he man

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And then when I started pinning him on the issue what spirit is it's power and water

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And I started applying it into the text notice how fast he wanted to get out from that.

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Did you notice that you guys? Yeah, yeah, he was stuck on philosophy bashing made a lot of accusations

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Yeah Yeah, it was it was he was pretty bad

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Sorry, he was Hey Debbie, hey

07:29

Matt, how are you? I'm okay Good Give me a favor.

07:36

Sure. You smack Charlie upside the head. I just want to see it happen Because crap splatters

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So you even look like you're having fun Because I was so amazed She's talking to somebody on the phone right now

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She's hanging in there and we'll go downstairs in a bit and watch TV and stuff like that You still couldn't answer

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Jesus flesh and bone has not a spirit which you see me have yeah, I could understand how he could get around stuff like that, but So here let me tell you.

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So here's what I've been perceiving and why I do things kind of the way I do The you know

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The Bible tells us that Ephesians and 2nd Thessalonians 2 that there's going to be apostasy The Christian Church is going south and people fewer and fewer people can defend the

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Christian faith and I've noticed Particularly that there is has been an increase in attacks on the

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Trinity in the person of Christ an absolute attacks and It's really on the increase.

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So what I'm doing is gathering information and I'm using these kind of things. Okay, teach me What do you think?

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You know, what's this what's this the reason I do that is because it's called gestalt if I remember correctly That after a while you start seeing the broad picture and then it all makes sense and you can when you do that Then all the other variations of it are easily

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Attackable and So all of a sudden now in the past three four weeks, I've been meeting

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Unitarians of different ilks He's way out there in left field. He's in foul territory

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He's not even as good as as many the Unitarians are in their logic. It's just Incredibly bad stuff.

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So what I've done is I started an outline on Unitarian thought and And arguments and various things like that and I'm experimenting to see which works.

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So what I'm doing is the groundwork for you guys. That's not a complaint I get to do this.

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So what I'm doing is I test something in real time I test it over here test it over there test it over there to see which arguments

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Work which ones have power in them which ones they stumble over and so what they're what

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I do this It takes me weeks and months sometimes as I do it repeatedly and I see which arguments

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They have problems with and sometimes as they're giving me a response I'm able to learn something new and answer that or even develop a new argument.

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This happens like this all the time so that's what I've been doing for the past few weeks is gathering information and I started like I said my outline on Unitarianism and I spent some time on it today working on it

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And it's so it's about 18 pages right now and just that's only a couple after a couple of days of work so Anyway, that's what

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I'm doing. And so you could tell us was asking him a lot of questions And that's one reason but another reason is now it's on tape what he says

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No, it's all you know What he actually says and believes like what and you could see there were two areas

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He really failed at the definition of spirit and the idea of call upon the name of the

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Lord He failed he didn't do well with that and you could tell when he tried to change a topic and get out

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Very quickly. So there's other things I would like to have Spent more time with and asking him questions and the more

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I could ask questions See what'll happen is it's like me asking questions 90 % him answering 90. I mean

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I'll ask him questions You know a lot and he'll answer he'll be teaching a lot more than I would be people go.

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How come not refuting him I'm gathering information and then what happens is I start seeing their problems internal inconsistencies

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Then I start asking questions that are based on those internal inconsistencies and that's what it takes time to do.

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So That's what you know, it's one of the things but it started towards the end and he was starting to flail

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You're right flat earthers have no foundations. That's right In the Trinity the three persons in God are they dependent upon each other or independent of each other neither?

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They're not dependent upon or independent of so think of of God as a this is not it's just an illustration but take a think of God as one thing the same way you might think of a

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Ball of glass a sphere of glass. It's just one thing

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Glass and I know made of molecules then to be it's an illustration So the glass is just one substance glass

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That's what the Trinity is that's what God is He's that one thing and that Trinity is one thing the

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Trinitarian essence is one in the same as the nature of God's Singularity we call this divine simplicity

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The perception that we have of God is in three persons as he reveals himself

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Out of the nature of his existence as three persons So in light of that They're not dependent on each other because if they're dependent upon each other that implies what's called parts

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Parts of a whole and we don't hold to that that's called partialism and we don't do that They're not independent because that also would imply parts.

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We don't say it that way. It's a good question I'm just saying but this is this is how we respond to it that way

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Please do a discussion with Aaron for all the alleged contradictions in the Bible and modern -day debate channel I'm already predicting.

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It's the only channel he'll come on to discuss. Hey, well show me where that is And maybe could do that. He swore he'd never debate me again

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Because I know is I know his Achilles heels his Achilles heel. I know exactly what it is

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All you can do this if you ever debate him All you got to do is say when he says something that he can't substantiate this ago.

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You're taking that on faith That's it and he will go ballistic. I am NOT taking it on faith.

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Well, yeah, you are. Can you prove it's true? No, you know, it's on faith. So you have faith. Don't you? Oh, he does not like that And that's his

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Achilles heel. Once I found that out. I kept saying it. Well, that's an issue of faith. You didn't camp demonstrate We cannot definitively define the

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Trinity with our limited three -dimensional understanding of logic, but we know the Bible teaches it. That's right Randall so what do you guys think of the debate give me some feedback what you think and If you want to come in here make some comments, that's where you go do this for a little bit longer and then

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That's it. So what you guys think

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I think the guy defied made for himself a definitional box that he didn't want to get out of and You know, it's just a terminology box too he's made a couple of boxes that he's

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Very familiar in navigating but they have nothing to do with what's outside of the box as far as reality goes.

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Yeah Yeah, it's uh, that's that's right. I would agree. I think he

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I would say he doesn't know enough about logic To know that he doesn't know enough about logic.

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He made a lot of mistakes. I tried to explain it to him and You know,

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I said well genetic fallacy and I said well even comment well then what is a genetic fallacy he didn't know

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He doesn't know the basics And you don't ask you don't ask what's the essence of?

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You know like God what? There's no way to speak of him because he's completely other

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It's only by self -revelation to ask the question Demonstrates you're not aware of these kinds of Logical difficulties, that's why you wouldn't ask that He was major.

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Oh, yeah, he was majorly interrupted in the first half. Yeah. Yeah, he was and he was doing it on purpose

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Because obviously because he kept doing it even when I said please hold on and he kept doing it So yeah, he was doing on purpose

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Well, he was agitated too. I don't think he liked me Call him on the carpet stuff

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Anyway, yeah Yep, yep, yep.

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Yep. I'm fine. If you wrote a article on what I'm looking for What article? Any article that has in it what

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I'm looking for What are you looking for? essence of God Okay You've got the

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Christian turn Italian God examine Randall you can mute yourself.

16:38

Let me you sure look familiar We can't hear you. Yeah, I've been on you.

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I've been on your after show one for Matt slick live several or a few times.

16:50

Okay. Yeah, you look familiar so Did you watch it yeah,

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I caught the last 45 to 50 minutes of it and What a trip. I'll just say

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I mean he's one of his him Him trying to catch, you know,

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I'm trying to you know, slam the door on his on his on his on his on his last statement saying that Jesus is not

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God and My point my point is okay So you're saying that John the

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Baptist was a liar in all four Gospels before the four writings of the

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Gospels will record John the Baptist saying That he is the one who is testifying Being the voice of the voice of the voice in the wilderness make crying out make straight way of the

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Lord And the word the word Lord is Yahweh. So therefore and then you find in John chapter 1 verse 30

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The bat the Baptist says this is he who I said who's coming was before me

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Sorry, but here's John the Baptist the last of the Old Testament prophets saying this is he who we lie

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Isaias was speaking of So you're so he so Sean is calling

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John the Baptist and all the Apostles and Isaiah liars Yeah, either that or he's just ignorant

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He's ignorant and he's blinded by his own illogic and also the spirit of Antichrist which which indwells him so thoroughly

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But yeah, and I've used that one in mark 3 1 2 You know, it's cross -reference it with Isaiah 40 verse 3 and what they say is yes

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It was the father in Jesus that he was making way for that's what they'll do Then what you have to do is say no

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He's speaking of the person of Jesus and you have to get into logic was Jesus a person. Yes, who is being addressed?

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Yes, so it's make way that who is do you make your way for us Jesus, right? Okay, you have to do this and then they don't care

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What I've noticed that what's happening is I was telling my wife this that what people are doing more and more is arguing out of the penumbra of meaning is a shade of meaning of things and You might want to look at it that way and then they put a bunch of shades together to make it an absolute

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And that's what they're doing Yeah But you might have noticed some of the the questions that Marlon was reading one of them came up with the name the

19:22

Knights of God Yeah, what was that? Yeah Thank you,

19:28

I can't remember I think he's the one that asked about the Jesus coming back in the flesh. I'm not sure but he's my he's a good friend of mine his name is

19:36

Desmond and I'm one of his co -hosts on the channel the Knights of God and while while he before you guys ended he was

19:44

Saying weird that he definitely wants to do a review of a of Marlon of tonight's debate.

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So sure Yeah, if you want me in there to let me know if I'm available. I'll be glad to do if not no big deal

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But it's up to you guys But yeah, wow Yep Anyway so much heresy so little time.

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Yeah, he the he would have done well to read your article well, there it is the

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Christian Trinitarian God examined in depth a Great article according to Charlie since I'm posting this

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Matt slick. I had to put that in It looks like you're complimenting me somewhat

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But it's a great it's not just an article. It's a it is in -depth and I recommend it to And it happens to be exactly 500 words

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No kidding. Yeah, exactly Which I got a kick out of but I can expand it.

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There's more to put in there Which it looks like more than 500 words to me Holy cow,

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I think it's the headings might make it but it lists 500. That's what I checked. Oh, man I'm scrolling endlessly through it.

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It's gotta be more than That's probably because you have to use big letters to see

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I'm gonna fact -check you here. Please do. Yeah Another one of the like me and Desmond I just mentioned

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Desmond the Knights of the Knights of God we were talking back and forth in our own Facebook chat and regard while you guys were live and Sean seemed to have the idea that and in a sarcastic

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Rhetoric the term the definition of God's essence and he couldn't define it, but he made but his tone of voice was as though God has a

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Definable essence, but he didn't say that but he was what he was being sarcastic

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My point is when I was talking to Desmond and I'm about it if God's essence can be defined

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That means that it that it is a literal essence that you can make the ingredients of is he made of how many parts of iron and how many parts of Sulfur how many parts of nickel how many parts of you know?

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What what is it? That is a natural essence in all the universe that we can make up a

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God with Can I look to volcano and when it erupts is that God Yeah, it's he doesn't understand the issue of essence

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Well, the article I'm looking at has 11 ,000 words

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No, no. Oh, I meant the paragraph All right. I'm sorry. They just the paragraph not all the explanation

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So Yeah, it's a lot of words in there, yeah

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So when you talk about the essence of something, it's like what's the essence of a cat? What is cat

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Ness? That's what you're asking about the essence of something the ontology of something.

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What is the ontology of cat? Well, it's cat Ness. Well explain it you can't It's just that's just what it is and what's the essence of of of circularity

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Well, it's what it is. It's just circular. And so what they're asking is is an

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Definition of more fundamental nature and essence or something of an of the essence which is by definition

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The more fundamental thing and he doesn't even know this. I try to explain it different ways

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It's like what is being? Yeah, you know, it's it's just ridiculous he doesn't know

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And I do I try to be nice, you know, but he didn't know what he was doing He didn't know enough logic to know he just was making mistakes

23:59

Yeah, there's a link to the ontological and economic Trinity it might be helpful

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Yeah All right. Now Randall had a question. There's one had to believe in the Trinity be safe. No Open and continuous denial of it would cause me to and others to think you're not saved

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The Holy Spirit bears witness of truth But nothing in the Bible says thou shalt affirm that three persons in one

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God to be saved doesn't say that So you can be saved in your ignorance about God and about Christ But eventually you'll come to the knowledge of who he is and truth not that's just that okay

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Yeah, so my notes on him How many pages that I see one two

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Three pages I typed out. I Was literally typing out stuff. I try to understand my opponent but man

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If I had nothing to do and I was gonna debate him I would just for like a couple three weeks just listen to his stuff take notes and just really prepare

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But I have too much to do so. I just figured we just do a discussion impromptu debate. That'd be more fun

25:07

Hey, can you can you invite escalate to come in? I'll post the link to come in right there

25:15

That's right Escalate better than early slick if you died tonight, you'd go to hell.

25:21

Well good grief I I want to talk to somebody who's playing the part of the Holy Spirit that that would be wonderful Well, I said he's going to hell because but I said is because he's denying the true

25:32

God the true Christ That's why no, no if if escalate wants to say I'm going, you know, go to hell then why what's the reason?

25:39

Okay, you can come in and talk to us. You can say the reason is meant because I'd listen to you You or you can type it out.

25:46

Okay Okay, that's fine. Yeah, there's the link. I mean when you read the

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Bible and the Perspective of the Pharisees the Pharisees caught on pretty quickly that Jesus was calling himself

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God That's one of the reasons why one of the reasons why in one of the Events where they picked up stones to kill him and he backed up into the crowd and he went among them

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Because that that was because he was claiming to have the authority of God But if you put it's like if the blind men and blind men didn't worship him if the leper didn't worship him

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If the women didn't worship him and I could keep on going all these people that worshipped him The first people who worshipped him were the

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Magi if they Sorry, but the

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Lord God Almighty in the Old Testament said you shall worship none but the Lord That was just Obeisance it was just obeisance.

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You got to know all their comebacks I'll just tell you I'm gonna whine a little bit

26:52

In order to do what I do on multiple different fronts the

26:58

Unitarianism one this Pentecostal Islam Mormons Jehovah's Witnesses atheists

27:08

Catholicism Eastern Orthodox, I have to know so many things. Okay. It's just so much and Keeping track of it all.

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It's not so easy. So you have to gain knowledge. You're gonna learn you got to gain knowledge from these guys What do you teach?

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Why are you saying this because there are variations of this but it takes a lot That's why I spent time asking him questions to find out.

27:30

That's what's this. What are you gonna do? One of my favorite parts of Scripture is the the man

27:35

Jesus healed when he said to him your sins are forgiven and it Scandalized the the the

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Jews. How can he say that only God can forgive sins, you know, and he said well

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Which is easier to tell this guy his sins are forgiven or to raise him up he was a known cripple in the town

27:53

He says so you will know that I have the power to do both rise and walk and Yeah, and it's like he was telling him smoke that in your pipe guys.

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Yeah I'm making the claim that not only can I heal this guy I can proclaim his sins forgiven

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Which yeah, only God can do that. Thank you. Well, he was working in the authority of God, don't you know?

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You've jumped into that little definitional box that guy created Yeah, it's like So much

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So much heresy so little time. Yeah, I like that that set of verses though.

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It was like in their face Let me give you an example Yeah, I like to ask him on other thing.

28:48

I want what is I want to get into but it wasn't for the tonight was Well, Matt, you've lost all credibility news to me.

28:56

Okay is to ask him what the gospel was I was really actually curious about that.

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What is the gospel? See what he says It didn't happen, but I'd like to you know, just to say

29:08

I got questions. What's the gospel, you know? I see what he says. Well, apparently escalates not gonna come in.

29:16

So My credibility scale for him has just been lightened

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Yeah, these people that take pot shots under Aliases and handles and stuff and they don't want to stand up and I Mean it's like a drive -by shooter, isn't it?

29:41

You know just Yeah, well I got a word for it but it's not g -rated so I'm gonna keep it to myself

29:53

Yeah, well it was interesting It was bad he didn't do very well

30:03

I Love the Terminator movies good. I do too watching Terminator the Genesis. That's good

30:08

Why is it much pushback Christians that against Calvinism because they're becoming man -centered not God centered.

30:14

That's why Supposed to What's that since we're? Let you finish but I was gonna ask you what's your opinion on the chosen series?

30:25

Well, I've watched every episode And I've really enjoyed it but now with the issue of the rainbow flag on the set not being dealt with that's you know,

30:36

I Need more information, but it's it's a problem You know

30:42

But I've enjoyed the series I have you know, yeah,

30:57

I'm doing a AI generated graphic on something in another window

31:03

He would say that the gospel is keeping the Mosaic law and cleansing your sins by Jesus Yeah, that's what

31:09

I'd like to have talked about animal lover. I would really have enjoyed that I'm sure there's a lot of concepts that he's not aware of So maybe we can have a discussion what's what the gospel is

31:25

Yeah, oh

31:32

Let's see Okay, I guess it's kind of dying down Nick still talking on the phone

31:53

That's good. Well, she's Bobby Debbie. I don't know They can talk away

32:00

They can yes, they can I Don't know how they do it Rainbow flag with three -inch flag in one of the vehicles that one of the companies said worked for him yeah,

32:13

I just need to have more information because You know, it could make a difference on a few things I just don't have all the facts and just haven't gotten there yet to do it

32:21

I got so much going on the rainbow flag has added two stripes One is light blue and one is light pink and they say it stands for His children, you know going after the little ones

32:40

Boys and girls blue and pink. I mean these guys are

32:46

Yeah, they're demonized as far as I can tell. Yeah, I agree. I agree

32:56

Yep, I totally agree All right.

33:02

Well Because we're kind of winding down I want to see tomorrow what the reports are for the attendance at The Dodger game tonight

33:14

Yeah, I hope that they tank. I do have a tank so We'll see

33:26

Yeah All right, might as well get going then Turned my phone back on Okay, okay, well

33:41

It was fun. That was good and Marlon. He he puts them up for He archives him right so you can get to him and look because I missed some of the beginning

33:55

And you go go check it out. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, and his website I forget the name of it

34:02

Gospel, yeah Gospel truth. Yeah. Okay. Good. All right

34:10

Sounds good All right, I guess I'll shut it down. Oh Jeff I'm having some other things that are taking me away from the shirts

34:27

So there's a there's a pause on that right now, but yeah, I can get 5x

34:37

All right, I Guess that's it. Then Doesn't believe the

34:43

New Testament Covenant is active yet. Not till a second coming Yeah, see I like I study all that stuff too with them, but it's like it's like which is one guy

34:50

But he's got followers, but you know, it causes you to learn any rate whatever. All right guys.