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Matt Slick vs Sean Griffin After Show, 6-16-2023
Sorry. OK, now maybe people would come and check things out. Sorry. So he said, God has a God. The father has a body. He has arms, legs, face, lungs and genitalia.
And he has wings, too, and feathers. He has feathers and he's a roaring furnace.
And he eats and he can excrete.
I've never seen a door eat. Oh.
And he said, Christopher, he's got it from Irenaeus. I didn't respond to it, but. Yeah, you know. Oh, people. Oh, I get it. They're on that saying it's live. That's what they're doing. OK, now. OK. Tell you what?
Everybody wants to come in here and. Sorry about that. Sorry about that. Everybody wants to come in here and talk. There's the link right there. You're doing an after show. You did an excellent job. Thanks, Melissa.
My goodness. My goodness. I have never heard such a convoluted piece of crap arguments in my life. Like I was, you know, as you could tell, so that I'm going, what? What? God has a body of flesh and bones.
He can eat his genitalia. He lives in a tabernacle and sits on a throne. Is he's located? That's what it means to me in his image. I'm like, are you kidding me? What do you know? Where's he getting this?
I let a lot of stuff go because I just one of the things for real that I was doing in here in the debate was to get stuff out so that others can debate them so that others can. Hey, come on in, man. Come on in.
That's Marlon, I believe. Gospel truth. Come on in, buddy. There's the URL. And you might want to use this instead of that program you're using. It's easier. I think it's clearer. I think it's a little bit better.
We can talk about it if you want. It's really easy to use. I can I can show you it takes like three minutes. But it was good. Come on in, Marlon. Come on in, man. He said, God does not exist everywhere.
He lives in a tabernacle, has a corporeal body. And what blew me was away was father's spiritual and the spirit is is power and water, but that just, you know. Wow. And let's see. Yeah, there's just some stuff.
And he said that spirit is a real intangible thing. You're laughing. OK, good. As the Holy Spirit is, because in the debate with Kelly Powers, he said that the Holy Spirit was an angel speaking in one of the New Testament verses, it's on tape, he lied.
Really? That would have been nice to know, but oh, well. But, you know, I think it'd be good to have a debate on the Holy Spirit. He believes the world is flat. No kidding. That's true. I'd like to. Do you believe the world's flat also?
See what he says. He has such a hedgehog mixture of crazy stuff. You got that right. Oh, that's that is so right. Do you guys want to come in here for a little bit? This is what you do. You just copy that or type it into your browser and you'll come in.
And you can if you have a microphone, you can talk. If you have a camera, you can be seen. But you don't have to use your camera. I thought you were really doing well trying to teach, Matt. It's like, you know, see, it's like this.
When I do marriage counseling as an example of something, it usually takes two hours to get down to the nitty gritty is and you start working with stuff. And that's what I think here. It takes two hours at least to to start where he's at.
And I'd rather have a three or four hour discussion because by then I've got enough information. I go, wait a minute. But you said and then it starts really contradicting. He's a flat earth. He says the Book of Enoch is a nail in the coffin for the globe earth.
Guess what? One of the easiest ways to refute flat earth is. It's one of the easiest ways. It's really simple. The moon. Why do I say that? Imagine this. Imagine a coffee table, round coffee table. And three feet in diameter.
And let's just say there's a dome over it. That's about two feet in diameter. OK. Just say now what you do is you put a round ball up in the middle of the top of that that dome. Right. And what you could do just as an illustration, you could write the numbers one through ten around the equator of that ball at the middle of that dome up high.
So you got a table round table, got a dome over the whole thing. And at the top of the dome in the dome underneath it right there, just at the top is a ball with run the equator of the ball left to right or whatever is one through ten.
Right. All right. So on one side of the table, you're going to see one set of numbers like one, two, three, four. On the other side of the table, you're going to see things like, you know, number six, seven, eight, nine.
OK, that kind of thing. Right. So you're going to see completely different perspectives in that model. But but you don't. You see slightly different perspectives from different sides, because if that if that model would be moved up 100 feet, 200 feet, 300 feet kind of a thing, then you start seeing the rest all the numbers around it.
But as a slightly different shift. And that's what happens with the moon. And so it refutes the idea of flat Earth. It's really simple. Yeah. Yeah. You know, what's interesting is James. Yeah, I think he was crazy.
He couldn't argue. In fact, you know what? He didn't understand basic logic. He didn't understand. He was the terms he's using, you know, tell me what the essence is. You don't ask the question in philosophy.
You don't ask the question. You can't say philosophy. You can't ask the question because you don't know what essence is. You only know what an essence is by its properties. You know, tell me what goodness is like or what holiness is.
God says, Be holy for I'm holy. OK, what's the essence of holy? It's a non sequitur. And to be honest, he doesn't even know enough to know. He doesn't even know enough about things like that. I was trying to be nice, but he just didn't know what he was doing.
He just didn't understand. And he's rather dismissive. And he you know, I think he got cornered several times and sort of attacking me personally. But he man. And then when I started pinning him on the issue, what spirit is, it's power and water, and I started applying it into the text.
Notice how fast he wanted to get out from that. Did you notice that, you guys? Yeah, yeah. He was stuck on philosophy bashing. Made a lot of accusations. Yeah, yeah, it was it was he was pretty bad. Sorry.
He was. Hey, Debbie. Hey, Matt. How are you? I'm OK. Good. I'm going to do me a favor. Sure. You smack Charlie upside the head. I just want to see it happen.
I just want to see her whack, whack, whack. She quit doing that because crap splatters.
Oh, how's me? So you even look like you're having fun. Yeah, because I was so amazed. Like how like meekers. Oh, she's talking to somebody on her phone right now. She's hanging in there. And we'll go downstairs in a a bit and watch TV and stuff like that.
Watch aliens. You still couldn't answer. Jesus flesh and bone has not a spirit, which you see me have. Yeah, I could understand how he could get around stuff like that. But so here let me tell you. So here's what I've been perceiving and why I do things kind of the way I do.
The you know, the Bible tells us in Ephesians and second Thessalonians two that there's going to be apostasy. The Christian church is going south and people fewer and fewer people can defend the Christian faith.
And I've noticed particularly that there is has been an increase in attacks on the Trinity, the person of Christ, absolute attacks. And it's really on the increase. So what I'm doing is gathering information and I'm using these kind of things.
Teach me. What do you think? What's this? What's this? The reason I do that is because it's called Gestalt, if I remember correctly, that after a while you start seeing the broad picture and it all makes sense.
And you can when you do that, then all the other variations of it are easily attackable. And so all of a sudden now in the past three, four weeks, I've been meeting Unitarians of different ilks. He's way out there in left field.
He's in foul territory. He's not even as good as as many of the Unitarians are in their logic. It's just incredibly bad stuff. So what I've done is I started an outline on Unitarian thought and arguments and various things like that.
And I'm experimenting to see which works. So what I'm doing is the groundwork for you guys. That's not a complaint. I get to do this. So what I'm doing is I test something in real time. I test it over here, test it over there, test it over there to see which arguments work, which ones have power in them.
Which ones they stumble over. And so what I do this, and it takes me weeks and months sometimes as I do it repeatedly and I see which arguments they have problems with. And sometimes as they're giving me a response, I'm able to learn something new and answer that or even develop a new argument.
This happens like this all the time. So that's what I've been doing for the past few weeks is gathering information. And I started, like I said, my outline on Unitarianism and I spent some time on it today working on it.
And so it's about 18 pages right now. And just that's only a couple after a couple of days of work. So. And that's what I'm doing. And so you could tell us was asking him a lot of questions. And that's one reason.
But another reason is now it's on tape what he says. That's what he actually says and believes. It's like what? And you could see there were two areas he really failed at. The definition of spirit and the idea of call upon the name of the Lord.
He he failed. He didn't do well with that. And you could tell when he tried to change a topic and get out very quickly. So there's other things I would like to have spent more time with and asking him questions.
And the more I could ask questions, see what will happen is it's like me asking questions, 90 percent him answering 90. I mean, I'll ask him questions, you know, a lot and he'll answer. He'll be teaching a lot more than I would be.
People go, how can we not refuting him? I'm gathering information. And then what happens is I start seeing their problems, internal inconsistencies. Then I start asking questions that are based on those internal inconsistencies.
And that's what it takes time to do. So that's what, you know, it's one of the things. But it started towards the end and he was starting to flail. You're right. Flat earthers have no foundations. That's right.
In the Trinity, the three persons in God, are they dependent upon each other or independent of each other? Neither. They're not dependent upon or independent of. So think of of God as a this is not it's just an illustration.
But take a think of God as one thing. The same way you might think of a ball of glass, a sphere of glass is just one thing. Glass, and I know made of molecules. It's an illustration. So the glass is just one substance, glass.
That's what the Trinity is. That's what God is. He's that one thing. And that Trinity is one thing. The Trinitarian essence is one in the same as the nature of God's singularity. We call this divine simplicity.
The perception that we have of God is in three persons as he reveals himself out of the nature of his existence as three persons. So in light of that, they're not dependent on each other because if they're dependent upon each other, that implies what's called parts, parts of a whole.
And we don't hold to that. That's called partialism, and we don't do that. They're not independent because that also would imply parts. We don't say it that way. It's a good question. I'm just saying, but this is this is how we respond to it that way.
Please do a discussion with Aaron Raw, the alleged contradictions in the Bible and modern day debate channel. I'm already predicting it's the only channel he'll come on to discuss. Hey, well, show me where that is.
And maybe we could do that. He swore he'd never debate me again because I know his Achilles heels, his Achilles heel. I know exactly what it is. You can do this if you ever debate him. All you got to do is say when he says something that he can't substantiate, just go, you're taking that on faith.
That's it. And he will go ballistic. I am not taking it on faith. Well, yeah, you are. Can you prove it's true? No, it's on faith. So you have faith, don't you? Oh, he does not like that. And that's his Achilles heel.
And once I found that out, I kept saying it. Well, that's an issue of faith. You can't demonstrate. We cannot definitively define the Trinity with our limited three dimensional understanding of logic, but we know the Bible teaches it.
That's right, Randall. So what do you guys think of the debate? Give me some feedback. What do you think? And if you want to come in here, make some comments. That's where you go. Do this for a little bit longer and then that's it.
So what do you guys think?
I think the guy made for himself a definitional box that he didn't want to get out of. And, you know, it's just a terminology box, too. He's made a couple of boxes that he's very familiar in navigating, but they have nothing to do with what's outside of the box as far as reality goes.
Yeah. Yeah, it's a that's that's right. I would agree. I think he I would say he doesn't know enough about logic to know that he doesn't know enough about logic. He made a lot of mistakes. And he tried to explain it to him.
And, you know, I said, well, genetic fallacy. And I said, well, he even commented, well, then what is a genetic fallacy? He didn't know. He doesn't know the basics. And you don't ask. You don't ask, what's the essence of, you know, like God?
What? There's no way to speak of him because he's completely other. It's only by self-revelation to ask the question demonstrates you're not aware of these kinds of of logical difficulties. That's why you wouldn't ask that.
He was major. Oh, yeah, he was majorly interrupted in the first half. Yeah. Yeah, he was. And he was doing it on purpose. Because it's obvious because he kept doing it, even when I said, please hold on, and he kept doing it.
So, yeah, he was doing it on purpose. Well, he was agitated, too. I don't think he liked me calling him on the carpet stuff. Anyway. Yeah.
Yeah. Yep, yep, yep, yep. Fine. If you wrote an article on what I'm looking for. What article? Any article that has in it what I'm looking for. Well, what are you looking for? Essence of God. OK, you've got to hold it.
How is it what I'm looking for? You've got the Christian tour to tell him God examined.
Essence of God. Yeah, I got it. Randall, if you can mute yourself. Lemmy, you sure look familiar.
Oh, I can't hear you. Yeah, I've been on. I've been on your after show one for match like live several or a few times. OK. You look familiar. So did you watch it? Yeah, I caught the last 45 to 50 minutes of it.
And what a trip. I'll just say that. I mean, here's one of his last comments was him trying to catch, you know, trying to, you know, slam the door on his on his on his on his on his last statement, saying that Jesus is not God.
And my point is, my point is, OK, so you're saying that John the Baptist was alive in all four Gospels before the four writings of the Gospels record John the Baptist saying that he is the one who is testifying, being the voice of the voice of the voice in the wilderness, crying out, make straight the way of the Lord.
And the word the word Lord is Yahweh. So therefore and then you find in John chapter one, verse 30, the Baptist says, this is he who I said who's coming was before me. Sorry, but here's John the Baptist, the last of the Old Testament prophets saying this is he who we say is was speaking of.
So you're so so Sean is calling John the Baptist and all the apostles and Isaiah liars. Yeah, either that or he's just ignorant.
Yeah, he's he's ignorant and he's blinded by his own illogic and also the spirit of Antichrist, which which indwells him so thoroughly. But yeah, and I've used that one in Mark three, one through three.
You know, it's cross reference it with Isaiah 40, verse three. And what they say is, yes, it was the father in Jesus that he was making way for us that they'll do. Then what you have to do is say, no, he's speaking of the person of Jesus.
And you have to get into logic. Was Jesus a person? Yes. Who is being addressed? Yes. So it's make way that who is making way for us, Jesus, right? OK, is to do this and then they don't care. But I've noticed that what's happening is I was telling my wife this, that what people are doing more and more is arguing out of the penumbra of meaning is a shade of meaning of things.
And you might want to look at it that way. And then they put a bunch of shades together to make it an absolute. And that's what they're doing now.
But you might have noticed some of the the questions that Marlon was reading. One of them came up with the name the Knights of God. Yeah. What was that? Yeah. Thank you. I can't remember. I think he's the one who asked about the Jesus coming back in the flesh.
I'm not sure. But he's my he's a good friend of mine. His name is Desmond. And I'm one of his co-hosts on the channel, the Knights of God. And while while he before you guys ended, he was saying we're that he definitely wants to do a review of of Marlon of tonight's debate.
So, sure.
Yeah. If you want me in there to let me know if I'm available, I'll be glad to do it. If not, no big deal. Do it yourself. But it's up to you guys. But yeah. Wow. Yeah. Anyway, so much heresy, so little time.
Yeah. He the he would have done well to read your article. Well, there it is. The Christian Trinitarian God examined in depth. A great article, according to Charlie, since I'm posting this, Matt Slick, I had to put that in.
It looks like you're complimenting me somewhat. But it's a great it's not just an article. It's a it is in depth and I recommend it to.
And it happens to be exactly 500 words. No kidding. Yeah, exactly. Which I got a kick out of, but I can expand it.
There's more to put in there, which looks like more than 500 words to me.
Holy cow. I think it's the headings might make it, but at least 500. That's what I checked.
Oh, man, I'm scrolling endlessly through it. It's got to be more than 500.
Well, that's probably because you have to use big letters to see.
Oh, my goodness. Well, I'm going to fact check you here, please do.
Yeah. Another one of the like me and Desmond, I just mentioned Desmond, the Knights, the Knights of God. We were talking back and forth in our own Facebook chat and while you guys were live and. Sean seemed to have the idea that in a sarcastic rhetoric to the term, the definition of God's essence, and he couldn't define it, but he made his tone of voice was as though God has a definable essence.
But he didn't say that. But he was he was being sarcastic. My point is, when I was talking to Desmond about it, if God's essence can be defined, that means that that it is a literal essence that you can make the ingredients of.
Is he is he made of how many parts of iron and how many parts of of sulfur, how many parts of nickel, how many parts of, you know, what what is it that is a natural essence in all the universe that we can make up a God with?
Can I look to a volcano and when it erupts, is that God?
Yeah, it's he doesn't understand the issue of essence. Hold on.
Well, the article I'm looking at has 11 ,000 words, 11 ,000.
No, no. Oh, I meant the paragraph. I'm sorry. Just the paragraph, not all the explanations. I should have been more clear. I should have pushed you so bad. Yeah, it's a lot of words in there. Yeah. So when you talk about the essence of something, it's like, what's the essence of of a cat?
What is cat-ness? That's what you're asking about. The essence of something, the ontology of something. What is the ontology of cat? Well, it's cat-ness. Well, explain it. You can't. It's just that's just what it is.
And what's the essence of of of circularity? Well, that's what it is. It's just circular. And so what they're asking is is a definition of more fundamental nature and essence or something of an of the essence, which is by definition, the more fundamental thing.
And he doesn't even know this. I tried to explain it different ways. And it's like, what is being? Yeah. You know, it's just ridiculous. He doesn't know. And I try to be nice, you know, but he didn't know what he was doing.
He didn't know enough logic to know. He just was making mistakes.
Yeah, there's a link to the ontological and economic Trinity. It might be helpful. Yeah. All right.
Now, Randall had a question. Does one have to believe in the Trinity to be safe? No. Open and continuous denial of it would cause me and others to think you're not saved. The Holy Spirit bears witness of truth, but nothing in the Bible says thou shalt affirm that three persons and one God to be saved doesn't say that.
So you can be saved in your ignorance about God and about Christ, but eventually you'll come to the knowledge of who he is and truth. Now, that's just that. OK, so my notes on him. How many pages did I see?
One, two, three pages I typed out. I was literally typing out stuff. I try to understand my opponent, but man, if I had nothing to do and I was going to debate him, I would just for like a couple, three weeks, just listen to his stuff, take notes and just really prepare.
But I have too much to do. So I just figured we just do a discussion, impromptu debate. That'd be more fun.
Hey, can you can you invite Escalate to come in? I'll post the link to come in right there. That's right. Escalate better than early. If you died tonight, you'd go to hell. Well, good grief. I want to talk to somebody who's playing the part of the Holy Spirit.
That would be wonderful.
Well, I said he's going to hell because but I said it's because he's denying the true God, the true Christ. That's why. Now, if Escalate wants to say, I'm going to go to hell, then why? What's the reason?
OK, you come in and talk to us. You can say the reason is meant because I'd listen to you or you can type it out.
OK, that's fine. Yeah, there's the link. I mean, when you read the Bible, the perspective of the Pharisees, the Pharisees caught on pretty quickly that Jesus was calling himself God. That's one of the reasons why.
One of the reasons why in one of the events where they picked up stones to kill him and he backed up into the crowd and he went among them.
Because that was because he was claiming to have the authority of God. That's what they'll say. Yeah.
But if you put it's like if the blind man didn't worship him, if the leper didn't worship him, if the women didn't worship him, I could keep on going. All these people that worshiped him, the first people who worshiped him were the Magi.
Sorry, but the Lord God Almighty in the Old Testament said, you shall worship none but the Lord. That was just obeisance.
It was just obeisance. You got to know all their comebacks. Let me just tell you, I'm going to whine a little bit, but it's not really whining. In order to do what I do on multiple different fronts, the Unitarianism, Oneness Pentecostal, Islam, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Atheists, Catholicism, Eastern Orthodox.
I have to know so many things. It's just so much and keeping track of it all is not so easy. So you have to gain knowledge. You got to learn. You got to gain knowledge from these guys. What do you teach?
Why are you saying this? Because there are variations of this, but it takes a lot. That's why I spent time asking him questions to find out. That's what you're going to do.
One of my favorite parts of Scripture is the man Jesus healed when he said to him, your sins are forgiven. And it scandalized the Jews. How can he say that? Only God can forgive sins. And he said, well, which is easier to tell this guy his sins are forgiven or to raise him up?
He was a known cripple in the town. He says, so you will know that I have the power to do both rise and walk. And yeah. And it's like he was telling him, smoke that in your pipe, guys. Yeah. I'm making the claim that not only can I heal this guy, I can proclaim his sins forgiven.
Which, yeah, only God can do that.
Well, he was working in the authority of God. Don't you know? Oh.
Yeah. There you go. You've jumped into that little definitional box that guy created. Yeah.
Get out of that. Yeah. It's like so much, so much heresy. So little time.
Yeah. I like that set of verses, though. It was like in their face here. Let me give you an example.
Yeah. I like to ask him on other things. One thing I want to get into, but it wasn't for the tonight was, well, Matt, you've lost all credibility news to me. Okay. Is to ask him what the gospel was. I was actually curious about that.
What is the gospel? See what he says. It didn't happen, but I'd like to, you know, just to say I got questions. What's the gospel? You know.
See what he says. Well, apparently escalates not going to come in. So. My credibility scale for him has just been lightened. These people that take pot shots under aliases and handles and stuff, and they don't want to stand up.
And I mean, it's like a drive by shooter, isn't it? You know, just. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I got a word for it, but it's not G rated. So I'm going to keep it to myself. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it was interesting.
It was bad.
He didn't do very well. I love the Terminator movies. Good. I do, too. Watching Terminator. The Genesis. That's good. Why is it much pushback Christians against Calvinism? Because they're becoming man centered, not God centered.
That's why.
What's that? Since we're. I'll let you finish, but I was going to ask you, what's your opinion on. The chosen series.
Well, I've watched every episode and I've really enjoyed it. But now with the issue of the rainbow flag on the set not being dealt with, that's, you know, I need more information, but it's a problem. You know, but I've enjoyed the series.
I have. I'm doing a generated graphic on something in another window. He would say that the gospel is keeping the mosaic law and cleansing your sins by Jesus. Yeah, that's what I'd like to have talked about.
Animal lover. I would really have enjoyed that. I'm sure there's a lot of concepts that he's not aware of. So maybe we can have a discussion with what the gospel is. Yeah. Oh, let's see. I guess it's kind of dying down.
Nick's still talking on the phone. That's good. Debbie. I don't know. They can talk away. They can. Yes, they can. I don't know how they do it. Rainbow flag with three inch flag in one of the vehicles that one of the companies had worked for him.
Yeah. I just need to have more information because, you know, it could make a difference on a few things. So I just don't have all the facts and just haven't gotten there yet to do it. I got so much going on.
The rainbow flag has added two stripes. One is light blue and one is light pink. And they say it stands for the children. You know, going after the little ones, boys and girls, blue and pink. I mean, these guys are.
Yeah, they're demonized as far as I can tell. Yeah, I agree. I agree.
Yep. I totally agree. Oh, all right. Well, because we're kind of winding down.
I want to see tomorrow what the reports are for the attendance at the Dodger game tonight. Yeah. I hope that they tank. I do. I hope they tank. So we'll see. Yeah. All right. Might as well get going then.
Uh oh. Turned my phone back on. OK, well. It was fun. That was good. And Marlon, he he puts them up for. He archives them, right, so you can get to them and look. Because I missed some of the beginning.
And you can go check it out. Yeah. And his website, I forget the name of it. Gospel Truth. Yeah. Gospel Truth. Yeah. OK, good. All right. Sounds good. All right. I guess I'll shut it down. Jeff, I'm having some other things that are taking me away from the shirts.
So there's a there's a pause on that right now. But yeah, I can get five X.
All right. I guess that's it then. Doesn't believe the New Testament covenant is active yet. Not till a second coming. Yeah. I like to study all that stuff, too, with him. But it's like it's like it's just one guy, but he's got followers.
But, you know, it causes you to learn at any rate, whatever. All right, guys, I'm out of here. All right. We'll talk to you guys later. God bless.
