My Full Response to the Dr. Drew “After Show” Video

Greetings, welcome to the dividing line on a Thursday afternoon. It was over a week ago that I had the interesting experience of being on the Dr. Drew show on CNN's HLN. I Sort of on if you can call being on for like two minutes being on Certainly wasn't invited on to have a serious discussion about anything.

That's painfully obvious evidently, I was the oh, I don't know the The the token religious person to be laughed at I guess I Was told by the producer that they wanted a Spiritual insight into the issue, but it became very clear very very quickly that that wasn't the case whatsoever After the program and we played a week ago today.

We played Jeff Durbin's mix of what happened on the program, but After the program there was a about three minute after show video that was done. And of course, I I wasn't told about that wasn't invited on that and of course during the program a Shot was taken at me Insulting offensive shot was taken.

I wasn't even given the opportunity of responding to it so evidently these folks are so Incredibly insecure in their position that what they want to do is they want to bring on a Christian Don't let him speak.

And Then once he's gone Take further shots when he can't defend himself later on now, I would feel hypocritical in Responding now if I had not extended not only via Facebook But through written correspondence to the producer of the program.

And through speaking to the producer of the program on the phone an open invitation to everyone on that panel To join us on the dividing line and we would demonstrate what real conversation is what real debate is.

How to show respect to other people by actually letting them develop a point Interacting with it what they're really saying. What we're about to watch in the after show video is Really educational in that it illustrates that people who will speak very vociferously and very frequently about being inclusive and being open and And We can't discriminate and and no one should be Bigots can be the least inclusive Clothes-minded discriminatory bigoted people on the planet and That that is the essence of the culture that we find ourselves in today the the level of hypocrisy now I'm using old Let maybe I need to come up with a new phraseology, I'm using old America terms not new America.

I'm using old speak. There we go. That's let's let's not come up with news I mean, let's let's go with the established language of George Orwell Who rightly in 1984 saw what was coming and predicted it.

Even down to attacks upon the family. In fact, I was looking at 1984 just recently last week over the weekend actually and I forgotten the section where they were talking about specifically breaking the bond between parents and children and So that the state can have total control over the citizen from birth to death and that was That was right there in 1949 when he wrote it and Downright prophetic downright prophetic.

That's exactly what's going on today so Anyway What were you what we're hearing in this in this after show type stuff is Just amazing amazing to me and in fact One of the participants Erika Holden, I believe is her name Erika America on Twitter is a young woman With a master's degree in psychotherapy.

She's not a doesn't have a doctorate. She has a master's degree and she just basically is a gadfly there in New York who? Goes from program to program and does her thing. She was the one that tried to project on to me fear but it's funny to me if we're the ones that would be open to having them on and having meaningful debate and giving enough time and They're the ones Shouting me down and then having to do further damage shots.

After I can't even respond Who's the fearful one and and when what I said is completely misrepresented? And massive projection takes place. Who's really the fearful individual here? Think it's pretty obvious what the case on on that is.

So I wanted to Respond to this. It was posted on Facebook and and. But I wanted to let a little time passes to make it primarily educational. Most people saw it. In fact, I Didn't spend a lot of time looking at the comments.

But most of the comments I saw were for from Christians who were going you people are a bunch of hypocrites. You you bring somebody on you don't let him say more than two sentences in a row. You shout him down and then pat yourselves on the back for your for your bias and your bigotry.

What what's that all about? So, you know people saw it people saw it for what it was and and recognized it for what it was. I did tweet out just a few moments ago To all of those individuals. Well, I didn't tweet out to the guy the guy in the panel was just there as comic relief anyways.

I mean he threw a few things out, but I suppose Mike Schecter or something like that I forget who it was, but I didn't include him, but I did include The two young ladies and Dr. Drew in the in the list list.

So let's let's take a look listen to what they had to say and Then sort of take it apart bit by bit. Here's here's the after show video from dr. Drew on HLN from last week.

But obviously we keep talking about Caitlyn Jenner. You know the conversation I have I thought was the most Complicated of any I've seen on television which sort of concerned because it's hard. So my layer is hard to digest these things on TV.

But the one thing that we didn't really get into it's a hard thing to talk about. Was that religious issue that we end up just kind of fighting about?

Why didn't we get into it. I mean because we had to. Because we had to get to the segment on super gluing teeth in the head. You had all the time the world for the transsexual in the front row to talk about How everybody else who disagrees with him her whatever?

Our bigots and Patriarchy and all the rest that kind of stuff. Dr. Drew if you want to have a serious conversation, how about having? Just enough people to actually allow for a conversation. Let's be honest What you want on your program are sound bites you don't want conversations.

That's what that's your audience. That's the audience. You're shooting for you're not shooting for my audience. You're not shooting for the people in this program. On this program. We will spend an entire hour on one single topic it actually requires people to have an attention span more than 39 seconds and Yet for most modern American media You you don't even try to reach people Who have an attention span that goes beyond that you don't even bother because you know, there's a hundred and well I don't know how many Thousands hundreds thousands of channels there.

I don't know I've never even looked at what I have. I just need to be able to make sure to see the Tour de France. That's honestly the only reason I ever got I ever got cable was so that I could see the Tour de France and and right now the Criterion to Dauphin to Dauphin a and the Tour de Swiss and yeah, I'm a I'm a cycling fan so that but I don't even know how many there others are so I understand you've got competitors and If you go past like 30 seconds Without tickling the ears.

But the problem is then you should recognize you shouldn't bother to try to address meaningful Meaningful issues because meaningful issues can't be addressed in 30 seconds. That's the problem we have in our society today is this kind of Madness that you actually think that this was a you even said in the program that you thought this was a in-depth discussion I'm just like really Popping popping little jokes from the one guy and and this kind of stuff.

This is this is in-depth discussion. I Don't know that you know what in-depth discussion is if you can describe it that way because it wasn't even close to in-depth discussion. Sam you and I did not get into it you You cut me off you attacked me personally and We never had any meaningful exchange on anything.

You just simply said well, I'm a Christian or I was I'm spiritual and but I don't believe that there was no interaction. Do you really think that's interaction? I mean, I I dared to quote the words of Jesus.

I dared quote the words of Jesus and the immediate reaction was just Well what I did and I know I did this purposefully if you quote the words of Jesus In the the very center of the high temple of secular humanism, which is The you know cable news CNN HLN, etc, etc.

You're going to get a violent counter reaction, but Sam it's because of your rebellion against the Jesus of Scripture. That's what it is and At least I'll tell you that straight up. You are in rebellion Against your creator.

You don't get To decide we're gonna have the other young lady Say that we get to decide these things know if God has spoken we don't get to decide. We're the creatures. He's the creator his word goes.

We don't get to to countermand him. So we didn't have an interaction. I'd like to have one I'd like to I'd like to hear what you you actually believe because at times It's interesting I was I was on with Jeff Durbin today on the very fun I was very honored to be the first guest on the new Apollo Gia TV as I like to correct them.

And we went over a lot of this stuff and so you're gonna I think you're gonna enjoy that and They even had a special guest on for me that I didn't know about. So I won't say anything more about that because I don't want to I don't want to ruin the surprise.

But they did have a really neat special guest on that joined us for a few minutes in the in the program I guess they do a half-hour program that everyone will see and then if you have if you subscribe Then you can get the hour-long follow-up is how they're doing it.

So I'm not sure when that all is gonna be up, but I think it's still at Apollo Gia radio .com. But I did have a little fun pointing out that even in there even in their their logo the gamma appears a number of times that they know how to Properly pronounce when it's there just not when it's in their own name.

So I had fun with that. Anyways getting back to the subject apologize that One of the things I noticed today on the on Apollo Gia radio was when you listen to the audio of our conversation there were things that were said to me that I could never hear because I was on Skype and You know at one point. Dr. Drew said what what clash of worldviews?

I would love to have Heard that and responded to that but I couldn't. I couldn't hear it because of just the way things were set up. And you know, it didn't come across on Skype because I was speaking and so on so forth.

I'd love to have a conversation about the things but Sam we did not have an interaction. We didn't have an argument. You shouted me down you took unfair shots, but you didn't we didn't have any meaningful exchange.

Back someone else's belief like I came from a very Christian Upbringing. I have a lot of people in my family that are very religious and but here's the thing I'm also surrounded with these people that are Christian that are also very accepting and loving.

Okay, which is supposed to be the Christian that's what I want. Just just saying accepting and loving of what sin? What why do you call someone Christian who is accepting and loving of something that Jesus died on a cross for Sam could could dr. Drew.

Could you answer that? How is it? How is it that you seem to insist and you said this in the program Sam? That I am to be loving when you won't discuss what loving means. From a biblical perspective, do you know what loving means?

I can guarantee you something both Sam and dr. Drew loving from a biblical perspective is Not what your worldview says is loving God's love Resulted in the cross that bloody Instrument of horrific death and self-sacrifice.

That's what God's love resulted in. Because you see what you seem to be missing is that God's love Coexists with his holiness and his righteousness. You can't separate that out and. So the same loving God that brought about the cross likewise brought judgment against sin.

Over and over again in the same Bible that tells us about the love of God in Christ in the cross and. So there were individuals entire cities indeed entire nations that God brought his judgment against same God and.

And many Christians make the mistake of not having a balanced biblical view of the love of God either because they look at the cross and They say oh look at the love of God. But what they don't see is that the background to that is the wrath of God against sin.

And if you don't see the wrath of God in the cross, then you're not really seeing the love of God either. You're seeing just a little portion of what's actually there. So when you say loving and accepting loving accepting of what I if I love.

What nailed Jesus to the cross? How can you say I love Jesus should I not in fact hate? What nailed Jesus to the cross? What what he had to take in his own body upon the tree to bring about my peace with God?

Should I not hate that? So you need to be careful because you may be asking Christians To love that which God hates. Does God does your God hate anything? My God hates evil. He hates injustice. So does your God hate evil and injustice has has your God even spoken with enough clarity for you to know?

What evil and injustice is or is that just up to you and I to decide just for ourselves? We have our own little truth and That's what I'd like to know. So when you call for Christians to be loving I Just have to ask you have you thought through what that means to be loving From a Christian perspective.

Are you actually calling Christians to love that which God himself hates? Question that I would love to ask and you'd be welcome to come on the program and we could have a discussion of it. It'd be a fair discussion.

It would be a biblically based discussion.

But he this fellow James was going into this notion that everybody's created perfectly and the male and female concept is perfect.

Where did I say that I I said what if Jesus was right When he said that from the beginning God made them male and female that's what I said. Now listen to dr. Drew. Retranslate that into something that he can try to well evidently reject dr. Drew.

Do you do you? Believe Jesus said those words and if so Why do you put them in my mouth when I was quoting Jesus? You didn't. I said nothing about perfection. What I said was that God has an intention in creating men male and female and That it is not our right to determine on our own that God got it wrong.

I Did say that and I'll stand by that. We do not have that right? We do not have that power. We do not have that capacity or ability to overthrow God's creative decree and The result of so doing is not a new woman but an emasculated man.

It is not a new man But a masculine a woman thing in which direction you're going and so What why do you why do you get this idea that I was talking about perfection? I believe we live in a fallen world.

I Believe that I as a man have have failed to be the man that I should be as a father as a husband as a son. That that's what it means to live in a fallen world and that's the same for every woman to every Christian woman recognizes she's not been the the daughter or the mother or the wife in imperfection but that doesn't mean that we then throw out those categories and Decide well, we will just be whatever we want to be.

We'll get to define the standards for ourselves. How does that follow? And Why on the basis of less? Than two minutes of speech. Do you think you have the right or even the ability to? Interpret my position.

I mean to be honest with you. I mean just from a just on a personal level. It was incredibly disrespectful of you all To invite somebody on and assume, you know exactly what it is. They mean you did not even realize That you had a Christian minister on Who not only has learned the biblical languages but of All the people I know I know very few people who have read as many books Presenting the homosexual perspective as I have there are people who read more god bless them.

But not many not many I've been dealing with the subject for a long long time. I started dealing with the subject when you're too young lady. Panelists were not even 10 years of age. Maybe even before they're born.

I don't know how old they are. But the point is you had somebody on who could have actually provided some kind of Meaningful insight, but you did not choose to utilize that insight because that's not why I was there but it is incredibly arrogant, sir and Incredibly offensive For you to assume.

I mean, do you not see the the patronization of Your attitude toward Christians that you do you just know what Christians are believing Sam's about to do the same thing. Oh Well, actually our guest has written Over 2 ,000 books and actually has written a book on this subject done numerous public debates against You know people like Justin Lee of the gay Christian Network and Bishop John Shelby Spong and and Brian Did the idea did yet not Brian Lynch he was the American atheist what.

Well, it did D Bradshaw, but the ACLU guy Barry Lynn You you could have made something of all of that, but you didn't even you didn't even bother to know that I mean It's another instance where the liberal Secular humanist doesn't even Google Doesn't even take the time to Google.

You just throw it out there and it's because you assume Christians have nothing Meaningful to say if you want someone who's actually going to take the time to listen to the other side and interact with meaningfully.

You better find a Christian Because we seem to be only ones to do it in that weird I Wonder who's really afraid of whom when well, okay, we've already covered that one, haven't we?

He said you would go to hell basically if you're treated. He said if you.

Anyone who's listening the program knows that the word hell was never even mentioned but Sam. Anyone anyone Who remains in? Rebellion against the God who made them who gave them life. Who gives them breath.

It gives them every good gift. Even when they misuse those gifts to continue to rebel against him. Anyone. Heterosexual homosexual transgender bisexual Pedophile incestuous person. I I don't care what terms you want to use.

It doesn't matter anyone who exits this life in Rebellion against the God who has given them so much and Yet calls them to repentance and faith toward him through Jesus Christ. Will experience eternal separation from him doesn't matter.

What names you want to put on it and that includes me or you? So Being trans beat pretending to be transgender because I don't believe there is such a thing. Bruce Jenner Will never have PMS. Bruce Jenner will never give birth to a child.

Bruce Jenner will never nurse a child. Bruce Jenner is not a woman. My wife is a woman. Bruce Jenner will never be what my wife has been her entire life and I am offended that anyone would Compare him to her.

Okay. Now I believe that that's the only sane rational position to take and The fact that your side seems to be intense simply upon shouting it down Rather than demonstrating. Oh, no, it's a it's a morally good Honorable virtuous thing.

Show me the virtue Sam in being a 65 year old grandfather. Who does to his body what Bruce Jenner has done to his body. Show me the virtue in them. Because see for you the greatest virtue is Happiness.

Well, he's more happy. Well, I dispute that but would you care to attempt to make a meaningful argument? Showing some knowledge at least a little knowledge of of the Discussion that mankind has been engaged in for millennia about the relationship of happiness joy fulfillment virtue duty honor.

The things that make us humans rather than just animals and maybe that's the problem because you probably just think we are just animals. Which is why this generation has decided that it's so much smarter Than all these generations beforehand that actually sat around and had meaningful long Discussions about these things and wrote big long books about them.

I Take this too strong that I don't think you've ever read ticker. Oh, I don't. I really don't think so. I Don't think you've you've ever even familiarized yourself with any of The Roman writers on the subject or the Greek philosophers or anything along those.

I just don't get that feeling. I really don't so you're going it's not kicker. Oh, it's Cicero. Depends on what Latin class you took, huh? Anyway. You're transgender you're gonna go down. He's playing God by telling us that now we move over to Erica in the leopard print.

I think my wife would like the leopard print. Actually, I don't think she'd like what she's saying, but she'd like the leopard print. That's a nice freeze frame. Yeah. We move over to Erica and I'm playing God.

By well Allegedly saying what Sam said I said, which I didn't say but here you hear the Irrational detestation on the part of the world of The idea that God has spoken. This there's there's the I'm playing God.

No, I'm simply telling you God has spoken and in fact, of course the fellow that The fellow I was quoting was someone named Jesus and he wasn't playing God he actually was God. He said that no one takes my life from me.

I lay down my own accord. I have authority lay it down. I have authority to take it up again this command I've received my father. He rose again the third day from the dead and so, you know, you can deal with all those things but the reality is that I'm not playing God.

In fact if you actually were to think through this and I were to have the opportunity of dialoguing with you. You're the one playing God. Yeah, you are. What do you mean? I? Recognize that I am insufficient to be the center of my worldview.

I'm insufficient for that. I'm not omniscient. I'm not infallible. I am a mere creature and So in my worldview Erica, I Recognize that I am a creature God is in the center and therefore for me to have true knowledge of anything else.

I Have to first relate to God and then through God to anything else whether it's history ethics morals. Whatever it is. I have to go through God because only he is sufficient To consistently hold all this together because he made all these things.

You put yourself in the center and you put God out here someplace. So you're actually are putting yourself into the position that only God can fulfill. So the reality is Erica though, you don't know it because evidently you've never been challenged to think it through you Are playing God?

You are playing God to tell me That I can't Rely upon what God has said in his word. I cannot rely upon what God has said in Jesus Christ. You in fact are Taking the position of God not me. Would be nice to talk about it Erica.

They had to believe that this is the way God is. Every person especially in the United States We have the ability to decide what what it is. We believe ah.

Yes in here. Yeah that Constitution gives us the right to edit God. There you go. There you go. Wow such such arrogant Hubris, that's the only description for this is Arrogant hubris now what you think you're saying is that we don't have a state church to force us to believe X Y Z.

Well, that's right. We do not have a state church to force us to believe X Y Z but if you can't see the category distinction between that factual statement and how you're applying it as If I'm trying to establish a state church, ah You didn't get a good education ma 'am.

You may have a master's degree in psychotherapy But you didn't get a good education if you were not taught to think With a little more clarity than that. He's playing God because here in United States We have the right to determine what we're gonna believe so United States citizens have the right to Come up with their own God.

What if God has spoken? May I suggest? Erica. That if God has spoken it doesn't matter where you live. If God has revealed himself, it doesn't matter what's on your passport. Are you gonna stand before God someday Erica and say but but the the 14th? amendment says once again It doesn't matter what your nationality is if the tomb is empty Why aren't you listening to the guy who got out of the tomb?

Who conquered death? Why aren't you listening? You can't be neutral About him Erica. You can't be neutral about him. You can't say well, that's just your view. No. It's not just my view. The Word of God has been preserved for us and tells us what he said and what he did and Whether you like it or not Someday You are going to be held accountable for what he said in his word and all of the liberal pundits and All of the unbelievers who have helped you to avoid dealing with that are to be in the same boat you are in answering for the same thing before the same judge and They will be of no assistance or help to you then.

Yeah.

Passport got it. And um, I just think that like in and yeah, so I have a problem with people in.

Yeah, that's all. Couldn't couldn't I feel sorry. Erica when You X you completely exhaust the depth of what you're saying in two sentences. I know that's the society you live in. I know that's the Radio television thing where you're supposed to say something really quick.

Get the audience response and then move on so you don't actually have to expand upon it. I Got it. It's tough. But it's sad. I'm gonna back this up just a little bit because he.

Started to say something there. I think that like in and yeah.

I have a problem with people imposing their beliefs on other people.

Really, dr. Drew, isn't that what you were doing to me? Isn't that exactly what you're doing to me by? Limiting What I can say cutting me off not allowing interaction and then by demanding That I accept the worldview that underlies your thing.

Aren't you saying to us That we need to accept what you have to say, I mean At least I have a rational basis for saying That you need to accept what God has to say not what I have to say what God has to say because well, he made you and Every beat of your heart and every breath of your mouth comes from him.

He's holding together every atom and molecule of your body. Every bit of that complex Biochemical system that keeps you alive all the glycolysis and the Krebs cycle electron chain transport. Yeah, believe it or not Christian study science to all that stuff.

Guess what? It was designed. It didn't just happen. That kind of Statement from your perspective Demonstrates you've not thought through ultimate authorities and Look the way that the educational system has been so thoroughly corrupted Over the past number of decades.

It is quite possible that you are an educated man who has never Been challenged even in your days. I mean you're not You know, we're probably close the same age. But as long as you go to the right kind of schools You could have gone all the way through and never been seriously challenged and in the bubble you live in now.

My goodness, we're in in in the media circus of Modern America. Not like you're gonna be running into folks who are challenging you to really think seriously about certain things. The way I would want somebody opposed.

Restrictions. Are there. Certain issues and we've talked about them on your show many times that when they have the religious thing to it. People go crazy like end of life.

Abortion Now catch that end of life so euthanasia abortion beginning of life and Transgenderism are the three things she has mentioned. And when they have the religious thing. Is that what she said religious thing the religious thing?

Okay, well, I Guess Brooklyn College. I think it's where she went as very specific terminology the religious thing. They go crazy. They go crazy. So if you disagree With the the pop psychologist hipster lady, you're crazy.

They go crazy. Well, isn't it just Isn't it just pretty easy For me to sit there. Well, this is crazy. Well, if that's if that's all if that's the the depth of the conversation we're gonna have. Why bother.

But they go crazy. I guess what you mean is that You may be just for a second there recognized that there is a substantial clash or conflict of worldviews. That's what I was trying to get you to. Alright, we're getting closer.

You call it crazy. But all that is is a very surface level Childish Immature recognition on your part. That wow, they come to different conclusions because they're operating on a different worldview. There it is.

So if we can get you past the oh, that's just weird type of response then maybe we can have a meaningful conversation about the difference of the worldview and That's when you'll discover that your worldview is utterly incoherent.

Self-contradictory. Once you have a Consistent worldview to compare it to then you'll see that yours is just all over the place in comparison to the consistent worldview. That would actually explain why human beings are the way they are.

See that's that's that's how that that works.

Why can't it be understood within the context of currently available scientific wisdom? Why can't. Because we're clinicians and we're looking at this from this clinical perspective and he were clinicians really?

We're clinicians Dr. Drew question if if you took a blood a blood sample from Bruce Jenner Analyzed it and Looked at his at the DNA of the blood sample Would it indicate a male or a female. As a clinician?

You live dr. Drew in a day where we have more Incontrovertible evidence of the unique human nature of every Unborn child Than any generation before us. So as a clinician you oppose abortion, right? Right, dr. Drew.

Right Erica your clinicians. You just go with the scientific facts. Don't you? Yeah.

Okay. But that conversation. Out. He's like scared it is almost like it's if his. I hate to say but fear.

There's fear which is why We're open about discussing this and we want to have debate and we want to give Fair time to both sides. And you don't is because we're afraid. That's called projection Erica.

That's called projection. That's where you're the one who is actually afraid. But to cover your fear you project that upon the other individual. Maybe they didn't cover this in your Master of Arts degree in psychotherapy, but that's what you're doing.

That's what you're doing. And now we're about to get a.

Real interesting section. Well something about when you're too religious it's like an informant sanity and well there is such a.

It's like when you're too religious it's a form of insanity so. Yeah, is that the clinician speaking is is this a is this a formal psychoanalysis of me as insane. You know, we can sit here and chuckle because it's so obvious that the poor young lady Has no idea what she's talking about.

I mean here is the essence of the American educational system. No meaningful liberal arts background no knowledge of of the discussion that mankind has had over all of these years in regards to ethics and morality and philosophy and any of these things just Complete blissful leopard-spotted ignorance.

You know. So we We almost have to feel sorry for the poor young lady That she has been deprived of a meaningful education and hence is speaking from such abject ignorance. But but before we get too Sorry for her I Said it before I'll say it again every single person on this program Would vote in a nanosecond to have my civil liberties removed for saying what I said even in their ignorance and the worst part is That's the kind of person who might be used by the government to Analyze Christians to see where they should be put away.

Wasn't that part of the Soviet solution? Oh, yeah. See once you got totalitarian governments These people are given the power because they're puppets they since they're not reflective. They don't they don't ask questions.

They just go with the flow then they'll accept what they're told and the result is Wow. Think about it how would you like to have her as The court appointed psychotherapist to determine whether you need treatment could never happen, right.

You sure I mentioned a couple years ago Briefly on the dividing line when I came back from my second trip to teach in Berlin That on one of the days We went and visited the Stasi prison. The Stasi prison is a prison that existed in East Germany for political prisoners during the East German years under under communist rule and Dominion and Obviously is extremely sobering thing.

But what you must understand what you must understand Is that these people Don't realize that the worldview they've embraced Has no meaningful moral difference From the worldview of the people who tormented individuals in that Stasi prison.

It's no there's no there's no meaningful difference. There's no meaningful difference. The revolution has happened and we lost. We lost we lost the war. The wall may have fallen down. But that doesn't mean the one war won the war and That kind of this woman just said that I'm insane on the basis of less than two minutes of conversation and her Unmitigated Arrogant ignorance and willingness to project onto me her thoughts feelings emotions and Very very very poorly formed world pretty amazing pretty amazing stuff and I'm only a minute and 51 in Let's catch that let's not go there.

Thank you. Dr. Drew. Let's not go there. She already did. Remember dr. Drew during the program at one point I did hear this one. You Said this is a secular nation. What did you mean by that? What did you mean by that.

Are you admitting that? Secularism is now the established state religion. So you're you're you're okay now with an established state religion of secularism. Are you ready to defend? The validity of the secular worldview and to demonstrate its internal coherence versus the Christian worldview.

I Appreciate you're saying let's not go there. But If you really didn't want to go there Then why have the conversation or why not? Why not do what you could have done to actually have the conversation?

Maybe maybe it's out as outside your hands. I don't know. Maybe there's maybe your names on it, but You don't really have control. I don't know. I.

Don't know. Back to his beliefs. But what I don't respect is when he's telling a community that you're gonna go down in flames because that is what is causing. The hatred that's causing a hatred that's causing the statistic of suicide within that community.