Matt Slick Live: January 15, 2025

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It's Matt Slick Live! Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at calm .org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live! Francis, taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877 -207 -2276.

Here's Matt Slick.

Opening Technical Issues and Show Updates

Hey everybody, welcome to the show. It's me, Matt Slick. And if you want to give me a call, we're actually live, it's January 15th, 2025. If you want to call me, you can. And I'll explain a little bit of why we're off the air there a little bit.

We had, let's just say, some major technical glitches, let's just say, at the radio station and some other stuff going on. And that's it. So, we are live right now, if you want to give me a call, on this January 15th, 2025.

And I'm welcome, you know, take your calls. Alright, let me see, let me check a couple of things here really fast, because I've got a lot going on. And, okay, let's see. Let's see, I'm going to give this a...

Whoops.

Hold on, I'm typing in a phone number.

Okay.

Alright.

And, hopefully, that's some good stuff going on. So, actually, I just was texting the owner of the radio station network, and I said, do you want to call in and explain what was going on? And so, he's going to do that.

He just said he was. So, and that's no big deal. Because, you know, it's worth talking about. But, hey, look, if you want to give me a call, the number is 877 -207 -2276. And if you are so inclined, and you don't want to really call, or you don't have the ability to, or whatever reason, and you'd still like a comment or a question asked, and maybe answered, all you have to do is direct an email to info at CARM .org.

Info at CARM, C-A-R-M dot O-R-G. And, okay, that sounds good.

Alright, and so, CARM .org.

I'm sorry, there's a lot going on behind the scenes here. So, CARM .org forward slash... Let me start over. Yeah, I'm distracted. Send me an email to...

Oh, man.

Info at CARM .org. Whoa, okay, sorry about that, folks. And put in the subject line, radio comment or radio question, and we can get to those on the air. And also, we're doing something new, so...

And it's not going live yet.

How come it's not going live? It should be going live. It's not going live? Well, it seems like it is. If you can troubleshoot that and tell me what to do, maybe during the break we can figure that out, because it looks like it's live to me, but it looks like it is.

So, there you go.

Alright.

Oh, it's good? Alright. Yeah, we've got a lot of stuff going on. There's just a...

Oh, yes, I did.

I did make two rumbles, because it was weird. It was just a glitch, and I went, did it work, did it not? I couldn't find it.

I made another one.

But I guess that's why. And sorry about that. So, yeah, there's a lot going on. And, and, there's a lot of other stuff going on. Not only is there the CARM radio, and stuff like that, issues. There is a whole other slew of things, all good, that we are working behind the scenes on the CARM Intergalactic Empire.

So there's a lot going on there. And also, here's something to think about. Just an FYI. People challenge me to debates. They challenge me, I want to debate you on this or that. And because the last few have been such poor debates, the people who want to debate me, they're out of control, rude, interruptive, muting me while I'm answering questions.

It's just bad behavior.

What we're going to be doing is not having any debates until we've got this system worked out where anybody who wants to debate me has got to sign a document, an agreement, that certain things will happen certain ways.

It's not that I'm trying to restrict them. It's just, you can't be insulting. We have to have a moderator. Here's the agreed upon topic. You've got to provide definitions for the terms and the topic. Just things like this.

And we're going to be working on that and some other things related to that. We've got some other ideas, too. We've got some big ideas. So a lot of good stuff is happening, actually. But, man, I'll tell you.

I'm going to tell you. You know, I think I'm pretty good at reading, writing, arithmetic, and theology. I can't even write because behind the scenes all I'm doing is tech stuff. Just so much. And now, I think I mentioned it before, and we're still looking into this, we are talking about hiring somebody full-time as an operations director or coordinator or something like that.

So, that's what we're hoping to be able to do. And we're working out the job description. So if you're interested in something like that, you can contact us at info at karm .org.

But I've got to tell you,.

It's more like the position is more like somebody who has some expertise in the ability to keep track of projects, make calls, expand the radio show, learn how to monetize.

Twitter,.

YouTube,.

Or already know how to work with the people that we're already working with and volunteers, how to set up possible seminars, speaking engagements, and some other things. Even if you don't know how to do all that stuff, if you have expertise in a lot of areas that are similar, and you're smart enough to figure it out, that's what we want.

We want someone smart enough to figure it out, which means I wouldn't be eligible to do my own job that I'm asking for. So, we want someone who's smart, who could do that. And we're looking for that kind of a thing.

And we're working through other particulars. I'm in contact with some people about this.

So there's a lot going on.

There's a lot going on. So, yeah, I think I do have two Rumble accounts. My apologies for that. Let's see if I can get another something going here. I've got that already going, don't I? And there's a lot, like I said, just happening.

And we were out yesterday and the day before. Yeah, there's two. Oh, there's two Rumbles. I blew that one. Maybe you can cancel one of them. We could do that, you know. Maybe there's a way to do that.

I don't know. So,.

Yeah, there was a glitch. I was trying to do three things at once. Usually I can do two things at once, but not three. Alright, having said all of that, 877 -207 -2276.

877 -207 -2276.

Teaching the Trinity to Pakistani Pastors

So, this morning I did something interesting. I have a friend, Alex, who lives in Florida. This wonderful state of Florida. And he has contacts in different parts of the world. And he asked me to do a teaching on the Trinity this morning to some Pakistani pastors.

And so, I did that. We went for two hours. I connected and interrelated the Trinity, the person and work of Christ, and salvation. And I wove through all of them for two hours and did that. And I hope that they benefited from that.

So that was a lot of fun. So I was able to do that and show them a lot of scriptures. And I had to speak a little bit on the slow side because English is their second language. And there's a lot of concepts that I could get into more deeply, but you have to know better vocabulary.

So I had to kind of not talk about them too deeply, but just deep enough to expand on that. And that was enjoyable. I've also been doing impromptu discussions and debates with the Roman Catholics and the East Orthodox.

I've still been doing that. And they don't like what I say. I'm going to say it again. That the Roman Catholic Church and the East Orthodox Church both preach a false gospel, have a false priesthood, and a false Mary.

And these are the things I've been discussing a lot lately. And I enjoy these kind of discussions, particularly when they're polite. Now I know that it upsets a lot of people. Oh, and you've got to get this.

So two nights ago, I was, two or three nights ago, I was doing this very polite conversation with people who think I'm wrong. And they're Catholic, for example, a Catholic guy. Nice guy! And he was giving, you know, I would say something, he'd say something, we were going back and forth, and he would give an answer, I'd give an answer.

It was a good discussion. It really was a good discussion. And right when I'm given the gospel, all of a sudden, this has happened so many times. Okay, so here's the gospel message. This is what it is, folks.

This is what you need to be saved. All of a sudden, someone will come into the room and scream and yell and be foul. I mean within five seconds, maybe ten at the most. It is strange. It happens. It's happened several times.

In fact,.

People in the room.

Noticed it and had a comment and said, Matt, each time you try and give the gospel, something like this happens. I go, I know. It's just strange, but that's the kind of thing that does happen. So, given the gospel out, and hopefully by God's grace, he will call people, and they will come to faith in the true and living Christ, the true gospel, the true priesthood, the priesthood of all believers, and the true Mary, not the one who's a functioning goddess that you can pray to and hears millions of prayers all over the world, simultaneously spoken and thought in different languages, knows the intention of your heart, and she can answer.

It's just ridiculous. She's a functioning goddess, and we don't want to do that. We don't want to have that kind of idolatrous stuff that they're doing. I call them. I say it's idolatry. They go, no, it's not idolatry.

Oh, yes, it is. And then they say, no, it's not idolatry. It is.

It's, what's.

The word? Not reference. Oh, they use the word you know, I've said it a hundred times too, respect. There's another word for it. Darn, maybe someone in the chat there can give me the word. I've said it a hundred times.

This is one of those brain glitches. It's not called worship. It's called adoration. Adoration. We're adoring her. We're not worshiping her. And I said, here's an illustration. I said, there's a guy in a gym, and he goes out and he benches 250 pounds on a bench press.

Okay, he does it, you know, 10 reps. Then he does, you know, he does a bunch of military presses. He does some it's a bad word. He shouldn't work all these muscles in one day, but anyway. And then he does lats, and then he does abs, and he does glutes, and he does hamstrings, he does quads, calves, all this stuff.

Forearms. He does a full-blown workout. And someone said, man, that's a good workout you had. He said, it wasn't a workout, it's exercise. What? That's exactly what a workout is.

Well, no, no, it's not a workout.

It's exercise. Even though it's the same thing. And so it's like saying, no, they don't worship Mary. They adore her. Even though worship of God, praying to God, worshiping God, adoring God, all of this is the same thing.

But they say, no, it's just adoration. It's not worship. That's only for God. Even though we pray to God and Mary the same, even though we expect both of them to answer the same questions and the same answers, it's not worship.

It's adoration. So it's like a guy going in the gym working out for two hours. I wasn't working out. I was exercising. But that's what a workout is. Nope. It's different. Because I was only exercising.

I was intending to work out. I was only intending to exercise. Ah, okay. I'll back away from you. Obviously the oxygen in that area of the room isn't very good. Alright, let's get to Jermaine from California.

Jermaine, welcome. You're on the air.

The Mystery in Scripture and the Need for Context

Oh, hi, Matt. I just wanted to ask about the great mystery mentioned in the New Testament in various places, especially Thessalonians. I think I actually told your screener of Revelation, but I was more referring to Thessalonians.

I have a friend who's really heavy into dispensationalism. And we have friendly talks, but he seems to have that great mystery. He takes the theology that it's the secret rapture, and that's all we should be preaching about.

Of course, I differ with him. I just wanted to hear you develop that a little bit. I know a lot of these people who take this hyper dispensationalist view, they have one view of Scripture, and that's it.

That's rightly dividing the Word of Truth according to how they see things. I just don't see it that way, so maybe you can develop some thought on that.

Okay. We've got a break coming up. We're talking about Revelation 17 .5, a great mystery. And I think also 2 Thessalonians 2. So let me kind of look at those and we'll get back after the break. Okay, brother?

Hey, folks, if you want, hold on and we'll be right back after these messages. 877 -207 -2276.

We'll be right back.

It's Matt Slick Live! Taking your calls at 877 -207 -2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right, buddy.

Welcome back to the show. Let's get back on the air with, let's see, with Jermaine. Yeah, Jermaine,.

Welcome. You're on the air, buddy. All right.

Okay, so I'm a little confused because I looked during the break and the word mystery was used, and it occurs in different places in the Bible.

But.

In 2 Thessalonians, there's a hint of something there. But the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. So, and then Revelation, and Revelation basically 10 and 17. So there's different ones. So which one is, which verse or verses is he focusing on about this mystery?

What do you think it is? Let's take a look at it.

You know, actually, it was actually 1 Timothy 3 .16. I'm sorry about that. That's the great mystery that he's referring to.

1 Timothy 3 .16.

Okay. Okay.

But by common confession, great is the mystery of godliness. He was revealed in the flesh, was vindicated in the spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed by the nations, believed in the world, taken up in glory.

The mystery. The Greek word is incidentally, mysterion. Mysterion.

And also Ephesians 5 .32 is like a text, just wherever the word mystery is, but especially.

The word.

Mystery seems to be referring to the rapture.

Ah.

Okay, well, it says this in Ephesians 5 .32. And I'll go to verse 29. For no one has hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it just as Christ also does the church because we are all members of his body.

For this reason, a man shall leave his father and mother and shall be joined to his wife. The two shall be one flesh. The mystery is great. But I'm speaking with reference to Christ and his church. That has nothing to do with the rapture.

In Ephesians 5 .32.

What other verse was he looking at?

Yeah, just, I think the next one will probably be maybe Matthew 13 .11, but it says the mystery is in the kingdom of heaven, but it seems like mystery is always some sort of secret revelation only given to the church in this age according to how they view things.

And it's really kind of trying to, I don't want to say argue in a circle, but it seems like they have one particular view and that's it. Like there's no every other view is not correct according to them.

This is what you do when you meet people like this and they make a statement and they might say a statement for example, the mystery is dealing with the rapture it's pre-tribulation rapture. Let's say someone says that.

You say, well can you show me a verse? Not 50 all at once. One at a time. I'd like to look at one verse at a time and to see what you want to say about that if it says that. That's what you do. Because a lot of times you don't know what they're getting at.

And I get a verbal carpet bombing sometimes. People will say, well pre-trib rapture is true because.

And then.

They just throw out 40 verses and really fast you go, excuse me but that does nothing other than just lay down a bunch of verses out of context let's take a look at them. Let's go look. And when I do that their view just dismantles itself generally speaking.

Because a lot of times they're reading into the text and I say, well let's look at the context. Like, here's an example of something. Tradition. And I was talking to a Roman Catholic recently and this is a brief example of something.

He says tradition, you're supposed to follow tradition. And tradition of the church is true. And I said, where does it say that in the Bible? And they said, this person says 2 Thessalonians 2 .15 where it says, stand firm and hold the traditions which you were taught.

I said, see there you go. And I said, let's look at the context. And in this case you've got to read the whole chapter and the tradition he's talking about is the return of Christ and the arrival of the Antichrist.

That's what he's talking about specifically. So it's not about everything that the church might do in all traditions. And it's just a good simple illustrating point that when you read the context of something, a lot of times what they say just goes away.

Make sense?

Yes, makes perfect sense. And I'll get with him and I'll get back to you and I'll let you know how things.

Work. Okay, and if that doesn't work I assume you're a big guy. Just get him in a headlock, okay?

And just.

Cut off the oxygen of the brain a little bit until he passes out, then whisper in his ear it's not true. Until he wakes up and then, you know, there's different techniques.

I'll do it in love.

Because we do like each other.

Do it in love. Get him a headlock. A friend of mine, Charlie, used to call it shrimping. I remember that back in the day, Charlie. Shrimping. When a big guy would take a small guy, he's a shrimp. I don't know what the word was.

And then do something to him, he'd say, there you go.

You know, it's just called shrimping. So, I don't know, man. Charlie's looking at me obscene. I remember that. You told me that, Charlie, like 40 years ago. So I remember that. I never forgot that term.

So he's.

Chuckling. Alright, buddy?

Alright, thanks a lot, man.

I appreciate you. Alright, man. God bless.

Full Preterism and the Visible Return of Christ

Alright.

Now, let's get on with Kit from Arizona. Kit, welcome you on the air, buddy.

Hey, I got a couple of questions, but I'll go with the easy one first because I don't know how much time you got. How do you refute full preterists? I got this. A friend of mine keeps bringing it to me.

I hope he's listening.

Well, to me, it's terrifyingly easy because I would have them agree to what full preterism teaches.

That.

Jesus returned in the armies of Jerusalem to destroy Jerusalem. That's what they're going to say, right? And they'll say, yeah. And I say, okay. Let's go to Acts 1, 9 -11. And I've done this many times with full preterists.

And after he had said these things, as Jesus said some stuff to the disciples, he was lifted up while they're looking on and a cloud received him out of their sight. And I ask the preterists, I say, lifted up.

Was that into the air? Into the sky where the cloud received him out of their sight? And they've always said yes. Okay, good. As they were gazing intently into the sky while he was going on, two men sit beside him.

So they're looking up where the clouds are in the sky. Is that correct? And they'll say, well, yes. Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This is the NASB. This Jesus who's been taken from you into heaven will come in just a way.

He said, well, you've watched him go into heaven. So I said, that's how he's coming back, not in the armies of Jerusalem, because that's the prophecy out of the sky. And that's how you refute them. Now, proof is different than persuasion.

That's proof that full preterism is wrong. What they'll do then, I'm sure you're kind of familiar with this, because you're no slouch with scripture, is they will start saying, well, you see, the sky represents this, and the cloud represents that, and then they start inserting stuff from all over the place.

And then I go back to the text, and I read it again. Well, it says sky where the clouds are. That's where he was. That's how I begin, and I go to another place after that. Any comments, or you want to go on?

I can show you what else I do with it.

Well, that's funny, because that's the same answer I gave him. I said, I don't know if they're saying Jesus returned invisibly, or what the deal is, but he went up physically in a cloud. People saw it.

That's exactly what I said to him, but he said, I want the Matt answer, and I said, well, call Matt Slick live. And he hasn't done that yet, so hopefully he's listening today.

Well, hopefully. Well, let me just add a little bit more into this before the break. This is 1 Thessalonians 4, 15. By this we say to you by the word of the Lord that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will not precede those who have fallen asleep, for the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout.

Descending from heaven. He went into heaven. He's going to come back, descending from heaven, right? Oh, there's the break, so hold on. I'll start this over again at the end of the break.

After the break. We'll get into that, okay?

So hold on, buddy. Hey, folks, be right back after these messages. You can give me a call. 877 -207 -2276.

877 -207 -2276. 877 -207 -2276. Here's Matt Slick.

Welcome back to the show, everybody. If you want to give me a call, the number is 877 -207 -2276. 877 -207 -2276. You can also email me info at CARM .org. Info at C-A-R-M dot O-R-G. I'm putting the subject line radio comment, radio question.

Let's get back on with Kit.

Are you still there, buddy?

I am, yeah.

So there's a couple other things I throw out at people when I'm talking about this. It's a listen. As I was saying, go to 1 Thessalonians 4. You can start at verse 16. For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout.

Now this talks about the single coming of the Lord. That's verse 15. Will you be alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, the return of Christ. For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout.

That's just like it says in Acts 1, 9 -11. With the voice of the archangel, with the trumpet of God, the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together to meet them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.

In the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. So the return of Christ, the one return of Christ is specified that we're going to meet him in the air in the clouds. Now what they'll do is say this is really ridiculous Sorry but it is.

They say the clouds like a cloud of witnesses. And they just, they go someplace else take the word cloud in a different context and transfer the meaning over to here. It's called illegitimate totality transfer.

It means that a word has lots of meanings and you take one of those meanings and move it around where you want it to be to get the text to say what you want it to say. Like when I talk to the Catholics.

Matthew 1 .25 Mary was, he kept her virgin until Jesus was born. Well obviously the context tells you exactly what's going on there. Until Jesus was born. But they'll say well the word until over here in this place can mean continuing on and it does in some other places.

So therefore that's what it means here. And they do this kind of a thing. And so it's illegitimate. You shouldn't do that. You read something for what it says. So that's one of the things I'll do is go to Acts 1 .9 -11 and then 1 Thessalonians 4 15 -17.

And I often sometimes will help them out a little bit, which doesn't help them out. I'll go to Matthew 24 .29 through 31. But immediately after the tribulation of those days, and folks who are pre-tribulation rapture, check this out.

But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, the moon will not give its light the stars will fall from the sky the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And they'll say those words are used in the Old Testament in various forms of judgment in the Old Testament context.

Judgment and mighty things happening. I'll say yeah, that's true. It says, and then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky. In the sky. And then all the tribes in the earth will mourn and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory.

And then what they'll often do is say, well, it doesn't mean he's literally on the clouds. It means that they've already got there in 70 A .D. and this is just a phrase talking about his great power. But it says coming on the clouds which is fulfilling how Jesus is coming out of the clouds in Acts 1 .9 -11.

Then it says, and he will send forth his angel with the great trumpet and they will gather as elect from the four winds from one end of the sky to the other. So, obviously this is talking about Jesus returning the clouds, the sky are mentioned just as 1 Thessalonians 4 15 -17 talks about Jesus returning in the clouds in Acts 1 .9 -11 talks about him returning in the clouds.

And these are the three areas I'll go through with full preterists and I'll just repeat it as a cycle. You know, a trinity of pericopes and say, well this is what it says. But now you're just adding in cloud means it's over there and witnessing over there means something so you're putting it over into this text to make it say what you want and I can call him on the carpet on it.

Make sense?

Yeah, makes sense. That's what I talked to him about and I talked to him about the fact that the Jehovah's Witnesses say he came back invisibly even though the Bible says everybody will see him and all of that.

We're talking about, I don't think he would mind me saying it, we're talking about Myles, he's an atheist and he's been going to discord servers that are full of full preterists and he asked me how to deal with it and then when I told him he said he wants a Matt Slick answer and I said call him up.

He asked a great question.

Myles is a good guy.

I've got another question if you've got time. Do you have time? Sure, go ahead. So I've been reading Jeremiah and in Jeremiah 45 God talks about doing judgment against Egypt and other places other than Judah.

Mostly he's talking about taking over Jerusalem and the Chaldeans taking the Jews into exile and all that but he talks about other nations too and so I'm wondering he talks about their idolatry and things.

I'm wondering is the Bible saying that God gave the Torah to all the nations around Israel because it seems like he's making them responsible for keeping the Torah even though they weren't at Mount Sinai.

What do you do with that?

I have to look at the exact verse to see. I'm looking at you said Jeremiah 45 which is only five verses and it's a message to.

It is? Yeah.

Jeremiah 45.

You're right. I gave the wrong one. I probably meant 46. He talks about a whole bunch of nations. There's the day of judgment in the Old Testament for people who are listening. There's a day of judgment in the Old Testament and there's one in the New Testament and the one in the Old Testament he deals with a whole bunch of nations and he deals with them the same way he deals with Israel.

For their idolatry for their adultery, for sacrificing children and all of that which seems to indicate he gave the law to all of them or they were aware of it somehow.

Well there's a lot of stuff you could talk about there.

So.

What I'm looking for though is a specific verse to examine because off the top of my head I'm not sure so if we could look at a specific verse if I do the nations like the word nations there is in verse 1 of chapter 46 that which came as the word of the Lord to Jeremiah the prophet concerning the nations.

And.

The nations have heard of your shame and the earth is full of the cry of distress. I'll make an end of all the nations. So I'm not exactly sure which verse talks about the law.

Yeah you're sorry I didn't. Well it doesn't mention the law specifically but it says I'm going to destroy you for worshiping other gods and it mentions their sins and all of that and so it seems like they must have known what the law was.

Or.

Why is he destroying them. Because he does this with a whole bunch of nations, he does this with Judah and we know that the best of course because he talks about that the most but he does this with Syria.

He's going to do this with Babylon as well later on in the book of Daniel but he does this with Syria, Egypt and all of the nations around Israel as well.

Yes.

There's a couple things to talk about here, one is that God has his way of communicating to those nations various things before the judgment of God is upon them. We see this exemplified by the prophets going to varying nations in the Old Testament warning them things like that and then they're judged.

Remember when Moses said it to Pharaoh for example and the judgment came. So I would look in history to see if it's not specifically in scripture but a lot of times it's recorded elsewhere that this is what was going on.

That's just looking at that. But there's also something which I think is interesting in 1 Corinthians 4 .4. It's a concept there, Paul says for I am conscious of nothing against myself yet I'm not by this acquitted.

He's not aware of anything that he's done wrong. But that doesn't make.

Him okay.

Because the one who judges him is the devil.

The devil, goodness.

Is the Lord.

And.

So what he's saying is I'm not conscious of what I've done, just because you're ignorant doesn't excuse you and that's the point. So the nations are under the Adamic representation, the Adamic covenant but all people in Adam are obligated to do certain things plus the law of God's written on their hearts so they're without excuse, Romans chapter 2 talks about this Romans 1 and 2 and so that's what I would, first thing I'd look at on the 30 ,000 foot level and then look into the text particularly to see what's going on in that context, I can't do it right now over the air because.

You make a good point. He did send Jeremiah to those nations, I forgot about that, he sent him completely to those nations. I don't know if he sent anybody to Canaan and he definitely punishes the Canaanites for their sacrificing of babies and their idolatry and all that but in what we're talking about, I forgot, he sent Jeremiah specifically to specific nations, he sent him to Jeremiah and all that, I forgot about that.

Sometimes.

You can get bogged down reading everything he says to the prophets.

Yep, and they called Jeremiah the weeping prophet and that he was the worst evangelist because he got so few converts, that kind of a thing but he was called by God to go proclaim and he did and people didn't repent and judgment came.

So yep, there you go buddy.

Yeah, it's very eye-opening reading the prophets, anyway, I'll let you go. Thank you for answering my questions and for doing Matt Slick Live.