Most Men Cave . . . Jesus Didn’t

Conversations That Matter

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Hey everyone, welcome to the conversations that matter podcast as you can see I have Some books behind me if you're watching

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I am in my study. It's not complete yet I won't show you the rest of it because it's kind of messy

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But I appreciate your patience with me as I have not been able to put out Content as regularly, but I think starting next week, even though I have a lot more to do

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At least my office will be set up I'll be able to have higher quality podcasts and more of them and I know

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I got a backlog I know many of you are waiting for book reviews and you've some of you have Requested that I talk about certain things.

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I haven't yet. So I'm gonna try to get to it as I can But but but this is kind of what's been going on in my life

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One of the things I'll mention though. I did happen to go out a very enjoyable I haven't done this in a very long time, but an enjoyable camp out just one one night and then we went hiking yesterday and It was a needed slight break from all the other stuff

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I've been working on and The conversation came up with some people about those who said that they would not

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Take the experimental treatment that they you know, weren't we're never gonna do that But then when the going got tough meaning their income was gonna be hit

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They would have to enjoy a lower standard of living They decided to make a different choice and to go ahead and get it and it's discouraging for some people

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Do you want to see principled leaders? especially but even just friends print principled people and they don't see it and And this kind of thing sparked a conversation about hey, what was it like?

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when tyranny was much worse in the 20th century in certain areas of the world taking

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Germany, for instance and You know what happened during the beginning of the Nuremberg laws?

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Why do people cave and and one of the things that I think is important to remember is that that that is human nature?

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It is human nature to cave humans will choose security and they'll choose tyranny even over Liberty often because They don't sometimes it's something as trivial trivial as they don't want to enjoy a lower standard of living other times there's real threats to themselves or their family or others that they love and they

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Think that that's the thing they need to do to somehow protect And and maybe they talk big, you know, a lot of people talk big when there's really not a sacrifice yet to be made we're

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Really? It's human nature to be like Peter to say I'll never deny you Lord and then the cock crows three times

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And so we should expect this. This is not to be a downer, but we should expect this This is human nature and and Christianity teaches this right that Christianity teaches that man is mired in sin depraved weak all these these things and that's why we need

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Jesus because we we have a propensity to break God's commands and to be hypocrites and to go back on our word and to choose evil over good and so So in this case, and I don't want to just focus on the current situation, but on the tyranny that's on the horizon

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Maybe even even some other choices that have had to be made in work circumstances or in church circumstances or wherever where there there was a kind of a fighting spirit in private, but then caving when the going got tough

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I think we need some Encouragement on this. So what I'm gonna do is

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I'm gonna read for you something. This this isn't necessarily encouraging This is drive some of the point I already made but I'm gonna read for you something

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That's very short. It's a book review that I did on a book called ordinary men and I'll explain why and then let's talk about a little bit about Jesus.

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Let's talk about the gospel and and who Jesus was and why what why right now those who shine bright and emulate

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Jesus and have Steel spines and are willing to suffer

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Sacrifice for the people they love and the things they believe why those people really do stand out why those are the leaders we really do need to look to and we need to Even if someone's not well -spoken, even if someone has other weaknesses if they're simply willing to take a stand

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They may be even wrong about some things They might not have it all together none of us do but if they have bravery if they have a willingness to stand up for what they believe in and They're they're shooting in the right direction, you know, they they they're

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Orthodox they in their theology they Understand it basically the issues that are at play right now.

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They need support and And we need to Be careful about trusting people that haven't had to make those sacrifices.

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I'm not saying not to trust them I'm not saying not to follow people, but I'm just saying those who really have made true sacrifices

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And and I'm not talking about people who talk about their sacrifices every five minutes I mean those who really have made sacrifices believe in what they've done that that it's the right thing

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Their conscience is clear. They can sleep at night And and they just look for the next thing that God has for him

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Those are the people we need to identify right now kind of gather around because I think times are about to get harder and you're gonna need a

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Tree that's got roots that are planted deep by the streams of water Not someone to and toss to and fro by every wind of doctor and not someone who hasn't had to really suffer and isn't tested

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So let me read for you This short I'll skim some of this this short

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Book review. I did the book is called ordinary men The pull reserve police battalion 101 and the final solution in Poland is a subtitle

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I did this for a World War two class that I was in actually it was a Holocaust class at a whole class on the Holocaust and most academic treatments on the

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Holocaust focus on either Jewish victims or mastermind perpetrators Inhabiting the upper echelons of the

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Nazi hierarchy. This book is different though this one Focuses on the ordinary men in the reserve police battalion 101

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During the final solution in Poland, it's it's written by Christopher Browning and so he finds primary sources on What happened in in this particular division

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It's a narrative I would recommend the book it's disturbing so just it's a Holocaust but just realize that it's very disturbing but the story takes place between June 1942 in the end of 1943

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And at least 38 ,000 Jews were shot during this time this time Not by the

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Gestapo, but by a mixture of common volunteers conscripts and policemen mostly from Hamburg and Most of whom were not

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Nazi Party members So these are ordinary men. These aren't these horrible inhuman villains that we often think of as you know, those were the

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Nazis and they were men too But these were really ordinary men they knew what it was like before Nazi rule or without Nazi rule and they

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They they weren't as brainwashed and they went through with this arch crime They were not prepared for the task before them which included assisting in Deportations in addition to killing

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Jewish men women and children in Polish towns the typical procedure Involved lining victims up in the woods often in front of pits that served as pre -made mass graves and ordering their summary

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Executions and some of the things I'm about to read are disturbing. So if you have kids, I just want to warn you here 10 to 20 percent of those actually assigned to the firing squads

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The author estimates were executed from participating based upon moral qualms or physical inability

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So in other words 80 to 90 percent did not have these qualms. They just went through with it

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Think about that ordinary people most of them just went through with this Many officers recognized the difficulty of carrying out such a task a major Wilhelm Trapp a 53 year old career policeman

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Was pale and nervous with a choking voice and tears in his eyes When he gave the execution order

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He later remarked to his driver if this Jewish business is ever avenged on earth and have mercy on us

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Germans So there were people who recognized what I'm doing is wrong But here's how it was dealt with how these guilty consciences were

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Somehow alleviated Temporarily in order to ease the consciousness of men many of whom had families and worked in public services before the war

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Generous quantities of alcohol were provided during a particularly horrific pogrom in which an addition in addition to max

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Executions 700 Jews were burned alive in a synagogue as police shot anyone trying to escape

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Major waste who oversaw the operation was found drunk Others developed hardened consciences and elaborated

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Rationalizations for instance a 35 year old metal worker from Bremerhaven Stated I made the effort and it was possible for me to shoot only children

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Because I reasoned with myself that after all without its mother the child could not live any longer

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So he thought he was doing the right thing. He actually rationalized what he was doing Still the shooting of infants and small children was avoided avoided by almost all the men involved

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Browning struggles to explain and their situations like this I don't think I wrote it down where You know

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You'd have a line of people and they would the firing squad would shoot and no one would die it would like the bullets went over everyone said they have to do it again because of sometimes these these unwillingness to do this

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Browning struggles to explain how men who had known political standards and moral norms Other than those of the

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Nazis could act in such barbarous way So eventually, I mean even in those situations eventually they did carry these these crimes out

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Drawing from psychological categories and research the author considers weather group dynamics battlefield frenzy and bonds of loyalty contributed to the 125th actions going where most historians dare not tread

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Browning includes extensive analysis of a study in obedience by Stanley Milgram and A prison experiment by Philip Zabardo He concludes with a serious but dismal warning on the last sentence of the book and this is the author who studied this is what?

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Within virtually every social collective the peer group exerts tremendous pressure on behavior and sets the moral norms if the men of the reserve police battalion 101

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Could become killers under such circumstances what group of men? Cannot and that's the question if these ordinary people this is what this is what surprised him of these ordinary people

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Could become these these killers then then Who who isn't like that?

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That's right, that's human nature Ordinary men is more than a historical narrative is more.

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All right. So anyway, I get into some other stuff Actually Browning even acknowledges total depravity in the book

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I don't think he's a Christian the Holocaust took place because at the most basic level Individual human beings killed other human beings in large numbers over an extended period of time.

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That's his thesis So here's the thing. Here's the takeaway. Why do I bring this all up? We should not be surprised

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When people are weak when people go back on their words when people don't stand up to the evil in front of them and then when people actually participate it people that are ordinary people that We we would not expect that to the people even who would disagree with it if they really probably thought through it

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But people go along with the crowd they go along with what they're forced to do they go along with what's gonna be beneficial for them and their family and And this is human nature now, where does the gospel come in well

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Jesus is the only perfect human in all of history

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The God man Jesus Christ hundred percent God hundred percent man obeyed a hundred percent suffered more than any other human and Did so knowing that there was a higher purpose for the joy set before him.

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He endured the cross Despising the shame is now seated. It now is seated at the right hand of the throne of God He is the quintessential hero the one who never wavered who never caved many of the people in the 101 ended up even eat later and at the 70s committing suicide having

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Nightmares never talking about it having such a horrible time with some of the things they did others had heart and consciences but Jesus He never wavered one bit he never caved and so What he did he could be a hundred percent proud in just think about that for yourself

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I have being being proud of something a hundred percent You know You did the right thing and you suffered consequences you you suffered the scorn of everyone else even the people who should have

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Never let you down you would have thought I mean the religious leaders of Jesus's day were the ones behind The arch crime of human history if you think about it his own disciples

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Falling asleep on him and then running and scattering being denying him even this is this is what he went through and He did not have anyone to lean on he went through it alone.

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I mean Father even turned his back on him. Think of that. Think of think of what he went through and he came out the triumphant hero

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And that's an inspiration and I think every hero that we can look to that the stories that we have even the myths

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Are there they're they're kind of in a very crude way trying to copy this perfect example of what heroism is

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But in our culture today, we've killed that we've killed people with internal virtue. We take down their monuments

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We we don't want to recognize them at all They're they're not the people that deserve recognition

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The people that deserve recognition are those who go along with what the central authority says is for the common good and And that this is just a recipe for tyranny those who behave so That's the world we're living in now and it is a scary place to be and it is hard when you watch

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I mean I can think of even people I know that I'm thinking now Okay, you know what if we were in different circumstances

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They would if we were in Nazi Germany, they would be the ones reporting on Someone who would be hiding

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Jews or something? They would do that and I could see him doing that they would verbally say they'd never do it

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But I can see now from the the little bit of testing that's going on right in front of us

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We can identify some of those people Maybe you even look in your own heart and you're wondering where am

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I at? And this is the time to be brave This is time to pray it's time to draw on the strength of the Lord And this is the time to say, you know what?

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I got some lines. Let me let me These are my convictions. Let me stand there and let me not waver.

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Let me not go past those lines We need to be before we have this the tyranny pressed upon us.

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We need to know what we'll do how far we'll go We need to already have that thought out and decided in our minds

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So that our consciences are clear and that we can do the right thing before God so Anyway, yeah,

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I hope that's helpful. That's practical. That's where we're at I hope you're gravitating towards people of like mind who have bravery who have these kind of virtues and And and stick with them because I think times are gonna get a lot tougher so Good book to read.

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It's kind of a downer in a way, but it really proves the The weakness of men and in fact,

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I saw this is after I read it I saw Jordan Peterson in a video online recommending this book Basically saying that look all these people who say oh,

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I would never have gone along with that. I would never be a Nazi I'd never said yes, you would the vast majority of people do that's just the reality of the situation

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That's that's how people are. So don't let it surprise you just like I said know where you stand to stand with the people that are that that you have identified already as those willing to suffer and sacrifice for the right thing and And and then trust in the

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Lord, that's all we can do and and and you know what we were born for such a time

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Is this God puts you right where he wants you? Exactly where he wants you for what's about to take place and what is taking place and he didn't make a mistake

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So I hope you find a little encouragement in that at least And I hope this was a helpful little video.