September 9, 2021 Show with Bill Potter on “The First Thanksgiving: Separating Fact from Fiction”

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27, verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have a view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

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Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida. And the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Thursday on this ninth day of September 2021.

And I am so thrilled to have back on the program someone who I absolutely loved interviewing the last time he was on, who was very strongly recommended by my dear friend, Dr. Joseph C. Moorcraft III. And I am speaking of Bill Potter, who is a historian and an author.

And I am really looking forward to addressing the topic we have at hand today. Today we are going to be addressing something that should not be controversial, but over the years has become a matter of dispute, largely because of the attacks on everything that Americans hold sacred by the left.

Today we're going to be addressing the first Thanksgiving, separating fact from fiction, preparing in advance of the holiday to accurately respond to those perpetuating myths and fallacies. And our guest, Bill Potter, who received his B .A. from Cedarville College and his M .A. from the University of Dayton and his Ph .D. from the College of William and Mary.

He is also the chief historian for Landmark Events. And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sherpa's Iron Radio, Bill Potter. Sorry, I had you on mute there for a second. Bill, before we go on to the subject at hand, tell our listeners about Landmark Events.

Landmark Events is a company that sponsors historical events of occurrence, both great and small, each from a biblical, providential landmark event. A huge response when I was raising my children on history tours.

But we provide and go online.

Great. Well, that website for Landmark Events is LandmarkEvents .org, LandmarkEvents .org. The first Thanksgiving has been really attacked as of late. Well, it's actually started being attacked some time ago, but it just seems to be more vocal in the media these days.

First of all, why is it important, do you believe, that we have an accurate understanding of the first Thanksgiving and how this celebration began?

Thanksgiving is used as the template for making it a national holiday. The great celebrant, they held a Thanksgiving at Berkeley Plantation. England and New England were particularly poignant. Plymouth and later colonies as well.

100th anniversary back in 1920. It was involved in that. Who did not understand and know about the pilgrims and their biblical worldview today, that is not the case. For 18 years, and then if they go to college, it's in law.

It really begins in a dramatic way with these settlers in Plymouth, Massachusetts.

So tell us exactly what the circumstances were at that first Thanksgiving, who were in attendance, and let's also separate some of the facts from fiction as we continue on through the discussion.

They did not understand who they were. People that had not gone quite far enough. Biblical forming of the church, kinds of separate congregation, was like the reading of prayer. They believed that the church had not reformed quite enough.

They paid fines. If you did not attend Church of England churches, England was not going to succeed, and they did not want to wait. They gave up on them. And so they were harried out of the land. They had connections to John Robinson among the Calvinist Dutch, and so they moved their congregation and eventually ended up in Leiden in Holland.

And the congregation reached about 300 problems, would call the regulative, to get together and make that perilous journey into the wilderness, landing in Plymouth. They called the fact that none of them actually died on the voyage.

They were being watched by men who would not want them there, tribes that lived in the neighborhood who gave them November of itself. It was a three-day feast, and they brought loads and loads of venison with them.

A great, great...

Was it just that one Indian tribe that gathered with the pilgrims for that celebration?

Can you repeat that? I didn't catch the first part of what you said.

Was it only the one Indian tribe, Native American tribe?

Oh, yeah. Well, there were a number of major tribes in New England at the time, and the one that they had landed, the place where they landed, but it was fresh water and small clans. It was south of Plymouth.

There were smaller divisions, warriors with them, when they came to visit on that Thanksgiving, punishing malefacts, local natives.

Amen.

So 50 years of their... It was wonderful. And during those years, a number of the natives worked. One of the goals that was stated in there was stated in the Mayflower Compact that they had signed a board ship.

They were north of Virginia. They created their own little self-government through the Mayflower Compact, and they kept presenting. And by all they did, it's estimated there are 30 million people in the United States today that are descended from the 102 members of the Mayflower.

And can you remind me of the year of the actual first Thanksgiving celebration and the date, for that matter, if you have that?

Yeah, they had one of their ships, and they actually didn't get underway until a month after, further and further into the harbor and landed at...

Great. And do you have the exact three dates of that feast?

They changed the calendar in 1725.

Well, you can look that up while we go to our first break. We have to go to our first break now.

Yeah, I guess I'll have to.

If anybody wants to join us on the air with a question about the very first Thanksgiving as we rapidly approach the 400th anniversary of that three-day feast, our e-mail address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com, C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com.

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Hello, dear ones. My name is Justin Peters, and my friend, Chris Arnzen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, and I are frequently blessed to share great times of fellowship with one another at conferences all over the United States.

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Welcome back, this is Chris Arnzen, if you just tuned us in. Our guest today for the entire program is historian Bill Potter. We are addressing the very first Thanksgiving and if you have questions on this topic as we approach the 400th anniversary of the first Thanksgiving our email address is chrisarnzen at gmail .com.

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Bill, I believe you were hunting for those three exact dates in November.

Well, people have been hunting for. What we know for sure is it was held somewhere between September 21st and I guess a true state official national holiday.

Now, how did the Pilgrims and the Native Americans that were present at this three-day feast, how did they overcome the language barrier? Were they bilingual? Had they both learned the other's language by that point?

Or how did that work itself out?

Well, this was one of the... A universal language! So they didn't have any to offer him but they found out that this particular native abbreviated his name, some English native, and he was put together with the Wampanoags.

They had... that was early on and Thanksgiving is going to be... They did have these... and they were the intermediaries and they did a... doing that. And then as time went on, made it a point to learn the local languages because they spoke to them in their own language and to translate the Bible.

Eventually in 1820, 1830, and 1640 America had established the Massachusetts Bay Colony. There were several men who learned the native tongues. The leaders were there to communicate. Squando was the one that was more... in any case, they had two men.

He came to the Thanksgiving feast, he brought over 90...

So I'm assuming then the prayer was quite long by the pilgrims. Just out of curiosity, and I'm sure this is on the minds of many, as far as the food that was eaten, prepared, cooked, served, eaten at that table during those three days of feasting, how different was it than what we normally experience today?

Well, at least in most places, I know that there's a variety of ways people celebrate Thanksgiving. The Italians that I know celebrate it quite differently. But, you know, turkey and stuffing and corn on the cob and mashed potatoes, all those things.

So you already said venison. I love venison.

Yeah, we do know a little bit. We do know a little bit about what they had. Governor Bradford supplied water from...

Oh, so there was turkey at the Thanksgiving dinner, the first.

Yes, uh-huh.

I wish I could find somebody's house to crash during Thanksgiving that had this venison, because I love venison.

Oh, well, come on down. Oh, yeah? What they normally had, but eventually they... And beans, a celebration they did. And they had a Thanksgiving celebration. Thanks unto the Lord. Psalms. Quoting constantly.

They probably also typically had their weapons there. Part of their... Whether they put out tables, you know, all the artwork. So it's very well.

Grady in Asheboro, North Carolina, our guest Bill Potter stole your thunder and already answered your question, so if you want to send in another one. Grady was asking if the Pilgrims had brought from England and Holland a Thanksgiving celebration that was already being conducted before they arrived on the...

Yeah, they did have Thanksgiving traditions.

Well, thanks, Grady, and try to submit another question so we don't have to have a duplicate there. We're going to go to our midway break, actually. It's the longer break than normal, folks, so please be patient with us.

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I'm James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries. My friend Chris Arnzen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, and I are headed down to Atlanta, Georgia once again for the G3 conference. This year's G3 will be held Thursday, September 30th, through Saturday, October 2nd on the theme Christ is Supreme Over All.

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