September 8, 2017 Show with Costi Hinn on “From Word of Faith Heresy to Sovereign Grace Truth: The Testimony of an Apple that Did Fall Very Far Away From the Tree”

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

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scholars and theologians Address the burning issues facing the church and the world

today.

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron so one

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour.

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Now here's our host Chris.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania.

Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at iron

sharpens iron radio .com.

This is Chris Arns and your host of iron sharpens iron radio wishing you all a happy Friday on this 8th day of

September 2017 and I am so excited about today's interview.

It's a first -time guest who has a last name that I'm sure everyone in this

listening audience has recognized or will recognize.

Perhaps not for very good reasons.

But we have on the program today for the very first time Kosti Hinn that's H I

NN who is nephew of renowned word -of -faith leader Benny Hinn and

Today he is an associate pastor of adult ministries at Mission Bible

Church of Tustin, California.

Today we are going to be addressing the theme from word -of -faith heresy to sovereign grace truth.

The testimony of an apple that did fall very far away from the tree.

And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time ever to iron sharpens iron radio Kosti

Hinn.

Thank you so much Chris, I really appreciate you having me on all the pleasure is all mine and.

We have two co -hosts today.

We have on the phone serving as co -host.

I believe for the first time he's serving as co -host.

But he's been a guest on iron sharpens iron radio many times.

John Sampson who is an author and pastor of Kings Church in Peoria, Arizona.

It's great to have you back on the program pastor John.

It's great to be with you guys.

I'm looking forward to all that.

We'll be able to talk about very important stuff.

Amen, and in studio with me is the reverend buzz Taylor my usual co -host and it's great to

be here today.

Once again, and it's good to meet you you guys.

It's interesting that all three folks here that are joining me on this

program have considerable backgrounds in the

Pentecostal charismatic movement Kosti Hinn and John

Sampson being formally involved in the word -of -faith movement very heavily.

In fact, John Sampson as many of you who listen regularly to Iron sharpens iron

radio will remember that John Sampson before coming to the doctrines of Sovereign Grace and becoming a Reformed

Baptist pastor.

Was not only a word -of -faith pastor, but was a word -of -faith television host on the TBN network.

And God had mercy upon him and delivered him from that and Of

course Kosti Hinn our guest today who is the nephew of Benny Hinn? was heavily

heavily involved in that movement as well.

And I'd like to first of all give our audience the email address where they can

send in questions of their own.

It's Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

C -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com.

And please give us at least your first name your city and state in your country of residence.

If you live outside the USA, please only remain completely anonymous if it is about a personal and private

matter.

Over which you are asking perhaps you are in a word -of -faith truth of word -of -faith Church, and you

are beginning to doubt.

Or have questions about the teachings there and you don't want to identify yourself publicly at this

stage of the game.

Well, I understand that completely you may remain anonymous or for any other reason that compels you to remain anonymous.

We will accept that and and grant your request other than that.

They'll please give us at least your first name city and state and country of residence Kosti.

Before we go into your own background your the religion of your youth your

upbringing and so on I'd like for you to tell our listeners about Mission Bible.

Church of Tustin, California.

Yeah, thanks.

We are a church located right in the heart

of ornology.

You and I have joked before we're pretty millennial if that

matters.

We're gonna talk about more

serious amazing

teaching pastor.

Pastor Anthony would.

He is a brother a friend one of my best friends on this whole earth and he's actually the pastor

today and The church is growing.

We have a deep conviction and nothing

else much younger.

It's a lot more of a rarer thing and we are just so church here.

Lots of families a lot of a lot of babies being born in our church.

So that's fun.

That's the number one way to grow a church, by the way, everybody just keeps having babies.

And so lots of family and just very

thankful thankful for my role to be a part of that church and for the people that I Serve

with a

blog as well.

Oh my pleasure.

And one thing I find interesting is that you will have I have found a.

Number of Charismatic or Pentecostal pastors or

just Christians in general who when they discover the doctrines of sovereign grace or

reform theology or Calvinism.

However, you want to phrase it?

They do at times.

Become cessationists.

They leave everything that is uniquely Charismatic or Pentecostal behind them

when they come to the doctrines of grace, but there are also quite a number maybe even

more who while embracing a new theology in regard to

God's sovereignty They retain their charismatic beliefs and they are not

cessationists.

Their continuationists are continuous.

What how would you describe?

The church there where you are pastoring or co -pastoring Mission Bible Church of Tustin, California.

In that regard we are.

Cessationist and we out of the charismatic movement and

from even open but cautious a Continued constant

membership class or a new incoming members

thing.

Do you guys not believe that God does miracles?

Do you

not believe God

heals.

We find

ourselves

we recognize hospital

of their gospel message and off we go.

We often have he

can do

what

he wants.

Be

some

of

you

guys

even

known

people who

get.

And by

the way.

No need to apologize about your pre -millennialism, even though I'm not pre millennial.

Some of my greatest heroes of the faith were like Charles Spurgeon and Andrew Andrew Bonar

and his brother Horatius Bonar.

So there are a lot of John MacArthur.

You could go on and on.

With my heroes who are pre -millennial.

So I have to apologize about that.

In fact, it's interesting that our confessions of faith.

I'm sorry, brother.

I just want to say that Charles

Spurgeon was pre -millennial, but now he's met Jesus as he has changed.

And The it's interesting that our confessions of faith all of the Reformed confessions

Whether it be the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith or the Westminster or the three forms of unity

the specifics of eschatology that would separate pre mill post millennial aren't there.

They just insist that you believe in the visible physical Return

of Christ at the end of civilization and so on on earth that

is and but we are going to be talking about a lot of things involving

your journey Kosti.

And If you could start with your childhood.

What kind of faith or religion you were raised in if any?

I'm not certain when you eventually came to be a participant in your uncle Benny

Hinn's theology, and I'm not even sure when he Truly

became immersed if not a leader in the word of faith movement, but if you could start with yourself.

In your own upbringing.

Yeah, I grew up in a in a home where my

dad is and I grew

up.

I call it gospel plus because we had a really clear understanding of the gospel.

Redemption what Christ did his atoning sacrifice and then the plus part is.

You know, yeah, there's all that about Christ and the gospel, but then there's this John 10 10 abundant life

parentheses now thing and That abundant life.

Yeah, sure.

But there's that if you tap into it you can start living heaven

on earth and so that was a My childhood in a nutshell my parents

to be honest with you.

As an adult man now in ministry with all that's gone on with with.

With some of the interviews and different stuff I've written and done I've had some good conversations with my parents in

the past.

I would say a year and a half to two years and They've they've asked a lot of questions and I've asked a lot of questions

and together.

We've we've been walking together as is

biblically and hang out and you know, I kick back with all the false

teachers.

But for purposed evangelism a lot of my family members who

aren't necessarily false teachers, but have been in the movement they've been really clear about my childhood all of our childhood, which was

we followed what we were taught and My parents that doesn't let anyone off the hook,

right?

But it does explain to people that are listening kind of what what we believed in where we came from.

My dad is by no stretch of the imagination a theologian a lot of the times we received

books and material from Uncle Benny from those other

assemblies of God denomination up in Canada that were gleaning from some of the wild excesses

and.

So that material was inundating our church and Basically, you know looking back my

dad and my mom had an opportunity to grow a church based on the circle they were in and so

they chose to after nights

to remember a

Olive oil a lot of the time

to anoint everybody to

those like Kenneth Copeland at Hagen's he

was by being.

But God existed for me.

That was the way you give to

get holy man.

Who's anointed not the first Timothy 3.

We ought to respect our leaders.

So but it was taken to the nth degree in that any challenge was viewed as touching the

Lord's anointed.

You could not question you could not push back.

You could not hold any any

of my family members would ever

admit it that way

Revered as revered outside of our circle as he was.

It's interesting that you used that phrase that you viewed yourself as a royal family.

Because I have heard word of faith.

Pentecostal.

Talkshow hosts and pastors Use that kind of phraseology in general

For those who are believers in the word of faith.

And I can even remember a friend of mine who?

Because of his his business that he owns which is an alarm

company alarms and All kinds of protection devices for your

business your place of business Surveillance cameras and all that kind of thing.

He developed a friendship with one of the most notorious

Word -of -faith Pentecostals on Long Island, New York and He's he's

pretty much globally known this individual and they have become friends.

In fact, I think they're still friends he now he He views this person as a Part

of a mission field because he views him as somebody that needs to be saved.

This is my friend.

Because when he first met this pastor, he was not a Christian, but he was invited to this

pastor's birthday party and He comes to the birthday party

and there is a stripper there and He was shocked.

My friend was shocked and he said to this minister How on earth can you have a stripper here, this

is really disturbing you're supposed to be a man of God a minister and The pastor's

response was I'm a child of the king.

I'm a prince.

I could do whatever I want to do and Ironically, I have another friend

who was a member before he became Spiritually enlightened and he

left that same pastors congregation.

I have a friend who was raised in that church and His wife was invited to a

bridal shower that that pastor's wife was having for a member of the church.

And there was a male stripper there I mean This I don't know if this kind of thing was going on in your

circles because I know that you can't use a cookie -cutter Approach to these things, but there seems to be

a pride and arrogance and a sense of entitlement that some folks in this

Theological spectrum Demonstrate is this anything is this totally foreign to your experience or is this something that

sounds familiar to you?

It sounds familiar.

We didn't have growing up.

My parents were very very strict.

And so if you think of the the legalistic I

mean we were.

No one wore earrings.

My mom would take the hearings out of my sister's ears when we went to other churches certain places.

I mean my direct and so

My wife can tell.

She can tell you that I mrs. In growing and I mrs. In.

Growing together the shock for her was Not necessarily what you

described at some of those those events.

But for for her she was shocked how we did do whatever we wanted

and we thought we could do whatever we wanted.

So again, there were certain you said you can't be cookie cutter.

There were certain boundaries that we had.

It's like an honest beef, right?

So we didn't necessarily go wild with certain types of parties but

we Did what we wanted with the offerings?

We Work if we didn't want to we didn't show up to the church office if we didn't want to we decided to

go on a seven Day vacation.

We would just go.

You'd spend whatever money you want.

You could start a fundraiser anytime.

You just go preach and you tell people that God told you there's an anointing for gifts of a

thousand dollars $1 ,000 and to receive a special anointing and.

And so again, I call it an honest beef because while it wasn't over in

like you described it was very much Manipulation and greed.

What sin is sin in that regard?

It was working itself out just in other ways and when my wife came along in my life I

think

that

was one

of

the

biggest

shop Abish

lifestyle

game a

whack -a -mole

just

lust that that's

not

anointed.

Everybody did the cleaner.

Yeah.

Well what you said truly?

Rings a bell with me because I have been in the radio advertising business

since the mid 80s and in the Christian radio business nearly as

long.

And it is at least in the New York area.

I'm not sure if this is a nationwide phenomenon.

But in the New York area it is notorious amongst

account executives in Christian radio stations that they know if there is a word

-of -faith Pentecostal pastor around or if he's having an event.

That you usually could sell that person advertising without a delay without waiting because

if that pastor wants to spend Thousands of dollars on an ad campaign.

He doesn't he doesn't need to submit to the vote of a board or even have a discussion with a

board he just said yeah, sure and He'll just take a fistful of cash and pay it

and.

But this is another irony.

Is that they also this group these word -of -faith churches and Pentecostals?

I did not succumb to that temptation.

They were not among my clients, but The station would often be racked

with Unpaid bills because that these Ministries and

churches very often would not pay the entire amount that they owe.

They might pay the down payment that was required to get the ad campaign rolling but then that would the payments would stop

and then they would wind up not being paid for the entirety of what they Purchased so

that was another blemish upon What they were doing obviously.

When we come back from the break we're going to our first break now this is going to be it's always difficult pastor John Sampson

when I have a Co -host on the phone because I can't see you.

I can't see you waving to me wanting to ask a question or something.

So Just keep in mind that you can chime in anytime that you see an opening or hear an

opening.

Where you have a question that you want to pose for Kosti as long as you're not jumping on his

words while he's still speaking.

Just chime in any time you want and I might as well give you the opportunity to ask a question of Kosti when we return from the break.

So if anybody else would like to join us with a question, and we already have some people Waiting to have their questions asked and answered by

Kosti.

Our email address again is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name at least your city and state and your country of residence if you live outside of the good old

USA don't go away.

We'll be right back with Kosti Hinn and his testimony of leaving the word of faith movement.

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a pastor.

Welcome back.

This is Chris Arnzen.

If you just tuned us in our guest today for the full two hours with about 90 minutes to go is Kosti Hinn

nephew of renowned Word of Faith leader Benny Hinn.

He's an associate pastor of adult ministries at Mission Bible Church of Tustin, California.

And today we are addressing from Word of Faith heresy to Sovereign Grace truth the testimony of an

apple that did fall very far away from the tree.

And we have also co -hosting the program today a Pastor John Sampson of King's Church in

Peoria, Arizona.

Also a former Word of Faith Pentecostal who we've had on this program many times and in studio with me is

the Reverend Buzz Taylor.

My normal co -host if you'd like to join us on the air our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

And we do have a question from one of my co -hosts Pastor John Sampson of King's Church in

Peoria, Arizona.

Yes, hi Kosti, it's great to talk with you again, I'm sure you agree that

amongst what we call Pentecostal and Charismatics, there's

a wide range of theologies.

Oftentimes the church that is Distinguished that way would maybe

or maybe not have sound biblical theology about God.

About Who Jesus is you can find some very good material there.

But you can also find very strange and heretical material when we're talking about the Word of Faith.

What would you say are the distinctives when we move from the lavish lifestyle you

described to looking at?

What is the root of the teaching?

How do we define it?

What would they?

Define God as Jesus as the gospel as in the

Word of Faith, and I'm interested in your answer.

That's an excellent question because you can have people who are Theologically very Orthodox, but who also

live lavish lifestyles when their congregation is On the border of starvation,

you know, they're not living even according to the average Lifestyle of the person in the church,

but if you could that's an excellent question Kosti.

Yeah, absolutely, I like that you brought up Doctrine because

it really a man's lavish lifestyle.

It might be an indicator of some things.

But it is not an indicator of the main thing and the main thing is in these Word of Faith churches.

You're gonna have ethical teaching on The deity

of Christ and so this goes back to first century if anybody is interested at all I hope people are

at some point.

I mean, I know we've got a lot of history is rich with evidence.

That from the earliest times in the early church the deity of Christ was assaulted and

so you'll hear things like Jesus did his miracles lived died

as a Sinless man not as God.

He came down and just became a man and therefore.

That's why we can do all these things too.

We can do miracles in this lives too.

We can the great Greatest leaders and I don't

mean that in a good sense.

I mean just great in his scale his scope.

He's one of the highest top greatest leaders in the Word of Faith movement learned everything from Kenneth Hagan.

He said

we're in that

whole

circle

as well at

his

baptism

when

the dove came

to

the

father.

Oh,

yeah,

it's.

Yeah, that's that's disturbing.

That's even more deadly a sin than any of the other uniquely

charismatic or Pentecostal attachments to this Word of Faith movement that that is.

A.

Damnable truly damnable unquestionably damnable teaching.

Yeah, yeah, I wanted to say one of the reasons I was I stayed in the movement so long was

there was no central headquarters that was reviewing what I believed and taught

that I had to answer to and I remember coming to the United States from a Word of Faith

background in England and Discussed the subject of what happened from the cross

to the throne Which is one of the cardinal doctrines of the Word of Faith.

Kenneth Copeland and others have outlined some very Heretical material in that

realm and I remember asking another Word of Faith pastor What he thought about the issue and

about some of Copeland's statements and he just said well, he's just a jerk in that

area and I was just amazed that he could have the freedom to say that and he says

yeah I don't buy that at all.

And I thought oh, so I don't have to believe that To be in the Word of Faith.

I can just say he's out to lunch in that area and that allowed me to stay even though I

I believe I had an orthodox understanding of the cross at that point.

Do you see that in your Looking at the whole movement that there are people that

Just way out to lunch and not everybody in the movement embraces every statement of some of these heretical

teachers.

Absolutely, I actually just sat with a friend recently he's a

professor now at a seminary out in California out here, but back in the 70s

and the 80s he was friends with John Wimber and He shared with me, you know,

obviously I'm not going to name his name.

But he shared with me a conversation that he had because I asked him, you know, I've read some of John Wimber's

material I've listened to some of his sermons.

I've studied him and He walked out of and John you you'll notice because

you're again involved like I was a kid at the time.

But he walked in the

wild teachings and

vineyard pastors who

got up when there was he was a

part of it.

I never meant for it to I never meant for it to go this far.

I just wanted to pray for people.

I mean, I have my positions on the gift and the thought people would actually think in

at night and

he would

say, you know.

That guy's

crazy.

And if my dad got older even he started thinking, you know I don't want to be involved with all the wild stuff

kind of be in the movement.

But not even know what everybody believes you don't necessarily believe what everybody

believes or teaches what they all teach but X and balances.

There's no account of it yet and that's

dangerous because she'd need to be led with clarity.

Now how prevalent though?

To the ask the reverse question how prevalent is that?

Nearly.

Aryan teaching of Christ.

At least while he was on earth they believed he was merely a born -again man.

That I have heard Kenneth Copeland and others describe

Christ's death on Calvary in in a most blasphemous and grotesque way that he

actually became a demonic entity on Calvary when they

they totally and grotesquely twist that he became sin on our behalf

and to meaning that he actually became a demon.

And I have heard that.

They will even use as a biblical proof Moses is Raising up the bronze serpent

on a stick As something that pictured that.

If you could comment on that costume.

Yeah that we're gonna find that in the extreme camps that

taken never heard my dad teach that from his pulpit.

But again, we followed all of these people like John described.

You could say, you know Copeland's out to lunch on that one, but it still doesn't

negate that you're teaching everything else they teach.

And to help as well bring this into today's terms.

We talked about Copeland.

He's 80 now.

He's really old.

Wow, and he's about to go.

He's on the back end.

Let's say of his ministry.

He'll go at some point here.

But there are others like Bill Johnson and Bethel Church Chris Vallotton Todd

white the New Apostolic Reformation that crew is Teaching the exact

same thing and I've got it committed to memory Chris because I deal with a lot of young people at our church and

our adult next -generation pastors are dealing with a lot of Millennials and.

So it's page 29 of Bill Johnson's book when heaven invades earth.

I remember it.

I can see it in my mind.

He says Jesus did his miracles as a man in right relationship with God.

And he literally then says not as God there are they're attainable for us and he goes on to

express that a Christianity or we can't actually do

minds and wonders and live.

Identically

to an encounter

with God

and he lady.

He's out

music

Jesus culture now.

They also I'm when I say they I'm of course don't mean every single person Involved in that movement,

but many word of faith Pentecostals it seems.

Believe in a twisting of the Apostles Creed in reference to Jesus

Descending into hell.

I have heard the theology from word -of -faith teachers that that actually means that Jesus was

tortured by demons in hell and became the first born -again man

in hell.

Yeah, when you're claiming divine revelation and That you have

there's what Jesus and God is telling you things that no one else knows.

You can take the scriptures and you can twist them as far and As deep as you

want and that's one of those I was in services where that was taught.

Certainly that he you know He went down and he took the keys was something that was always said and there were other.

You know He went down and he was tortured and he became as we were and became dead and was

defeated and it just all these things that make zero sense and and they're.

They're derived from a from the Bible and then taken to the nth degree.

It's like a really bad topical sermon right where a guy leaps off a text and then goes 18 different

directions.

Simply because he wanted to and that's why we have to preach the word and preach the text not preach

Ourselves and then use the text to accomplish whatever we want to preach.

And so yeah, what you just described is That exact thing.

That's what's happening.

So if that helps people understand.

That's exactly what's happening.

Yeah, I went to a theatrical.

Yeah, sure.

Can I jump in and ask you a question about?

I'm imagining a word of faith guy listening in or gal Saying.

But Jesus said he who believes in me the works that I do shall he do also

and even greater works and these shall he do because I go to my father and I can almost

hear their frustration as well.

We're just taking Jesus at his word.

Why don't you and you know you and I need to Respond to that.

Because I can imagine that being in the mind of some people as they're listening in.

Jesus in John 14 said that.

What what's the problem?

I love that question.

My mom and Maybe she'll listen to this eventually.

I love you mom.

I talk a lot.

She calls herself a Berean because she's always asking me questions.

And a quick praise on that is just a month ago.

She said hey any thoughts on Sarah Young and Jesus calling and I said mom you got to be

careful.

So I explained it to her and she says alright, I'm getting rid of those books.

I want to be like a Berean and one of the things she asked me when she said I'm trying to do better.

I'm trying to learn.

I'm listening to your interviews.

I'm intrigued but Kosti what about when he said greater works.

Will you do that?

I mean, what about the greater works?

And so yeah, John and I would say two things though.

I think people will say well, there's lofty sex tension.

But first contextually he's taught when you've got John 14, and then you

jump over to John 16.

You're dealing with two chapters that mention the Holy Spirit is coming.

Jesus is going to go.

All of that contextually needs to be mentioned and understood a Jesus

isn't 17.

In

Galilee, he

certainly is

long.

You're

more people go.

I'm gonna do remarkably

amazing

things.

Take it

again about Amen

and.

What we were saying before about Jesus being tortured in hell and becoming the first

born -again man in hell according to Those in the Word of Faith movement or some

in the Word of Faith movement.

And I was at a theatrical performance at a major Christian theater

that does Broadway level productions and I saw

their Easter edition of this this theater.

And this theory group I should say and they had Jesus after his death

Being theatrically Displayed as being tied

to a chair Blindfolded as demons danced around his chair smacking him and poking him and so on.

The the other aspect that seems to be an element of their heresy

Seems to be very close to a Mormon heresy where one of the greatest

Heresies that Mormons see in Reform theology according to our confessions the

thing that they would declare Mormons would declare as heresy.

In the Westminster Confession in the 1689 confession is the fact that those declarations are those

confessions?

State that God in reference to the Father is spirit and the Mormons insist that

God the Father is a Has flesh and blood and bone and it seems that some of the Word of Faith

I clearly heard Kenneth Copeland describing God the Father as being just about his height and weight was

interesting how close in Description God the Father was to Kenneth Copeland, but if you could explain that a little bit.

We know that God is a spirit we know that Jesus is now Seated at the right hand of the

Father and I mean

they make me shake my head like you.

Because my brain is going 18 different directions one of them being Oral Roberts.

Back in his day when he was talking about God appearing to him.

Said that you know, it was like a 90 -foot Jesus.

That's right to him and then you got Copeland saying the head so I would go again back to

Logical reason because there's no foundation in the Bible for it.

It's it's like a lot of the things they say.

There's no foundation biblically for saying that God is this that the other now there are

anthropomorphisms.

Which we know when you know.

Like if we were to say God holds the world in his hands or he will uphold you with his right hand.

Or he will cover you you're under the shadow of his wings.

Let's say and you see a lot of it could cover you with

his feathers.

It's one of the things Bill Johnson said these are ways that a holy Infinite

God that is behind beyond man's comprehension.

Relates to puny limited finite humans.

He sent his son to become a man literally still God.

But a man to relate to us because we are sinful depraved wretched chaotic.

We're all over the map.

We needed God to send us that we needed a sacrifice because we can't save ourselves in the same way God in

his grace Has chosen to make scripture available and make it clear we

can understand him

a gregarious and loving African -american

woman to

try

to make a point.

Yes.

I understand that even though Jimmy Swaggart was.

Apparently and perhaps is still apparently opposed to the word of faith movement in spite of his

own Aberrancies and heresies he believed that God the Father has a human body as well or

a physical body.

My uncle.

At one point now he he repented and recanted of this but then he there were other things he taught that were just as out There.

But you remember he got into a little hot water back in the 90s.

When?

He said that the Trinity was nine persons and that's because a very popular Teaching in

in our circle growing up is that we are all made up of spirit soul and body.

So you have a automatic theology that that's a trichotomy, right?

It's not the dichotomy.

So that approach Spirit soul and body and then so if we are and we are as

he is and all the things that they take right to The nth degree then God also is spirit soul and body like you've

described.

Well, if you times that by three now all three of the members of the Trinity are spirit soul body.

Then there's nine of them and that's what got uncle Benny into a little hot water.

But yeah to allude to if

we don't just go to John for the

Bible take the whole counsel of God and understand God for Who he is?

Not who we want him to be.

Yeah, I want to touch on that when we return from our midway break if anybody would like to join us as

well.

We still have people waiting to have their questions asked and answered.

But if you want to get in line our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chrisarnzen at gmail .com.

We look forward to hearing from you and your questions for Kosti Hinn right after these messages from our sponsors.

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Welcome back.

This is Chris Sorensen.

If you just tuned us in our guest today for the full two hours with a little less than an hour to go is Kosti Hinn

Nephew of renowned word -of -faith healer or leader Benny Hinn.

Kosti is an associate pastor of adult ministries at Mission Bible Church of Tustin,

California.

We are addressing the theme from word -of -faith heresy to sovereign grace truth the testimony of an

apple that did fall very far away from the tree.

And co -hosting with me today is Pastor John Sampson of Kings Church in Peoria, Arizona a

former word -of -faith teacher himself and talk show host and In studio with me is my

normal co -host.

I wouldn't say he's normal, but he's my my usual or typical co -host

Reverend buzz Taylor.

Before we return to our discussion. I just have some important announcements to make some of our Sponsors are

having special events that you should be aware of the word of truth Church.

That's the word of truth Church.

Not the word of faith Church the word of truth Church in Farmingville Long Island in

cooperation with the Long Island Spurgeon Fellowship present the gospel of the Reformation's

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Featuring my friend. Dr. Tony Costa who is professor of apologetics and Islam at

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This is going to be held Friday September 28th and Saturday September 29th.

If you would like to attend this celebration and conference go to word of truth

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The g3 conference returns to Atlanta, Georgia and the theme is knowing God a biblical

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The 17th of January will be exclusively a Spanish speaking edition of the conference and the 18th

through the 20th will be Exclusively an English speaking edition of the conference.

The speakers include Stephen Lawson Vodie Balcom Phil Johnson of Grace to

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And Ted trip is a oh, I'm sorry.

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I'm sorry Paul trip and Todd Freel from wretched TV and wretched radio Derek Thomas Martha peace

and a new addition to the roster a friend of my guest Kosti Hinn.

Justin Peters has been added to the roster at the g3 conference.

And by the way, g3 stands for grace gospel and glory.

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Well now we are back to our discussion with Kosti Hinn.

And as I said earlier, he is the nephew of renowned word -of -faith leader Benny Hinn who came

to abandon that by God's mercy that heresy that word -of -faith heresy and has a Embraced the

doctrines of sovereign grace known as reform theology and we are talking about his testimony today.

If you have a question of your own Send it to us at Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com and always give your first name city and state and country of Residence unless you are

remaining anonymous because the question involves a personal and private matter.

Before we go to any of our listener questions Kosti Right before the break.

We you were discussing that bizarre heresy of there being nine persons in the

Trinity that your uncle Benny had been notoriously

known for saying at least once at a meeting because the Bible Answer

Man Was known to play that clip.

Hank Hanegraaff was known to play that clip quite often and of course Hank Hanegraaff has his own

theological problems now having Entered into what I would call apostasy becoming an Eastern

Orthodox Member but if you could

Kosti Respond to the claim that I have heard subsequent to Hank

Hanegraaff exposing Benny Hinn for that statement.

Where Benny to defend himself said he was joking now.

What about that?

Did he say that he was joking and what do you know about that?

Whether he was or whether obviously from what you were saying earlier, he was not joking this had to do with a

Teaching that was known amongst word -of -faith Pentecostals.

Yeah, there's a great book.

By.

Really really godly men named some actually got

it on my go to man go to the

confusing world of Benny Hinn and They did an amazing job putting this together

Years back and it outlines every single

what he said.

Justin Peters did the same thing afterwards people and I

wasn't that serious and That

exactly is publicly and you go for the shock and awe

factor.

You have two choices you can try to twist the Bible some more and stick with it

because of pride and of embarrassment or You can recant.

Kosti.

I don't know what you I don't know what you changed, but you're muffled now.

Your voice is muffled.

Now I can.

Yeah, yes much better.

So, yeah things like that are pretty normal they were pretty normal in our circle.

We dabbled right in both prosperity gospel and word -of -faith theology.

So when you said something or did something that was a no -go.

You had two choices one you twist the Bible more and stick with it or two you pull back and recant

and with that one.

You know, uncle Benny just recanted it, but he went on to continue to Preach and teach

falsely.

It's like after one of the documentaries.

He said I'm you know, you're right I need to just preach the gospel.

I need to keep it simple.

You know, I'm finally glad somebody's asking me these questions.

Remember NBC Dateline did one the Fifth Estate CBC.

Uncle Benny has made a career of saying, you know, I'm gonna pull back.

You're right I need to preach different and then going right back to What he's

done and in our circle again, I can't speak for everyone.

I can only speak for what I grew up in and what I experienced and what I benefited from and even taught

and lived out.

Is we.

Like I'm a true believer now and sanctification these things aren't aren't

encumbrances anymore by God's grace.

But greed was our thing.

Money was our thing.

So we protect the mighty dollar.

Did is he got in some hot water?

It's a fancy Suzanne when you

need to do things and teach things and I don't wanna go too far down that road.

Cuz that's pontificating and it's actually just character theology.

But I am telling people the inner workings of this stuff is simple money.

Yeah, so you you really believe then he was your uncle was being dishonest when he said it was he was joking

that he was Really intending that to be a serious theological declaration.

Well, yeah I think he got caught going for shock factor trying to bring something new and then had to pull

back and say he was Joking, but yeah now now he is joking right because it all went south.

Yeah.

Yeah, well, I'd like you to now give us the details as in a summary form obviously about

how you.

How and when you started to say to yourself this.

This isn't really from God.

This is not biblical when your conscience started bothering you.

Perhaps God providentially brought teachers into your life who are biblically sound.

How did this all come about when you began to question something that your family was so entrenched in?

Yeah.

When I was in my teenage years I had lots of questions because we didn't and we couldn't heal everybody and I had a

friend who had cancer.

Her name was Stephanie in my high school, and I asked my family.

Hey, can we go healer?

Can we pray for her and We didn't it was you know we prayed for her from home, but we didn't go and wield

the gift and we needed services and music and atmosphere and Offerings and everyone will have to sow a

seed of faith to get whatever the thing was whether that was healing or breakthrough.

You know, that's another popular word.

And so that was a red flag that I remember clearly another one was Just prophecies that

didn't come true.

We would say stuff and prophesy stuff and it didn't happen.

So I thought well if you were getting a message from God.

Unless there was some static.

How did you not get that?

Right?

I mean, come on.

I was a teenager, right?

So things are very simple black and white.

It is what it is.

Either we can or we can't.

But again, I was a teenager.

So I had my own dreams my own goals.

I put that stuff aside and So I'll break this down real quick in summary.

Earl and the pastor.

My coach in college.

I played baseball at Dallas Baptist University.

Used to talk about the sovereignty of God.

He was a Baptist and still is wonderful wonderful man used to drop

Proverbs 21 on us and say it's like

water In the channel to the head of the Lord.

I mean he turns it wherever he wishes.

God is sovereign.

He controls whatever he wants.

He controls scouts and see God's sovereign.

Just play baseball have fun and he'll take care of the rest.

It would confuse me.

I'd think how in the world do I get on the good side?

He would drop

seeds

in our life like

that any

model gen sovereignty was planted in my life by coach

Hefner my wife.

Well, she's my

girlfriend at

the

time

comes along

Mary because she wasn't baptized by the Holy Spirit.

My Baptist education at

DBU you can

imagine that the matterful beautiful

wants to learn and be a part of

our family.

I don't have gifts of healing.

Do they know all the gifts of interpretation and miracles?

I think I'm off the hook.

She fell.

I think I've told us on some of the other interviews.

She tipped over in her little heels and she had to

do.

He went to a

youth conference where I was speaking and

Lord use them

all for pastor grabs a mic and goes

you're all gonna

Get filled.

And I'll never

forget it.

I'm about six to my wife is five two so I'm standing there a foot taller.

I'm looking down at her.

I'll never forget it.

She put her little hands in the air and she's babbling her little mouth away and she's trying so hard.

And you guys it just didn't it just didn't work.

It's a gift thing out just for sake

of our

listeners and

people that

at an altar

to

come out my

pastor

now Tony he look I

know you you start on you you

were kind you wanted to grow and he hired me as a youth pastor.

He's from

Canada

Pastor even now as a brother.

He says no one packs up their cars and

leading them a believer

and on

five.

The John MacArthur commentary on my desk ain't

on the tracks my

right

now and just kind of give you what happened.

I'm TV all but in a

that's right.

Give money.

You're in the music.

That's right.

Of course, you

know,

you and I

both

know

have enough

faith.

Hey, man.

Interestingly I years ago heard a Calvinist landmark Baptist used that same

biblical illustration to teach unconditional election.

Because out of the midst of all those people there was a man out of all of them that

Christ chose to heal.

But I want to address a couple of things that you brought up there In your

your testimony.

One is the failed prophecies.

How does how does your family and others in?

Your uncle's church or the church where he pastors and those that support him how do they

keep turning a deaf ear and a blind eye to All of these unfulfilled

prophecies.

I can remember hearing him prophesy.

I don't know how long ago it was but it might have been the 90s.

Where homosexuals were going to be spontaneously bursting into flame or something like that and

I can remember him on a platform in Africa Saying that

Christ was going to return to that very platform at some point.

To declare his second coming.

Now when I heard him say that I immediately thought wouldn't that be his second coming?

If he appeared on the platform, but how do they respond to these and perhaps you can cite any

other?

Failed prophecies that people just seem to forget everybody has amnesia.

It seems who loves Benny him.

Yeah, it was in 94 95 the Prophecy that the homosexual community is going to be burned by fire

by God and then also that Fidel Castro would would die that year and then the other one you're referring

to is in a Crusade leading up to a crusade in Kenya.

He said that Jesus was going to physically appear in the service and of course.

That's a great marketing ploy right to have hundreds of thousands of Kenyans come to a stadium.

And be taken to the cleaners and so there's three ways and I'm verbally processing this with you.

So we'll kind of walk through and you guys fire questions back if I leave anything out but number one

they Can say that God changed his mind?

Because They boil God down in very very human ways so his immutability is just

like his sovereignty is just like everything else.

You can change it you can play with his attributes and so his immutability.

Well, he can change his mind.

He he chose not to or because people didn't have faith and believe for that or because people criticized

me God is going to do something else now because of unbelief or I

asked him for mercy and He chose to have mercy.

So one you can change what God said to

well Prophecies still going but because we're

fallible men.

We don't always get it right

arguable at best and then the other way which it's

not the Lord's anointed.

Yeah, if God spoke and he did and he changed his mind.

You better be very very careful.

Kosti touch not the Lord's anointed.

God can do whatever he wants.

So you know, you're appealing to sovereignty to get you off the hook and I'm not God.

I'm just a messenger.

So if God changes he changes and the touch not

appeal to command regarding

Monarchial kings in the line of Israel in regard to

not

messing around

tie that in

to touch.

Not the Lord's anointed do my prophets no harm.

Then you've got to go over to the book of Deuteronomy and you guys probably know where I'm going with this and you've got to Hold the

prophet to the standard of biblical prophecy.

Now.

That prophet must die.

That's right prophesied falsely the

Bible.

What do we get?

Confusion and chaos.

And we get destructive heresies that are meant to deceive people and it hurts people.

And if we go back to the Text the Bible is really clear.

That's how you get out of prophecy.

I hope I'm not helping anybody figure out how to do.

That's How you get away with it.

And and you will meet your maker one day and you will give an account so.

Dangerous ground to be playing around.

Well, we're going to our final break right now.

When we return I will ask you one more question about Some of what you said in your testimony and I'll

have John Sampson ask a question and then after we get John Sampson's question We'll get immediately to

our listener questions because people have been waiting quite a long time.

And we thank you for your patience.

Don't go away.

We'll be right back with Kosti Hinn right after these messages.

Hi, I'm pastor Bill Shishko inviting you to tune in to a visit to the pastor's study every Saturday

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Charles Haddon Spurgeon.

That you just heard in that ad is one of my co -hosts today.

John Sampson pastor of Kings Church in Peoria, Arizona.

And We are interviewing Kosti Hinn.

For those of you who just tuned in and he will be on for the next 25 minutes he's giving his testimony of his

conversion or deliverance or His departure from the heresies of the word of faith movement.

That his uncle Benny is very well known notoriously as being a

leader amongst that group and and his Embracing his discovery and

embracing of sovereign grace or Calvinistic or reformed theology.

Where he now serves as a pastor of a church committed to the doctrines of sovereign grace

and A congregation that is even a cessationist congregation that no longer believes the

sign gifts are applicable to the church today.

In fact, that is one of the questions that I had for you before I let John Sampson ask a question of his own

Kosti you were talking about how your wife was faking the tongues and one of the things that I

speak to my charismatic friends about and those Even some of my

reformed friends who are not cessationists.

They're continuationists or continuous.

However, you want to phrase it.

They will be convinced That tongues is a real phenomenon for the modern church

because they've experienced it.

And then I know others who when they became Believers in the doctrines of grace they

abandon the sign gifts and they become Cessationist now you have become

a cessationist.

What did you think was going on in your life when you were speaking in tongues?

And I'm assuming that you were and What do you what do you think is going on?

And I mean some of this is guesswork, but in the lives of many sincere People

who are actually genuinely born again.

Who are doing that.

Who are speaking in unknown tongues quote -quote who are basically?

Babbling with noises that are not a part of an actual established a

human language.

Great question.

I was one of those who spoke unknowingly.

That I just was trying to do my best to speak in tongues.

That's what I thought I had to do and So I would use it and this is all I can say

is what I experienced was I would I would pray in tongues in The shower.

I'd pray in tongues in my car.

I would pray in tongues when I felt and I use that in quotes like I was being attacked by the enemy and

I was taught that if you pray in the spirit, it's a more power.

Would repeat the same phrase literally.

I could still do it for you Chris.

I won't make it uncomfortable, but I could still repeat it.

I know what I used to say.

I know I can tell you my dad's my mom's I can tell you how my uncle starts.

All it's the same babbled phrase, which first of all you can do it if you want to by the way.

You want me to.

Yeah, sure go ahead.

Okay, I would say she cloned a buck a so -called a buck a show over and over and over I could do that in my

Sleep I could do it tomorrow.

I'm not faking that I can tell you in ten years I'll repeat the same phrase my uncle's always starts with mouth

cop and he goes on we all have heard him on TV Do it.

It's the same repeated phrase and The argument is that that is a

spiritual or heavenly language.

And so you would I would just do it innocently I just thought and I wouldn't intermingle it with prayer.

Trust you.

Please help me I'm under attack and I would go off on the phrase and it honestly for me was an innocent

thing I was trying to do now.

I've heard of other people That have told me stories and they said when I used to speak in tongues I would go into this

trance like state and I would feel a very weird feeling and I would

speak things I didn't even know that I was speaking and my husband would hear me in the closet and I would sound

Possessed or whatever the husband is from and people have really

dark and weird demonic experiences I've heard of those stories as well and then other people.

Yeah, there's all the stories that you can imagine but

What we need to do and you're catching a theme here and you live this I live

in the Bible.

We aren't

told of God and to

do what

Duke him not.

Yeah, I'm not babble at him.

And so my wife was many people tried to do

a lady in our church growing up would stand behind me I never forget it.

I won't name her name.

Maybe she saved her.

She's reformed now praise God sit behind me and say that that that

that that that that that that that gonna

touch people today church

you pray in the thing like we see

it's actually the opposite of what Paul describes the church should

be doing in first Corinthians 14 and we're

talking about

the gift of

and then lastly three

Ps to remember and

Obviously the church was being chaotic with no interpretation.

There's nothing peaceful about that again I go back to

the tip.

Hmm.

I could

recall years ago and I'm almost certain it was the 700 Club, but that there was a.

Individual who said that He after Ozzy Osbourne Left Black

Sabbath that he was temporarily a fill -in and toured with Black Sabbath and

he performed in a theatrical performance either in Jesus Christ

Superstar or Godspell but he was on the cross on the stage.

He was the role of Jesus Christ.

He's performing the role of Jesus Christ and he said and I don't know if this is you know a true or false

story.

But he said that he became Overwhelmed with a demonic spirit and began speaking in demonic

tongues.

This individual had some kind of connection with the more extreme Pentecostal groups.

Are you familiar with whom I'm talking about?

I.

Am and I'm familiar.

So you think it's just a phony story.

No, I think that there is an element to Those type of things that can very very

well be demonic if that Satan isn't at work

and we need to be aware of the adversary and his minions and

Think about it.

I if it doesn't match the Bible if it doesn't match the true

and Paul warned about other Gospels and Satan's workers are disguised as

workers of righteousness and there are false signs and false wonders and there is all this going on and there's a spirit

and To it.

They're telling you to disengage your mind.

And we're to have the mind of Christ and believers not not a emptied kind of chaotic mind that

just opened.

Then I don't doubt at all that people will have Demonic experiences.

I am NOT saying that everyone is I'm not even saying that it's normative and I can't even comment

accurately on what that man experienced.

But I can tell you that if it's not matching divine revelation from God himself

Then what is it?

It's not of God.

So it's of the God of this world and we even have examples of Mormons and people of other religions

speaking in tongues, so that is not some kind of a verification of something that's truly from God.

And John Sampson if you could ask a brief question because we do have a

line of Listeners that are waiting to have their questions asked and answered.

So John, what would you like to ask?

I.

Would like to ask on the personal level, you know, I've got

very different background, but I had an uncle who was a driver for Smith Wigglesworth and

it's a it's very much my heritage what we're talking about what we're walking away from and

From their perspective they think you and I have lost the plot spiritually, we've

lost the anointing and you and I have lost friends and there's this strange family

relationships because of it and I kind of wanted to ask you as much as you and I can.

Assess our own hearts.

What's the motivation?

For coming on a show like this and talking because for some they they think it can't be godly.

You must be Motivated by a wrong spirit inside and in the sense of

talking about these things but from from my perspective it's about the the

wonder of being rescued by God and to point people to the truth and to the vastness and

bigness of the deception I was in.

What what as much as you can?

Analyze your own heart.

How would you talk about your motivation and now speaking up on this subject?

Yeah, John.

I want to see people get saved.

I'm with you.

I'm with Chris prayed before the show.

I And I said, thank you for him to pray for him praying that way people don't know this because they didn't

hear it.

It's not on the recording.

But he was literally praying that we don't get caught in the minutiae and we thought just spewing our

words.

But we actually that God would use this to save people.

I want people saved.

I I'm not saying every charismatic and Pentecostal is a heretic or they're hell -bound.

I just want those who are really lost to come back to some semblance of Orthodox faith.

Just believe in the right Jesus.

You know, I I've even told my own family members through tears be charismatic fine be open but cautious.

I'll be a Calvinist.

We'll all still have Thanksgiving together and and differ, but please believe in the right Jesus preach the right

Jesus.

Not the one that was just a man.

The one who was God and will always be and is coming back to recompense every man according to his deeds.

Just can we believe in the in the same Jesus is what I begged them to.

Come to and obviously I know that God is sovereign and saving in an election

with evangelism.

I'll sooner stop evangelizing and all soon all sooner stop coming on programs like this.

Telling the details answering questions and begging that people be saved and actually think critically about the

Bible as soon as God Puts an E on every person who is the elect.

I'll stop but that's not gonna happen.

We don't know who that are.

Our job is to evangelize and so I'm I'm with you guys.

I want the lost people saved.

I I contend for the faith like you talked about because I'm commanded to but I'd much rather be

with Christians and like -minded people talking about good news and good stuff, but

We have to fight the good fight and can I want people saved?

I want my uncle saved.

I'm getting emails from Dave now Amen, and are getting

saved and are questioning their own beliefs.

So stop

just cuz

hey man.

Hey, man, and just to verify what you said I have a dear friend who is now with eternity who

are now in eternity with Christ.

Who was killed in a tragic automobile accident.

But Al Stein a precious brother who was very frequently a guest on my

old Radio show my old iron sharpens iron radio show a broadcasting head of New York.

Al Stein Was not only a pastor in an assemblies of God congregation the

neighborhood assembly of God of Belmore, New York but he was also a bishop and a district

overseer.

And When I met Al he was an Arminian and and Before

at least a couple of years before he went home to the be with the Lord.

He was a full -blown five -point Calvinist and he was still an assemblies of God pastor

bishop and overseer.

And I have other friends who are charismatic and Pentecostal who are doctrinally sound

Soteriologically in spite of anything else that I disagree with them on but we're gonna go to our listeners now.

We have a first -time listener and if I could have a drumroll, please we have a first -time listener

from Alaska.

At least on the new the current edition of iron sharpens iron radio.

We used to get Phone calls from Alaska on the old show when we did call -ins.

But we have Don in Valdez, Alaska.

He says how do family get -togethers go and what is the best way to talk with family

members?

Who are caught up in this kind of teaching.

I don't.

I want to come up and fish for salmon in Alaska with you one.

Day.

Keep me in there in your thoughts.

I'm a I'm a Canadian.

I love to fish so great in Alaska family gatherings are from.

Interesting.

I go with Jude's words.

I turn to the passage.

So I'll read it.

Jude says keep yourselves in the love of God waiting anxiously for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to eternal life

and Have mercy on some who are doubting.

Save others snatching them out of the fire and on some have mercy with fear hating even

the garment polluted by the flesh.

I see some categories there by Jude saying, you know, some people are just doubting so in

my family members I'm really gentle with those who are just they're a confused group or they are

they're just doubting and they're kind of it's okay.

I have mercy on them.

I love them.

I get together with them.

I take it easy.

I don't bring a doctrinal treatise to every family gathering.

Then save others snatching them out of the fire there's others that I'm a little bit more aggressive with and abrupt with

maybe a sister or a cousin who's involved with Bethel and becoming a prophetess or

Hanging out with people that are clearly a cult or clearly a false

teacher.

I begged them to come out.

I begged them to and I'm more aggressive with them.

I I call them I text them I send the material and say I love you.

We don't have to agree on everything, but please not that and then others I stay away from completely Hating even the

garment polluted by the flesh.

I have mercy on them with fear.

My uncle Benny fits.

Not necessarily even in that category.

He fits in other categories where false teachers, you know, even I'm not even around I'm not even talking to

him beats in my family at certain gatherings that I keep a very close

An eye on and I keep a good grave influence

on a lot of other people and Jude is talking

uncle Benny.

So sorry

to everybody who

thinks I shouldn't have

gone I went and grieved my grandmother, but I did not rub elbows with uncle Benny and act

like everything was fine I I went grieved and I was home and

well, thank you Don and since you're a first -time questioner.

You are going to receive in the mail Compliments of Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service and compliments of the publishers of the

New American Standard Bible.

You're going to receive in the mail a free New American Standard Bible.

So please give us your full mailing address in Valdez Alaska and God willing that should

arrive fairly soon.

We have a listener who actually is the pastor of The Word of Truth

Church in Farmingville, Long Island who I mentioned earlier.

Who is hosting the Gospel of the Reformation celebration?

That is pastor Bruce Bennett of the Word of Truth Church in

Farmingville, Long Island not the Word of Faith Church and he says yes something that you just

touched on and I want you to clarify if you could and I'm actually I'm

actually going to add a fourth option to what he asked.

He says how would you rate Benny Hinn currently misguided teacher as to

methodology?

Number two false teacher as to methodology and secondary doctrines, but still Orthodox on essential doctrine.

Three heretical teacher falsely represents the Godhead and or Jesus and or salvation

and Or ultimate authority.

I'm going to add my fourth Category.

Is he an out -and -out charlatan who is knowingly deceiving people according to what you can

assess.

Knowing him as you have.

Question, I'll keep it short and be really honest with you guys It's not the first option that you

mentioned initially.

It's it's a Jumping from the other three and

deceiving people knowingly.

Absolutely.

I've seen it I'm not going to get into it because that's not edifying but 100 knows what he's doing at certain

times and Why he's doing it to.

My uncle is a false teacher who is using and twisting and Capitalizing on the

gospel and it is a false gospel.

It's a false version of Jesus and thirdly we have all So we can't deceive

ourselves either.

We have all heard uncle Benny preach a clear gospel message Justin Peters one time said to me Kosti.

I've heard uncle preach a better gospel message than some reform preachers.

I know but That does not negate all the other things and we know that that's a ploy

when Paul described he makes I'll illustrate I we tell people at our church all

the time Satan doesn't come with a pitchfork and a red tail and horns false teachers.

Don't come and say hey I'm here to deceive you with a false gospel.

They mix it is how you deceive people you do not give them

full -blown error.

And so he dances from one two and three, but we know what that means.

That is a false teacher.

So Just say it outright.

He's a false teacher deceiving people and being deceived

To thank

you

a pastor Bruce

in.

Farmingville Long Island, New York.

And keep spreading the word about the iron sharpens iron radio program in Farmingville, Long Island and

beyond.

And God willing I will see you at the The 500th anniversary celebration of the Reformation at the end of this

month.

We have Joey and Clifton, New Jersey.

And I am just enlarging or enlarging his question because the font is microscopic

and I can barely read it.

And Joey from Clifton, New Jersey Asks

Let's see here.

I'm so happy to use the phrase dear pastor Hinn in good conscience.

I have a deep concern for those who have been influenced by word -of -faith leaders.

How do you recommend reaching our friends who may not be aware of the implications of these beliefs.

For example.

You ask your friend for prayer and she says it's done in Jesus name.

You tell your friend about God's sovereignty over his future and he wants to avoid the discussion because he thinks

you will negatively Influence the outcome for him.

You talk to your friend about what you are learning from Scripture.

But your friend talks about feelings impressions and what God is telling him or her.

How do we reach people who are so biased in the way they see Scripture in the

world and it invades every Aspect of their theology and living.

I have found it so hard to break through the wall because it is a whole mindset.

I wonder if based on your experience you have any guidance on how to effectively reach people who have been so

influenced.

Joey.

Evangelizing the lost and so that includes those who think they've been found.

You keep relational doors open.

You keep going to coffee.

You keep putting truth in front of them.

You keep loving them by giving them truth.

That's actually love.

Love isn't just this ethereal thing.

You got to love people by giving them the truth and speaking that truth and love.

And It's the same thing with dealing with your unsaved friends who are.

They want to go do worldly things and you want to do godly things.

You keep doing godly things.

You keep living the truth.

You keep doing what God has called and appointed and saved you and purposed you to do and along the way

you are calling Everyone unto salvation.

That is evangelism.

You need to keep doing that and It doesn't ever get easy, but God is sovereign in salvation.

And I try to keep the doors for evangelism always Open.

There's no day off.

So you are always a vessel for God to use and then you trust them and you never stop.

The way to do it.

And I know that's the cookie -cutter Bible answer but.

And I am so sorry to all of you who are still waiting to have your questions asked and answered.

But we have run out of time and I know that I am going to want to schedule Costi to return even if you could hold on

right now.

Costi when we go off the air I want to schedule another interview with you because so please hold on.

I want to make sure our listeners know that your church website is mission Bible dot o

RG.

Mission Bible dot o RG and That is the mission Bible Church of Tustin,

California.

And my second co -host who's on the phone pastor John Sampson.

The website for the church where he pastors the Kings Church or Kings Church in Peoria, Arizona.

That website is Kings Church AZ comm.

Kings Church AZ comm.

It was such a thorough Wonderful joy to have you on the program today

Costi, so please hold on and let me reschedule you.

Thank you a reverend buzz Taylor for being in studio with us.

Thank you Everybody who wrote in questions today and all of you who listened and I want you all to always remember for the rest of your

lives That Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than you are a sinner.

I hope you have a safe blessed and God for God glorifying weekend and

Lord's Day.

We'll look forward to hearing from you with your questions for our guests next week on iron sharpens iron radio.