Have You Not Read S2E27 - Triple Header: Where to Start, Fasting, Tithing

The Gospel of John as the Best Starting Place for New Christians

Welcome to have you not read a podcast seeking to answer questions from the text of scripture for the honor of Christ and the edification Of the Saints before we dig into our topic. We humbly ask you to rate review and share the podcast.

Thank you. I'm Andrew Hudson. Joining me today are Michael Deere and David Casson. All right, we have three questions that we have in the lineup today a little bit different format. So first question what book of the Bible should a new Christian begin with regarding his study of God's Word?

Michael. It's a great question. The Bible is a collection of 66 books written by over 40 different authors Throughout a 1500 year time period on three different continents and you get in there in the table of contents and you see.

Oh, wow, there's a lot of pages and a lot of books so where do I start. My recommendation is to start with the Gospel of John and the reason one Theologian has described it as safe enough for a child to wade deep enough for an elephant to drown.

So when I encourage you to read the Gospel of John starting off I hope that this will be the first of many read-throughs and As you read through the Gospel of John you're going to encounter the person and work of Jesus the gospel you'll hear about who he is and what he does and You get to read a lot about what he says.

To people who have questions just like you have and I think that as you read my Recommendation is as you read the Gospel of John if you have an app or a Bible that has some cross references when Jesus or John as he's writing.

Quote something from the Old Testament, you know, go look it up and read it, too.

And I think it'll be really enriching to you. This was a really interesting question. In fact, we were chatting before we started recording and You know, we just all sort of said hey well if you could give somebody one book.

You said what should they start with all of us independently actually said the Gospel of John it was it was just just really neat. They just sort of we were all of that same opinion. The reason I would recommend that they start With the Gospel of John is it's it's not just every single book of the Bible is about Jesus.

That is that is true. It's not just that it has a lot of interesting doctrine. You could see that in the Romans Road you can see that, you know, especially row one through eight. But all the book of Romans, I mean if you want to learn about the the holiness of God, you need read Leviticus.

But when you you really want to know the person of who of Jesus I mean who this who this man is the God man the Gospel of John Presents him in a way that it's very unique among the Gospels. It's actually it's not strictly chronological.

Although it's centered around Seven miracles that's actually its structure. It's not one of the synoptics. You know Matthew Mark and Luke where the way you can kind of line them up and you kind of see some some basic structure.

It is still as a beginning and end but it's centered around these seven miracles and seven being, you know, complete Completeness and it shows that the God man is truly the Word made flesh that truly he works miracles.

He's master of all creation. If you want to read one of the greatest passages about how much Christ loves his church read the high priestly prayer At the end where you hear God the Son praying to God the Father On behalf of his sheep.

It's it's beautiful.

Wonderful in John chapter 20 is Probably reason why I would have chosen John for someone to begin reading with that in mind. This portion that I'll read from it's gonna begin with what people called doubting Thomas.

But it plays into the idea behind this so now Thomas called Didymus by the way I'm reading out of the NET now Thomas called Didymus one of the twelve was not with them when Jesus came. That's a interesting way of phrasing it.

Jesus came After his resurrection to his disciples. The other disciples told him we have seen the Lord. But he replied unless I see the wounds from the nails in his hands and put my finger into the wounds from the nails.

And put my hand into his side. I will never believe it. Eight days later the disciples were again together in the house. Thomas was with him this time. Although the doors were locked Jesus came and stood among them and said peace be with you.

Then he said to Thomas put your finger here and examine my hands. Extend your hand and put it into my side. Do not continue in your unbelief but believe. Thomas replied to him My lord my God. And Jesus said to them.

Have you believed because you have seen me. Blessed are the people who have not seen and Yet have believed. Now Jesus performed many other miraculous signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not recorded in this book.

But these are recorded so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God and that by Believing you may have life in his name. That's what I want for you. I want life for you. And blessed are you who haven't seen the risen Lord but yet you believe so.

That's why I've chosen John 20 powerful powerful book. All right, so I think we've addressed that let's move on to the next question. How should believers understand fasting. Is this something that should be done on a regular basis.

Fasting as a Christian Discipline and the Heart Behind It

Michael yeah, so when we think about fasting we have Examples throughout the scripture stories about the Saints fasting very often we find it's in times of great peril difficulties when Seriously there needs to be a lot of prayer and an acknowledgment of absolute dependence upon God so many examples there and then the question is Should followers of Christ fast today?

How often should they be doing that. And I think that when Jesus addresses the issue of fasting he deals with it more along the lines of Of how and but in terms of why. Okay, so in Matthew chapter 6 Jesus deals with some critical examples of piety giving praying fasting and in Matthew chapter 6 verse 16 He says moreover when you fast so he doesn't say when you fast every Tuesday and Thursday.

Oh, yeah, right. He doesn't say if you fast he says when you fast. So there's a there's an idea of Jesus expects that fasting will be a part of His followers life. Okay, but notice the Liberty there in that it's not Stated you must fast one day of the week or whatever.

It may be moreover when you fast do not be like the hypocrites with a sad countenance. For they disfigure their faces that they may appear to men to be fasting. Assuredly I say to you they have their reward.

It was customary of for the hypocrites the Pharisees the keepers of the law those who really depended on everybody knowing how righteous they were they were the quintessential virtue signalers. They would fast on two days a week because those were the market days and they would drag themselves looking horrible Through the markets and you know, you can just imagine them pining away at the food and like saying oh, no I can't you know, they wanted to appear to men to be fasting.

Yeah so Jesus says they have the reward which is men's praise your virtue signaling worked and then all you get is men's applause for 17 but you when you fast anoint your head and wash your face in other words, you know.

You're taking care of yourself as normal so that you do not appear to men to be fasting. But to your father who is in the secret place and your father who sees you in secret reward you openly. So a desire to please the father a desire to draw closer to the God who provides for you.

Trusting in him turning your attention to him. Jesus is saying now why you fast. Dictates how you fast if you're fasting for men, you're gonna do it in this way if you fast for God. You'll do it in a different way.

Okay, and this so there is a there was a controversy about fasting in Matthew 9 just a couple. Three chapters later and the disciples of John came to him saying why do we in the Pharisees fast often? But your disciples do not fast.

Yeah, how long had the disciples gone without fasting, you know, who knows? You know, they're not keeping track, you know, they don't have a scorechart. So yeah. And so Jesus said to them can the friend of the bridegroom mourn as long as the bridegroom is with them notice how he's making fasting entirely tied to Relationship with God, right?

It's about your relationship with God the father. It's about your relationship with God the Son. It doesn't make sense to fast in some scenarios, but it does others and those scenarios are relational how you relate to God.

Okay, now very importantly He says the days will come when the bridegroom will be taken away from them and then they will fast. Okay, so there'll be tough days ahead. That's when they fast. It just makes sense.

It has to be fitting you see Verse 16 no one puts a piece of unshrunk cloth on an old garment for the patch pulls away from the garment and the tear is Made worse nor do they put new wine into old wineskins else the wineskins break the wine is spilled and the wineskins are ruined.

But they put new wine and new wineskins and both are preserved. What is Jesus saying to the disciples of John who are talking about the customs of Moses and fasting? He's saying to them. There is a new thing happening, right?

You're talking you're asking questions about fasting from an Old Covenant perspective. Jesus is coming to make all things new. Fasting will still be a part of his kingdom a part of his new creation a part of the new covenant.

But it will not be the same as it was before. Where there were strictures and patterns and so on and so forth. So that is An important consideration remember that the disciples of John and the Pharisees were fasting under Old Covenant parameters where Israel Corporately is to be in good standing with God.

But if we are in Christ who is the fulfillment of Israel and in a perfect relationship with God because of his justification. Standing in for us and he has set us apart. Then. How do we understand fasting in relationship to our desire?

That God would hear our prayers our. When we are having difficult times we're appealing to the Lord. Yeah, you see so that's that's how it changes in Matthew 6.

You know has says hey. This is how things are in the in the kingdom and you have you know starts off with Giving to the needy when you when you give don't sound a trumpet. Don't let even let your left hand know what the right hand is doing in verse 4.

Let your giving be in secret so that your father who sees in secret will repay you. Same thing when you talk about praying when you pray. This is a verse 6. Go into your room. Shut the door pray your father's in secret and your father who sees in secret will repay you.

And we see Fasting and you read this when you fast don't let your fasting you'd so that you'd be seen by others. But by your father who is the secret and your father who sees in secret will reward you.

So it's all about those laying up treasures for yourself in heaven. This is you know verse verse 19 having that heaven heavenward. Focus don't do things simply for the you know, the outward outward appearance.

You surely you're gonna have your own reward. So I would say well, do we do we give to the poor and as Christians? Well, yes, do we pray as Christians? Well, yes, do we lay up treasures for ourselves in heaven?

Yes, well fasting is right in the middle of that whole list. So it makes it makes sense that we would continue to do this. But Michael as you as you had said the focus is different. It's still an important discipline.

We're still human taking time, you know away from those Appetites to focus on on something is a really well-worn tradition. But it's also very very effective and I think that Christ putting it in this list is hey.

You're still human and and and I think this is still a useful discipline. But let's make sure it's oriented properly because it could certainly be abused or or become an idol.

You know a form of legalism where you're earning God's favor. I was in part in during my college years I went to a university that was based out of a Wesleyan holiness tradition. And it was very fashionable when I was there on campus for fasting to occur.

Did you say fashionable very fashionable. Wow in trying to engage with God on the on mystical levels through spiritual? Experiences fasting was really big at the time. And so How did I know that because everybody was telling everybody else about how they were fasting?

Like the exact opposite of what Jesus said. Yeah, and they were and they were they were trying to find new ways to fast, you know. So my favorite one wasn't because the people were like fasting from Xbox, you know.

We're fasting from soda or you know fasting from my girlfriend, you know so on and so forth and but the my favorite one was probably all go good things was fasting from Talking and so they would walk around.

They would they would walk around through the hallways go to lunch go to classes and when anybody would talk to them. They would just like awkwardly make you know. You know shake their heads no and so on and then eventually Probing them.

Everyone's like trying to say what's wrong with you with you know, they eventually would write down. I'm fasting from talking.

And you know, so there were the monks would be happy. Yeah, I was yeah just thinking about that. That's that's. I'm very proud of my of my humility. I'm very I'm very rich in poverty. Look at me. Yeah, look at me early.

They had their reward. Yeah, they had their reward.

It was very hermetic like a hermit, but also if you could find the right alchemy visible hermitry. Yeah. Yeah. If you could find the right alchemy term hermetic looks to Alchemy. If you could find the right mixture of spiritual disciplines, you would reach that mountaintop.

But it was always very public, you know, and that's what Jesus said. No, don't do that way.

Yeah, Christ doesn't doesn't give us a formula. Our Lord gives us things that are very beneficial. We're talking about Giving you know out of out of the abundance that God has given you giving to the needy praying to our father fasting focusing, you know that time laying up treasures and having those are very very beneficial things.

And We get to do it in secret our father who sees in secret reward you and don't be a hypocrite. I mean, it's it's you can kind of boil it down to that statement.

I think about Hebrews and it's like, you know The one we're serving sees right through all your bakery. It's just Yeah. Surely, they they have the reward. It's a it's a sobering reminder these these as you say spiritual disciplines are not Mara badges, right?

They're about being with the one who rules over all.

Be humbled before him. Yeah, your your pride will be destroyed I mean full disclosure. I remember doing this stuff especially early in the really my Christian walk. I remember engaging in some of these things and asking questions and I mean we're going out to dinner and I was I Did a I don't know a Daniel fast where it was.

Like, you know, like seven eight days of gene nothing, but nothing but vegetables which probably pretty good for you, but People asked me and I was I talked about it and you know, I probably could have Been a little bit more secret about it.

But you know, but then again, maybe not but I just remember being in that environment and people talked about that a lot and You know, maybe it was would have been better to do all that inside your prayer closet.

Tithing, Cheerful Giving, and the New Testament Pattern

All right on to the final question for this episode. I believe in honoring God with the tithe Malachi 310. Jesus mentions tithing and Matthew 23 23 and also Luke 11 42 and I read this as Jesus listing this among other things not to neglect.

I have also read in 2nd Corinthians 9 7 that each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give. Not reluctantly or under compulsion for God loves a cheerful giver. I know several people who claim that they are free from the command of tithing.

Based on 2nd Corinthians 9 7 is Tithing today a matter of the heart or a command from God. We deal with money it.

Becomes very emotional for a lot of people. This is did there people who take this Really personally and sometimes people have been burned by previous churches. I think some of us have had experiences with that where you Needed to give you know a certain amount or you may have be talking to the Deacons.

I mean, there's there's we're gonna keep the lights on. Yeah, I Think there were some I think there's some European countries. For a while is basically you get you just take it out of your taxes. Oh, yeah.

UK used to have it that way, you know. Different parishes in different regions.

But what does what does the Bible say about tithing?

So a lot of the scripture references were mentioned in the question which is great. Obviously this person is I'm reading the word and trying to understand what it means how it applies to their life. So it's excellent excellent.

Malachi chapter 3 verse 8. Again, God is chastising his people. This is after the exile of Babylon. They've returned they've rebuilt the walls the city of Jerusalem the temples been rebuilt and They're back in a rut of going through the motions of worshiping God in expectations of his New Covenant promises.

But in the meantime, they've begun to just go through the motions of worship and they're not genuinely Worshiping God and so God is bringing attention to this in Malachi. In verse 8 the Prophet asks will a man rob God.

He's speaking in the name of God here. But yet you have robbed me. But you say in what way have we robbed you in tithes and offerings for you are cursed with the curse for you have robbed me even this whole nation.

Bring all the tithes into the storehouse that there may be food in my house and Try me now in this says the Lord of Hosts. If I will not open for you the windows of heaven and pour out for you such a blessing that there will not be room Enough to receive it.

There's two things here one notice that this is in context. Also the worshipers during Malachi's day we're bringing the sick and diseased and the blind as As offerings to the Lord sick disease blind lambs oxen and so on it's gonna die.

Anyway, it's no good. Anyway, I might as well give it to God and God says try that with your governor. See if he would accept that see you fear man more than you fear God. Clearly this is this is not good religion now.

That's what he says bring all the tithes into the storehouse, so hey, let's study the Bible word study look up tithe. Look up 10th go and read about all the different tithes in the Old Testament. It wasn't Where people were saying?

Oh, here's my annual income and I have it on a flowchart here. And we're gonna get 10 here and give it to the church. Okay. Hang on a second ancient Excel spreadsheets. Yes. Yes clay tablets, you know, it was a lot harder back then and No, there's several tithes there's lots of tithes just like with a Sabbath people talk about the Sabbath there were lots of Sabbaths which one and.

So when he says bring all the tithes into the storehouse, he's talking about all the ways in which God has commanded his people not to steal from him. But to honor him as their as their maker the Creator the one who made covenant with them redeemed him up out of Egypt.

Bring all those tithes Into the storehouse or there's food in my house. Okay, so they were to bring all of it now the question is is that what this person understands is the tithe. Do they go back and read all the passages in Leviticus and Deuteronomy and find a modern equivalent somehow between all of those different tithes and their modern income.

Okay, or do they go further back to Genesis where Abraham gave a give a tenth to Melchizedek?

Yes to honor him out of the spoils of war. So if you happen to go, you know raid a bandit. You know bandits come through. You know, they they steal a bunch of stuff you track them down take them out and take the spoils of war.

Make sure you give a tenth right to the church. I will bring that on Sunday. Yeah, is that kind of like going out to do it? Like you did a great business deal.

You're a salesperson you go out and you make it a great sale. There are people who hold that exact the same view.

That's exactly what they think so it's good to recognize God is my provider. God is creator. He's sovereign. He's the one who gave me strength. He's the one who gave me this opportunity. I want to bless him praise his name show how good he is.

So I'm dependent upon him. So I'm gonna give a tenth. Okay, great but in this text people appropriate this text rip it out of its context and say if I Don't tithe then I will be cursed. But if I do tithe then I'll have such a blessing that cannot be measured.

Who is God talking to. He is talking to Israel whom he is in covenant with and there are there are covenant blessings and covenant cursing. Do you remember 28 just go read him. When they keep covenant a lot of blessings.

When they don't keep covenant a lot of cursings. There's famine and loss of resources loss of materials and so on. This is about proper worship of God from from the covenant community. Will they get blessing or will they be cursed based on their faithfulness to God's law.

They don't keep the law on tithing. They get cursed. They keep the law. They get blessed. God says try me in this he says that to Israel. Okay, so that's in the context now the the questioner also said hey Jesus mentions the tithe in Matthew 23 23 and in Luke 11 42, but he doesn't mention it positively.

It's true it's in the middle of him casting woes upon the Pharisees and the scribes who tithe their herbs their smallest herbs, but miss the point of What holiness is what's what true?

Spiritual health looks like he said for you tithe mint and dill and cumin and have neglected. The weightier matters of the law. Still talking about the law the weightier matters of the law were justice and mercy and faithfulness.

You should have done without neglecting the others.

Yeah, and I think that's where the questioner is really drawing. Okay. Well, he's saying you should have done these things without neglecting the other so we said we should still do these things, right?

Right, so we only have the tithe Mentioned in the Old Testament to Israel keep the covenant if you don't you get cursed. Okay, so how to read the Bible matters. Christ is Everything that the Bible the Old Testament says about Israel the New Testament says about Christ.

Okay, he is faithful. He has given everything that is required to God. He is the faithful servant. He is the faithful servant and so in him our curse is taken away in him. We have all of our blessings.

Does this mean that we no longer give? No, we give yes, we give a lot. Jesus when he described giving in Matthew 6. He didn't call it the tithe. He called it giving and he said don't let the left hand know what the right hand is doing and do it in a way That glorifies God and really helps people.

Paul and Paul was commissioned by the Jerusalem elders to remember the poor and everything He did is what we were eager to do. So there's giving there. Jesus said you always have the poor with you so, you know give and give freely and in 2nd Corinthians the passage 2nd Corinthians There is a famine in Judea.

There's need in the church. There's these churches that are abroad far away from Corinth and they are in need. So what do they do? Well, Paul encourages them an orderly kind of collection on the first day of the week when y 'all gather.

I Just put just put a little bit aside and over time it'll grow and then you'll have a nice supply for us to take to Those who are in need and then he wants to talk about giving so in verse 6 of 2nd Corinthians 9 he says but this I say he who sows sparingly will also reap sparingly.

He who sows bountifully will also reap bountifully. So let each one give as he purposes in his heart not grudgingly or of necessity. Right. What does that mean out of compulsion? Well, I better give or if I don't I'll get kicked out, you know, or be like Ananias and Sapphira.

You know just keep up with the Joneses or keep up with the Barnabas's I guess. But give in such a way because recognizing God loves a cheerful Giver and God is all able to make all grace abound to you that you always Having all sufficiency in all things that you may have abundance for every good work.

This is so interesting. This is about it's about freedom of giving joy and giving giving generously recognizing God is the giver of all things in the first place. Well, you you know it it has some sort of relationship to Tithing because there's like there's a giving of what you have, but it isn't tithing.

He could have talked about tithing but he didn't. It's something else when Beck and I were first married in The few months before between being married and heading off to seminary. Which meant poverty, you know.

We were blessed to hear Bill Stafford preach and he was known as a smiling preacher and it didn't mean he didn't say hard things. But when he said them he had the biggest smile on his face you ever seen and he preached about giving he talked about being A cheerful giver and that really stuck with us and we always wanted to give and to give generously no matter our financial situation.

And you know, I don't have any kind of algorithm. I didn't keep charts or anything but I know that God was way more generous with us than we ever were with him or anybody else and he always sustained us and we always give give freely and happily and God always provides for our needs and Every time something good happens.

We think what a good God. We don't think.

My algorithm tithing worked, right? I wouldn't discourage anyone from Budgeting out What they want to give. I think it's important to support your local church first before you go to other Other organizations that are also very worthy or causes that are important to you but yeah, I think you should budget that stuff out and I think that's that's perfectly perfectly legit, but you won't find a Proper percentage in the New Testament.

No, he just won't and I think that's that's by design.

I'll go back to what I said previously. Alright, isn't your giving motivated by love of Christ and his people you're falling falling after your master. And and that he sees down to your motives. If you want to give 10 if that's what you are not doing out of duty or compulsion.

But cheerfully you set aside, you know, you're doing your budget and you say, okay I thank God that he has given me this. I'm gonna set aside this 10 out of gratitude. Then praise the Lord. Yeah, if you're doing it because maybe you have this weird idea that you know.

If I don't do this, I'm going to be taking upon Mount Ebal's curses. Right. No, brother. No. No, that's important to acknowledge why are we doing it why. Yeah, so praise the Lord if you if you get more.

Are you doing that to? Be seen. Is your temper more than 10 pride? Is that why you choose 11 I? Well, I can't answer these things. Mm-hmm. You'll have to talk to him about these things. So when we give to the church.

What's it for biblically to support those who make their living according to gospel ministry is to support missionaries as we read in 2nd John support those who go out for the Word of Christ to be supported to support churches abroad who are in need so and all these different things we're giving for the the advancement of Christ's Kingdom.

By means of the preaching of the gospel and you know the establishment of churches and so on and so forth. That's why we give that's what the monies are being used for for giving so that's all it's focused on the magnification of Christ.

It's focused on the exaltation of Christ and so that's that's the motivation for giving. A lot of people talk about to tithing as the Training wheels of giving starting off with 10 and I know where that came from.

It's because when you read the Sermon on the Mount Jesus says you've heard it said but I say to you and he quotes the Old Testament law and then he intensifies it. So, why would he not do the same thing with the tithe?

So we're seeing a pattern there. So he it's not a murder is not just refraining from killing somebody. It's about hatred in your heart adultery is not just refraining from sexual morality. It's restraining from lust.

It's so on and so forth. So it would make sense that okay, you've heard it said, you know, give a tenth. But I say unto you be a cheerful giver. Because that goes straight to the heart and it's gonna be more intense.

Whatever you give. Compared to giving 10 out of you know wrote obedience. All right. Thank you for addressing those three questions. Are there any media that you would like to recommend that you've been consuming?

Recommended Books and Media on the Incarnation, Spiritual Disciplines, and Culture

All right. I've got another book the God who became human by Graham Cole a biblical theology of incarnation and he starts off with the theophanies or Christophanies in the Old Testament where God shows up in some sort of human form or angelic form.

Communicating with those who are expecting to die because we've seen God but somehow they are spared and that's everything from you know Abraham talking to God as one would talk to a friend or Moses talking with God in the burning bush and All the way down the line all of these Christophanies and theophanies are preparations for the incarnation so that's interesting to see that from the Old Testament and then going on into the The New Testament and the meaning and the importance of the incarnation.

I recommend it because the incarnation He does a good job with the doctrine. But the incarnation is the central most essential doctrine of doctrines.

We talked a lot about different spiritual disciplines in recent years. We there have been a lot of very popular authors who have done this. You have John Piper's hunger for God. You have Richard Foster's done the celebration discipline.

You had Jerry bridges who also did some work on personal holiness and the spiritual disciplines and Although I think that you can get a lot of value from those books on Fasting or prayer or you know tithing and there's those kinds of things he calls spiritual disciplines I'm gonna caution you for jumping right to that.

The book that I'm actually going to recommend is by John MacArthur and it's called slave. And it's your identity in Christ, and I think if you start from Who you are in Christ who Christ is those other disciplines sort of they fall into it.

Not just take care of themselves, but they're improper perspective. And then if you can want to pursue fasting for example then I think some of those books that kind of give you some of the particulars may make a lot more sense and Keep from going off the deep end.

So start with who you are in Christ slave John MacArthur.

So I do a lot of commuting. During my commutes I listen and listen to content. There's a ministry by a congregation in Simi Valley, California Blessed Hope Chapel pastor Joe Schimmel. He has a ministry that he's had on YouTube for oh Years now I've been very grateful for it, but recently it's called good fight ministries.

You can find them on a YouTube on YouTube channel. His son-in-law Chad Davidson is the host mainly for the show. They cover lots of different topics. But most recently they had one on the rise of transgenderism and the role that pornography plays in culture.

He also addressed it from you know Christian standpoint with Pornography being something that doesn't get talked about much. It's. It's a shameful thing, but it might be why it doesn't get talked about much.

But this this episode it's about a 30-minute episode. He tied in academic research about the what pornography does how it affects people he tied it into some current events with some popular YouTube channels and You know transitioning.