10/4/2013 The Trinity & Tawid Debate - White vs Bux

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James White debates Islamic apologist Yusuf Bux at the University of Johannesburg in South Africa. Visit the store at https://doctrineandlife.co/

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The following presentation is a production of Alpha and Omega Ministries, Inc. and is protected by copyright laws of the
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United States and its international treaties. Copying or distribution of this production without the expressed written permission of Alpha and Omega Ministries, Inc.
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is prohibited. The topic for tonight is a dialogue on the Trinity and Tawheed, a
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Muslim and a Christian dialogue. You know, in our world today, people think that Muslims and Christians cannot dialogue and talk together, and we as South Africans had to import people, well, from America, next week we've got
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Dr. Shabbir Ali, to show and to prove to the world that we can. As a rainbow nation, we've got, and I just want you to give yourself an applause, because that is a wonderful achievement.
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I just also want to note that the IPCI will do the recording tonight and afterwards a master copy will be handed to all the sides of the debate, so if you want a copy of the dialogue that we have tonight, you're welcome to purchase it from all the
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IPCI, or Antwoord, if you type that in on the internet, not the band
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Da Antwoord, please, it's just Afrikaans for the answer, and you're welcome to get it from their website as well.
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What I just quickly want to do is reflect with you on the structure of the debate for tonight, or the dialogue for tonight, due to the fact that we really need to lay down what we want to achieve.
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First of all, there will be four categories that we will look at and that we will go through. Number one, we will have a conversation about the objective facts.
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What we will do is we will give a definition on our concept of God, as deduced for Yusuf Pax from the concept of the
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Quran, under Tawheed, the concept of Tawheed, and then from Dr. White's perspective, a biblical reaction or biblical definition on the
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Trinity. Every speaker's got 15 minutes from the lecture and right over here, and they can speak from here.
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After that, we're going to have questions about the objective ideas, which simply means that Mr. Yusuf Pax can give objections to the doctrine of the
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Trinity in 10 minutes, and likewise, Dr. White can give objections to the doctrine of Tawheed from a
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Christian perspective. What we're going to do after that is we're going to enter into the third section of the dialogue, and we're going to have crossfire questions where each speaker is going to have approximately 15 minutes, which would equate to five questions, two minutes each with a response, a brief response from both sides to each other, which would be good.
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Yusuf Pax will go first with his five questions on the Trinity, and then Dr. White will follow with that with five questions on the concept of Tawheed and the
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Trinity for 15 minutes. And then after that, we will have our closing statements, and that will be the night.
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I will now ask just from the Muslim side and ask everybody just to respect that we can have
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Iman Moulana Pandor and Sheikh Sultan from Egypt basically coming to do the prayer for the
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Muslim part of the debate, so we can invite them to come do that for us right now.
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Thank you very much. Iman Moulana Pandor.
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Iman Moulana Pandor.
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First of all, since you just mentioned the avatar, I think you're thinking about the exchange between William Lane Craig and Yusuf Ismail, where Dr.
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Craig used the avatar model in the same way that Dr. Craig used the carabass model. I hope that you will tell folks that I have publicly rebuked and challenged
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William Lane Craig over the abuse of both of those, and I think any Orthodox biblical theologian would challenge him on both of those things.
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And likewise, I have pointed out that I reject the grounds of the question for one simple reason.
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If you're talking about a model in the sense of an analogy to something in creation or something else that would be like that, since we believe the
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Incarnation is absolutely unique, just as God's eternity is absolutely unique, nothing else is eternal as God is.
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Since we believe the Incarnation to be absolutely unique, there can be nothing to which it can be compared, because if you could compare something about creation with it, it would no longer be unique.
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And so there is one time, and only one time, where God has entered into humanity in the way he did that.
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Now, there were physical manifestations of God for various purposes in the Old Testament. Yahweh walked with Abraham by the
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Oaks of Mamre in Genesis 18 and 19, and ironically, in Genesis 18 and 19, Yahweh on earth rains fire and brimstone from Yahweh in heaven upon Sodom and Gomorrah.
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So you have two Yahwehs there, yet one God, according to the Old Testament. But since it's absolutely unique that at that one time
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Jesus takes on a human nature and lives as a man, there can be no analogy to it, simply because if there was an analogy, then there would be other things in the created order, and the
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Incarnation would not be unique. And so the answer to your question is, no, I cannot. It is a revealed doctrine, just as the eternity of Allah is a revealed doctrine and has no created analogy that could go with it.
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Question four. Jesus curses the fig tree. Jesus God was hungry.
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He saw in the distance a fig tree covered with leaves. So when he went to see if he could find any figs on it, but when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves, because it was not the right time for figs.
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Jesus said to the fig tree, no one shall ever eat figs from you again.
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I would like you to concentrate on what Mark's gospel says. Only Mark's gospel.
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By Mark mentioning it was not the right time or season for figs,
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Mark has shown Jesus' knowledge was limited. Can you explain that, please?
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As I have many, many times with all respect to Yusuf, this is one of the worst examples of Islamic misunderstanding of the
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New Testament. And I call upon my Muslim friends, please, as I have invested hours in attempting to understand the
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Quran in its context, spent hours with an Arabic tutor to try to have the rudimentary tools, would you please listen to what
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I say here? There is a reason for the story of the cursing of the fig tree. Jesus is going to Jerusalem for the last time.
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He is going into the temple. He's going to give the Olivet Discourse where he is going to prophesy the destruction of the temple, the raising of the temple down to its very foundation stones.
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He is going to speak about how the nation of Israel looks like it's godly, but it is empty of godliness and that the scribes and Pharisees are hypocrites.
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And the fig tree represents Israel. The fig tree wasn't supposed to have leaves, but it had lots of leaves.
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In other words, it was giving an indication of something that was not a part of its reality. It, like Israel, was pretending to be something it was not.
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And so just as the curse of God came upon the people of Israel in the destruction of the temple in AD 70,
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Jesus shows this in the cursing of the fig tree. It is a picture of the people of Israel. This is
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Mark's intention. This is Matthew's intention. This is simply reading the New Testament for the purpose it was given by its authors.
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It was not Mark's intention to say that Jesus was ignorant of when figs came out.
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It was his intention to demonstrate that Jesus' actions in the Olivet Discourse were mirrored in his condemnation of this fig tree, which was pretending to be something it was not, just as Israel was pretending to be something it was not.
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Shall we please put this away and get to things that really matter? Please, let's do it.
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Thank you. Right. Question five.
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I gave you an example of violence and killings in the Old Testament. Was Jesus, as part of the
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Trinity God, responsible for these killings and many others in the Old Testament?
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And how could he be a God of war and violence and this passive turn -the -other -cheek
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God? Does this mean he's got two different personalities and they're two different gods with different personalities?
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Can you explain that? It's very sad to me that in a dialogue on Trinity and Tawhid we are discussing a standard objection that atheists raise to the
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God of the Bible in that in the Old Testament we have God bringing his judgment upon, for example, the
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Amorites. Even though he had patiently borne with them, notice that it specifically says in the
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Old Testament that God's judgment did not come until their transgression was full. It's a shame to me that instead of dealing with the actual relationship of our faith in regards to our view of God, that I have to be responding to objections that are normally raised by people like Lawrence Krauss, the atheist from the
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United States. But let me just briefly do so. The God of the Old Testament is a
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God of justice, but he is also a God of tremendous mercy and grace, just as the God of the
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New Testament is a God of justice and wrath against sin, as he also is a
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God of mercy and grace. Those who fall under his judgment do so always only justly.
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God could call every single one of us out of existence right now and bring us into his presence and judge us for our sinfulness.
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That is the holy God of the Bible of the New Testament and the holy God of the Bible of the Old Testament. But that same holy
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God is the one who has provided a perfect way to stand before him in his perfect justice, but there's only one way.
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I must be clothed in the perfect righteousness of Jesus Christ. That is why Jesus had to be the
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God -man, so that I could have that righteousness and stand in his presence. I have peace with God tonight, folks, not because of anything in me and not because of anything
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I've done, but because I am clothed in the perfect righteousness of Jesus Christ. And see, I'd like to talk more about that because it goes back to our view of Trinity and Tawhid.
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That's the real issue that we need to be dealing with. That's the direction we need to be moving. In our conversations with one another.
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What we're going to do now is we're going to give Dr. Watt an opportunity for 15 minutes to ask questions to Joseph Butts, and he can then respond.
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You made the claim that the Kama Yohaniyim had been taken out of the Bible and this is the only place where the doctrine of the
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Trinity is actually explicitly taught. If, in point of fact, this text is so vital to the doctrine of the
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Trinity, could you show me any place in the first 400 years of the
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Christian experience, so from the time of the closing of the New Testament for 400 years after that, that any
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Christian cited that text as their foundation for believing in the doctrine of the Trinity? Well, this is in the
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King James Version of 1611, right? It's there in the 66 books here, right?
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Which many Protestants were using and swearing an oath by. And all of a sudden,
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Dr. Watt is thrown out in this one here. I mean, that's...
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And Christians used to... At one stage, I used to go to the Catholic church, you know?
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And many times, Christians quote that verse. John 5, verse 7.
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For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, and these three are one.
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But, I mean, this is not really my problem or my issue. This is a Christian issue.
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Why is it in this Bible and it's not in this Bible, you know?
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Here's the Roman Catholic Bible. 73 books, right?
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In this newer version of the Catholic... Excuse me, I'm not hearing an answer to my question. Did you not understand it?
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I don't really understand what you're saying. I'm sorry, let me clarify it. If this verse is so central to defining the doctrine of the
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Trinity, can you show me anyone in the first 400 years after Jesus that cited it in defining the doctrine of the
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Trinity? But it's in your
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Bible. That's what I'm trying to say, Dr. Watt. Chapter 5, verse 7, it's there.
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Many Christians say this is God's Word. I mean, come on, man, it's here.
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I mean, I don't get your question. I don't get what you're saying. It's here. It's in the
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Bible. It's in the King James. We'll move on. It was your assertion that the doctrine of the
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Trinity was established at the Council of Nicaea in A .D. 325. Could you please respond to these statements made by Ignatius, Bishop of Antioch in A .D.
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107, which is 218 years before that?
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There is one physician of flesh and of spirit, generate and ingenerate, God in man, true life and death, both from Mary and from God, first passable and impassable,
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Jesus Christ, our Lord. By the will of the Father and of Jesus Christ, our God. For our
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God, Jesus Christ. And finally, await the one who is above every season, the eternal, the invisible, the one who for our sake became visible, the untouched, the impassable, who for our sake suffered, who endured in every way for our sake.
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Could you please explain if the doctrine of the Trinity didn't come about until 325, why Ignatius could say these words in A .D.
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107? The doctrine of the Trinity in 325 was over time.
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It was a council of bishops. Ignatius of Antioch provides early support, yes, around 110, right?
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Exhorting obedience to Christ and to the Father and to the spirit, right?
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But this idea of the Trinity doctrine, it came over time.
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Look at that, 110 after Christ. And nobody knew about it. It's amazing, you know?
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And then at the Council of Nicaea, the Nicaean Creed came in, the
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Athanasian Creed, right? And then still after that, it still continued till the 8th century to become doctrine until it was basically completed in Christian doctrine.
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So it actually took basically 800 years. I understand what you're saying, 110 years, but I mean that's 110 years after Jesus, and nobody knew about it.
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Amazing, Dr. White. Okay. I would like to get your understanding, please, of the words of Thomas to Jesus when he says in John 20, verse 28, which
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I would translate as Thomas answered and said to him, dative singular, my kurios, my
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Lord, and my God. Could you please explain these words in light of your assertion that the
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New Testament does not teach this doctrine, especially in light of Jesus' response found in verse 29? When I met you,
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Dr. White, I said, Dr. White, my God, it is you. I kind of answered it for you, you know?
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Right, the disciples were assembled, Jesus came and stood in the mist and said to them, peace be with you, shalom aleichem, like we say, shalom aleichem.
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When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side, then the disciples were glad when they saw the
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Lord. Seeing and believing. Now Thomas, called the twin, one of the 12, was not with them when
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Jesus came. The other disciples therefore said to him, we have seen the
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Lord. So he said to them, unless I see in his hands the print of the nails and put my finger into the print of the nails and put my hand into his side,
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I will not believe, will not believe in the crucifixion, not that he's God. Not believe what?
01:26:08
That he's God? No, that he won't believe in the crucifixion. And after eight days his disciples were again inside and Thomas with them.
01:26:20
Jesus came, the doors being shut, and stood in the mist and said, peace be with you.
01:26:26
Then he said to Thomas, reach your finger here and look at my hands and reach your hand here and put it into my side.
01:26:34
Do not be unbelieving, but be believing. And Thomas answered and said to him, my
01:26:41
Lord and my God. I mean, he's just putting out an expression.
01:26:47
When I met you I said, Dr. White, my God, you know, I was shocked to see you. I've seen you on the internet, you know.
01:26:54
I mean, please, man, it's not even mentioned in the other three gospels, right?
01:26:59
It's only mentioned in John's gospel. John has added his own theology and John has exaggerated this gospel of his.
01:27:09
Thank you. I believe that was my third. I would like to use my fourth to redirect on the same text if I could, please.
01:27:19
You did not answer a rather clear fact. It seems that your answer would be that the phrase, my
01:27:30
God, is being addressed to someone other than Jesus. Could you please comment, sir, on the day or alto in the original language?
01:27:37
Thomas answered and said to him. It is singular. It is not plural. And if you think that there is a disjunctive use of kai between hakuri asumu and kai, and hathe asumu, could you please give us scholarly substantiation of the differentiation?
01:27:53
The word for Lord is, I've forgotten in Greek, what is it? Koreos. Koreos, right.
01:28:00
Koreos and theos. Can you put them together? Right? That means it's two parts of the trinity.
01:28:06
That means it's Jesus, the Lord, and the Father, theos, God. So, you know, what
01:28:14
I'm trying to tell you is, Dr. Wine, is, you know, it's such a weak case you are giving us.
01:28:19
I mean, when I go to court and I call the judge, my Lord, my
01:28:24
Lord, my worship, am I worshiping him? No. You know, like I say, show me in the other three gospels the same story where Thomas said this to Jesus, and I'll believe too.
01:28:39
It's not there. It's John's theology. John made it up. It's not in the other gospels.
01:28:45
It's amazing. But he wasn't referring to Jesus as being a
01:28:52
God. He's just, like, shocked and saying, my Lord and my
01:28:58
God, that you're alive, man. That's how I see it.
01:29:03
You know what I'm saying? Okay. Last question. Not out of the
01:29:10
Gospel of Mark. It's one of those other, Gospel of John, it's one of those other three. Mark chapter 14, verse 61 says, but he, this is the trial of Jesus, but he kept silent and did not answer.
01:29:22
Again, the high priest was questioning him and saying to him, are you the Christ, the son of the blessed one?
01:29:28
And Jesus said, I am, and you shall see the son of man sitting at the right hand of power and coming with the clouds of heaven.
01:29:37
Tearing his clothes, the high priest said, what further need do we have of witnesses? You have heard the blasphemy. How does it seem to you?
01:29:43
And they all condemned him to be deserving of death. Could you please explain how Jesus not only says he is the son of God, but then quotes from Daniel chapter 8 about the son of man who has followers who give him
01:29:58
Latreuo, the highest form of worship, applied these things to himself and was understood by the
01:30:04
Jewish high priest as having committed blasphemy. Could you explain this text to us, please, in light of your comments?
01:30:09
Okay, number one, Dr. White, my position is
01:30:16
I feel John's gospel is very exaggerated, right? I would like to know from you right now, is it in the other three gospels before I start?
01:30:28
Sorry, question time is now, Dr. White, you need to answer. Okay, no problem. It's not in the other three gospels, the same story.
01:30:36
So, again, John has exaggerated this gospel. In John's gospel…
01:30:42
Excuse me, sir, I'm not asking about the gospel of John. The text, did you misunderstand? It's Mark chapter 14. I know what you're saying, but I'm putting my point through that this is exaggerated.
01:30:51
What I'm trying to say, I don't believe what's written there. I don't believe that if that is so important, what
01:30:58
I'm trying to say to you is, you see, I'm a simple man, right? I tell you how it is.
01:31:05
What I'm trying to say is that this is not found in the other three gospels, right?
01:31:12
It's John's theology. It's like John 1 -1. John 1 -1 about the logos and the theos is taken from Greek.
01:31:24
Why are we talking about John, sir? I'm in Mark. John's, which gospel are you in now? This is
01:31:29
Mark chapter 14. Could we stop and let's try this one more time?
01:31:34
Because we're clearly missing each other. I'm getting mixed up here. Let me try this one more time. Do you have a Bible in front of you? Yeah, right.
01:31:40
Good news Bible, oh well. Apologize for that.
01:31:47
You can tell where my translational prejudice is lying. Could you look at the gospel of Mark, please? Mark chapter 14, verse 61.
01:31:57
Okay, so this is not John, this is Mark. Okay, 61. Let me read it again.
01:32:08
But he kept silent and did not answer. Again, the high priest was questioning him and saying to him, Are you the
01:32:13
Christ, the son of the blessed one? And Jesus said, I am, and you shall see the
01:32:19
Son of Man sitting at the right hand of power and coming with the clouds of heaven. Tearing his clothes, the high priest said,
01:32:24
What further need do we have of witnesses? You have heard the blasphemy. How does it seem to you? And they all condemned him to be deserving of death.
01:32:31
Now the citation in verse 62 is from the book of Daniel about the Son of Man who appears before the
01:32:37
Ancient of Days. And the Son of Man in the book of Daniel is given worship. Jesus applied these words to himself.
01:32:44
The Jews understood him to be claiming deity. They tear his clothes and said, Why do we have further need of witnesses?
01:32:49
He's blasphemed. This isn't John, this is Mark. So, can you tell me how you understand that these words could be uttered by Jesus?
01:33:01
All right, number one, right? Son of the blessed God, right? He's saying that there's many sons in the
01:33:10
Bible, right? Jesus, in the Jewish terminology, Jesus is basically saying he's the Son of God.
01:33:15
He's a pious man, right? And Jesus said to him,
01:33:23
You will see the Son of Man seated on the right of the Almighty, right? So that's two persons of the
01:33:30
Godhead, the Trinity, like you're saying, right? And with the clouds of heaven, the high priest tore his robes and said,
01:33:38
We don't need any more witnesses. You heard this blaspheme. What is your decision?
01:33:44
Okay, I mean, again, in John, Jesus tells these priests that they pick up stones, right?
01:34:02
He says, For what do you stone me? They say, For blasphemy. He says, But I say that ye are gods.
01:34:09
I say that I'm just a son of God, right? So there and here, you know,
01:34:16
I don't really have much of an answer for you there. All right, thank you. Thank you.
01:34:24
Thank you very much, gentlemen. What we're going to do now is we're going to have closing statements. What we're going to do is not interject with any new points.
01:34:31
What we're going to do is just sum up and conclude our thoughts that was espoused. First, we're going to ask
01:34:36
Yusuf Pax in five minutes to conclude. Bismillah ar -Rahman ar -Rahim.
01:34:43
In the name of Almighty God, most gracious, most merciful. I have proved without a shadow of a doubt that the
01:34:50
Trinity is not a biblical belief. That not one prophet in the entire
01:34:55
Bible taught it. That Jesus, peace be upon him, never taught it. So why believe in something no prophet taught?
01:35:03
Something Jesus, peace be upon him, never taught. Furthermore, the concept of the
01:35:08
Trinity is fundamental to most Christian denominations. Yet it is the very same
01:35:14
Trinity that remains the biggest single divider in the Christian world today.
01:35:20
The Jehovah's Witness and the Seven -Day Adventists are coming closer to Islam in their rejection of the
01:35:27
Trinity. Christian brothers and sisters, it is my humble request that you too consider the points
01:35:34
I have raised carefully. I urge Christians to go back to worshipping the one true
01:35:40
God that Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad, peace be upon them, all worshipped.
01:35:47
Abraham, peace be upon him, the father of monotheism, never worshipped a triune three -in -one
01:35:54
God. He never worshipped Jesus, peace be upon him. He never worshipped a ghost.
01:36:00
He only worshipped God alone. The Quran had to come to take us back to worshipping the one true
01:36:08
God. This was the mission of the prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, to take mankind back to the worship of the one true
01:36:16
God, creator of everything, one without partners and sons. Come right with God now, as according to Islam, the only sin that God will not forgive is to ascribe partners, sons and triune gods with him.
01:36:33
This is a sure guarantee to damnation. Come to the truth of the one God. Worship the only
01:36:39
God that Jesus worshipped. If it was not for Islam, the true message of Jesus, peace be upon him, would be lost forever.
01:36:48
Islam is the way to God. Islam brings us back to worshipping the one true
01:36:53
God of Abraham and all of the prophets of God. Allah, there is no
01:36:58
God but he, the living, the self -subsisting, eternal.
01:37:04
No slumber can seize him, nor sleep. His are all things in the heavens and on earth.
01:37:11
Who is there that can intercede in his presence except as he permitteth?
01:37:17
He knows what appeareth to his creatures as before or after, behind them.
01:37:24
Nor shall they compass ought of his knowledge except as he willeth. His throne extends over the heavens and the earth, and he feels no fatigue in guarding and preserving them.
01:37:37
For he is the most high, the supreme in glory, Al -Quran 225.
01:37:42
It was a vote of men that established the Trinity, not revelation from God.
01:37:50
Christianity has rejected the God of Abraham and replaced him with a pagan invention.
01:37:57
La ilaha illallah, there is no God but one. Thank you
01:38:03
Dr. White, Rudolf, the IPCI, Aunt Wood, and to such a great audience.
01:38:11
Thank you very much. And now we've got
01:38:18
Dr. White with his five minutes closing statement. Thank you Dr. White. First of all, once again, let me thank everyone for being here this evening for this rather brief dialogue on a very important subject.
01:38:28
I would like to thank Yusuf for his participation and provide you with a book.
01:38:33
This is an excellent book by a friend of mine on the prophetic proofs in the Old Testament of the Messiahship of Jesus.
01:38:39
I dragged it all the way halfway around the world for you. I hope you enjoy it. As long as it's signed.
01:38:45
Well, I'm not William Webster, but I can fake a signature. So, we have to use equal scales.
01:38:56
And I believe I have demonstrated very, very clearly this evening that when we analyze the text of Scripture in a meaningful fashion, that it presents to us the fact that Jesus is identified as Yahweh.
01:39:11
No meaningful interaction has been provided by Mr. Books to my presentation on these issues.
01:39:17
He has denied it, but in the cross -examination we saw that when you actually get into the text and look at the material, he did not have any answers.
01:39:25
He cannot deal with the fact that the grammar of John 20, 28 absolutely denies his interpretation.
01:39:31
He can't read the language, so he can't deny that. He can't deal with it. He couldn't deal with Jesus' own words.
01:39:36
It's interesting to me that Muslims will quote words from the Gospel of John about Muhammad, but then later on when they have words about the deity of Jesus, well,
01:39:46
I just don't believe that's true. Where's the equal scales? What if I did that to the Quran? What if I interpreted your book the way you interpret mine?
01:39:55
If I'm going to say there's something wrong with a text in your book, I'm going to give you manuscript evidence that there's something wrong with it.
01:40:02
Muslims never do that with me. Why is there such a double standard, my friends?
01:40:08
Because, folks, this is a vitally important issue. Did you hear what we were talking about? This is not just an issue for us to go, well,
01:40:16
I'm just going to repeat what I've always been told. I submit to you that this issue goes to the very heart of how it is that we have peace with God.
01:40:26
And if you're here this evening, Muslim, Christian, maybe not know what you are,
01:40:35
I want to have a message for you right now. I believe I have peace with God, not because of who
01:40:40
I am or what I've done. I have peace with God because of what Jesus Christ has done for me. And the only way he could do for me what would allow me to stand in the presence of a holy
01:40:50
God is if he was the God -man. No mere prophet could give his life upon Calvary's tree because any prophet was himself a sinner and under the wrath of God.
01:40:59
But Jesus was not. He was virgin -born as we all believe. But why was he virgin -born? He did not bear that penalty of sin.
01:41:08
And as the perfect God -man, he went to the one place where all of the wrath and holiness of God could meet all of the love and compassion and mercy of God.
01:41:19
And that's the cross of Calvary. The cross of Calvary is a historic fact. And the person who died upon it was a historic fact as well.
01:41:29
And you see, when I have repentance and faith, when I repent of my sins and put my faith and trust in that God -man,
01:41:36
Jesus Christ, I receive his righteousness, and that is the only way I can ever have peace with a holy
01:41:42
God. And that's why this subject is so important this evening. And I say to every
01:41:48
Muslim in this audience, if what I have said is true, and if you're honest with the arguments, you know my arguments were not even addressed, let alone refuted.
01:41:58
If my arguments are true, then I ask you a question. How can you leave this room this evening thinking
01:42:04
Jesus is merely a prophet? What if I'm right? What if God has provided for you a perfect way of salvation, a perfect way of peace with him, that is not based upon your doing of good deeds?
01:42:16
I do good deeds out of love for God, not to add something to what Jesus Christ has done for me. But if Jesus Christ is your creator, if the words that were written 600 years before Muhammad are true, by him were all things made in the heavens and the earth, visible and invisible, principalities, powers, dominions, and authorities, all things are created by him and for him.
01:42:38
He is before all things, and in him all things. They hold together. That means you.
01:42:45
He holds you in his hand. Can you dismiss him as a mere prophet?
01:42:53
That is the question that lay before you. And that is why I continue to await a consistent
01:42:58
Islamic response to Christianity. I've never heard it. I didn't hear it this evening. I await it.
01:43:06
I long for it. I ask for it. Someday, I hope we can have that kind of dialogue together.
01:43:13
Thank you for being here this evening. Thank you, everyone.
01:43:23
Thank you for behaving. If you have any questions, please do not flock after the speakers afterwards. They're quite tired, and they've prepared, and they are very tired.
01:43:32
But you're also welcome to get some of the literature at the book table. You're also welcome to get some literature that might address some of your questions outside by the various tables.