August 20, 2020 Show with Rob Ventura on “The 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith”

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions, and now here's your host,

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Thursday on this 20th day of August, 2020, and I am thrilled to have back on the program

Rob Ventura. He is an author and one of two pastors at Grace Community Baptist Church in North Providence, Rhode Island, and he's an instructor at Rhode Island School of the

Bible. Today we are going to be addressing the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith. We're also going to be talking about some publishing projects that Rob is involved in, including a new exposition of the 1689

London Baptist Confession of Faith, also known as the Second London Confession, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Rob Ventura.

Thanks so much, Chris. Well, first of all, let our listeners know about Grace Community Baptist Church of North Providence, Rhode Island.

Yes, Grace Community Baptist Church has been around about 35 years.

It is a confessional, Reformed Baptist Church. I'm thankful to be there 13 years full -time with my fellow elder,

Jack Buckley, and the founding pastor of the church was Sherwood Becker, who went to be with the

Lord several years ago, but he left us a very good church in good shape, doctrinally and in other ways, and it's just been a privilege to serve the people of God here in New England.

It's such a privilege to preach and teach the Word of God to them on a weekly basis.

Why don't you also tell us about the Rhode Island School of the Bible? Yes, we started Rhode Island School of the Bible about five years ago as just a small

Bible school out of our church, but the Lord has really blessed it, and to date we've taught over 100 students from 30 different churches, and we just encourage what the

Lord has done there. We teach twice a year, two semesters, and I've had various pastors in to help assist with that work, and we've taught

Greek and Hebrew and biblical counseling and various systematic theologies and disciplines, so it's been really a tremendous blessing to those who are in New England.

We've got people coming from different places, and the feedback continues to be good, so we hope to press on for this second semester, but because of COVID we decided to cancel, but we are scheduled to restart in the new year in March for our first semester, so it's just been a real blessing just trying to raise the bar with the biblical illiteracy in New England.

We're like one of the lowest states when it comes to Bible knowledge, so we've been trying by the grace of God to teach people, and again, it's been a real blessing and encouragement to see the

Lord prosper that work. Great. Well, if anybody knows, I should say, if anybody wants to know more about Grace Community Baptist Church of North Providence, Rhode Island, you can go to gcbcri .org,

that's gcbc for Grace Community Baptist Church, ri for rhodeisland .org,

and if you want more information on the Rhode Island School of the Bible, you can go to risbible .org,

risbible .org, and hopefully we'll be remembering to repeat that information later on in the program.

Well, tell us, before we go into our main theme of the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith, which is obviously no small topic to cover, we're not even going to pretend to exhaust the subject today.

We could spend months talking about the Second London Baptist Confession of Faith, even though it is a relatively small document, and it's still rich with theological truth and biblical truth.

But tell us about some of these other projects first that you've got going on in the publishing realm.

Yeah, besides the weekly preaching, teaching, counseling, and everything else that's on a busy pastor's plate,

I'm very thankful the Lord has opened some doors for some new book projects. A couple on the plate is, firstly, the commentary that I'm writing on the book of Romans.

There was a time when last semester I was teaching Romans at the Rhode Island School of the Bible, preaching

Romans verse by verse to my church, I'm still doing that. And then writing on Romans all at once, so I was all

Romans -ed out. Again, it was just so much Romans preaching, and then again teaching at a

Bible school, and then coming home and writing the commentary. So it's a labor of love,

I'm very excited for the work. Romans is obviously a wonderful book, it's the chief epistle in the

New Testament, as Calvin himself said, it's the key to unlocking all of the

Bible. And as I was working through Romans, certainly having many commentaries on Romans, it's a very well -served book.

But I noticed there were some things that I was really lacking as a pastor, that some of the commentaries didn't have, such as nice homiletical outlines, really accessible

Greek for the pastor, and applications just from the text.

So I just started doing some writing, and I am about halfway done, halfway through Romans 8, which is where my preaching is at.

And actually again this semester we're not teaching a Rhode Island School of the Bible, but in about two weeks

I'll be teaching a course to a bunch of men in Medellin, Colombia, on Romans.

So I'm excited about the commentary on Romans, I'm getting good feedback from it, and I just about four or five weeks ago signed a publishing deal with Christian Focus Mentor Books for that commentary.

So pray, my dear brother, and those listening, that I'll get it done, because it's not easy writing a commentary, let me just say that.

There's just so much interaction with other writers and scholars that you need to do that it is overwhelming.

But again, the Lord's giving help, so I'm encouraged. And then besides that, as you probably know,

I know you've interviewed our dear friend Greg Nichols on the program, and I think you'll have him back soon.

We are in the process of putting out his Volume 4 of his Systematic Theology, hopefully it'll be a seven -volume set.

Volume 4 will be on the doctrine of the Church. This is really Greg's magnum opus.

Anyone who's known Greg as a teacher, he's taught for, oh I don't know, 35, 40 years, many courses.

He was one of my Systematic Theology professors, along with Sam Waldron and Robert Martin.

But Greg, out of all the courses he taught, Doctrine of the Church was definitely what he's most well -known for.

So remember Greg, and remember me as I will begin editing that book soon.

And we hope to have it out this year again, Volume 4 in Nichols' Systematic Theology, just a tremendous volume.

I've said it numerous times, there's nothing in the English language on the Church compared to what

Pastor Nichols is doing. It's just simply outstanding. So besides Romans and Pastor Nichols, we just finished putting together a festrift on Al Martin.

A festrift is a German word which means a collection of essays in honor of another. And we just put that together for Pastor Martin and submitted that to a publisher.

And I've got several authors on that. I did that in conjunction with Pastor David Charles, a wonderful brother in the

Lord who actually approached me with the project. I've been helping him here and there with it, but he asked if I would just collaborate on a more official level.

I did, and we got that book together. And Dr. Beeky did the foreword for it.

We're excited about that. And we should know, perhaps even this week, if one well -known publisher is going to publish it.

So lots of good things on the plate, and again, lots of things keeping me busy these days.

But thanks for asking. Well, if you want to learn more about these projects and keep up to date with them, obviously you can go to the

Grace Community Baptist Church of North Providence, Rhode Island website that we just mentioned and contact

Pastor Ventura there. Again, that's gcbcri .org,

and we'll repeat that later on as well. Well, we are going to be just sticking our toes in the water of a discussion on the 1689

London Baptist Confession of Faith. It is known as the Second London Baptist Confession of Faith.

And that is the topic of an exposition that you are publishing.

And you have somewhere in the area, I believe, 20 different contributors. Is that right?

That is correct. What an amazing thing it is to get 20 Reformed Baptist pastors from all over the world to submit their chapters to me on time.

I tell people to get three Reformed Baptist pastors to do anything on time is amazing, but let alone 20.

So I'm super thankful for the men who have labored to get me their chapters, and I give a little background on this whole project if you'd like.

Oh, definitely. Yeah, so I was recently writing a chapter for Dr.

Beeky's new book that just came out maybe six weeks ago called Growing in Grace, and that's from a conference that I was privileged to be part of last year.

And it was just on all different topics with reference to Growing in Grace. Well, I happened to preach at his conference on adoption, and then that sermon, not that sermon per se, but at least that topic, had to be done in book form, a chapter for his new book

Growing in Grace, which again has all of the speakers from the conference in it. So as I was thinking about how

I would do this chapter in a more fuller sense, I decided to expound for them the

Westminster Confession of Faith. Of course, that's the Pado -Baptist Confession of Faith, most well -known.

So as I was doing that, I was looking, of course, at our own London Baptist Confession of Faith, and there's maybe one or two word difference between the two, very, very similar.

I think it's actually the shortest chapter in the Confession of Faith. But as I was doing it,

I noticed that, man, we only have one exposition of our Confession of Faith, although there's another one out there.

I don't think it's available in America for distribution yet, but done by my very dear friend

Scott Meadows, and he might be working on a newer one, so that's something to keep an eye out for as well.

But the main one that we have is, as far as I'm aware, is the one by Dr.

Sam Waldron, the classic work we have, an exposition of the London Baptist Confession of Faith.

But as I was looking at the Westminster guys and all the various guys who have written on it, whether it's

Shaw, or R .C. Sproul, or Joey Pipe, or any of those guys, there were so many done by the various Pado -Baptist men on their

Confession of Faith, but as far as I know, we only have one. So as I was thinking about that whole thing,

I thought, you know what, it's time for us to do a new one. Sam's is 30 years old, and it was done by one guy.

And I thought, hmm, wouldn't it be nice just to have an updated one and get a bunch of men on it? So basically, the first guy

I called was Sam, and I said, Sam, hey, what do you think about this idea that I'm having for a new

Confession of Faith called a new exposition of the London Baptist Confession of Faith of 1689, updating it, you know, present issues that we deal with in our day, and having multiple authors.

He thought it was a great idea, and I said, well, that's great. I said, now would you do three chapters for me?

So he very graciously has done that, and then I pitched several other

Reformed Baptist pastors, some of guys who have been in the ministry for decades, and certainly pretty much all my mentors and fathers in the faith.

And as I said, they all turned around their chapters to me in a timely manner, and I was able to get the book together.

I've done a first edit on the book. Now it's sitting with my second editor, and then after that it will go to five readers.

And I hope to shop the book for a deal end of the year,

January, February, March, beginning of 2021. So super excited about it.

The men did really a great job, and I'm excited to have just a small part in this big project.

Well, I'm excited about it, too, and I'm looking forward to getting my copy when it's published.

I'll owe it to you after the interview. That's right. You will. And it's called

The Second London Baptist Confession of Faith for a Reason. Why did these dear saints of the 17th century find a compelling need to formulate the

Second London Baptist Confession when it is nearly entirely a word -for -word replica of the

Westminster Confession other than Baptist distinctives, when there already was a First London Baptist Confession that actually predated the

Westminster? That's correct, yes. So you have the First London Baptist Confession of Faith, 1644.

Then you've got the Westminster, 1646, 1647. You've got the Savoy, which was from the

Congregationalists in 1658. And then we have our 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith, although it really,

I mean, the date is really 1677. When it was out, it was already in existence before the 1689.

But you have the First London Baptist Confession of Faith, which means, I tell my dear Pato Baptist brethren, that we're not the new kids on the block.

Actually, they are, because, again, like you rightly said, our document was out before theirs.

But I think that having looked at the Westminster Confession of Faith and the

Savoy, two documents that the Reformed Baptists did lean on to produce the 1689, or the 1677, we might say, that they saw that certainly the

Pato Baptists did some great work in some great areas, and that the 1644 needed to be beefed up in some areas.

And that is seen in several places. I'm just going off the top of my head. I'm thinking the church and Sabbath and regular worship.

Those seem to be some particular areas that people who only hold to the 1644 would have differences with us who hold to the 1689.

But it's a wonderful document. It's amazing to be a pastor, 13 years full -time, and, again, to preach the

Word verse by verse, line upon line, precept upon precept, and to just be able to turn back to our historic

Confession of Faith, the Confession of Faith of our forefathers, and to look with how they dealt with so many issues, and just to be so blessed by them, to be standing on the shoulders of these men concerning those truths most surely believed among us, whether it be

God's decrees, or the Trinity, or Scripture, or the Law of God, or religious worship in the

Sabbath day, etc., just to have that historical connection, again, with these

Reformed Baptists, these particular Baptists from London, is just tremendous for us as Reformed Baptists living in our day.

You know, some people hear Reformed Baptists, they think, you know, what is that? Never heard of it. Well, if we didn't have these great historic

Confessions of Faith, again, we would be viewed as new kids on the block, but we're really not. What we preach is a historic faith.

These are the things most surely believed among us. You know, this is Spurgeon's Confession of Faith, the

London Baptist Confession of Faith, which, if my understanding is correct, when

Spurgeon was building the Met Tab there in London, he actually put right next to the foundation stone, the quarter stone of the building, a

Bible and the London Baptist Confession of Faith there into the foundation of the building.

So, again, these are historical documents, and these are historic truths, so nothing new, just that which the

Bible teaches and that which Reformed Calvinistic Baptists have always believed. And, of course, there is a divide amongst

Baptists. There probably always has been, but it's even a sharper divide today, where you have, obviously, those outside of Reformed Baptist theology who would be, with obvious reasons, opposed to the 1689

Confession, at least. Not all of it, because some of it is universal Christian truth, but the very specific things that are unique to Reformed Baptists they would reject.

But even amongst fellow Calvinists, there are varying degrees, a spectrum of views on being confessional.

There are even some Calvinist Baptists who are opposed to being confessional, and you have those that would not be in full subscription, and are even leery about the concept of being in full subscription, because they don't want to anchor themselves, they are thinking, to something that would prevent them from being

Berean. So, tell us about the whole concept of being confessional as a Baptist.

Yeah, I'm looking here at my editor's preface. I begin by saying it has been correctly said that true Christianity is confessional

Christianity, and that a church with a little creed is a church with a little life. And I go on to say that the true church has always confessed her faith openly, for there is a faith once for all delivered to the saints,

Jude 3. And I think that we need to understand that historically

Baptists were, again, not ashamed to put down what they believed on paper, and I think that we ought not to be ashamed of this as well.

Historically Baptists, again, put forth what they believed in confessions of faith, and they became the most widely held confession among the

Reformed Baptist churches in the English -speaking world. But there are those, again, like you said, who will say they hold to the confession, and various ones hold to it in various degrees, and I don't want to judge such ones.

I'm thankful that people are seeking to become confessional. There really is a revival in our day of confessionalism, and that's a wonderful thing to see in our day.

I've got this quote here, I think it's really great, B .H. Carroll. Carroll was a pastor and theologian and the first president of the

Southern Western Baptist Theological Seminary. He says this, quote, The modern cry, less creed and more liberty, is a degeneration from the vertebrae to the jellyfish, and means less unity and less morality, and it means more heresy.

Carroll says, quote, Definitive truth does not create heresy, it only exposes and corrects.

Shut off the creeds, and the Christian world would fill up with heresy, unsuspected and uncorrected, but nonetheless deadly.

So you see, Carroll, living in his day, he understood that confessions of faith are not that which is not a helper to truth.

No, confessions of faith set forth truth, and they help the truth. They continue to promote the truth.

And of course, as you know, many churches in our day, certainly not before Baptist churches, but just Baptist churches in general, broad evangelical churches, they are kind of anti -creed, anti -confessional, no confession but the

Bible alone, which of course is a famous statement by the cult group the Churches of Christ.

All of these places in our day, you just look at them and you ask, what is it you believe?

And they just say, well, we believe the Bible. Yeah, but the question is not just, oh, we believe the Bible, but what do you believe about the

Bible? You know, a Mormon can say, we believe in the Bible, or a Jehovah Witness, we believe in the Bible. Yeah, but what is it about the

Bible you believe? You know, we believe in Jesus. Well, which Jesus? So I think for a church to actually have a confession of faith that actually hammers out what we believe about particular items and matters in Scripture is super helpful, not only for people in the church already, but for people coming into the church and also for the world.

We're not ashamed of what we believe concerning the great doctrines of the Christian faith, again, whatever it might be, the

Trinity or God's decrees or His providences, so having them in a confessional standard for a church,

I think, is most helpful and most wise. And, of course, there is a bit of irony involved in the whole concept of a confession.

When you have those that claim to be anti -confessional and they say, we have no creed but Christ, no confession but the

Bible, that is a confession. Yes. And whenever you state what the

Bible teaches, you are uttering a confession of faith and the whole issue is whether you've written it down and how biblically faithful it is.

Everybody has a confession, whether they like to admit it or not. Well, that's right,

Chris, and also you see the Bible itself, there's confessional statements all throughout the Bible. You've got

Deuteronomy 6, the Shema of Israel, you've got Paul's faithful sayings, all of these confessions of faith.

This is a faithful saying. So, you've got Jude, again, speaking about the faith, which was what once for all delivered to the saints.

So, the Bible itself shows that there were these statements, there were these truths, these objective truths that the people of God were very familiar with and was spoken among them.

So, yeah, unfortunately, again, for churches to not hold to these historic confessions of faith,

I think, do great damage to the people. And again, just going back to my opening statement, I'm convinced that a little creed is a church with a little life.

If we don't have these robust doctrines before us, expounded, taught to our people,

I think the people wind up being spiritually anemic, and that's a crying shame. Well, why don't we go over the main emphasis of the 1689

London Baptist Confession, and just to repeat something that I hinted at earlier, this is not some enormous tome, this is not just filled with hundreds of pages of things that would even make

Reformed Baptists more sectarian, because there are even more jots and tittles that we want everyone to agree with.

Tell us about the main emphasis of it. There is brevity to it, and there is also, as I also mentioned before, there is universal truth in this, that Christians of all faithful denominations, and obviously we would believe some are more faithful than others, but those that we would call our brothers in Christ, there is much in this document that they could say a hearty amen to.

Absolutely, I think that really any Christian should be able to say yes and amen to much that's in this doctrine.

And when I meet people who are not Reformed, I will give them a confession of faith and ask them to read it, and often times they like it.

I remember for me, and I don't know how it was for you Chris, but when I was first coming into Reformed theology some,

I want to know, 25 years ago, when I first read a confession of faith, I think it was actually the

Westminster Shorter Catechism, I was blown away. What is repentance? Repentance is a spiritual grace unto life, all of the stuff that expounds on the same way.

Wow! You know what I mean? My jaws dropped looking at what is faith?

You look at all of these questions and seeing all of these robust answers and all of those scripture texts, and you're just thinking, man, how come

I don't hear about this kind of stuff in my own church? So it was a real blessing, and it was one of the reasons why

I eventually become Reformed and hold to a historic confession of faith. It's just amazing how rich the

Bible is and how helpful these documents are, not as a feather to our faith, but just as an aid to help us understand our faith, and to be a blessing to those who don't.

So yeah, the confession of faith itself, like you said, there is brevity there. It's 32 chapters, and it covers them in a very streamlined way.

Some chapters are more lengthy than others, certainly. The whole issue of the church, chapter 26, is extremely long, and our

London Baptist confession of faith is much longer than that, which is in the Savoy or the Westminster. But again, the

Baptists not only are copying, as it were, much of what was in these other documents, but they're expounding their particular nuances of these great doctrines, and it comes across especially in the church and in other areas.

Of course, personally, I believe that the London Baptist confession of faith does the best job of putting forth what the

Bible says. But of course, we are greatly indebted to those who have gone before us. I mean, what a great document

Savoy and Westminster are. But the

Baptists say, the particular Baptists in London, the 1689 writers, they say in the introduction that they're basically writing this to let their paedo -Baptist brethren know that on the one hand, they're not

Arminians, and on the other hand, they're not Antonomians. So I think this is still something that we come into when people hear about Reformed Baptists.

I mean, I think in our day, thankfully, most people would have some sense for who we are. But Chris, when

I was becoming Reformed back almost 30 years ago, it was like, what in the world is a

Reformed Baptist? I mean, even Calvinism. If you became a Calvinist, oh my word, you were just looked at very strangely.

I remember my Pentecostal pastor at the time telling me I bit the apple when I became a Calvinist. So everybody looks down at you.

But nowadays, it's celebrated. Of course, you've got the Calvinists all around town, whether it's John Piper or MacArthur or Paul Washer, good

Calvinist men and good preachers. But again, I think that back when, it was something that was not really appreciated.

But in our day, we're seeing a turn, and not only to Calvinism, but really a full -orbed

Reformed theology. You know, I put out a book several years ago called Going Beyond the Five Points, and it's a great book.

I can say that. I didn't write it. I just edited it. And basically in that book, I'm encouraging Calvinists in our day, again, those who align themselves with men like Dr.

John MacArthur and Piper and Paul Washer, to basically say to them, hey, look, you've embraced

Calvinism. That's awesome. But that's really the first rung on the ladder for Reformed truth.

Continue to go forward. So I've got some chapters in there by Sam Waldron on regular worship.

I've got Rich Barcellas on the law of God. I've got Earl Blackburn on the church and covenant theology.

And then the last chapter is by Bob Martin, the late Bob Martin, on the legitimacy and use of confessions of faith.

So basically that book, Going Beyond the Five Points, was kind of, just sought to be a helper to those who've embraced the doctrines of grace, to encourage them to keep going forward.

Go all the way. You know, follow this Reformed theology where it takes you.

So then you get the confession of faith and you have this wonderful treatment of these glorious doctrines, which are most surely believed among us.

Well, we have to go to our first station break. If you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own for Rob Ventura about the 1689

London Baptist Confession of Faith, or about Reformed Baptists in general, about Reformed theology in general.

Our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com. C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

As always, give us your first name, at least your city and state of residence, and your country of residence, if you live outside the

USA. And please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

For instance, if you are investigating these truths that my guest and I hold dear, and you're a bit intimidated or frightened to make yourself publicly known, perhaps you are even a pastor who disagrees with his fellow elders on this, or you're beginning to realize you disagree in your own denomination, or perhaps you know that your pastor and your elders will be very upset if they find out you're even investigating these things, or that you especially have embraced them.

Well, we would understand that. You would want to remain anonymous for now. But other than that, if it's just a general question, please give us your first name, at least your city and state of residence, and your country of residence, if you live outside the

USA. Don't go away. We're going to be right back after these messages with more of Rob Ventura and the 1689

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Our website is gracechurchatfranklin .org. That's gracechurchatfranklin .org.

This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our

Sovereign Lord, God, Savior, and King Jesus Christ, today and always.

Here's what Gary DeMar, President of American Vision, had to say about Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio recently.

Good to be back, Chris. I always enjoy our time here. I have to tell you, you're one of the better interviewers out there, and I've been doing this for 30, more than 30 years.

Wow, that's some compliment. How much do I owe you for that? You don't have to owe me anything.

We're in good shape. I'm glad you said it on the air, so I don't have to brag about myself.

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This is a day of great spiritual compromise, and yet God has raised Chris up for just such a time.

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I'm pleased to do so, and would like to ask you to prayerfully consider joining me in supporting

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I know it would be a huge encouragement to Chris, if you would. All the details can be found at ironsharpensironradio .com,

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James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here. If you've watched my Dividing Line webcast often enough, you know

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Nessie Allen 28th edition, with a navy blue goatskin inside liner, and the electric blue goatskin from a

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That's PTLBibleRebinding .com Welcome back, this is

Chris Arms, and if you just tuned us in, our guest today is author and pastor

Rob Ventura. We are discussing the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith.

He is also the general editor of a new exposition on the 1689

London Baptist Confession of Faith, also known as the Second London Baptist Confession, that will feature 20 different Reformed Baptists giving exposition and commentary on this great document.

If you'd like to join us on the air, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com chrisarnson at gmail .com

Give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA, and only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

We have John and Bangor Main, who asks, How much of the

Second London Baptist Confession do you have to agree with in order to be considered a full subscriptionist?

Because I happen to know that most who identify themselves as confessionally

Reformed churches, and specifically adhere to the 1689 London Baptist Confession, no longer believe that the

Pope is the Antichrist. So if that can be disagreed with, how much more can be disagreed with?

That's a great question, and I'm not going to say at what point that line is to be drawn, but I will say that for members coming into our church, we basically have two standards for them to come into membership that they must review and hold to.

We have our Constitution, which sets forth practically what we believe is to happen in our church.

And then secondly, we have our doctrinal standard, which is the LCF -2 London Confession of Faith of 1689.

But what we say, Chris, to the people coming into membership, is they need to be in substantial agreement with the

Confession of Faith. And of course, the whole Pope issue is, I think almost every meeting that comes up, you know, you're saying that if I don't believe, people say that the

Pope is the Antichrist, that I can't join the church. Well, of course not. We understand historically there was a reason why the

Reformed Baptists would say that, and that's not to say that someone can't still hold to that view today.

But generally, most believers coming in would say that I believe that the Pope is an Antichrist, or the whole

Popery system is that which is against Christ. So, yeah, again, substantial agreement.

There might be little things here and there, but we wouldn't have a problem with that. And I would hate to say that, again, even if someone disagrees on that or their particular view about, you know, something in the church, you know, chapter 26, about, you know, the messengers going here and all that, and whether there are official associations or non -official associations, whatever the case might be.

I would hate to draw a line so closely that now we have those who are in and those who are out, especially when

I think this, one of the purposes of Confession of Faith was to promote unity among the brethren, not disunity.

Great. Well, thanks, John. And we have to make it clear that even those who have abandoned that element of the

Confession, who no longer believe, or never did believe, that the

Pope is the Antichrist, that does not mean, typically, especially with a

Reformed Baptist church, you might have some odd exceptions with individuals out there, but as a whole, that does not mean that Reformed Baptists would have a softer view of the

Pope or the papacy. It's just that in terms of eschatology and so on, there has become a different view than was dominant back then, in the 17th century.

That's correct. Well said. Let's see here. We have

R .J. in White Plains, New York, who says one of the reasons that folks are leery about being hardcore subscriptionists to any confession is they think that that is just bolstering sectarianism and a judgmental spirit against those who are truly our brethren.

I'm not speaking about mushy -gushy evangelical ecumenicalism or ecumenism.

I am talking about those that would come to a conclusion that their brothers in Christ, for whom

Christ died, are somehow inferior if they are not in subscription to this document.

Yeah, I think that people could have that view. I've got to say that for me, I love those who love

Christ, and whether they're Reformed or not,

I'm going to love them. But I want to be someone who could obviously promote among believers greater truth, and come alongside them and point them in a more excellent way to use

Bible language. But yeah, I don't think our confession of faith should be that again, which makes us to be full of pride, or again, better than others.

I mean, what do we have that we didn't receive? And I think also the late

Robert Martin said it well. He had that wonderful introduction to Sam Waldron's confession of faith.

Again, the legitimacy and use of confessions of faith. And he put forth four specific uses of a good confession.

And I'll just read them to you. Number one, he says, it aids in the public affirmation and defense of the truth. Number two, it provides standards of church fellowship and discipline.

Number three, it outlines concise standards by which to evaluate ministers of the word of God.

And number four, it contributes to our sense of historical continuity. And that's what I was saying earlier.

So when someone looks at those things, I mean, it doesn't say number five, and it divides us among our brethren, or it gives us superiority over this one and that one.

I mean, God forbid that should be happening among us. That has happened in my heart among, again, Reformed Baptist churches.

Again, whether someone might disagree with me on something in chapter 26, or chapter whatever it might be,

I'm just thankful that churches are seriously putting forth what they believe, or I should say in this case, holding forth what they believe in this wonderful document.

So again, I've never thought negatively about it, and I don't think it ought to be something which causes division among the brethren or gives us an air of superiority over anyone.

God forbid that should ever be the case. We should be thankful for what we have and thank

God for it. Yes, and in fact, you've already hinted at this, but the reason why there is a second

London Baptist Confession of Faith and not just a first, is because it was an attempt at Reformed Baptists to demonstrate unity with our

Presbyterian brethren. That's correct. That's why it is nearly an identical replica, although not exactly.

There is a reason why it's the Baptist Confession of Faith that has Baptist distinctives in it. But it was an appeal to the

Presbyterians. We're not a cult. We are on the same page with so much of you, our brethren, who are

Presbyterian, and we just want to identify what we also believe are important issues of difference without being bigoted or sectarian or hateful.

We just want to let everyone know that we do have distinctives on church polity and on the ordinance of baptism.

That's right. We ought to be extremely humble, and we are indebted to those who have gone before us.

Again, I think the Baptists of 1644 greatly indebted those men after that period to have such great documents as Westminster and Savoy.

And I think the Baptists were educated by a lot of what the Westminster Divine said at that time, and they were blessed by it.

And like you said, they incorporated much of that into the 1689, yet again having a very clear line of demarcation when it came to Baptistic church polity and other matters.

So, yeah, I mean, we're standing on the shoulders of those men, and that's why

I think, again, we ought to be very thankful for our paedobaptist brethren and those other documents that have gone before us.

I mean, what do we have that we didn't receive, right? So these are not new things with us, but these are things that historically

Reformed Christians have held, and I'm just very thankful that the Reformed Baptists were wise enough to put together and put down a confession of faith at that time, because, again, if not in our day,

I mean, we would just have no historical continuity to anything, and we would really be the odd man out.

So having the confession of faith and be able to look back on it and see what our forefathers believed as Baptist is a great encouragement to my soul.

And we have to go to our middle break right now. It's longer than the other breaks, so please be patient, folks.

But Grace Life Radio, 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of us a longer break in the middle of the show because the

FCC requires of them to localize Iron Sherpa and Zion Radio to Lake City, Florida.

Therefore, while we air our globally heard commercials, they are airing their local public service announcements and other local things.

So please use this time wisely. Write down as much of the information for as many of our advertisers as you can so that you can more frequently and successfully patronize them.

That will, God willing, lead to us having more of a secure future as a program because we absolutely depend on our advertisers to exist.

Without the advertisers, there is no Iron Sherpa and Zion Radio. So one way of keeping those advertisers is if our listeners patronize them as often as they can.

And also use this time to write down questions for Rob Ventura on the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith or on Reformed Baptist Theology, Doctrine and Practice in general or on Reformed Theology even in a more broader sense.

Our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com chrisarnson at gmail .com

And as always, give us your first name at least, your city and state, a residence in your country, a residence if you live outside the

USA. Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. We'll be right back after these messages with more of Rob Ventura and the 1689

London Baptist Confession of Faith. Iron Sherpa and Zion Radio Iron Sherpa and Zion Radio depends upon the financial support of fine

Christian organizations to remain on the air, like the Historical Bible Society. The Historical Bible Society maintains a collection of Christian books, manuscripts and Bibles of historical significance spanning nearly a thousand years.

The mission of HBS is the preservation and public display of ancient scripture, dissemination of scripture, to provide tools equipping believers in Christian apologetics with evidence for the

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Come journey through their website, historicalbiblesociety .org. The collection includes a complete 11th century

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Tony Costa, professor of apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary.

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That's liyfc .org. As host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, I frequently get requests from listeners for church recommendations.

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Before we return to Rob Ventura, our guest today, who is discussing the 1689 London Baptist Confession, I just have a couple of announcements to make.

I hope as many of you as possible will join me next Friday and Saturday, the 28th and 29th of August, for the

Association of Certified Biblical Counselors Conference. This is going to be held at High Point Baptist Church in Larksville, Pennsylvania, which is a suburb of Scranton, Pennsylvania.

And I am really looking forward to this conference. It's being conducted by Dale Johnson, the

Executive Director of the Association of Certified Biblical Counselors, also known as ACBC.

And Dale is going to be addressing such subjects as the need for biblical counseling, the definition and goal of biblical counseling, progressive sanctification, qualifications of a biblical counselor, secular and integration theories, what makes biblical counseling biblical, and a

Q &A session with the audience. That's Friday night at 5, it begins for registration, and then continues all day

Saturday until 5 p .m. as well when they conclude. If you want to register or even just find out more information about this conference, go to BiblicalCounseling .com

forward slash Scranton, that's S -C -R -A -N -T -O -N dash

P -A dash training. BiblicalCounseling .com forward slash Scranton dash

P -A dash training. You can also find out more about the venue where this conference is being held,

High Point Baptist Church of Larksville, Pennsylvania, at HighPointBaptist .Church.

That's HighPointBaptist .Church. I also urge you to look up on the

Iron Trip and Zion Radio website, IronTripandZionRadio .com, if you go to the podcast past shows section, and you type in the search engine

Matt Tarr, M -A -T -T -T -A -R -R. He is the pastor of High Point Baptist Church.

You will hear two wonderful interviews I did with Pastor Matt, and if you type in Dale Johnson in the search engine, you will be able to hear my interview on Biblical Counseling with the speaker of this conference,

Dale Johnson. So I hope to see you there on Friday and Saturday of next week,

August 28th and 29th at the High Point Baptist Church in Larksville, Pennsylvania, for the

Association of Certified Biblical Counselors Conference on the

Basics of Biblical Counseling. Also, folks, if you love this show and you do not want it to disappear from the airwaves, please,

I am urging you, go to IronSharpensIronRadio .com, click support, then click, click to donate now.

You can donate instantly with a debit or credit card by doing that. If you prefer snail mail, just look at the address that appears on the screen when you click support at IronSharpensIronRadio .com,

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You do not have to believe identically with me, but you have to be promoting something that is at the very least compatible with what

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Please, folks, always remember I never want anybody siphoning money away from their regular giving that they are accustomed to to their own local church in order to give to IronSharpensIronRadio.

Please do not, in other words, steal from your own collection plate by giving to us.

And do not put your family in financial jeopardy by giving to IronSharpensIronRadio if you are struggling to survive and make ends meet.

Those two things are commands of Scripture providing for your church and your family. Providing for this radio show is obviously not a command of Scripture, but if you love the show and you are financially blessed above and beyond your ability to obey those two commands, please, please help us as frequently and as generously as you can by going to IronSharpensIronRadio .com,

click support, then click click to donate now. Also, folks, if you are not a member of a Bible -believing church, you are not aware of one that is faithful to the

Scriptures in your area, no matter where you live on the planet Earth, I may be able to help you. I have helped people all over the world find biblically faithful churches that they didn't even know existed, sometimes within just a few minutes of their own home.

And I may be able to help you. Send me an email at chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com,

and put I need a church in the subject line. That's also the email address where you can send in a question to Rob Ventura on the 1689

London Baptist Confession of Faith. That's chrisarnson at gmail .com, gives your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside of the

USA. We have a listener in Raleigh, North Carolina, and I actually urge you to look up his interview on Iron Sherpa and Zion Radio.

He is an Orthodox Presbyterian elder and an attorney, and we interviewed him recently on the

Church vs. State question mark. His name is Dick Guido, and he asks,

I confess I am not very familiar with the 1689 Confession, but its discussion of the

Civil Magistrate appears to me to be much abbreviated from the corresponding provisions about the

Civil Magistrate in the Westminster Confession. The Baptist Confession does not go into the detail of the

Westminster Confession, I'm tongue -tied here, does not go into the detail the

Westminster Confession does concerning the relationship between the Church and the

Civil Magistrate. Could you elaborate on this difference? Would the framers of the 1689

Confession have had a different view of that relationship than the Westminster Divines?

Yeah, it's a good question, and our brother John Price, Pastor John Price, who wrote that chapter, deals with that in there.

I'll tell our brother Dick that he's going to have to wait until the book comes out, because John does deal with it there.

I think that's the best I could say, but I think it is true that the

Baptists might have had a different view than the Westminster Divines and the whole

Church -State matter. I think it is one that is vitally important, especially for today and what's going on in our own day.

But I'll point him to the chapter, chapter 24, and just wait until the book is published. Great.

Well, thank you, Dick. And by the way, for those looking up his interview, his last name is spelt like Guido, G -U -I -D -O, even though it's pronounced

Guido. And thank you, brother, and God bless. We have

Harrison in Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania, who asks,

How is the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith different from the Philadelphia Confession of Faith and the

New Hampshire Confession of Faith? Those are great questions. Those are really the

American versions of the 1689. So I know that a lot of churches, particularly

Southern Baptist churches, will hold to Philadelphia or New Hampshire. I think they're both excellent documents, by the way.

And I know there's some differences in there, at least one of them having the matter of foot -washing in them.

So I think very good historic Baptist confessions of faith. They may be a bit lighter when it comes to Sabbatarianism and regulative worship.

But I know some good brethren, even here in Rhode Island, who hold to them. So I'm grateful for them.

Someone might say, well, would you prefer one over the other? Well, yes, of course.

I hold to the 1689. I subscribe to it. But I think that a church holding to Philadelphia or New Hampshire is a church that is certainly moving in the right direction and a church that has a good doctrinal foundation in both of those statements.

Now, how would you react to the description of the New Hampshire Confession? Because I've heard even folks that have that as their confessional statement.

They've called it the 1689 light. Would you describe it that way?

Well, again, I think that's what I'd say. I actually think I used the word light. So it's lighter, I would say.

So I think that in the LCF, too, you just have a robust, systematic theology.

I mean, it's really just a nice way to consider the confession. It's like just a short confession of faith from a

Reformed Baptist, particular Baptist perspective. So I think New Hampshire is lighter.

And things that are, I think, more fully expressed in our own confession of faith, Chris, you'll have it there, again, touched upon but not really expounded to the same degree.

So, you know what? People in our day may like that. They may feel more comfortable with that. But I know for yourself, for me,

I like the historic robustness of the 1689.

It's just a very full statement on all of those major chapters that it deals with, 32.

But, again, at the same time, I'm not going to say anything bad about Philadelphia or the

New Hampshire. I'm thankful that, again, if churches hold to those and really hold to them, not just have them as some dusty documents in their library, but they're really seeking to be faithful to those things, who knows?

But maybe they'll read the new exposition of the London Baptist Confession of Faith and see, you know what, look at what we have is really just foundational, but we should embrace a more robust confession of faith, and the church can move from one of those documents really to the 1689, or we could say back to the 1689

London Baptist Confession of Faith. Now, if I'm not, correct me if I'm wrong,

I believe that the Philadelphia Confession is two chapters longer.

It includes, if I'm not mistaken, a chapter on singing praise and the laying on of hands, which are not in the 1689.

I think that's correct. Well, let's see here. Oh, thank you,

Harrison, by the way, in Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania. Let's see here.

We have, let's see, I just was looking at a question.

Oh, it's an anonymous question here. An anonymous listener asks, how do you approach someone who you fear in leadership in the church might be abusing the confession by apparently making it on the same level of authority as the

Bible? I think that obviously we who are fallible and sinful have sometimes the occasion to do that kind of thing when we adhere to a favorite hero of the faith, a system of theology, a creator confession.

But obviously that was never the intention of the framers of the confession. How do we in love and with gentleness approach the issue of a leader you fear is doing that?

Yeah, well, what a terrible thing it is to even hear that. But, you know, the framers of our confession, chapter one of the

Holy Scriptures, a very clear paragraph one, the Holy Scripture is the only sufficient, certain, and infallible rule of all -saving knowledge, faith, and obedience.

So, I mean, the framers of the confession are clearly setting forth sola scriptura, not sola confession of faith.

So for a man to be doing that or putting that on the same level as the word of God is obviously a grave error.

How does someone speak to such a man? Well, they do so in meekness and gentleness.

They set forth the intention of the confession of faith itself. Again, Spurgeon talks about it.

You know, this is a help to what we believe, you know, in our Bibles.

Just looking here at Spurgeon's quote, he's got that famous quote on one of the

Baptist confessions of faith. But he talks here about, let your lives adorn your faith.

Let your example adorn your creed. Above all, he says, live in Christ Jesus and walk in Him.

Giving credence to no teaching but that which is manifestly approved of Him and owned by the

Holy Spirit. Then he ends by saying, cleave fast to the word of God, which is here mapped out for you.

So again, it's the word of God first and foremost. And again, we look to our confession because it articulates the word of God to us, but it is not the word of God itself.

So again, if a pastor was doing that, you graciously approach him as if he was doing anything that was wrong.

And, you know, you seek to show him, obviously, from the confession of faith itself, that it was never meant to be on par with the

Scripture. But just to help to those things most surely believed among us as contained in Scripture.

Yes, and our listener, our anonymous listener, must be cautious because it may be a figment of your imagination.

I'm not saying it is. It may be a figment of your imagination that you think your elder is holding the confession too highly.

But if that is your fear, this needs to be taken and approached in a very delicate way.

He is, first of all, don't you agree, needs to be very private about this with this elder and the way that he approaches this one -on -one.

Absolutely, directly go to him. Matthew 7 .12, as we would have others do to us, you know, do to others also as we would have people do to us do to them also.

So we would, again, want that person to come to us in a spirit of meekness and gentleness and just say, Hey, look,

Pastor so -and -so, I know you love the word of God and I know you love our confession of faith, but it's come across to me in recent days,

I could be completely wrong, but it's almost sounding like, and then you put out X, Y, and Z and see what he says, but yeah,

I think it's a very delicate matter. And I've never heard anyone doing such a thing. But again, knowing the human heart, people can fall into all kinds of errors.

Yes, I could understand somebody getting that vibe or that impression. If somebody is really hyper -sectarian, if they happen to be a

Reformed Baptist, and they speak in such condescending ways against those who are outside of the circle of confessional

Reformed Baptist, they might get the idea this guy is putting it on the same par with Scripture or something, but he may not in reality be doing that.

No, that's right. No, that's right. And again, a gracious conversation, private, is the way to go. Okay, we have another listener here who has been a guest on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

And because of that, I will give her full name. Jenny Reese Clark, if you look up on our website, in the podcast past show section, if you type in Jenny Reese Clark, you will find a couple of interviews we've done with her, and one specifically about her testimony.

She was a crystal meth dealer before coming to Christ. Quite a fascinating story.

And she's now married to an Army chaplain, and just a fascinating woman. But she asks,

Greetings, brothers. There is humble...

I think she means to say, I am a humble housewife and lover of the Lord. Or, I guess maybe, she may have left out a word here.

I'm just trying to read this so it makes sense. There is a humble housewife and lover of the

Lord. I guess that's what she meant to say. There is a humble housewife and lover of the Lord here in North Carolina, shouting short and choppy words of affirmation, like, yeah, that's right, hallelujah, and preach it, brother.

I think I just woke up my sleeping husband on his only day off at work this week.

I can't help it. The matter is non -negotiable. Praise the Lord, I have heard a truth spoken when we get serious about knowing in what, whom, and who our boundaries are.

You are spot on, Mr. Ventura. Yes, let's get serious. Confession, a creed if you must, is essential to remind oneself of their committed faith in Jesus Christ, the

Redeemer. Oh, and then she concludes, and even though many of us have sat through the old fire and brimstone preachers that reminded us that without a confession we are in grave trouble, many have forgotten.

Personally, I've never forgot, excuse me, personally, I'll never forget the vibrations of Matthew chapter 10, 33 off the stained glass windows, but whoever denies me before men,

I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven. That said, Rob, this is the first time

I've run across your blog, Reformation 21. It looks enticing with all the hot topics and current arguments.

I truly look forward to diving into all the resources you've put together. Thank you for taking the time out today to chat with Chris.

He's a great interviewer, isn't he? Keep up the good fight. I will be praying for that upcoming book deal.

Oh, well, thanks so much for that. As God goes before, beside, and behind you, may you know when to move forward and when to be still, and obviously that was not a question, it was really just an encouraging several comments there.

Oh, well, thank you so much, and just one point of clarification, Ref 21 is not my blog.

Reformation 21 is a blog of the Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals, and I just contribute to that blog from time to time.

It's an outstanding blog, and I'm just privileged to have a small part in contributing occasionally.

Great. Well, tell us about how.

We brushed on this or touched on this just a little bit in the beginning, but there is something that I fear about us, meaning

Reformed Baptists, and of course you could change the name and you could change the issue.

Like, for instance, let me start with my Fundamentalist friends. The Fundamentalists that I know, and they are not all a nasty bunch of folks, as some of my

Reformed friends and those outside of Fundamentalism say. There are a number of very tender and compassionate, sweet brothers and sisters in Christ who are

Fundamentalist Baptists, so don't broad -brush that. But I can sense among them there is a spirit of fear that they will start to believe something that will have them become an outcast amongst their fellow

Fundies. It may be a change in eschatology. I know a brother who was vilified by some of his

Fundy brethren. Not all, but he became an oddball and had been denounced because he changed his eschatological views from a pre -Trib dispensationalist to a pre -Wrath -Rapture dispensationalist.

You have this fear that paralyzes men of God, even pastors, from being

Berean. Now, on the flip side with Reformed Baptists, how do we prevent ourselves, when we are confessional, from going through the motions and having a form of dishonesty that we really believe in a full subscription to the

Confession because we're just afraid. We're afraid to be labeled as a troublemaker, as an outsider, as somebody who's not really one of us, etc.,

etc. How do you prevent that kind of a thing? Yeah, well, you are right.

We did just touch on it briefly earlier. I think we need to continue to be Bereans. There's no question about it.

That's just what Scripture sets before us as a very positive example to study the

Scriptures, even if an apostle, as it were, was speaking to us. And what we talked about earlier regarding this whole matter,

I mentioned personally that being in the pastorate here 13 years full -time, preaching and teaching and all the rest,

I'm very thankful that as I continue to learn and to grow and to be a

Berean and to study passages in ways that I never had the privilege of doing before being a pastor, that is to say giving 20 hours per sermon and just doing everything by the sweat of my brow, but really getting into the text,

I've been able to look back on our Confession of Faith and to say, wow, I came to these same conclusions in my own study of the

Word of God. And it's been just very affirming to me, again, that historical continuity.

And not because, again, I'm just a slave to the Confession or I'm afraid to say something different, but our forefathers spent a lot of time in their

Bibles. And again, it's a great joy for me to study the Bible, first and foremost the

Word of God, and then to see from my Bible a particular topic, again, whether it's adoption or sanctification or saving faith, all things that our

Confession of Faith deals with, and then to look to see what these writers hundreds of years ago said, and to be like, there it is!

And typically better stated than I said it. So it's an amazing, amazing thing.

And again, it's such a blessing to the soul of the man of God. But I think that every minister needs to study the

Word of God, and he needs to study the Word of God certainly by himself and on his own, but never alone.

We have to remember that when Paul talks in Ephesians 4 about Christ giving gifts to the Church, that Christ has given those gifts over the centuries.

And thankfully, those gifts to the Church, many of them, wrote down those things which they saw in Scripture in historic

Confessions of Faith. And so when we check these Confessions of Faith, again, our faith is only strengthened and confirmed.

I mentioned that almost 30 years ago when I was first converted, I was in a Pentecostal church for just a couple years, but then when

I started reading Westminster Confession of Faith, or the Shorter Catechism, I was amazed at the depth of knowledge.

I mean, it was like I'd never read the Bible before, and I'm just reading these men expound Scripture with all the Scripture text, and it was just like, you know,

I was born again, you know, first time ever in my life I was born again, again. And my point is in all this is that these

Confessions of Faith help solidify what we believe, and they challenge what we believe, and I think they help us to go deeper into what we believe as Christians.

But I don't think that among Reformed Baptists there's a fear,

I mean, unless there's a particular case you're talking of, Chris, I think there ought to be great faith as they study their

Bibles to know that there are others who have gone before them, and they have articulated those things most surely believed among us in this wonderful document.

And of course, I'm assuming that you would agree that if a leader in a church does have some differences of opinion with the

Confession that he has developed over further study, that he has to be, at least to his fellow elders to start with, he has to be honest with them about it, doesn't he?

I mean, this isn't something that should be swept under the rug, should it? Absolutely not. You're correct.

I've known of men, Reformed Baptist men, actually I can think of a man in Pennsylvania many, many years ago who, in studying his

Bible, basically came to a point of disagreement with reference to the

Sabbath, and he took more of a 1644 position, as it were, just Lord's Day, of course you know this whole distinction between Lord's Day and the

Christian Sabbath, so he basically said that he came to a place where he disagreed with the

Confession of Faith, and he stepped down from his church. I think that was the right thing to do. He was a good and godly man, no longer a pastor, and I think that's right, because if the church, in fact, took him on as a man who holds to the

Confession of Faith, then it would lack complete integrity, and it would be just a man who is not living in the truth to say that he holds to the

Confession of Faith, and yet in his heart he's denying Sabbatarianism, or regular worship, or whatever else it might be.

So I thought it was good on him, as they say, that he stepped down, and he did let his fellow elders know, and he went to serve the

Lord somewhere else. By the way, I did want to, I forgot to mention this, I wanted to recommend an interview

I did with one of your contributors, John Price, who takes a different view than most

Reformed Baptists today, although I don't think it was such a minority view in the 19th century or prior.

In fact, I'm pretty certain it wasn't. But he holds to a strictly a cappella view.

John Price wrote a book called Old Light on New Worship, and I interviewed

John on a multiple -part series. In other words, I interviewed him many times on this book until we completed the series on it.

And I would invite my listeners to be challenged by that, whatever your view is, because I thought it was an absolutely fascinating discussion.

No, John is an excellent man, and again, as I commended his chapter earlier, it would just be too much to get into the whole civil magistrate bit, but his chapter was exceptional, one of my favorites.

His book came out maybe 10 years ago, I think at least, or it's been many, many years.

But yeah, definitely something to consider. He and I have spoken about the matter. And yeah, again,

John just serves the Lord faithfully in his area up in Rochester, New York, I believe.

Yes, Grace Baptist Church of Rochester. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we are going to our final break right now.

When we come back, I want you to perhaps enlighten and shock many of our listeners by going through some of the great heroes of the faith who were

Reformed and confessional that may surprise many of our listeners who think that what we are discussing is historically novel, that this is some weird tiny sect of Baptists, and I'll start the ball rolling with Charles Haddon Spurgeon.

You mentioned him before. There are those that are totally ignorant of the fact that Spurgeon was a confessional

Reformed Baptist, and that ignorance has been perpetuated, sadly, by some who have decalvinized

Spurgeon in their printed material. In fact, some famous non -Calvinist was challenged why he changed the words in some of Spurgeon's sermons.

And he said, well, now that our brother is in heaven, he would agree with us. There you go, yep.

But anyway, and I also wanted to plug a book by Tom Nettles, which is titled

By His Grace and For His Glory, which is a real eye -opener on Reformed, theologically

Reformed Baptists throughout history, many of whom are the great heroes of even our non -Calvinist

Baptist brethren. But we will have you go into some of that when we return, and our email address again is chrisarnson at gmail dot com.

chrisarnson at gmail dot com. As always, give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence, if you live outside the

USA. And please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

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Welcome back. This is our final segment of today's interview with Rob Ventura on the 1689

London Baptist Confession of Faith. Our email address is chrisarnzen at gmail .com chrisarnzen at gmail .com

Give us your first name at least, your city and state and country of residence if you live outside the

USA. If you could, I want to give you about Oh, I forgot. I had posed the question before the final break about those that adhered to the 1689

Confession, names of which might surprise those in our audience who are not themselves confessional or even reformed.

Yeah, well, I think one thing we always need to remember is that our confession was written by Puritan Baptists and, you know, of course, the aides are writing in the 1600s so these are all

Puritans. So, you know, you had among the Puritans the Westminster Puritans again, these

Baptists who held to those things most surely believed among us. So you had particular

Baptist churches in those days in the 1600s, 1700s, of course, in the 1800s, as you said, famously

Charles Haddon Spurgeon and all the churches he planted but then, you know, others, you know,

Andrew Fuller, just a historic Reformed Baptist and then even modern guys.

I mean, I think it's important for us to say who in our day holds to these things, you know, who might be well -known, guys like Conrad and B -Way,

Votie Bolcom, one of your main advertisers over there, James White, Reformed Baptist.

I always love letting people know when they tell me, oh, have you heard of James White? You know, he's such a good apologist. I say, well, yes, he is and I'm also thankful he's a solid

Reformed Baptist. Amen. And a confessional Reformed Baptist. So a wonderful guy. Actually, he wrote the foreword for that book

I edited some years ago going beyond the five points so I was thankful for that. And then, of course, you've got Al Martin and many others who were just, you know, been holding to these confessions.

This confession specifically, you know, for four or five decades.

It's a wonderful thing. And as far as specific individuals, though, that adhere to it?

Yeah, I would say, again, just you've got hundreds of churches all throughout the world, you know, from the time that the confession's been out, you know, to date, that hold to the confession of faith.

I know one organization that has 600 churches connected to it that hold to the confession of faith. And then, you know, all the various ones that are connected to various groups among our churches, they're all confessional.

Yes, and let's see here. We have a listener who is in Dauphin County, Pennsylvania.

Susan Margaret. And she asks, What do you suggest to purchase when one is looking for a copy of the 1689

London Baptist Confession? There are obviously many different published editions. Yeah, well, that's a great question.

I've got one by Chapel Library. That's an excellent resource that they have.

And you can call our brethren over there. They're in Pensacola, Florida. They're number 850 -438 -6666.

They've got a very nice copy of the Confession of Faith. And then there's even the 1689

Baptist Confession of Faith for the 21st century. It's called Confessing the Faith. And this was put together by Stan Reeves.

And it's got commendations on the back of it from Michael Haken, who did the foreword, Dr. Sam Waldron, and Rich Barcellas.

That's put out by Founders Press, again, another organization in Florida. So those are just two handy ones that I have on my desk that I refer to often.

The one by Chapel Library, and then the modern one by Founders Press. And I would be amiss not to promote

Solid Ground Christian Books because they are a sponsor of the show. They have wonderful editions of this, even leather -bound.

So if you go to solid -ground -books .com solid -ground -books .com you can find out about the editions that they carry.

Well, I want you to have about three minutes at least to summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today.

Yeah, well, let me just say one last thing about Solid Ground. I did speak to Mikey Gaydos earlier in the week, and he says, send greetings to Chris.

So there you have it. And he also said that when this book comes out, the new 1689, that he will buy the first hundred copies.

Wow. Yep, yep, yep. So he's very excited about it. He has sold many, many copies of Waldron's original exposition.

Actually, I think that thing appears in its fifth or sixth edition now. So that's just a great sign that this confession of faith is being loved by people, and churches are embracing it.

Well, again, I think to me the main thing is to be living in our day and to have this historical connection to these

Reformed Baptists, forefathers of ours, is just tremendous. We're not new kids on the block, and there's no new truth under heaven.

So for anyone here who is listening, and you're a Christian, you love the Word of God, remember that you're not the first one to read your

Bible, and that others have gone before you and have articulated those truths from Scripture in these historic confessions of faith.

And what a joy it should be for you to know that, again, you're not the first one who's understanding effectual calling, or adoption, or whatever it might be, the perseverance of the saints, or the law of God, or the

Christian Sabbath, that when you then turn to these historic confessions of faith, again, specifically from a

Baptist perspective, the London Baptist Confession of Faith, you will find in that document just a wonderful camaraderie in your own soul, and great joy as you see the things you believe set forth in this document.

So I pray that the book that I'm editing and contributing to will be a blessing to you, and that it will bolster your faith, and that this document will be embraced by you from the heart, and it'll be that which will keep your church safe, and will set forth those wonderful truths of the

Bible in a plain manner. May the Lord bless as we continue to work on this project, and might it be a help mainly for glorifying the name of the

Lord Jesus Christ and keeping His churches pure. Well, folks, don't forget you can find out more about Grace Community Baptist Church, where Rob Ventura pastors in North Providence, Rhode Island.

The website is gcbcri .org, gcbcri .org,

and you can also find out more about the school where he serves on the faculty.

That's risbible .org, risbible .org.

I want to thank you so much, Rob, for being such an outstanding guest, as you always prove to be.

I look forward to your return to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. I want to remind everybody listening, please, if you haven't registered already, join me next

Friday and Saturday in Scranton, Pennsylvania for the conference where I will be manning an

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio exhibitors booth that is the Basics of Biblical Counseling, a conference of the

Association of Certified Biblical Counselors. For more details, go to biblicalcounseling .com

forward slash scranton -pa -training, biblicalcounseling .com

forward slash s -c -r -a -n -t -o -n -p -a -training. I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far, far greater