Should Christians Support the Deportation of Women and Children?

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Welcome to Bible Bash, where we aim to equip the saints for the work of ministry by answering the questions you're not allowed to ask.

01:37

We're your hosts Harrison Kerrig and Pastor Tim Mullett, and today we'll answer the age -old question, should

01:42

Christians support the deportation of women and children? Now Tim, as we kick this episode off, what

01:48

Bible verse do you have for us? Yes, so Ezra 10 says, while Ezra prayed and made confession, weeping and casting himself down before the house of God.

01:58

A very great assembly of men, women, children gathered to him out of Israel, for the people wept bitterly.

02:04

And Jechaniah, the son of Jehal, of the sons of Elam, addressed Ezra, we have broken faith with our

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God and have married foreign women from the people of the land, but even now there is hope for Israel in spite of this.

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Therefore, let us make a covenant with our God to put away all of these wives and their children according to the counsel of my

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Lord and of those who tremble at the commandment of our God and let it be done according to the law. So, there you go.

02:28

All right, there you go. Get rid of all the women and children. Seems like an open and shut case to me.

02:35

Definitely not taken out of context in any way whatsoever. I mean, surely not, no.

02:42

Okay, so how does that apply to the conversation we're having right now?

02:51

I mean, it certainly is a different scenario for sure. But yeah,

02:56

I think you asked this question in a very manipulative way,

03:03

Harrison, and so you have to take responsibility for what you've done here. I'm going to refuse to accept responsibility for this.

03:12

What about the women and the children, right? What about the women and children? I'm pulling at your heartstrings, Tim. Not the women, not the younglings.

03:20

Yeah, yeah. Well, the reason I wanted to ask it is because I think you've seen online on various legacy media outlets, as Trump has come in, he's gotten,

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I mean, admittedly, he seemed to have gotten a lot done in week number one of his term.

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And one of those things was enacting certain, I guess it would be executive orders that are putting into place certain procedures that are meant to get rid of all of the illegal immigrants that have been flooding into the country over the last several years at this point.

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I think the last number I heard was 10 .5 million or 11 million illegal immigrants have come into the country over the last several years.

04:14

So he's trying to get them all out. But then what a lot of people are doing who don't like that, for whatever reason, and we can talk about that if you'd like, if you feel like that relates to the question at all.

04:26

But the people who do not support Trump and what he's doing, oftentimes what they'll do is they'll show you videos of a woman crying as she's realizing that she's not going to be able to have her, have whatever appointment it is that she had set up to be able to stay in the country essentially.

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Or they'll show children that are finding out that they won't be able to stay much longer and they're crying, they're obviously upset.

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And what's supposed to be, what that's meant to do is it's meant to try and trick people into thinking, oh, well, this must be bad because they're crying.

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We wouldn't want to make them cry. Obviously we're doing something wrong if we're making women and children cry.

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And so as I'm seeing that, I'm thinking, this feels off. This doesn't feel right. There seems like there's something wrong here.

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My gut's telling me there's something wrong here. So the question then is essentially what is that?

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Why does it seem like it's wrong for others to try and seemingly manipulate, emotionally manipulate in this way?

05:44

And is there a precedent where you would ever say, yes, there is a time where a Christian does need to say, yes, even the women and children that are crying need to go?

05:56

That's the question, is there? Yeah. Yeah, so there's several things that's happening. And, I mean, we could leave aside my perfect verse.

06:06

Your wonderful exegesis there. For a moment. We could move on for a moment.

06:13

But, no, we maybe come back to that in a minute. But obviously one of the things that any

06:23

Christian should have when they read the Bible is a realization that God has made women and children to be uniquely vulnerable.

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So you're living in a time right now where we pretend that men and women are basically interchangeable parts.

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So we're pretending that a woman is just as strong as a man is and she can do anything a man can do and sometimes better.

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So we watch Marvel movies where 110 -pound girls are hip -tossing 250 -pound bodybuilders men around as if it's nothing.

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And yet at the same time, so you're living in that world where you're pretending that women are strong, powerful, courageous, independent.

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But then at the same time when you look at situations like this you see women crying with children. You realize that all of your egalitarian brainwashing that you've experienced seems to go out the window and then you revert to a biblical worldview.

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Which is kind of funny because, I mean, the liberals, they'll play this card whenever they want. So when they want to get sympathy, then they'll play the women are weak and victims and helpless card.

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And then when they want the woman to be the CEOs and in the military and everything else, then they'll play the exact opposite card.

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So really, I guess a woman is as capable as she needs to be in order to get the results she wants. So they'll play whatever side of that that they want to play.

07:51

But yeah, I think most Christians, they have a normal, natural reaction. Because we are living in the world that got made and you see women and children suffering.

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Then your heart goes out to them and you think to yourself, oh man, that seems bad.

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So I don't want to, certainly I don't want to make a child cry, right? Certainly. The greatest sin of all.

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Certainly wouldn't want to make a woman cry. In certain sense, yeah, I can. Sure, all right.

08:21

You have people who come over here illegally. They make a life over here. You can put them in the best possible light and you say, hey, they're looking for a better life and they come over here in hopes of having a better life.

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They're leaving some pretty rough places and coming over here looking for hope.

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Then, yeah, I mean, I'm sure that that's pretty confusing for the kid who doesn't understand why they're having to leave their new home because a new president was elected.

08:53

I mean, the parents are not telling them that they broke the law by coming over here and everything else. Right. Probably. So I certainly, yeah, the child is caught up in all that.

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I'm sure that, yeah, maybe they're not coming from the best kind of place. There is hope. There is opportunity here. So, I mean, it's a bad situation for sure.

09:13

The fact that no one wants to make the woman cry, right? Right, right.

09:21

I mean, I don't go around making it my life ambition to see how many women I can make cry. So, I mean, there's that.

09:28

I'm not that cold -hearted. Well, that's the Christian Southern hospitality in you probably.

09:35

Yeah, I guess so. You don't make ladies cry. Yeah. So, I mean, I'm definitely not trying to make that my life ambition or something.

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So, yeah, I mean, certainly your heart goes out to them. It's a rough situation for sure, yeah.

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But then at the same time, there are plenty of situations in the Bible where you aren't supposed to have the toxic sin of empathy.

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Like in other words, there's plenty of situations in the Bible where your eyes should not pity individuals.

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So, for instance, when Achan steals the forbidden garments, both he and all of his family are destroyed.

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Women and children and everything else, they're destroyed because they brought a plague on Israel. And he's the federal head of the family.

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They all get destroyed. The Israelites are going into the Promised Land. God tells them to kill all the women and children and utterly wipe out the inhabitants of the land because of the great evil with which they've formed.

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So, yeah, there's times where judgment comes upon a certain nation. You're supposed to not just have endless sympathy is the point.

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The passage I mentioned, you basically have the Israelites coming back to the land after exile. They're yoking themselves to foreign women.

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Ezra's telling them to get rid of the women and children that they've yoked themselves to. Their eyes should not pity.

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They need to start out the nation right, not with the same kind of sins that Balaam enticed

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Balak to entice the Israelites to commit, by sending the foreign women in there and everything else.

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So, yeah, I think that's just an example of a situation. Those are all situations that establish a minor premise, and that minor premise is to suggest that there are times where your eye should not pity the women and children in that way.

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It's difficult to say, hey, what are comparable situations? You may say that deportation is not a comparable situation.

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But, I mean, the issue is we are a nation of laws.

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The immigration topic in general is a complex topic, and there's a lot that we could say about that, and I haven't really said much about it in general.

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But, yeah, when individuals come over here illegally, and then you enforce your laws, at the very least, it's very difficult to adopt a posture that says they're being victimized in that kind of situation.

12:10

Now, we may need to change our laws. Our laws may not be good. But if you know that you're a nation of laws, you come over here intentionally violating those laws, and then the penalty for that is that you get kicked out, then

12:23

I hate it for you, but what do you expect if we were to come over to your country and not go through the proper channels, and they were to kick us out?

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I mean, so this is to be expected. So play stupid games, win super prizes.

12:42

I don't know what to tell you. So meaning there is a category for just your eye not pitying and executing the laws.

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Now, the question then is, though, are our immigration laws just? Are they right?

12:55

Are they biblical in that way? But, I mean, leaving that aside for a moment, let's assume for the sake of argument they are, then you come over here illegally.

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You get kicked out. Yeah, I don't know what to tell you. If all that it takes is for you to be able to come up, like, to violate our laws is to play on our sympathy towards women and children, then

13:15

I'm sorry. That's just not sufficient, right? So the example

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I gave in Ezra would be an example of they're violating laws, right? They need to fix the situation, and their eyes shouldn't pity just because women and children are affected in the process.

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So, yeah, I mean, what's the alternative? You let the women and children stay, and then you kick the men out, and now they have no source of provision, and then you as a nation have to provide for them?

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So that obviously isn't a good solution. So if you're going to uphold the law at all, you're going to have to uphold it.

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So I guess the question behind the question is, is it a good law to uphold, I suppose? Yeah, so why do you think so many, especially

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Christians, are opposed to the idea that,

14:04

I guess opposed to the idea of deportation seemingly in general? Like almost as just a general rule, hey, don't deport people because that's mean.

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Or I don't know. That's what it seems like they're saying, because it's mean. Why are they convinced that as Christians we should not be deporting people, or at least the women and the children?

14:35

Well, the reason why they might answer the women and children different is because they're white knights.

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They're white knights. They're white knights, yeah. We've been relentlessly feminized at this point to the point where we don't have a category for upholding the law whatsoever.

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So then you take these standards you're supposed to have to plead the cause of the widow and the orphan and all that, and you use them to basically overturn any idea of justice.

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So in the minds of many evangelicals today, you do have this idea that Jesus would never uphold the law.

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Like a strict application of the law towards women. There is kind of a double standard there.

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And some of that's related to what's happening in John 8 with the woman caught in adultery, not the woman that fell.

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Yeah. You have a textual critical discussion there to say does that even belong in the

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Bible, and why is that there, and what do we do with that? You look at your manuscripts and you realize that man, like that passage shows up in four different places.

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Three places in John, one place in Luke. It's not in the earliest manuscripts.

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I don't even think that's supposed to be there. But leaving all that aside,

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I think a lot of people have taken that passage as a license to basically say that Jesus is loving guy.

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So they're embracing kind of antinomianism. Jesus is loving guy. Love causes you to violate the law.

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Love and the law are opposite. And then particularly Jesus, he would never hold a woman accountable to the law.

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So you have kind of a double standard there that many evangelicals are applying.

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Leave all that aside, though. Leave all that aside. I think with immigration in general, leaving the women and children part of it aside, most evangelicals seem to think that because the church, the nature of the church is that it should be, it has a missionary endeavor, then the kind of logic goes something like this.

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It's like because God is bringing the nations here.

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So God is bringing the nations here and we have a great commission to evangelize the nations.

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So what kind of crass, anti -great commission kind of person do you have to be to basically deport your mission field?

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So I think for many people, that kind of reasoning seems to make sense to them to say that the church, because the church is not a political entity and all that, then because we've been given a great commission, if the nations come to hear praise the

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Lord, now we get to evangelize them. So you're prioritizing that, the concerns of the church and the great commission over against any kind of understanding of what is a nation and what is the role of a nation and what are the responsibilities of a nation and what is a sojourner, what is a citizen, what are the responsibilities of government, all those kinds of things.

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What does the Bible teach about immigration? So you really just throw all that aside and you're just answering the question in terms of theological categories.

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You're thinking solely in terms of the great commission and our responsibility to love the sojourner kind of thing.

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So yeah, I think that their impulses are being triggered that way. So they really don't have any category for a nation having any kind of responsibility to care for its own citizens and we really have no understanding of what even citizenship would mean in that context.

18:23

So yeah, it's all kind of a mess. So what's your analysis of that sort of mentality, especially the prioritizing illegal aliens over natural born citizens or just citizens in general?

18:40

Yeah, I don't know that I have wonderful answers to all that. I think one of the biggest problems right now is the fact that we have so many entitlements in our country.

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So at a, I mean, there's multiple problems that happen at this front in multiple different directions.

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So one of the big problems is that when you have illegal aliens coming over here, what is that, like Alexandria Ocasio -Cortez call them?

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Oh, I don't know. I don't ever listen to her. I don't either, but you see them on Twitter come up.

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Asylum seekers or whatever, like as if they're all seeking asylum or whatever.

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But I mean, when you have refugees and immigrants, you know, whatever coming over here, part of the problem is that when they come, we have kind of public healthcare system, public education system, right?

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So a lot of like what happens is it's not just they're coming over here and they're expected to provide everything that they need.

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So there's all sorts of programs. They can come over here to get taxpayer dollars and funding and welfare and everything else.

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You know, so what's happening is it's not because you're living in a society right now that thinks that it's the government's job essentially to provide basic standard of living almost for people with all the entitlement programs.

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By plundering people who actually are productive members of a society, then when you have refugees, asylum seekers, you know, whatever, immigrants, aliens coming over here, what ends up happening is they're plundering, like them doing that, they're plundering taxpayer dollars in order to come over here.

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So it's not just as simple as is there space to support them?

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Is there land to support them? It's not like you're in a nomadic society where you can have a lot of people come and there's a bunch of land and there's too much land for everyone else.

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You can come make a place, contribute to society, and then you have a defined definition of citizenship that gives you certain rights and a defined definition of non -citizenship that takes away certain rights.

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I mean, certainly we have something like that, but because of all the entitlement programs, what ends up happening is if you come over here illegally in our country, it's not going to enforce the laws we have, then you're basically robbing the people who are here.

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That's what's happening. So we're having to pay for you to be here. We have to pay, give you free education.

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We have to give you free, you know, money at times, welfare at times. We have to give you free housing at times.

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So we're having to give you free healthcare, everything else.

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So it's a mess. So part of my impulse at this point is just basically to say that, yeah,

21:52

I mean, if you could get rid of all that, it would be a little bit of a different situation. Okay?

21:58

Right. So, I mean, if you can get rid of all the entitlements, you can get rid of all the government subsidizing programs, all the stuff that's being paid for by tax dollars, then,

22:07

I mean, I think a lot of the public land, like a lot of the land that the government has taken as public property to itself is unnecessary.

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I'm not sure that we've totally tapped out all the resources that we've had here. I'm not sure that, I mean, the economic system is not really a zero -sum game.

22:29

So, you know, a lot of this really depends on what are the rights of a citizen over against what are the rights of an alien.

22:37

And, I mean, certainly in the land of Israel, you had categories of sojourners. Okay? Mm -hmm.

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So, I mean, you could talk about the situation with the law. Like in the law, under the law, there was a category of sojourners.

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When Solomon was going to build the temple, they rounded up all the resident aliens in the land.

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I mean, there was like hundreds of thousands of them. They rounded them all up and they put them to forced work. So, the Israelites were allowed to basically take the resident aliens of the land and functionally enslave them, basically.

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Now, that's not the situation that any people are advocating when they're advocating for sojourners in the sense that Israelites had them, right?

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So, there's that. So, I mean, I think there was a category for a sojourner as a passer -through.

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There was a category in the Old Covenant as a resident alien who didn't have the same rights as citizens that could be put to forced work that could become like slaves of the

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Israelites in that way. There's all sorts of categories for that, but I think when people are appealing to those things, they're not appealing to them correctly.

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But I think the main problem is the entitlement problem. Now, I mean, to the extent to which –

23:55

I mean, God's obviously blessing the West, right? God's obviously blessing the West.

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He's obviously blessing the West. There's a reason why people want to come over here for better opportunity, for better life.

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They're obviously fleeing places that are not nearly – there's not nearly as many opportunities as there are here.

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So, God has remarkably blessed the West. People are coming over here in order to get a hold of some of that blessing, right?

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Because they want to be included in part of that blessing. And then when they come, they are indeed blessed as a part of that blessing.

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And, you know, I mean, God describes Israel like seven women will take hold of one man and say basically, hey, we'll all grind our own grain.

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Only let us be called by your name, right? So, I mean, the idea that the nations are flooding over here because this is a place where so much of God's blessing has happened is certainly the world has been blessed through Christianity in the

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West. It's just obvious. I think that's largely a good thing and to the extent to which we could be a

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Christian influence on them and evangelize them, all those things are good. You know, all those things would be good in one sense.

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But then when you really give so many, when you blur the distinction between citizen and alien, sojourner, passer -through, whatever, to such a degree that we do where you give them all these basic rights to plunder the people, then it becomes a messier situation.

25:23

Right. So, we've talked a little bit about sort of the negative side of this discussion, meaning what are, you know, what does, you know, there are certain commands that the

25:36

Bible does give us about how you treat the foreigner, the sojourner in the land, you know, it gives to the

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Israelites. And we've sort of talked through some, you know, what that doesn't look like.

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But then in your mind, for people, you know, for Christians today, what does it look like to, you know, take care of the sojourner?

26:01

Are we supposed to take care of the sojourner the same way the Israelites were supposed to?

26:07

Yeah, I mean, the way that, the way that the

26:12

Israelites took care of the sojourner was they would not glean the corners of their field.

26:18

But that wasn't a public policy that was enforced from the top down, meaning there was no, it wasn't a crime.

26:27

So, you're told to not, not glean the corners of your field for the sojourner because you were sojourners in the land of Egypt.

26:34

That was a moral command. That wasn't a civil command. So that wasn't a command that had any civil penalty attached to it.

26:43

You didn't have, you know, the government inspectors coming around and ensuring that -

26:49

The corners. Yeah, or not. And then you're going to get thrown in jail if you don't do it. So it's basically, you have different kinds of laws in the

26:57

Old Testament, and that was a law that was to be individually applied in that way. Now, if you did, if you didn't leave the corners of your field, that was a sin, but it wasn't.

27:08

The point is it was a sin, but it wasn't a crime. Okay? Yeah. So now you did that in order to care for the sojourner, but the sojourner was not allowed to come into your land, take up a tool, and reap in your field.

27:23

Does that make sense? Yeah. They weren't allowed to do that. They weren't allowed to work your land.

27:28

They were allowed to grab a few things of grain as they passed by. So the whole idea of a sojourner is not, they're just going to camp out on your land in that corner and make that their home.

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And that's theirs now. That's theirs now. They're going to take farm implement to it and work it.

27:45

Like the point was, no, they're passer -throughs, right? They're passer -throughs. They're passing through, and you're supposed to be behind them.

27:53

Now the Israelites requested the ability to pass through Amalek's land, right?

27:59

And then instead of being able to pass through the land, they're being greeted with armies at that point.

28:08

So the Israelites are told to let the sojourners pass through. Now the whole idea of Israel is that, yeah, this is certainly a theocracy.

28:15

It's a nation that's governed by God. You don't have like idolaters coming into the land and essentially building their temples and building their structures devoted to destroy

28:27

Israel. I mean at that point, they would all get conquered, and Israel would run into that pretty quickly.

28:35

I'm not suggesting that our current national structure should mirror in every way the structure of Israel.

28:44

I'm just suggesting that there are some principles there that you should be mindful of, and anyone who is basically saying that our responsibility to care for sojourners means you basically allow anyone and everyone who wants to come to this nation, allow them all to come, and not only let them come, but also let them work your fields and have your land and have your property and everything else.

29:12

That's just very—it's not what the Old Testament is advocating at all. So you would be having to make a different kind of argument if that's what you're trying to establish.

29:20

But that's not what these passages are saying. So what does it look like for the

29:25

Christian then? In what sense? Well, it doesn't look like, hey, give them a free ride basically.

29:38

It doesn't look like give them free housing or free subsidized food from the government, health care, whatever.

29:49

So it doesn't look like that. But then for the individual Christian, how do they take care of the foreigner or the sojourner, and are they even responsible to today?

30:06

Yeah, a lot of it has become so messy because of the nature of the government that we have and the way that our government already does this.

30:15

But yeah, I think the most you could say is that there is an individual responsibility towards charity.

30:24

Mm -hmm. Towards charity. And it's very limited to the extent to which you could do that.

30:32

Meaning you only—in that sense, so Jesus says when the woman asked him to heal him, the

30:39

Samaritan woman asked him to heal him, he said it's not good to take the children's bread and give it to the dogs. And her response was yes, but even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from the master's table.

30:49

The point there is just to say Jesus established you. You do have a responsibility to your own family.

30:55

You do have a responsibility to your neighbor. You do have a responsibility to your church. You do have a responsibility to your own nation.

31:03

So you have a variety of responsibilities. And the point here is just to say that if you were to flood our country with millions of refugees,

31:16

I mean, at a certain point, your fields are going to run out. The corners of your field are going to run out, right? Yeah. So you are supposed to devote some food to charity.

31:26

But if it's limited, then the issue is it's supposed to be limited for a reason.

31:32

Mm -hmm. And that's just because you can't take care of the world. If you try to take care of the world, you'll take care of no one. That's the point. Right. So, I mean, and I've given that example before.

31:41

But, I mean, imagine you take all of your money, you turn it into pennies, and you try to help the world. Yeah. I mean, you wouldn't even be able to give your own – everyone in your city a penny.

31:55

It depends on how wealthy you are. But, I mean, the point is just to say maybe let's say you get everyone in your state one penny.

32:02

You didn't give everyone in the world a penny. And who's going to be thankful for a penny? Really, it's more insulting than anything.

32:11

Here's your penny of charity. Yeah. So, in trying to help everyone, you help no one.

32:17

Right. And you made them mad. And you failed to take care of the people you were called to take care of.

32:25

Yeah. Which is even worse. So, you think about that. I mean, you can't support the – you can't –

32:33

I don't newsflash. I just don't have enough money to support the world. Mm -hmm. Maybe –

32:40

I mean, I have some corners of a field, or maybe I can help a few people a little bit. But I can't.

32:46

I can't even help one person. The thing is, think about that analogy. Think about that metaphor.

32:52

And what you'll realize is, like the corner of the field kind of thing, my family is supposed to live on the whole rest of the field.

33:03

Mm -hmm. So, that tells you how much I can help. I can't indefinitely support even one other family.

33:11

Mm -hmm. Just by the ratios. Do you see what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. And they're not –

33:17

I'm not supposed to be – the call is not just to indefinitely house the nations.

33:22

You can't do it. You have to pick your battle. So, the idea is, as they're passing through, they'll have something to eat, right?

33:29

So, they don't starve to death. But that's the whole point of sojourners. The Israelites are requesting to pass through, and then they're being prevented from passing through.

33:39

So, it's just – yeah, I don't think you can permanently support anyone, but you should be doing good to those who are passing through for sure.

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So, do good to those who are passing through. Don't support open borders. Deport the women.

33:53

Deport the illegal women and children. That's the summary of the conversation. Don't support open borders.

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Meaning, are you asking me should we have a wall? No, no. I don't – that wasn't a comment about should we have a wall or not.

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It's more just saying should you have borders because I think there are

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Christians that would – I don't know if they would outright say, yes, we don't need borders, but then functionally the things that they're saying

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Christians should do, the implication is essentially don't have borders at that point.

34:32

So, not necessarily a comment on a wall, but if you want to talk about should we build a wall or not and should we line it with barbed wire and put a moat in front of it with alligators and sharks, then

34:45

I'm free to talk. I'm open to talking about that too. If you make it effortlessly easy for everyone to come, the problem is that envy is a real thing.

34:57

I mean, when Hezekiah showed the emissaries all the gold and the shields and everything else, they came and they plundered them.

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So, I think we're living in a country that has a lot of prosperity at this point and people want to come here for a reason.

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If you make it just as easy as you possibly can, the land won't be able to sustain them.

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So, Abraham and Lot, the land couldn't sustain both of them, so they had to go their own separate ways. And Abraham gave

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Lot the choice of the land, so to speak. But the issue is that when you're in a place of blessing, if there are no breaks on the system, and you say anyone who wants to come can come, and then if you try to financially subsidize it, which –

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So, we're in a situation where we're both encouraging people to come illegally and we're going to subsidize them when they do.

35:50

And then we also make it a little bit hard too, right? So, we don't make it just totally easy, right?

35:56

It's not just totally easy. There are borders, there are checkpoints, there are people who are kind of trying to do their job a little bit, and then they're trying to look their other way.

36:04

And so, there is some discouragement of people just flooding the place. But, I mean, if you really just conceptually imagine a situation where you just say, hey, open borders, no patrolling, anyone can come they want, and we'll give you free cell phone housing and medical care and everything else.

36:22

And an Xbox. Here's your Xbox. Yeah, an Xbox, yeah. I mean, if you went that route, I mean, very quickly we're in trouble, right?

36:30

And a lot of what you see happening in Europe is you see that they're less – they're more lax than we are in patrolling and policing all these things.

36:41

So, you let the third world in, you get the third world, and that's kind of what happens. So, yeah,

36:46

I think we're simultaneously trying to discourage it, but then also encouraging it. So, assuming they get over and they conquer the obstacles and everything else and they get here, but a lot of people are turning a blind eye to all that.

37:00

The point, though, is just to say that, man, like, yeah, we can't sustain everyone.

37:09

Now, if you were to remove all the entitlements, we still don't have enough land for everyone to come here.

37:16

So, there has to be some filtering process. There has to be some procedure. And I'm not going to be the one who's defining what is the best procedure, but,

37:25

I mean, if you're living in one of the greatest countries on the planet, one of the most prosperous countries in the world, just saying anyone can come that wants to come with no breaks whatsoever, that's not really sustainable.

37:39

That's not a good thing. It's not sustainable long -term. It's not going to work. So, you do have to have some kind of way of figuring out how you're going to sustain it all.

37:54

So, related to just like a completely open border policy,

38:00

I think that's probably – I mean, there's just – that only works when you're in a country no one wants to come to.

38:05

Okay? And it's probably so they can all leave and go somewhere else. Please come.

38:12

I mean, but, yeah. Okay. No one wants to be there.

38:19

So, when you're in a very prosperous place, it's very different. Okay. Well, fair enough.

38:25

I think that's a good place for us to wrap up the conversation on. So, thank you, Tim, for answering all of my loaded questions, my emotionally manipulative questions.

38:38

But I do think it is a good thing to think through because it's just been a topic that people have been talking about for,

38:45

I mean, decades really. But especially now, it seems like this is probably the worst it's ever been, at least in a very long time, certainly in my lifetime,

38:57

I think. So, it's good for Christians to think through what are we actually obligated by God to do, what would be good to do, what would be profitable to do, and then what would be bad to do, what would be unloving to do.

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Because I think there's a lot of confused Christians, and I think there's a lot of people who would seek to prey on the charity of Christians in order to seek out their own gain, essentially.

39:31

So, it's good for us to think through what is good and right and what is wrong. So, thank you,

39:37

Tim, for walking us through all that. We want to thank you guys for supporting us week in and week out, listening to the podcast episodes and interacting with us online.

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40:40

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Now, go boldly and obey the truth in the midst of a biblically illiterate world who will be perpetually offended by your every move.