July 28, 2022 Show with Brandon Knox on “Leadership Through Suffering”

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Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century Gospel Minister George Norcross in downtown

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Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,

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Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the Church and the world today.

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Proverbs 27, verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have a view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

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And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet

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Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is

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Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Thursday on this 28th day of July 2022.

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And I'm thrilled, honored, and have such a sense of privilege to have on the program today, for the very first time,

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Brandon Knox. He is a West Point cadet, Army Ranger, and Special Operations veteran who served at home and on the battlefield, including the

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National Joint Operations and Intelligence Center within the Pentagon, Forward Navy SEAL Task Force, Joint Special Operations Task Afghanistan, U .S.

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Embassy Kabul, and across several bases in Iraq and Afghanistan, training and fighting alongside foreign national partners.

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Currently, Brandon is Chaplain and Vice President for Student Affairs at Riverside Military Academy in Gainesville, Georgia.

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Today we're going to be addressing the theme of his doctoral dissertation with the

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Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Kentucky, Leadership Through Suffering.

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And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you, for the very first time ever, to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Brandon Knox.

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Thank you so much. Oh, my pleasure. And, Brandon, first of all, we have a tradition here on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio where we have our first -time guests give a summary of their salvation testimonies, and I would love to hear yours.

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Absolutely, and good afternoon to everybody. The story of God saving my life, to Him be all the glory, began a long time ago when

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I was in middle school. My parents and my sister, we've all served in the military in some way, shape, or form.

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At the time of middle school, I was living in Fayetteville, North Carolina, near Fort Bragg, which is one of the biggest military installations for the

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Army, and I was going to a Christian school there in Fayetteville, and praise

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God that I was surrounded by such godly witnesses and saw the gospel being lived out.

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In middle school, I began to wonder what it was about their selflessness, the lull of their character, and then

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I began to really hear God's word pierce my heart through weekly chapel services.

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Through all those things, at a concert for a local choir, they came and sang, and one of the singers gave his testimony and gave a very clear 1

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Corinthians 15 gospel presentation of the life, death, burial of Jesus Christ.

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With that, there is a requirement of a response and a commitment, and that response is admitting your sin, believing in Christ, and then committing your life to Him to take up your cross.

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God was working in my heart, and He certainly worked in my heart at that moment, and went up to the stage and prayed the sinner's prayer.

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And that began God's working in my life. It certainly wasn't the end, it was just the beginning of my ongoing sanctification.

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I hope that answers your question, sir. Amen. And if you could, also, tell us about what began a strong desire in your heart and mind to enter into the military.

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Absolutely, sir. So, fast forward a few years later, it was

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September 11, 2001. Like all of us, I'm sure that we can remember what we were doing when we heard about the awful, just the awful succession of planes and the

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Pentagon being hit in Pennsylvania. I was with my mom at the time, and just getting my senior photos done, and really praying about at the time whether to go into ministry, into the military.

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And 9 -11 changed, I know, arguably for everybody the rest of their lives. For me, personally, it really stirred in my heart a passion to serve.

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My dad was still on active duty at the time. And obviously, for a lot of us,

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I was praying so much for those people that had lost their lives, their loved ones. I prayed for the military, including my dad, who had deployed soon after that event.

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And through that prayer, I felt a clear call to go to West Point. And God brought an amazing individual named

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Noble Gibbons, who was at the time a captain, a 1996 graduate of West Point, and most importantly, a very faithful man of God.

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He invited me up to West Point. And after that, sir, I was just praying, praying hard and working hard.

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And through the love and care of my parents and mentors, I was able to receive an appointment and go to West Point.

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Well, praise God. Now I know that you have also entered into training for the pastoral ministry.

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And in fact, as I have already mentioned in my introduction of you, you have written a doctoral dissertation pursuing a

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Ph .D. at the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Kentucky. The theme that we are addressing today is the same theme as your doctoral dissertation,

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Leadership Through Suffering. What was it that placed an additional conviction upon your heart and mind to enter into pastoral ministry?

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Absolutely. So a lot of my, if you will, spiritual upbringing started in high school, but really, really blossomed and was nourished, obviously, through the

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Holy Spirit working my life, God's Word. But as far as the relationships and discipleship,

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I really began to turn my heart to pastoral ministry because I saw the huge need in the

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Army, you know, being a cadet and, you know, talking about the Army, living in the Army. I saw a huge need just for loving and caring for people's souls.

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And during West Point, I had various Bible studies and helped with para -church ministries.

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And I had a wonderful mentor who was the chaplain of West Point, John Cook. And then one of my best friends,

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Jerry Brandenburg, we all were pursuing Christ. My other best friend, Jared McCleary, we were all pursuing

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Christ. And we all are in the pastoral ministry today, praise God. And a lot of that started at West Point.

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And then when I graduated, I was, if you could say fortunate and unfortunate.

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Every time I was deployed overseas, I was not really near a chaplain or near a chapel.

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I was stationed on remote bases where, yeah, the chaplain didn't come around as much.

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And we just didn't have chapel services every Sunday because of the off -tempo of combat operations.

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And so that gave me the opportunity to, with obviously the commander and chaplain's blessing, to serve our soldiers.

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And at the time, excuse me, on one deployment, I was with Navy Sears and other branches to lead chapel service.

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I was able to baptize a soldier. And, yeah, just continued to grow a passion for pastoring.

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And when I was a young captain, one of the churches that we attended offered me a scholarship to go to seminary.

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And that's when I began my long journey toward receiving my Master's of Divinity. And now, praise

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God for support of the local church, and then now Lakewood Baptist. And they're the mentors who encouraged me to begin a

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Ph .D. And so I'm only around about a year and a half in to doctoral studies.

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But I'm excited to begin my research on this topic of suffering. Praise God.

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Well, tell us, first of all, before we get into the theme of leadership through suffering specifically,

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I have always been fascinated having conversations with Christians in the military about the challenges, the specific and unique challenges that are faced by those serving our nation in the military, where they are firmly committed believers in Jesus Christ.

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And especially in a day and age of the woke movement and critical race theory and hypersensitivity over what leftists may view as religious bigotry, when it's nothing more than remaining true and faithful to the religious convictions a particular individual may have, seeing his own faith as being the one and only true faith.

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And that can bring up problems in many spheres of life. How has it been as a firmly committed

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Christian such as yourself, not only being in the military, but as a chaplain, when these things exist, they are clearly causing tension and all kinds of division within not only the realms of academia and the realms of industry and the corporate world, but in the military.

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And even things, of course, such as homosexuality, transgenderism.

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How are you standing true and faithful in an unwavering and uncompromising commitment to your

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Christian faith in the midst of all that? Absolutely. So when

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Paul is speaking to the Ephesian elders, he says in Acts 20, 32, Now I commend to you

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God and to the word of His grace, which is able to build you up and to give you the inheritance among all those who are sanctified.

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So there were certainly times where, you know, life isn't,

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Christianity is not about what we can get from God, or that everything's going to be perfect, or it's

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God and His benefits and that's it. There certainly is hardships in being a Christian and we're called to take up our cross.

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For me, serving in the military as a Christian, there's no greater honor. But in those times of hardship,

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I really cling to what Paul says here, to commending myself to God and to His word.

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Those things really sustained me and encouraged me through the local church, through my wife, through mentors, to essentially stay the course and remain committed to truth when it's certainly not popular nowadays.

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And we can't sway from the truth, which is Jesus clearly says in John 14, He is the only way, the truth, and the life.

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Amen. And so how has the feedback been from fellow soldiers, fellow people in the military, including your superiors?

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Has it been made difficult for you to remain a faithful Christian in what you say and how you perform your duties as a chaplain?

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Yes, sir. So while I served on active duty for 10 years, I was an infantry officer.

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So I was surrounded by incredible leaders, incredible soldiers, noncommissioned officers.

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Sometimes the leadership that I served under, and again, being an infantry officer, you're essentially closing with and destroying the enemy.

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I was not a chaplain then. So with that brings certain personalities, certain worldviews.

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But you'd be surprised. There's a lot of believers in that community. Having said that, though, there were certainly commanders that I had that thought that my commitment to the

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Lord, wanting to try and be humble, were seen as signs of weakness. And I, to a fault, and I've confessed this sin and worked this out with mentors and others, is when

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Paul talks about in Galatians 1 .10 about, you know, am I seeking the approval of God or of man?

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And in times of, you know, not persecution like, you know, being physically hit or anything, but just verbally, do

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I care more about what God thinks and what God and His truth, or am

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I focused on what these men have to say about me? And there have been times where I'm focused too much on what others say about me and about my faith when, you know,

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I'm holding on to lies instead of clinging to God's truth. And that's something I've had to work out and be really careful about not letting those thoughts and those things rule my life as far as my thought life.

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And instead, make sure my heart and mind are saturated in God's truth and in great brothers and to make sure that, you know,

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I'm being honest and open with my wife. So there has been certainly, sir, seasons of difficulty, that's for sure.

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Well, let's enter into the very theme that we are discussing today, the theme of your doctoral dissertation, leadership through suffering.

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Now, unfortunately, the way many people pursue being a leader in all spheres of leadership, whether it be in the military, whether it be in the corporate sphere, the academic sphere, whatever sphere it may be, when people pursue leadership and in sports as well, unfortunately, their leadership or their attempts at leadership causes suffering.

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But you're talking about something different. You're speaking about leadership through suffering.

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And if you could give us some of the main elements on that issue that have taught you great lessons in regard to this very theme.

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Well, if I could share part of my testimony to answer this question.

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I have been a local pastor before. And, you know, pastoring is something that unless you've done it, you really don't understand it.

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And it's so hard, you know, shepherding

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God's flock and preaching the word and carrying your congregation's burdens.

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It's difficult. It's not for everybody. It's a calling for sure. And I pastored during the pandemic,

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COVID pandemic. And I know we all can agree that was just an extremely trying time, a divisive time.

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It was certainly hard for medical professionals and pastors and all this.

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For me, I definitely faced outright opposition as a pastor.

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And it was very difficult to lead a congregation, particularly a group of leaders, lay leaders, through that time.

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And I fell back, unfortunately, on some of my military training and tried to just will things to happen.

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Just tried to pull up my bootstraps and just push, push and push and push.

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Do, do, do, do, do. It was relying way too much on my own strength to try and help people through their hardships, through trying to get people more into the word.

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And, you know, just pastoring in general, shepherding my family, just the difficulties of COVID.

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I was leading out of my physical strength and instead of praying so much,

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I was, I was prayerless. I wasn't praying like I should have been. Like Jesus going out with a father beginning of Mark to the end before his death.

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You see clear examples of Jesus just intimate time praying through the night and early in the morning with his father.

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And unfortunately, there were times when I was pastoring and I look back to some times in the army of extreme hardship when

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I relied way too much on my own strength. And so I wanted to take a step back from all that and learn.

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And as I've done that, I've talked to many leaders in many contexts who have struggled with that same thing.

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They're walking with God, they're being faithful. But when the hardship comes, now what do

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I do? And we can tend to fall back on our flesh. Certainly God has given us strengths and abilities, but those gotta come from a foundation of faith.

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And that's where my doctoral passions came from, sir. So the area of suffering through, the area of suffering over which you are emphasizing, it producing good leadership qualities.

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Is this suffering that involves you or a potential leader or leader?

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Or is it suffering that you're witnessing? Is it both? Yeah, so what

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I'm hoping to do is begin like any good doctoral dissertation, you know, basically the why.

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Why is this important? And obviously the why above all is to bring glory to God and to get people further and further into their walk with the

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Lord. But having said that, there will certainly be some personal elements, but a lot of the research, a lot of the actual presentation will come from in -depth studies of passages like 1

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Peter 4, Romans 5, Acts 20, where suffering is very clearly laid out.

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That it's not a matter of if, but when. You know, suffering is coming. And then, you know, looking at examples of faithfulness in suffering, like Matthew 4 with Jesus in the desert.

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And as I mentioned earlier, Acts 20, where Paul is just constrained by the Spirit. Knowing that suffering's coming, and he just faithfully goes.

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And as he says, you know, hardship's coming. So what I want to do is, I want to, you know, study those further in detail biblically, looking at the original languages.

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And then dig into doing surveys and actual sit -downs with pastors, with leaders who have been through suffering.

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And be able to query from them, what were some spiritual disciplines? What were some experiences?

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What were some things that helped you, you know, for the good and also for the bad in leading your family, your church, your business through periods of hardship?

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And being able to share, you know, the results of those surveys. And that will come to some conclusions of what are some general themes.

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And then suggest some training material for pastors, some training material for fathers with their sons, with their children.

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So that we can equip men and women more into the future being prepared for hardship.

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Because it's not a matter of if it's coming, it's when. We see it very clearly in the news and in the world that there's just a tightening grip on our faith.

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So I'm hoping to equip parents, equip business leaders, young pastors that are in seminaries.

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So when these come, they're not necessarily caught flat -footed. And all that's rooted in trusting in God.

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It's not a five steps toward getting out of suffering. It's all going to come back to leaning on the

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Lord. But there is, God has given us a very clear mind.

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And I think there is some training and some teaching that can help men and women in this endeavor.

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And I'm excited about it. Now, Romans 8 .28 is a powerful truth of Scripture.

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It's one of the most powerful things that I have always personally relied upon when going through a trial.

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Well, suffering in some sense. Especially after the death of loved ones.

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And I know that it has, Romans 8 .28. For all things shall work together for the good for those who love

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God and are the cold according to His purpose. I know that that powerful truth has been abused in some senses by Christians.

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It has become a placard. It has become a cliche. But it doesn't diminish the fact that those

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God -breathed words are no less true today than they were when they were first penned through the inspiration of the

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Holy Spirit. How does one properly convey to those that he is intending to lead that no matter what fear, apprehension, anxiety, or suffering they may be going through now or will endure or be faced to endure?

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That you have an empathy toward them. Not necessarily that you've experienced everything that they've experienced or will experience.

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But there is a connection that your having experienced these things will make them trust you more as a leader.

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Yeah, for sure. Well, we say in the military, people don't care how much you know until they know you care.

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And I think that's really true in any. I've not only been in the military, but I've been in an engineering business, building power plants.

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And now I've been a pastor. Now I'm in a high school setting. And that theme just resonates.

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Do you show those that you're entrusted to lead, do you care about them? I come back to Mark 10 .45

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where Jesus says, I did not come to be served, but to serve and give my life as a ransom for many.

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So in those moments of hardship for people, the hope is that they're coming to you because they already know you care about them because of your selflessness, your leadership, your care for them.

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And selflessness and care isn't just necessary, quote unquote, being nice, but it's being intentional with them.

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It's speaking truth in their life. I think that's what care really is. And when you are in those moments,

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I think we're tempted, particularly as men, to be problem solvers and feel like we have to solve their problem right then and there.

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And I've learned that there's such an important value. And you see Jesus do this with his disciples and with others where you see

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Christ listening and then asking just very intentional questions. And in those moments, we don't need to have the answer for them.

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But what we do need to say is, hey, I hear you. I listen to you. We don't need to say, hey, suck it up and you'll get over it kind of thing, because I've been told that.

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What we do need to do is say, hey, I'm willing to pray and walk with you through this and essentially say, this isn't the only time we're going to talk about this.

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We're going to walk through it with you and constantly praying and checking on that person is so, so important.

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We're all busy, sir. But when somebody comes to you like that, they've been pondering it for arguably probably a good while.

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So if we're asking questions, if we're listening, I think we're really ministering them in a way that is careful, that is caring of them, excuse me, and thoughtful.

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Now, there is a stereotype of military leaders that permeates radio.

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I'm sorry, not radio, but television and movies. Yes, sir. Where you have typically a macho drill sergeant who will mentally torment soldiers in order for them to, in his mind, in order for these young soldiers, these privates to be prepared for circumstances in the battlefield that may be infinitely worse than what they are experiencing at the mouths of the drill sergeants.

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Sometimes in the movies and in television, this has even gone through the lengths of some form of physical torture, as it will.

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I don't want to be too extreme in my language here, but I'm not speaking of the normal, grueling, physical things that are involved in the exercises and other things that are imposed upon those that need to be physically prepared.

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But there are things that, in the stereotype, I don't know how real the stereotype is,

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I've never been in the military, but in the stereotype, these things are conducted with the idea that this is going to keep this soldier alive.

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Or it's at least going to, you can't guarantee that, of course, but at least it is going to better prepare that soldier to mentally, emotionally, and physically endure what awaits him that may aid in his survival.

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And one of the greatest examples of this in film that I can remember is in the movie, and I don't know if you've seen it, but it is an extraordinary movie called

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Glory, which was about the first all -black regiment in the

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Civil War, in the Union Army, which was led by a white officer.

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And there is a scene when this white officer is witnessing one of his black friends, a very close friend that he had prior to this black individual's enlistment in the

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Army. He was being treated in a very brutal fashion, both verbally and physically, by an

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Irish drill sergeant. And when the friend of that black soldier pulled the

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Irish sergeant aside for a moment of private rebuke, that Irish drill sergeant basically said that if you want your friend to survive, this is how

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I'm going to have to treat him. He said it with a lot more colorful words and expletives than I'm using here.

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But is that true? I mean, how much benefit does that really carry with it in the military as far as your understanding?

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I know that a Christian officer, he can never, if he is going to be honorable and obedient to Christ and his word, he cannot do anything that is sin.

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But at the same time, that doesn't mean that he has to be soft on soldiers, if indeed that is going to further endanger their own lives.

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But at the same time, is that kind of harsh and aggressive behavior on the part of a military leader essential, and where should a leader in that realm draw the line?

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Absolutely. Wonderful description you made.

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Glory paints that really well. Unfortunately, I wouldn't want to emulate that kind of behavior.

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I have certainly been yelled at a lot, and there certainly is a place.

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Another thing we say in the military is your training should be harder than war, right?

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As much as you can simulate, your training should make you mentally and physically ready to where when war comes, you're already just in muscle memory.

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You're practicing like on the football field. When you get on the game, you're just ready to perform because you're mentally and physically sharpened, and you've been pushed harder than where you are right then and there.

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I will tell you that there have been times out on the battlefield where I have had to certainly raise my voice and do things because it was a serious thing, and we had to get attention and get people to, in the midst of the panic, listen and do what we needed to do.

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But the leaders that I have seen, sir, and leaders in the most elite counterterrorism units,

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I have been right next to them, and I have seen men that I've really respected have never had to do that, sir.

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Their aura about them, their leadership has demanded respect, so I don't think that that is necessary.

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I'm a West Point grad, and if you watch movies like Patton, you could see Pat doing that when the guys are hurt.

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Again, in the military, we're not building pansies, but I don't think it's really necessary for constantly berating people and screaming at people.

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To be honest with you, when you do that all the time, people don't know when to take you seriously, and they just start to mute it out.

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I'm assuming it could become background noise after a while. 100%. And a lot of expletive cuss words don't help either.

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Right. In fact, we're going to pick up where we left off. We have to go to our first break right now. Yes, sir.

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And when we return, we'll pick up where we left off. If anybody has a question for Brandon Knox, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

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Give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA. Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

34:49

Don't go away. We'll be right back with Brandon Knox and our discussion on leadership through suffering after these messages from our sponsors.

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That's edwardjones .com. Or call 717 -258 -4688.

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717 -258 -4688. We here at Iron Sharpens Iron Radio are forever grateful for the generous financial support of Art Amundsen, Edward Jones financial advisor in Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

40:03

Call 717 -258 -4688 today. Welcome back.

40:09

This is Chris Arnzen. If you just tuned us in, our guest today for the entire program is Brandon Knox, and he is chaplain and vice president for student affairs at Riverside Military Academy in Gainesville, Georgia, and we're addressing leadership through suffering.

40:25

If you have a question, our email address is chrisarnzen at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

40:34

Please give us your first name at least, your city and state, and your country of residence. Before I go to listener questions,

40:43

I actually have a listener comment. Good evening, Chris.

40:48

Glad that Brandon is on the show. Gainesville, Georgia is my hometown, and we moved back here after graduating from Carlisle War College.

40:58

He is a wise and godly young man. Please give him my warm regards and keep up the good work.

41:04

In his grip, Colonel Kevin Girard. I thought that that would encourage you.

41:11

Very much so, sir. And let's see.

41:16

We have an actual question now. In fact, it's a question from someone that you know very well because you've already mentioned him in the beginning of this program as being a friend of yours.

41:31

Pastor Jeremy Brandenburg of Redeemer Orthodox Presbyterian Church in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, has a question.

41:39

What Christian leader in church history have you encountered who has made a lasting impression on you?

41:49

That's a great question, Jeremy. As far as Christian leader in the church,

41:58

I would have to say, if you had to pick a missionary, it would probably be

42:05

Leslie Newbigin. Pastor Charles Spurgeon. Yeah, Charles Haddon Spurgeon, the 19th century pastor of Metropolitan Tabernacle in London, England.

42:20

And he is actually a prime example of someone who was able to achieve from the historical record an enormous ability and successful ability and successful in God's terms, not man's,

42:39

I'm speaking of. Well, in some sense, even the standards of men, because there were thousands who came to hear him preach regularly, so that would be something that even men in the secular realm view as success.

42:55

But Charles Haddon Spurgeon, I think, from what the historical record tells us and from what

43:02

Spurgeon's own words tell us, his rising to a prominent and successful Christian leader while always maintaining faithfulness to the scriptures and obedience to God was his own suffering.

43:20

Not only his own physical suffering with gout and other maladies, but he was known for chronic depression.

43:32

And some of that depression came about after the deaths of a number of individuals in his own church building who were trampled to death when someone perpetrated a hoax in the crowded auditorium where Spurgeon's congregation was meeting by yelling, into the building, and when people were fleeing for their lives, sadly, there were some who were trampled to death.

44:02

And that depression from that lingered in Spurgeon's life until he died at a relatively young age.

44:12

He was in his 50s. But is that one of the reasons that you view him so highly in this regard?

44:19

I do. A couple things. That's a wonderful description of his life, sir.

44:26

I was just in awe. He could have been where you see it throughout history, even today, where we can get, quote unquote, popular and we get a massive following and we can make that fame, that success center on us, right?

44:46

And Spurgeon, his pastor's college, I believe it was in London, trained almost 900 pastors.

44:54

So instead of holding on to that fame, quote unquote, that success, just the way

45:01

God worked through him, he equipped and trained so many. And his literature, his sermons have certainly impacted me.

45:09

Secondly, I have had my own battles in mental health, just dealing with some of the things in combat.

45:18

And I just love his transparency. I think we need more of that. I think we need to be more honest and real with each other.

45:25

And that type of leadership, his care for his young pastors, just truly inspires me in more ways than one.

45:35

Praise God. Well, thank you, Pastor Jeremy. And since you are a pastor whose congregation

45:43

I highly recommend, I will provide our listeners with your website.

45:50

It is RedeemerOPC .org, RedeemerOPC, which stands for Orthodox Presbyterian Church .org,

45:57

RedeemerOPC .org. And I look forward to Pastor Jeremy returning to the show as a guest as well.

46:05

Thank you very much. We have a question for you from Jenny in Fort Sill, Oklahoma.

46:16

Cool. I'm an Army chaplain's spouse. My husband and I have just arrived at our fifth and perhaps final duty station.

46:24

As a fellow sufferer in Christ, I was wondering if Chaplain Knox could offer me any advice as to how

46:32

I can better support my husband during this time of transition and uncertainty.

46:38

And then she has one other question that I will ask after you respond to the first. Thank you, ma 'am, for your question.

46:48

And God bless you and your ministry out at Fort Sill. That is a critical place for our

46:56

Army. First, I would just humbly suggest, and I know they already know this, but just to encourage you, please, please find a gospel -centered

47:05

Bible -preaching church that can feed you both spiritually.

47:12

And Lord willing, if you have children, please get involved in a local church. And with that,

47:19

I encourage you to get into a small group so that you can be encouraged because I know you all are giving and giving.

47:27

And you need to make sure you have that fellowship. I would also say I think that for men and women in ministry,

47:36

I think looking at 1 Peter 3, 1 through 7 is just a wonderful example of, you know, a calling from Peter.

47:46

And women in ministry supporting their husbands through prayer and men living with their wives, as it says in verse 7, in an understanding way, showing honor to the woman.

47:58

Just showing this mutual prayer, honor for each other is so important.

48:06

And for military spouses, the optempo, you can be away from each other and through prayer and encouraging one another with words of encouragement and love can really, really go a long way, particularly when you're separated.

48:22

And that would be my advice. Great. And Jenny has one follow -up question, and I had it right in front of me.

48:33

Where is it? Oh, here it is. Does Chaplain Knox's wife have any best family practices, she has in quotes, for stabilizing the home after rapid deployments?

48:45

We are coming from a rapid deploying unit into an advanced individual training,

48:53

Army traditions and doctrines setting. My wife is very clearly my better half and an incredible woman of God.

49:03

And what she does so well for me is she helps bring structure to the home.

49:09

What we do, no matter what job, where we live, routine for children, and I can tell you from being in education, routine and structure is so important.

49:21

And what we do, and she does it better than me, is we have these theology cards that we do at the dinner table where it's just a little card and it has a core belief as Christians, sanctification,

49:37

Holy Spirit. And mind you, our kids are young, 3, 6, 9, so sometimes it can be difficult to have a digital conversation, but we do those.

49:48

We ask the children around the table to pray for someone. And through that routine, it's just become part of our daily lives.

49:55

I would highly encourage, if parents are looking for good books on shepherding children, to look at Dr.

50:02

Martyn Lloyd -Jones' book on children's shepherding, Children God's Way, or Voddie Bauckham's book on parenting.

50:09

Those are just a couple, off the tip of my tongue, wonderful parenting resources. But I'll be in prayer for you, ma 'am.

50:16

Great. Thanks, Jenny. And continue to listen to the program in Oklahoma and spreading the word about the program there and beyond.

50:29

I truly appreciate you submitting a very relevant question for our guest today.

50:35

In fact, I have an additional book recommendation that has become a classic.

50:44

And I know that Colonel Kevin Gerard loves this book and has given away, as he has put it, multiple copies, countless numbers of copies of this book.

50:59

It's a book called Thoughts for Young Men by J .C. Ryle. J .C.

51:05

Ryle was a very biblically faithful, reformed

51:11

Anglican bishop in the 19th century. And you could get this phenomenal book from Solid Ground Christian Books, one of our sponsors.

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And if you would like to order that, just to let you know, the website of Solid Ground Christian Books is solid -ground -books .com,

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solid -ground -books .com. It even has soldiers, a photograph of soldiers on the cover of the book.

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And I have heard nothing but praise for this book from anyone who has read it, and most who have read it purchase multiple copies and distribute them, just like Colonel Kevin Gerard has done.

51:59

But thank you so much for your question once again,

52:04

Jenny. We have to go to our midway break. This break is always the longer -than -normal break, because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1

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FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of us a longer break in the middle of the show, because the FCC requires of them to localize

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Iron Trump and Zion Radio to Lake City, Florida, geographically, and they do so with their own public service announcements and other local announcements that they air on their station.

52:33

And simultaneously, we are airing our globally heard commercials.

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So please use this time wisely. Please write down as much of the information that our advertisers provide so that you can more frequently and successfully respond to our advertisers.

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And when you cannot purchase their products and use their services and support their parachurch organizations and visit their churches, when you can't do those things, and we hope that you do do those things whenever you can, but when you can't, at the very least, please respond to our advertisers by thanking them for sponsoring

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So please try to keep them happy so they continue to renew their advertising contracts.

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And don't go away. We are going to be right back right after these messages from our sponsors.

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Send in your questions to chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com,

53:41

and give us your first name, your city and state, and country of residence. We'll be right back. Attention all men in ministry leadership.

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You're all invited to my friend Chris Arnson's Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Free Pastors Luncheon, Thursday, September 22nd, 11 a .m.

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from Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. Before I return to Brandon Knox and our discussion on leadership through suffering, we just have a few other important announcements to make.

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01:11:54

That's chrisarnson at gmail .com. I need a church in the subject line. That's also the email address where you can send in a question for our guest today,

01:12:01

Brandon Knox, who is chaplain at Riverside Military Academy.

01:12:07

And we are discussing leadership through suffering. chrisarnson at gmail .com. chrisarnson at gmail .com

01:12:15

is our mailing address. And we have several more questions for you,

01:12:23

Brandon. And I'm looking for them right now. Let's see here.

01:12:28

We have Cindy in Findlay, Ohio. Let's see.

01:12:35

Where is that? Where is that question? I was just looking at it. Okay, that's not it.

01:12:44

Let's see. Where is that question from Cindy? Well, let me let me

01:12:49

I can't find it right now. Let me go to another question. Let me go to an anonymous listener.

01:12:58

Knowing of what seemed to be absolutely crazy standards these days in the military, especially from the far left, including the woke movement and the

01:13:12

LBGTQ movement. How enthusiastically do you encourage young people who are desiring to enlist in the military?

01:13:23

Yes, sir. Great question. So in my current role, I'm not allowed to directly recruit for the

01:13:32

Army. But I will tell you, over these past three weeks, I've had boys from rising sixth grade to 12th grade and had a little over 60 here.

01:13:47

And throughout the past couple weeks, we've been exposing them to different aspects of the military.

01:13:54

And there has been overwhelmingly positive feedback from these young men about the importance of what the military teaches you, not only about yourself but about being a good teammate.

01:14:06

And regardless of what's going on in the news, we can get distracted from the main purpose of the military, and that's to fight and win our nation's wars and keep us safe.

01:14:21

And the military desperately needs men and women, particularly believers, to serve in our armed forces.

01:14:29

And I wouldn't be still wearing my uniform today if I didn't believe in it, if I didn't believe in what it's done for me.

01:14:38

And I am honored to be here at Riverside, and there's a lot of young men who are going to put on the uniform, and I'm proud and know that they're going to carry us into the future.

01:14:49

My advice to those out there that are frustrated with what's going on, just know that there are quite a few senior leaders that I know and others that want to keep the main thing, the main thing in the military.

01:15:04

It hasn't gone completely off to the deep end, if that makes sense. Well, thank you,

01:15:10

Anonymous. If you are a first -time questioner, give me your full name and mailing address.

01:15:16

Of course, that information will not be divulged over the air, because first -time questioners always win a free

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New American Standard Bible, who, by the way, in an answer to prayer, not only my prayers, but the prayers of many of our listeners, the publishers of the

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New American Standard Bible just yesterday renewed their advertising contract with Iron Truck and Zion Radio, so I am ecstatic right now.

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But we thank them for providing the Bibles as well, in addition to their financial support.

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They provide Bibles for first -time questioners, so if you happen to be one of them, send us your full name and mailing address, and that will be shipped out to you by Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, cvbbs .com,

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cvbbs .com. We thank them as well for shipping out our winners, their books, Bibles, and other things that they win.

01:16:11

I found the question from Cindy in Findley, Ohio. What advice would you have for a young man graduating high school who previously considered joining the armed services, but was discouraged by his father from doing so?

01:16:28

Do you feel it is a good idea to join the military in order to obtain an education when one cannot otherwise afford a higher education because of finances?

01:16:39

Well, before you even answer, I would think that if that was the only reason a person wanted to join the military, that would disturb me as an

01:16:47

American citizen, knowing that we had thousands of soldiers out there who were only there for a higher education, and not because of a firm belief in the duty and honor that accompanies being in the military.

01:17:05

But anyway, that's my two cents, but what would you have to say? Yeah, sure, and I certainly don't want to seem like I'm circumventing the father's desire and what he wants, but what

01:17:20

I would say is the best recruiters for the military are the ones that are actually wearing the uniform, and the ones that are actually doing it to get a ground truth of what's really going on.

01:17:30

I will tell you from my own, you know, I come from a family where we didn't have a plethora of money, and praise

01:17:38

God that the government did help me, has helped me from bachelor's degree down through PhD.

01:17:44

I've had the ability to not have any educational debt. I know of many other family members who have had that blessing.

01:17:51

What I will say is, yes, the education is a byproduct, but one of the things that I think is really important to know is that when you join the military, you not only get the educational benefits, but you get the personal growth.

01:18:07

You get the brotherhood, sisterhood, and then when you leave, you get all the amazing benefits and blessings of being a veteran from your home and educational benefits.

01:18:20

There's health care potential. I've been doing this now almost 15 years, and I'm so grateful for all the blessings it's given me.

01:18:29

It doesn't come without a cost on you and your family. If you're,

01:18:35

I believe it was your son, if he'd like to talk to me, I'm more than willing to. Thank you,

01:18:43

Cindy in Findlay, Ohio. By the way, Cindy just sent in a follow -up email saying that this young man to whom she refers is a very patriotic young man, so the higher education benefit was not the sole reason the young man wanted to enlist.

01:19:04

Also, just to add to what you said about not wanting to contradict the wishes of the young man's father, wouldn't there be a difference in regard to a

01:19:21

Christian obeying the command to honor his father and mother?

01:19:27

Wouldn't there be a difference between a father discouraging a son from enlisting and forbidding him to enlist?

01:19:38

Yes. And also, whether that son is still under the roof of that father when he is an adult and providing for himself out on his own, doesn't that also change the circumstance?

01:19:52

It does. Absolutely. All righty. Let's see.

01:19:58

We have Joseph in South Central Pennsylvania.

01:20:04

Can you share some personal stories and anecdotes about your experiences, whether on the battlefield or in other realms of military service, that have helped further educate you on what it means to be a true leader?

01:20:24

Yeah, that's a wonderful question. I would say a lot of where this doctoral work comes from, and I'm answering the question here, but a lot of my doctoral work comes from failure.

01:20:39

I think you can learn a lot from failure and from adversity. And so I've had some leadership experiences where I've learned through making mistakes, where I've learned in failure.

01:20:54

And like I mentioned before, working around some incredibly difficult leaders that were verbally abusive in other ways, but specific examples of leadership.

01:21:08

Some of the most rewarding times of my life were leading a platoon in combat, which is around 40 soldiers in a foreign partner force, to leading a company of 131 soldiers and Afghans.

01:21:21

Those were some of the most rewarding experiences because I got to, back to Spurgeon, I really felt like I had the opportunity to empower and mentor leaders to do their job.

01:21:33

And that's one of my passions that I have in my life is to, you know, with my son, with the young men

01:21:39

I work with at the school, and in the young soldiers I serve with, is to give back and serve and mentor them through some of the foundational things that I've learned as a leader.

01:21:51

And for me, those foundations of a leader are being a man of character, being a man that communicates well, not listening and speaking, being confident in who you are in Christ, and then being competent, meaning knowing your people and knowing your profession and knowing

01:22:06

God. I think if you do those three things well, it's a recipe for succeeding in a way where it's not just worldly success, but honoring the

01:22:17

Lord most importantly. Amen. Thank you, Joseph. We have Bobby in Hartsdale, New York, who says,

01:22:25

Forgive me if I missed this, if you've already spoken on this issue, because I am listening late.

01:22:32

But being a Christian in the military, have you ever experienced fellow soldiers, whether they be your own rank, lower rank, or in a position of authority over you, who have viewed

01:22:47

Christianity as being a sign of weakness and making you less fit for duty serving the military?

01:22:57

What immediately comes to mind is a movie that I saw that is a true account of a soldier in World War II called

01:23:05

Hacksaw Ridge, where this particular soldier was a Seventh -day Adventist and a pacifist, but insisted on enlisting in the military as a medic because he wanted to serve his country and also save the lives of those on the battlefield without himself carrying a gun.

01:23:27

He was physically and brutally tormented emotionally as well by his fellow soldiers, but he wound up saving their lives in the long run, many of them from certain death, and this is a true account of history.

01:23:44

I am not saying this to advocate pacifism, but I am just asking about the fact that there may be those in the military who view

01:23:54

Christianity as weak, and I was wondering if you've ever experienced that. Hey, sir, that's a great question, and I obviously won't share names, but yes,

01:24:05

I have experienced that, and I've experienced it on several occasions. I will also tell you that being in my current role working at this school, when

01:24:18

I've told people in my— I'm still in the military, but I'm a reservist. When I go to Washington, D .C.

01:24:25

in my current role and I tell them that I'm a minister working with young men, there's a lot of resounding respect, so I've seen both sides of the pendulum, but in those times of opposition, they've been very difficult, and I've learned from them, and I want to put my arms around and I hope encourage young leaders in the military, young leaders in pastoral ministry, and to get leaders around the globe,

01:24:53

Christian leaders, to talk and share these experiences so that we can mentor this next generation of leaders to lead our nation, as I said earlier, because Christianity's, unfortunately, getting more and more of a clamp put down on it.

01:25:09

God's still on the throne and in control, but we need to be ready and be prepared. Amen.

01:25:15

Amen. Well, when it comes to leading transparently, how important is it to let those that you are seeking to lead know about weaknesses that you possess that you have overcome yourself?

01:25:45

Yes, I think there's a time and place to be transparent in that.

01:25:53

Obviously, I've mentioned this to my soldiers, and maybe I'm wrong, but when we had a soldier held in action, we were at Bagram Air Base.

01:26:04

We were getting ready to do what's called the ramp ceremony. When we were going to carry his remains onto the plane, he was going to be sent home.

01:26:12

I felt like it was necessary to empathize with them and say that I'm hurting, too, but I also felt it was my duty to say, hey, we'll pray for him, pray for his family, but we need to ensure that we finish what we've been tasked to do well to honor his memory.

01:26:31

So I feel like you can do both at the same time. I've seen leaders do that, where they've looked at me in the eye before they sent us out on a dangerous mission and say, hey,

01:26:42

I care about you, I'm going to be praying for you, but then also give me a pat on the back and say, go get him, lead him well.

01:26:50

You know what I mean? I think there's the opportunity to do both. Amen, and I think perhaps you misspoke there a little bit, because since I know you're an evangelical, when you said pray for a deceased soldier,

01:27:05

I'm assuming you meant pray for the surviving family of that soldier, not for the soldier, as Roman Catholics, as far as I'm aware, are the only ones who pray for a deceased person.

01:27:16

Yes, no, absolutely, sir. And can you please tell us about more of how the military is a way to become a learning experience for leadership in areas in other spheres of life?

01:27:40

They may be leadership areas that involve being a husband, being a parent, being a business owner or a president or manager.

01:27:52

They could be leadership areas in the world of athletics, whether they be coaching or whether they even involve an athlete on the field or in the arena as a leader amongst peers and so on.

01:28:11

How has your experience taught you that this is a valuable way to learn leadership in perhaps ways that no other sphere of life would give you that kind of knowledge and experience?

01:28:27

Yeah, for sure. Personally, I've seen the importance of what the military has taught me and how that equated to my first job outside the military was, like I said before,

01:28:43

I worked for an engineering company that would go build power plants at no notice anywhere in the world.

01:28:50

And we could do that in as quickly as around two weeks to if it needed to be something large scale, it would take a few months.

01:28:57

But quickly when I got into the job, I was sent down to Mexico with a team of engineers and a bunch of Mexican nationals and to respond to an earthquake that had destroyed a lot of the electrical infrastructure down in southern

01:29:16

Mexico. And the principles that I learned from the military there of initiative, discipline, encouraging people through hardship, being organized, communicating, all the things that I learned as a soldier, as a leader, were absolutely applicable there.

01:29:34

And in addition, one of the biggest things I think I learned is that as a leader, you can't expect something without actually doing it yourself.

01:29:44

And I think there's examples of Gideon in Judges 7 and 1 Corinthians 11 about leading or John 13, 15

01:29:53

I believe, where Jesus sets the example of washing the disciples' feet. Like you've got to lead by example. And in that context, that power plant, just getting my hands dirty, rolling my sleeves up instead of just I have the title, put my hands on my hips and point to do, that actual hands -on leadership really worked.

01:30:14

And I carried those principles into being a pastor and now working at this boarding school.

01:30:19

Those same principles absolutely apply. And the world is starving for leadership in all sectors.

01:30:27

And I think the military is not the only way, but it's a way of effective leadership. We have an anonymous listener again who asks, are there any reasons over which you would discourage someone from enlisting in the military other than a physical disability that would prevent them?

01:30:50

If they are eager and zealous and enthusiastic to enlist, are there any other qualities or circumstances where you would say,

01:30:59

I really think that you should prayerfully consider other callings in life? Great question.

01:31:09

No, I can't think of any. I would never outright tell somebody, no, they can't join.

01:31:18

I would just make sure if someone is seriously considering it, they clearly understand what they're getting themselves into.

01:31:26

You said it really well earlier, sir, and I know the listener didn't mean it, but it's not a job.

01:31:33

It's a calling. It demands a lot, but there's a lot of blessings that come from it, too, sir.

01:31:41

Great. We have R .J. in White Plains, New York, who says, is there any flaw or sin in not being able to meet the qualifications to be a leader in any realm of life?

01:32:00

Is it a Christian – I'm sorry, I misspoke here.

01:32:06

Is it an honorable Christian status to be a follower as long as those you follow are good and righteous and capable and godly without you yourself requiring the leadership qualities?

01:32:28

I'm a verbal processor, sorry. If I understood the question, is leadership correct if they're good people but they're not leading, if they don't have the same leadership qualities?

01:32:41

No, I think that what the person was asking is that is there anything that should be viewed as a flaw or even a sin if someone does not have leadership qualities?

01:32:54

Well, the only thing that I could think of where it would be a sin is if the person was married and a parent.

01:33:03

They have to learn those skills of leadership, whether they innately possess them or not.

01:33:09

That's a requirement of a spouse and a parent. But outside of that realm, the questioner,

01:33:16

RJ, was simply asking, is it okay to be a follower is what he said. As long as you're not following the wrong person or persons or group or entity or religion or what have you, is it okay to be a follower, not a leader?

01:33:35

I would not push back. But what I would say is at the end of the day,

01:33:42

I think we all are leaders in a sense. We're leading ourselves to an extent.

01:33:49

We've got to have the own internal discipline and initiative. And that does take leading yourself, obviously, and being humble enough to allow

01:33:57

God to be at the forefront. Leader in profession, I've been around plenty of people that are amazing people, but they're perfectly content in more management style or follower style.

01:34:11

And I wouldn't question that. But I would have a little pushback in saying, hey, you do have to have discipline and initiative within yourself and leading yourself well.

01:34:23

Yeah, no one should allow the fact that they are not by providence a leader in any specific area of life.

01:34:33

It should never be taken as a license for laziness, apathy and not pursuing excellence.

01:34:44

Yes. Because all of those things are sins. You know, being a lazy person is a sin.

01:34:53

Being somebody who does a halfway job at whatever task he's been given to perform, or not even a halfway job, just meeting the bare minimum of a standard, that kind of a thing.

01:35:10

That is inexcusable for a Christian who's going to be obedient to God. So, in that sense, they should always be striving for excellence.

01:35:21

Absolutely, sir. And we have to go to our final break right now. And it will be shorter than the middle break that you just experienced before.

01:35:31

If you have a question for Brandon Knox, I would urge you to please submit it immediately because we're rapidly running out of time.

01:35:38

Our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com. chrisarnson at gmail .com. And once again, give us your first name at least, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the

01:35:49

USA. Don't go away. We'll be right back with Brandon Knox and our subject, Leadership Through Suffering, right after these messages from our sponsors.

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Living Christ in Loisville, Pennsylvania featuring me, James White of Alpha Omega Ministries, your keynote speaker.

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Not only will you enjoy a wonderful time of fellowship with your colleagues in ministry over a delicious meal, but you'll also receive dozens of free brand new books donated by Christian publishers all over the

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United States and the United Kingdom personally selected by Chris Arnzen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

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So if you're a pastor, an elder, a deacon, a parachurch leader, or any other man in ministry leadership, please register for the

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Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Free Pastors Luncheon today by calling 631 -291 -7002.

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631 -291 -7002 or by visiting ironsharpensironradio .com.

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ironsharpensironradio .com. This is James White of Alpha Omega Ministries hoping to see you

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Thursday, September 22nd, 11am to 2pm at Church of the Living Christ in Loisville, Pennsylvania for Chris Arnzen's Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Free Pastors Luncheon.

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Have you noticed the gap that exists between the Sunday morning sermon and the Sunday school classroom or the small group study?

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So often we experience great preaching from the pulpit, but when it comes time to study God's Word in those smaller settings, well, let's be honest, it leaves a lot to be desired.

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It seems like it is nearly impossible to find good curriculum out there today that is true to the

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Word of God and is built upon sound doctrine, much less it's hard to find curriculum that will actually teach people how to study the

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Bible. Hi there, my name is Jordan Too and I am the Executive Director of the Baptist Publishing House.

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Our ministry is dedicated to providing local churches with sound Bible study resources.

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Our quarterly curriculum is titled The Baptist Expositor and for good reason.

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We are Baptist and we exegete the scriptures. If you want to have a curriculum that teaches your people how to study the

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Word of God, I invite you to go to our website, download a free study, baptistpublishinghouse .com.

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May God bless you. And I was just thrilled to hear from Jordan Too, whose voice you just heard in that ad,

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Executive Director of baptistpublishinghouse .com, that a pastor in the

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Iron Sherpins Iron Radio listening audience heard the ad, subscribed to the curriculum offered by baptistpublishinghouse .com,

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and since subscribing to that curriculum, four people who were formerly lost visiting that church came to Christ and have been baptized.

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So I am ecstatic to hear such wonderful news from Jordan Too, Executive Director of baptistpublishinghouse .com,

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one of our newest advertisers. Also, another advertiser that you should seriously consider supporting, since their advertising campaign is up for renewal very soon, is

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Ignited by the Word magazine. You hear their ads frequently in this program. And if you could please subscribe to that magazine.

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If you are a parent, a grandparent, an uncle, an aunt, a teacher, whatever realm in life where you have interaction with young folks, this would be an excellent tool for you to have to read to them and have them read this magazine with you.

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Ignitedbytheword .org, ignitedbytheword .org. Please subscribe and tell them that you heard about them.

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From Chris Arnson of Iron Trip and Zion Radio, especially now that their advertising contract is up for renewal.

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We have a question for our guest, Brandon Knox.

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His name is Randy from Fort Benning, Georgia. Randy says, the

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Army has a new holistic health and fitness initiative with a spiritual readiness component targeted at addressing the beliefs, principles, and values of service members.

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How do you feel the H2F initiative and spiritual component can address issues you've seen experienced during your time serving?

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That's a great question for my dear brother, Randy, who's faithfully serving, him and his wife.

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Yeah, so he's talking about the Army's done a great job looking at the soldier holistically, and one of those ways is spiritually.

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And a lot of what that's getting at is the recognition that obviously we're all searching for ultimately as Christians, we know our meeting and purpose comes from God who created us, the need for redemption, forgiveness, and to walk with the

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Lord faithfully serving him and not ourselves. And the military that equates to is that the chaplaincy, if you could pray for our chaplains in the military, they have a tremendous responsibility and our

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Christian leaders to ensure that spiritual needs are met. The Army and military in general is a very diverse spiritual, if you will, religions.

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But from a Christian perspective, what I think we can take away from what the Army's getting at is that the spiritual component, in a lot of ways, links back to when you look at the spiritual component, the physical component, is that we need to be taking care of ourselves before we in turn can take care of others.

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And sometimes, you know, you give and you give. We've got to make sure that we're getting rest, that we're getting physical exercise.

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And you see, I could give you so many scriptures, I know we're short on time, but like 1 Timothy 4 and 1

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Corinthians 9 about disciplining ourselves and making sure we're staying physically in shape, mentally in shape, so that we can effectively lead others.

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I think there's some principles from the Army's holistic approach that certainly apply to us as Christians.

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And I know for me, particularly in mental health battles, the spiritual, obviously, component and the physical component have been huge blessings during those valley seasons.

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Well, thank you, Randy, in Fort Benning, Georgia. Since you are a first -time questioner, please give me your full name and mailing address so that you can receive a free brand -new

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New American Standard Bible, compliments of our sponsors, nasbible .com,

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and also thanks to our sponsors, cvbbs .com,

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Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, who will actually be shipping that Bible out to you should you provide your full name and mailing address.

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Thanks again. Well, I'd like to now make sure that you have an opportunity to give out any contact information that you have that you care to share publicly.

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I know that Cindy in Findlay, Ohio, sent the follow -up email requesting contact information for you so that she can possibly get you in touch with the young man for whom she is praying who is seeking to enlist.

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Of course. Yes, I don't mind giving out my email, sir. Okay. It's B as in boy, knox317 at gmail.

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Well, thank you so much, Brandon Knox, for taking time out of your busy schedule as a chaplain at Riverside Military Academy.

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I want to thank everybody who listened today, and I hope that you all always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater