October 24, 2016 Show with Larry Hale on “From Pushing Death to Preaching Life: Testimony of a Drug Dealer Turned Pastor”

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania it's iron sharpens iron a radio platform on which pastors Christian scholars and theologians Address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage quote we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and Directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour. And we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions. Now here's our host Chris.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania. And the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming. This is Chris Arns and your host of iron sharpens iron wishing you all a happy Monday on this 24th day of October 2016.

I'm delighted to have someone in the studio for the very first time today Pastor Larry Hale,. I met pastor Hale perhaps over a year ago When I had my first annual iron sharpens iron pastors luncheon In Carlisle, it's not the first one that I've had ever as.

Those of you who remember my old show broadcasting from New York may remember I had quite a number of those annual Pastors luncheons, which was actually the brainchild of my late wife going back to the.

Early.

2000s perhaps perhaps even in the late 1990s is when I first began the pastors luncheons and after relocating to Carlisle, Pennsylvania, I launched my first one about a year ago and pastor Larry Hale was in attendance and we struck up a acquaintance, which I'm Counting on becoming a strong friendship.

He was very graciously he very graciously invited me to speak at a Church of God retreat in Newville, Pennsylvania and I found out about his fascinating testimony Which we are going to be discussing today.

From pushing death to preaching life the testimony of a drug dealer turned pastor and It's my honor and privilege to welcome you into the studio for the very first time pastor Larry Hale of the Glenville Church of God in Marysville, Pennsylvania.

Well, thank you Chris. I appreciate you.

Inviting me to be here today and.

Before I even get into your own background which will be actually the main subject of our program today I'd like for you to tell our listeners something about not only the Church of God Denomination that you're in because there are a number of them with that name.

But also the Glenvale Church of God specifically in Marysville, Pennsylvania.

The Churches of God General Conference is based out of Findlay, Ohio with several hundred churches across the nation and throughout some of the mission fields in the.

1040 window. There are only several hundred because they must all be in this area because I see I see a lot of Church of God congregations in this area.

Well, they started in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, okay in the 1800s with John Weinbrenner.

Mm-hmm.

And John Weinbrenner had been a Dutch Reformed pastor and Had been forced out of the pastorate because of his beliefs in the fact that one had to receive The gift of eternal life through Jesus Christ.

And He started preaching then along the banks of the river in Harrisburg.

What denomination what denomination drove him out for teaching that it was the Dutch Reformed. Okay, that's interesting. Mm-hmm. I guess maybe you're using terminology that I'm Defining in a different way and wondering why the Dutch Reformed would have driven him out for that.

Well, here's what happened.

He started hanging out with the Methodists. Mm-hmm. And of course in those days they were known as a shouting Methodists and They were a little radical. As a matter of fact, they had they had anxious benches in his churches after he developed or after he began to Get inside again and get into some of the Bethel's in the area.

They actually had anxious benches where we would just wait for the opportunity to fall on their knees before the Lord and and receive his mercy and grace and.

So basically from the the descriptions I've also received from other Church of God pastors is that it is very much like a Wesleyan Baptist denomination in many respects. Very similar, right. And. So tell us our listeners something specifically about the Glenvale Church of God in Marysville.

The Glenvale Church of God.

Originated back in the mid 1800s with some circuit riders they eventually established a church in our area actually in the location that we're in now and it grew and We had a little white Building down along the road and then the church was in there and they prospered for many years.

A lot of people got saved there now the well and I ended up there just about 11 years ago. The church had gone through some turmoil they were a congregation of about 80 people and The Lord led us there, even though I've got to say we really had no desire to pastor a church.

We were on the road as evangelists and loved what we were doing literally saw thousands of people come to Christ over the years that we were on the road and Had no desire whatsoever To pastor a church, but God called us there.

He he made the calling So distinct that we knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that that's where we needed to be and then he put everything into place to the most minute detail as far as providing for us providing a way for us to Transition into that ministry.

And again, we've been there almost 11 years and tell us about the beautiful.

Campground where I spoke at your invitation on The actual biblical texts for iron sharpens iron. It was very nice to be speaking to a a group at a retreat for those 50 and older and I'm not even going to attempt to pronounce the name of the camp and but I know it's based on an acronym.

Yes, right, and if you could tell us about that it is camp.

Eulogia youth living Jesus way also known as Dublin Gap Center. Dublin Gap Center not only serves the Eastern Regional Conference of the Churches of God But it also serves a lot of other denominations and even has secular groups coming for events up there for retreats.

Great great campground. We had a couple of thousand children there over the summer for camp eulogia and We just see a lot of children get saved there. Amazing wonderful.

Marvelous ministry and it is really a beautiful place if anybody listening wants to have a retreat or a conference of some kind in the Cumberland County area. New Ville is not far from where I'm sitting.

It's about a half hour away and it's a really breathtaking area in a very wooded rural area and. Perhaps if anybody of you would like to contact Pastor Larry Hill you could go to his website Glenvale COG which stands for Glenvale Church of God dot-com and you can ask him about that later.

Glenvale. GLENVALE COG dot-com. Well now I want to get more More of your background before we even get into. So something that we've already gave away to our listeners the fact that this is about The testimony of a drug dealer turned pastor, which is you.

But if you could tell us something about your childhood the religious atmosphere if any of your childhood your upbringing and how you came to unfortunately Dabble and then eventually be earning a earned a living as somebody who is stealing drugs.

Well, I grew up in a Christian environment. Mm-hmm. My parents were both Christians and my father was blind and To earn money to support the family. He actually played drums in a band. Mm-hmm. Was he blind from birth?

Yeah, no, he was blinded at the age of six while playing with some homemade fireworks. Wow, and Yeah, he was blind when I came into the world. Hmm, and Actually, that's something I prayed for for many many years even during those years when I had strayed from my beliefs and Was so involved in drugs and of course dealing drugs and you know, God eventually answered that prayer.

There became technology available that allowed his corneas to be transplanted and When he was around 50 years old, he was able to for the first time in his life.

Drive a car which was a goal for Wow. So he is a sighted person.

He was a sighted person from that time on. Yes. Wow. Praise God for that.

And was your mom sighted or was she also a blind person? My mother was sighted.

She was the major breadwinner for the household. When I was young she was a waitress and then she eventually went to work for the state of, Pennsylvania.

So, uh, what were the The things going on in your life that made you say, you know, this Christian life is not really What I really want to experience right now. And you begin to drift away.

You know, I've got to say I never had that defining moment. Mm-hmm all of my life as Far back as I can remember. I had a desire to be a rock star as I would listen on the radio or watch on television and see these musicians.

And having my father as a musician, I.

Desired to be a drummer like him. I still want to be a rock star. Even though I don't play any musical instrument. I'm just kidding. But.

Oddly enough my father would not allow me to play the drums. He said it was too much equipment to carry. Well, I had nothing but drums and there was an old Reed organ in the house one of the old pump organs and the bellows were out of it.

So I being the ingenious fellow I am Cut some slats to put there to seal that area where the air flows. With just a hole in the middle big enough for a vacuum cleaner. Hmm, and I was able to put the vacuum cleaner in there and there was enough Volume created enough air volume created that I can actually sit and play with that little organ.

And. Then when I was about 13 years old, my mom and dad surprised me with a con caprice Organ, hmm and started lessons in those days.

And.

So what. Where were you when you actually reached a place where? You were dabbling in the dark side where you I mean not all. Those involved in drug dealing actually take those drugs, but perhaps you did.

I'm not sure what was the specific.

Incident in your life. Well years down the road. I Was playing in Johnstown, Pennsylvania. And I don't recall why but I was extremely tired at the time that we were to go on stage and So one of the fellows in the band said to me listen, I've got this little pill.

It's an over-the-counter drug, but it'll give you the energy to get through the night and I took one of those little over-the-counter pills and ended up staying up all night long. Well the next time I felt that I was a little tired.

I took another one eventually. Believe it or not that led to other drugs.

Hmm, and so. What. How did that escalate with. Were you? Take taking cocaine or what were the specific drugs. If you don't mind ask telling our listeners about that.

Well, I cocaine was my drug of choice, but before even Before I even got involved with cocaine. We did a lot of marijuana a lot of alcohol and I think I probably was doing both of those things when somebody introduced me to cocaine and Again cocaine became the drug of my choice.

I just was constantly craving that high from the cocaine and.

When did you have this thought occur to you that hey, I can make a good living selling this stuff.

Well, I had a brother-in-law at that time who was a cocaine dealer hmm, and I was doing so much cocaine that I needed some way to produce a revenue to buy more cocaine and.

I.

Went to him and he said no, I will not do that. I will not allow you to do that. So I went around him. I went to one of the fellows that was buying drugs from him that was selling and got my drugs from his friend.

So he had enough he had enough of a Godly conscience if you will or a Compassion for you or a concern for your life that he realized I do not want. The do you say this was your uncle Brother-in-law brother-in-law.

Yeah, I don't want my brother-in-law to Be involved in the same kind of dangerous and perhaps wicked lifestyle. Well, he had already been to prison a couple of times and.

By the time I got busted. The government of the United States was after him for millions of dollars in back taxes. Hmm, and he eventually went to a federal prison. I Did not and that's a story in itself.

And.

So when you started. You know stealing drugs that it's like start as a very very small thing that escalated into something very large.

Well as far as the cocaine went. Since my brother-in-law was a cocaine dealer and there was always a lot of cocaine around. It didn't start as something small because I had plenty of it available to me.

Hmm, but then when we got to partying with friends and had other groups come in and we partied with them. We just needed more and so it got to the point where I just couldn't get enough from him.

And so this really started fairly large and just continued to escalate. Yes. I mean, could you tell us approximately how much you were making doing this?

Well You know to be honest. I didn't make a lot of money. However, I remember one time having fifty thousand dollars in cash in the house and I was so paranoid that I was going to get busted that I hit it in the bottom of my garbage can and.

Just it was a constant fight with myself because first of all, I knew I shouldn't have been doing what I was doing. Secondly, I enjoyed it so much. But thirdly there was paranoia there and I the paranoia didn't come from the drug.

The paranoia came from the fact that I knew that I shouldn't be doing what I was doing and eventually I would end up paying.

The price for it now other than the money. What were you enjoying about it? You actually enjoy the Taking the risks and everything that might be involved in that kind of a lifestyle. Well, I must say there was.

Certainly a sense of I don't know what terminology to use here that there was a sense of euphoria like Adrenaline rush and a general and Ross. Yes there was that constant. Sense of trying to be smarter than than those who were would be after me if they found out that I was dealing drugs.

There. There was a game involved there, too. Yeah, no doubt about it. And.

Was.

We did you consider yourself a Christian at this point? Were you were you? Looking at yourself as somebody who was in rebellion or were you looking at yourself as somebody who is totally outside of the faith or.

Were you justifying what you were doing? A lot of Christians justify sin for a number of reasons. I.

Actually Asked Christ to be my Savior. When I was about 13 years old I was at a youth for Christ skating party in McKinnicksburg, Pennsylvania, and there was an evangelist there and He was preaching about hell and I didn't want that and so I went forward at that meeting and and frankly for a while I was really on fire for the Lord.

I was reading everything I could I went to to various conferences, but you know eventually the draw of.

This.

Desire for fame Just overcame. I Think I'm just like everybody else, you know at first you're on fire and then things just kind of go away. Hmm, and so eventually the slide went in the other direction and I began to Really want.

The popularity the money that would be involved with stardom all of those things just became more of a draw to me than my relationship with Christ and.

So you.

You did when this was going on in your life. Was there any Sense that you are rebelling against God or was it more that I am doing something illegal and could pay a heavy price.

Legally for this I was more concerned with the government than I was with God. I was one of those people who was rationalizing the things that I was doing and.

So tell us about how. Unfortunately. Well actually fortunately, I shouldn't say unfortunately. Fortunately, although it didn't seem like it was a fortunate thing at the time for you. You got caught and arrested.

Tell us about that. Well, a lot of things were happening at that point.

I was dealing so many drugs at that time that we actually had some fellows coming from Brazil that would bring the drugs in and I would. Get with them an occasion and help them to find some musical equipment that they could take back.

I struck up a friendship with them. I had even more drugs at that time and I was starting to make some money. I had a big-screen TV when they were still very expensive. I had a Cadillac. I had an Audi.

I had a Mercedes. I had all of these material things that the band was getting more and more popular and as we got more and more popular I think we drew more and more attention. Hmm, and we eventually found out that there was a federal grand jury investigation going on into our drug dealing.

Hmm and When you just mentioned the flat-screen TV a lot of our younger listeners Who grew up with flat-screen TVs they might be shocked to know that. Rent the year 2000 when I first had purchased a home in New York and I had the architect Make arrangements so that I would be able to have a flat-screen TV on every wall.

Eventually, he said are you crazy these things cost ten thousand dollars apiece. Minimally. And I said well one day they're gonna go down. And certain. Sure enough they did obviously and this was in the 1980s.

Yeah, very expensive.

Yeah, so I had all of these material possessions. I had the popularity. We actually when I did get busted or when I went to and I'll explain that in a minute when I went to the federal Marshals and gave myself up.

We were at the process at that point of negotiating with Geffen records to sign a contract. Wow, what was the name of the group. The name of the group at that point was the edge. The edge. Yeah, now for many years it was a group called moon and moon in the central Pennsylvania area was voted the most popular band back in those days and we literally prayed for you know crowds of tens of thousands of people.

Wow and.

We're just at a curiosity, where are the former members of edge or moon today?

Most of them are born-again Christians. Wow one of them the fellow who was the lead singer About a week before his death and he died at the age of 48 Had sent me a message on my guestbook telling me that he is so thankful for me and for leading him to a relationship with Lord and.

Then as I said just a couple of weeks later, he was watching television. He got up he went over closed his curtains and fell over dead. Well, it was a stroke or heart attack. It's a heart attack. Hmm.

Wow, probably the result of all the cocaine that we used to do.

Yeah, and.

So.

Tell us about exactly that day when you were arrested and what was going through your mind.

Well again, I had been told by my brother-in-law that there was a grand jury investigation going on. I Found out later. We had gone to buy another car. We had gone to buy a BMW and we were at the car dealership and as we were standing there at the car dealership My brother-in-law that looked at me and he said shh, you know, just put his finger up.

He didn't want me to say anything more and I didn't know what was up. He walked over to the car dealer and lifted the man's shirt and there was a wire tap on him. Wow, well, I knew at that point that I was in trouble.

Hmm so we left there and he retained an attorney and The attorney knowing that I had never been in trouble before suggested that I go to the federal marshals and give myself up. And I did that. Hmm, and I didn't have to as they would say in those days.

I didn't have to narc on anybody because I didn't know a lot about who was dealing the drugs. There was one fellow that I was familiar with and I know that he had already been in trouble.

So.

He was already speaking with his attorney. So I went to the grid the federal Marshals and I gave myself up and it really for me. I had never been handcuffed never was handcuffed. Wow, and it was a most amazing event and I as I look back on it now I can really see God's hand in it.

There were a lot of things going on. First of all for almost 11 years. I had been estranged from my family because they were all Christians and Whenever I was around them that the light of Christ would just shine in that darkness in my life.

And it truly hurt and so I didn't spend much time around my family when this occurred. I Realized that I needed to humble myself and get back to my parents and tell him what was happening. And I'll never forget that day because I told my mom and dad what was going on and they looked at me and said we know.

We read it in the paper. We were just waiting for you to come in. Wow so they were patiently waiting for me to come and do what they felt was right and I did and I mean after 11 years, I was finally I Could go in front of my parents and I could feel comfortable in being there.

Even though I knew there was something ahead of me. That was not going to be good by any means that I was going to have to stand before that federal grand jury. I knew there was going to be a penalty for my sins and I didn't know what they were.

But I felt cleansed at that point and even though I had not gone back to Christ and and asked him for forgiveness. My parents had forgiven me and to me that was very important. Yeah, by the way.

I want to give our listeners our email address if you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own. Our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Please give us your first name your city and state your country of residence if you live outside the USA and obviously during a discussion like this, especially if you're asking a question that relates to something close to home and you're either embarrassed to identify yourself even by first name or you.

Think it's wisest not to reveal your identity. We accept Anonymous questions from our listeners and we will honor that. So Just send us a question to Chris Arnzen at gmail .com and if you can we would love to at least have your first name city and state and country of residence if that's okay and.

So what kind of Incarceration did you experience after this?

Let me go back a little bit before I get there actually. Knowing that something was going to occur. I decided at that point. It was probably best to get out of the band I had went out and tried to find a job and I found a job working through a temp agency.

And I was still still still so full of myself Chris that when I went in to interview with the temp agency I told them where I wanted to work. The woman that I lived with at the time Worked for DuPont and she worked at Berg electronics in Camp Hill.

And so I went to this agency and I said listen I need a job and here's where I want to work. You have a job for me. Call me. And the poor lady in that office looked at me and said That's not the way it works.

I said listen if you got a job for me at Berg electronics I'll take it and I walked out the door. I Drove to my home 15 minutes away. And when I got there, the phone was ringing and the next day I started it.

And so sometimes being proud Doesn't necessarily Immediately give you the the negative consequences that you deserve. I.

Worked there probably For several months and really enjoyed working in there. And apparently I was doing a good job. Someone from the human resources department talked with me and said listen, we're interested in hiring you full-time.

And I said well you need to know something. You need to know that I am in trouble. I was doing drugs. I was dealing drugs. I am going to have to go to court. I don't know what's going to happen and She after a moment looked at me and said, you know, that's okay.

We have a drug rehab program. We'll work with you. The next day I lost my job.

Really so. Was she being dishonest or what was going on there? I have no idea I don't. They didn't tell you why they dismissed you know because it was a temp.

They could dismiss me without right reason and so I was gone the next day. I began to look for other jobs through a temp agency. At that point I had been knocked down a peg or two. So I said just put me where you want me.

They put me in the Harrisburg incinerator plant where they Literally dry out the defecation that comes in there. Wow. And I went there For the first day and I had my little brown bag with my lunch in it until I found out that this dried defecation would eventually Make its way into the air.

That machine that furnace would belch and this dry stuff come all over your skin. And I said, you know what? I'm not even going to open this bag. I'm leaving now.

I.

Didn't make it a full day there. I went then to another job working menial labor for this company and I had a great time there because they were doing the the things for the Pennsylvania turnpike that show that how much you owe and all of that stuff the machines and we were testing them but we would go out at lunchtime and we would take our bow and arrows with us and we'd shoot off the back of The dock and then we'd go to lunch and we'd sit and drink for an hour or two and then we would work our way Back and spend the last hour working.

I.

Loved that job. But I knew that I needed something that was going to be more permanent So that it would look better for me when I stood before the judge before the grand jury I should say and I kept seeing this ad in the newspaper for a part-time clerk part-time Salesperson at specialty bakers in Marysville now specialty bakers.

What that time was known for Ladyfingers? Ladyfingers is a dessert that they alone in this nation made at least a sponge cake at that time and they Delivered all over the United States Canada and Puerto Rico and I kept looking at that going saying that I don't want to do that.

If I go to a place like that, I'm gonna end up getting fat. But every time I opened that newspaper, that's the first thing that hit me and finally I said. And again, I had not reconciled with the Lord.

I said, okay God if that's what you want I'm gonna call them and I called them and they said, okay. Well, here's the deal. We're looking for someone who will be able to work some part-time doing some clerical work and we have a subsidiary company that does fundraising and So we need somebody to sell the fundraising products to the schools and other organizations in the area would you come in for an interview and I went in and They offered me a job and I was so bold again that I said, well listen, you know, that's not enough money.

Here's what I need and I need a company car.

Well, let's pick up our discussion right after the break right where were you left off and. We're gonna be right back after these messages if you'd like to join us on the air. Our email address is again is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Don't go away. We'll be right back with pastor Larry Hale. I'm Chris Arnzen host of iron sharpens iron radio. And here's one of my favorite guests Todd Friel to tell you about a conference.

He and I are going to.

Hello, this is Todd Friel host of wretched radio and a wretched a TV and Occasional guest on Chris's show. I think I think that's what it's called. Hoping that you can join Chris and me at the g3 conference in Atlanta.

My new hometown. It is going to be a bang-up conference called the g3 conference celebrating the 500th anniversary of the Protestant Reformation with Paul Washer Steve Lawson da Carson Vodie. Welcome Conrad and Bayway Phil Johnson James White and a bunch of other people.

We hope to see you there. Learn more at g3conference .com g3conference .com.

Thanks Todd, I think. See you at the iron sharpens iron exhibitors booth. Iron sharpens iron welcomes solid rock remodeling to our family of sponsors. Serving South Central, Pennsylvania Solid rock remodeling is focused on discovering Understanding and exceeding your expectations.

They deliver personalized project solutions with exceptional results. Solid rock remodeling offers a full range of home renovations including kitchen and bath remodeling decks porches.

Windows and doors.

Roof and siding and more. For a clear detailed professional estimate. Call this trustworthy team of problem solvers who provide superior results that stand to the test of time. Call solid rock remodeling at 7 1 7 6 9 7.

1981.

7 1 7 6 9 7 1981 or visit solid rock remodeling calm that solid rock remodeling calm solid rock remodeling Bringing new life to your home.

Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said give yourself unto reading. The man who never reads will never be read. He who never quotes will never be quoted. He will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves that he has no brains of his own.

You need to read. Solid ground Christian books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the Prince of preachers to heart. The mission of solid ground Christian books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to Christians in the present and future and To publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world.

Since its beginning in 2001 Solid ground has been committed to publish God-centered Christ exalting books for all ages. We invite you to go treasure hunting at solid ground books. Calm. That's solid dash ground dash books calm and see what priceless Literary gems from the past or present you can unearth from solid ground.

Solid ground Christian books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of iron sharpens iron radio.

Iron sharpens iron radio is sponsored by Harvey Cedars a year-round Bible conference and retreat center. Nestled on the Jersey Shore Harvey Cedars offers a wide range of accommodations to suit groups up to 400.

For Generations. Christians have enjoyed gathering and growing at Harvey Cedars. Each year thousands of high school and college students come and learn more about God's Word. An additional 9 ,000 come annually to Harvey Cedars as families couples singles men women pastors seniors and missionaries 90 miles from New York City 70 miles from Philly and 95 miles from Wilmington and easily accessible.

Scores of notable Christian groups frequently planned conferences at Harvey Cedars like the Navigators InterVarsity Christian Fellowship Campus Crusade and the Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals. Find Harvey Cedars on Facebook or at hcbible .org.

Hcbible .org.

Call 609 -494 -5689 609 -494 -5689. Harvey Cedars. Where Christ finds people and changes lives. Welcome back. This is Chris Arns. And if you just tuned us in our guest today is Pastor Larry Hale the senior pastor of Glenvale Church of God in Marysville, Pennsylvania and we're finding out about his fast and fascinating testimony of salvation in Christ Jesus after having been a Drug dealer and if you'd like to join us on the air, our email address is Chris Arnson at gmail .com.

Chris Arnson at gmail .com. Before I return to our discussion. The folks at Ligonier ministries want to remind you that they are having their dawn of the Reformation Bible Conference October 28th through the 29th.

That's this weekend in Lancaster, Pennsylvania. Speakers include. Dr. Albert Moller the president of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Kentucky. Stephen Nichols who is the president of Reformation Bible College in the Orlando area, which is the Bible College founded by dr. R. C. Sproul and Ligonier ministries Derek Thomas Who is the senior minister of the historic First Presbyterian Church in Columbia, South Carolina, Carolina?

He's also a prolific writer and He has also in addition to the men. I just mentioned He has been on iron sharpens iron as a guest and last but not least R .C. Sproul himself will be at this conference.