July 22, 2021 Show with William F. Hill on “The Controversial PCA General Assembly: One Conservative PCA Pastor’s Assessment”

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron.

This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing

the church and the world today.

Proverbs, chapter 27, verse 17, tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens

another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to

have a view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with

your own questions.

And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet

Earth, who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Thursday on this

22nd day of July 2021.

I'm always thrilled to have back on the program as a returning guest,

William F. Hill, pastor of Providence Church in Evansville, Indiana,

which is a congregation in the Presbyterian Church in America, and he's also a blogger at

theparchment .net.

Today we are going to be addressing the controversial PCA General Assembly, one

conservative PCA pastor's assessment, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron

Radio, Pastor Bill Hill.

Hey, Chris, thank you.

Thanks for having me on.

It's good to be here.

By the way, what does the F in William F. Hill stand for?

Frank.

Frank, I thought so, and I'm glad because I usually, when I'm spelling it, will say F as in Frank.

So, tell us about Providence Church in Evansville, Indiana, and if I'm not mistaken,

although you've been on this program several times before, I think this may be the first time I'm

interviewing you as the pastor specifically of Providence Church in Evansville, am I not?

Yes, you're correct.

On a

medium size,

it's more in

line with the area that I grew up in.

Upstate New York?

More of a, yeah, I was, I guess, born and raised there.

The website, if you're interested in visiting this church or referring it to a

family member, friend, or loved one in the Evansville, Indiana area, is

ProvidenceChurchEVV, as in victoryvictory .com.

ProvidenceChurchEVV .com.

And tell us about your blog, The Parchment.

Sure, I guess that, I...

He wants to look into the Parchment blog of our guest today.

Bill Hill.

Go to theparchment .net, theparchment .net.

And I know I probably have shared this story with our listeners before when

I've interviewed you, but I cannot help but reflect humorously on my first meeting

with you.

It was at a Banner of Truth conference, probably five years ago, somewhere in that

neighborhood at the Elizabethtown College in Elizabethtown, Pennsylvania.

And I got lost walking around late at night on the campus.

It was pitch black.

I couldn't find my way around.

So I followed the scent of cigar smoke

until I got to Civilization and found a group of Presbyterian pastors

lounging around and having conversation with cigars and pipes.

And I was passing out flyers for my radio show.

And from behind me, I heard a voice, Why don't you interview me?

And that was you.

Yep, I remember that.

And I did indeed interview you not long after that.

I believe our topic was the challenges of pastoring a small congregation, if I'm not mistaken.

It was.

If anybody wants to look up any of my previous interviews with Pastor William F. Hill, also known

as Bill Hill, go to ironsharpensionradio .com and go to the archive and type in

Hill, H -I -L -L, and several of those interviews

will be with Pastor Bill.

I have interviewed other people with that last name, so there'll be other things there as well.

But you will find Pastor Bill Hill's interviews there too.

We all have heard, well, many of us who are Reformed, that is, whether we are

Presbyterian or not.

I happen to be a Reformed Baptist myself, as you know.

But there are many people who were waiting with bated breath to

hear an assessment of the recent PCA

General Assembly.

It was quite controversial.

And why don't you tell us, first of all, what is the PCA General Assembly

and what were the key things being addressed that made it so controversial

at this recent one?

Yeah, sure.

And

so what

were

the

primary

issues.

That

were

a

cause

for

controversy,.

Which had many people wondering, how is this General Assembly going to go?

I know one of them I'll start off with right off the bat, the most probably

important issue, involves homosexuality.

Now, from what I understand, at the very least, there is unanimity amongst

ordained PCA leaders that homosexuality is sin.

I don't believe there are any to the far left as exists in the PCUSA, which

also has a large element of total apostasy in it.

Not everyone in that denomination is.

There is a remnant of Bible -believing, truly regenerate Christians in that

denomination, even in leadership.

I know some pastors in the PCUSA who are evangelical and Bible -believing, but

there is a strong element of apostasy and pro -homosexual

sentiments, which the Apostle Paul condemns just as much as the act,

those who give that hearty approval, and pro -abortion, and you

could go on and on with some of the horrific things being taught by some in the PCUSA.

But from what I understand in the PCA, there is a general understanding, unanimously, that

homosexuality is indeed a very serious, if not damning sin,

if not repented of.

But there has been, tragically, in the PCA and in other

denominations that would be identified as conservative Bible -believing

denominations, there has risen up a

group that would claim that

it is acceptable to be an ordained leader in a church or

denomination while simultaneously having the identity of a homosexual,

as long as that person remains chaste or marries someone of the opposite

gender.

Am I off base here?

Well, that's...

At least publicly.

...an

ordained,

savvy,

strict,

or...

Yeah, and when we come back from the break, you can do that.

Okay.

If anybody would like to join us with a question of your own, our email address

is chrisarnsen at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

And please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Although I have been getting a lot of anonymous questions lately that don't seem to fit the description

of personal and private for some reason, I could readily understand a topic like this

evoking questions from people who want to remain anonymous because of some of

the very controversial issues involved.

You may be in the PCA and strongly support one view or another.

You may either disagree with our guest or you may agree

wholeheartedly with our guest and disagree with your own church on certain issues.

Perhaps you are even somebody struggling with the sin of homosexuality

or perhaps you are one of these folks that we believe is

in very grievous error to think that a true Christian can wear that

damnable behavior as an identity perpetually for the rest of your life

and still be confident you will go to heaven when you pass from

this earth.

Well, whatever the case may be, if you really need to remain anonymous, you can.

But if it's just a general question, again, please give us your first name, city and state, and country of residence.

Don't go away.

We'll be right back with Pastor Bill Hill after these messages.

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The publishers of the New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors.

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Welcome back, this is Chris Arnzen.

If you just tuned us in, our guest today for the entire program is Pastor William F. Hill

of Providence Church in Evansville, Indiana, a congregation in the Presbyterian Church in America,

also known as the PCA, and he's also a blogger at theparchment .net.

We are addressing the controversial PCA General Assembly, one conservative PCA pastor's

assessment.

If you have a question, our email address is chrisarnzen at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E

-N at gmail .com.

Give us your first name at least, city and state of residence, and country of residence.

Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

And you were going to go into some of the details right before we went to the break

on how the PCA addressed these primary areas of

concern in your denomination.

Sure.

Well,

for

the

sake

of

which

we

then

take

up

all of the overtures that were handed down,

confusion out there,

having to do with numbers of the church, whether they wrestle with this particular sin, whether they're

struggling with homosexuality, it has nothing to do with the numbers of the church.

It's not a statement that says we don't want homosexuals to come to our churches.

By all means, we want them to come.

Where else are they going to hear the answer they need to hear?

Qualifications.

A number of people sided the argument that

making homosexual,

we don't want them in our church.

It's just not true.

It's not.

A man is biblically qualified to hold the office of minister, ruling elder, or deacon in the church

who holds and identifies since his sin with the idea of being a Christian at the same

time.

That is the issue.

And so an overture was set up by

to amend our book of church order to restrict or prohibit a man who identifies as

a Christian or such.

Yeah, I'd like you to get into the specifics, but I think clarification is required on something.

Sure.

You said that you want homosexuals to come to the PCA

churches now.

There is a big difference in my opinion, and I think my understanding of the scripture

between homosexuals or heterosexuals involved in

fornication and adultery or thieves and

drunkards, drug addicts coming to a congregation

to be in the presence of worship services, to hear the gospel preached, to hear

the call of repentance.

But there's a difference between that and becoming members of that congregation without

repentance.

Yeah, that's a good qualification.

I probably should have made that very clear.

I have a feeling that this question that I'm going to pose to you will require you to answer

in its fullness when we return from the midway break, because we're rapidly approaching the midway break.

But this whole issue seems to be hinged

on a very important question that is the cause of

much debate in Christianity, even in conservative Bible -believing Christianity, and

even in Reformed Christianity.

Really, the issue is, is there a difference in the level of

severity of sin someone who struggles with

heterosexual desires outside the bonds of marriage and someone who

struggles with homosexual desires?

One can be considered the abuse of

a God -given gift.

Heterosexual desire is obviously a God -given gift

given to those that intend to be married.

Obviously, a part of the reason why people are even approaching the point

of courting and considering marriage and considering

being joined to somebody for the rest of their life is that there is a physical attraction, a gift from God.

But a homosexual attraction and desire is purely

unnatural and some might argue is a sign of someone being turned

over by God himself to a wicked desire.

And then, of course, even in that category, you have differences of opinion.

Well, if somebody was a homosexual actively, and they

become born again, they are given a new heart by Christ, most Christians

agree that it is possible for a stirring up, a flaring

up occasionally of those desires that are unnatural and

damnable.

But there's a difference between that and somebody that is so dominated by

that attraction that they even identify themselves as homosexual or gay

Christians.

That is the most problematic area for me.

And I will have you address that when we come back because I'm probably going to get in trouble with a lot of people.

But to be perfectly honest, I think that I would question

the genuineness of somebody's regeneration if a homosexual

desire was something that dominated their life and thought pattern to the point where they

say, I am a gay Christian.

That is very problematic for me because of the fact that it is unnatural.

It's not just the abuse of a God -given gift, sexual attraction to the opposite sex.

But I'll have you address that when we come back as we have to go to our midway break right now.

And please be patient with us, folks, because this is the longer than normal break that we always have in

the middle of the show because Grace Life Radio 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida requires of us

a longer break in the middle of the show because the FCC requires of them to air public

service announcements and other local things that geographically localize Iron Trip and Zion Radio and all of their

programming to Lake City, Florida.

So please be patient with us.

While they do that, while they air their public service announcements on Grace Life Radio, we simultaneously air our

globally heard commercials.

Please use this time wisely and write down as much of the information as you possibly can for as many of our advertisers as you can

so that you can more frequently and successfully respond to them.

Even if that just means contacting our advertisers to say thank you for sponsoring Iron Trip and Zion Radio.

That will go a long way.

We need our advertisers to exist, folks.

We cannot exist without the funding that comes from our advertisers.

So respond to them as frequently as possible.

And also, of course, send in questions to Bill Hill, chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail

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We'll be right back.

I'm James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries.

My friend Chris Arnson, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, and I are headed down to Atlanta, Georgia once

again for the G3 Conference.

This year's G3 will be held Thursday, September 30th through Saturday, October 2nd on the theme

Christ is Supreme Over All.

I'll be joined by over 20 other speakers and musicians to lead in the worship of God through preaching, teaching, and

singing, including John MacArthur, Phil Johnson, Conrad M. Bayway, Daryl Bernard Harrison, and

Virgil Walker.

For details, visit g3conference .com.

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Chris Arnson and I hope to see you September 30th through October 2nd at G321.

This is James White reminding you that Christ is supreme over all.

When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the New American

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It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio audience have been

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Taking a moment of your day.

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Wow, that's some compliment.

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Before we return to Bill Hill and his assessment of the recent PCA General Assembly

just have a couple of announcements to make.

First of all, thank you all who have been praying for my oldest brother John in a skilled

nursing facility in Texas as he continues to battle cancer,

critical stage emphysema, and inoperable aneurysm and pneumonia.

My brother John has lately been giving evidence that he

is either truly saved or being drawn by God, claiming he is

turning to Christ every day in prayer and making such statements as that that

were not very typical of his vocabulary with me previously.

But please continue to pray and please continue to pray specifically that the Lord

in all truth brings him to a state of regeneration

that he is truly born again and then I am fully aware of that with as much

convincing evidence as a human could possibly receive.

I want to know that when my brother departs from this planet I can have great confidence

and rest fully in the knowledge that he is in eternity with Christ.

So please continue praying for him and also please continue to pray that he is healed physically.

I am amazed at how many times our merciful and gracious sovereign Lord has rescued my

brother from the brink of death and it is no exception

right now how our Lord is continuing to preserve his life

is absolutely astonishing especially since he has already been warned many times if

he were to get pneumonia again he would likely not survive it and that was about three bouts

with pneumonia ago.

So thank you for your prayers.

Also folks, if you love this show and you don't want it to disappear from the airwaves I'm urging you please go

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I want to remind you folks that one of the primary reasons I launched Iron Sharpens Iron Radio

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listeners spanning the globe in our audience.

So perhaps you're listening today and you live in or near evansville indiana.

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I am so thankful that providentially i was aware of three

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So thank you for sending in that request.

Also if you have a question for bill hill on the pca general assembly that just recently took place

chrisarnson at gmail .com is the email address chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Give us your first name at least your city and state and your country of residence.

If you live outside the usa only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal private matter.

And i thank all of you who have been patiently waiting well at least i hope you're patiently waiting to have your questions asked and

answered.

We will get to you momentarily.

But before the break basically bill i was asking for your thoughts on a very

controversial issue.

There seems to be an effort by many christians in order to be compassionate

and loving towards those involved with homosexual desires or

activity to in my opinion go too far and make

those struggles that heterosexuals have identical as if you know

i mean there is hardly a man alive that doesn't have some problem with heterosexual lust.

Therefore if that were a disqualifier for man in the ministry then no man

could possibly be in ministry.

But i am of the opinion that there is a difference because one is natural one is unnatural.

And i think that we should respond to those things differently just as if a man were to

approach one of my elders and say i want to be baptized.

I believe i am a christian but i have ongoing sexual desire for children.

I have ongoing.

I used to be involved in the occult and we were involved and i still have these desires.

I would want my elders to question the veracity the integrity

the genuineness of these folks profession and the reality of their regeneration.

And i think the same goes with homosexuality.

But anyway.

What are your thoughts?

Yeah um it's an important

just

talking

about

attraction for someone of the same sex

unnatural

if

you

do

violence

and we

change

the

parameters

and so let's just take homosexual.

Don't identify with your creation and or

do you not

know that the unrighteous will not inherit

nor adulterers nor men who practice the greedy nor drunkards

nor revilers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of god.

And

such

are

in

christ

and we are no

longer our own

and have been experiencing within the confines but

argued by some

grounding or basis whatsoever.

Amen.

Then

therefore well i'm a christian

confines of that

to the overture that read the language this was modified language

description on monday evening

which in my opinion i was actually happier with the original

to modify the language.

And so this is the language that was passed says

officers in the prosterian church in america must be above reproach in their walk.

And

you sitter if if you'll permit me that term because

of the gospel to ordained officers.

And the language is quite clear that if one identifies

very

little

man

to

be

attracted

to

other man that into lust or

not into

man felt consistently guilt of

adam's first commonly called

original sin.

And here's the

any unnatural

this

thing.

You don't get through it after the day when that is not

some sins in themselves and by reason of several aggravation are more heinous in the sight of god than others.

And when you're talking about a minister of the gospel who publicly identifies what

kind of damage.

Amen.

Because of their position.

In fact this is the fundamental flaw or one of them a multitude of fundamental flaws with roman

catholicism but one of the uh in in regard to a similar

issue one of the fundamental flaws of the roman catholic priesthood

is that they will very eagerly willingly

ordain men into the roman catholic priesthood who identify as homosexuals as

long as they take a vow of chastity.

And we see where that has gotten the roman catholic church.

Because as much as those who are

critics of the scandals in the roman catholic church the sex

scandals as much as they typically will describe it as a

pedophile issue in the majority it's actually priests

having sexual relations with post -pubescent teenage boys.

It's not pedophilia for the most part although that aspect seems to be smothered

with the other crime which even leftists at least in our day and age right now

typically oppose pedophilia.

So they they would rather slam the catholic church with a charge of that than

then basically.

Well i think the issue chris is

that is not the reform right

it

is

his

own

image

new

creation.

We

have

to go

to our

final

break.

It's going to be a lot briefer than the others and we'll get to as many of our questioners as possible.

Don't go away.

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Welcome back.

We have a question from lou in sharpsburg georgia a very

faithful listener and generous financial supporter of iron sharpens iron radio.

He says.

Hello brothers.

You mentioned the revoice conference a moment ago.

Can you shed some light on a conference that was held a few years ago called the living

out conference was the theme similar to revoice and are you and others in the

pca concerned that tim keller took part in it.

Thank you.

And uh pastor bill.

Yeah no i'm not i'm not i'm sorry i'm

not i'm not

familiar with

it.

Well i'm assuming that you are concerned about some other things that tim keller has.

Yes yes but well

perhaps lou we can.

Have a future program with a guest that's familiar with what you over that

which we you are asking.

Thanks again for sending in a question.

Uh we have uh arnie in perry county pennsylvania.

Who says.

Sorry if i missed this but i tuned in late.

What was the count in favor of barring those that

identify as homosexuals from the ministry and what was the count of those that supported

the idea of not only ordaining but maintaining the ordination of such men.

Either vote for the wording that was

now on the floor of the.

No go ahead.

On the floor of the assembly the vote was.

So you're saying that there are at least 400 men who are either

in ministry while identifying as homosexuals or they support that notion

maybe.

Well

i

know

i sound like

i'm

touching

my

bum.

Yeah just like there are those who are vehemently opposed to the murder

of unborn children who may not be in favor of so -called heartbeat

laws because they will say that the sonograms can

be faked.

And.

Manipulated.

So a heartbeat is not detected.

They don't think that's a good enough law.

In other words they think that the right restriction should be any pregnancy regardless of whether a

heartbeat is detected.

So i understand what you're saying.

Um.

We have uh an anonymous listener

who asks why would you want to remain in a denomination that even has such a large

element of those defending homosexual identity in the

pastorate that it had to come to a vote.

Interesting question.

Because uh i actually years ago told a friend of mine

who was in a pc usa congregation that happened to be somewhat evangelical

uh i told her to leave the pc usa because they had a major vote

uh a number of years ago on whether homosexual activity should be

a reason from barring the ordination of a pastor not even just the identity.

Uh and i said if they have to vote on that get out.

But but obviously you've you've viewed this as not such a level of

deprive.

I don't know i don't know that i'd go i don't know that i would go that far.

I've been in the pca since 1998.

Church i moved have

an orthodox presbytery so i've been involved

with an

administer

involved

very

quickly.

Very quickly ronald in eastern suffolk county wants to know if the woke movement was addressed at the

general assembly and is that not a connection between the approval of homosexual identity.

Maybe.

Amen.

And it's just a.

And the website.

And the website for providence church in evansville indiana is providence church e as in edward

v as in victory v as in victory dot com providence church evv dot com and

the blog of pastor bill hill is the parchment dot net.

The parchment dot net.

Thank you so much pastor bill for being such an extraordinary guest as you always are.

Thank you for listening folks.

And i hope you all always remember for the rest of your lives that jesus christ is a far greater savior than

you are.

A sinner.