Interview with Dr. Josh Buice on Leaving the SBC

Hello ladies and gentlemen, my name is Justin Peters.

I hope that you and your family are doing well today.

I want to thank you so very much for joining me for this podcast.

I had the special privilege today of interviewing Josh Bice.

Josh is the pastor of Praise Mill Baptist Church in Douglasville, Georgia, which is

northwest of the Atlanta area and I'm interviewing him because a couple of days ago as of

this recording Josh made a lot of news.

And he did so when he made the announcement that he and his fellow elders Have made the decision

for their church Praise Mill to leave the Southern Baptist Convention the Southern Baptist

denomination and they had 100 support from their congregation to do so and

They cited as their reasons for leaving the SBC the liberal drift within the

SBC now when he said that a lot of the SBC elite came out and they

derided this.

No, there's no liberal drift in the SBC.

In fact, if you follow such things on social media, you know that they have been saying that anytime it's brought up.

There's no liberal drift in the SBC.

Well, the fact of the matter is that there is liberal drift in the SBC.

It's very real.

And so I wanted to give Josh this opportunity this platform to just come in and talk about these things they wrote an

article that I will link to down in the description, but sometimes it's good to

hear and see.

See a face and hear a voice and I think that if you'll watch this interview You'll see that he's he's a really nice

guy.

Josh is a nice guy known him for about five years.

Really really good guy.

Tremendous pastor's heart and then that comes through in this interview.

So I hope that you will watch this all the way through and I will say that there is a there's a

bit of technical issue when you When you watch Josh his audio my audio

is fine.

For some reason we did this on zoom.

No offense to zoom.

But for some reason his audio is just about it's just a fraction of a second maybe a tenth of a second or so

off and so it's a little bit annoying, but just Bear with it and the content is

good.

So Thank you very much dear ones for watching this and without any further delay.

Here's Josh Josh thank you so much for joining us, brother.

Good to be with you Justin.

Well, it's an honor Josh most of the folks watching us right now will probably be at least somewhat familiar with

you and the ministry of g3 but for those of for those who are watching who are not tell us a little

bit about yourself and your.

Maybe even a touch on your conversion and your pastorate there at praise mill.

Yeah, thank you, Justin.

Well, I have the privilege of serving praise meal Baptist Church on the west side of Atlanta,

Georgia.

Sort of a unique situation for me and my family because I grew up here in the context of this

local church and after I was saved and since the call to ministry

I was sent out from this church to seminary and then would eventually

Pastor two other churches.

One in Kentucky when I was a seminary student at the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary.

And.

Then I also pastored in Middle, Tennessee.

Prior to being called back here to where my wife and I grew up as children.

We grew up in the context of this church.

We met somewhere in the hallways of this church building.

Well, we remember when we first met and.

Really you remember when you first met her?

Yeah.

No.

Well, we don't actually remember you don't Young as children.

We just grew up in the context of this church and so it just was the fact we were

just children here and so that that's that back story is I think in

extremely important for me because I had the privilege of serving people who served

us as children and and of course now with Emily being here.

I serve as the pastor of my in -laws my parents my grandmother so it's a

it's a unique privilege and then also with with the reality that

You know, I've been a member of three churches in my life.

And I've pastored all three of them because I started here and now I've come circle and I'm back in my home

church setting but all three of those churches have been Southern

Baptist churches.

Now when I came into the life of this church at age seven, my parents had gone through a horrific

Custody battle and there was divorce and broken home broken marriage all of

that and so I was a young confused boy and my grandfather had taken me to church when I

was About six years of age and I made a profession of faith in Christ.

I came into Praise Mill Baptist Church when I was seven they counseled with me regarding membership.

I told them that I had quote -unquote asked Jesus into my heart and they would eventually

baptize me at about age seven and So it would not be until I was 25

as a member of this church engaged in various different Ministry endeavors in the

context of Praise Mill that I was converted after graduating college and working in

Atlanta, Georgia, I was listening to a sermon on the internet when the Lord saved me and so at

that point my life radically changed and had a hunger for preaching a hunger

for teaching and evangelizing and would go and preach and teach in

Jails and nursing homes and various other places and then would eventually end up

resigning from my job and moving away to pursue formal training for ministry.

Wow, praise the Lord praise the Lord.

I've known you for about five years or so, I guess but I've never really heard that detail of your testimony.

And I rejoice in that I think so I wrote a book on that very subject about how so

many kids, you know I was the same way I was.

I was baptized when I was seven years old in the Southern Baptist Church and was not converted until much much

much later well into my adulthood, so.

Anyway, but praise the Lord for that.

So so Josh I guess moving into the the subject matter for our interview today that the

the big news has been that You and the elders there at Praise Mill have led

your church to leave the Southern Baptist Convention.

Um.

Walk us through a little bit of why you're.

Why you felt compelled to make that decision and what has led to that?

Yeah, Justin, that's a great question.

I'm through the years I've had the conviction that to be a part of the Southern Baptist Convention I thought it would

be wise and good for me to be a part of the annual meetings so I've taken

time every summer to go to The annual meeting of the Southern Baptist Convention.

I've gone to state convention meetings I've I've been involved in various different ways in

local associational meetings through the years as well however.

As we've been watching the what I would consider to be the liberal drift of the Southern Baptist

Convention over the last decade or so.

Things have really picked up speed.

In the last, you know three to five years but it's been through that last

decade that I've been sort of watching the trends and listening to the sermons

and reading the books and attending the meetings and sort of watching the direction that things were headed and

through the elected leaders of the SBC from you know, the seminary

level all the way to the national level with regards to the

ERLC and Russell Moore and others we've been able to see a definite

leftward lean and drift of the convention and so this associated

ourselves and negative Designated in years past and just tried to support missions and

various different You know moves you might say from a leadership standpoint regarding

our affiliation with the SBC.

But.

Really back in 2018.

I was a part of that group.

Of course yourself included others that we were noticing these

trends and these problems as it pertains to social justice and we met in Dallas,

Texas to talk about this issue of Social justice and the gospel and then

what came out of that meeting was the statement on social justice in the gospel.

Well when I went into that meeting Justin I was actually Saddened by

the state of affairs you might say but but I was hopeful.

But I had really no idea coming out of that meeting once we published the statement what would

transpire that there would be individuals who would double down the way that they did and Posture

themselves the way they did and really attack us in our intentions.

With the statement on social justice and the gospel and so really what we've seen

is a bright light that's been Shining down upon these individuals that's exposed them.

It's really exposed their motives.

It's exposed their.

Their.

Their agenda in many ways.

We've been calling this a social justice agenda and then we've been critiqued for that right look

at what's happened through the endorsement of critical race theory

and intersectionality.

Keep in mind when we went to that meeting in 2018 The the resolution 9

was not in existence at that point, right?

So coming out of the release of the statement on social justice in the gospel.

Then the leaders of the SPC led the convention to adopt.

Resolution 9 on critical race theory and intersectionality.

Yeah.

Okay, and for those who may not be familiar with it resolution 9 said that

critical race theory can be used as a analytical tool to

help us in in our gospel work.

Yeah, and so for me when I'm seeing that and the elders that I serve with here in the

context of our local church We had once been you know very much happy to be a part of the

Southern Baptist Convention a convention that had stood for biblical inerrancy fought the

war on you know, the the Bible so to speak the battle for the Bible and

You know move through that era of the conservative resurgence.

But now we're watching a convention and leaders That are instead of standing

on the the authority of the Bible if you will they're actually embracing and endorsing

godless ideologies.

Ideologies that are antithetical to the gospel and to the scriptures, right?

So I've been a part of Private meetings and I've been a part of public meetings.

I've been a part of groups that have tried to have Conversations behind closed doors with leaders

and sought to work for change within the convention but finally moving into the

2021 annual meeting in Nashville when I watched the politics

continue and the election of Ed Linton as the president of the convention, you know

became Abundantly clear to me that we were at a point where to continue to be a

part of this group was a violation of my conscience as a leader to

take trusted resources Financially speaking and to put it into the life of the southern

baptist convention at any level whatsoever Was in in many ways a violation of my conscience

and I believe a misuse of those funds.

And so because these leaders are refusing to repent Then we had no other choice

but to disassociate ourselves with the sbc now.

The election of ed linton Was bad enough at the beginning.

I mean he's definitely not complementarian.

He right is with his wife and all sorts of other issues but then after

the election when what's now known as the sermon gate and you've done a really good job of exposing that and

And providing commentary on that.

He was exposed as plagiarizing jd greer sermons well, you would think that

These leaders in the sbc would call for his resignation, but instead They've actually practiced

what we have come to know as the 11th commandment.

A refusal to critique any of the other leaders or entity leaders of the sbc so

instead of critiquing or asking for him to step aside They've actually

embraced him publicly brought him into the seminary circles as an example to

Young men who are preparing for the the ministry in the local church And then

applauded him.

That's exactly what happened with adam greenway at southwestern seminary.

And then of course during the election of ed linton We saw danny aiken taking to twitter to

encourage the messengers to vote for ed linton so again at this

point, it seems like it would be Embarrassing for us to continue to be

associated with the sbc.

We would have to wear a paper sack over our heads to go to the convention.

Yeah.

Indeed josh.

Yeah, I I share those exact same sentiments with you now in full disclosure.

A lot of people think i'm southern baptist.

I'm, not.

I used to be.

Born and reared in a southern baptist church and I got two degrees from southwestern baptist theological seminary.

But i've been out of the denomination now for about 11 years for the same reasons that you're articulating

here.

Um.

Shocking to me as you said that is bad enough that ed linton

Plagiarized voluminous amounts in his sermons, but to be given a platform

At southern baptist seminaries and and ed linton lied Right on the platform in

front of everyone lied and he was applauded and I that is just uh, that is shocking to me.

Yeah, it is shocking to me as well and and as I think about the context where I

serve here, this is.

This is a historic baptist church in georgia.

It's the oldest baptist church in all of douglas county on the west side of atlanta.

Um.

It is it is a church that predates the sbc by Three years and

so i've been asked by members of this church leading up to the vote.

I've been asked By people outside of this congregation.

What are our plans as we think about the future?

And as I think about the reason that the sbc Is really in existence.

It's for a couple of primary things.

One is theological education.

So you have the seminary entities and colleges.

And then of course you have the church planting and mission uh entities or agencies if you

will and so.

For us once we have lost confidence in the educational entities And

the church planting agencies, we would not send members of this church For the most

part to be members of churches that are planted through the sbc.

Normally, we have those elders as elders in this local church.

Right at that point.

It's just a logical conclusion.

It makes no sense to stay Involved or associated with the sbc.

So we had to had to disassociate ourselves for convictional and theological

reasons.

But also it just makes sense at the end of the day as well.

Yeah, indeed indeed.

Uh, josh, you and I talked about this in a on a phone call yesterday um, but

talking about the doctrinal Drift and the liberal drift of the sbc one of the dangers with

the social justice movement.

It's not that.

At least those in our evangelical circles.

They're not outright denying the deity of christ or the virgin birth, I mean,

they're not flat out denying those fundamental doctrines, but.

But they're saying the gospel is about these things plus Social justice and plus, you know all this

other stuff critical race theory and uh, anytime you say the gospel is about

Salvation by grace through faith in jesus plus something.

Whatever follows that plus always gets the attention, right?

Yeah, and then the gospel gets forgotten eventually the

doctrinal slide.

Yeah, it and that's exactly what we're witnessing and you're right to say that is that there is a

doctrinal drift.

And a theological drift and we've seen that and I think really you can trace it back to the

sbc's big tent approach to ministry.

And if they're going to be big tent and always try to be the quote unquote largest

denomination evangelical denomination in the country.

Then what you're going to end up with.

Is you're going to end up with this idea of being a slave to pragmatism because whatever the culture

says you should do then you're going to have to Cave into that you're going to have to hitch your

wagon so to speak to that train.

And so that's extremely dangerous and that's exactly what the sbc has done through the

years.

And you know as it pertains to this idea of adding something to the gospel when you hear people

talk.

And it's like you said They get a lot right, but they get a little bit wrong.

I I think back to spurgeon's definition of discernment when he said, you know, it's not about

Just being able to figure out the you know, what's wrong.

It's being able to discern between what's right and what's almost right, right?

And so we need to always be mindful of that.

Now let me just make something very clear as I As i've led our church and our elders here with

me.

We've walked our church through this process and I I sought to articulate this in the article that I

published I want to be clear that when i'm complaining about the big things that we're

seeing as it pertains to critical race theory intersectionality this doctrinal drift towards

the left I will say that I do believe that there are still really good

believers in the sbc.

Professors missionaries.

They're all sorts of really good churches.

They're still Connected to and associating themselves with the sbc.

But I think in many ways a lot of these people were a part of church settings and

groups and associations that were a part of what we know as the Conservative resurgence and they said well we

won the war on The inerrancy of the bible and then they sort of fell asleep at some

point and they they have been you know.

They've been made aware or or paying attention to what's happening at a national level.

And so they have failed to see that the sbc although Is a champion in many ways of the

inerrancy of the bible.

They have completely lost their way as it pertains to the sufficiency of the bible exactly

Giving themselves over to pragmatism.

They have Have walked off to the left and it's a it's a tragedy.

In fact, you and I were in a meeting at southern seminary and and uh.

Without going to all the details.

I mean it was admitted to us.

That when the 2000 bf and m baptist faith and message came out There was a conscience

decision.

To.

To leave out sufficiency to affirm inerrancy, but leave out sufficiency of scripture.

And and when you leave that out, that's that's this is what you get, right?

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

And you know if the bible isn't sufficient Then you're going to need to look for analytical

tools from the culture which is exactly what they've done in recent years.

And so it's one thing to go back to 2019 and birmingham when the sbc voted and I

was actually in the room when it happened to vote to Affirm and to

embrace and to adopt resolution nine.

On critical race theory and intersectionality.

And I do believe that there was a lot of political posturing And political maneuvering that

was at play to bring the convention to a place of actually adopting that resolution.

But that's a whole nother conversation.

But it's one thing.

To actually make a mistake.

But then after two years because of the break of covid in 2020.

To go into the 2021 convention.

Where we've had a long time to think about this a long time to talk about it to write Articles to

write articles to have conversations.

Right and then to be given opportunities from the floor to officially adopt

language.

That would that would actually make it abundantly clear to the watching world that the southern baptist convention

repudiates critical race theory and intersectionality.

They refused to do it at every juncture.

Yes.

That's a tragedy.

So again.

We we see you know making a mistake is one thing but to continue to affirm and refuse to

admit fault Is is a completely different story.

Exactly, you know, it would be one thing if If the leaders of the sbc were just kind of caught flat -footed

they didn't know what crt was and social justice.

But now that we've had years To examine this thing look at it And consider it and

and yet they still Even even after years of warning they still.

Uh.

Will not take a stand against it and are embracing it.

Um.

I saw an exchange josh.

I want to ask you about this.

So when you made the announcement a couple of days ago as of as of this recording january 6th.

Um.

So this this gentleman, I don't know who he is.

Maybe you do but jt english.

He he responded to your uh, To your to your assertion that there is a liberal

drift in the sbc and he said this he said.

One way to find out if there's a liberal drift he puts that in quotation marks in the sbc.

Ask actual liberals outside the sbc if they identify With the theological

trajectory of the sbc.

This stuff is just nonsense.

And then jd greer Who is the previous president of the sbc?

He responded and he said.

Great point.

I have some liberal dialogue partners, whatever those are and they definitely don't think we are coming their

direction.

So What would what would be your response?

To that jd greer says his liberal dialogue partners They don't think the sbc is drifting leftward.

So What say you?

Yeah, I mean, that's a it's a great question.

Well, I tweeted out I took a screenshot of that by the way, you might not have seen it, but I tweeted out and I said

You know, you can actually take two boats that are adrift at sea.

And they can talk to one another all day long if they're not anchored to the to the floor of the ocean.

Right and and yet, you know.

Until they look down at their compass, they're not going to be able to determine how far off course they really are.

So I was urging them to rethink their positions and to actually make scripture their point of

reference not other liberals.

Exactly.

So that again once again when you walk away from the scriptures you you open the door for

massive theological error.

Absolutely.

Absolutely not.

I don't know if you've had a chance to see the video I did on homosexuality in the sbc but I would I would say for those

who doubt that there's a liberal drift just uh, This is january.

So just six or seven weeks ago Uh, james merritt who is a current sbc

pastor former president of the sbc tweeted out and commended and endorsed

a sermon preached by His son jonathan merritt that we take no.

We take no satisfaction this or pleasure.

Sadly.

We say he is an open homosexual openly.

So.

And james merritt endorsed this sermon From his son and he called it brilliant and

faithful to the gospel.

And uh kind of in the same vein of what we were talking about a second ago.

It's not just that he made a mistake and that's a big mistake.

But when When others criticize this rightly, so he doubled down on it.

He tripled down on it.

And there was no rebuke from any of the sbc presidents.

None of them called him to repent of this.

And so here we have a prominent pastor sbc pastor former president

Endorsing a sermon by an open homosexual.

And I watched the sermon.

There was no gospel in it at all.

Yeah, I mean if you're homosexual, you don't believe the gospel exactly not going to preach it.

And so james merritt has lost his way.

This is a man who was once a towering southern baptist leader in in georgia baptist circles.

And very much closely connected to al moeller and preached one of the the sermons there.

I believe even uh at the installation of moeller as president at southern seminary

and so, uh, once again a massive capitulation.

And then you take that with david platt's church and the recent video that surfaced with.

What one of their leaders that was making statements about you know, the fact that maybe jesus

experienced gender dysphoria.

I mean we have literally Lost our way as southern baptists and

so.

You know, this is the right time and the right move for our local church to disassociate with a group of

leaders that have completely capitulated on massive theological issues.

Absolutely.

I mean you really Have to have your head in the sand to not see a liberal drift.

I mean, it's just it's absolutely undeniable and uh.

Um, i've shared this with you josh and this is just my own opinion and and uh.

Evaluation of things.

But it seems to me, you know, when you when you think of the judgment of god.

We often think of earthquakes fires famines pestilences those, you know dramatic things sodom and gomorrah

firing down from heaven that kind of stuff.

But the but the real judgment of god often is his abandonment

when he gives people over and when when you see a denomination that

prides itself on inerrancy of scripture and yet welcoming female preachers.

In some cases female pastors, but at least female preachers and embracing social justice and

now embracing sermons preached by open homosexuals.

That that's what judgment looks like.

Is it not do you do you agree?

I do agree.

Yeah, I absolutely do.

And you know again like you made the point sometimes, you know judgment is not

Cataclysmic in some sort of a natural way Using the natural laws that god created

but sometimes it's just giving people what they want.

And.

You know, that's quite apparent as it becomes uh, you know evident week after

week with the uh, the the drift of the sbc and the leadership of the sbc.

So it would be my prayer that they would repent.

It would be my prayer that they would actually abandon the 11th commandment.

It would be my prayer that they would actually admit fault and that they would actually

institute a means of you know inner dialogue and You know

cross entity critique of one another.

Which would actually make the sbc more healthy than it would weaken the sbc and

so.

But as many people have suggested We've probably reached a place where the sbc will

not recover.

But there's likely not going to be a second conservative resurgence.

Yeah, because these The leaders in the sbc today that they are the conservative resurgence.

I mean, these are the guys that supposedly want it and uh, you know last year 2021

at the southern baptist convention that was in nashville, you know in the in the

south and um, it was kind of i've referred to it as the As the high water mark

or at least should have been the high water mark for the conservatives to marshal their forces and get there.

And.

And um and Write the ship or at least keep the ship from falling off the cliff or

the falls.

But that didn't happen.

Yeah, I mean I was in the room justin I can tell you that when there were attempts at the

microphone during public debate opportunities To specify

language of critical race theory and intersectionality to Distance ourselves officially from and

to repudiate these godless ideologies.

Yeah, there was applause from the floor when Individuals were

called out of order or called down from the microphones.

And it was quite revealing at that point that we had reached a critical moment in the

history of the southern baptist convention.

Right, right.

Yeah, I just don't see how.

What mechanism would be in place?

And and even if there were some token uh capitulation to theological conservative.

Uh thought it.

It's been said a man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.

Um.

So, I mean this this should be.

The very fact that we're even having these discussions shows you.

How far the sbc has slid?

Um.

Josh, let me ask you this.

There's there's undoubtedly a lot of Southern baptist pastors watching us right now.

And as you rightly said there there are some good Men who are serving as

pastors in southern baptist churches.

I have friends who are good faithful men serving as pastors of southern baptist churches.

A number of them, but there's a lot of men I think probably watching us right now.

And they see the same things you see and I see they agree with you.

Um.

And it's a matter of conscience for them as well.

And their their conscience is being violated by being a part Of the sbc and they know that the right thing to

do is is to leave.

Um.

But their churches aren't Necessarily on board the the the person sitting in the pew.

They don't understand these issues.

I was really I know it's kind of a long question.

I was really surprised to read in your article that you had 100 support From your

congregation to to make this move to to agree with you and the other elders there at praise

meal.

What what would you say to the men out there who are watching us?

They they know the right thing they know what needs to be done, but Their their congregation

Isn't on board or they just don't understand these issues enough to be on board.

What would you say to that man?

How does he?

How did you get a hundred percent support?

I don't think you can get a hundred percent support from your congregation that the earth is round, but you got You got a

hundred percent support.

So how did you do it?

And what would you say to men who were Wondering how to go about doing what you've done.

Yeah, that's a great question justin.

Well, first of all This is not something that we just brought to the floor for a vote

overnight.

So this is something that has been in process for the last three years

as we've been Hearing of this liberal drift.

We've been talking about the capitulation of the sbc.

And so since my engagement With the statement on social justice and the gospel back

in 2018 all the way to present day 2022 i've been

i've been trying to keep the elders as well as the deacons as well as the Members of this church up to

speed with what's happening.

So each year when I would go to the sbc, we will come back and I would give a meeting uh, and a and a

and an overview if you will of um the the happenings of the sbc what's going on

what.

Um.

What's the good and what's the bad?

What's something that we should be concerned about?

And as we continue to watch the the controversy of it of the social justice movement to

continue to increase I sought as a pastor to not Drag that baggage into

the pulpit every single week and I asked the elders of this church to hold me accountable to that so that

every illustration Culturally speaking was not somehow landing in the social justice.

Arena.

Yeah, and so.

But once once we got to a certain point and we finished up our series

through romans.

We determined that it would be necessary to to address the social justice controversy.

So I preached a series on social justice and the gospel.

I held I held meetings here in the life of the church.

Answered questions answered emails.

And just sought to educate the church after the adoption of resolution nine

founders ministries put out a documentary.

By what standard and it was basically just giving an overview of what happened in that whole

debacle.

So we held a meeting here at the church one evening and we watched that once it was released.

And then did a q a for the members of the church to talk and so after watching that they had already

been hearing about the problems that were.

You know increasing and picking up speed in the sbc.

And so after we watched that film When we opened the floor for q a I filled out the

questions and one of the elderly women of the church Who's in her 90s?

Stands up in the back of the room and she says pastor josh it breaks our heart to hear this this evening,

but If it is true, and if it comes to the point where we have to leave the sbc.

It will not be that we left the sbc, but that the sbc left us and when she said

that you could hear amens across the room and and people

agreeing with her statement and it was a very powerful moment and so

we moved beyond that of course through the next couple of years and.

And we've just been trying to be patient with the church and educate them always remembering that the whole church

doesn't have the Capability of attending all of the meetings or going to the annual meetings and

having all the conversations.

They're not in the room with us when we have all these different talks with different leaders and that sort of thing.

So we just wanted to be very careful.

And not to just yank the church in a direction just based upon the knowledge that we had as leaders.

But always being sensitive to the fact that our church had been supportive of the sbc causes for

so long.

That we wanted to be clear and articulate with the rationale to separate.

And so I think honestly it was the work of the elders of this church and the members being patient with one

another.

And seeking to learn is this or is this not really a line of separation?

And so for us we determined that it was.

Yeah, yeah, okay.

All right.

So educate your if you're a pastor educate your folks talk about these things, you know, it's it's not going to be

an overnight Deal, it's going to take some time took some time for you, but and if I could add something

just and I would say that.

One of the big questions that we needed to be able to answer Rightly is you know, how

are we going to continue to cooperate with other churches?

How are we going to be able to engage in mission work and church planting?

And how are we going to still support christian education?

Yeah, and for us we had an answer to that and we do believe that one of the strengths of the sbc through the

years Has been cooperation, you know churches coming together cooperating together.

And you can always do more collectively than one individual church can do all by itself

and so one of the the providential developments in recent days and in

months has been the development and the rise of g3 ministries and the The g3

church network and so we're a part of that network.

Which is not mutually exclusive you don't have to just be a part of the g3 church network and then

separate from all other networks.

So we have people who are part of the sbc and g3 church network.

But for us we were able to give our church an answer and say well cooperation is good.

But.

You know, we predate the sbc by three years.

So we can actually fulfill the great commission and support christian education apart from

the sbc.

Right, but how is that possible?

And so do we have an answer for that?

And for us we we do because we can cooperate with other like -minded churches.

Within the g3 church network.

We have mission agencies and groups that we're connected to like heart cry missionary society

international church planters icp.

So we have other avenues of engagement.

And partners in ministry and then of course with the master's seminary and the master's

university for christian education.

As well as a few other friends that we partner with for theological education.

Right, we had you know.

Substantive answers that we could give to the church.

Yeah.

I'm.

That was going to be my next question actually, so i'm glad you answered that josh and and uh, I know because I

I was born and reared in sbc when you when you're.

When you're born into that when you're reared in that.

That that's your paradigm, right?

I mean you just can't imagine Doing church outside of those parameters when that's

all you've known, but what i've discovered in the last 11 years.

Is that it you you can you you can that god does not need the sbc.

Our church cares about missions.

We support missionaries.

We just don't do it through the cooperative program.

We're not sbc, but you can still do missions and you can send men to to

good Seminaries non -sbc seminaries and so the work of the gospel

goes on.

Um.

And I want to say to you josh and And other like -minded pastors, you know, all of

us in our theological circles.

We would say We have a high view Of the sovereignty of god.

We would say that yeah, we're we know that one day we're going to to give an account to christ for for what

we've done, but I.

But sometimes I wonder how many of us really do believe that.

Um.

Some do.

You do John macarthur does you know, some of these names that we're familiar with it.

But one day josh, you and I we're not going to stand before a denomination.

We're not going to stand before a committee.

I'm not going to have to answer to a committee or denomination whatever denomination that is we're.

We're going to have to stand before christ and um.

So I appreciate your faithfulness and uh commitment To

the truth of god's word and knowing that we've got we have an audience of one, right?

We've got one person that we've got to please.

Yeah.

Amen.

Amen.

And thank you for that kind words, justin.

I feel the same about you brother.

I will say that.

You know leaving the sbc is one thing.

But I don't treat it like exiting Church membership.

I I have church membership on one level and denominational affiliation on a whole different level.

I think a lot of these men who are champions of the sbc almost put affiliation in

the sbc.

At at least the same level as church membership, and I would just reject that.

Absolutely.

Yeah, we need to have a higher view of church membership than we do.

Some sort of denominational affiliation if the denomination goes to the left.

We don't have to.

Exactly.

That's exactly right.

Yeah, it's it's a very freeing thing.

That's been my experience in the last 11 years.

It's a it's a very freeing thing.

Um.

I mean i'm aware of what's going on in the sbc but but uh, but it's very freeing

for me to know that i'm that I I don't I'm, not entrapped by those things anymore.

You know, it doesn't have any bearing on our church or what we do and um gospel work goes on

so.

Yeah.

Well, josh, thank you very much brother for your time and uh for your courage and uh your

Encouragement to other pastors that I know are watching right now uh as we close out.

How can how can people find out more about?

Praise mill, maybe if they live in the northwest atlanta area or uh, g3.

Sure.

Yeah, so praise mill baptist located about 25 miles west of the city of atlanta.

You can find us at praise mill Dot com and then of course, there's g3

ministries.

That's g3 men dot org.

And of course, there's a a ton of information on there as well as uh information about the g3 church

network and biblical worship workshops preaching workshops Conferences and

and all sorts of blog articles.

We just released our first Portuguese article today.

We have a new platform for that and is as well as uh, almost two

new unique articles every day coming out of G3 ministries.

Scott annual our vice president and editor -in -chief is doing a Wonderful job and we have

g3 press just getting started with lots of good resources.

They're about to come available.

So you'll want to find out more information there.

Okay.

All right, josh.

Thank you so much brother.

Blessings to you and to the saints there at praise mill.

Thank you, justin. God bless.

Okay.

Okay, dear ones, thank you so much for watching.

Until our next time together.

May the grace of our lord.

Jesus christ the love of god and the fellowship of his holy spirit be with you all.