December 5, 2016 Show with Lyndon Unger on “Addressing the Dressing: Modesty in the Bible” AND “The New Apostolic Reformation Examined”

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

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Now, here's our host.

Chris good

afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania.

And the rest of humanity Living on the planet earth who are listening via live streaming.

This is Chris Arns in your host of iron sharpens iron.

Wishing you all happy Monday on this fifth day of December 2016 and

I am delighted to have a guest on the program for the very first time that a number of

my Listeners were urging me to interview and

I began to Scratch my head wondering if I should interview as a thoroughgoing

five -point Calvinist whether I should interview a Mennonite.

But it was very interested.

Pleasantly surprised to see how many Reformed people theologically reformed Christians seem

to be blessed and benefited by the writing of my guest Lyndon Unger aka

the Menno Knight.

That's MENNO KNIGHT.

He is a Mennonite pastor and blogger at the cripple gate.

Calm and watch your life and Doctrine closely, which is a another

one of his blogs which could be found at Menno Knight with a K.

Menno KNIGHT.

.wordpress .com.

And today we are discussing two different issues.

We have our guest on when an ogre hunger for the full two hours and the first

hour.

We are addressing the dressing Modesty in the Bible and the second hour.

We are going to discuss the new Apostolic Reformation, but it's my honor and privilege to welcome you

for the very first time to iron sharpens iron.

Lyndon Unger.

It's a pleasure to be with you.

It's a pleasure to have you on the program.

Well, uh, let's give some background to your being a Mennonite

because Obviously just like many other branches of Christendom

you have.

You have varieties of those different branches like not all theologically reformed Christians are

alike.

Not whole not all who identify themselves as Calvinist or Arminian or Wesleyan etc are

cookie cutters of one another.

Tell us.

What is unique about your?

Identity as a Mennonite.

Well

I'm in Western Canada in Vancouver area and up here kind of the denominations that are big in the US

are not big in Canada.

So like Southern Baptists up here are very small.

Don't have a lot of influence at all.

And same thing for the Presbyterian circles, but in the area I mean, it's heavily Mennonite brethren and

the Mennonite brethren would be a denomination of the Mennonites that would be evangelical

and Among the Mennonite brethren in Western Canada.

There's been a huge Revival of reformed theology.

So all of the biggest Mennonite churches in my area and they're

Reformed and complementarian and have become actually strong Bible teaching churches.

Wow.

Something that 25 30 years ago.

Nobody would have expected.

So would that be the same with you personally?

Are you also theologically reformed and Calvinistic?

Oh, definitely.

Oh, yeah, I definitely the five -pointer just like yourself and big fan of James White he's been a

Distant to help in 40.

Yeah, I kind of when I was in Bible college.

Issues.

And I came to by the way, whatever you're doing right now keep doing it because your voice sounds perfect.

But sometimes it fades away for some reason.

Okay, but I'm on my I'm on my phone and I may have my signal might kind of okay.

Because right right then you were perfect.

But anyway, go ahead.

I went to a.

Historically Mennonite Bible College and I just was I grew

up in a church that wasn't really a preaching church.

So when I got to Bible College, I realized I didn't really understand the gospel.

I could repeat it, but I didn't understand it and So sorting through all of that

that led me through a whole bunch of theological changes and That led me to yet.

They become reformed in my faith understanding kind of the election and

predestination and regeneration and Yeah, working through a whole bunch of other issues

now.

What would have been the soteriology of Menno Simons or Menno Simmons?

He would have been somewhat Arminian although

Menno was not.

I mean Mennonites historically theologically are pragmatists and they don't they kind of hold

multiple positions in a way that's somewhat Contradictory, but yet they kind of they try their best

to read the Bible and do what it says.

But Mennonites of course historically have been an agrarian people.

They've not been educated at all.

And so you've had I mean up until Fairly recently.

They haven't really even had a seminary or anything.

And so they they have theologically have been kind of all over the place.

But yeah, Mennon would have been somewhat Somewhat Arminian ish, but yet at other times he would talk about the sovereignty

of God.

You think you're reading a reformer.

And what century did Menno live in?

Well, he was 1500 early 1500 so he would have been a contemporary of Martin Luther, right?

D are you aware of whether or not Luther knew him?

Well the Anabaptists in general weren't terribly loved because of course they.

Well.

Much to my chagrin when I was in school and doing some history realized that when they started out a lot of work.

Yes.

That's one of the reasons why unfortunately, I'm not advocating the fact that Martin Luther did not give them

safe passage.

But.

They they this many of them were anarchists weren't they not.

And and also polygamists and all kinds of strange things.

Oh, yeah, there was there was no shortage of

Theological and so

the Mennonites often were.

I mean they were persecuted people so they moved around a lot.

They went from kind of Holland to Germany they ended up in Prussia in the Ukraine and they

more were just trying to survive and of course it was a.

Logically, we're just totally confused and then there was some leaders who kind of went off the deep end rather quickly

but the Mennonite brethren emerged out of the Mennonite movement.

In December of 1859 a Lutheran evangelist went through southern Russia and brought

the gospel and At that they came out.

They became a very gospel aware and gospel oriented people.

Well, uh, well is going back to my other question.

I am I got.

I.

Got what's the word?

I'm looking for.

I got distracted by somebody walking into my office.

So I hope you didn't answer this.

But did Luther do you know?

Personally ever meet or encounter Menno Simmons.

I.

Don't know okay and.

The the Anabaptists that we know of from history and even today.

They would they would they would hail him as one of their heroes, but I'm assuming you think that many of our

modern -day Anabaptists also known as Mennonites and even

Amish folk they you believe that they have departed from that ancestry in many in many serious

ways.

Yeah.

So one example of that would be kind of Separation from the world and the Amish and the Hutterites and some of those groups have

taken that as the Fidelity to the teaching of now.

Simon.

Then I'll.

Simon said a lot of good things.

He said a lot of bad things.

He said a lot of confusing things.

I don't really.

I mean, I'm definitely not a Mennonite more for me.

It's more kind of like being Jewish where there's a theological aspect, but

there's also a cultural identification than

a theological.

Okay.

Now I believe one of the hallmarks of Your average Mennonite or

Anabaptist is Unlike well like the Baptists they believe in believers only Baptist

but baptism unlike the Baptists they use a fusion or pouring rather than immersion.

Is that the case with you.

And and most.

Yeah, the the Mennonites are actually broken on that.

There's the.

What used to be called the general conference?

Which is now called the Mennonite Conference of Canada and they would do a fusion and the Mennonite brethren are.

Okay, and.

Yeah, then there's also a group called the Dunkard's.

I believe that are triple immersion.

Yeah, there's there's lots of small Mennonite groups that are kind of all over the map on that, too.

Okay, and the temple tell us something about your personal journey.

And the providential things that the Lord brought you into your life.

To bring you to a saving knowledge of him including let us know something about your own religious upbringing if any etc.

Sure, I was born.

I was born.

I went to a church.

I'm from Prince George, British Columbia, which is basically in the middle of BC.

You look at Seattle.

It's both probably about eight eight and a half nine hour drive north of Seattle and If you

in town I went to the Mennonite Church in that town.

Which was the big church in town was a church.

I went to his Westwood Mennonite Brethren Church.

And it was kind of we were in the in the era of Bill Hybels and kind of the seeker driven stuff and our church.

Got into that a bit heard of a lot of people and so it grew very

quickly.

I was involved in music a lot.

I grew up in the church and I was in my church.

I was one of the only drummers so I played and we had two services I played and because of the way it

worked out I actually didn't attend a Sunday service drums in the

morning service and then coffee during the sermon and

Then kind of prepare for the second service and we play the second service and with a sermon and then we'd all go home.

That's why I ended up not hearing any preach.

And I mean I I Grew up in the I mean in the church the Mennonites like to call themselves or at least back then

they like to call themselves.

They like to pride themselves on being simple we just kind of read the Bible do what it says.

We're not kind of highfalutin theologians.

But of course what that means is they just adapt any theology that comes along.

Rather uncritically at times and I knew the

Bible was true.

I knew the Bible was good and I was very pro Bible for a long time.

But when I was in eighth grade Mennonites Mennonites kind of are if you think of your

Independent fundamentalist Baptists you have a kind of the southern u .s Who are notorious for things like judging people on the basis

of skirt length and Bible translation?

Oh, they're not isolated.

They're not isolated in the southern part of the United States.

I knew quite quite a number of my friends even in the heart of New York City are

Toward that end of the spectrum.

And that kind of blind traditionalism that manifests.

Mennonites have that too.

We had that in spades and.

When I was in eighth grade, I brought some non -christian friends to the youth group and we showed up late.

We're like five ten minutes late and one of the youth sponsors told us he took us aside said you guys This is the house of God and if

you're gonna come late, then don't come at all.

And so then we were like, okay.

Well, we're not gonna come.

And.

Then we ended up looking around town for the youth group that had the best -looking girls.

The ladies there so out

of that I kind of got into

the full gospel so like the Assemblies of God in the u .s.

Is that that same.

And so and I was going

to a POC church and the youth group there

and involved there.

And of course, I picked up a lot of charismatic theology.

And so because of that I noticed my church wasn't doing that and of course the Mennonites aren't.

Back then at least they weren't charismatic, but mostly because they were scared if they didn't really understand it.

We didn't really have a response to it.

They just kind of didn't do it because it seemed spooky.

And so for me telling my friends that I went to this church where people spoke in tongues.

Everything

was when I went to Bible College.

I I wanted to go to pursue music and at that time I was involved in a POC church that was near

my Bible College.

And yet I'm studying the Bible.

I started learning things like hermeneutics and learning how to you know Bible interpretation and but in historical

theology and stuff I started realizing there was kind of between how I was

hearing the Bible taught and the theology I was hearing at church and what I was getting at Bible College and then also a discrepancy

between that what I learned growing up.

That really prompted a lot of soul -searching and a lot of kind of study Late -night study on my own just

digging through the gospel and trying to figure out what the gospels and the New Testament trying to figure.

Led to me in my third year of

Bible College after studying for two years and really struggling with various Issues and trying to figure out kind of

in a nutshell trying to figure out how some guy getting nailed to apply my

head.

That was kind of the gospel.

And and how does Jesus somehow how does how why does him getting killed mean anything what does that do

and Really understanding the economy of that and I took two years for me to work through that on my own.

And of course, I went to a Bible College lots of theological traditions there which

meant you've got

you go to

one class get one

answer in the next class the

prophecy and a heretic came

to head up and.

When was it in your journey that you actually discovered these theologically reformed Mennonite brethren?

Well, that would my Bible.

College Time when I got saved would have been what?

1997 and those.

In the early 2000s when the kind of the younger reckless and reformed movement started moving north and.

So.

We had that kind of coming out in the early early 2000s.

The biggest Mennonite Church in Vancouver the biggest Mennonite Brethren Church is a church called Willingdon and

Willingdon is a church of probably 5 ,500.

The pastor there was a guy named John Newfold and he would do he was a big a guy.

He was big into expository preaching.

He would do conferences and bring up John Piper.

Bruce Ware John MacArthur spoke there at one point and he really kind of Introduced those ideas

to that can be conference on the whole and that was kind of in the early days of the Internet to like 2001

2002 and and That kind of took off

and then.

The other big Mennonite Church in the in the areas in my town of Abbotsford, which is one of the suburbs of

Vancouver.

In Abbotsford, there's a church called Northview and Northview the church that's a it's a Mennonite Brethren Church of about 4

,000 and They had a senior pastor who left and they were looking for a long time and they couldn't find the guy.

Which is do and the youth pastor kind of inherited the reigns.

It turned out that the youth pastor there the guy who was actually the college

career pastor with a guy named Jeff Bucknum and he is a Dallas grad a reformed guy and.

But the teacher he has been really strong in bringing

that Theology to the Mennonite Brethren circles and Buckham's been pastor there for

so the reformed resurgence has been a little newer.

Mostly post y2k in time that I was kind of discovering that it was also infiltrating

The churches and I had a lot of friends in Mennonite Brethren churches and other towns were hearing about this.

Some of these big churches were really coming out being reformed and complementarian, too.

So so what in essence would be the difference between a

Theologically reformed You know soteriologically Calvinistic Mennonite Brethren

Church and a reformed Baptist Church.

Are you confessional.

Like for instance many not all but many if not most Reformed

Baptist adhere to the 1689 London Baptist Confession.

Some of them to the Philadelphia Confession, which is nearly identical and then you have some that you know adhere to

the New Hampshire Confession of Faith, but.

Is there a typically a confession adopted or are they non -confessional which actually I don't

believe that really anybody is Non -confessional, but but but if you could comment on that.

Yeah, the Mennonite Brethren tend to be non -confessional just because it's not something that's historically part of their

DNA.

But yet, of course, they have their statement of faith, which is fairly exhaustive and is stolen ideas

from lots of confessions.

So, yeah, they definitely have their own confession, but it's just kind of an internal thing.

They've made and In practice many Mennonites one of the distinctives is pacifism,

but that's starting to change a little bit like the church I grew up in was kind of a

Cart Blanche pacifism that you know, you never fight back.

You never defend yourself.

Militaries wearing a gun is

basic and I grew up in that.

Theology has long since moved past that and some

of the the Mennonite

Brethren historically have basically ignored the entire Old Testament when it comes.

To that subject and in Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ never

told any of the Centurions to to recant Of their

their careers there.

Oh.

Yeah, no, I know and that's I fully agree.

That's I'm not at all current Blanche pacifism I am definitely.

I think Christ gave us some examples for.

Um.

Non, I don't know what you call it.

Non retributive violence, maybe.

No.

Fighting in general for fun is definitely not something that's fitting with someone who professes Christ, but John the Baptist even

told the.

Soldiers to be content with their wages, didn't he?

Yeah.

Sure.

That's what I mean.

Yeah, definitely Christ was.

He was not silent on the issue and he was not anti military or anti law enforcement or even anti

justice.

When it comes to government dispensing justice, I mean Paul talks about Romans 13 and all that, right?

So I'm.

Yeah, I was gonna say so.

They would even be against law enforcement.

Yeah, yeah.

There's some.

I remember growing up when there was some.

There was once a guy who was an RCMP like a Canadian.

Not to police and he came to church in his uniform with his sidearm.

And he was quietly ushered out and asked to kind of come appropriately dressed for church.

Wow.

Yeah now.

Some of the other things.

I know that some Mennonites Have a strict a cappella form

of worship in regard to their singing.

Is that a practice of the Mennonite Brethren or is it different from congregation to congregation?

Now many brethren Generally have embraced

Mennonites actually have been.

I mean, they're fairly Traditionalistic in that they're some of the only churches in the area

that still have choirs for example but they definitely have Modern

worship.

All the big churches have worship pastors and kind of thing.

You know saying whatever I mean a lot of sadly a lot of Hill songs music and a few other things.

But you know Geddes as well and all the kind of contemporary hymns and whatnot.

So they're the strict a cappella.

That's not been a thing.

I don't even remember that being a thing.

I haven't been around that long, but that wasn't a thing in the early 80s and I can and.

Do you know anything about.

I don't know if they exist in Canada or if they're that Big of a group in Canada,

but the Brethren in Christ.

They're they're nicknamed the BIC churches BIC Brethren in Christ.

They are very very Common where I am living now.

I never had heard of them until I moved to Pennsylvania.

But they are an offshoot of the Mennonites, but have adopted a very modern and

contemporary Style of worship.

They're into church growth.

They have some they have some of them have very very large facilities here.

And of course, there are some megachurches in other parts of the country where they would chuckle if I

would call something out here a megachurch, but.

But for a Reformed Baptist if you're if you're over 300 people you're a megachurch.

But do you know anything of them.

Because they seem to be tilting towards the liberal end of the spectrum now I.

I've heard of them, but I'm honestly not familiar enough to really talk intelligently about them now.

Lastly, I have a friend who if you don't know him, you've got to get to know him a Chuck Volo.

I don't know if you know Chuck Volo.

He is a pastor of New Life Community Church in Maryland and

he has a Evangelistic ministry in Kingsville, Maryland,

by the way, he has an evangelistic Ministry to the Amish and he has

been used of God to bring Amish folks to a saving knowledge of

Jesus Christ.

Because he I mean I I was it was a real eye -opener Interviewing Chuck and I have to have him back on

because tragically when he was on my program There was a malfunction and the the

interview was not recorded.

So I have to have him back on so I can have that archived on my website, but it was a real eye -opener

interviewing him and also seeing a documentary called trouble in Amish paradise

about Two Amish folks two Amish men Who became born

-again Christians and were shunned? from the Amish community because I

did not know these certain things the the Amish are very opposed to public

evangelism.

You have to use a German Bible and even more.

More tragic is their gospel is completely a Pelagian or works righteousness.

Gospel, I mean you can certain Amish groups you could Go to hell for wearing the

wrong Suspenders and I'm not even joking.

But that obviously is nothing.

You have no connection or similarity that to that group, but they somehow historically did break away from each

other.

Didn't they?

Okay, well I did.

I do want to give just because Chuck is such a Dear brother in Christ and has got such a

wonderful ministry.

I want to give a plug to his website new life MD for Maryland org new life

MD org for new life Community Church in Kingsville, Maryland where Chuck Volo

is the pastor and.

And.

We are going to be taking your questions after this break.

If you'd like to join us with a question of your own for our guest Lyndon Unger.

My email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris a RN z n at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name your city and state in your country of residence.

If you live outside the USA if You prefer to remain anonymous because perhaps you are

Going to be criticizing the church where you are a member or something like that We will

grant your request to be anonymous.

But if it's just a general question on theology or on the specific subject at hand addressing

the dressing modesty in the Bible Please give us at least your first name city and state in your country of residence

at Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Don't go away.

We will be right back with Lyndon Unger the Mennonite That's KNIG

HT right after these messages.

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If you've just tuned in our guest today is the Mennonite Lyndon Unger.

He is a Mennonite pastor with the Mennonite brethren.

He is a theologically reformed or Calvinistic Mennonite and he is a blogger at the cripple gate

got Dot -com.

That's the cripple gate dot -com and also watch your life and doctrine closely and

that Website is Mennonite.

That's MENNOKNIGHT .WORDPRESS .COM.

Tell us about the cripple gate Lyndon.

What exactly?

Does that name come from?

It's kind of on the

website the Puritan in the Puritan era of London.

There was

Baptist and

Calvinist and

they

and I hope

that our listeners begin visiting that

blog.

It's quite fascinating and in fact.

One of the things we're going to be discussing today is addressing the dressing

modesty in the Bible and.

If you'd like to join us on the air our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Now the the topic at hand obviously modesty involves different things.

Under the sovereign plan of God the American people have just elected a

man to be our next president.

That is not known for modesty, but that would not be because of the way he dresses.

He is not immodest in his dress.

It's in regard to his pride, but.

You are not talking about this issue of modesty today.

You're talking about the way people dress.

Are you not.

Yeah, I

mean

it would

have

been

very uncommon for a woman to walk into a.

Gathered assembly in those days that was scantily clad that there were women

in our culture who regularly attend worship services in Outfits that at one time

people would have thought were scandalous for a prostitute to wear.

In of it I mean I kind of

dug into it.

It's I may turn into a small e -book one day because I ended up being ten posts on the cripple gate which.

Too much to read.

Well I wanted to document stuff and kind of really work through the issue as comprehensively as I could and when it

came to the end of it the whole what we tend to think of modesty is in the Bible's really

and the whole idea of willfully uncover

it's that normally you're covered up by your undergarments and Then

of course even there that kind of stuff is not even on the radar when in the

Bible.

See things like forbidden to have

steps going up to the altar in case you

could.

You're like, wait a minute I'll do

their nakedness.

Well can't exactly see up into the you know underwear

when the so

so

this.

This.

Area of modesty that you're addressing is something that is

equally Something that men and women should be taking heed to now obviously even

in the other end of the spectrum where you're talking about provocative dressing.

Man could be guilty of that, but it's just not as typical for a man to be

walking into a church Wearing provocative clothing.

He may do that in other areas of life or places.

But but it just seems to be such a commonplace thing for women to be.

And not in every church, but in many churches even can very conservative churches you'll have women with

very very short skirts and and you know backless dresses and all kinds of things that and and teenage

girls and.

And obviously this is an important issue, but it's not that the focus of what you wanted to discuss today and

By the way, I don't want to even sound like I'm beating up on our sisters in Christ.

One of the reasons why That particular issue is so important it's because of the

weakness of your brothers.

It's because of our our tendency to be prone towards

sexual weakness to be you know easily Seduced

and so on.

But.

So but as far as this issue of not flaunting wealth

Why is this such a a Negative and disturbing and

dangerous thing in your opinion.

Not talking about that then we're off on what the Bible's talking.

And so when the Bible talks about modesty as far as I've come to

understand that it is talking about the flaunting of wealth and how Destructive that can be in splitting.

Used in one of the blog posts is that you know men and women who have money they can flaunt their wealth very.

I Worked with a woman who made a

lot of money and she had a bad handbag.

That was I think worth about $7 ,000.

She would go to my

church.

But she would go to church and other people went to church with her would see it and they would just they would recognize it.

By it's distinct brand.

It's just stuff like that.

You would talk like

that's wealthy kind of thought she had some

sort of spiritual credibility because she was wealthy.

Like many in the

word -of -faith

movement

would definitely.

Agree they would disagree with your your Intent here, but they

would agree wholeheartedly that that That the

more The more one spends on their clothing

the more one is Reflecting to those around him that God's blessing is upon them.

And and of course that goes that goes hand in hand with the house.

They live in in the car.

They drive and the watches and the jewelry they were.

Yeah, and I remember listening to RC scroll a long time ago and he he kind of I

didn't understand it at the time as much as I do now and he talked about one of the problems we have in the

church is When we you know Have subtle heresies that

sneak in and they fly under the radar because they're not overt.

But one of the example he used was Men who are on the Board of Elders simply because they're rich.

And that idea that yeah sneaks into the church that men who have money.

Why is that all the guys on the Board of Elders and many of the churches you see are the richest guys in the church?

Why is that the fact that they have money doesn't mean anything spiritually about them yet?

There's a subtle Computation.

Yeah, I remember a story that I heard years ago from a man who was talking about the church that

he was raised in and There was a couple that were well -to

-do and the wife was a regular Attender of the

church and a member of the church and and the husband was

hardly ever in the church and she was having a meeting with the

elders and deacons of the church to come up with ways that would entice her husband into joining the

church and The consensus of the elders and deacons were why don't we make

him a deacon?

But by the way, you're Your topic is actually and I'm asking my audience to please forgive me for

bringing up George Carlin.

I don't recommend George Carlin, especially his filthy very

profane humor, but in his younger years, he wasn't always filthy and

we had a lot in common and we both went to Catholic school and I remember him talking about

his days in Catholic school and he said that you know, you had to wear uniforms in Catholic school

because The if everybody dressed the same you would not know which

students were wealthy and which students were poor and he said But the but the girls always

knew how to flaunt how much money their parents made in some way.

They would wear those gold crosses actual size.

So.

So obviously people can get around those rules even with uniforms, but.

But the the you're really talking about people who are taking.

Pride.

I'm not I'm not when I use that phrase taking pride.

You know that people misunderstand what that term means.

I don't mean that you are Unashamed and thankful for something that is a gift from God,

but when you are boastfully proud of something.

They really want to rub it in the faces of those around them so that they will be looked up

to.

From those who perhaps have less money.

That's really what you're driving at here.

Yeah, for sure and that the church's unfortunately will will look upon

them preferentially.

Yeah, and

I think we

all that

board.

He was on the board and he

had been there for a long time and it turned out

that people found out it was utterly Shocked and could

that be he was you know, a great Christian guy.

Yes, and then the question followed up.

Well, how.

What do you mean great Christian guy?

Nobody had any example of any church financially.

Yeah.

We do have some listeners and for some reason none of them were about your subject.

We do have quite a number of listeners though that I've written in questions.

We have Joe in Slovenia and he says

Please ask brother Linden to comment on the passion Bible translation Which

seems to actually be a very bad paraphrase.

I've heard one review that exposed it as an NAR equivalent of the New World

translation a Published by the Jehovah's Witnesses.

It is reported to include many alterations of the biblical text to add and incorporate

NAR False doctrines, what can brother Linden tell us about this now?

I'm realizing what NAR is that's new apostolic reformation Which is the subject of our second

hour.

So I apologize for bringing this up earlier than I should have but if you could comment on that if

you're aware of this NAR Translation.

I.

Am loosely aware of it.

I have to dig into it.

So any.

Make sure I'm giving you any sort of opinion about it.

That's yeah.

Okay, we do have a question that is actually on your topic

Linden and I have to enlarge this.

So if you'll bear with me because the the typeface is so tiny on this email that I

cannot read it.

So in the meantime while I'm doing this if you would like to join our listeners with a question of your own

our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at Gmail .com.

Okay here.

We have a question from Pastor Sterling van der Werker in Greensboro, North Carolina.

Thanks for the great show.

What a refreshing good historic look on the plating of hair in a historical biblical sense.

I've dealt with the same issue as a Christian who sells jewelry.

The reference to pearls in the hair was an expression of wealth in the Near East.

That was sometimes above that of gold.

The rarity of the Persian Gulf.

Pearls Was world -renowned in the first century and the Corinthian temple prostitutes were the

target of Poles chiding for the excessive display of wealth born from the payment for

their services.

And I guess that is just more.

Oh the question is Which of the following two problems would the Mennonite

brother confront first?

Number one excessive display of wealth by a church attendee.

Too much jewelry.

Expensive coats.

Expensive automobiles.

Number two Excessive display of nakedness.

Low -cut dress that exposes too much if there is a first choice why?

Deal with both I mean I My wife is a good Basically resource for this because

she will be the one who will go and talk to someone about this.

I don't tend to get in people's faces about that mostly because the defense has come up when it's

cross -gender and My greater focus or if

you are going to rank one I wouldn't want to but if you are going to rank when you're going to probably rank the nudity because the.

The.

Education and the Consequence of sexual sin in the church is

just greater.

I felt like you want to rate sins but you want to

Stomp sexual immorality out of your church and you want to get

want to be as aggressive against that as you can.

You know doing so in love and not coming against someone unnecessarily

or cruel.

Number

in the church.

This is one of us.

That's one of the things that God I'm very The

will of God your sexual immorality and that each of you know how to control his body.

One

transgresses

one

Christian

and and

the level

of Kind of you know the sternness of the warning.

I would want to nail that down and get rid of that

right and the.

The one flaunting his or her wealth through the way they dress. I Would

think is far more prone to interpretation.

Because Let's face it most of us dress in a way

that in That in nations much more impoverished than our own or even in cities

That are much more impoverished than our own.

We would be dressing in a way that would seem to be flaunting wealth.

Yeah, so there is there is much more room for

Disagreement, I would think and of course that even in some sense comes to play

with Provocative clothing, but I think that there is

much more There's much more reason for Christians to be of

one mind when a woman or a man is Scantily clad is wearing something that

is way too sensual sensual Provocative Seductive etc.

So I would think that there'd be very there'd be a lot less room for argument when it comes to

provocative clothing.

And of course you do as you were saying earlier there are More strict fundamentalists out there.

Who would even say that a woman? Should never have a skirt above

Their ankles or you know, even below the knee is too short if they should never wear sleeveless

Blouses and I even know of one fundamentalist church that disfellowshipped

Another fundamentalist church because the men on one of the softball

teams were wearing shorts.

So, I mean that I mean that is kind of to me absurd, but you know.

Yeah.

But but you know, so they both do obviously have some room for debate, but I think that it would be a lot

more.

You'd be a lot more likely to get a Unanimous sense that a woman or

man is dressing provocatively or sensual.

And before we go to the break a woman using

Oh, oh, I'm sorry I thought this was a different Listener

that usually goes by the alias lamb lamb.

This is a woman Named Ayanna in New York.

And.

She is asking What is brother Lyndon's view on prayer coverings and I'm assuming

that means head coverings for women.

And.

I assume you would agree that because I know pastors even within Reformed Baptist circles who

believe in Head coverings for women during worship services.

I'm assuming you would agree that whatever your personal view is that you should as a woman wear the

covering if you're Attending that service at that particular church or even joining that church.

I.

Okay,

well I Anna I believe you're a first -time questioner on iron sharpens iron.

Ayanna in New York.

So if you could give us your full mailing address your full name and full mailing address, of course

off the air email that to me and We will send you out a free

New American Standard Bible compliments of the publishers of the New American Standard Bible and Also,

it will be sent to you compliments of the Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service CV bbs

.com CV for Cumberland Valley BBS for Bible book service comm.

Who ship out all of the winners in our audience their free Bibles books CDs DVDs?

And all sorts of other things that they win by submitting questions to our guests

and Today we are giving out and every day actually we give out free New American Standard Bibles

to first -time Questioners, I don't know if Ayanna is a first -time

listener.

But she may be a well.

She is a first -time questioner, I believe.

So we look forward to getting that information from you Ayanna and we'll have the Bible shipped out to you very soon God willing

we're going to our second break right now.

And if anybody else would like to join us on the air our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com and we do have a number of other listeners Waiting patiently to have their

questions asked and answered so we should get to you.

When we get back we'll get to as many of you as possible when we get back from the break Chris Arnzen at gmail

.com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Don't go away.

We'll be right back with Lyndon Unger.

Chris Arnzen here, and I can't wait to head down to Atlanta, Georgia, and here's my friend. Dr. James White to tell you why.

Hi.

I'm James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries.

I hope you join me at the g3 conference hosted by Pastor Josh Bice and Praise Mill Baptist Church at

the Georgia International Convention Center in Atlanta January 19th through the 21st in

celebration of the 500th anniversary of the Protestant Reformation.

I'll be joined by Paul Washer Steve Lawson da Carson Vodie Balcom Conrad and Bayway

Phil Johnson Rosaria Butterfield Todd Friel and a host of other speakers who are dedicated to the pillars

of what g3 stands for Gospel grace and glory.

For more details go to g3 conference .com.

That's g3 conference .com.

Thanks, James.

Make sure you greet me at the iron sharpens iron exhibit booth while you're there.

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Hi, I'm pastor Bill Shishko inviting you to tune in to a visit to the pastor's study every

Saturday from 12 noon to 1 p .m on WL ie radio www .w

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the Mennonite and He is the host of the blog the cripple gate .com.

And watch your life and doctrine closely which can be found at Mennonite.

That's me and no knight .wordpress .com.

We are we were discussing Modesty addressing the dressing modesty in the Bible

and we are going to be Transitioning over to our second topic the new apostolic

Reformation examined, but I do want to get to some of our questions.

That came in from the first hour, even though they have nothing at all to do with the topic.

We have a listener in Valley Stream, New York.

This is who I thought Ayanna was before because to my eyes that are going bad.

Ayanna looked like lamb and especially with a small typeface and

Lamb lamb someone who goes by the alias lamb lamb, and I still have not discovered what her real name is.

She asked what is the name of your friend who ministers to the Amish?

Okay, that is Chuck Volo and he spells his name V as in victory u -o -l -o.

And you can Find his website.

And I've already clicked off of it.

So I'll announce that website later.

But I think it's new life MD org if I'm not mistaken new life MD

for Maryland org and Yes, it is.

That's what it is new life MD org is his website.

So lamb lamb you can go to that website.

For Chuck Volo V as in victory u -o -l -o.

We also have let's see we have

Jeff From Clinton Township, Michigan.

I have heard a friend in Ontario who talks about the Mennonite Mafia

in and around his neighborhood.

I thought he was pulling my leg for the longest time until I did a little research and found out the

reality of this group.

Can your guest give a brief history of how these criminals came to use the Mennonite label?

Is this raised to your knowledge is this actually a real phenomenon a real group.

Yep, yeah, it is the Mennonites.

Mennonites when they left the Ukraine in kind of the early 1900s late 1800s.

They settled in a few places.

So they came to.

Some of them came to Canada some in Ontario other ones in Saskatchewan.

Another batch went to Mountain Lake, Minnesota and some other guys went to and

there are some Mennonites who move watching a fair amount who move in between Paraguay and

Canada and.

There is it's not so much the Mennonite Mafia.

But there is an organized crime syndicate that is in the Mennonite circle in the old order.

Which would be the Amish style Mennonites?

No, I'm I'm not old order.

I'd be married brethren and we kind of use electricity and cars and internet all that kind of stuff and are.

Kind of very different than the old order guys, but there's old order guys who?

Yeah, we're kind of in the media for actually running drugs in church pews and stuff like that.

So I assume if the Mennonite Mafia wants to give you a warning you not only will wake up with

a horse's head in your Bed, but perhaps the wheel to your buggy.

Well.

Yeah, you hear something new every day.

Well, thanks Jeff for contributing to the program with that Question.

All right.

Now we're gonna.

We're going to transition over to the new epistolic Reformation and.

First of all, tell us about what this group is and the origins of it.

Reformation I mean I'd have to take some time to really back this up, but my claim

Would be that the new epistolic Reformation is in reality just the

rebranding of old Word faith prosperity

gospel Pentecost.

And so the new the new epistolic Reformation where that term comes from is in in the 90s.

Well, actually starting in the 70s Peter Wagner and John Wimber worked together at Fuller and they ran the

evangelism and they worked together

for a long time and Wimber was the theologian and of course, we know him from the

Denomination and Wimber was the theologian there and then Wagner is more of a growth

guy he does a lot of traveling and monitoring and in the 90s

Wagner noticed that there was kind of a

Strain

from John Wimber.

Wimber kind of gave him the theology that said every time God does something new He provides what they

called new wineskins.

Now new wineskins is kind of charismatic parlings or new

theology.

God is doing something new he historically done and Modifies it in some

way and they call it a new wineskin.

That's just kind of one of their buzzwords.

And so Wimber told Wagner to look out for new wineskins and basically the main way of recognizing

his numerical growth.

They they call that blessing.

So when Wagner was traveling throughout around the world and looking for churches that were growing.

He noticed that a lot of churches internationally and in the US that are growing very quickly

were Pentecostal churches breaking away from

Pentecostalism.

Now when I say that it's more kind of in the late

90s Hillsong Church in Sydney, Australia Hillsong

was a assemblies of God Church and Hillsong broke away from the assemblies of God and the same thing for

Bethel Church in Redding, California they were up away from the assemblies of God and

churches became independent and Wagner noticed these churches were growing and becoming

influential and so Wagner was trying to think of a Theological or not a theological but I

just to reference the new apostolic Reformation.

So according to Wagner these guys are different to the Pentecostalism and he

named Nine differences.

The differences are a new name for this movement.

They have a new authority structure.

And so what that meant was there the churches are no longer really denominational.

But are more independent and there's not a denominational relationship.

They had new or

it's kind

of

back in

the 90s is

when you

stuff

like that

and in their

guy up

front

We've had

a lot more

cause they called

that concert prayer

one that I really

Tithing

and

wedding

is

beneficial,

but

not

only to

your

measure

is prophecy.

Wagner open Wagner

Leadership Institute as

you recognize that kind of the traditional seminary is not so clear

meet.

And so he started the Wagner Leadership Institute where he could just train whoever he wanted and make his own curriculum and do whatever you want and he

also started a and then

in 2001 to think that really

cousin one that we established

those in

the church and To kick off what begin

to high gear of the new apostolic Reformation and it's that same year 2001.

Where long time

where he was

doing

narcotics?

He was doing intro are not intravenous drugs, but doing

getting massages from homosexual prostitutes and hidden.

He left and that was a

Wagner has kind of he's died recently.

Wimber

is

also

gone, but the people

that

Baker on the back

and kind of

very.

We do have another first -time listener.

To iron sharpens iron or should I say first -time questioner?

Caleb in Morton, Illinois, the church I go to is solidly Christian with expository

preaching and a very high regard for Scripture.

We do sing songs that are a hill song by Hill song and some others in the NAR

movement but the songs we sing are generally on the theologically are On the

theologically deeper end of their songs and aren't generally the mindless repetitive songs.

Would you recommend I bring it up to the elders or let it go as long as they don't use the more problematic songs.

Yes, Caleb in Morton, Illinois.

I take the tack with Hill songs that the danger in Hill songs is not the music but the

teaching.

The music serves as the appetizer and the teaching is the main course and the teaching is what is the

problem if your church is singing Hill songs music I mean There's no such

thing as spiritual cooties where somehow and then all of a sudden

your church somehow something happens That's negative in your church saying or

where you're you know what's in your pastor stops preaching the Bible just because there's

becomes an issue where people are either pursuing Hill songs or Looking into where these

songs come from.

If anyone's bothered by it, yeah, I'd probably stop.

But I mean Hill songs, they're worship stuff.

A lot of those guys are victims of the bad leadership.

I mean, I have lots of friends who in charismatic circles who are even in what would be NAR churches.

When I talk to them about it, they're completely stunned.

I want to even show them quotes in the books from some of these authors and they just can't believe it but

Isn't really the problem.

It's the music at best is shallow at worst is just nonsense.

Is really what the problem is.

So if someone listens to the music and then goes and investigates it find Hillsong starts reading Brian Hughes and stuff

Listening to his sermons.

I would that's not happening kind of a song that people

leave let that slide because it's really

Damage there is minimal and hypothetical, but that's that's just me.

That's my take on it.

Yeah that for much the same reason.

But he took a different He had a different conclusion from what you drew.

Our our friend.

Dr. James are white of Alpha Omega Ministries.

He used to love listening to Phillips Craig and Dean and then he found out that they were one

one this Pentecostals and And he has since stopped listening to them and does

not Encourage anyone else to listen to them either.

In fact, he dissuades people away from listening to them and

Because of the fact that as you mentioned There can be a domino effect when you

when people become your music heroes they can eventually become your

theological heroes or mentors.

And.

So therefore I guess obviously though that that is an individual thing between you know, your conscience and God.

As far as whether you're gonna listen to that or not.

But by the way Caleb in Morton, Illinois, please.

Give us your full Mailing address because since you are a first -time questioner, you're also getting a free

New American Standard Bible Compliments of the publishers of the NASB and also

compliments of Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service.

Will be shipping that out to you.

That's CV bbs .com.

Look for that on the label CV bbs .com and Hopefully that will get to you in

about a week or so.

Thanks a lot for joining us on today's program.

We're going to our final break right now.

So join us on the air with a question of your own.

We still have a couple of people waiting to have their questions asked and answered.

So we'll get to you as soon as we can.

But we'll be right back. God willing after these messages, so don't go away.

Chris Arnzen here, and I can't wait to head down to Atlanta, Georgia.

And here's my friend.

Dr. James white to tell you why?

Hi, I'm James white of Alpha Omega ministries.

I hope you join me at the g3 conference hosted by pastor Josh Bison Praise Mill Baptist Church at

the Georgia International Convention Center in Atlanta January 19th through the 21st in

celebration of the 500th anniversary of the Protestant Reformation.

I'll be joined by Paul Washer Steve Lawson da Carson Vodie Balcom Conrad and Bayway

Phil Johnson Rosaria Butterfield Todd Friel and a host of other speakers who are dedicated to the pillars

Of what g3 stands for gospel grace and glory.

For more details go to g3 conference .com.

That's g3 conference .com.

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Hope you call in with questions as well every Saturday 12 noon Eastern

to 1 p .m. Eastern and Unlike iron sharpens iron right now.

Anyway, he actually takes live phone calls from listeners rather than email so I hope you call in

with your questions for pastor bill and We are back with our final

25 minutes of iron sharpens iron.

We are talking about the new Apostolic Reformation and That is a dangerous

group according to our guests and according to many people who my highly respect and If you'd like to join us on the

air, our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

And we do have RJ in White Plains, New York.

Who said it who asks is there a direct link between Hill song and the new Apostolic

Reformation?

I understand that Hill song Despite their objections to the claim

are really soft on the sin of homosexuality a lot

softer than they would pretend to be.

Is this true.

And Also, are they connected to the new Apostolic Reformation?

Governing body and there's no real there's lots of quote -unquote apostolic networks.

But each one is independent and under a specific guy so

systematic or many kind of Structural connections to anyone but they tend to be all speaking together at the same

conferences endorse one another's books.

Brian Houston definitely walks in the circles of many of the guys who would be in the new Apostolic Reformation and He

would definitely be I would lump him in as part of that.

Theologically, Brian Houston is a blazing prosperity gospel guy from

a while ago called You need more money and he in no uncertain terms

Basically draws a connection that if you are a Christian and you are in God's will you will have an

abundance of financial With riches and so he doesn't beat around the bush in the slightest with that.

As for Hillsong's and homosexuality There's a lot of talk about that

and that the specific issue is actually Hillsong's in New York, which is under Carl Lentz.

Nailing down Brian Houston on that stuff at Hillsong's and that stuff is Hillsong New York is a

separate and anytime one of the things with the world one of the

things with the new Apostolic Reformation is because they are not centralized and they do not

Connection or structural connection anytime anyone in the entire movement does anything or says anything crazy?

Everyone says well, it's just not me.

So it doesn't matter what he says or what?

You know, I'm only responsible for what I say and Houston so far any big

scandal with homosexuality himself.

Although very very interesting is that Brian Houston's father Frank Houston?

Left and Brian Houston inherited the church from his father Frank

when Frank it came up that Frank was a homosexual pedophile so he took

advantage of several of the youth pastors that had worked there and Brian Houston just a few years ago went

through court for months because there was tons of charges that came against him for that.

And so because of Frank's for

decades.

But not be suspicious at all if Brian Houston was kind of soft on that subject

mostly because he's Even that from the other side and it would be easy for him

for all the pain his father Endured that he watched when his father was condemned by everyone.

For what he did.

Now when you say his father was an open homosexual you mean he he was an unashamed public

practicing no.

He wasn't he wasn't an unashamed public.

He was private and hidden, but it came became open in the early 2000s.

And so if Brian was around someone who was an open homosexual a lot of sympathy

towards that.

Well as I can tell you is that I know of a Christian Apologetics

ministry in Australia that wants me to conduct an

interview specifically on That issue because they believe that the Hillsong group is

clearly soft Doctrinally or actually

perhaps even more In in regard to disciplinary matters, they're soft on

homosexuality.

I'm not saying that they are in that the Australian apologetics group that I'm speaking of

saying is saying Hillsong endorses homosexuality, but I'm saying that they seem to be Soft

according to them in regard to disciplining it as a as a wicked damnable sin.

And Frank Houston when that all came out Frank was not disciplined.

He just disappeared.

So when that all came out that he had been living a double life, there was no public discipline.

There was no nothing said Frank just got a golden handshake.

Left the church was kind of made a chant talked about it because of course

if they knew that there was already threats of criminal charges and whatnot and Brian has already gone through court

under that and I don't know what The the court findings were on that because I think those records are sealed or I haven't been able to

find them online.

And.

Thank you very much for contributing that question.

We also have CJ in Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York.

Who says are or is the?

New.

Apostolic Reformation Trinitarian.

I Know of a congregation called the New Apostolic Church Nearby where I

live that was a oneness Pentecostal Congregation and I'm

wondering if it's in any way affiliated.

I haven't seen that as a trend in any of the New Apostolic Churches.

They don't call themselves New Apostolic.

Okay, that would be that would be kind of coincidental if they if there was a church that was called that.

Then but the NAR churches New Apostolic churches tend to be Trinitarian but they one

of the problems with them again is that their adhesion of churches and like

TV Jake's would be definitely in traveling in the same circles as some of the guys in the NAR and

He is definitely I mean the

guys in the New Apostolic Reformation.

They don't have any sort of doctrinal feet to stand on to say anything negative about pretty much anything at

all.

But for them, it's it's a freedom because they don't have I mean a lot of these guys kind of

backgrounds where.

Condemning Todd Bentley.

It was not terribly widely circulant, but Todd Bentley was condemned by his own denomination.

He's why these guys have I believe they've gotten out from denominations.

They want without any sort of fear of reprisal or any sort of feel like.

Yeah, whether or not the Trinity is a core issue.

I don't believe it is most of the

guys and the Trinity if their life depended on it, though.

They're not really concerned about stuff like that.

Yeah, and unfortunately, there are a lot of Evangelicals who are very

soft on the Trinity and who welcome into fellowship.

One is Pentecostals anti -trinitarians.

Yeah, and and TD Jake's Seems to have an open

door to a lot of Professing Trinitarian people

and congregations and ministries and so on.

And.

Yeah, so it's I.

Don't I don't understand why these Professing Trinitarians don't have red

lights flashing in their heads warning lights.

Because.

Typically, it's interesting and I can't speak for TD Jake's but typically one this

Pentecostals.

They take it very seriously.

They think that if you believe in the Trinity, you are a polytheist.

You are worshiping three gods and you're a heretic and you will go to hell if you continue

Worshipping this so -called Trinitarian God.

Yeah.

So on your oh good.

No, no, you got.

I mean remember the elephant room back.

You know a couple years ago with James McDonald and Mark Driscoll.

Yes.

How TD Jake's.

TD Jake's walked into that room and ate those guys for breakfast.

They had no idea how to respond to all of his talk.

And even even his aftermath from the follow -up when he had guys who are evangelical theologians kind of somewhat Defending TD

Jake's.

You realize you guys may understand theology in an academic sense, but they have never encountered a one this Pentecostal.

Yeah, and there is still seems to be confusion and

Disagreement over whether or not TD Jake's is still a modalist and I think that's

because he very cleverly Will refuse to specifically claim

clearly That he is a oneness Pentecostal and

He will use language with a different dictionary and people will

People will assume that he is Trinitarian.

Yeah, Jake's is many things but stupid is not one of them.

He's very and he knows how to say.

One phrase and have it mean two things to do to two different groups of people.

So that he can you know, if someone challenges and says what do you say?

What do you mean?

Well, I meant this.

They're put at ease, but the opposite side says well, hang on a second.

What do you mean?

Oh, no, I meant this.

Very good at that.

Yes.

See that's that's one of the reasons why I Disagree with some of my

brethren who I love dearly.

Who are opposed to labels and opposed to using any extra biblical language is

because sometimes that gives the opportunity for a

false teacher to hide behind a smokescreen.

Because TD Jake's is basically saying I'm not going to be forced to use an unbiblical term like the Trinity and

Many Christians would say well who could fault a Bible believing Christian for that?

He doesn't want to use an unbiblical term, but the thing is that enables him to hide behind a smokescreen

in that.

That he may be in fact Denying what the Bible teaches about the Trinity and

but by and hiding behind the fact that he doesn't want to use a Non

-biblical term for it.

Right on the same days I want to give him a pass for that.

Would probably have you tarred and feathered if you ever thought of getting rid of potlucks because potluck doesn't appear in the New Testament.

What might say that again?

Well, I said like the kind of the same mentality that says well, we don't want to judge TD Jake's, you know, he's good for

not having.

You want to stick to biblical terms and that's okay.

That same group of people often would have you tarred and feathered for daring to challenge The church stop having

potlucks just because potlucks aren't mentioned in the Bible.

Yeah, well yeah, and then another thing is that as I've mentioned to some of my

Friends and I understand the concept of Saying that you don't want to

use the term Calvinist because you're because in their minds they are.

Somebody who is using that label is attributing Calvin for the teachings rather than the Bible and giving

undue honor way too Lofty and honor to a human being

who's a fellow sinner rather than to Christ and that kind of thing.

But when you just say I want to stick to strictly being called a Bible believing Christian.

Well, the problem is many cults do the same thing.

You know, so, you know, what does that mean?

I mean, yeah, you believe in the Bible, but so Herbert

W Armstrong and you know, there are a lot of people who say that they're just going by the Bible alone.

Harold camping who passed away not long ago that was his big that

was his big chant was that he only used the Bible alone and And that kind of thing.

So anyway, I digress what are the What are the what is a

summary that you could give us now of reasons that Christians should be alarmed and

Stay clear of The New Apostolic Reformation not that you shouldn't Still

remain friends with people involved so that you can you know educate them about the dangers and

heresies.

But as far as being seduced into the movement yourself, what are the what's a summary of what you'd like to give today?

that should really Give Christians every reason to stay clear of them.

Reformation is Kind of monolithic movement, or it's not a

you know Denominationally seen movement.

There's a lot of variety and there is a lot of good people that even attended in our churches.

I have lots of friends who are in our churches who are deceived.

They're confused and they have horrible leaders over them who just lie to them.

And so I don't want people to think that I'm I hate them or that I'm angry about this or something but the

Problems with the New Apostolic Reformation number one is they get the gospel wrong.

And so there are people in New Apostolic churches who get saved yes.

But they do that in spite of what is taught not because of it.

And so then these guys tend to have the gospel wrong.

They tend to focus on The gospel being about or it's involves prosperity.

That's a big thing.

There's a word faith theology that comes into it where faith theology and prosperity theology are.

Really there the Bale worship of the Old Testament just gussied up with Christian terminology

in the end of the day God is served as a tool to give you what you want and you learn the right techniques to manipulate God

to either give you money influence Power fame, whatever it is you work you require.

There's universal law.

God is subject to that law and you can manipulate that law using words and faith.

That is not Christianity.

Not the gospel.

Not everyone in the NAR teaches that overtly.

But it is prevalent and the guys who reject that for some reasons.

They give the NAR churches the guys who will say they reject prosperity theology.

Still end up sharing stages with blatant prosperity preachers and

there's second problem these guys have abandoned any sort of a second

problem with the NAR is that Terminology goes out the window.

Bible interpretation goes out the window and you have because they believe in Modern revelation and you're hearing the

voice of God that basic comes out in two ways.

The Bible means what God tells you it means has nothing to do with the words in the Bible as Bill

Johnson from Bethel Church.

We John the view you eat Joel those

people have been right and what do you scripture you look at what they're saying?

You look at one in the world.

Are you guys literate?

Are they illiterate?

And I

think

that

we

somehow lost our guest are you there brother I.

Thought that I heard a click there.

So I'm hoping that our guest Lyndon Unger Calls back.

We only have a few minutes left but hopefully and that is I I'm assuming

that is our guest Lyndon Unger and Is that you.

But is that you brother Lyndon.

Yes, it did.

I'd miss the last few cents of what I was saying.

Well, why don't you just repeat this the last sentence?

If you're in a new apostolic church, you will be in a position where you will be Perpetually immature

because the people around you are constantly Shielding you from the scripture and teaching you to

systematically misinterpret it.

That is Very very bad for your spiritual life when you're surrounded by people who

mishandle the scriptures and of course Theologically, they will be giving you a bunch of air.

And so don't that was with the NAR.

It's abusive.

I mean the whole idea of King and you know The

reverse touch not anyone disagrees and

feathered and ran out of town the signs and wonders there.

They focus on the new new moves of God new manifestations new signs new wonders again.

That teaches you that.

The mark of Christian spirituality is falling on the floor barking like a dog.

Now this stuff is different.

I mean there's different manifestation taught that's the mark of maturity when people have that happen to them and we

people can do that.

And you can make you know, there's guys who have oil that apparently comes out of their palms.

They have like this oil stigma and there's guys

Evangelists and speakers who really the only reason they're on stage is because they can Get

from the trees when you read the scriptures you understand it you submit

to properly and you're

submitting them from

revival to revival Constantly somehow

in their life and six

hours to go to

a worship service

and then come home

their way to like well.

Where were you?

I went to a worship service.

Also, they have a big fight.

Well, the problem is not that the guy needs more Holy Spirit.

The problem is that he's got a little

Mmm, I

don't think

it would

ever give them answers

from the Bible

on anything and I

feel so sad for him that he

constantly Yeah.

The the.

Oil stigmata is the is a new one for me.

I haven't heard that one.

I think the only the only reason why Somebody should have oil on their hands is if they're an auto mechanic

a person with a glandular problem.

Or perhaps it's just somebody with bad hygiene.

Or maybe somebody who's tossed a salad with their bare hands.

I don't know.

But anyway, that's that's not a miraculous manifestation and and Let's stop

let's stop borrowing from our Roman Catholic friends this superstitious nonsense.

Yeah, well anything that is coming up that we should know about on

Cripplegate and also watch your life and doctrine closely.

And why the why.

What's the difference between those two blogs?

Is kind of very broad lots of subjects lots of stuff.

And they cover hermeneutics and evangelism theology and preaching and shepherding and tons of

stuff.

So the cripple gate is you go there every day.

There's always something new coming up and it's always good.

There's a lot of guys.

I love being the dumbest guy on that blog.

Well that that explains why John MacArthur showed you Ronald Reagan's grave.

I didn't.

What.

The connection there with John MacArthur is the Master's Seminary there.

Yeah, the only the only person that ever showed me a grave.

There was a guy from New Jersey who showed me my grave if I didn't pay him the money that I owed him.

But anyway.

And.

And of course you could go to Menno Knight mennoknight

.wordpress .com For watch your life and doctrine closely the other blog.

I want to thank you so much for being a part of our program today.

I look forward to having you back very soon.

And I want to thank everybody who listened especially those who submitted

questions for our guest Linden Unger today.

And I'd like to say goodbye to you off the air if you want to hang on the line for a minute.

But I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than

you are a sinner.

God bless.