How can I communicate "What is Truth?" with children? With Elizabeth Urbanowicz -Podcast Episode 195

The Importance of Truth for Children

God's word is truth. Shea I'm not sensing the passion and enthusiasm of a four-year-old in your answers.

Welcome to the got questions podcast. I'm joining me today is my wife Melissa. She is the managing editor of GQ kids org and two of us are gonna be tag-teaming and interviewing Elizabeth or Bonowitz of foundation worldview who's the author of a new book for kids called? What is truth?

So Melissa. Elizabeth, thanks for joining me today.

Thanks so much for having me on.

So just to start off. Well, really all the questions are gonna be easy friendly. We love your book. We love the concept but um, what led you to write? Um, what is truth and just out of curiosity? Do you plan on this being a series of books for kids or is this kind of a one-shot?

Yeah, good question so the first question with you know what led us to create this book at foundation worldview on the concept of truth is. This is a concept we cover in almost every single one of our curriculums because it's so foundational and we thought you know.

Why don't we have you know help us have a broader audience so we can reach even more kids. You know for some parents that might not want to purchase a full-on Curriculum to be able to purchase a picture book to lay this foundation of truth.

And the reason that truth is so important is we live in a culture that just teaches our kids and us. That the most reliable guide to reality is our internal subjective feelings. And so if we want our kids to understand who God is and his character and his nature and the reliability of Scripture We first have to start off with a concept of truth so that they understand that truth doesn't change with their feelings.

It's outside of them. It's objective. And so when we're talking about God We're talking about a being the most highest the most high and powerful being who is outside of them. So that was really our motivation for writing this book at foundation worldview.

And then as far as is this is going to be a series or is this just a one-off book? We actually as we're recording this podcast We just finished the illustrations for our second book, which is called our feelings truth.

So Lord willing that will be released in the summer of 2024. So we don't know how far we're gonna go with the series. But we at least know that there's one book out and there's another one on the way.

Teaching Children to Recognize What Is True

That's awesome Elizabeth. A couple days ago we had a four-year-old come through our office. She was visiting her dad at work. And her name is Selah and I asked her to read through your book with me and I haven't showed the cover yet.

It's called it is what is truth? And of course it has a great definition of truth, which is.

Truth is what is real. Truth is what is real?

Isn't that just so simple. We make it so hard don't we? Well, I asked her to read through the book with me and she eagerly agreed and we got to the point in the book where you encourage the kids to learn what truth is by playing a game and For our listeners just so you know, the game is Ask kids to determine whether something is true or not True and on the items that are true there to throw their arms open and say true.

And what if it's not true. If the statement is not true, they're supposed to make an X and say not true. Well Selah really thought this was like, you know, she was gonna get an Academy Award for this Performance and so she really got into it.

So I thought it would be fun today to actually play the game with you, too.

So I.

Expect you to be just as enthusiastic as my little friend Selah. Okay, Sam. I'm looking at you here. Okay ready? Ready? Okay true. What do you do if it's true?

True.

Not true.

Not true. Okay ready? Okay. God is always good. God's word is truth.

True.

Shay I'm not sensing the passion and enthusiasm of a four-year-old in your answers. Okay, oranges are always purple. All right, this one's for Shay this one's just for Shay. Shay is going to take his wife out for dinner tonight.

I think my first question. You guys are great. Thank you for participating. Oh, why do you think it's important for even toddlers my four-year-old friend Selah? Why is it important for her or a young elementary student to get a foundation for just this basic concept of truth?

It's such a crucial building block. So can you speak a little bit into that?

Yes.

Well, we know that especially at the younger years kids are just figuring out how the world works. And they take one thing that they learn and they kind of turn it into a rule. Like for example little kids, you know, they notice that an edie goes on the end of a word when it's in the past tense.

So a lot of times if there's a word that does not have an edie. At the end when the past tense still still do it like for example instead of saying yesterday I ran most little kids will say yesterday I runned because they take that rule and they apply it everywhere and while in the in the case of language.

It doesn't always apply in general. It's good that God has designed little kids this way because when we teach them things like you need to look both ways before you cross The street we want them to do that every time even if there isn't a car on the road.

So that the time that there is a car they're prepared for that and they're safe. And so it's the same with the concept of truth. What we want to train little ones to do is to always be asking themselves.

Hmm. Is that true? Or is that not true? And so if we can teach them from this young age to have that paradigm in their mind so that anytime they Encounter something they're asking themselves. Is that true or is that not true?

We're setting them up on a trajectory to seek and hopefully follow truth all the days of their lives. Where if we don't train them in this way and they're just bombarded, you know. Teaching whatever you feel inside.

That's your truth. They're not gonna be asking themselves when they hear something. Hmm. Is that true or is that not true? They're gonna be asking themselves. How do I feel about this now asking ourselves how we feel about something isn't an inherently wrong question.

However, if we're asking ourselves that question to determine whether something is true or false. That's the wrong question to be asking. So that's why you know even from this toddler age of three four five We want to train kids to constantly be asking.

Hmm. Is that true or is that not true?

God's Word as the Objective Standard of Truth

So Melissa as the as editor of GQ kids that are I'm curious. I know GQ kids that are our site for kids is Kind of targeted for third graders. So a little bit older than what Elizabeth's referring to. But what are some of the most frequent questions?

We get a GQ kids that are related to truth.

You know, I was thinking about that when I was asked to be on this podcast and I think a lot of It comes down to the verse on John 17 17 Your word is truth and a lot of times our questions are revolve around that a little bit older and what Elizabeth is talking about.

But we do get questions from kids who are the same age as this book was written for. Why why should I trust it. Is the Bible real or is the Bible a fairy tale. You know, how do I know what in my life is is true and what isn't and like you said the whole concept of feelings.

It's very confusing. So Elizabeth Can you talk a little bit about why it's important for our kids even the youngest of them? To understand that God's Word is truth. Like why is that so important?

Yes. Well, we know as Christians that God is truth He is the source of truth that everything that we know that is true. It stems from him because he's the creator and sustainer of Reality, and so we want our kids to know that one their feelings are not the most reliable guide to truth.

So they shouldn't depend on that but even because we're living on this side of Genesis 3 There are even times when our minds are not a completely Infallible guide to truth, you know, there are times where our reasoning needs to be corrected you know all of these things our intellect our will and our emotion or you know, Like our thoughts our feelings and our actions need to be corrected and God's Word is that?

Plum line and so the one of the reasons why we even created this book or talk with kids about this Definition of truth that truth is what is real is we want to help even give them a foundation for understanding Why God's Word is true because obviously we want to teach them that God's Word is true.

But if we just always teach them God's Word is true. God's Word is true. God's Word is true and never give them any reasons Why they should believe that you know. Once they get to to around like nine or ten years old as they're starting to question things and they no longer view their parents or you know whoever their caretaker is as The ultimate authority and they're starting to question things and be more drawn to their peers.

They're gonna start to wonder, you know, like well, what you know, like can I really trust the Bible? You know. Why why is it that I should or is it just what I've been told my whole life where when we start off with this?

Definition that truth is what is real then we can help our kids see that the Bible gives the most Comprehensive guide to reality that there is, you know. When we start to look at other worldviews and what other worldviews teach and we evaluate them.

We can start to see the ways in which they fall short, you know, for example, just even thinking of morality. What is right and what is wrong and how we determine that? Other worldviews teach vastly different things than the biblical worldview.

The biblical worldview teaches that right and wrong stems from God's character that Anything that aligns with who God is is what's right? And that is what God commands us to do where anything that goes against God's character that is wrong and so there is this objective standard of truth and For morality where other worldviews, you know, if we look at the naturalistic worldview, which teaches that only the physical realm is real.

Nothing spiritual or metaphysical is real. Well, you can't hold morals in your hand. You can't hold justice. You can't hold fairness. You can't hold kindness. You can't hold love. Those are those are Intangible things they're metaphysical and so according to the naturalistic worldview.

Those aren't really real things. There is no such real thing as right or wrong what it is as humans as a society. We've collectively seen you know. What helps us survive the best and those things that help us survive the best and live in harmony those things we label as good.

The things that don't help us do that we label as bad if you look at you know. More Eastern religions that have been kind of morphed in the West, you know, we've adapted little pieces of them here and there.

Well Eastern religions teach that the spiritual is what's most real and that we are all connected through the spiritual. And so therefore, how do we determine right from wrong? We look at our heart and our heart always guides us in the right way.

Well, then we see very clear examples of people who followed their heart that we would say, um, you're actually wrong. So anyway, I know I know I'm digressing a little bit here. But just to say, you know, we want to lay this foundation of truth to help our kids see that the Bible Provides the best guide to what is really real and that when we compare what scripture teaches with what other worldviews teach it teach.

We consistently see that what scripture teaches is actually what is real.

Helping Children Think Carefully About Scripture

Yeah, oftentimes in the first day of a class with kids I often bring like a book of fairy tales. And a book of the Bible. A book of the Bible. I bring the Bible. And I asked them to tell me what the difference is.

Hmm, and some of them just stare at me like Wait a minute Is there a difference. And that brings me to a question that you guys actually? Discussed on your Facebook page or social media pages this week about how when you have a class full of kids and Some of them have no foundation for the Bible being true.

And.

You have others who are being raised in an environment where their parents love Jesus and are fully devoted followers of Jesus. And they want their kids to have that worldview as well. How do you as a teacher?

Or maybe even as a foster parent or some other situation a teacher. How do you? How do you teach in that sort of environment where it's such a different? The foundation is different for various kids.

Yes, that is a tricky situation. And I spent the first decade of my professional career as an elementary teacher in a classroom. And so I knew I know how challenging this is when you have kids of varying different abilities and levels and skill sets.

Well when we're thinking about specifically about you know A Sunday school setting or kids ministry setting our recommendation at foundation worldview is to aim high. Because a lot of times what we do is we aim really low and we're like well those kids whose parents are discipling them.

Well, they'll get that at home. Let's help out the kids whose parents aren't discipling them. Well, and do we want to help those kids out? Absolutely, you know, we want to love them. We want to help them out.

But if we just dumb everything down to that really really low level. Every child in that classroom whether they have high biblical literacy or low biblical literacy is going to get the false Impression that the biblical worldview teaches us to turn off our minds.

Oh, this is so much easier than what I get in school. You know, this is so much easier than the classroom. You know, I even saw this in my own teaching in Sunday school. I if this was about a decade ago I was teaching Sunday school and I would rotate, you know in and out weeks like there was a couple different teachers and one time one of the students from the class saw me in the Like the foyer area of the church and he goes.

Oh, no, it's you and I was like, well I'm really happy to see you too today Samuel. Why are you not excited to see me he's like Oh seeing you means you're probably our teacher and I can't stand it when you're our teacher and I was like Well, why is that and he's like because when anybody else teaches I just say Jesus as the answer and they're fine with it.

Except for you you asked me why and you make me think and you're not supposed to think at church school is the place. You're supposed to think and so now I quickly told him I was like Samuel I know you didn't mean that as a compliment, but that's one of the best compliments a child has ever given me.

But what he was able to articulate that most eight-year-olds aren't able to articulate is he already had this paradigm you go to church. You shut your mind off you go to school you turn your mind on.

So in our kids ministries or any kind of instruction in a church setting we need to aim high. And I don't mean aiming high. Expecting third and fourth graders to be able to do college level stuff. But I do mean that we're still within the realm of what's developmentally appropriate.

But aiming high so that the kids who already have a solid foundation. They're challenged and so the kids who lack that foundation. Realize that they're lacking something and they want to be able to catch up because we can provide that support for them.

But we we need to make sure we're aiming high rather than dumbing things down.

Preparing Kids for Difficult Passages and Questions

Elizabeth that raises a interesting question along the lines, but most are shared as well. Something I've often wondered. I've seen a lot of people Christians who older kids get exposed to in middle school high school or even college or for the first time in their life, they're exposed to some of the challenges with scripture or some of the challenges with Christian theology and The fact that they were never exposed to it in the church in youth group with their parents like no you mean There's difficult passages in the Bible.

There's Passes that seem to contradict. So what would be your advice regarding at what point do you start? Preparing Kids for the fact that there are some difficulties in the Bible. There are difficult to explain passages and there are aspects of the Christian faith that are Really really tough to understand.

So but what's your advice with that of how to bring that in as part of the.

Process.

Because I love I love helping prepare people for these things and you're absolutely right. We don't want to shelter our kids from all of the you know, quote-unquote difficulties in scripture. We want to prepare them to understand them and when they have questions that they haven't encountered before that We haven't even encountered that they have some skills to actually go out and seek the answer.

So I have a few recommendations first recommend just from a very young age have kids in Scripture because a lot of times we think you know.

Oh.

It's not until they're like eight or nine years old that we can kind of like put the children's Bible to the shelf and bring Out the real Bible, you know the actual Bible where there are some really great children's Bibles out there.

So I'm not saying ditch the children's Bible completely, but I am saying, you know. Even three or four years of age. We should be reading scripture to and with our children so that they can ask questions.

They can hear what God's Word actually says. Now as a three-year-old gonna catch everything in a passage. No, you know like a lot of times even a 33 year old, you know Doesn't catch everything in a passage, but we want to make sure that we're immersing them in scripture because when we immerse them in scripture.

These challenges are naturally going to come up and kids ask some of the greatest questions. I remember back when I lived in Chicago one one evening I was babysitting for my pastor's kids. He and his wife went out on a date and I was babysitting for them and as part of their bedtime routine.

They would read through a chapter of scripture Together and so I was they were reading through the Gospel of John. So, you know, I just took that over as I was tucking their kids into bed and we were reading through Jesus when he was praying in the garden and their four-year-old goes wait Jesus is God.

So Jesus is praying to himself Yourself. You know like and she just asked this question and we were able to talk through and they had they happen to be working their Way through the New City Catechism, so I knew they had memorized this question.

So I said, wait a minute. How many persons are there in God and their three-year-old goes there are three persons and the one true and living God God the father God the Son and God the Holy Spirit and we talked through you know, who is Jesus.

Jesus is God the Son and now that Isn't a problem passage in Scripture, but it is a difficult concept that she there there three and four-year-old wouldn't have had to wrestle through if they weren't actually in The Gospel of John, so that's my first recommendation, you know to actually be in Scripture with our kids.

So that these things are just gonna naturally come out then my second recommendation would be to have a mind shift that we tend to think as parents or Christian educators or church leaders that we have to have all of the answers and When we do that when our kids come to us with questions and we think oh I have to have the perfect answer what we're doing is we're training them to view us as the expert and Them as someone who's not the expert and so then they're just gonna be completely dependent on us.

Which once they get older and they don't really care so much with what we think and they care more about their peers or the tick-tock Star, you know or some college professor. They're just gonna go to that person and be completely dependent on that person.

So what I recommend is that we have this mindset shift and rather than viewing ourselves as the expert We view ourselves as the guide. How can we train our children to find solid answers now on the foundation worldview podcast and on our webinars?

We are constantly recommending your guy's site because it's so helpful for finding solid answers. But also pointing people to scripture. So it's not just like oh, you know, this is Shay's idea of the answer to this question.

It's like here's what scripture Says and so that's a resource that we can train our kids to use we can say, you know what? We don't have the answers to all this but you know what? Let's go on the got questions website.

Let's read a few articles and then let's dive into the different passages of scripture in those articles. So that's what I would recommend one get our kids in scripture so that these things just come out naturally and then to shift our mindset from having to be the expert to actually being a Guide who's helping our kids learn.

How can we find solid answers to difficult questions?

Practical Ways to Teach Truth Through Games and Activities

Elizabeth I love that. That's like the premise of GQ kids. We never want a child to feel like he or she cannot ask a question and so we allow kids to come on the site and ask questions and we have people who answer them for them at an age-appropriate level.

And Shane I had a pastor one time many years ago that his parents discouraged him from asking questions all the way through and because it was a lack of Faith of not having it all together of you know, you're supposed to present yourself as someone who understands, right?

What a horrible thing to do to a child. To anyone really. But so we always want a child to be able to Be curious and what a better place to do GQ kids or with your world new curriculum. So I Would love for you to share one thing.

I love about the book. Is that it's a simple way to it's kind of an organic way to talk about truth and then the game makes it fun. Right. So what are some other ways for parents to be able to teach their children about truth?

Even when they're, you know, my little friend say lows age four. Do you have some fun ways or maybe stoplight conversation type? Questions that you that they can ask their kids about that.

Yes.

Well.

Kind of what you just modeled you took the game from that book and then you asked Shea and me questions and we had to answer and so one of our goals with this book is that as kids and parents learn. That it will slowly replace the I'm thinking of an animal or I spy game in the car.

You know that it will be a fun game that they'll enjoy coming up with sentences for one another but then that that will organically work into Conversations that you know when kids are watching a show, you know, and a character says something they'll they'll say Oh wait, that wasn't true.

That wasn't true what they just said or you know, a mom can pause a show. You know and ask was that true or that not true? So we're hoping that it will turn into a game. Yep, true and not true we're hoping that it will turn into a game that families will just love to play but then that they'll implement when they're watching shows when They're having a conversation on the playground, you know when they're doing homework or if they're homeschooled, you know.

When they're doing their math or their history, so that's really our goal one activity We give for older kids, you know an eight-year-old might still be okay with raising their arms and going true. But it depends on the eight-year-old.

Some some.

Yeah, so I mean it could just last for a life. But one activity we recommend for older kids to get across the idea that truth is what is real is. You can just have like a family treasure hunt, you know.

Figure out something that your kids would enjoy like, you know. Like a piece of chocolate or stickers or you know. Like maybe like a date with dad coupon or something like that and hide it somewhere around the house.

Then write out two or three different sets of instructions for finding that prize, but only have one of them be true. Instructions. Have the other ones. Send the kids on a wild goose chase. Now take it from someone who learned this the hard way.

You have to explain to the kids beforehand that the directions may or may Not be true. If you don't explain that beforehand, most people end up crying and nobody learns anything. So make sure you explain that beforehand and then send your kids out on this treasure hunt if you only have one child.

You know, you can have them pick a set of directions if it doesn't lead to the truth. You know where the prizes have them pick another one and then debrief afterwards and talk about you know. Like why did it take you three times to find this?

You know like or why did only one of you find this prize and then talk about you know. Well, two of the sets of directions did not tell you the truth. They did not tell you where the prize really was and then you can introduce that definition.

Truth is what is real. So just any activity that you can do to help your kids determine, you know. Okay, this is what is true. This is what is real. This is what it's not if you have even older kids if they don't if they think a treasure hunt would be lame.

Give them a recipe for your favorite family dessert, you know. And alter one of the alter the recipe. You know. And then have them try to create this favorite family dessert just as a little disclaimer.

Make sure your children do not get salmonella. They don't burn the house down. Be careful with this. Okay? But you know like with the altered directions then ask me why did we end up with this? Sticky mess or like why did we end up with this really salty cookie, you know?

Because the directions did not tell us what was true. They didn't tell us how to really make this dessert. So those are just a few different ideas can do with kids of different ages just to help them understand this concept that truth is.

What is real?

It sounds like something that would be fun in a classroom, too. Right, can you. You know, everybody brings their their parents a cookie at church time. I don't know. I think it could be really fun.

Foundation Worldview, God's Good Design, and Closing Remarks

Elizabeth always we love what you're doing at Foundation worldview. I think this is the third time we've had you on the podcast so big fans your ministry and 100 on board with the need of Communicating truth and worldview to kids at a young age.

I mean it makes a huge impact for them to be prepared as they get older to already be thinking about these things. So I'm keep doing what you're doing. Again, we got questions are our big fans and thank you for the encouragement.

I got questions as well. So Just briefly. Um, what else is new going on at Foundation worldview? And what is the best way for people to acquire the what is truth book for their kids or grandkids?

Yes. So our latest project Lord willing next week We're gonna be filming videos for an upcoming curriculum called God's good design. And it's on the goodness of God's design for embodiment gender marriage and family and believe it or not.

That's gonna be for kids ages 4 on up. So kids roughly ages 4 to 7 or age 4 to 8 just to build the positive biblical theology of God's good design. So we're really excited about that and then to find out more information about that or other curriculums or the book if People go to foundation worldview calm.

You can find out all of that information there on our website.

Well, fantastic, I think it's a Melissa and Selah firmly endorsed the book. Highly recommended. A really good first step for helping kids to understand the concept of truth that truth is what is real.

So Elizabeth, thank you for joining us today. Again, Melissa. Thanks for joining me in the interview and I'm just one question for you. Um, where am I taking you for dinner tonight?

I don't know. We'll see how the rest of the day goes.

Got questions. Podcast with Elizabeth Urbano. It's on her new book for kids. What is truth? Got questions. Bible has answers and we'll help you find.