Vocab Malone and Hebrew Israelism: Mega Edition with Calls!

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00:44

Welcome to The Dividing Line, a special mega edition at an unusual time.

00:49

We even got started a little bit late. Apologies for that. But we have a lot to talk about.

00:56

Believe me, we do have a lot to talk about because I can't even tell which camera

01:01

I'm looking at anymore. I guess it's that one there. You know, I just want to start off by saying

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I realize that there are some tremendous issues. I'm trying to figure out,

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I haven't talked to Rich yet about it, whether coming back from Flagstaff on Friday or whether we can just do something maybe even on Monday.

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I know it's July 4th. But there are some tremendous issues.

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The Supreme Court abomination yesterday, the responses to it.

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There are some important things. I'm not putting those things aside.

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It's just that there have been lots of people who have already very thoroughly responded to those things. It's not that we won't hopefully have something meaningful to say.

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But anyway, we only have so much time. I'm going to be heading out of town.

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I've mentioned this before. Next week I head out of town. I'm going to be out of town briefly the next couple of days, but not tomorrow.

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And we've had an opportunity to speak to a particular issue that we've not addressed before.

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And so we're taking the opportunity. And it's sort of rushed. It's sort of quick. But we do what we can do.

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And so I am joined and channeled by the man when it comes to this particular subject.

02:27

He's hiding behind the thing right there. Yeah, it depends on which shot we've got.

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We're not used to, you know, we're not Apologia. Excuse me while I spit after that.

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What are you doing, Reg? Oh, okay. All right. Man, I really look like I never see the sun right now, especially next to you.

02:58

I do see the sun. I just bathe in sunscreen because we are the skin cancer capital of the world.

03:05

Anyway, you know, I had some people today I announced, I said, vocab

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Malone's going to be with me. And they all thought that you were part of the Hebrews like movement.

03:17

Oh, right, right. Yeah. And I'm like, no, that's the only name I know. I've been,

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I was on when it was called Backpack Radio. And you and Jeff Durbin would trade insults all the time, which

03:33

I guess you still do in some ways. Sort of, but they got too big. And so it's not as fun anymore. When we were more the similar size, it was fun, but now it's kind of like a little guy.

03:42

Yeah, that's true. That's true. And we can pick on Jeff today because I happen to know he's flying to, he's off to suffer for Jesus in Hawaii.

03:50

And actually we do need to pray for him because I guess the Mormons are really giving him some real hard pushback.

03:55

Oh, really? Because he's going to be speaking on Mormonism and stuff there. So the Mormons have sort of had Hawaii to themselves for a long time.

04:02

Oh, they like the islands. They do. They do. They've gotten a lot of, a lot of converse there. But anyway, you, you are to blame for all this.

04:12

Seems that's the case. Yeah. You're to blame for all this because what happened was, you were on with Jeff and the gang.

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And I've had a lot of people contacting me saying, you need to address this, this issue of the

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Hebrew Israelite movement. Some people say black Hebrew Israelite. They don't like that. The funny thing is they say they don't like that.

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And the next 30 seconds later, they're proving that King James is a black guy. So it's sort of hard to figure out what the problem is.

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If you're going to spend all this effort over here, why aren't you mentioning over here? But anyway, I've been, have all sorts of people saying, you need to talk about this.

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And the fact of the matter is there's only so many things you can do well. And there's all sorts of people that want to have me dealing with Hinduism or Buddhism or Eastern Orthodoxy.

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And I just don't think that trying to cover everything is possible for any human being.

05:06

Not to do it well. You can do it on a surface level, but that's not how we like to handle things. So I see this,

05:12

I don't know if it was Facebook or what it was, but this thing where they're saying, Hey, we did this thing with vocab and he's in studio.

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And so I'm like, yeah. So I grab it and I don't know. I watched that, but it was only like 30 minutes.

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It was pretty short. It was pretty short. I learned a lot. I'm like, whoa, this really looks complicated. Too many acronyms and differences.

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And it's sort of how I felt when I first started studying Mormonism years and years and years ago, I didn't really have anybody to give me any guidance.

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And, oh, it just seems like so many different topics you have to try to deal with. But then

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I don't remember if it was a YouTube side thing, but you did, it was about what, an hour and 40 minutes?

05:59

Yeah, something like that. It was an interview with the Gathering of Christ Church. GOCC. Yeah. They're one of the bigger

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Hebrew -Israelite camps. I was on with Elder Ricar, Elder Gabar and some other gentlemen. And it was a follow -up to, they saw what

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I did in apology and wanted to talk to me about it. And their main point was we need to clear up some misconceptions with you. So, I didn't try to force my way into the conversation.

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They did lecture me. So, I only spoke a little bit. You did get lectured. But I'm laid back, God is sovereign. And so, I'm not going to like force it.

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And so, I did not talk that much. I tried to say what I could, but it was good nonetheless because it showed

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I was willing to go on with them. And I got a very good personal close relationship specifically with Elder Gabar after that.

06:37

We talked for one night. I took a screenshot of it because I didn't believe in myself for eight hours. Wow. So, full working day and a very nice gentleman.

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So, I have a lot of respect for them. And then you heard it. I heard it. I saw that.

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And so, I grabbed it and put the audio on my iPod because I was driving down to Mount Lemmon to do some altitude training and listened to it on the way down.

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And I was like, wow, they were saying that the term deity is never used of Jesus and invented the

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Council of Nicaea and stuff like that. And I'm like, man, this is stuff that I've dealt with over and over and over and over again over the years.

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And so, I just put the word out and not only did I end up getting in touch with them, but I don't even know all the different groups that ended up contacting.

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They're all going to come after you. I've had it happen to me, but my guess is since you did what you did, you're probably going to get a lot worse.

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Like the amount of backlog I have of people that want to do something, a lot of them are like, put me on your

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TV. Well, so here's my theory. Here's my theory. Up until now, all the interactions are with their video equipment on street corners or them bum rushing into churches during services or something like that.

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Very kind of guerrilla tactics. There's even a guy who calls himself guerrilla Hebrew. So, kind of that level of stuff.

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Apologia, the level of quality of presentation that they have is rare. And then for someone to be speaking on it, not just in vague generalities, but with some level of detail, some historical information, some difference between the camps,

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I don't think really had happened before. And so, it's like it was all already there, but there was a light shined on it.

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And it may seem like a small thing to the people involved, like apology, didn't really know what they were getting into, et cetera, et cetera.

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I didn't have an idea of the backlash that would, but all of a sudden it's like the lid popped off and everyone jumped out.

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And everyone was like, well, I want a piece of this quasi mainstream action. But if you hear about the way they talk about it, they're like, this is fulfillment of prophecy that Esau, that's what they call the so -called white man.

08:44

They prefer to call him the red man. He's red and hairy. Esau is trying to stop us. Yeah, actually a proof text they use is that Jacob had smooth skin and Rabbi Matthew, one of the old school guys in Harlem, congregation keeper, this is a quote from his handbook.

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And when he explains who's who, Jacob had smooth skin, quote, as the black man invariably is, end quote.

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He's saying like also had smooth skin versus red, hairy white guys. And they love to show pictures of like red, hairy white guys with sunburnt necks, which is kind of funny.

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Rednecks, the real rednecks. Yeah, so, but that's, I think it's just, it's exposed what's there and it's jumping off and everybody wants to like get a piece of it in a way.

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It is fascinating the response. There's no two ways about it. But obviously we set up the dialogue and it is what it is and it was what it was.

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Not gonna go back over, I guess they've done a three and a half hour. You're a

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Jesuit agent. You're probably demon possessed, it's obvious by your eyes.

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Yeah, no one's ever said that before. You're a devil. This is all in the three and a half hours.

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This is from another review by another camp. But actually on GOCC, they did say, now we don't believe the white man is the devil, but I could see how someone watching this might think that.

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So you, so there is that. However, however, there's the other side. And I sent you a

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YouTube of this. I was in a Google hangout with G -man. He has a group of strong brothers and sisters in the metro areas of different cities around the

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United States. They do regular Google hangouts specifically on this issue. And sometimes they have

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Hebrew Israelites invited and a kind hearted sister said, vocab, thank you for what you're doing.

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Because of the dialogue with Elder Ricar, I know two sisters who came out of this movement.

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And then at the end, she reiterated, when you see James White, could you ask him to do this again? And you did.

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And you did. And we are. We are tomorrow. We're doing a two hour. I just felt that it would be necessary to have time constraints.

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I've got my thing ready to go. And because you may have gotten 20 to 25 % when you were on,

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I probably got about 40 % maybe. And that's because I am more aggressive than you are probably.

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And it was your show. It was my show. Right, right. And it was just one on one. I had like three guys. Exactly. Well, it was one against more than one person on the other side.

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And it will be tomorrow too. I assure you. But I just felt that there needed to be equal time and there needed to be specific topics.

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So we didn't end up going, you know, just, and I have a feeling it still will. Probably not be as focused as I would like.

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I mean, on my part, I will be as, as people know me, they can go watch the debates.

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I focus like a laser beam. But what's interesting is in over nearly an hour yesterday of Facebook messaging to try to get this cleared up as to what we're going to be talking about.

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We ended up with the subject of the King James. I guess the Apocrypha got stuck in there briefly.

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I want to do a whole section just on the Apocrypha because I can guarantee you. Not all the groups,

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I guess, are big on that aspect of it. Every group I know holds to the Apocrypha.

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However, sometimes they often hold to different Apocryphal books. But the non -Messianic ones. I don't think the non -Messianic ones do.

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I can't imagine how they would. I totally want someone to make a meme though, of a Hebrew on a street corner, holding up their red

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Apocrypha. And on the top, say, accuses Christians of being

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Roman Catholics on the top or something like that on the bottom while reading from Apocrypha. Which is the amazing thing is the fact is the ancient

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Jewish people never accepted those books of scripture. So I just don't get the feeling they've ever done much in the way of serious research on the historical aspect of that.

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But anyway, I wanted to deal with that, but it was sort of like, oh. Do you know why it's useful to them though?

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I've heard one quotation from it. Just one. Here's my main theory on it. Now, they're not going to say this is why it's useful.

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Because the Apocrypha does have a more strident, nationalistic, anti -Gentile slant than the

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Hebrew scriptures themselves. Because they are reinterpreting themselves as the ancient Hebrew Israelites, the

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Apocrypha is very useful in xenophobia and ethnocentrism. It can much more readily play into their hands for that.

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Well, and given when it was written and what the historical context was, which most

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Christians don't have any idea. Most Christians have never read the Apocrypha. They have no earthly idea what it's about anyways or why it was written and things like that.

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Well, that makes sense. But we're going to talk about the King James. We're going to talk about, of course, the big thing, the paganism stuff.

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And I said I wanted to separate two different issues. You've got the

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Lord's Day and the whole concept that obviously is central here.

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And that is the idea of parallelomania, the idea that because something is in a religion over here, if it's in this religion over there, there's got to be a connection.

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There doesn't have to be a connection. I mean, I watched some of these videos from some of these other groups where they're marching into and they're wearing and you could drop parallels to every kind of paganism on the planet.

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Or even you could probably draw parallels between a lot of Greco -Roman mystery religions and the need for secret words that only insiders would know that would be necessary to get the deity's attention.

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Well, that's kind of actually what they do with sort of secret phonetics and mystery Hebrew that they think is necessary.

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In fact, I watched a video after the debate. A man reviewed the video. It's actually kind of funny, even though it's pretty brutal.

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And his main reason he said Elder Gabbar lost was because he calls

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God Ahiya. So his main reason is he came in the wrong name for the Most High.

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He called him Ahiya when everyone knows, according to this video, that's not the right name. So, direct connection.

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Yeah. Oh, yeah. Most definitely. So, I'm going to be focusing on Kuria Kehimera, Lord's Day, why the

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Christians adopted this. It appears in the Didache and in Ignatius and Magnesians 9 and so on and so forth.

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But I can't predict exactly where he's going to be going on that, but that's fine.

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And each is a 40 -minute debate. Right. So like 10 -minute opening statements.

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I didn't think that formal cross -examination would work. Probably not. So it's going to be a crossfire thing, one minute, one minute back and forth type thing.

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But then what happened was I just asked a question and I asked, do you believe the gospel is for all men?

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Because I heard a debate before we did our thing last. I was going someplace else.

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I listened or on a ride or something free where it was. I listened to, it was on a ride, a debate between some

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Hebrew Israelites and the Church of Christ. Yeah, that's IUIC. The debate is with IUIC, Israel United in Christ.

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They wear the purple and gold. They're labeled by Nathaniel, a man who actually used to be a NYPD detective.

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And to me, so this is my view, if you want a little camp information, they're by far the most organized and professional.

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You watch one of their videos, it's got production value. They have these organized uniforms. They're big on discipline and order, and they are very efficient at setting up local camps and they have a sort of a systematic methodological way they'll do it.

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And they're very willing if the camp gets outside of their orthodoxy, they'll shut down camps.

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So they're ruthless and protecting doctrinal purity as they see it. Strong central organization. Yeah. So IUIC to me is they have an app.

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They have a podcast. In fact, Dr. White go down Indian School on 30th

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Avenue, suites on the south side of the street, right around 31st

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Avenue. I think it's 3030. I forget off the top of my head. It couldn't be 3030. It has to be odd. Maybe it's 2929, something like that.

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3131. Anyways, there's a Israel United in Christ Arizona suite they have on the second floor.

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On Indian School. Yeah. Really interesting. What's the largest group? It's difficult to tell what's going on with these numbers.

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What's the largest camp right now? I do not know. It's very, very difficult to tell. They argue with each other about it.

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Yeah. I'm sure someone's gonna say it's evidence he doesn't know, and they'll probably all say we are, but it's possible it's even one of these older groups because this actually goes back to post civil war, this kind of doctrine.

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Now it's been fleshed out more and more clearly in the 70s and 80s and 90s. However, there are actually older kind of more established churches that do this, and they look more like churches.

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I'm not saying they're necessarily Christian, but I'm saying they have more like services. Some of them even have gospel choirs, but they don't do the street teaching.

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They're not as radical. So you don't know about them. And I don't get the feeling they're on the ascendancy anymore. However, I've heard of one in the

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South. I got to verify this. A lot of stuff you get with this is hearsay and oral, so you have to verify everything.

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I've heard though there's a congregation in the South that's got a thousand people in it. You have to verify these things because you're going to Talbot, and you have to do it by certain rules.

18:32

Right. Other folks aren't so big on verifying those things. So the group that I saw,

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I saw this from 2009, this thing where you've got these people in these costumes.

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All the medieval looking. Marching in together as groups. And then they all sit down and have a soul singing thing with guys that look like they're from the 1960s singing 1960s songs.

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I had never seen anything like it in my life, but they were big. I mean, that was a big group of people.

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It's probably one of their feast days. The time where you see the largest amount of Hebrews gathered together in one location is during what they call feast days.

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And whenever they do the feast days, a lot of times camps come from certain close proximity geographical areas, and they'll all come together.

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Sometimes I think they'll even come from all over. And I heard, I believe ISUPK rented a ballroom in New York.

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And so I had another man tell me from another camp say, ISUPK is not as big as they once were because I know for a fact that ballroom can barely hold about 500 people.

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And then he went on to say some of the other camps, their feast days use this room and that room, and they're much larger.

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So ISUPK though, is the granddaddy. I was going to say, I see that a lot on YouTube.

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And what does that stand for? Israelite School of Universal Practical Knowledge. Universal Practical Knowledge.

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They come out of Harlem, a place called One West. So a lot of times they throw their address around One West because all the current camps have come out of One West.

20:07

All of them. Yeah, there's the... He's no longer with them. Comfey, the man you're pointing to on the screen, he's no longer with them, but he was at one time.

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Part of the reason for the split is he started identifying himself as the Holy Spirit. So his name is the

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Comforter or Comfey for short. And he is the one, I made a mistake in apology, by the way, everyone.

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I said General Yohanna of ISUPK is the one who wanted the doll made of him. I was incorrect. And I had him put a little subtitle on there.

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I don't know why I said the wrong name. It was actually Comfey. He is the one who had the doll made of them. They had to bid snafu because they sued the doll maker because it was too light.

20:42

Right, right. I remember you saying that. So the information here from... Obviously, this fellow, do you know who this fellow is on Twitter?

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I can't see his name. No, I don't. Because the whole time I was talking last week, he was posting stuff up and seems to know a lot about this.

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What's his name again? Abu Kamer. Oh, is that the... I don't know. I think he...

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Twitter is Twitter, you know. I'll look him up real quick. I might know. There's a man I found online and I believe he's

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Arabic. I believe he's Arabic. Well, Abu Kamer certainly sounds that way. I think. And he is the most...

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There's one other person. There's these two guys online. They both either were in it or have family members.

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And they're both some of the most well -studied people. They know the history in and out. They know street legends about these guys, such as martial art exploits of taking on people in the streets.

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There's actually some really wild stuff once you start getting deeper into this. I imagine. And if that's him, he's the one who gave me that video that I showed you before we started the program, where they break down...

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GMS breaks down their understanding of the Hebrew dialect. Right. We've got that up. But here he says, first of all, the marching group from 2009 and the music show was the

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ICGJC Passover. Yeah. And then he gives a link and then said, one small correction, the

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ISUPK became ICUPK and then ICGJC.

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Yes. Yohanna broke away and renamed his group ISUPK. Because it wasn't... How could anyone?

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Well, so what happened was they never copyrighted. They never got their name like patent or whatever.

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So he was able to... Yohanna was able to use ISUPK, even though it was the name that went back all the way. Even though kind of the main guy behind all this, a man named

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Yohanna... I'm sorry. I'm sorry. A man named Eriah is the one who provided the vocalization guesses as well as created the 12

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Tribes Chart. So Eriah is an older man, but he is really, to me, the brainchild behind this.

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And he's not actually really discussed that much, but he is with that group that you have on the screen, not ISUPK. The reason why

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ISUPK is able to be named ISUPK is because it was copyrighted. And the reason why there was an ICUPK is because they turned into church to get non -profit status, which is a big, big controversy.

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A lot of groups say once you get non -profit status, you've got the white man's paper and you've sold out. Oh, sure. It's a controversy. Okay, wait a minute.

22:53

The Tribes Chart, is that what I saw at the beginning of the video recently where they identify each of the tribes with Cubans and...

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Black Americans, tribe of Judah. Haitians, I think, are Levi. Go down the list. You want to know how they got it?

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Yeah. Okay, General... I'm sorry. Why do I keep on doing this? Eriah sat down, basically.

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I guess he was led by the spirit, is the sort of rumor. So it's a spiritual revelation. And he looked at Genesis 49.

23:22

That's the key. Genesis 49. Okay. And what he did is... The blessings. Yes, he matched up his understanding of what was being said about each tribe there with basically...

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This is my interpretation, but I think it's right. Ethnic stereotypes. So Issachar are

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Mexicans. Could you guess why? Remember what it says about Issachar, anybody? No. There's something about a beast of burden like a donkey and they'll be forced into labor they don't want to do, but they'll be hard workers, basically.

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So those are people of Mexican descent. If I said that, I would never hear the end of it.

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But see, the thing is, this is inside information because this isn't... No one really wants to tell you how they made the hot dog, you know?

24:03

And so, but the thing is... Which by the way, is an offensive metaphor to these folks, you know, hot dog.

24:09

Well, of course, it's not kosher. Yeah, but so Eriah is the one who did this.

24:14

And it's really matching up Genesis 49 with people groups around the world. And then that's why

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Judah, who are viewed as so -called Black Americans in the Western hemisphere, that's why they have the leadership because they have the scepter.

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So they're to lead this charge. Benjamites are like Jamaicans, for example, and cats like that.

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So, and I think other West Indy folks, you go down Puerto Ricans, Cubans, and it gets really weird because those are ethnic groups.

24:40

But then all of a sudden it switches to geographical regions. When you read the chart, you're like, there's an inconsistency.

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These are geographical regions now that you just went into. And it's really odd. North American, Native Americans are

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GAD. However, the Seminole Indians, that's what they call them on the chart, have their own tribe. So I've always been perplexed by why all

24:59

North Americans, Cherokee, Blackfoot, Apache, Navajo, they're all one. And then Seminoles get their own.

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And what I've heard from that is it has something to do with the Seminoles sort of were never really conquered like the other tribes or something.

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I don't really fully understand why, but they got their own spot. All right. So here comes obviously the question that I have and many other people have too.

25:23

When we make, when

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I go into a mosque and debate Muslims, if I'm going to make a statement about the

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Koran or something along those lines, I have to have some kind of defensible, meaningful documentation that can communicate to somebody else who doesn't automatically accept all of my beliefs or I can't communicate with another human being.

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There is no, you can't even begin to make a meaningful argument that these ethnic groups have some connection to the biblical tribes that are mentioned in Genesis 49.

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I mean, these are the only people in the world that believe this. But don't they reckon...

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Anglo -Israelites who got a kind of the polar opposite version. Well, they have their own weirdness too.

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But the idea that these groups are actually Israelites, there's this huge gap between Genesis 49 and the modern era where all of a sudden this becomes proclaimed.

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Don't they see that that's a problem? They say it's fulfillment of prophecy. And so there's discernment in determining what is a fulfilled prophecy.

26:47

And so that's why if you say, well, because of some of the Mormonism claims, North American, Native Americans have had

26:55

DNA testing and there's no Semitic lineage there. And so the preface to the Book of Mormon has been changed because of that.

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They say, we believe in scripture. We believe in biblical prophecy, not the white man's science.

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And then they'll say things against the whole concept of Semitic DNA in the first place. They'll say things like the only way you could really do this, if you jumped into time machine, took the

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DNA from an ancient Israelite, then jumped forward back and they compared it, but it still be sketchy because we can't trust this.

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So they cast dispersions on it when you turn to that. So that's irrelevant. However, when it suits their purposes, they do use it.

27:30

The tribe in Africa. Yes. So there's actually... Now this is real. People need to understand this. There are some groups in the

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African continent who do seem to have Semitic lineage, especially on the male side.

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It's a little less prominent whenever they do the women, but especially in the male side, such as the Igbo, the

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Limba, and there's some other groups that their oral history, some of their customs and practices, some of the religious rituals.

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And then when they did the testing, some of their DNA has the same markers to Semitic peoples,

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Israelites, Jews, that they have these clusters that they can determine. Here's some similarities.

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It's like they are very small, specific groups. Yeah. Yeah. But they do exist just so everyone knows. However, everyone should understand if you're watching this, because someone will take this clip and say, look, here, this guy is admitting the truth.

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Finally, it's a different claim to say there's folks on the African continent who display these characteristics.

28:26

That does not equal everyone who got over here from the transatlantic slave trade, therefore is a son of Israel. Similar, even if it was true, let's play the presuppositional game, that Black Americans were the product of the

28:39

Lost Tribes, so -called, and of Israel, right? Let's just say that's the case. Let's say you could prove that it was true.

28:45

That actually does not equal the 12 Tribes Chart. It still doesn't give you the 12 Tribes Chart. Not even close. And some groups have came along and added to the 12

28:52

Tribes Chart. So the Polynesians and the Islanders kind of got left out. So some of the groups have added them in now since then.

28:58

So there's even adjustments being made. So there's a fluctuation with these groups. There's a lot of racial energy in this.

29:07

Well, some of them, the hardcore ones like GMS say, yeah, God is a racist. Read Romans 9 through 11.

29:12

He hates the white man, Esau, the red hairy man. Deal with it. Others say, no,

29:18

God is a God of order. And you just need to accept that. Don't you believe

29:23

Israel was chosen? Read Romans 9 through 11. God is simply a God of order. So they still have a milder ethnic hierarchicalism, such as GeoCC.

29:32

So they believe a non -Israelite can be grafted in, can be part of the community, can even take part of the feast days, which by the way is a big controversy among Hebrew Israelites.

29:41

You got Esau at your feast day. Don't let that happen. But GeoCC allows that. But they use the scripture in Zechariah that says you need to cling or cleave to an

29:48

Israelite. So you have to be under them. So I come back with qualifications for an elder.

29:55

And I'll say, let's look at the qualifications for an elder. And we go through them. I say, what don't you see there?

30:01

Does not say must be an Israelite. That would seem important if you're saying that's a necessary thing, because sometimes my dialogue with a

30:07

GeoCC person, when I get one over on them, this is my view. They turn and say, well, this is why

30:13

Gentiles shouldn't be teaching the Bible anyway. Right. Which looks like a cop -out to me. It doesn't look like a legitimate answer.

30:19

It is a cop -out. And he pulled that on you at the end. He said, what I'd like you to do is give me my book back.

30:24

Right. Exactly. That's what he was saying. And so you see all this. But look, I'm glad you understand the need for this.

30:31

And here's what's up. I don't want to be mean to the people listening and say, don't waste your time, Dr. White. But if you think this is a waste of time, and this is me talking, not you, you probably live in a nice house.

30:41

What I mean by that, that's a controversial way to shake you up. You haven't walked through a train station in Philadelphia recently.

30:47

You think it's irrelevant because of where you are. But our cities know it's relevant. And it touches on a lot of key issues.

30:53

And the church has to have a heart for the city again, and realize it's part of the worldwide evangelistic missions project.

31:01

And so we need to be part of this. And it's a great opportunity for so -called traditional Black and so -called white evangelical mainstream churches to team up and have a partnership in the gospel, pool our resources together and see what we can do to protect

31:12

Christ's body. Okay. The fellow online here says the two people vocab referred to Abdel Masih al -Manhattani and Edward Machado.

31:26

I'm the former. Yep. There you go. So I made the video about Lashawan Kawadash, I guess.

31:33

Is that the video I have queued up? Excellent video. This man is someone that if you want to interview someone, like if I'm a level six or something, you want a level nine, interview him.

31:42

Okay. Well, I know he's been following me for a while. At least I think he has.

31:47

I've seen some commentary. If I recall correctly, on other topics before I started touching on this.

31:54

So Twitter can be a royal pain at times. At other times, it can be a real goldmine of connections and information.

32:02

You know, we've been throwing all sorts of stuff out here. And the fact of the matter is the vast majority of folks don't have a clue what in the world we're talking about, unfortunately, because especially these different groups.

32:15

Which groups? One of the questions I asked GOCC yesterday, we were setting up the topic for tomorrow, was about the gospel.

32:25

Yep. Now, they said that the gospel is for the

32:31

Jews first and then the Gentiles, and that a person's participation in it or the result of it differs.

32:38

It's different for a Gentile than it is for a Jewish person. That's different than some of the other groups who would basically say,

32:47

I'm out. Actually, to my knowledge, every main group says, if you're

32:53

Esau, you're an Edomite, you're out. It's not actually only Esau or Edomite. They usually say the same thing about whom they refer to Moabites, Asians, and other groups like that.

33:04

The Asians are Moabites. The Asians are Moabites. There's a video. Now, people are going to get mad when

33:09

I reference this. But just understand, guys, this is out there. So we've got to deal with it. Google and YouTube or whatever, the most hateful group in America.

33:17

There's four parts, three parts, I think, to it. It's a YouTube video of GMS in San Francisco spewing minutes and minutes of rhetoric.

33:27

And whoever edited the video, they've accomplished something it's never done before. Most of these videos are long form videos of them out on the street teaching, and they're not edited.

33:36

And so there's like one big moment, and that's what they titled the video after, such as white man gets destroyed by GMS facts or something like that.

33:44

This video is edited. So it's only the insults. So it is a thing of treacherous beauty to behold.

33:52

When you watch it, the crazy side of you is going to laugh because you've never heard such a sustained rhetoric of just pure vile bile in your life.

34:04

But in there, there's several encounters because they're in San Francisco. They have with Asians. It does not go well.

34:10

It does not go. It is not cool. It's crazy. So if you watch that video again, it's GMS. It's not GOCC. So we need to separate these groups.

34:18

All right. GOCC. Gathering of Christ Church. A scale of one.

34:25

10 is the wildest. 10 is the wildest least amount of willingness to even hear what you have to say.

34:35

GMS. Okay. So 10 is GMS. Where's GOCC? Well, I don't know if there is really a one and a two and a three, but GOCC is between a four and a...

34:45

They're between a four and a five or something like that. Maybe a four. Maybe a four. But four would be the best out of anyone I know. Right.

34:51

And then the IP... ISUPK is... If GMS is a 10, the

34:56

ISUPK is probably a nine. Real close. Yeah. I mean, they carry swords, for goodness sakes. And so is there anything in between these?

35:04

There is, such as IUIC. Okay. Maybe...

35:09

The thing is with some of these groups is they can be calm and professional, but they still have the same doctrine.

35:15

So IUIC has a similar doctrine to these others, but they're much more sort of logical in how they hash it out.

35:22

That's why they're the main ones who've been doing debates. So maybe they're like a seven because you can't have a dialogue.

35:27

That's the guy who was a New York detective? Yes. Okay. Yeah. Purple and Gold. They have a rap video that just came out called

35:33

Purple Rain. Look that up. It's pretty decent, actually. It's pretty decent.

35:39

So Purple Rain, IUIC. There are other groups, you know, and here's what I see all the time is lone wolf

35:46

Facebook Israelite cats. And they'll say, well, I believe this. I believe that. And I'll say, well, who you wonder, you know?

35:53

Well, I just meet with a couple of guys, you know? I don't even know if they're really a camp. And they want you to count their opinion, but it's hard because they're not a mover and a shaker, you know?

36:00

So they maybe don't like the control that the leaders exercise over...

36:06

Because, man, I saw a fairly old video yesterday. Someone put it up on Facebook of a

36:17

BBC reporter. Have you seen that one? Where he, in 2000... No, it was 1998.

36:23

Oh, wow. And he runs into some of these guys in New York. And so he actually goes into the...

36:32

I'm trying to bring the phones up because we'll eventually... Yeah, you got a fast moving finger.

36:42

Got a fast moving finger. And it was really...

36:49

Because he met with these men who are sitting... And what was very clear to me is you have a group of men here who are controlling other people.

37:01

I mean, they just have absolute power over other people. And they very firmly told him that because of who he was,

37:09

Babylon was gonna fall and their foot was gonna be on his neck. Yeah, that's a famous phraseology is foot upon the neck.

37:17

And if you look at GMS, they have all this self -made art. And a lot of it is of them having power over white women and holding body parts of dead

37:31

Edomites with a bloody sword in their hands. Well, they had a picture of the Pope on the ground, all bloodied and stuff like that.

37:38

And this is a mural on the wall. So that's common thing. This is GMS. Other groups are not gonna have this kind of imagery, but GMS would.

37:48

So they are the most extreme. And so not all, but even some of the ones who don't will still say, look, there's no place for you in the kingdom.

37:54

So I asked someone, I said, okay, let's say my friends in Edomite, Black Messiah comes back.

38:01

What's he do? And here's what he said. Well, the worst Edomites are in America. So all the Edomites in America, which is

38:07

Babylon, they all get killed automatically. Other Edomites all over the rest of the world, some of them may not get automatically killed.

38:14

However, they immediately go into slavery in the kingdom. I said, okay, so those, isn't it better than to be an Edomite in America because those folks are automatically dead and they don't have to do slavery?

38:22

He's like, no, that's where reincarnation comes into play. Because of reincarnation, those Edomites who died are then born into Edomite families again into slavery.

38:31

And they go all the way. And I said, is there any way that an Edomite who is reincarnated in the new kingdom can ever escape and become another ethnicity?

38:40

He said, no, they're forever Edomites, forever in slavery. And there's actually a post that the

38:45

GMS has that has a guy holding chains and it has a white guy, a lady and a baby.

38:51

And they made a joke about it and said, see, we're equal opportunity slavers. We even got the baby with a chain on his neck. So reincarnation enables

38:58

Edomites to be eternal slaves forever. And this is interesting.

39:04

This is, again, I'm theorizing some of the psychology behind this. Think about all those wicked slave owners in the

39:11

South who mistreated their slaves and did all. It seems like they don't get any retribution from your perspective.

39:19

If you don't have a doctrine of hell, which they don't. So then how are those guys punished? Well, you'll say, hey, you white

39:27

Americans, you Edomites, you're gonna get punished for what you've done to us. And the white American always says, well, I wasn't there. In their mind, you were there because you're reincarnated from a previous version of the

39:39

Edomite. So the beauty of the doctrine - Is this all the groups? All of them believe in reincarnation, save GOCC.

39:47

All of them have reincarnation. Why does, obviously the question runs for what's different about GOCC along this line?

39:55

Well, my view is that GOCC is slightly more biblical. Now I'm not saying they're all there, but they did a thing where they opened, this is what they say, all their doctrines to examination when they kind of first began in some of their infancy stages and re -examined some things.

40:11

And from that, they got a little more biblical. So they actually embrace water baptism. None of the other groups do.

40:18

They embrace Gentiles part of the kingdom, which even if you read the Old Testament, you see that there, they hold onto those.

40:24

So therefore there's - A lesser place in the kingdom. Yeah, it is. It's still an ethnic hierarchy, but you're not serving as a slave.

40:31

You're serving as someone grafted in, which is nice if you're an Edomite. They are willing to let

40:37

Cornelius be Cornelius, a Gentile. The other groups can't have Cornelius being Cornelius.

40:42

They're willing to let Timothy be who he was on his dad's side, probably a Greek. They allow that.

40:48

All the other groups, Isaac eat those passages. They can't allow for the text to speak in those spots. So GeoCC is just a little, they're a little more biblical.

40:55

So the other groups mock them by calling them Christian and stuff like that. Yeah, I saw that. So our friend on Twitter here says, yes,

41:05

I'm a regular DL viewer. As for levels, Edward Machado knows far more than I do.

41:12

Okay. And then he said that GMS is unequivocally the worst. Yeah. With the cursing, the endorsement of raping children, et cetera, et cetera.

41:19

So interesting. They have something called the Rape Doctrine. Go ahead.

41:25

Oh, hell. It basically is, you can't do it now, but there's a day when we can.

41:34

Coming? Yes, in the kingdom. And so I heard one guy say, when

41:39

Christ comes back, the kingdom is instituted, which basically is a thousand years of us kicking other nations

41:45

A's and we'll basically be the S out of them during the entire span of the kingdom.

41:50

And then this is why I'm quoting this. He said, that's the gospel. That's the good news, man. And part of that is free access to women from other nations.

42:00

And so they say, well, you have rape as a certain construct in your mind. It just means to take hold of.

42:07

So you're able to take hold of without any consequence these women in the kingdom.

42:12

But they're very big on saying, but we don't advocate for that now. You can't do that now.

42:18

Don't do that now. But if you watch this GMS San Francisco clip, for example, it's so shocking.

42:24

There's little girls walking by with their moms and they'll point to them and say, hey, in the kingdom, we're going to have your daughters.

42:30

They're going to be part of our hair and we're going to get them. Again and again, they say this. That led to warfare between the

42:37

Mormons and the Missourians a long time ago. I guess people don't take it quite seriously anymore.

42:43

Because they say not yet. They say, hey, man, get it right. Not yet in the kingdom. We don't rape anybody now. You guys, they'll say you guys,

42:51

Roman Catholic church, you're the ones raping people. Don't you know, Roman Catholic? Don't you know the Jews are predispositioned to be pedophiles?

42:59

Don't you know? And they start saying, why don't you talk about that? Instead, we all know Esau is a deviant.

43:04

Why don't you talk about those sexual problems instead of us in the kingdom? Because Yahweh's ordained it. Even though there's even the idea that there's even a connection between us and Esau is just absolutely without the first bit of historical foundation.

43:17

Can I ask you a question? This is, I'm still learning on this. My understanding of the biblical record for what I can get from Obadiah is that the

43:24

Edomites' prophecy was fulfilled that no one from their house will remain. And they're essentially wiped out of the gene pool as far as a pure people group.

43:32

I don't, I'm not saying I don't understand on that. I'm still learning, but I'm trying to find out the truth about it. But it seems like those prophecies have been fulfilled that the

43:38

Edomites, like the Malachites, they don't really exist anymore. Well, there obviously were a number of people lines that were prophesied to be destroyed and were.

43:48

I mean, anyone who claims to be an Amalekite today, you know, it's like how in the world do you even begin to prove such a thing to begin with?

43:57

But, you know, you always have the, you always have the, well, the reality is some Jewish males traveled a long ways from Israel all the way down into Africa someplace.

44:13

There's a lot of intermixture like that, that takes place. But as far as a people group, that, of course, for you and I, so much of this is just so far removed from the biblical concept of the dividing wall has been broken down,

44:30

Jew and Gentile, one body, one church, which let me ask you if this is the case. When I listened to that one debate, it almost sounded like one of the groups was saying that what's in Ephesians 2 and 3, that dividing wall is just between the

44:44

Northern and Southern kingdoms. Yeah, yeah. The Northern kingdoms had been called

44:50

Gentiles. Yes, that's key. And so it's the reuniting of the house. That is so key.

44:56

All the groups, even GOCC, at key places in the biblical text, whenever it's clear to anyone, it's speaking of ethnic

45:02

Israelites and non -Israelites. Whenever that happens, they say, that is how the biblical writers are referring to Hellenized Jews.

45:12

So you come back, Acts 6, there's a word there for Hellenized Jews. Let it do its duty.

45:18

That's the word that they should employ if they're going to talk about Hellenized Jews. And they go on through these different contours and they say, no, those are

45:26

Hellenized Jews when it says Gentile in those places. But writing to the church at Ephesus, how are they going to understand these words?

45:33

I mean, this is eisegesis on a level that is, again, there's no way, it just doesn't seem like these groups have developed any kind of apologetic that would allow them to engage meaningfully with any group outside of this echo chamber of this one small area of the internet.

45:56

Well, we are in a new, we're sort of in a pioneer phase. They've encountered people coming off of a bus.

46:04

They've encountered unsuspecting pastors. They've encountered, God bless their souls, a lot of Pentecostal Wesleyan holiness

46:11

Christians who when they lose, start speaking in tongues. And so - The Muslims have run into the same guys.

46:17

There's videos of that on there. And I have charismatic tendencies. So I don't say that as a diss.

46:23

I'm just saying, okay. With all that being said, they've not ran into the brick wall of legitimate

46:29

Christian apologists yet. Because most people, first of all, they don't run into them. Second of all, they're like, who's going to take this serious?

46:36

I got to go write my paper for ETS. I don't have time for this. However, I believe

46:42

God is giving scholars and other people a heart for this. And they're starting to see, and they're saying, okay, let's pull this together.

46:48

I'll play my role, you play your part and we'll do this together. An example of that is my second reader for my project.

46:53

Usually Talbot doesn't like a non -Talbot person to be your second reader. They've let John Meade from Phoenix Seminary, the

46:58

Hebrew prop there, be my second reader. And he is really concerned about this. He wants to be part of my project. And he's been very, very helpful.

47:06

Very, very helpful. And so it'll be interesting to see what is going to happen when they start encountering people who know what they're talking about.

47:12

No one knows. So I don't know. Well, the response from last week was pretty brutal.

47:18

I'm having high hopes. I just want to be an optimist no matter what. And say some of these groups are going to maybe do an

47:25

Armstrong thing. Now, yeah, am I being a little pie in the sky? Probably a little bit. But people will leave.

47:30

That's what I'm hoping for. I hope we'll see better argumentation. I just, that's what I'm hoping for. Well, you know, yeah, believe me,

47:37

I hear you. But so far, you know,

47:44

I was very glad to hear about people who were listening. And I know those people are out there. But so many of the people that I've talked to just in the past week had no interest, zero interest whatsoever in being truthful and accurate in their representations of others.

48:01

And no, and basically the idea is I can't learn anything from you because your skin's the wrong color.

48:07

Yes. There's a lot of that. Yeah. And it's frustrating.

48:14

I mean, it's, yes, it is. I can see why a lot of people just like, which I understand, not interested.

48:20

But it's a great time to learn the fruit of the spirit, how to practice it, patience, gentleness, kindness, long suffering, joy.

48:26

You know, it's a great time for that. It's a great time to learn how to do not trade insult for insult. OK. It's a great time.

48:32

So, hey, Christians, let's jump on this and just be ready. So everyone's not called. I understand that. But a few days after our encounter, you've got folks threatening to kill you.

48:44

In a manner of speaking, yes. If I, he says, keep pushing if you want those first class tickets to the resurrection. First class tickets to the resurrection.

48:50

I wanted to type them back. I said, let me just not do that and say, thank you so much. It'll be the first time in my life I've ever had first class tickets.

48:56

But I didn't. Yeah. And the other threat was, well, yeah, peel my cap back, which means to shoot you in the head.

49:04

All right. But I mean, I mean, we, you see David Wood, you know, he's getting that stuff all the time, you know? Well, yeah.

49:11

You know, I question the wisdom sometimes of how many times David posts the stuff that he gets.

49:17

David Wood is hilarious. I hung out with him at ETS and he. Oh, believe me,

49:22

I know David. You know how rock stars act when they're like not being they're not on stage. David Wood is like the rock star of Christian apologists.

49:30

Like behind the scenes, he's just a wild man. But he's so fun to hang out with there. It's like if you get him,

49:36

Nabil and some of these, some of their other friends, like Alex, you know. I almost went with them to the, to the

49:41

Arabic festival that day when they got arrested. I almost, but I, I had a, I had a program to record.

49:46

And, but we had, we had lunch, Nabil and David and I and Nagin, we all had lunch before they went and got arrested.

49:55

And we were talking Calvinism over lunch. Yeah, they, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, I, I, I know.

50:01

But anyway, the point is, the point is if they're that angry with you for just putting us in contact with the folks

50:09

I can't imagine I'm on anybody's Christmas card list. And if they were using Christmas card list would be very, was very specific.

50:17

You just expose yourself. Yes, I know. I know that. White. I know that. I got so many things going against me here.

50:23

No such ways. But hey, let's, let's take a look at this clip before Rich collapses in the other room.

50:30

I've been trying, by the way, Rich I've been trying to bring up the phones. Are they not on? Well, I can't because the browsers in here are not flash compatible anymore and they won't let me bring it up.

50:48

Isn't that nice? Sounds like a Mac problem to me. Uh, no, it's a flash problem. Has nothing to do with, uh, with Mac, but, um.

50:56

It's always a Mac problem. I might, wait a minute. Maybe, maybe Chrome will, will jump me around it.

51:01

I don't know, but it may be a problem if, if we do take some, uh, but let's take a look at this.

51:07

We could just not take calls. How about that? What? We'll just not take calls. It's okay. Why are you, why are you so, um, why, why are you, why are you so afraid of this?

51:16

Because I'm watching YouTube chat, man. Oh, so you're, you're, you're, you're, you're kicking folks out of YouTube chat right and left.

51:24

Is that what's going on? Actually, I gave up kicking him out. Oh, it's that bad, huh?

51:31

Tell them vocab says, do not make ethnic stereotype jokes in the chat room.

51:37

Just, I'm just saying. It's not really along those lines, more along the lines of how much they don't like each other.

51:44

Oh, well. You know, and of course the, you know, the guy you're actually talking to isn't me. So therefore he's the wrong guy.

51:51

He don't know nothing, man. Don't deal with him. That's what you hear. Don't deal with him. So this video is,

51:58

I think we're going to show a clip of right. It's a, uh, little brief exposure of how they came to speak the

52:08

Hebrew they speak. They believe it's the pure, the Holy tongue, not modern day

52:13

Masoretic influenced Yiddish. Okay. Well, okay. So I heard,

52:20

I heard Yiddish was mentioned. Yeah. You know what they call

52:25

Jews when they see them on the street? Yiddiots. All right. See, they're pretty creative with their effective.

52:33

I'll, I'll take that. Yeah. Okay. All right. Okay. So, all right.

52:38

So here is, do you know which group we're looking at here?

52:44

GMS. This is GMS. Okay. I believe it's Elder Tahar is going to be doing the main speaking of the pure dialect.

52:51

All right. Based upon the paleo Hebrew and their understanding of the correct vocalization of the vowels.

52:58

And I think, and part of the clip he does Deuteronomy 6 -4. I think he does the Shema. Okay. I forget.

53:03

I got to watch it again. But then he breaks down the alphabet. Well, I'm about, I'm about a minute in here where I'm starting.

53:09

Cause it's nine minutes long. I don't want to spend all that much time on it. But let's, you got it ready to go? All right, here we go.

53:23

Which means a woman had never been touched by a man. Now, when you read in Isaiah 7 chapter 14 verse, all throughout the

53:32

Old Testament, it says the same thing. A woman that has never been touched.

53:39

But for some reason in Isaiah, that word is not there in the Hebrew. If you know how to read

53:44

Hebrew. If you have a Tanakh, a Torah. All right. You would know. The word there is

53:51

AY LAMA. Okay.

53:59

Now for those, for those who are only listening, I suppose I need to read this. Because some of this is, if you're not watching, it's sort of hard to follow it.

54:08

Now, what he was just talking about, if you're not understanding what I'm talking about, there's a, Bethula is the technical term for a virgin.

54:18

Alma is the term that is used for a young woman. It can mean virgin, depending on the context.

54:25

And certainly the Greek translation of it in Isaiah is Parthenos, which is the specific technical term for virgin.

54:33

So the Greek translation understands it to mean virgin in Isaiah 7. But it's the pronunciation that he's giving of these things that is being addressed here.

54:43

And so the, it says those bizarre pronunciations are due to their belief in a spurious dialect called

54:51

Lashawan Kadash. They hold that only the vocalization for any Hebrew character, except the ayin, is an

54:57

A sound. The ayin is pronounced like the I in pie. And that ladies and gentlemen is the closest you over here to Dr.

55:03

White rapping. That's true. That probably is the closest you'll ever get to me rapping.

55:10

Because the rest would be really bad. Proponents of Lashawan Kadash seemed to have a preference for the

55:17

Phoenician or Paleo Hebrew script, but also use what is today the standard Hebrew character.

55:23

On Saturday, 16 February 2008, the Great Millstone Group tried to openly teach the subject.

55:28

Great GMS, Great Millstone. From Revelation 18. Okay. All right. That's what GMS is standing for. Great Millstone.

55:34

Okay. Now this is the basic Hebrew alphabet. That's the first letter of the alphabet, which is a.

55:44

Oh, I got something. The next, the next, the next, uh, letter is ba. All right.

55:51

Now, if, if, if you've ever taken any Hebrew or anything like that, you may be going, wait a minute, what, what are they putting up here?

55:57

It's hard to see in the video anyways, but, um, there are various Paleo Hebrew scripts.

56:04

Hebrew is one of the Semitic languages. And so, um, if you go online and, uh,

56:10

Google Semitic alphabets, there are some really useful charts. I've actually downloaded some to my, uh,

56:16

Evernote, uh, setup, um, where you can, you can see the relatedness of the various letters and things like that.

56:26

A, um, I don't think I have one in here with me right now, but a.

56:34

That's how I, uh, fill error. Um, a, the standard, when the

56:39

King James version was translated, it was translated in 1525 Bomberg text. Today, the standard Hebrew text is called the

56:44

Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia. And it is in modern, what's called square, uh,

56:52

Hebrew script. Okay. And it is pointed. So if you, if you go to Israel today, that's the same script that will be used there, except it won't be pointed.

57:01

Uh, which was a vowel points, which is an interpretational thing generally. And so I guess by going with the paleo, this is sort of makes us a little bit more special or something.

57:13

It doesn't have the corruptive influences that modern Hebrew speakers do.

57:19

Which we got into with the Masoretes and, and Yahweh being. The reason why it's important is so you can get the name of the most high correct.

57:27

That's one of the reasons why it matters. But I, I share, I, hey, means I will be that I will be, or I am that I am.

57:33

That's the Hebrew that is, that is ego. I mean, hot own in the Greek South. And that's where they get their Ohio from for GOCC.

57:40

They think that's what they're doing with Ohio, but the other groups don't agree. What do they say? Uh, I have not fully, you've got something they won't say to you.

57:49

No, they, they will, but someone needs to make a little like chart of all the groups, their specific pronunciations of all the names.

57:54

Cause there's differences and variants and I haven't tracked them all down yet. I don't know the rationales for all their pronunciations yet, because there's differences and they make a big deal about it.

58:05

Okay. All right. Uh, I'm just keeping an eye on Twitter to see if things explode.

58:11

Sometimes there's just some interesting stuff there. Let's, let's continue on here. All what they call beat. The next is

58:18

God. The next is duh, ha, wa, za. Okay, but does he not know the names of these letters?

58:25

Dalit, Gimel, things like this, he does not know, or they just don't use the actual names of the letters. All I know is from what

58:31

I can understand is they just put an A for all the vowel sounds. But, but even when he looks at, at Dalit, he has said duh.

58:39

I don't know. I really don't know. And guh for, for Gimel. Our friend on Twitter might know the answer.

58:44

If anyone's going to know, it might be him. Okay. Yeah. He just posted something. They turned to the Paleo script to give the illusion of being ancient to their dialect created in 20th century

58:53

Harlem. Well, that's, that's true. I get it. But I just, so, so I'll just throw this question out.

58:59

We'll give the answer later. So do they not actually know what the Hebrew letters actually are?

59:06

I mean, I am, you know, some of them are difficult to, you know, they're, they're not. For me, honestly, when

59:12

I first learned Hebrew, and partly this was because I first learned Hebrew right when my daughter was, my wife was pregnant, my daughter was born.

59:20

And so I was sleep deprived and trying to learn Hebrew with sleep deprivation is not a good thing, especially carrying a really heavy seminary load.

59:28

But for me, one of the toughest things about Hebrew was the alphabet, because it's, you know,

59:37

Greek, a lot of, a lot of parallels, you know, we borrow so much from Greek and English language.

59:42

And the vocabulary, likewise, was easier in Greek because there's a lot of connections.

59:49

But in Hebrew, almost everything is a triliteral word. And trying to figure out the differences between three letter words that end up all mushing together in your sleep deprived mind was extremely difficult.

01:00:02

They claim those are the original names. Ah, ba, ga, da. Really? That's why when you hear them speak sometimes, and I'm not trying to be offensive,

01:00:13

I just don't know how to describe it. It sounds a little bit like baby babble. Yeah. Sometimes, because it has a ba -ba -ba sound sort of to it.

01:00:20

Yeah. A little bit. So they really, so they know that the actual letters are aleph, bet, gimel, dalet, but they just reject that as some kind of later whitewash?

01:00:31

That's, okay. All right, we continue on. Because when you speak in Hebrew, let's say you want to say

01:00:37

Bethlehem, that means, Bethlehem means, which is a house, and is bread, the house of bread.

01:00:48

So this character right here is, it's almost like you're ready to spit, okay?

01:00:57

Then you got, that's the first letter in the Mosiah's name, right?

01:01:04

Then you got ka, and I mentioned la, you got ma, na, sa, ay.

01:01:13

This is the only, at all these, right, this is the only character that has a different sound than any of the rest of the 22 characters, all right?

01:01:22

Because you got two sounds, two vowels. You got ah, and you got ay.

01:01:27

Once you understand ah and ay, that's the whole Hebrew language, all right? I guess they,

01:01:33

I guess they wouldn't like my, my license plate, because it's chesed, and The e sound is going to bother them.

01:01:42

Yeah. The e sound is going to bother them. But it's right there. When I first encountered GMS and I said Yeshua, they're like, oh, listen, and he's speaking that Babylonian influenced

01:01:50

Yiddish. And they said there's no e in Hebrew. And I said, well, yeah, there's not literally an e, but there's this, and so yeah.

01:01:56

Uh, okay, uh, some of them get into the idea that paleo

01:02:01

Hebrew characters are pictograms. So ba, beit means house, da, dalet means door.

01:02:10

Okay. As I said, this is a guy to ask about a lot of this, you can tell. Now, why is

01:02:16

Kofi saying, uh, the live chat on the DL is proof that no good comes of those things?

01:02:23

Am I, am I to understand that the YouTube channel right now is, is non edifying?

01:02:29

Uh, there are some people that are complaining. Uh, they want to, uh, um, straighten out both of your understandings.

01:02:37

The word painful has been used. Uh, they've been warned that no foul language will be tolerated.

01:02:44

So they're behaving themselves in that regard. Don't you know that Paul came with crude speech? By the way, that's their actual job.

01:02:51

I know. I know. I know. I want to make sure that who knows that's not literally a joke. So apparently someone by the name of a divine prospect wants to have a chat with you.

01:03:00

Oh yeah. I think I'm working on something with him. Yeah. So he says, uh, but, uh, he's the one that's complaining about how painful this is.

01:03:08

And how painfully wrong. Oh, I, I, I don't think he thinks you're right. Yeah. I don't think he thinks anything that's going on today is right.

01:03:16

So he's, he's dying for the, no, maybe that's an exaggeration, but he's a waiting with bated breath for you to say the phone lines are open.

01:03:26

Oh, announce the number. I don't want to get into the internet for three days after this, play with my kids and work on some homework and, uh, look at my action figures that I collect.

01:03:37

That's what I think I need to go do. All right. Uh, well let's just, let's at least finish this up here.

01:03:43

And then we'll, we'll, we'll see. So you got, you got, now that's where you get the word mouth.

01:03:53

Like is the mouth of, of, of God mouth of the most high.

01:03:58

Now, if you look at it, it looks like an open mouth, right? So that's a pictogram. Then you got, then you got, then you got, then you got, then you got, then you got, then you got, so that's the whole

01:04:11

Hebrew alphabet, right? Now, when you go down to the Assyrian, once you understand that the characters are a little fancier, but this is the

01:04:22

Assyrian. So you got, uh, and so forth.

01:04:28

All right. The question needs to be asked. Can any proponent of Lashawan Kaddash offer any evidence that this is true

01:04:36

Hebrew? They claim that anyone who pronounces vocalizations or vowels other than A and I are not speaking

01:04:42

Hebrew, but rather mere Yiddish. Yeah, that's weird. Let's see.

01:04:47

They'll say things like there is no E or O or U in Hebrew, but where is there evidence?

01:04:54

The reality is that no one had ever heard of Lashawan Kaddash before the ICPK started pushing it.

01:05:01

Yeah, it would be nice to be able to trace your beliefs. There he is. Lashawan Kaddash is purely from,

01:05:07

I can't see it, the imagination of high priest Arya. The reality is that Arya is the one who created

01:05:17

Lashawan Kaddash, and there are many who remember when he foisted this innovation onto the school at 1

01:05:23

West 125th Street in Harlem. This is why some former members of the ICPK now reject

01:05:28

Lashawan Kaddash. Arya's concept of real

01:05:33

Hebrew was rooted in his own ignorance of how Semitic languages work. For example, proponents of Lashawan Kaddash might claim that the vowels,

01:05:43

Nikudot, were not added to Hebrew until the time of the Masoretes. The reality is the

01:05:49

Masoretes did not introduce vowels into Hebrew, but rather diacritical marks which help signify vocalizations already employed by speakers of the language.

01:05:59

They are analogous to the harakat and nukat in Arabic. So he gets into a place in Matthew where he's saying it provides evidence against these claims.

01:06:11

Pretty interesting. So you can see he did a super bang -up job on this video, in my opinion, just the level of detail.

01:06:17

Matthew 20, I got to see this. How does Matthew 20, okay, bring it up, bring it up. This is

01:06:23

Greek text of Jesus crying the cross according to, which implies a very specific

01:06:28

Hebrew phrase. Yeah. In other words, the Greek transliteration captures the pronunciation.

01:06:35

That's true. Yeah, and it would not have, it is no different from the opening line of Psalm 22, save the fact that it employs the

01:06:44

Aramaic, went too fast, sorry. Note that Eli is pronounced

01:06:51

Eli and not Alaya, which is true. Note the final character, Yod, is pronounced

01:06:56

E, not Ya. Thus, in the first century, Hebrew characters had multiple vocalizations.

01:07:03

Vocalizations, which proponents of Sheol and Kedosh claim are incorrect. Most importantly, it shows that Jesus did not speak with Sheol and Kedosh.

01:07:11

Well, that was probably a given. The New Testament predates the time of the Masoretes by many centuries, but we can go back further still and consider the transliterations in the

01:07:21

Septuagint, a pre -Christian era translation of the Hebrew Bible into Greek. And only one criticism of the video.

01:07:31

Why keep that music? That's driving us old folks crazy. In fact, that sounds like the same musical background that the

01:07:40

Muslim guy used in the Ergen Kanner videos. That must be a...

01:07:46

I think it was so God, before the foundations of the world were laid, could give James White a chance to spit some bars.

01:07:54

I don't think so. No, I don't think so. Oh, wow. Someone else is saying online, there is a fundamental precept of linguistics that every language must have at least three vowel sounds, which sort of does make sense.

01:08:10

Yeah. Okay. Anyway, well, that's fascinating. So there... I didn't see anything about Deuteronomy 6 -4 there.

01:08:20

Oh, that was in the very beginning of the video. Oh, was it? He just gives his pronunciation of it, and it has some unorthodox pronunciation,

01:08:26

I think. Oh, okay. That's all it is. It's not... I mean, everything else is just an example. So he just turns that all into A's and I's.

01:08:34

Well, sort of. I forget. I'd have to watch it again, but it's not that big of a deal. I mean, it just shows an example of some of the unorthodox pronunciation,

01:08:42

I think. I think it was the point of why he included it. Right, okay. But I didn't get to watch the whole video before I came.

01:08:49

And truth after knowledge is always welcome to make their videos. Truth after knowledge group.

01:08:58

Some other group they're disagreeing with. Yeah. Okay.

01:09:17

That's what it was. Shema Yisrael, Eloheinu yachet, yachet yachat. Yeah. Okay. Well, look, obviously the exact...

01:09:28

And this did come up in regards to Jesus and J. This is where it sort of gets gnostic because the reality is we have no voice recordings of the ancient world.

01:09:42

And so just as I like to pick on the folks over at Logos, which

01:09:50

I pronounce Logos, it amazes me when people can actually believe that the letters that you use in your language, that somehow is going to become absolutely dependent as to your relationship with God.

01:10:06

I mean, if you get that wrong, you're out. Yeah, I saw a video where they spoke about Elder Ricar and his interaction with you.

01:10:13

And one of the men, he was from a different camp, said he's going to get some of the most severe judgment because of the name that he uses of Ahiya.

01:10:23

It's a big problem. And he's a false teacher because of it. So the Elder is... The Elder Ricar is a false teacher, according to this video by this other camp.

01:10:31

And they're not even bothered to even make reference to me because I don't matter in this.

01:10:38

Well, it depends on the Hebrew Israelite. So there's a guy from San Diego that I did a little dialogue with.

01:10:45

We talked about the Trinity, et cetera, et cetera. And his name, he goes by Guerrilla Hebrew.

01:10:50

He has some other nicknames. He's part of something called the Saqqara, which is interesting if you think about who the Saqqara were and the fact that he likes that as a name for his crew.

01:11:00

Saqqara, that group, they say, look, you have to study your opponent. And there are people, there are

01:11:07

Edomites who have studied some of these things long and they're going to have responses. So you need to be up on your game.

01:11:13

So another main thing he faulted Elder Ricar for is just not being prepared and not being ready and not knowing what

01:11:19

Esau was going to do. And he kept on saying like, you know, this isn't just another jerk off the street. This isn't just, you know...

01:11:25

And it's funny, I listened to the GeoCC response and a lady called in and said, do you know who you were talking to? And made a pretty big deal.

01:11:32

She used to be a former Christian. She used to listen to you a lot. And she said, you know, this is a big deal. So if Esau is sending

01:11:37

James White after you, that means, you know, we're really starting to make waves and the devil's getting bothered type of thing.

01:11:42

And she said, I mean, that's like the president of the United States calling you. You had James White on as far as apologetics is concerned.

01:11:49

And so he didn't really know any of that going into this. What I've discovered, this is key.

01:11:56

Calvinists are not on their radar. They just haven't run into them. They don't know what they are. So when they start talking to us, half of what they're saying, they're assumptions and stereotypes about evangelical

01:12:04

Christians. The Calvinist is like, what are you talking about? I do affirm judgment. I do affirm wrath. I do affirm chosenness.

01:12:10

I do affirm election. I do affirm predestination. I do affirm... You go through this stuff and you're like, this ain't us.

01:12:16

What are you talking about? We're not on their radar. They don't know. They do know they hate replacement. This is what they call it, theology.

01:12:23

They do know that. They do know that's something very bad. They do know that. But that's not necessarily 100 % identical with Calvinism per se, but they just haven't run into us.

01:12:32

And so what's gonna happen is, because the Lord has sovereignly chose in this time to bring up a lot of urban Christians who were reformed.

01:12:40

There are church plants all over cities. I could point to you to different ones all over Atlanta, New York, LA, et cetera, that have a lot of black reformed

01:12:49

Christians there. And they are not gonna be like the other folks they're used to be dealing with.

01:12:55

And so you start to add this up and Hebrew Israelites aren't gonna get a free pass anymore, basically, is what's gonna be happening. Because they're gonna have

01:13:00

Hebrew scholars interested in this, I think, more and more. And they're gonna have black reformed Christians who are of some of the same demographic as them, who are gonna be knowledgeable.

01:13:10

It's gonna be interesting to see what happens. And I don't wanna say this, but I think it's gonna get uglier before it gets better.

01:13:16

But we'll see. Yeah, yeah. All right, you've got to explain this to me. All right. Do you have what

01:13:23

I'm sending you right now? It was pretty hard for me, to be honest with you, to try to get past the

01:13:36

King James was a Israelite and in fact, was a black man.

01:13:45

Right, so one time I was being naughty in a message board forum and they were making that argument.

01:13:52

And I posted a picture of LeBron James. And I said, you're right, guys,

01:13:58

King James is black. And then I kept on with my naughtiness and they were arguing with me.

01:14:05

And then I put a picture of a calfskin King James leather bound Bible. I was like, look, King James does have black skin.

01:14:11

Now that's me being naughty. But one of the arguments I've heard is that his last name actually means black.

01:14:19

That's one argument I've heard. Wait a minute. You don't have any idea how many black guys there are that are named

01:14:25

James White? The funny thing was the person in the message board making the argument, their last name is white and they didn't realize it.

01:14:30

And so what I did, I posted up a picture of Clint Black. Right. The country singer who's a white man. Yeah, yeah.

01:14:37

Another argument I've heard is because King James mentions I need to protect

01:14:42

Zion or something like that. That was mentioned. Only an Israelite would say that. Why? I don't know.

01:14:48

To 47 ,000 pasty white Puritans who speak of Zion. We sing about Zion.

01:14:55

It's in the Trinity hymnal. I mean, just telling you what they say. But I showed this to some guys online and they

01:15:02

I was shown. Well, it was on Facebook in the dialogue between Christian and Hebrew Israelites.

01:15:09

And someone posted a video that specifically made the allegation that these are

01:15:16

Renaissance paintings that have been gone over.

01:15:23

Now, first of all, the Renaissance was earlier, but as it may, these were all done contemporaneously while King James was alive.

01:15:30

Right. And so you have picture after picture after picture, and then you find just this one.

01:15:38

That one woodcut and woodcuts are infamous. I have Martin Luther here. And here's a woodcut of Martin Luther.

01:15:46

Well, it looks pretty dark to me, but he's a German for crying out loud. I mean, there's no question about any of this stuff, but it's the conspiracy theory.

01:15:56

Any fact you can present can be dismissed once you buy into the conspiracy theory idea.

01:16:02

Yeah. So put yourself in the position again. Just everyone think about this for a second. Put yourself in the position to say a black

01:16:07

American. The American government in times past has pushed for sterilization on your people.

01:16:15

You were told you were going to be free after the Emancipation Proclamation, but then Jim Crow, and you just go down the list and you've been lied to, you've been conned, you've been snookered.

01:16:27

And so it becomes, in my opinion, a little easier to believe and buy theories that show secret movings behind the wheels of power.

01:16:38

And something that is anti -establishment, especially. And so there's this extra suspicion of it.

01:16:43

So there's a little more susceptibility. Then you add on top of that, blonde hair, blue eyed

01:16:48

Jesus, white pasty Jesus, Nordic looking Jesus, and all the Hollywood depictions of ancient

01:16:55

Egyptians, et cetera, et cetera. You put those together. When someone says King James was black too, it becomes not that difficult to believe because history has been whitewashed and look what they did with the biblical characters.

01:17:05

So perhaps King James too. And the part of the argument they make is they say that there was an

01:17:11

Israelite royalty in Europe at the time. They would be known as black royalty to people that didn't understand they're

01:17:18

Israelites and King James was part of it. So that's an argument they make. However, the non -Messianic Hebrew Israelites, they laugh at that idea because they don't need the

01:17:26

King James version. So they mock Hebrew Israelites who are Messianic for trying to claim that King James was black.

01:17:35

So do you or do you not want me to open the phone lines? Um, you know, it depends.

01:17:41

It's your show. I think, um, I, to me, Hebrew Israelites don't understand when they act naughty, they expose themselves because sometimes they think there's no exposure happening.

01:17:53

Sometimes they don't understand just by showing their true colors. So it'd be interesting to see what you get.

01:17:59

However, I hope we don't get any people on here making ethnic stereotypes against black culture. That's all I'm hoping for. But I have first question.

01:18:06

I'm going to take it. One thing. But are we going to, are we going to, okay, let me, let me. Do it, do it, do it.

01:18:12

Okay. 877 -753 -3341. It's toll free, 877 -753 -3341.

01:18:18

I actually managed to get into Comrex. Oh, good. So I can, I can see it. Now, first thing, um, folks, when you do call, uh, the automated attendant is going to just simply answer and I will screen your calls.

01:18:31

I'm going to get your first name and I only. If he, the subject matter is what you've been discussing.

01:18:39

Yeah. So I'm not even going to ask the subject. I'm just going to get the first name and where you're calling from. And then

01:18:44

I'm going to put you on hold. So don't debate with me. Don't try to give me a long story of what you want to talk about.

01:18:51

Just give me your name and where you're calling from. Now, my first question is this.

01:18:59

It occurred to me yesterday when James put King James VII of Scotland up on his face.

01:19:06

Sixth. Sixth of Scotland. Sixth. Okay. Yeah. Seventh and sixth. I kind of went through and looked at a bunch of them.

01:19:12

You know, not just the one. He became King James I of England. Right. Anyway, so, um, what happened to all the white guys?

01:19:19

The white guys. And these guys is thinking, I mean, there's. No, you mean what happened to all the black guys? No, there's a bunch of white guys running

01:19:25

England. Okay. When we go to war with England, there's a bunch of white guys running the place.

01:19:30

I don't. So where'd they all go? I don't know the answer to that. However, I have something I can give you that's related to that.

01:19:37

Don't you find it hard to believe that England would be involved with a slave trade with a black man on the throne? No kidding.

01:19:42

Well, that should go without saying. Exactly. Who were the slaves if the blacks were the ones that were in charge?

01:19:49

But, you know, I don't know. I don't know the answer to that. I'm sorry. Okay. My bad. Well, maybe one of the callers can answer that.

01:19:55

Yeah. And we already have one line ringing 877 -753 -3341. Um, I'd like to know, you know, where we're all wrong.

01:20:03

Obviously, look, you're, how long have you been working on this stuff?

01:20:11

It's been on my radar for 8 to 10 years. I've been getting more and more involved with the past three years. In the past year specifically,

01:20:17

I've really ramped it up. So, and your specific project with Talbot is? Overcoming the challenge of Hebrew Israelites in the inner city.

01:20:27

Okay. And that's part of a DMIN program at Talbot. J .E. Moreland. Wow. Who would have thought, right?

01:20:34

Yeah. Who would have thought? So, obviously what is needed, other than just the few encounters we're going to have, you know, the only problem is you publish something.

01:20:50

And it's sort of like when Michael Brown put out his book, A Queer Thing Happened in America. Within six months, it needed to be revised.

01:20:56

Because things are changing so fast. And as these groups mutate and divide, and it seems they're doing more dividing than joining together.

01:21:08

Yeah. There's a little bit of amoeba stuff going on. Yeah, right. It's going to make anything that's put out dated after a year.

01:21:15

I mean, about the only way to do it, it's to do it electronically. So you can be constantly. Something like that will need to be part of this whole project.

01:21:24

Yeah. So someone will probably publish something before I get something published, because I know some people already working on stuff.

01:21:29

I think you're going to start to see a little cadre, you know, of Christian apologists doing this. But right now, there's just not much out there at all.

01:21:36

It's true. It's true. But I think it's going to happen. I'm just going to be one of them. I'm going to be part of it. Just like there's many, many able -bodied apologists to the

01:21:44

Mormon people, for example. I think you're going to start to see this. We're just on the ground floor, though. Yeah, but that took years to develop.

01:21:51

It's going to take a while. Don't get me wrong. Yeah. And this is going to be trickier because the lack of printed information.

01:21:57

Right. That's going to be tricky. Yeah, it's going to be hard. Yeah, it's one thing to have a conversation with somebody on the internet, but who do they represent?

01:22:05

And how representative? It's so easy to say, well, he's all wrong. And then you make yourself a new authority.

01:22:12

That's one of the difficult things. No two ways about it. Okay. I'm looking at my chat channel now.

01:22:21

And the guy that Rich was mentioning has been quite vocal in YouTube to have you speak with him.

01:22:29

I even had to put him in timeout just letting you know. So I'm not sure who that is.

01:22:36

We have two callers online and they're both Michael. And one's from California and one's from Florida.

01:22:44

And I'm just looking at who's been on the longest. So I'll go with that. So let's talk with the Michael in California.

01:22:52

Uh, Michael, how are you? Hello, Mr. White. How are you doing? Doing good. Can you hear me clearly?

01:22:58

Yes, sir. Okay. Well, I appreciate you taking the call.

01:23:04

And I was calling regarding the Hebrew -Israelite issue. I don't claim to be a representative for the entire nation of the

01:23:11

North American Hebrew -Israelite. But I am a very much influential and notable person within that thought school.

01:23:21

And so I heard the conversation with Elder Rakar, which was, to me, a terrible representation.

01:23:28

I don't want to put myself out as an authority. But again, I want to make myself clear that neither

01:23:35

Elder Rakar or myself is an authority for the entire nation. But I would rather you speak to some that are more established as far as their longevity concerning our, you know, our plight as Hebrew -Israelites.

01:23:48

Could I ask what group you're associated with? I'm not associated with any camp.

01:23:55

Like I said, if you were to ask Reverend Rakar, Deacon Rakar, Elder Rakar, whatever he goes by, who

01:24:01

I am, he knows me. I've established a group that is called the Hebrew War Machine, which is a gathering of all the

01:24:08

North American Hebrew -Israelite groups in America. And so, again, I've worked closely with almost everybody.

01:24:15

But I'm not into the standing on the corner and the, you know, the things that you guys, the brother,

01:24:21

I think the guy that's sitting on the stool there, you know, that they brought out and exposed the other week about some of the more filthy

01:24:27

Israelites. Right. Yeah, I'm not into that. I don't do that. And there are at least a half a million of us that don't do that, that are well -studied.

01:24:37

Okay. And was there something you wanted to bring up? Yes, yes, yes.

01:24:43

I want to bring up the subject of whether you see the establishment of the

01:24:50

North American Hebrew -Israelite as something that needs to be done as relates to the propagating of right knowledge as raised from the

01:24:59

Torah all the way on to the Chahadashah. Do you see what we do as important?

01:25:06

Well, obviously, I don't accept the assertion, the foundational assertion.

01:25:12

I mean, I very firmly believe that the gospel of Jesus Christ is for all people and that the body of Christ today is made up of Jew and Gentile.

01:25:25

The description of the worship of God in the book of Revelation is that it is made up of men from every tribe, tongue, people, and nation.

01:25:35

This whole idea that the gospel is focused upon anything that is any longer ethnic at all is abhorrent to me.

01:25:47

It's a denial of the very central aspect of the fact the gospel is for all peoples and that what

01:25:54

God is doing is he's creating a church, not the Roman Catholic Church, not a church made up of white men or anything like that.

01:26:04

The reality is his gathered people are from every tribe, tongue, people, and nation, and so I just don't even buy the idea that any ethnic group today is somehow different than any other ethnic group.

01:26:20

The gospel means that we all stand before God on the exact same grounds. So I don't see any necessity of any of that stuff, no.

01:26:30

Okay, so are you a believer in the Bible? Because I know you teach it, but do you believe it?

01:26:37

I know that's a funny question. I'm sorry for the way it comes off, but you know, I'm asking these questions to gauge whether—okay, let me put it to you this way.

01:26:48

Matthew 15 and 24, there's something very specific, and we know throughout all the different translations of the scriptures that assertion has been changed.

01:26:57

Right, you know what I'm speaking of, right? I don't know what you mean by changed. Okay, Matthew 20, 15, 24.

01:27:05

Can you pull it up right quick? Uh -huh. I was sent only to lost sheep of the house of Israel.

01:27:11

Yes. Do you believe in that statement, Mr. James? Of course I do, but I also recognize that that's in Matthew 15, and that Matthew 28, at the end of the book,

01:27:23

Jesus sends his disciples into all the world. In this particular context, Jesus is still in his physical ministry.

01:27:31

The Holy Spirit has not yet come. The cross has not been accomplished. And so in Jesus' physical ministry, it was limited in this way.

01:27:39

But it's a tremendous misrepresentation of Matthew to not allow him to speak the whole story, and that is by the end of the book.

01:27:47

In fact, by the way, this is the exact argument that Muslims make to try to limit Jesus' Messiahship only to the

01:27:53

Jews to make room for Muhammad. And it's an abuse of Matthew, because by the end of the book, he makes it very clear that the gospel is to go out to the entire world, that all authority has been given to Jesus Christ, and therefore, we are his representatives to go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.

01:28:13

That's a beautiful representation of that scripture, and I don't disagree with that. But I do disagree with the perception.

01:28:20

You understand? The perception that I see is the fact that this scripture lays a premise for the coming of the

01:28:28

Messiah. The premise, base principle, is what he said, his words. I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel, speaking to, again, the lost and dispersed sheep of Israel at that time, the implied audience of that time and period.

01:28:44

Those people were in all parts of the world, even, in fact, when you speak of the disciples.

01:28:49

And when you talk about the call to go out and even into the hedges and the highway and compelled men to go, listen,

01:28:56

Peter was told to not go into, I think it was Asia or Bithynia, for a specific reason.

01:29:03

That was Paul. That was, excuse me? That was Paul. You said Peter, it was Paul. No, it was, we may have a little sticking point there, you might want to look that up.

01:29:13

Peter. You mean when the Holy Spirit told Paul not to go into certain areas? Yeah, that was the apostle

01:29:19

Paul. No, no, no, no, Mr. White. I'm speaking of Peter. It says specifically that the

01:29:24

Holy Spirit suffered him not to go because Peter desired to do what Paul was doing, to go into all of these places.

01:29:32

But again, we have a perceptional difference here. Peter was notably

01:29:37

Hebrew and sent, again, preached to Hebrews. That is an issue made plain in the

01:29:44

Scriptures with him and the Paul account. There's a difference there.

01:29:50

But even Paul, congruent with the Scripture, being sent to those that are lost, when

01:29:56

Paul goes into these other lands, these are Israelites lost, amalgamated into other cultures and being made pagan, that have been literally,

01:30:08

Mr. White, lost. So wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, Michael, Michael, Michael, are you saying that when

01:30:14

Paul goes— No, I don't want to make— No, no, no, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, I'm sorry, but you made a claim, and I'm going to challenge it.

01:30:23

Okay, I'm sorry, go ahead. All right. Go ahead, I'm sorry, I don't want to do that. Are you saying that when

01:30:28

Paul goes into Ephesus, that he is not proclaiming the message to all men, or that the only people he's trying to reach are these lost sheep of the house of Israel?

01:30:44

Yes, let me point out something to you that you may not be aware of. You should be aware of this. Diana of Ephesus, right?

01:30:51

Diana of Ephesus was the known deity of the time when Paul reaches Ephesus, right?

01:30:57

Diana is depicted as a multi -breasted god, number one, but number two, as a

01:31:04

Black deity. If you look it up, Mr. White, pull it up right now, Diana of Ephesus, look at the color picture, you will see

01:31:11

Black face, Black hands, and Black feet. You won't see a Greek deity.

01:31:17

Diana of Ephesus herself, the prime goddess of Ephesus at that time, was a

01:31:23

Black deity. And so I'm asserting, again, that the primary spiritual motive, just as it was in Greece, as it was in Egypt of the time, was those that were lost, even like the

01:31:37

Hellenized Egyptians, Mr. White. The Hellenized Jews, excuse me, not Egyptians, but the

01:31:42

Hellenized Jews. This lost sheep of Israel is not the only purpose, but I'm saying it is the prime and first motive, and this is why our gathering in North America is so important, because it gathers those who are charged with the prime objective, is to re -establish those teachings, and then to, like you said, go into the whole world.

01:32:09

But we must not skip the foundation, which is gathering those that were given the charge in the

01:32:15

Torah. He gave his statutes to Jacob, not to the other nations. Okay, Mike, I appreciate your view.

01:32:23

I just would point out to you, for example, in Acts 13, verse 48, when Paul is preaching there, the

01:32:31

Gentiles, upon hearing what Paul said, rejoiced and believed in the word of the Lord. Those Gentiles were clearly exactly what the word says.

01:32:40

They were Gentiles. And by the way, the text that you made reference to earlier is from the book of Acts as well, chapter 16.

01:32:50

They pass through the Phrygian and Galatian region, having been forbidden by the Holy Spirit to speak the word in Asia, and after they came to Mysia, they were trying to go into Bithynia, and the

01:32:59

Spirit of Jesus did not permit them, and they passed by Mysia, and they came down to Troas. That's Paul. That has nothing to do with you.

01:33:04

Now, now, listen. Okay, now, great. Now, you pointed out Gentile. Again, we are not scoping the word

01:33:11

Gentile, William. We're not scoping that by the English understanding. We're scoping that by either the

01:33:18

Hebrew or the Greek understanding. And that would not suggest to you, in any way, that would suggest to you conversion, spiritual choice.

01:33:28

And when the Bible is speaking of Gentiles in those lands, it's, again, Mr. White, asserting that these people were of this foundation, 1524

01:33:38

Matthew, the purpose of Christ coming. That's just, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, that is the exact negation of Paul's whole point, and it's a horrific misuse of Acts chapter 13.

01:33:49

Look, listen to what it says. Listen to what it says. Let's define Gentile. For so the Lord commanded us,

01:33:56

I have placed you as a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the end of the earth.

01:34:03

Now, then it says, when the Gentiles heard this. Now, they are in a Gentile area.

01:34:09

This is not in Israel. And so the only meaningful way of understanding this is non -Jewish, non -Israel people heard this promise, and they embraced faith in Jesus Christ and experienced salvation.

01:34:25

That's why Paul calls himself the apostle of the Gentiles. Taking a single text from Matthew 15, ignoring

01:34:30

Matthew chapter 28, and then trying to use that, I'm sorry, this is what's called eisegesis.

01:34:37

No, that's fine, that's fine, but I have a question I want to ask you. Real quickly, because we have a lot of people online. Okay, yeah, but I know those people would love to hear this conversation, and I'd like to—

01:34:44

Well, they may or may not. I have no earthy way of knowing. Yeah, you should poll them when

01:34:49

I get off the line here. But I want to ask you a question. You said you're a Hebrew and Greek scholar. Now, when you use the word

01:34:56

Jewish, you know that that word is a misnomer, and it has a lot to do with collusion.

01:35:02

When you speak the word Yahudi or Yahudim or Yahuda, that is a specific people.

01:35:08

It is not a conglomerate group of people that came after 1960. So what

01:35:13

I'm saying to you is, you're having a heliocentric, kind of circular thinking issue here, when

01:35:20

I'm talking about what the text implies, even to the implied audience of the time.

01:35:25

What's the precept, Michael? If I could have your email address, I would love to respectfully converse with you.

01:35:32

Michael, Michael, Michael has a question for you. What's the precept from the text, the precedent -setting text, which was clearly—

01:35:39

I'm sorry, can you start again? Yeah, what's your precept that says you can interpret Gentile in the fashion you just did?

01:35:46

You've got to have some precedent -setting text, right? You believe in precept upon precept? Absolutely. All right, what's your precept?

01:35:51

Give me your precept verse, sir. Okay, the Lord God, Yahuwah, has not given

01:35:57

His laws to any other nation, except for Jacob.

01:36:04

So you're saying— Can you find that in the Torah? You're saying that verse is what enables you to interpret

01:36:09

Gentile as a Jew with a Gentile state of mind? Sir, hold on one second.

01:36:15

You may not want to accept my answer because of your heliocentric thinking, but you can't take what

01:36:21

I just said out of the Torah. It says that the Lord God, Yahuwah, has not given

01:36:27

His laws, statutes, and commandments to any other nation. Except— Now, can you pull that page as a foundational—

01:36:34

Hold on, now, come on. No, Michael, I'm sorry, you can't take over the program. We've got other people that want to get on.

01:36:40

Let me just respond to that. I'll put you on hold a second, and we need to get to other people.

01:36:47

Thank you, Michael. Thank you for your call. The fact of the matter is that in the

01:36:52

New Covenant, God writes His law upon the hearts of all of His people, and it's not just for the

01:36:57

Jewish people, thankfully. That New Covenant goes out to all people. So Michael, thank you for your phone call today. There's another Michael, and then we have

01:37:03

Divine, which I assume is the fellow from the YouTube chat that I haven't seen, which could be interesting. Let's talk with Michael in Florida real quick.

01:37:11

Michael. Hey, how you guys doing? We're doing good. Yeah, I have a

01:37:17

YouTube channel named Faithful to God. I deal with the refutation of the Hebrew -Israelite doctrine, specifically the extremist doctrine.

01:37:26

I believe Brother Vocab met me yesterday. We were on G -Man's channel. Yeah, what up, man?

01:37:32

He's doing some good stuff. What's going on? Yeah, man, it's crazy, right? You're the one who put me on to the fact that Septuagint clearly intimates

01:37:40

Job being an Edomite. So the Faithful to God's the one who showed me that yesterday. Okay. Yeah.

01:37:46

I find it interesting that the fellow who just spoke was making all those appeals, and again, you know, what

01:37:56

Dr. White quoted in Acts 13 can be found in Isaiah 49 .6. Also, the fact that we see

01:38:03

Colossians 3 .11 calling the Scythians, you know, calling them brothers or that they could be saved.

01:38:09

Actually, the word brother doesn't appear there. It says they can be saved. And the Scythians were descendants of Japheth.

01:38:15

They were Gentiles, legitimate, natural Gentiles. You know, they were the

01:38:21

Magagites. That's how Josephus identified them. So, and ironically enough, we have their mothers, and they were white people.

01:38:28

So how did he reconcile that? You know, too many things that I find faulty in the way that he was arguing.

01:38:36

And that tends to be their sort of line of argumentation. Well, I did find it interesting that the very same argument that Muslims use, going to Matthew 15 and then forgetting about Matthew 28 would show up in this context.

01:38:50

I should have realized that. I should have thought about it. But I had not heard it used in that way. So it struck me as...

01:38:57

Well, Michael, I appreciate the work that you're doing. And keep it up. I'm glad you're listening today.

01:39:03

And we appreciate what you're doing. Yeah, thank you. And I really appreciate the fact that you guys are taking the time out to really address this.

01:39:11

You have no idea. It's been a long time, and we've been praying for Washington to come in and, you know, really hold the fort down.

01:39:18

And glory to God, because he gets all the glory. Well, we hope to be encouraging to you. Thank you, Michael. God bless you. All right, bye -bye.

01:39:24

All right, let's go to it. Let's talk to Divine from Atlanta.

01:39:31

Hi, Divine. Hello? Hello, Divine in Atlanta.

01:39:37

Can you hear me? Now I got you. Oh, okay. Shalom, shalom. How are you guys doing? Doing good. What up? That's good, that's good.

01:39:44

Yeah, I had a brief interaction with Bocat Malone online. I was trying to get something situated so I can have a dialogue, a discussion with him, so I can better convey our position than, you know, what

01:39:57

I've been hearing being disseminated either via this dialogue or other discussions in the past, and trying to give a more,

01:40:04

I guess, scholarly or more better expose in regards to conveying where we stand in regards to our position.

01:40:12

As far as, like, the Hebrew -Israelite concern, I myself subscribe to being of that particular, quote -unquote, faith, as it would have been labeled.

01:40:19

And in interfacing with Christian apologists, back in the day when I was a Christian before I became a

01:40:25

Hebrew -Israelite, I actually was watching a lot of James White's debates, and Christian apologetics was something that I was very heavy into, and I was evenly in certain classes in some churches that I was involved in back in New York.

01:40:38

And so I completely understood that if I was to transition into being a Hebrew -Israelite, there would have to be a level of Hebraic exegesis that would be conveyed in order to better appropriate our position.

01:40:49

And I see that. Unfortunately, that has not been done thus far. So I don't want to take up a lot of time on this call or from the show, but there's a couple of questions

01:40:59

I'd like to ask, I guess, to get some clarity on the subject matter. Is that okay? Uh -huh. Okay.

01:41:04

So this is to you, James White. The first question I have for you, James White, what is your doctrinal position? Are you a

01:41:10

Reformed Baptist, or are you a Calvinist, Arminianist? What is your position? I'm a

01:41:15

Reformed Baptist. A Reformed Baptist, okay. So do you subscribe to the tenets of Calvinism or not?

01:41:21

Of course. You do, okay. So the reason why I'm asking that is because if I were to have a discussion with a

01:41:28

Methodist or a Presbyterian, or let's say even a Pentecostal, and was saying, you know what, let's find out what

01:41:34

Reformed Baptists believe and were to ask them questions, do you think that they would subscribe to your particular position?

01:41:41

Well, my Presbyterian brothers would respond in the same way, because we believe the same things concerning the gospel.

01:41:48

I'm not sure what a Methodist today would say, in light of the fact the United Methodist Church as a whole has abandoned, for most, not all, but for most, a belief in the

01:41:58

Bible as the Word of God. And I don't remember what the other group that you mentioned was, but... Pentecostal, oneness.

01:42:04

Well, oh, oneness? No. Yes, Pentecostal. Well, oneness and oneness Pentecostal are not the same thing.

01:42:09

No, I know. I'm just giving you different sects in Christianity who would not subscribe to the same doctrinal tenets that you have.

01:42:18

Oh, certainly. You know, I was making that point. But Presbyterians wouldn't be—you sort of picked the wrong ones.

01:42:23

Obviously, I did not include oneness Pentecostalism within Christianity. They're not Trinitarians. Oh, see, so Trinitarian is the marker in regards to identifying a

01:42:32

Christian. A one central definitional one, yes. Okay, based on what the

01:42:38

Church Fathers established. Based on the fact that the New Testament itself says, if you have a Jesus other than the true

01:42:43

Jesus, there's no salvation in him. So if you have a Jesus who's a Michael the archangel, it's something that's absolutely definitionally different than if you recognize the biblical teaching concerning the deity of Christ.

01:42:56

Are you saying we got something wrong today? Is that what you're intimating at? That we got some stuff wrong? I didn't imply that per se yet.

01:43:02

I was trying to gauge exactly your position to try to make my point, because I hear a lot of references being made to other

01:43:09

Hebrews -like communities or other camps, and more so the extreme ones. In regards to their particular position,

01:43:16

I respect it. That's their point of view. That's fine. But I don't like the fact that that's being taken as a straw man, and it's being thrown in a generous view in regards to the

01:43:26

Hebrews -like community. Divine, we've tried to express to people that there are different groups, and it's not easy to get a map as to exactly where the groups are, and it's hard to talk to people without them saying, well, that's just that group over there.

01:43:45

So if we're talking about a movement as a whole, I think numerous times tried to be very careful to say...

01:43:53

This is a video by this camp. I'll say this does not speak for all. So I know what you're saying, because we actually don't want to do that.

01:44:01

I really can't think of any time where we've said that. In fact, I've said in prior programs, the only thing that binds all the groups together is the thesis that those who came over here from the transatlantic slave trade are the true

01:44:13

Israelites. I've actually said that's the only thesis. Everything else is essentially on the table. Okay, gotcha.

01:44:19

So that sounds like it's pretty fair, and I just want to ensure that the audience is aware of that. So that way, those of us who have a different approach are not misconstrued in regards to understanding what your premise is.

01:44:30

So my question would be for either one of you two, how do we identify who is the

01:44:35

Yehudim today? How do we know who is Jewish today? How do you identify them according to scripture or any kind of extra -biblical data?

01:44:44

Well, I think we can ask a biblical question that's similar to what you're asking, but not identical, which is, how do we know who are the offspring of Abraham?

01:44:55

Yeah, are you talking about physically or are you talking about biblically? Yeah, I do think that's an answer to your question. I'm talking about as a whole, because if we're looking at prophecy, prophecy pertains to Israelites or so -called

01:45:06

Jewish people, and I say so -called because I want to keep in line with the jargon of the Hebrew -Israelite community, in regards to Gentiles.

01:45:13

So in regards to, let's say, those who teach the Petri doctrine, that the Gentiles would be raptured, and the persecution would come upon the

01:45:22

Jews, and that there would be a second coming of Christ. First, his second coming would be the rapture, the third coming would be like a transitional,

01:45:29

Just so you know, I'll let you continue, I'm not sure, neither of us are pre -trib, so you're saying that neither of us are pre -trib either, but that teaching is out there in regards to Gentiles and Jews, in regards to prophecy.

01:45:43

So there are certain prophecies that apply to the quote -unquote Jews, and certain prophecies that apply to the quote -unquote

01:45:48

Gentiles. If we're unable to identify who is who, how do we know which prophecy is applying to what person?

01:45:55

Now we're dealing with eschatology in that sense, so how will we know what to look for to see what applies to which group if we don't have an identity market today to identify who they are?

01:46:03

Question back at you, can you show me a scripture verse where we're mandated to do that? Mandated to do what?

01:46:10

To go finding who are the ethnic sons of Israel. Could you show me a scripture verse in the

01:46:15

New Covenant where we're mandated to do that? That's part of our mission? I can give you some proof texts in reference to that.

01:46:24

I like the question to be answered first, and I'll be more than happy to answer your question. I would just like to know, how will we identify who is who today?

01:46:32

Are you saying that it does not matter who is who today? Well, the phrase, it does not matter, is different than saying there's a hierarchy of significance and importance.

01:46:43

So I'm not literally saying it does not matter, but I am saying that that's not of first importance. 1

01:46:50

Corinthians 15 tells us what's of first importance. Do you know what 1 Corinthians 15 says is of first importance?

01:46:58

Well, you're going to tell me from your interpretation. No, no, no, no, no, no. I'm going to tell you, see, this is what's challenging, and I know you're articulate and all that, but the

01:47:07

Hebrews are like blinders are so strong that a person doesn't realize it's clear and obvious, and so their priorities are all out of whack.

01:47:15

Now, I remind you brothers of the gospel I preach to you, which you received and which you stand, and by which you are being saved. If you hold fast to the word

01:47:20

I preach to you, unless you believe in vain. Remember, first of all, he said, I'm reminding you of this. And here's verse three. For I delivered to you as of first importance what

01:47:28

I also received, that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the scriptures. He goes on from there. What's of first importance according to the scripture?

01:47:36

Okay, so from what you're reading in 1 Corinthians 15 is what a proposition that's being made by Shaul and Paul in regards to Christ dying for our sins according to the scriptures.

01:47:47

Now, first and foremost, if you're looking at the epistle of Corinthians, we also have to take into account that we don't have the letters that Paul received in regards to what was being asserted, what was being established, what was being asked.

01:48:00

You think he would say in one of those letters, there's something else that's of first importance? Hold on, hold on. I'm gonna get to that.

01:48:06

All right. So according to what you quote in 1 Corinthians 15, verse three, it says that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised, and on the third day according to the scriptures, and that he appeared to Cephas and then to the twelve.

01:48:24

So now he's making a reference, number one, that he died for our sins according to the scriptures, and then he was resurrected and then appeared.

01:48:33

So the first important is not just that one clause that you're locking into, verse three. I said he goes on.

01:48:39

I just didn't... But there's other relations out of there as well. I mean, I could have read the rest, but I didn't know if that would... I said, and he goes on from there.

01:48:44

No, no, no, but see, I didn't come on saying that there's hierarchy. That's not what my question was.

01:48:50

I was trying to ask, how do we identify who was who today? Because if we are not identifying who was who today, then it's going to be very difficult for us to understand a lot of the prophetic utterances that we see that the scriptures have mentioned prospectively.

01:49:05

Okay, well, what's a more important question? Who is in Israel, or who is in Christ? You said, what is more important?

01:49:13

Who is in Israel? What is a more important question to ask? Who is in Israel? It depends on who I'm speaking with. Well, see, the fact that you would say that is mildly shocking, because who is in Christ is clearly of more importance, because being

01:49:29

Israel, ethnically, does not save anyone. So who is in Christ is definitely of more importance. It does not matter whether you're speaking to Jew or Greek what the first important thing is.

01:49:40

So my question to you is that we're looking at prophecy, more specifically

01:49:45

Zechariah, Isaiah, et cetera, Yeshayahu, Jeremiah, Yahu. And we're looking at prophecy, and prophecy that gives to, quote -unquote, people who are

01:49:56

Israel's stock, right? Because what is being taught, especially in, let's say, if we look in Christianity today, if you go to seminaries, they will tell you that the prophets only saw the mountain peaks and that the valleys covered the church ages.

01:50:11

Do you agree with that? Is that true? I'm not a dispensationalist, so I wouldn't buy into that.

01:50:16

But I would answer your question very quickly, because we've got to get to some other folks. In the book of Philippians, Paul said, beware of the dogs, beware of the evil workers, beware of the false circumcision, for we are the true circumcision, who worship in the spirit of God and glorify in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh.

01:50:36

So the apostle, in speaking to a Gentile church, said we are the true circumcision.

01:50:45

Why? Because the new covenant that was prophesied in Jeremiah chapter 31, where God writes his law upon the hearts of his people, that new covenant is made up of Jew and Gentile.

01:50:56

That's what Paul said was the mystery hidden from preceding ages, was this breaking down the dividing wall and the fact that this gospel is going to go to all the world.

01:51:03

And that's why the body of Christ is made up of men and women from every tribe, tongue, people, and nation.

01:51:11

There is no race. There is no ethnicity. There is no DNA test for the gospel.

01:51:17

And that's the central teaching of what the New Testament presents on this.

01:51:23

And so the idea that I have to run around and have a DNA kit to find out who is and who is not to fulfill some kind of prophecy, it sounds like you studied a lot of dispensationalism and things like that.

01:51:36

That's not where I'm coming from. Oh, I understand that, because they would disagree with your position, right?

01:51:42

So I understand that. Well, as far as prophetic stuff goes, maybe. Yeah, absolutely. But the point is that the gospel itself, as it is proclaimed, makes it very clear that when the apostles went out, they proclaimed to every creature that they are to repent and believe in Jesus Christ.

01:51:59

The gospel's colorblind, and the gospel is genetically blind as well. It's to go to all people.

01:52:06

That, to me, I think is one of the fundamental and foundational things, Divine. And I just want to say, we did try as best we can to make differentiation between the various groups.

01:52:16

So I appreciate the fact that you heard that, and I appreciate the fact that you've pursued this in an appropriate way.

01:52:23

We only have a couple of minutes left in the program today, so I appreciate your call. I hope you'll keep in touch with Vocab, and maybe some other things will come up in the conversation with him.

01:52:32

But you have a great day, sir. Thank you very much for calling. I appreciate it. Thank you. All right. Thank you very much. All right.

01:52:38

Let's try to get one more call in here, and let's talk to Abaya in Philadelphia.

01:52:47

Hello, Abaya. Hello. Hello, sir. Yes, sir. Good afternoon.

01:52:53

Good to talk to you again, Abaya. What's up? Good to talk to you again. Hey, what's up? I was in your hangout last night.

01:53:00

I really wanted to stay, but I couldn't. I have a couple of questions for you, pertaining to some of the things

01:53:07

I was talking about, about the Lord's people, the lost sheep. Now, from what

01:53:12

I've been hearing in this conversation, do you subscribe to Superstitionism doctrine,

01:53:20

Replacement Theology? I wish that that could be defined appropriately, but as a

01:53:27

Reformed theologian, I believe that what I just read in Philippians chapter 3 is true, and that is that we are the true circumcision who worship in the

01:53:37

Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus, but no confidence in the flesh. I do not believe that there is some different spiritual status for those who are in some physical way related to Abraham, and so I would see

01:53:54

Romans chapters, especially chapter 11, the emphasis there is upon the remnant that shall be saved, but I believe the body of Christ is the focus of God's intention and purpose today, and that the new covenant is specifically in reference to that church.

01:54:15

So if people call that, I just don't think that either replacement or supersessionism is an accurate term.

01:54:22

If you mean the blessings, if you mean the blessings that God has always had a people and that the blessings that are spoken of in the new covenant are for the church specifically, yes,

01:54:37

I do believe that. Okay. I believe you said you had quoted

01:54:42

Jeremiah 31, verses 31 through 34, and you said, Jew, Israel.

01:54:49

I will make, you said, excuse me, the Father said, I will make a new covenant with the house of Judah and with the house of Israel. So you would interpret that as not the physical people he made a covenant with, but spiritual people.

01:55:01

Well, the fulfillment, where in the New Testament is that text cited? Hebrews 8 and 8.

01:55:08

I will make a new covenant with the house of Judah and with the house of Israel. That's quoted in the book of Hebrews.

01:55:13

And what application does the writer of the Hebrews make there? I'm sorry, what application does the writer of the

01:55:20

Hebrews make? Yeah. He's explaining that the Lord God of heaven made a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah.

01:55:29

And I'm asking you, do you believe that's talking about a people other than the physical house of Israel and house of Judah?

01:55:37

It seems very clear that in the book of Hebrews, the application is made to all those who are of the faith of Jesus Christ.

01:55:46

It's not made, it's specifically not limited to a genetic relationship to Abraham.

01:55:54

That's the whole point, is that this new covenant is greater than the old. Because it has a better mediator.

01:56:03

And who is it that is in this? Well, everyone who has faith in Jesus Christ. That's the whole point of Acts 13, 48.

01:56:10

That's the whole point of Paul's explanation, Romans 3, 4, and 5, Ephesians 2 and 3, the breaking down the wall, of Acts, Matthew 28, going to the whole, you know, it's just the entire essence of the gospel message is that it is for all people.

01:56:29

I do not have to know what someone's genetics are. I only need to know that they are a fallen son or daughter of Adam.

01:56:37

And that gives me such freedom to proclaim the gospel to the whole world, that it's a beautiful thing.

01:56:45

I wasn't asking you about genetics. I'm trying to figure out if I make it, if you purchase a lottery ticket, or if a lottery ticket is given to you, and you win a hundred million dollars, you physically are the recipient of that blessing.

01:57:00

But according to your doctrines, when the Father says something pertaining to the house of Israel, it's now not pertaining to the house of Israel, it's pertaining to anyone else.

01:57:10

No, it's pertaining... No, that's not true, but I believe in fulfillment. So many of those prophecies...

01:57:17

Do you believe that the children of Israel are still physically on this earth today? Well, think about it. Genesis chapter 12 is the beginning of where this blessing is specifically mentioned.

01:57:28

And what do you have in Genesis chapter 12? All the nations of the earth we bless through you.

01:57:33

Right, but go back for a second. So do you believe that the physical children of Israel, the tribe of Reuben, the tribe of Dad, the tribe of Judah, are physically here on this earth today?

01:57:45

Well, they still have descendants, but that's no longer spiritually relevant.

01:57:52

They have descendants, but the promises have always been based upon faith.

01:57:57

They've never been based upon genetics. That's the point of Romans 9. I'm not saying they're based upon genetics.

01:58:03

No, no, no, no. And by the way, nobody knows any longer today what tribe. I mean, that's...

01:58:09

Oh, see, that's where I'm trying to stay, because I understand what you're saying concerning promise.

01:58:15

Abraham was given the promise. We all want to agree with that. Isaac was given the promise, and Jacob was given the promise.

01:58:21

They were physical people who had physical children. He also excluded physical people in Genesis 17, when he said, in Isaac shall

01:58:32

I see thee called. That's a play of Romans 9, yeah. He would make Ishmael a nation. The children of Ishmael are physically here today, but they are outside of the promises that the

01:58:43

Father gave them in Abraham. So I was trying to gauge out what you were saying, and I wanted to know, did you actually believe that the children of Israel are here?

01:58:54

And if they are, why would not they be the sole heirs of the promises as given to Abraham through Isaac and Jacob?

01:59:03

Okay, I appreciate that. We are right at the end of the program. I'd like to address that. Thank you very much. You guys have talked?

01:59:09

Yeah, I wonder if I can ask him one question. Real quick, go ahead. Hey, as long as you don't have to run off, that's fine. How do you know who is the tribe of Dan today?

01:59:19

How do you know? How did you come by that information? How do I know who the children of Israel are today? I'm being more specific, because I feel like sometimes it can get vague.

01:59:27

How do you know who is the tribe of Dan today? How do

01:59:33

I know who the tribe of Dan is? The tribe of Dan is not a tribe of Israel today. Okay.

01:59:38

How do you know who is the tribe of Benjamin today? According to the prophecies and testimony that the

01:59:45

Father gave in the Scriptures. But how do you know that those whom you call Benjamites are the

01:59:53

Benjamites described in Genesis 49? According to the prophecy and testimony...

01:59:58

What prophecy did the Benjamites fulfill that let you know they are the

02:00:04

Benjamites of Genesis 49? They went into slavery, according to the

02:00:09

Scriptures. Where does it say in Genesis 49? That that will happen. In Deuteronomy 28 and Genesis 49, it lets you know the blessings and the demeanor, according to what the

02:00:19

Father told Jacob. And also all the other prophecies. Well, Deuteronomy 28 says they'll go into slavery, into Egypt again.

02:00:28

Right. And they say America is our Egypt. Okay, what's the pre... Hold on, hold on.

02:00:34

What's the precept? There's a line of questioning here, and it's helpful. What's your precept that says America equals

02:00:40

Egypt of Deuteronomy 28, 68? What's your precept for that? Sure, sure. And this is where you have to understand...

02:00:46

What's the precept for that? Yeah, yeah. Exodus 15.

02:00:54

You know, that's not too hard. You know, out of the house of bondage.

02:01:11

I have to look that up on my phone. Are you saying whenever the Scripture says house of bondage, it equals America? Not equals.

02:01:19

I didn't say it equals America. But the Lord is saying that you will go into Egypt again, that you will go into captivity again.

02:01:26

Are the ships in Deuteronomy 28, 68 literal? One ship.

02:01:32

Yeah, did we not come into... So the ships in Deuteronomy 28, 68 are literal, but Egypt's not literal.

02:01:39

Wait a sec. Did we not, did black people or so -called black people, so -called

02:01:45

African people, not come into America on slave ships? Yeah, so do you see how right in the same literally sentence, you have literal ships and not literal is

02:01:57

Egypt. But Egypt is mentioned three times in Deuteronomy 28. Each time it mentions something about Egypt, it means actual place,

02:02:05

Egypt. So I'm asking you, what's your precept to say Deuteronomy 28, 68 equals America? America is our second

02:02:12

Egypt. Okay, precept. Give me the precept. What's the precept?

02:02:17

This is, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. I understand the precept upon precept there. And really, this is like right in front of our face.

02:02:25

And the only people that can truly spiritually bear witness to going into Egypt or slavery again with ships are the people who did it.

02:02:33

For an outsider to say that that does not apply to us, because the scripture says they would put a yoke of iron upon our neck until they have destroyed us.

02:02:43

Okay, wait, wait. Carthaginian people put off a yoke of iron which caused us to lose our nationality, our language, our culture.

02:02:52

See, we can bear witness to that. I don't have to go precept upon precept.

02:02:57

I'm a living witness because I am a descendant of that. There you shall offer yourselves for sale to your enemies as male and female slaves, but there will be no buyer.

02:03:05

Two questions. It doesn't say offer yourself, sister. It doesn't say offer yourself. It says you shall be sold unto your enemy.

02:03:13

Was there no buyer in the slave market? No. I thought there was buyers. I thought that's why they kept on kidnapping people, because there was buyers.

02:03:21

You have it totally off -center. We did not offer ourselves to go into slavery.

02:03:28

We did not volunteer ourselves as slaves. Forget about the offer part. Was there a buyer?

02:03:35

Wait, do you understand that? We did not offer ourselves in slavery in America.

02:03:40

His point is... No, wait. No, no, no. Don't do that. I'm just trying to show you what's...

02:03:45

Yes, I do. I agree. I agree with you. Kidnapping is a violation of Old Testament law and is actually punishable by death.

02:03:54

So you and I are on the same page about that. If people would have just followed, no kidnapping, it wouldn't happen.

02:04:00

I understand that that prophecy... Buyers. See, the reason why I'm pressing you on this, because you said, here's my rationale, prophecy.

02:04:06

I'm asking you how the prophecy, you turn to Deuteronomy 28 -68. Then therefore put the screws, in a sense, to Deuteronomy 28 -68.

02:04:14

See if it matches up the work you're trying to get out of it. Then you tell me I can't understand as an outsider, which sounds like a cop -out.

02:04:19

And then I'm going to specific things. Egypt is literally... No, no. One, you're using the

02:04:25

New King James Version. I have the ESV, not a New King James Version. But I could... No, the

02:04:31

New. Aren't you using the New King James Version right now with that translation? No, English Standard Version.

02:04:37

Okay. So in that interpretation, it's saying that, or it's trying to imply that the children of Israel would offer themselves to be slaves in a nation, in a place that they would go into slavery with in ships.

02:04:54

And according to what happens to the translation in the Scriptures, and what happened to us, that's not true.

02:05:01

We didn't offer ourselves. KJV... We were sold into Egypt on slavery.

02:05:07

KJV says, No man shall buy you. No man will redeem us. Wait, wait, you just told me to go to the

02:05:12

KJV, and the KJV says, No man shall buy you. And why are you using the word redeem now? Where'd that come from? The word buy, in Hebrew law, when a man is sold into slavery, that man can be bought or redeemed from the slave master and set free.

02:05:26

So I go to... In America, hold it. In America, we were sold as slaves in this country in 1865.

02:05:33

Okay. They just let us go. Okay, wait, wait, wait, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, come on. This is getting way, way, way out there.

02:05:40

There's a simple point here. I'd like to see... No, we are, but you're not hearing what's being said to you.

02:05:47

Let me just see if we can wrap this up. Uh, the Hebrew says, the

02:05:53

Hebrew says, the Hebrew says, Wa 'en konei, wa 'en konei, which means...

02:06:02

In Deuteron 2868? Yes, wa 'en konei. Let's not worry about English translations, because English wasn't around when this was written.

02:06:09

Wa 'en konei means there will be no buyer. Now, if you're saying that the ships earlier in the sentence is literal,

02:06:21

Egypt is not, I think what vocab is asking you is, how can you say this is fulfillment of prophecy when the text specifically says, wa 'en konei?

02:06:34

There is no buyer. And from my perspective, what I want to ask is, my forefathers were sold into slavery as well.

02:06:44

Oh, here we go. Oh, you shouldn't have brought that one up. Do you think that slavery has only existed amongst

02:06:54

Black people in the world? No, that's not what I'm saying. And I'm laughing because in the

02:07:00

Book of Luke, the Messiah said the tribe of Judah, the temple was going to be destroyed, the city burned to the ground.

02:07:06

Close the door. And we were going to be expelled out of our land. And the scripture says we fled into Africa.

02:07:14

So all those people from the tribe of Judah fled into Africa and were amongst the indigenous

02:07:19

African people, two different nations of people in Africa. But in the 1600s,

02:07:26

Judah, according to the prophecy, was sold into slavery. There you have it. In the 1600s? For bondmen and bondwomen.

02:07:34

And no man shall buy you, meaning as a slave, should be purchased back or redeemed from the captivity that they're in.

02:07:41

France didn't free us to say, hey, go back home. Spain didn't free us to say, hey, get these slaves out of America and take them back home.

02:07:49

See, the thing is, is you're interpreting the scripture because you're misinterpreting the scripture because you are not the recipient of the person.

02:07:58

How did Esau—hold on, this is a relevant question— how did Esau know who to snatch? How did they know how to get only

02:08:04

Israelites off the Ivory Coast? Because during the papal bull of Pope Alexander VI of Rome, Dom Diverus, and all the subsequent bulls after that, they understood where the tribe of Judah was being the recipients of the

02:08:21

Roman Empire. So Esau, then the slave traders, they knew exactly who to snatch.

02:08:27

Why would Esau want to fulfill prophecy? Well, no, no, no, no. It's not about what—let me say two things.

02:08:35

When America went into a wreck, did they not go get Saddam Hussein, and did they not know who he is?

02:08:42

So how are you going to sit here and say now that the Roman Empire— the Roman Empire, who ruled from whatever river all the way to the east, did not know in their historical records where the disperse of the tribe of Judah was?

02:08:57

And once you understand the hatred of the children of Esau toward the children of Judah, do you not understand that hatred and envy is so in -depth in them that they create doctrines to sit here and say, now you're not the children of Israel?

02:09:14

Why is—why would you put people in captivity and take the knowledge of who they are and where they come from?

02:09:20

Okay, we've gone way over time. The problem I've got here is what you're telling me is none of these texts made any sense until America was founded.

02:09:29

I mean, that's what you're telling me. The Scripture says until the times of the

02:09:35

Gentiles be fulfilled. And what people didn't see, and the wonderful mystery of my

02:09:40

God is, is that these are the end times. America is Babylon the Greek. It's also our spiritual

02:09:47

Eden. You know, I'll tell you something, Nebaiot, as a person that's taught church history, there have been people who have engaged in this abuse of the

02:09:55

Scripture in every single generation. It's been done over and over and over again.

02:10:00

I appreciate the 17 -minute phone call that we have had. My bad. Thank you for calling in today.

02:10:06

I appreciate it. Thank you very much. I'm sorry, Eric. I'm sorry, Daniel. We've gone way over time as it is.

02:10:14

Wow, man, I'll tell you. That was my fault. I said one more question. No, no, I'm not complaining.

02:10:19

I'm just simply saying we've covered a lot of ground today.

02:10:24

And I think most people are probably just weary at this point, even though if you can talk to people for eight hours,

02:10:32

I suppose you're not. Lord bless you in that. Thank you very much. I don't know how much time you've been given to be working on your project, but Lord bless you in it.

02:10:44

And, you know, pray for tomorrow. I hope it'll be a useful... I'll certainly have more background to the terminology used as our time today.

02:10:54

I appreciate it very much. Thank you for being with us. How can folks get hold of you? Just go to urbantheologianradio .com

02:11:00

or streetapologist .com. There you go. That's how you can do it. Thank you for joining us today. Tomorrow, 3 .30

02:11:07

our time, 5 .30 Eastern... No, Central. 6 .30

02:11:13

Eastern, 5 .30 Central, 3 .30... You know what it is. Just tune in. Just stay.