Amber Guyger – Racism vs. Justice

Forgiveness, the Trial Clip, and the Christian Response to Amber Guyger

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Okay, today we are going to be discussing a topic that has been in the news, some surprising feedback from folks that we have been seeing. We are going to talk about this police officer from Dallas who shot a person in his own apartment.

She thought she was in her apartment. And the really interesting thing is that the brother of this person offers forgiveness and people are upset with him. That's right. There are people who are upset with him because he's not being woke enough.

Welcome to The Wrap Report with Andrew Rapaport, where we provide biblical interpretations and applications. This is a ministry of Striving for Eternity and the Christian Podcast Community. For more content or to request a speaker for your church, go to strivingforeternity .org.

Okay, if you have not heard about this, this is a case, and there's been a number of people, and I'm going to give you some links to some podcasts for you to listen to. But a lot of people have been dealing with this issue, and I may or may not pronounce people's names right, and I have a brother that's going to correct me if I get it wrong.

So we're going to trust him a lot better than me because, well, he's probably wrong less than me. But Just Thinking Podcast, those guys did a great job going through this issue with this Dallas police officer, Amber Geyer.

She walks in. She's a 31-year-old female, white Dallas police officer at the time. She walks into, she's on the wrong floor of the apartment building. She walks in there, and she ends up shooting 26-year-old Botham Jean, and I hope I'm not mispronouncing that name.

And what you end up seeing there is as she goes and does this, she said she thought that someone broke into her apartment. She's afraid for her life. She is in uniform. She kills him. She's off the police force.

She's sentenced to 10 years in prison. And then I want to play a clip of what happened in the courtroom, and I'm going to tell you up front. I was speaking with Virgil of Just Thinking Podcast, and I told him I have a very different take than anybody else I've heard on this.

And when I told him my take on it, he was like, wow, brother, I didn't even think about it from that perspective. And so we're going to cover that. We're going to cover it with none other than the doctor himself.

The doctor is in the house prescribing truth. We're going to call him from now on Dr. Jamal Bandy, from Prescribed Truth Podcast, because that's what the doctor prescribes. It's a podcast you got to listen to.

And I'm going to link his episode on this in as well, because I think he did one of, sorry, you're going to have to listen to me brag about you for a moment. I think you did one of the most balanced views of this whole issue.

I think that you presented both sides very well. I'm sure you're going to get heat from both sides of the aisle on it, because that's the way social media is. But I basically, it was interesting, we'll get to this, but I tagged you.

I don't know if you saw it. Someone had put a post out, and I basically dropped your podcast, and I said to this person, she should really listen to your episode, because you did one of the most balanced views of this.

However, she removed my comment. I'll share my comment here. I see it. So let's get into this. I want to play a clip of what happened at this court hearing. It's three minutes long. I want to play this.

This is Botham Jean's brother when he is standing in front of Amber at the trial. Unless you've had your head in the ground, you've already seen this video. You've already heard this. But I do want to discuss this with Jamal and go through this, and then give a little bit of a different perspective.

So let me play the clip itself.

If you truly are sorry, I know I can speak for myself. I forgive you. And I know if you go to God and ask him, he will forgive you. I don't think anyone could say it. Again, I'm speaking for myself, not even bad for my family.

But I love you just like anyone else. I'm not going to say I hope you rot and die just like my brother did. But I personally want the best for you. And I wasn't going to ever say this in front of my family or anyone.

But I don't even want you to go to jail. I want the best for you. Because I know that's exactly what Botham would want you to do. And the best would be give your life to Christ. Again, I love you as a person.

And I don't wish anything bad on you. I don't know if this is possible, but can I give her a hug, please? Please?

Yes. Okay, and then he goes and gives her the hug. Now, you know, it's interesting. The actual clip, it was hard for me to find a clip that had the original because he shared the gospel with her. Now, all the media clipped that out when they did it on YouTube.

But, you know, here is a Christian man, at least professing to be, I don't know him. He claims his brother Botham, I guess is how he pronounced it. So is, you know, his family, all professing believers from what I understand.

And Jamal, I know you've been, you've kept up on this a bit more than me. I knew of the incident. But what got me here, okay, you have a Christian man offering forgiveness. And I thought, this is great.

I mean.

I mean, right. I mean, why wouldn't we? Yeah.

Christians should be, like, applauding this man. And I think back to that shooting that happened. A guy, a white guy, walked into an African American church, sat there in a midweek service for 45 minutes, and pulls out a gun and starts shooting people.

And the media made a big deal. I mean, they were having a special, but before the hearing or anything, they were going to have everyone from the church come forward. And it was a big media thing. They, I mean, anytime the media is going to not play commercials, they think this is important, right?

They're going to do a full hour or two, however long it was, to have every person come up and share with this killer what they think. And person after person after person walked up and said, Christ forgave me.

I forgive you. And the media just, I mean, after that, it was just a media blackout. No one wanted to discuss that. Right. It's almost the same thing here. Almost. Because it hasn't really been a blackout.

We haven't seen where it went silent. We had this go viral. We saw the forgiveness being offered. And then we see people going after this gentleman. Yep. And basically saying, almost as if he saw one comment, this man needs to turn in his black card.

Oh, man. Wow. And the issue that I'm seeing is that, you know, I think it was interesting the way Just Thinking Podcast titled their episode, when forgiveness isn't woke enough. That's really what it comes down to.

People feel like somehow this has to be a black on white issue or white on black issue, technically. And somehow this guy was wrong for offering forgiveness to someone.

It's like stuff like that you expect from the secular world. I was like, but it's from professing Christians that we're getting this from as well. And that's what's boggling my mind. It's like that's I mean, that's what Jesus said himself.

Like, we should be able to forgive others, their trespasses, just as our father has forgiven us. And that's what that's what Brent Jean said on the stand. He said, I've been forgiven. Like, I've been forgiven of sin.

And if you're truly sorry, I forgive you.

Yeah, he was looking to hear her say that she was remorseful, repentant. And he wanted to offer forgiveness to her. And getting up and giving a hug. And when you've watched the video, you see that there's a police officer that walks over with her, like, not sure what's going to happen there.

You know, just be safe. Okay, I understand. But the reaction I have seen against this has been mind-boggling to me. And there is a professing Christian who put out a post and basically made this an issue of justice not being served.

And basically, this post that they put out said that it's intellectually dishonest for people to say black people hate Botham's family, hate that Botham's family forgave Amber. That's not what's being lamented.

The injustice is the issue. The two cannot exist together. The two can exist together, intention albeit, but they don't exist together. But they can. I don't think people are against them forgiving as Christians.

I know I'm not. I'm against their forgiveness being leveraged to validate injustice around her sentencing, or about her sentence. And this person went on to say that she received a slap on the wrist. Now, I mean, my comment was deleted, but I've seen this on a couple people.

And it's interesting. I've been saying almost the same thing on all of them, and people are removing my comments because I had one person who put up a post and had a picture of, you know, Amber and this black woman.

And it just said, you know, is this just? And then Amber sentenced 10 years for killing an unarmed man in his own apartment. And then the black woman, who didn't say who it was, 20 years for firing warning shots.

And the question was, is this just? Now, one issue that I ended up seeing, and I posted it with both of these comments, was you cannot compare these two as if they're identical, because there's so many variables in these cases.

Right. Now, if people are going to say, is this just? And I'm going to get so much hate email for this, Jamal, what I'm about to say. I'm sure this is why my comments keep getting deleted. If you want to do a comparison as if you're just going to grab two examples and put them together and say, this is a slap on the wrist.

Well, in her case, she got 10 years in prison. And when she gets out, if she gets out, because remember, police officers don't always survive in prison. There's a bunch of criminals there that don't like police officers.

So they don't always get treated very well. So if she survives 10 years in prison, she's got no career either. That's right. She can't go work as a security guard. She starts all over. OK, so and this is supposedly a slap on the wrist.

Well, let's compare this to a different case. Now, Jamal, I know you're a little bit too young to remember this, but there was this football player, very well known OJ Simpson. He literally got away with murder.

Not once, twice. He got away with double murder. And it was because the reason the jury found him innocent was not because they thought he was innocent. It was because they were writing wrongs. It was because of the color of his skin.

They said that because police do arrest blacks or treat blacks unfairly, they were letting him off. So you want to do a comparison? Why not compare their compare against OJ Simpson? Is that going to be fair?

I mean, he literally got away with double murder.

Oh, yeah, you get some hate mail behind that one.

Because you're not supposed to point this out. But you know what? It's unfair. It would be unjust to compare OJ Simpson's trial with all that went on with with that. And what happened with Amber Geyer?

There's a lot of different variables, and it's the same as going to be with any case that you compare against.

Yeah, I've seen one. I mean, it's mean talking about her sentencing was, you know, Amber Geyer gets 10 years for shooting a black man in his own apartment. And then there's a guy, a man who served 36 years in prison for stealing $50 from a store.

And it's like, you know, I was talking to my friends about this. It's like when you look into, like you said, you can't compare the two. There's a backstory in this context of both situations. You know, when you look at the context of the case where the man who stole $50 ends up getting served in 36 years, the reality was actually he was supposed to spend life in prison.

But it wasn't his first offense. It was his fourth offense. And back then, that was in 1980, in the 1980s. Back then, the law was, because it was his fourth offense, the judge had no choice but to sentence him to life.

No other choice because of the law. But the law had changed in 2000s, but nobody retried his case. And this white judge, mind you, this is a black man who spent 36 years behind prison, but it was a white judge who saw this case and decided to take it upon himself to go out of his way to get him out of prison because he said, you know, he shouldn't be in jail for this long for stealing $50.

And you had a really interesting point on Prescribed Truth podcast that you did on this subject because you pointed out that, you know, in this case, Amber was convicted, not by the judge, but she was sentenced by her peers.

A jury of her peers.

And it was an interesting thing about that too, Andrew. Now, this is, they claim this is racial injustice, right? But you have a black judge and the jury made up of five black people, five Hispanic people, and two white people, two.

Well, here, here becomes an interesting thing, right? So you have all that, okay, with, because there it's, how could this be, as you're pointing out, how can this be racist if it's mostly African-Americans that, that sentenced her?

But this judge also got in trouble, didn't she? Oh, the judge got heaps. What did she do that got her in so much trouble?

She did the most wicked thing that anybody on the face of the earth could ever do as a judge. She not only gave Amber Giger a Bible, not only did she pray for her, not only did she read a scripture to her, but she hugged her.

Yeah, and gave the gospel to her. Yeah. So here's, here is the, this is what I think is really upsetting everybody, is that they hate the fact that Christians will forgive even what they want to put as, as racism.

I mean, I don't think, and I don't, I didn't listen to the trial, but I don't see from what I heard that she did what she did because Botham was black.

All right, yeah, I don't see that. I mean, they've, they brought out some, some text messages of hers. You know, it's funny when people, just like they do the same thing across the boards, when you do something wrong, they go and look at your history.

So they put up some text messages of hers between her and Officer Rivera and they were pretty close, but I guess they, I suppose they had an affair and everything else, but like, they put up some posts, some, some texts of hers.

It would seem as if she was making racist comments and a couple of them were very problematic. I'll be real about it. I think I mentioned on my podcast, like the text messages on the surface would seem problematic.

Like there was one text message where she, that was at a MLK celebration and I guess it was there as being on guard duty. And the text message was from one person, man, when would this be over? And then her reply was, well, MLK dies.

Oh wait, he is, you know, something like that. And so like, it's all, so supposedly that was her like mocking MLK's assassination, which makes her racist. And then another one where a friend of hers was warning her about a dog in someone's yard and the friend warned her and said, the dog is racist.

And she said, and this one, to me, this is the most problematic one. And it's like, she's like, I'm not worried about that. I am too. So if saying that she's racist too, now we could have been sarcastic.

It could have been real, but either way, even if she, and I mentioned this on my podcast, even if she is racist, even if she was racist during that time, there's no evidence to show that's conclusive to say she entered his apartment solely because he was a black man, just like you said.

Yeah. And the thing is, is that here you have a judge that is offering a Bible and they, I mean, she's being sued. I don't know if you heard that. The judge is being sued by the freedom from religion group because she, as a judge, gave this woman her personal Bible and she's not allowed to mix religion there.

So this is where we've gotten to. This is in my mind, just insanity. And there's, I want to, I'm going to end up dealing with some issues. I think that of a very different perspective when dealing with this with, from Amber's side that I want to get to.

But before we do, I want to, after this commercial, I want you and I to discuss some of the issues that you brought up on your podcast. The issues of the reaction people are having to, to what, you know, Botham's brother did by offering forgiveness.

So let's, let's do that right after this commercial break.

Ephesians chapter four, verse 25, therefore laying aside falsehood, speak truth. Each one of you with his neighbor for we are members of one another for his namesake.

What's up everybody. I'm Jamal Bandy, the host of the prescribed truth podcast, where I seek to distribute the truth that the doctor prescribes to the church and the world. Today, the Lord graciously brought me out of a cold in 2010, saved me in 2013 and 2017 prescribed truth began.

My mission has been to spread the truth of God's word while refuting dangerous lies affecting most churches and the culture at large from a biblical and reformed perspective. Join me on Sundays at 6 p .m. Eastern time for the live recording of the podcast on YouTube and download the audio version, wherever podcasts can be found, including the Christian podcast community.

If you would like to know more about prescribed truth, please visit my website at prescribed truth .com. And remember this world is full of errors, but the only thing that the doctor prescribes is truth blessings.

Well, you knew we had to promote one of our fellow Christian podcast community podcasts there. The doctor's in the house here, prescribing truth. And let's get to some of that truth because there has been a reaction against this gentleman for what he had the nerve to do.

And I want to go into this because this is where I say what we have here is the way many are viewing this as an issue of injustice. So this is, like I mentioned from the post of a friend of mine, this is something about forgiveness versus injustice, and they think that there's an injustice that occurred.

And I'm going to say if I haven't got myself enough trouble already, I'm going to get myself in more trouble right now. Get those hate mails ready, info at strivingforeternity .org. There you go. Shoot me all your hate mail.

But the reality is I believe that there are some professing Christians that make an idol of their racism. And I'm not talking white racism. There are people who are making an idol and have set up an idol of their tribalism, of their color, of their metamelanin in their skin.

And they see that before they see Christ. They read everything that comes in that they observe in life is coming through a grid of their racism, and they're seeing everything through that lens instead of seeing it through the lens of Scripture, through the lens of God's Word, through the Bible.

And this is where we have a major, major issue because I think they've set up an idol. They have made a false idol, a god of their, call it culture, call it tribe, whatever you want to call it. Okay. You were on a podcast, Jamal, with Phil and those guys over at Stop and Think About It.

I had to stop and think about it. When you have a podcast like that, it's kind of like, you know, what are we even doing here? You got to ask that question when you're... So you were with Phil and Steve and those guys.

You did an excellent job with that. And you were dealing with some of these issues. And these issues that I think we have to deal with is there is a case where some people are making this upbringing or whatever more important almost than anything.

And you brought up the issue in talking about reparations and all that. You brought up the issue I always bring up. Why don't we talk about reparations for those that supported or did nothing to stop Hitler killing all those Jewish people?

I should get... I mean, Jamal, you should be paying my education and things as reparations.

You're only going to get 1 of that coming from me.

I mean, you should be asking my forgiveness for not stepping up even though it was long before you were born, right? I mean, no one makes that argument. Because it's ridiculous. Yeah. And you brought that up when you were with the Stop and Think About It guys.

And I think that puts it in a perspective. Now, let's deal with the issues that you've been seeing, I've been seeing, a lot of us have been seeing, the reaction against him for having the nerve to give her a hug.

Why was that so wrong in so many people's eyes?

It's a couple of things I'm hearing. And one, I just got to say real quick, when you take a concept, a godly concept like forgiveness, and put black forgiveness in front of it, like black forgiveness, that's beyond the line.

You are definitely making an idol of your skin color, of your racism, of your issue. Forgiveness is forgiveness. It's not black forgiveness. It's not white forgiveness. It's not Asian forgiveness. It's forgiveness.

And so what I'm saying, what I've heard concerning Brant Jeans, wanting to forgive her and the judge, I think her name was Tammy Kemp, wanting to also share the gospel with her and feel the need to hug her.

And all this is centered around the hugs that was given. In fact, they felt like they had to hug her. I think it was like a video clip of the officer that was inside the courtroom stroking Amber's hair, or like pulling her hair to the back or whatever, just straighten her hair or whatever.

And people call that slavery conditioning, slave conditioning that's been passed down from generations. So the hug that Brant Jeans gave to Amber, the hug that Tammy Kemp gave, and the officer showing an act of kindness is all slave conditioning.

Okay, explain that for folks who, because you explained this on Stop and Think About It. And that was the first I had heard that was like, what? I mean, it just, I was like, you got to be kidding me. Because in my mind, like to be conditioned, you would have had to grow up actually in slavery or be trained, you know, like, you know, having your parents condition you from theirs.

But we've been so far removed from that. Where in the world is this coming from?

Exactly. And you're exactly right. And that's what they're trying to say. They're trying to say that these people have been subconsciously trained and conditioned to pander to white people, like to be in a position of automatically wanting to forgive white people when they do wrong and to brush it off to the side.

And I'm like, that is so insulting. I like Brent and Botham Jean's mother and father should be insulted by a statement like that. To assume that they raised their children to not be able to stand up for, stand up on their own two feet and having to just pander to people just because of their skin color.

And that's insulting for the judge as well. And for the officer, the woman officer, it's like, that's insulting. It's like, they could not just be showing an act of kindness. They could not just be being compassionate or in the stance of Tammy Kemp and Brent Jean, could they not have just been showing godly compassion, showing mercy, kindness?

Isn't that one of the fruit of the spirit? Kindness, gentleness. Like, what's the issue here?

As professing Christians, that's exactly how we'd expect them to behave, correct? Right. You know, it's like we're forgetting that they profess to be forgiven people by Christ for their sin and therefore should be forgiving others.

And they're displaying exactly that. And there's even professing Christians who are upset with them saying how somehow he's wrong. He's doing a discredit to the African-American race or to African-Americans.

It blows me away. But let's talk about this. Like, okay, my thing is Brent should not be the one they should be targeting. They should be finding those jurors and targeting them.

Well, if they're going to be saying about the injustice of the sentencing, yeah.

Yeah, because we see that's where all the uproar comes from. Because see, let's be frank about this. If she was sentenced to life, I wonder if people will still be that upset about that. If she had got life in prison or the death penalty and he forgave her and then offered to give her a hug, said the things he said, I believe he would get some pushback because of saying that he wished that she would get no jail time and saying that he wants to hug her and that's his brother's killer.

You know what I'm saying? Like, yeah, I believe he'd get some pushback, but it wouldn't be as tough. The same thing with the judge. You know what I'm saying? But the fact that she got 10 years, that is what people are most upset about.

That's what all the uproar is about. And let's be clear how much of an uproar is going on, okay? For folks who may not have heard this, there was a key witness in this trial, Joshua Brown. And he was found shot in the back today at the time of us reporting this or recording this.

So you have a key witness that was defending, from what I gather, a white woman and he's African American and that's just not right. So the question I think a lot of people are now asking is, was he killed because of his testimony in court?

So in other words, and if this is the case, we don't know yet until we find out who killed him, but if they did kill him because of his testimony, can it be said that there are a bunch of people that don't want anybody speaking out against the tribalism?

That would be a fair assumption if that's the case. Yeah. That would be a fair assumption. It is so wild because it's like...

Now it could be just an act. It could be, let's be honest, it could be someone driving down the street. They shot, they didn't know it was him. It could be a lot of different things until the facts come in.

But... That's a strong coincidence though. That's the thing. It's a strong coincidence. And so it makes people wonder. And I think that as Christians, look, I'm not going to expect unbelievers to act like they're believers, to follow God's word.

God will hold them accountable for that, not me. But what bothers me the most is seeing this from professing believers, that instead of seeing this as, this is a great act of one man offering forgiveness to someone who wronged him.

You know, in his family.

They're seeing this as an injustice. No, but it was beautiful that the wanting to display forgiveness and then him even going the extra mile and wanting to show that by giving her a hug. He had an interview on Good Morning America a couple of days after that.

And Michael Strahan was talking to him about the situation and asking him why did he feel the need to give her a hug? Why did he do that gesture? And he said that many people in murder cases like this, people say they forgive the killer, but he wanted to go beyond and wanted to actually show her that he truly meant it.

He wanted to do something different.

So it was all of him. You know, there's several cases I think of where you've had, and I don't remember all the details and names, but there was one where a police officer set up, white police officer set up an African-American guy for a crime the officer actually did.

And this guy went to jail for years and finally came clean. And the officer ended up going to jail. And they actually became friends. I know of a case where, I remember a case where there was a African-American gentleman who shot and killed a white man.

And the father not only offered forgiveness, but visited the guy all the years he was in prison. And when he got out, he came and stayed in this guy's house. And the guy actually adopted him as a son.

That's how close they had come. Now that kind of forgiveness is only going to come through Christ. Amen to that. Wow. And as Christians, this is what we are to be. We are to be about reconciliation. I mean, you know, the hatred that I am seeing in our culture, white on black hatred, black on white hatred.

I mean, it's just there. Let's be honest. There's plenty of white supremacists out there who have, we need to stop that racism as much as the black on white racism. Okay. The way you solve racism is by ending all racism.

You're never going to solve racism by allowing some racism to make up for a previous wrong. True wrongs never make a right. The reaction to a reverse racism, an attempt to correct racism of another generation, will always lead to the rising of a group that feels they're being suppressed, and they're going to rise up.

And that's why you're seeing all the white supremacists. This is not anything that anyone that studies history couldn't have predicted. And it's going to continue. But for Christians, we have to go to Ephesians chapter two.

And what you see, we see this Jew-Gentile distinction that was there in the first century. I mean, Gentiles, you know, Jews had nothing to do with Gentiles. There was a hatred there. And yet what we see Paul saying in verse 14, it says,.

For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in the flesh the dividing wall of hostility. You see, that is what Christ does. Christ breaks down that wall of hostility so that we can have reconciliation.

That's actually what he says. What Paul says in second Corinthians chapter five, he ends up saying that you and I as believers have a ministry of reconciliation. That because Christ reconciled us to himself, that should so compel us, so control us.

It says in verse 14,. For the love of Christ controls us or compels us because we have concluded this, that one died for all, therefore all have died. And he died for all that those who live might no longer live for themselves, but for him who for their sake died and was raised.

We live for Christ, not for the amount of melon in our skin. I don't live for my Jewish people. You don't live for African Americans, even though both our groups, both of our, I'm trying to think of the best word, ethnicities.

Yeah, we have suffered slavery. Now, by the way, the Jews suffered it a lot more recent, but we've both gone through generations of slavery, of abuse, of killing. But the thing is, is as Christians, we should not be sitting here and going back to those things and saying, oh no, I got to keep that wall up.

I got to, I have to have that wall of hostility. No, Christ came to demolish that wall of hostility. And that is what, as Christians, we shouldn't be looking at this and saying, oh, we need to promote a certain side.

No, the only thing we should be promoting is reconciliation with Christ. What this guy did was amazing. To get up in a courtroom and do that, you can tell, if you watch that video, you see how uncomfortable he is.

I mean, he's constantly playing with his collar. He is uncomfortable.

Yeah, he's shaking, he's getting his, you know, his hands are, he's feeling with his hands and everything. He's, the way his speech is, you could tell, like he's trying to find the words and he's maybe nervous about the, he can tell he knows the pushback doesn't come from what he's saying.

Well, he doesn't have notes either. No, he's doing this off the cuff. Yeah, everything's genuine. And he even said, I'm not speaking. He said, I'm not saying this. I said, he said, I would have said this.

He said, I wanted to say this with my parents not around or my family not around and people because he knew, like he can know how uncomfortable that makes it feel in the room. Yeah, him saying those things.

And yet he's just been like, I just want to forgive you.

And he knows his family may push back because they may want to say, I'm not going to say, I wish you were dead and rot. That's what people are expected to say. So, I want to take a different tact with this now.

After this break, I want to cover this in a different way because I think there's an aspect of this whole case that I have not heard anybody address. So, I want to deal with that just after this.

Police Exhaustion, Split-Second Decisions, and the Need for Better Policy

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