Responding to JD Greear

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We are live now on the conversations that matter podcast. I'm your host John Harris It is a wonderful beautiful day where I am and it's killing me a little

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I'm inside And I'm hoping after this I'll be able to go outside a little bit and I hope it's wonderful and beautiful where you are

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I feel like that Heat of the summer that comes at least where I am in July And sometimes it'll last till the first or second week of August and you know what

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I'm talking about It's like a hundred degrees or at least in the 90s and the humidity is way up There's this week that you get past it and it doesn't return and It I think that's this week.

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I think this is the week that it's more dry crisp clear But still beautiful still hitting the 80 degrees.

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It's just I Don't know if there's a more wonderful time of year fall is great when you get a warm day in the fall spring is great

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But this like end of summer thing It is it's just wonderful. I don't know what to say.

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It's great for fishing. It's great for hiking. It's great for everything. So I hope you're enjoying it

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I hope you have some time off and you can enjoy I guess what Labor Day weekend's coming up and not that I celebrate that but some of you get off so Anyway, I want to talk about the

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J .D. Greer stuff and some of you seem to know already what that is I didn't even have to title this particular video

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I didn't have to be specific. I didn't have to say Defending Megan Basham's book Shepherd for Sale against J .D.

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Greer's attacks I just figured responding to J .D. Greer was enough. You knew the context because when

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I am saying it and that's gonna come up a little bit in this critique I have for J .D. Greer because When you say things the context in which you say them where you're saying them who your audience is

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That's all important that all factors into Why you choose the words that you say for the occasion, right and that's what we're supposed to do as Christians is

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We want to choose our words wisely according to edification for the need of the moment.

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That's what scripture says There's a need in the moment. So J .D. Greer has chosen words to say at particular moments that have been less than helpful and Moved the needle certainly in a more leftward direction and now he's been called on the carpet for it

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He's been called on carpet for it for years, but and he's responded numerous times, but this is I think

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Maybe the longest most detailed response and it's because I think Megan Basham's book

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Shepherds for Sales on the New York Times Bestsellers list she was on Fox and Friends on Sunday. She's been on Tucker Carlson before she was on Charlie Kirk She was on Ben Shapiro She's going to places that I don't know how many but at least enough people in J .D.

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Greer's Church Summit Church in the Durham area are they're also going to be listening to some of these shows and they're gonna hear these shows and they're they might hear their

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Pastor's name come up or if they buy the book, they're gonna hear their pastor's name So it's in that spirit that I am coming to you to explain why

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J .D. Greer is saying what he's saying I don't know if we'll read every word. I would like to but his response is kind of long and there's a lot of fluff

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In it. So I've highlighted the areas I think that are important that where he's actually responding to something and that's what we're gonna be

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Responding to by the way, I just want to say Before I get into that. I I probably should have had it pulled up I'm gonna pull it up now, but there is a retreat coming up and you should all be aware of it

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See if I can pull it up here Well, there's J .D. Greer's response. So the retreat you can go to Fundamentals Conference comm it's a men's retreat and sign up there.

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Dr. Richard Vargas Who's the president of the IFC a and myself 80

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Robles my father Scott Harris Edwin Ramirez is gonna be there as well By the way, Scott Harris my father

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He he's a pastor and I put out a clip of him calling out the Democrats from last Sunday.

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If people are curious Where I got some of my views and why I say things the way

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I do it might be an interesting Video for you to watch it's on my ex account at John Harris 1989

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Someone actually two people Complimented his mustache and one person said that I should have that same mustache But I said if I did my wife would probably have a problem

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So that's the only thing keeping me and preventing me. I would actually have a longer I would have a handle or mustache if it was up to me

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But I know you don't see a lot of like academics with handle or mustaches, but that's I don't know what it is

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I just think it looks kind of cool But maybe maybe for the men's retreat Maybe that will be my thing if you come to the men's retreat the fundamentals conference fundamentals conference calm

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If you sign up, then I will endeavor my best to grow a handlebar mustache for that weekend

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How's that? My wife doesn't have to be around me. So, all right. Well, let's get into JD Greer's response to Megan Basham.

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Some of you haven't read Megan Basham's book and that's fine JD Greer actually takes some of the quotes from her book and I have the

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Kindle version of her book pulled up here if we need to go into any more detail and He responds to them piece by piece and I think his responses are pathetic and adequate and So often miss the mark.

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He's not really responding to what she says. He just doesn't like what she said so that's what we're gonna talk about a little bit today and Some people on X seem to think that I'm out to lunch thinking that JD Greer's Response is inadequate.

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And I think it's ridiculous, but I do need to explain this I suppose to some people especially if you haven't been paying attention for the last few years

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You you definitely need to get up to speed and so this will help you I can't cover everything

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But this will get you up to speed at least a little bit So it's called an open response to Megan Basham's shepherds for sale

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August 12th, which was yesterday 2024 by JD Greer He starts off and I don't even know

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It's so much fluff. I'm not even gonna read most of it, but he talks about how he was considering whether he should respond and Then he tries to get into what

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Basham is trying to accomplish and so his view of what Basham is doing some of the things he appreciates about Basham some of the things he doesn't appreciate and He thinks that he says

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I Point out. Let's see One or two errors I point out do not radically change the larger point

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Basham is trying to make I don't point out these kinds of errors to be pendant pedantic but because journalistic integrity is essentially essential to long -term credibility and both

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Basham and Harper Collins have failed in their professional duties and Due diligence and and unfortunately a bunch of people agree with him that shouldn't

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I even notice? Michael O 'Fallon from sovereign nations this morning was he was saying something along these same lines that he couldn't believe the errors at Harper Collins allowed to be published in this book and there's just Some people that you wouldn't expect

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I suppose to be saying things negative about the book who are I read the book I've looked at Gavin Ortlund's response and I don't even know

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I can't keep track of everyone who's responded. There's been a lot more on X It's been a war zone there Everything Neil Shen be said,

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I mean I've looked at all these things and it's a big nothing burger in my mind most of it comes down to I don't like what you said,

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I don't like the characterization and You're saying this and it's your opinion, you know

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You're you're summarizing something and I don't think your summary is accurate because I say this over here and it doesn't it doesn't fit your summary and Megan Basham generally acknowledges these things.

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She's trying to pin down people who Sometimes talk out of both sides of their mouth think about a politician

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How would you approach most politicians if you're writing a book and you're trying to? Talk about what they're doing what they say how they're saying it what it's accomplishing

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You have to be reading a lot of what they say and you have to understand where what how the effect what they say has

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On the audience they're speaking to and where it pushes the needle. I think Megan Basham has good instincts on this I think she does a pretty good job in her book

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I pointed out or at least acknowledged where there were two places where there were basically Typos that people have really wanted to read motivations into that that happens with publishing sometimes and that kind of things

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Unfortunate, but it really there's nothing substantive in those particular Critiques the critiques that are substantive or at least alleged that they're substantive are not they they don't

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There are differences of opinion most of the time I don't like what you said and how you said it and how you characterize what

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I was trying to do And I mean Gavin Ortlund's is a classic because Gavin Ortlund is taking sentences that she said in summary about a whole movement and he's saying you're applying this to me and and And I say over here that I people should do their due diligence and homework on the topic of climate change

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And it's like well Megan didn't ever say you didn't say that But your whole rest of your video where you talk about climate change

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You are insinuating that the people who are against the majority or prevailing narrative are

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Somehow not doing their homework and that they're buying into conspiracies You say all these things and then at the end, you know, there's little quotes where you say well

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You just need to do your homework That doesn't override everything else you said and and I think JD Greer gets into some of this as well

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So that's that's my where I'm coming from. That's my bias. I've been obviously tracking these things for years now

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In fact, we're gonna go back to the beginning We're going back to the ground floor in this particular video about Greer because the first thing he brings up is

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Something that I'm pretty sure I was looking back I'm pretty sure it was my video which was a week after he preached the sermon on Homosexuality on well who he talks about homosexuality

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The fall affects us all it was a week later that I made a response and that response had almost 20 ,000 views and It's because I had a friend of mine reach out and say hey, this is a great

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Sermon by JD Greer on homosexuality and I listened to it and I thought no, it's not

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No, it's not a good sermon and that what was inspiring. But that's what inspired me to respond to it

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I don't think there were any critiques I could be wrong But I'm remembering that I was doing this from scratch there weren't critiques at the time of that particular sermon and now

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It seems like lots of people are saying yeah the JD Greer who says who whispers about sexual sin

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Well, that was something that I pointed out when I was critiquing his sermon. I was like, this is crazy Why would he say this and but that wasn't the only crate?

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There's a bunch of things in that sermon that were off that were wrong that were bad and I'm not gonna go over all Of them today. I would just point you to my video

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Why the fall affects us all? critique that I made from 2019 I guess it was a week after he preached it and And so we're going back to the the ground floor today.

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I guess we're covering a lot of territory as we go All right. Let me just read what he says and then we'll respond.

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We're gonna start a course with that particular topic He's quotes Megan Basham and shepherds for sale

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She says though he meaning JD Greer reversed his position after two years of pushback The North Carolina megachurch pastor

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JD Greer while president of the SBC encouraged his congregation to minimize speaking about sexual sins like homosexuality saying they should not shout about what the

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Bible whispers about as if the destruction of Sodom and Paul's description Romans 1 of The progression of societal depravity were mere murmurs and then

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JD Greer responds to this And he said the sermon in question did not minimize speaking about the sin of homosexuality

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Mute homosexuality sinfulness or encourage our congregation to do so now. I want to play a little clip.

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This is from him Speaking at an ERLC event and then the last part I believe is from this sermon

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Why the fall affects us all or how the fall affects us all I can't remember The sermon in question here and I'm just gonna play this and then

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I'll provide Some commentary and I'll look at the transcript of the sermon, but I want to play this first presenting churches

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Will be known as the friends of the LGBTQ community. I think the question to us is church leaders

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Have you drawn the gay and lesbian community close? Are you an advocate against?

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Abuse injustice and discrimination on their behalf if not what you would do for a friend I do want to apologize to the gay and lesbian community on behalf of my community and me for not standing up against abuse and discrimination directed towards you

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That was wrong. And we need your forgiveness Stand up and be among the fiercest advocates for the preservation of the dignity and the rights of LGBT people

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So at the summit church, okay. All right, that's another clip for later. So There you have

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JD Greer Calling on Christians Southern Baptists and then members of this congregation to be advocates fierce advocates for the dignity and the rights of the

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LGBT community And apologizing for the way his community meaning Christians or Southern Baptists What I don't know which one specifically but how they you know failed to do this and that's

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JD Greer And he says these guys you don't like the problem with Greer. Is there so many? References and so many sources you have to narrow it down to which one you want to expose because he says this kind of thing unfortunately

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Too too often. So there's two examples for you right there Let's talk about let's get into his sermon a little bit.

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Let's see here. Where do I want to start? So he

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He tried all right, so I'll start here. I guess let me finish what he says about this

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He says I was attempting to show that whenever Jesus dealt with someone in sexual sin in the Gospels He spoke to them up close with tenderness as individuals with stories even as he made clear to them sin to them

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So that's what he was trying to say with the whole whispers thing. I Apologized for using the use the word use in his blog post in his podcast so he looked at his blog post and I looked at his podcast that he references and in his blog post where he talks about this sermon

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He said I said we should look more fearfully at our own prideful greedy hearts than we do haughtily at the sexual dysfunction of others

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I was in no way trying to imply that sexual ethics are muted in Scripture that we should not speak clearly about them or we

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Should be embarrassed by them. He said Tom Askew and a few other pastors tried to trap him in his words

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Nearly two years ago and it when was this written? This was 2021 so I was before that.

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Okay. I so my critique I guess was before this and He makes out like the people in his congregation they weren't confused by this it's

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Tom Askew and these bad actors I said, I'd invite you to watch the whole message assuming the best. You've got to assume the best about each other

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Okay, so that I don't see an apology in there which he claims there is and then in this one

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He says he regrets that the word choice It was a clumsy way of talking and making his point and his point was that Jesus seemed to save his loudest thunder for religious hypocrites and he says

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There's failures in communication and for any confusion that my wording may have caused I do sincerely apologize There's there's the apology right there

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So so again, he's not really taking responsibility completely here either except for you're confused

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You're confused and I'm taking responsibility for your confusion, but you're misreading me. You don't that's not what

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I meant What I meant is that Jesus was trying to save his loudest thunder for religious hypocrites

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Now, let's go to the sermon in question. And there's really way too much to talk about in the sermon

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I've highlighted way too much here, too But we said he says we in the church haven't done a great job talking about homosexuality, right

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And he says Paul is going to show us that they are we that and this is a Romans chapter 1

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Which is not talking about Christians and he botches the entire text to say that this is talking about Christians And so well that'll turn it on its head right and then he goes in some people it manifests itself

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Meaning depravity in envy pride unbridled personal ambitions out -of -control temper Maybe an inability to control your impulses for food a propensity towards doubt worry or depression

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You can think of homosexuality as an infliction. That is not just a sinful choice For most gay people they feel they didn't choose those desires

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So Romans 1 is making a very clear argument and it does talk it is clear that it is choosing there is a choice being made here to worship creation rather than the

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Creator and then there's a you go into depravity and the first example used as homosexuality that signifies the the

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I guess falling to depravity, you know going down into it the Sliding be as the result of this false worship and rejecting

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God and he doesn't present it that way in this sermon as a dissent He presents it as it's just morally equivalent to things like gluttony, you know impulses for food

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You know, it's the same kind of level. So he flattens it ignores Paul's Argument takes out the choice element and then he in addition to that says that Paul has

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Christians in mind or insinuates that He says every Christian I know struggling with that the SSA same -sex attraction is first dealing with an unanswered prayer so then he says that he frames it so that Christians who are gay feel like they didn't choose those desires and people with same -sex attraction are

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Many of them are Doing so at least the ones he knows be they're struggling with it and that they have unanswered prayers so, you know think of them as vulnerable as victims is

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It just think about Romans one of this context though, do you find any of this in Romans 1 you don't This is why

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I say never listen to JD Greer Like the thing is to I gotta understand I was a student at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary, which is in Raleigh area

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It's in Wake Forest and this church is in Durham and a lot of students went to JD Greer's Church. It was known

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It was just a known thing that Greer These are the kinds of sermons he preached you could almost pick one out of a hat and know that it's not going to be necessarily a solid it's not certainly not going to be like a

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Solid exegetical type sermon that maybe there's exceptions, but it's just that's that's what I remember Before all this right and so when someone sent me this particular sermon from 2019 and said

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John This is great. And I had just started the podcast and I decided to critique it It was like me picking a sermon out of a hat.

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It wasn't like I thought this was a uniquely terrible sermon I thought it was terrible. But this is just JD Greer.

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There's nothing to me that was Mind -blowing about it right but then since I did that this has become one of the

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Big sermons people point to to say JD Greer is compromised Which I find interesting. I don't know.

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I don't listen to his sermons. So I don't know there's probably a lot of other examples, but So anyway moving on with JD Greer's sermon when the fall affects us all

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I'm just gonna briefly try to go through this as shortly as I possibly can He's he quotes, let's see here

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He says question. Do you think of deceit and boasting as equally depraved greed? How about rebellious attitudes towards your parents?

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They are But he still doesn't acknowledge the dissent down the whole argument Paul's making and that's what homosexuality represents and It's got to be equally depraved

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So he's really trying to get Christians to see all these sins as equally depraved and it is that context where he says

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Jen Wilkins says we should whisper about what got the Bible whispers about and shout about what it shouts about the Bible appears more to Whisper on sexual sin compared to it shouts about materialism and religious pride

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So when he comes later years later and says I was just saying that Jesus saved his thunder for the Pharisees Not exactly look at the context here.

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He's saying that the Bible prioritizes materialism and religious pride war because You he thinks you can find more

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Bible verses about it, so that's the argument that he's making he literally is making an argument that homosexuality is not as That you shouldn't

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Treat it in the same way You use the softer more kid gloves when you treat that because the

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Bible doesn't quote it as often except when you do see the Bible Talking about it. I don't know like you see

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Sodom and Gomorrah being destroyed. So it's like When when the

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Bible talks about it it talks about it in very very You know strict and hard to hear

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For our culture tones. It's not like it's being treating it with kid gloves

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It's just that you know, how often does the Bible talk about cannibalism? Oh my goodness. It must whisper about that Well, there's a lot of really depraved things that are unique that aren't the general sins that everyone's you know

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More large groups of people tend to have they're not going to be mentioned as often

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It's just the Bible assumes the whole Bible that marriage is between men and women not men and men or women and women

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So it's like it's like saying glutens not mentioned in the gluten -free cookbook, right? Cuz it's the gluten -free cookbook.

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It just assumes off the top that that would be wrong So this is disingenuous of JD Greer. It's a misrepresentation.

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I don't even think it's slick It's just if you know the sources It's just a dumb thing for him to say Like you can go back and look at the transcript that he's asking us to look at and see what he actually said

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He says Paul never said that it was hard for the same -sex attracted to go to heaven He said it was hard for the material or you rich and those who thought they were religiously good.

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Okay. Yeah, so if you Bring up this category that the Bible doesn't really recognize of the same -sex attracted

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I mean, it doesn't is it hard for the pet of the people who are attracted to little boys to get to heaven? Is it hard for the people who want to eat other people to get

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I mean, this is stupid, right? This is like dumb one of the reasons he says that we stand against any discrimination or bullying and will count ourselves among the fiercest advocates for dignity and Rights to be extended to this community is because we recognize gay and lesbian people are just like us

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Made in the image of God and deserving of dignity and our respect. They are not them. They are we so again we know we identify and stand in solidarity and Without defining what you mean by that that really sounds to the ear of someone who's walking and who's progressive and he says later

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By the way in his defense against Basham that said I believe it's that document I was just reading it 70 % of the people in his area are

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Democrats So you're speaking in an area that you admit 70 % are Democrats and you're gonna say this in a sermon

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And what do you think they're going to hear when they hear that? We need to be the fiercest advocates for dignity and rights to be extended to be extended not

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You know, like it's not like the rights that they share in common with all of us that they need to secure those or defend

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Those it's not even that that would that would even be a problem in my mind Just because of the context that did you should probably qualify it more with like,

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I don't know saying You know, they should be able to so they should have equality before the law basically, but He goes a step farther and says rights to be extended to this community

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Which makes it sound like they're they're missing out on some there's some there's some rights. They're not having Homosexuality does send you does not send you to hell.

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He says this in a sermon homosexuality does not send you to hell Here's how I know being heterosexual doesn't send you to heaven.

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Oh, yeah, that's really really profound JD So I just wanted to point out a few of those things

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It's this is We can just throw this out to be honest with you this whole thing like Megan Basham Could have gone scorched earth and could have gone to town with JD Greer sermon and she chose not to she was whispering about his sermon if you ask me she could have shouted about it and really get given him a hard time and He is probably fortunate that she did not because she really could have gone to town on it

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So, let's get to the next one I'll take some questions first between these things anyone have questions out there and Then we'll get to the next section of this

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I'm seeing a lot of people in the chat group The pastor Michael Grant Greer said that all true churches will be friends of the

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LGBTQ community He said this at a conference held by Democrat operative Russell Moore at the ERL see Doug Meeks, so Many how many times does he have to apologize on his communication when you don't have a substantive argument?

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You just play the hits I guess. I Don't know if that's directed at me or directed at JD.

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I mean, how many times does he have to apologize? He never apologized. That's part of the problem. He never actually apologized. He apologized for our misunderstanding and his lack of communicating that led to Misunderstanding of some who aren't in his church who later on used it as a political weapon against him and had nefarious motives real apology there

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JD Doug Meeks for $5. He encourages his congregation to minimize speaking about homosexual sin.

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Where did he do that? The claim is still false Well, I just went over it in his like so I Don't know is the question.

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Where did he use the specific word? I Congregation you must minimize speaking about homosexuality

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Like he doesn't have to say those exact words. I can summarize and characterize his sermon and The words

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I just brought to you that we just talked about from the transcript all lead you down that line It shows you that he's minimizing this sin trying to bring it into He's ignoring

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Paul's argument about it being a indicative of a descent into depravity He's trying to convince other people in his congregation

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Christians that this is this is about us and all these other things like gluttony These are on an equal plane

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They're just as bad and that homosexuality doesn't even send you to hell and it's in this whole context that he says

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We ought to whisper about it and the Bible whispers about this But hey, it shouts about materialism.

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I mean, that's exactly how else would you characterize that Doug? How else would you characterize it? Okay Yes, Doug we've went yes,

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I bet JD Greer did say this I've acknowledged multiple times my use of the word whisper We just read this to make that point was confusing and could be misleading.

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I apologize for the word use in the blog post And in this podcast, yes, we we've just gone over all of this and I've explained that no, he actually has bad teaching his sermon was

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Objectively wrong. It wasn't biblical. It led people down the wrong path he needs to apologize if he's gonna do it for the substance of what he said not just Confusion or you know

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I could have chosen my words better and this is what I meant and these people with nefarious motives are trying to Use it against me years later.

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No, I was out the gate with within a week It was about a week later. I think that I was critiquing this sermon.

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It might have been less than a week and Like I said, it got up to like it's always 20 ,000 views

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I'd probably more than that with the audio podcasts and everything. This was out the gate being talked about and This wasn't later.

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This wasn't people with just nefarious political motives that no There's people with genuine concerns and just say

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I blew it. I blew it guys this I messed up Paul Paul wasn't making the argument. I said he was making

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All right that I don't know if I have much more to say about that. That's that's about it I guess on that particular sermon, but Megan Basham in my opinion, you know, look at her words here.

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Even the ones JD quotes here She's vindicated on this. She is totally vindicated on this.

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All right number two race the SBC and black lives matter she takes So I'll just read it

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Megan Basham. This is the the section She he wants to respond to in August 2020 Southern Baptist Convention president

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Greer Took part in a panel discussion on the subject of racism has become rare and mainstream Evangelicalism to hear in -depth theological teaching megachurch pastors of Greer's variety

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We're not suits and ties But checkered sport shirts and sleeves rolled up at the wrist and maybe a fleece

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Patagonia vest in the fall Which is funny to me that she does that's the journalist side. I don't ever say these kinds of things

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It's not really academic writing. That's journalist writing, but it does add flavor doesn't it and he does he does dress that way

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I'd always thought it was weird a little bit the way he dresses his wardrobe is like It's it reminds me of some politicians with the best thing

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Anyway, their sermon style tends to be minimally informal rarely taxing attendees attention by delving into theological terms

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Like soteriology or hypostatic. This is a really good point, by the way And I don't think I ever made this point until I heard

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Megan make it She says yet in recent years a new form of spiritual jargon words like hegemony and cultural representation has peppered their preaching

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Now this means more than one person. It's not just Greer. She's talking about she's saying that there's a group of pastors

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Who want to use these words that generally they don't use sophisticated theological words. So why are they using these words?

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That's a good question out of the pulpit many have taken up the same social activism that saw New York City Hall removed

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Thomas Jefferson's School boards across the country try to disassociate it with like Patrick Henry and Francis Scott Key.

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I'll add to this by the way Yes, and people like Robert E Lee and Stonewall Jackson. I know you're not well she doesn't mention

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Robert E Lee in the next paragraph, but Yeah in Christopher Columbus, you know, too I know they're not quite as protected as as George Washington and Francis Scott Key, but But in Abraham Lincoln to Abraham Lincoln was removed to several places

29:09

Boston removed him. I think Chicago National outlet she says like PBS and Washington Post have fawned over Greer as an anti -racist reformer among his highest priorities for the

29:17

SBC in 2020 retiring the 150 year old presidential gavel that had belonged to Robert E Lee's chaplain and founder of his first Southern Baptist seminary

29:24

John Brotis a man Charles Spurgeon once called the greatest of living preachers I think what she means

29:30

I think he worked on he was one of the chaplains in Rob in the army of Northern, Virginia I guess so it wasn't

29:35

Robert E Lee's personal chaplain As far as I know Brotis his reputation or repudiation of slavery in 1882

29:42

He called the impossible to justify and denounce it as a product of greed and his preaching to his fellow white Southerners You look with incredulous contempt or horror upon the worship of many

29:50

Negroes perchance The Angels have a rather poor opinion of your worship We're not enough for Greer to retain the artifact the same

29:57

Greer also made a heavy push to change the SBC's name to Great Commission Baptist as part of what the media called the media listen the media called a racial reckoning that would give the denomination a global Identity now

30:09

Greer wants to respond to this. I don't when I read this I was like, how do you respond? Like I covered all this stuff.

30:15

I remember this that's what happened. And if anything she's being nice Here's how great response Contrary to Basham's claim.

30:22

I didn't make a heavy push to change the SBC's name Well, I look back. I was like wait to bash him say that I don't you know

30:29

If we want to play the game gears playing did Basham use the term heavy push, you know that Greer specifically made a heavy push that same year

30:37

Greer also made a heavy push to change the SBC's name to Great Commission Baptist as part of what the media Called a wreck a racial record reckoning that would give the denomination a global identity

30:48

He goes I didn't make a heavy push to change this name Well, Megan says he made a heavy push and the media characterized it as a racial reckoning

30:58

Greer says this was not the first time in SBC history. It's been done. So what how can he justify that?

31:04

He didn't make a heavy. Well, it's this is I'm not the first one in this line of people to do this Well, he's right about that This has been talked about that SBC changing its name and he goes through some of the history of it

31:12

He says I didn't stop using the official name of the SBC completely So he's using

31:18

These little things Well, you know, I I didn't make a heavy push. I other people wanted to change the name of the

31:24

SBC I didn't stop using the official name of the SBC. Well Let's look at the record We'll start here pastor

31:35

Marshall Blalock of First Baptist Charleston, South Carolina the oldest

31:40

Baptist Church in the south served on the task force in 2012 and Was one of the first pastors to speak publicly about using the name

31:47

Great Commission Baptist he said in 2012 article that the name was considered and eventually approved for three main reasons for the sake of mission to break down barriers and to describe our purpose this is an article from the

32:02

What is this from Baptist Press and this is in 2021? September 14th, actually, sorry 2020 and And this is where JD Greer talks about changing the name to Great Commission Baptist or using that name

32:17

And so this is this is the first quote They had the second quote that I wanted to highlight is in the last month.

32:22

This is Greer We started receiving emails from around the country with pastors and leaders asking about using the name By making this our annual meeting theme and encouraging the use of the alternative name

32:31

We do not in any way want to minimize the significance of our past either its accomplishments or its failures our past sins as well

32:38

As God's forgiveness and restoration are an important part of our history. We not only preach the grace of God.

32:43

We ourselves We are ourselves a story of it we owe it to those who

32:49

Listen to this part. We owe it. Oh, it's oh To those whom we sinned against to not minimize our injustice against them or their suffering in it, huh?

33:01

That's an interesting line in the context of changing the name. What does that mean? He says every week we gather to worship a

33:08

Savior who died for the whole world. Not just one part of it What we call ourselves should make that clear

33:16

Interesting and this is in what year Oh 2020 Okay so somehow

33:23

We owe it. This is an obligation that the Southern Baptists have That's pretty that's not a heavy push though saying it's an obligation because of past injustices suppose.

33:33

That's not a heavy push Okay, I don't know. What would a heavy push would mean then? Here's another article this is from what

33:41

Christianity today Our Lord was not a way. This is Greer saying this our Lord. Jesus was not a white southerner, but a brown -skinned

33:47

Middle Eastern refugee I Let the quote stand every week.

33:54

We gather to worship a Savior who died for the whole world Not just one part of it. We what we call ourselves should make that clear by God's grace

34:01

Nearly 20 % of our churches are led by pastors of color By God's grace NAM announced that leaders of color planted 63 % of our new churches last year

34:11

We'll talk about tipping the scales Only 20 % of the churches are led by pastors of color, but 63 % of the new churches are led by pastors of color

34:20

What does that mean? For all three years of my presidency one of my two vice presidents has been

34:25

African American and the other Hispanic by God's grace We are diverse and becoming increasingly so Christianity today

34:35

Now let's we'll get to the Broda scabble here But I just want to point out if that doesn't sound like a heavy push if that doesn't sound like guilt manipulation if that doesn't sound

34:44

Like the way Megan Basham characterized it. I don't know what to tell you He's trying to use things that are frankly irrelevant

34:50

Who cares if other people in the past wanted to change the name of the SPC you did it using manipulative tactics in 2020?

34:57

And that's the context I didn't stop using the official name of the SPC that irrelevant.

35:02

Okay, so you use the SPC name sometimes to whatever Then he gets into the gavel.

35:07

He says contrary to what Basham says Well, I did say I thought it was time to retire the Broda scabble I never said that it was one of my highest priorities for the

35:15

SPC in 2020 now again Did Megan Basham did she say it was the highest priority one?

35:23

I'm trying to look back at what she actually said here about the gavel Let's see Among his highest priorities for the

35:32

SPC in 2020 retired 100 for the year of presidential gavel That I belong to Robert E. Lee's chaplain and founder of the first Southern Baptist Church.

35:38

So she did say among the highest priorities He says I I never said it was one of my highest priorities.

35:44

Okay, so she said it was one among his highest priorities He says it's not one of my highest priorities. I Starting in 2020.

35:51

I didn't even know if it was an option furthermore after explaining my choice for the 2021 convention

35:56

I knew that subsequent presidents would get there to make their own choice So he's saying down the line other people could have changed what

36:01

I did basically and the next okay So well, let's focus on the gavel thing for right now.

36:08

So Baptist Press first person it's time to retire the Broda scabble. Now. There's a whole article from Baptist Press about it now

36:16

Highest priority I'm willing on this point. So you can see that perhaps JD Greer had

36:22

Priorities that were higher than retiring the Broda scabble. This was a matter and this is one of the things

36:28

I think Gavin Ortlund tried to get Megan Basham for she characterizes what she she's looking at it And she's saying looks like you emphasize this quite a bit.

36:35

I'm just gonna say it looks like one of your among your highest priorities Gavin Ortlund did the same thing with you know saying

36:42

Megan Basham She characterizes me as saying that the people who buy into climate denial ism

36:48

Climate change denial ism are involved in conspiracies when I clearly said this over here And you know,

36:54

I'm and I'm willing to have a conversation and I'm nicer than you think and okay, so it's cushioning it That's the strategy.

37:00

Let's cushion this What did Greer actually say about this issue? He said knowing that it was a

37:06

Broda scabble and knowing that Johnny brought us to views on race I must admit that while we stood there I felt a sense of unease and he's talking about when he was presented with a gavel to use and it was the

37:14

Broda scabble to preside over the meeting He says the reality is that given the role that slavery played in the formation of the

37:21

SBC mixed messages will were still being sent by using that gavel He goes on to talk about If we really believe the

37:29

Gospels above all that you know This is part of that showing signaling at the Gospels above all taking the

37:35

Broda scabble away while we He says while we do not want to nor could we erase our history

37:41

It is time for this gavel to go back into this display case at the executive executive committee offices

37:47

Okay, so he and he says that Megan Basham's, you know, he didn't really he's not saying permanently retire necessarily

37:52

What do you mean? How do you else do you interpret this? He's making this part of the gospel above all that's why we're doing it including our african -american brothers and sisters

38:04

That it sends bad signals and in the context of you know, the BLM the height of BLM It sounds like it's a big priority and he wants it to go back into the display case at the executive committee offices

38:16

He doesn't say for now or for you know, just for my presidency. He's just he's saying this is a

38:22

Just a statement out there, you know, that's where it needs to go. Okay, so I think that's it for the gavel

38:34

That's all I wanted to say about that. We're gonna get into some of the other things regarding BLM I'll take some questions though in the meantime

38:40

If people have questions, I don't see many. All right in that case.

38:51

We'll just keep going then Let's talk about this next part here

38:58

From JD rears defense against Megan Basham He says

39:06

I've tried my best and I've even had a couple members of my team look into this, too I can't find any record of PBS Washington Post or any other credible outlet calling me an anti -racist reformer all right, so you go back to what

39:18

Megan Basham said and she says National outlets like PBS Washington Post had fond over Greer dot -dot -dot an anti -racist reformer.

39:29

So she's not it's not in quotes These are just her words Greer says well how they never called me that well, she wasn't quoting any of them

39:35

So this is just basic like she is character. That's her opinion. She's characterizing him as an anti -racist

39:40

Reformer and if you look at some of the things that he has said Here's an article from 2017 the danger of blind spots how could

39:47

Christians ever support slavery He talks about the word reform comes up several times here The Creed has been the stimulus of racial reforms throughout history

39:57

Thank God, the reason the reforms worked was because the church eventually repented Christians have always fueled and driven these reforms

40:03

So he uses that term you find here in an article From what outlet is this?

40:10

This is a Mmm Deseret News Salt Lake City Kelsey Dallas JD Greer president of the

40:17

Southern Baptist Convention called on Christians to embrace the statement Tuesday Black Lives Matter during a speech offered on Facebook live as a gospel issue

40:24

Black Lives Matter Of course Black Lives Matter our black blood brothers and sisters have made in the image of God Greer said Recent video recordings and social media posts have made the crisis of police brutality harder to ignore but it remains unlikely that white

40:36

Christianity will lead the charge to reform police departments nationwide scholars said the simplest explanation for why a white

40:43

Christian would hesitate to call for broad police reform has more to do with race than Religion and here's

40:49

JD Greer saying the New Testament is one of the most emphatically anti -racist texts ever written and read it is perfectly fine for Megan Basham to Characterize JD Greer in her opinion as someone the major media sees as an anti -racist reformer.

41:01

She's characterizing. She's summarizing She's concluding. She's not quoting you need to know the difference and this is sadly

41:09

I don't know why but this is a problem Greer doesn't seem to see the difference there You have to argue with you have to understand why why would the media characterize you that way

41:17

Greer? Why why would the media think of you as someone who is somewhat of an ally on the BLM train?

41:23

Well, maybe it's because you said Black Lives Matter was a gospel issue and that we need to look into police reform

41:28

That was the context and listen and have this humble posture of listening to black people

41:34

That sounds an awful lot like BLM and their whole narrative. I think that's the end of let's see

41:44

So he says this is the end of it. So this is about critical race theory he says fashions

41:51

Introductory paragraph moves from a specific reference about me to a general reference unrelated to me at all. Okay, that's just writing

41:58

You're writing about a lot of people you're going to cut you're going to summarize things you're gonna characterize things

42:03

That's not really an argument. I he says I Admit, I do like a $10 word, but I can't remember the last time

42:11

I used the word hegemony and here's Here's an example of him

42:21

He says if we want the SPC to be a homogenous conservative white Anglo -Saxon movement then cultural hegemony is fine

42:26

So he literally he said that in one of his articles from 2018 on on his website so he does he has used the word hegemony before maybe not in a sermon, but it's he has used the word and Megan Basham wasn't just talking about him

42:40

One last note here is about CRT, which is a key theme of the chapter I've interacted directly with the topics of systemic racism

42:46

CRT in several sermons, but none of those sources were utilized for this book So she's upset that there's some places that he talked about this and Megan Basham didn't talk about those places

42:55

She's not obligated to talk about every place JD Greer has ever talked about CRT, especially since these are more these are after there was an

43:05

CRT and Wokeness were seen as odious career came out and started saying and and by the way, so did

43:10

Al Mohler So did a bunch of people there was a statement that all the Southern Baptist Seminary presidents stated that they affirmed the

43:17

Baptist faith a message and were against CRT and They did this after there was blowback. It was a response

43:22

So Megan's talk Megan is her whole point the whole you have to understand the thesis of her book She is showing that these operators and evangelicalism move the needle left.

43:32

She's showing how Greer did that She's not gonna interact with all of Greer's material if he said well You didn't show that you know,

43:38

I'm against abortion and and I'm conservative when it comes to that, right? Well, it's okay good for you.

43:44

That's not really the point of her book She's showing in the way the ways that you've moved the needle left She's not obligated to interact with everything you've ever said on the subject

43:52

She's on she's obligated to represent you fairly, which it seems like she's done, but she doesn't have to interact with everything you've said

43:59

So he says as contrary to what Basham claims I explicitly distanced myself from the BLM movement and In this

44:06

I could just summarize this so easily, you know, he says that black lives matter as a movement

44:12

That it's been hijacked by some political operatives whose worldview and policy prescriptions would be deeply at odds with his own

44:19

But then he goes on and he doesn't want to totally defund the police, but then he goes on to say we need to examine

44:25

The police we need to look at the you know, maybe reforming it essentially we need to develop a posture of listening and and and so Just because he said some political operatives who worldview and policy prescriptions would be deeply at odds with his have hijacked

44:41

This doesn't mean he's saying that you know, he's still on the BLM train as far as the movement goes He's still pushing the needle in the direction.

44:48

They want it pushed. He's still saying things consistent with the movement He's just not going to the excess that some of them go to that's all it is

44:54

And so this doesn't contradict what Basham said at all There was a section in here

45:02

Maybe I skipped it where he talks about like he's like I never talked about taking down statues I can I just wanted to point out real quick here that I did.

45:11

I remembered this JD Greer Actually did post this in 2017 and it's an article articles of the week

45:20

And he posted an article from John Piper Where John Piper it says one month before one month removed from the

45:27

Charlottesville protests we are still in need of critical thinking when it comes to the meaning of Confederate memorials and You click on the link and you get to the

45:34

Piper article and the Piper article in the Piper article he makes an argument for essentially moving them and contextualizing them and He says not removal but moving and it essentially

45:45

I mean it's It's essentially removing removing them from the purpose by for which they were erected

45:51

For honoring people who defended their homeland and you know, that's what they say on the inscriptions. That's what the original audience understood

45:57

It doesn't say they fought for slavery and we honor that It usually talks about their bravery and these kinds of things and John Piper wants to move them and contextualize them.

46:06

So yes JD Greer did in fact talk. He did address the monument issue contrary to what he says in this, okay

46:14

Ethnic diversity and SBC committee appointments. Let's just see There's some video that I want to play and then we'll dive into that But before that, let's get to some questions or comments that people have looking through this

46:30

Pastors like this are why the papists and ortho bros can ridicule Protestants Unfortunately, you're right.

46:36

I've had both Catholics and Eastern Orthodox basically say to me You guys are ridiculous and and actually

46:43

JD Greer has been thrown in my face more than once from Orthodox Big O Orthodox people as in fact,

46:50

I know one person who converted to Eastern Orthodoxy from JD Greer's church who was kind of like I couldn't take it anymore and Yeah, it is a lamentable thing.

46:58

Mick Jagger Mick Jagger. You're Mick Jagger is in the chat today question John to what extent do you feel that the outrage we fired?

47:05

We find online over Basham's book is an organized astroturf initiative rife with bots and common farm employees posing as Christians I don't know that it's that I don't know

47:13

I think that these guys are in their own chat groups talking about this stuff and trying to coordinate, but I don't think

47:19

That's just human nature and they have each other's backs and they're trying to see what works and that it seems like there's a push

47:27

Against Basham and then they switch it and they and they keep switching the arguments They're going to use and what they're gonna try to hang around her neck.

47:34

So yeah, I think there's coordination I don't think that it's necessarily astroturf and you know that kind of thing

47:42

Alright, yeah, I'm not I'm not gonna touch this one. I'm not gonna get sorry get derailed into the Catholic and ortho bros

47:48

Stuff if that's okay with all of you. How can people who Who has claimed to receive the

47:55

Holy Spirit preach LGBT Alliance as a Christian duty, that's a good question There's a lot of SBC guys trying to run to his defense

48:02

Yeah and it's because he was their president for two years and he's deeply involved with a convention and He appointed a lot of people to committees and he's well -loved and you know

48:10

He was the pit. I mean it was really like going back in time This really should be uncovered a lot more.

48:16

But you know the whole Cancellation attempt which worked against Paige Patterson probably needs to be dug into more

48:23

Paige Patterson thought Greer wasn't ready and Patterson was canceled and Greer became like it seemed like the center of authority

48:32

It was like a fight between Louisville and Houston It was Paige Patterson and Albert Mueller the traditionalist for the subversive

48:39

Calvinist, right? It seemed like that's what how the SBC was more or less divided And then you see this shift after Greer to North Carolina and then and now

48:48

Kevin Ezel and it seems like there's this you know more woke branch and then The Patterson coalition is kind of more or less

48:57

They they've been defeated in a way. They're they're not as powerful as they were and the

49:03

Louisville Contingent the molar folks are kind of like center right ish like they're they're not, you know

49:11

Totally right -wing, but they're trying they want to position themselves as they're not as crazy as the guys in North Carolina and it's this new but but Greer's presidency seems to mark the beginning of that shift in North Carolina and So that at least that's what

49:25

I see Do you see the SBC is able to survive the world invasion? I mean,

49:31

I don't know. That's that's such a big question I mean I could say yes or no, but I mean,

49:38

I already think I've said what I think about the SBC I think that it's gone down a bad path and it's not an organization that at this point

49:44

I want affiliation with or involvement with other than warning people who are still in it or might be because it's so influential they're still gaining material and You know, let's face it with some of the big preachers and things that are published through SBC's publishing arm

50:02

Lifeway, they're still influencing people. So I talk about it, but It's a bellwether I just don't know

50:07

I don't I don't see how it happens and I don't want to counter -signal my friends who are like William Wolfe who I See as trying to really do everything he possibly can to get a coalition together to try to Move the needle in the right direction and I've seen him do some things that I haven't seen before There's some progress in some areas.

50:23

But yeah overall. I I don't see how I don't see how you recover it to be quite honest With you you would need a large group of churches to not just enter the convention

50:33

But to enter the convention and start getting busy to show up It's a ground game and they haven't been able to figure it out since and I've been watching this closely since 2018

50:42

I'd say and they the conservatives have not been able to figure that out. So Let's watch a little bit of JD Greer on the panel discussion

50:50

I think this is the one Megan might be referencing talking about BLM and we'll go from there. I've explored

50:56

Let's see here. I'm gonna have to fast -forward on this video Let's see. Here's the panel discussion

51:06

Okay, like a white friend said to me That was hundreds of years ago. I'm good hasn't so what do you say?

51:13

What can't what talking points can we give besides just leave your verse a script or something like that to just say?

51:19

Especially if they really want to know Karen I think that's a great question because I think that's where particularly a lot of those that are in the the majority

51:27

Culture are like what? What do we say here? We've talked about the the parable the Good Samaritan that That just because I'm not the one that doesn't mean that I'm relieved of responsibility but I think in the

51:38

United States it even goes a little bit deeper because we recognize that because Certain people defined by race were in power for so long

51:45

They created some of these systems that have worked better for them quite frankly than they have for for other people just if you go back and look at the history of Whether it's

51:55

Jim Crow laws or practices like redlining and some of the long -term damage One there's a political commentator and he's very conservative.

52:04

Let me just add that so this is not You know just sort of a left -wing talking point He says the word systemic used to really bother me because I thought it meant that the laws

52:14

Themselves were bad and he said we got that correct in the civil rights movement. And so why are we talking about systemic laws?

52:20

Here's how he defined it. I thought it was really good. His name is David French He says a system in which public policies

52:27

Institutional practices cultural representations and things like movies and books and and other norms work in various often reinforcing ways to perpetuate racial group inequity

52:39

It identifies dimensions of our history and culture that have allowed privileges associated with The color of one's skin whiteness and disadvantage associated with color to endure and adapt over time

52:51

Structural racism is not something that a few people or institutions choose to practice instead

52:56

It's been a feature of the social economic and political systems in which we all exist. Yeah, that's really good

53:02

And I think it's a great summary I would however saying that we also need to understand that the systemic racism is not just that the due process is not just Happening it has been an intentional thing

53:14

Because even in the text it talks about this idea this matter arose because false brothers Infiltrated our to our rings to spy out the freedom.

53:22

So it's also in a very intentional very thing that has happened Over the 13th the minion after the 13 men and what minorities are in african -americans are saying it's still happening today

53:33

So it's not just that it's happening and the system is not working for african -americans but we're we're talking about a system that when we talk about systematic racism that is intentionally still trying to oppress and I think that that's really what's important about these types of conversations is being able to have these conversations where We can be begin to talk and have real conversations where we can speak the truth in love

53:55

Right and in speaking of the truth and love there may be some things that may not sit right with us

54:00

But we have to stay in the fight, right? because what you see is Paul willing to travel all the way to Jerusalem to stand before the powers that be to be able to address and to advocate and to fight for To fight for and to give voice to a group that did not have voice in you know in the church

54:18

And so throughout this time ultimately, that's really what we want to do over these next five sessions and all right, so You hear

54:27

Dottie Lewis there at the end, but JD Greer. I just want to read this for you. This is from a summarization of the

54:37

Seven basic teachings which characterize critical race theory from Delgado and Stefan Stefansik's Work critical race theory and introduction.

54:46

So first racism is normative Second race is a social construct created in order to allocate privilege

54:52

That's the social construction thesis third white privilege maintains white dominance fourth colorblindness keeps minorities in subordinate positions fifth

55:00

Majority groups tolerate advances for racial justice only when it benefits them interest convergence Six voices of color have access to special knowledge and seventh the history should be reinterpreted according to minority experience now

55:11

I'm pretty sure if not all seven at least five or six of these I already can see

55:17

JD Greer has certainly Forwarded in some way, but in the clip you just heard you certainly hear that first that racism is normative

55:26

You hear race is a social construct created in order to allocate privilege and you hear that white privilege maintains white dominance

55:32

You hear all those things jumping out of what he said so Any it's funny too.

55:38

He quotes David French David French this guy is really conservative David French, you know the guy who's voting for Kamala Harris this coming

55:47

November yeah, that David French super conservative and And that's where he's getting his views on this for in that particular clip

55:54

So I think Megan Basham was totally on point and I don't see any problem with what she said to characterize

56:00

JD Greer That's who he is All right. So let's go through ethnic diversity and SBC committee appointments

56:06

This is from Megan Basham's book rear as president of the SBC was in the best position to fundamentally transform

56:11

American Evangelicalism with a DEI based hiring philosophy in May 2019 Delivered a sermon in which he outlined one of his tasks as a national leader of the denomination appointing people to committees

56:21

Who make further appointments that end up sharing shaping the institutions? Those institutions being the

56:26

SBC seminaries that educate a plurality of pastors of all Protestant denominations North American Mission Board the

56:32

International Mission Board and Greer noted with some pride that he took pains to ensure that two -thirds of them

56:37

Were either women or were people of color because we need their wisdom There are many wise black pastors and women in positions of influence from whom the church benefits

56:45

Of course but Greer in contradiction to Galatians 3 and Romans 2 was suggesting that they had a special wisdom because they were black or because they

56:52

Were women a theologian bodhi bachem Addresses this calls it ethnic Gnosticism. All right, so I agree with her assessment here, by the way

56:59

He is gonna try to take it apart. He says and first of all, I think this is a concession He goes it was never a secret that diverse committee appointments would be a key goal of my presidency

57:07

So I guess that was a key goal. That was that was the gold So so the Broadus gavel that wasn't a major push, right?

57:13

But the key committee appointments that would have been that's the key goal I don't know they seem like they're kind of in the same vein, you know

57:22

He goes what Basham fails to acknowledge. However, was that Southern Baptist had themselves repeatedly called for this for decades?

57:27

so fashion doesn't have to acknowledge that so he goes through all these different resolutions and Reconciliation task force and all kinds of things before he rentered the scene

57:37

I've made the point before that I think you could go to 1995 or you could you the apology for slavery or you could more accurately go to 2000

57:45

I think it's 10 the Great Commission resurgence and I think a lot of the problems that we're having stem back to that But so they it predates

57:53

Greer but Greer gave it a shot in the arm and the group Megan doesn't bash It doesn't say anything different than that. She's not blaming

57:59

Greer for every single thing that happened It's just that he was the president of the Southern Baptist Convention and he made this one of his main points

58:05

So Greer talks about these different resolutions And I'm not I don't even know I've had the time to read all this to you

58:11

But in 1973 there was a resolution called the resolution on use of ethnic groups on agencies in this resolution

58:17

It says the Lord has blessed the efforts of our fellowship in the redemption of a multitude representative of many groups and languages We commend such responsible nominations and further encourage that such practice be continued

58:26

That's it and you read through these resolutions you read through the other things You don't find what

58:31

Greer says even in this Greer says our desire is to reflect the diversity of our membership and proclaim this is Key the diversity of the kingdom.

58:39

That's a fairly newer. That's a newer argument You know Southern Baptist Convention is to strive towards a balanced representation of our ethnic diversity.

58:47

That's 2008 a resolution 2008 It's and I don't think Greer was the first one to say this

58:53

But it it really was it was like the kingdom diversity initiative at Southeastern Maybe where you you saw this come up and I'm trying to remember

59:00

I think maybe the Great Commission resurgence Maybe I'll molar talks about this a little bit I'm not sure if he uses this argument specifically, but I do remember

59:06

Southeastern using this for their their program. They're the Kingdom diversity program and Greer used this a lot and they kept appealing to revelation

59:15

Every time tongue in nation and our churches need to reflect that kind of diversity as if that was a command and not just a

59:20

Statement of fact that God is going to do this. Jesus is gonna bring all these people So he says we desire our leadership to reflect both our current membership as well as the communities we feel called to reach now

59:32

Let's finish this do he says in contrary to what Basham claims acknowledging that someone's background can bring with it certain helpful perspectives is not epistemological

59:39

Gnosticism he says that the critical theory and intersectionality camps who claim that a

59:45

White male like me is incapable of understanding and justice oppression or even Jesus himself that those guys are

59:51

There they're wrong basically and so he says I made clear that this was not tokenism or a quota system

59:57

Let's see what he actually said. And by the way, same JD Greer who you know, this is Inconsistent with the support for resolution 9 we can use

01:00:05

CRT as long as it's an analytical tool under the authority of Scripture Then it's okay, you know and we're not pro

01:00:11

CRT. That's how this works. And So you heard him in that particular clip.

01:00:16

Let me show you This article this is from Baptist Press 2021

01:00:22

Greer decries division repudiates Ferris Eagle spirit. Is this the one I wanted to read? Let me see.

01:00:29

I'm not sure if this is when I wanted to read That's the fundamentals conference. No, that's a picture of Greer Now I'm I'm losing my articles hang with me for one second,

01:00:43

I Know I had him pulled up. I wonder if I closed it. Okay, here it is This is from SBC life 2019

01:00:55

We know that the United States is changing already nearly for 20 % of our membership This is Greer talking and the

01:01:01

SBC is non -anglo beyond that 63 % of all churches playing in our convention We're planted by people of color last year our committee appointed

01:01:08

Appointments tried to reflect this 48 % of our appointments were non -white 40 % were females and only 32 % were white males

01:01:15

Nearly 80 % had never served before nearly half of all appointments were from churches with an attendance of less than 250

01:01:21

Let me be clear. This is not tokenism or a quota system we genuinely need the perspective insight and wisdom of our brothers and sisters from every culture and Ethnicity.

01:01:31

The question is why? Why do you need what is it about every? Brothers and sisters from every culture and ethnicity that you need he goes on He says we realize that God has given women a crucial role in the church

01:01:44

While it's true that the scripture clearly delineates roles and responsibilities for women Men and women in the church and home the emphasis in scripture is not on what women can't do

01:01:52

But what on they can do and must do I believe in order for the SBC to thrive both our sons and daughters must thrive So there there's something so they have this tremendous wisdom this insight this perspective

01:02:03

Every culture and ethnicity and was so we need more of it and we need and he gives percentages Okay, so where does the scripture do that is the question does the scripture say?

01:02:12

Well, you need to have this racial balance if you to get real wisdom The whole Proverbs is an entire book in the

01:02:18

Old Testament does ever talk about this. You really need all these cultural You know these people from different cultural backgrounds.

01:02:25

You need these people from different ethnicities to really get wisdom That's how you gain wisdom. No, you don't find that and That's what

01:02:32

Megan's point is. That's what Greer is pushing and to say well, it's not tokenism It's not a quota system after you've just Quoted these numbers.

01:02:39

Well, okay. What are you trying to reach then? You're not giving a specific like this is the quota Maybe we're trying to reach but you're saying we want to move the needle away from this and towards this

01:02:49

Just because we don't have a specific. I didn't say I wanted 80 % African Americans Okay, but you're wanting less white males and more

01:02:56

African Americans, right? So It's not tokenism. It's not a quota system We genuinely need the perspective insight and wisdom of our brothers and sisters.

01:03:05

He says Let me play for you a clip and then I want to read for you this So this is something that Megan didn't point out that I want to point out but presenting sure

01:03:13

Let me play for you if I can get to this is from The just gospel conference.

01:03:18

Here's JD Greer church. We have explored for example What a way is that she can lead in the church that do not carry pastoral authority or violate the spirit of 1st

01:03:26

Timothy 2 We've gone literally through our entire staff directory through a couple of hundred different positions on staff and just asked

01:03:34

Okay Where have we just traditionally? Assigned this to a man when it really could be done in a way that a that a woman could lead it where somebody who?

01:03:41

Is not an elder could lead that it's led to a redefinition of? dozens of jobs in our church where we know that women that are very capable as leaders and and Capable as administrators and capable of vast ministry vision and wisdom can lead in those areas and ways that Don't necessarily carry

01:04:00

Elder like authority we've asked and this has probably been the most by the way I know not everybody here is

01:04:05

Southern Baptist, but that's a question that those of you that are Southern Baptist We've got to ask in the convention at large Where has this just been?

01:04:12

Traditionally something that men do when it is really something God intends for the larger body of Christ to be leading together

01:04:18

We've asked whether and this has been the most painful one whether we are committed at the summit church to empowering women as we are

01:04:24

Empowering men at our church. If you're a guy you say I want to go into ministry There are like five different pipelines you can jump into Yesterday and the same is not true for ladies in our church and sisters in Christ and it's something that we have been

01:04:36

Humbly and repentantly trying to to address We've done all this while seeking not to minimize but to celebrate the distinctive roles that God has given to men and to women

01:04:46

You know listen complementarianism is not a box to be checked in the church as a doctrine to be celebrated It is part of God's beautiful design

01:04:53

We believe it is a beautiful aspect of creation whereby God reveals more of his glory than he would have if he did just created

01:04:59

One gender alone when God looked at Adam, and he said not good if he created somebody else just like him

01:05:05

He would have said not good not good It had to be something different that was equal but work together in ways that demonstrated

01:05:11

God's glory These distinctions are beautiful and creating the woman is the helper. God was not creating a diminutive servant

01:05:17

I mean consider the fact that the only other person who's referred to in Being in Scripture that's referred to as the helper is

01:05:24

God himself Through her God supplies an essential element of all human relationships

01:05:30

Relational connectivity and that is probably of course greatest experience in motherhood, but it's certainly not exclusively there

01:05:36

So in the role that I have as president of the SPC I know that one of my main task is Doing whatever

01:05:42

I can to help address that a little bit one of the things that I do and you this is more about Southern Metropolitan you'll ever want to know but one of my main roles is to appoint people on committees who will then appoint trustees who end up shaping the institutions and providing leadership and accountability

01:05:55

I Just tell you of all the appointments that I've made Two -thirds of them are either women or they are people of color.

01:06:01

I really do that for two reasons one That really is the future Already by the way, this is something it's it's hard Through an unbelievable act of generosity already right now today 20 % of Southern Baptist membership is people of color

01:06:18

Which is something honestly knowing our history I do not understand it is an act of extraordinary generosity

01:06:24

But already even with things the way they are the membership is already 20 % People of color 63 % of all the churches that Southern Baptist planted last year were led by people of color

01:06:36

So it is the present. It is the very quickly coming future That's the first reason secondly, we need their wisdom

01:06:44

It's not like this act of grace of Oh from up here I just want to be graciously share the stage because it's no

01:06:50

I need the wisdom in a changing Culture there are things that God has put in this part of the body

01:06:58

That I would be a much poorer Christian and much poorer leader and there are blind spots. I will never see until God has filled his church with a variety of people and the kinds of people that that make up the diversity of the church and Whether we're talking about racial justice or gender justice or what have you?

01:07:18

Tragically when it comes to many issues of justice, there's often been a malaise in the church. I'm not using the kindest word possible

01:07:25

In large part because the injustice did not directly affect those of us sitting in places of privilege

01:07:32

Like Marose, it didn't affect our tribe Because we didn't think it affected our tribe the church in the

01:07:38

West and various generations has been slow far too slow To champion the dignity and equality of really anybody was outside of their circle

01:07:48

And some of us ask we look back with genuine bewilderment and we say how could some of these great theologians?

01:07:55

How could some of our ancestors have? Either gone along with slavery someplace even defending it at the very least just not really seeming to care about it that much

01:08:06

How could a large majority of conservative Bible believing Christians have just sat on the sidelines during the civil rights?

01:08:12

and for the most part I think you've got to conclude that it just They felt like it didn't directly affect them at least in the short run.

01:08:18

So they didn't think that much about it Like Dan they sat back by the ships when they ought to been out in the fight

01:08:25

We have to be clear. The scripture says this not getting involved on behalf of others is a matter in God's eyes of justice

01:08:32

Burying the burden of our brothers and sisters in God's kingdom Even when we think especially when we think that what is happening doesn't directly affects us is a matter of justice

01:08:40

Deuteronomy 1018 Moses is describing the God that Israel should emulate He says that God executes justice a

01:08:47

Hebrew word mishpat for the fatherless and the widow He loves the sojourner giving him food and clothing

01:08:53

You notice there how he defines justice the word justice mishpat occurs over 200 different times in the

01:09:00

Old Testament and Almost always when you see it or a lot of times when you see it You'll see four classes of people that are brought up as in Deuteronomy 1018 the widows the orphans the foreigners and the poor

01:09:10

What one scholar calls the quartet of the vulnerable? The just person according to the law is the one involved helping those four groups and any others that are marginalized

01:09:19

The just person is not the one that's just paying their taxes It's not the one that's just going along and not stealing from anybody

01:09:26

The just person in God's eyes is the one who is taking up the cause of the one who is not him or her

01:09:32

One scholar said it this way in the Old Testament justice is not just putting down the oppressor It is also helping to lift up the oppressed

01:09:39

You see with the blessing of privilege of whatever kind you want to call it comes a responsibility to leverage that privilege for the less fortunate

01:09:46

I Take a moment to point this out because we tend to put helping the needy or the oppressed under the heading of charity

01:09:52

And we say well if you don't do that, then you're stingy, but God calls it injustice, which is a much more serious thing

01:09:59

Silence in the face of injustice is regarded by God to be complicity in that injustice The New Testament takes it even farther as it always does with Jesus Galatians 6 to carry one another's burdens in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ that means part of being one body in Christ is being committed to feeling and Seeking to understand by listening the pain that others are going through I've told our congregation that bearing one another's burdens on this issue begins with leaning in to listen and ends with fighting against Injustices that our brothers and sisters in Christ are experiencing with as much fervency as we would if it were happening to one of our children this is where things

01:10:39

I think really started to change for me and Where they continue to change for me is as God has graciously put into my life and into our church

01:10:49

Brothers and sisters of color and it ceases to be a theoretical thing and it starts to be Something I'm not reading about on CNN or Fox News.

01:10:56

It starts to be a conversation I'm having across a dinner table and you start to realize What's this election look like from that perspective?

01:11:05

What is that chapter of history? What does that feel like from that perspective and what is the fact that I never talk about that aspect of that chapter of history?

01:11:13

What does that feel like from that perspective? And what does that application process feel like from that perspective?

01:11:19

And what is that crime? What is that? What is that police shooting? What does that feel like from that? perspective

01:11:27

JD Greer sitting here next to me a pastor at the Summit Church and I'll play this one in a second.

01:11:34

This one is much shorter. I'm not going to do that to you again I know that your ears are bleeding some of you are saying I got it. Sorry. I needed to play that though And to remind you again

01:11:43

Delgado's critical race theory If we let's see, I had it pulled up here

01:11:50

You have the memory studies angle. The history should be reinterpreted according to minority

01:11:56

Experience and you have voices of color have access to special knowledge standpoint epistemology. This is what he denies doing

01:12:02

I'm not doing that. I'm not doing of any of that stuff and yet in the clip that you just heard He says

01:12:08

I will never see that's a quote from I will never see never means never

01:12:13

I think I will never see things the right way without these perspectives I need he says he makes the whole argument for why he needs these perspectives

01:12:22

So I say Megan Basham is Spot -on JD Greer is trying to gaslight all of you guys and I think it's important for you guys to see it now

01:12:30

Let me play this little this is a short clip. This is from the caring well initiative with JD Greer Summit Church We're very much behind and I want to share something with you about this

01:12:39

Megan Basham didn't talk about this in their book But I view this as a major this is even a more strong There's a stronger argument for what

01:12:46

Megan Basham is trying to say than what what I just played for you President of the Southern Baptist Convention I want to dive right in because there's so much to talk about when it comes to this and JD I want to begin with you because one of the first things that you just decided to do in your presidency in that role as SPC president was

01:13:04

To appoint the sexual abuse advisor group and to take this issue on as one of your top priorities

01:13:10

Can you walk us through? The background on how you decided to do that and some of the things that have been happening since then

01:13:16

Yeah, well the backstory was as we were leading into the convention you and I were talking and some members of the

01:13:22

RLC and this was something that we knew was was brewing is something that it's was was way overdue having a conversation about and That it was time to take some pretty dramatic steps in addressing it

01:13:35

And so after I was elected, I think if I remember correctly you were the one that got up and asked if we could

01:13:43

Appoint this and so, you know in when the convention approved it and the executive committee

01:13:49

Established it. We we set about just to find not just people that you know we're in our circles, but people that were known around the country is experts whether it's in the the legal fields or the

01:13:59

Prevention the the care those things and just said we want to hear yes from Southern Baptist, but not just Southern Baptist We want to know what is what is the best way that we can provide protection for it for people?

01:14:12

and we're going to just from the beginning not treat people who are identifying weaknesses as threats or Not treat them as enemies, but we're going to listen.

01:14:22

And so it was actually fairly moving because this you know, this this It was never a fixed like number of people

01:14:29

It wasn't like there it was it was basically a group of people that anchored it and they were having all these Conversation they listened to nearly 200 different victims and it was kind of moving because here you had people

01:14:37

That you know were really regarded in some of the the nation's experts in these things that just took a posture of saying let's let's

01:14:44

Hear from your experience. Let's hear how what it was like in your church after you know, they they several that the meetings they've been involved at every step of the process from writing the the curriculum to Helping launch the caring will challenge to even really being behind this conference and informing what happens

01:15:03

I know that some of them are here, but it's been a wonderful guide It's been a wonderful gift to not just Southern Baptist Convention, but the body of Christ the conversation.

01:15:11

I would say we're nowhere Near I mean, there's not a time for victory laps but the conversation

01:15:17

I think is is that a place that it hasn't been and Needed to be and hopefully points, you know pretends good things for the future

01:15:26

Okay, let me stop right there and let's talk about this little what you just heard This is

01:15:31

J degree are talking about the caring well initiative and they get all these people these victims Together and they get experts and we just have to listen to them, right?

01:15:38

This is the important thing I want to highlight for you something about this because I actually started looking into caring well when

01:15:44

I was writing my book Christianity and social justice and I'm gonna read for you a section from that The caring well initiative which did not platform which did not platform.

01:15:53

I should say Actually, is this where I want to start? Let me start before that. Let's start here A Standpoint epistemology is impacting the way evangelicals think about ethics theology academics and politics in the

01:16:04

Southern Baptist Convention the caring well initiative Applies a mild version of standpoint epistemology to the issue of sexual abuse

01:16:11

According to then -president JD Greer the purpose of caring well initiative was to help churches engage the problem of abuse

01:16:16

However, many of the speakers for the training material have little to qualify them except for the fact that they experienced abuse

01:16:23

Even contributors who did possess expertise took a posture of saying and this is a quote quote took a posture of saying let's hear from victims experience unquote before sharing their knowledge of the 20 main speakers providing

01:16:36

That's JD Greer quote the 20 main speakers providing training only forward publicly verifiable Members of the clergy and only one a counseling pastor from JD careers church spoke in the capacity as a pastor

01:16:48

Greer taught that if the church leaders were not first to rush to defend abuse survivors They were betraying the name of Christ and the gospel the caring well initiative

01:16:57

Which did not platform male victims in their main teachings mirrored the kind of thinking behind the me too movements believe women slogan women who experience sexual abuse were more qualified to advise pastors and churches on the topic of sexual abuse than were

01:17:09

Pastors who rightly understood and applied scriptures teaching on the subject not only was their voice necessary for solving sexual abuse

01:17:16

But their stories were generally accepted without affirming the importance of verification now, what do

01:17:21

I mean by that? Let me show you Specifically what I'm talking about here This is now

01:17:32

I'm having trouble finding this one from the caring well initiative

01:17:38

This is the material the caring well initiative put out. Let me read from you from page 87 of the church cares

01:17:47

Innocent until proven guilty is the appropriate legal standard, but you are a ministry leader not a judge or investigator

01:17:54

We take the posture of 1st Corinthians 13 7 love believes all things until there's evidence to the contrary

01:18:00

Man, talk about taking a scripture out of context So we're gonna throw out innocent till proven guilty and you just need to believe what the victim says

01:18:08

Because they're a victim and they have an experience. This is JD Greer's doing this is the material that he oversaw his church put his church oversaw and put out there and This is part of his legacy in the

01:18:20

Southern Baptist Convention So for him to say that, you know, he wasn't doing a standpoint epistemology thing

01:18:26

I think the record speaks to it differently and I will note this about your JD Greer to Have you noticed in that clip?

01:18:33

He talks about how people who have critiques of the Southern Baptist Convention need to be listened to You have to have the posture of listening even people who have claimed the

01:18:42

Southern Baptist Convention is for sexual abuse and promoting that Does he have that same charity towards Megan Basham when she says the

01:18:50

Southern Baptist Convention has a problem? No, there's no posture of listening. It's destroy defend yourself against her minimize gaslight.

01:18:57

Everyone try to destroy Destroy what she's the credibility of what she's doing

01:19:03

There's none of that and this is consistent with him because it's the same thing with BLM during the

01:19:09

BLM Riots the same thing happened. I see if I can pull up the exact quote.

01:19:15

I know I have it somewhere where you know, he we already went over where he says that the black lives matter is a gospel issue and all of that, but There was there was another thing that he said, let's see if I can find it

01:19:36

Let's see here, I'm not I'm not finding it I can summarize it but I would be in trouble because that's Megan Basham gets in trouble for summarizing things, right?

01:19:48

Let's see here Yeah, I'm having trouble finding it for some reason so I guess

01:19:57

I'm gonna have to summarize and then maybe I know I posted it on Facebook and X a

01:20:03

While back like meaning like two weeks ago that he had said something like this. Oh, here it is.

01:20:09

Is it this? Yeah, I think I might have found it Okay, so retiring the

01:20:15

Brotis gavel was part of keeping the gospel above all right But when asked how

01:20:21

Chris is Greer when asked how Christians should react to the protests the BLM protests Including the quotes looting and violence and rioting unquote.

01:20:30

His answer was to rush to quote empathy Instead of a solution rush to empathy instead of a solution when it came to the

01:20:37

BLM riots That's JD Greer If you can't see that he wants to whisper about sexual sin and Be a defender of rights for LGBT people

01:20:50

But he wants to castigate those who whom he calls closet racists and Pharisees and spiritual terrorists and neo -confederates and all this you're

01:20:59

If you don't see that then I don't know what to do because it is very clear

01:21:04

It is nuance left punch, right nuance left punch, right? And I just give you three examples of it

01:21:10

You know sexual abuse survivors at least they say they are Criticizing the Southern Baptist Convention need to listen to them because not

01:21:17

Megan Bash in though when she criticizes the Southern Baptist Convention Not her not any of the other guys who have pointed out problems tire the boat of scabble because that's about you know, that's a gospel above all but We got to have this more posture of not trying to rush to solutions when it comes to the violence of BLM Yes, I don't know what to say it's just it's unbelievable it's unbelievable really

01:21:43

Stand up for the rights of these LGBTQ plus people be you know hardcore about it

01:21:50

But when it comes to you, I don't know J sixers who are still in prison.

01:21:56

Does he say anything, right? That's what I'm talking about. There's definitely like an unequal weights and measures thing at the very least going on here

01:22:04

So to try to like take a centrist position and all this is pretty pretty disingenuous All right. We got a rush here because I'm already an hour and 20 minutes in and there's still more to go

01:22:15

Let's see There are some within critical theory intersectionality camps who claim that a white male like me is incapable of understanding injustice

01:22:23

Yeah, well, that's basically like you said that I will never see in that context.

01:22:28

I will never see I Don't know that's because he's a white male. I don't know He's talking about minorities and women and saying

01:22:35

I will never see I'm assuming he's talking about himself being a white man Okay, the 11th commandment and calling those who disagree with me demonic now, this one's kind of silly

01:22:43

We can we don't have to take much time here Megan Basham says when they do respond leaders like Greer and the president of the

01:22:49

SBC has wielded the 11th commandment like a rocket launcher Firing descriptors like divisive and demonic the other commandment by the way is you shouldn't criticize other

01:22:55

Southern Baptists So people who criticize are divisive and demonic and any who raise objections to the promotion of CRT Feminism or LGBTQ ideology in the

01:23:04

SBC ministries career went on to liken those leaving churches over woke teachings to be synagogue of Satan I remember when he did this

01:23:11

Judy Grish says this paragraph reads like it all came from one speech But the pieces and quotes here came from two talks, right?

01:23:16

Cuz Megan says literally says career went on to liken those leaving churches

01:23:22

So she's talking. Yes. She is talking about Greer's views in two different speeches This isn't a problem but he he just seems to think it is contrary to what

01:23:32

Basham says I have not fired descriptors like divisive and demonic at any who raise objections to promote

01:23:37

To the promotion of critical race theory and he uses as his evidence. Hey, there's many times I've said there's warnings

01:23:44

There's problem with CRT right after it became odious He did say things against CRT in the abstract

01:23:52

Certain elements of it, but he never he didn't take ownership of what he had done to push the needle in a direction of CRT When I was critiquing, let's see what

01:24:01

I was critiquing was something else not objections made in good faith But attacks from people who refused honest dialogue and then he puts a transcript from where we don't have time to read all of this

01:24:10

In fact, I did a whole video on this particular speech. So I'm sure people can go find it if they want to Look it up.

01:24:17

But Let's see, I believe let's see it in this speech. This was the one I Think I have an article about it.

01:24:25

Yeah This is from Baptist Press Greer decries division repudiates pharisaical spirit in the

01:24:31

SPC executive committee address. This is how they characterized it by the way, this is

01:24:38

Let's see saying the global pandemic didn't cause crisis in the SPC but revealed a deeper more insidious crisis

01:24:43

SPC president Greer challenged members of the committee to repudiate a pharisaical spirit and unite for the sake of the gospel

01:24:49

Quote last year has revealed areas of weakness in our convention of churches unquote Fishers and failures and fleshly idolatries kovat didn't produce these crisis.

01:24:59

It only exposed them He says we the change we need was cultural gospel doctrine and gospel mission of without gospel

01:25:05

Culture is sterile weak and even according to scripture deadly He decried division when which he said comes from a small but vocal minority because it hinders the

01:25:15

SPC's cooperative mission He described false accusations as demonic Greer said the

01:25:20

Pharisees possessed Correct doctrinal beliefs but resisted the ministry of Jesus more than any other group

01:25:26

They were more concerned with preserving the purity of the nation than they were bringing in the outsider. Okay. Well there you have

01:25:31

You know, he's signaling left Noting the convention success during the conservative resurgence of repudiating the 11 of the liberals

01:25:38

He asked are we now going to repudiate the 11 of the Pharisees? Do we need reform? Absolutely is doctrine important, of course

01:25:45

He goes on. Let's see here. Problem is that many of our divisions are based on 90 % misunderstandings distortions and outright lies

01:25:52

It's grieved him Greer said CRT is an important discussion and I'm all for robust the robust theological

01:26:01

Discussion about it for something is important as what biblical justice looks like we need careful robust biblical

01:26:06

By Bible open on our knees discussions, but we should mourn when closet racists and neo -confederates

01:26:13

Feel more at home in our churches than do many of our people of color There you go talk about putting a firehose to people who are concerned about CRT You know, this is doing them

01:26:25

You know Hey You shouldn't be to be concerned about this when we got this problem with a bunch of racists and neo -confederates in our churches

01:26:32

How does that make you feel if you're bringing your concern? I'm not talking about communicating ambiguity on things the scripture speaks clearly on on the sanctity of marriage

01:26:42

Life and marriage and the sinfulness of homosexuality. These are things that faithful Christians cannot disagree on in our conscience or captive In these to the

01:26:48

Word of God do we want the gospel though? People you want to be gospel people or Southern culture people

01:26:55

Which is the more important part of our name Southern or Baptist? Are the scriptures sufficient in laying out for us non -negotiables for our fellowship?

01:27:02

If so, why do we have a set of secondary criteria hedge about the law that we use to determine who is and who is out?

01:27:08

Who is in and who is out? so He said at the end of Dave where people who put the gospel of all our gospels too precious and a mission too urgent to Let anything stand in our way.

01:27:19

So yeah, this is certainly Trying to hedge against people in the convention who have concerns and one of the ones he outlines here is

01:27:28

CRT and You know any yeah, he talks about homosexuality, but you know in context here

01:27:35

He is the one that was being really I mean it even It's even in the document where he's opposing Megan Basham.

01:27:41

He's saying he's that same year He's trying to clarify what he what he meant in the misunderstanding over his sermon the gospel

01:27:48

The fall affects us all he's the one that was being opposed for soft peddling same -sex attraction and those kinds of things and This is what he has to say.

01:27:58

It is not clear Maybe that's a fault of it. It is not well put together if what he meant was there's this vocal minority

01:28:07

He should have been very clear on what he meant by that vocal minority what specifically they did who specifically he's talking about but he acts like there's this major threat out there and It people who are concerned about CRT are out there and you know

01:28:19

But the problem is we got all these closet racists feeling very comfortable. I Think Megan Megan spot -on.

01:28:26

What did Megan say again? Let's look it up. What did Megan say according to Greer? Megan said

01:28:36

Firing descriptors like divisive and demonic at any who would raise objections to the promotion of CRT feminism or LGBTQ ideology and SBC ministries

01:28:44

Greer likened those leaving churches over woke teaching to a synagogue of Satan And the next one

01:28:52

Yeah, we're not we don't have really time to go over all of it Let's see here

01:28:59

I Did a whole video on that particular speech too. I did both I did I did videos on both of those particular sermons so you can go check them out

01:29:06

I think context is important as well Where he's talking about these things when he's talking about these things and the opposition that is happening in the convention to him specifically

01:29:16

It's coming from the right and he's signaling that he's responding to people who are on the right

01:29:22

And you know even with the summit church the people who are leaving over disagreements over kovat and so forth Yeah, I mean, okay

01:29:28

Maybe there was a few who did who left the church because they didn't take kovat as seriously But I know because I have friends in that area.

01:29:35

I went to Southeastern there was droves of people leaving and that was the the big thing in the area because they were shut down and requiring

01:29:44

Kovat protocols for too long. That's that's what was causing a lot of the division We got to finish this up.

01:29:51

I wish I had more time. Okay, many friends I had in seminary could recount a time. They heard a racist joke offered by someone in there That's his that's his uh his evidence for you

01:30:00

Megan Basham says we should mourn when closet racist and neo -confederates feel more at home in our churches than do many of the people of Color he thundered from the platform at SBC's National Convention.

01:30:08

Of course the mega church pastor did not back up this shocking accusation In the next very next sentence, he says

01:30:14

I pointed out to specific calls and emails I had received and Of course, it's not appropriate to reveal personal names on stage, right?

01:30:21

Yeah, how convenient when someone has written me a private letter? So yeah, there's all these private things I can't reveal but if there is an actual question as to whether this is reality

01:30:30

I can personally say many friends. I had in seminary could recount a time They heard a racist joke offered to someone at their church

01:30:36

You heard you heard a racially insensitive joke and that justifies me Saying from the platform of the

01:30:43

Southern Baptist Convention. We got this major problem with closet racists Okay This is all it'd be great

01:30:50

You know If this is such a big problem point out the actual example so people can take care of them Instead of vaguely signaling and then you know, and then we got to have all these diversity initiatives to deal with this

01:31:03

Immigration he says I wasn't alone when he adopted the evangelical immigration tables

01:31:10

Statement of principles on it for immigration reform, which does endorse a path towards legal status for illegal migrants who are here

01:31:16

He says oh look, there's all these other people who adopted it to okay. I'd obviously there were and This isn't a list of woke progressives boasting

01:31:23

George Soros tattoos. He's just trying to be cheeky. I was Commenting only on forced separations.

01:31:31

So Megan Basham says that he was critical of Trump Policies and he's like no just the four separations.

01:31:37

Okay. Well, that's part of Trump's One of that's one of Trump's policies So again, it like this stuff isn't that this it it's not like Megan Basham got something so wrong here

01:31:46

It's that you don't like the way it's framed. I Have consistently maintained that the summit church's primary focus is not to offer political solutions on these things.

01:31:54

Okay We're not supposed to offer political solutions But then this is the same guy who reacts when there's police shootings and cries racist and wants to examine the police reform

01:32:06

You know, we need to look into police reforms and wants to sign the evangelical immigration stable statement and all this stuff

01:32:11

So, all right. Looks like you have some political solutions in mind He wants to address the

01:32:17

First Baptist Church of Naples Situation because he had gotten on the train of look at there's these racist in Naples, by the way

01:32:23

I was one of the major ones behind putting that documentary out of First Baptist Naples that Exonerated the people accused of racism quote -unquote at First Baptist Naples who were terminated from the membership and because they opposed

01:32:37

Marcus Hayes and J .D. Greer saying I still don't know really what happened there. Well, you should look into it because it's pretty clear what happened there

01:32:45

It's not really we have the documents. We have the sources. We have the testimonies and He just accepted the account of people who said they were in fact a bunch of racists

01:32:54

And he says I regret not acknowledging publicly that I didn't know it all that happened. Well, that's great

01:32:59

I mean people lose their reputations and are lose friendships even lose business

01:33:06

You know, your businesses are hurt and all these things and it's great that you're regret not publicly acknowledging that you didn't know all that happened career because man

01:33:17

I bet that really gives them a sense of relief the conclusion He says is that Megan Basham is is has a presupposed narrative

01:33:27

That nearly 70 % of his community. He says votes Democrat. I thought that was funny And these are the good people

01:33:33

God calls us to reach. So why do you beat up like? It's just funny.

01:33:39

So you see 70 % of the community's Democrat You don't think when they hear you say things like we should advocate for LGBT rights

01:33:45

Like what do you think they're hearing that this is he's shooting himself in the foot when he says this She exemplifies meeting

01:33:52

Megan Basham the tendency to respond to anyone outside of our tribes with bad faith. So she's just a bad person Well, why aren't you maybe you're responding in bad faith?

01:34:00

Jesus led with relationships and grace, you know, I'm curious if JD Greer I'm curious, you know, like did he make this is the constantly the thing brought up like oh

01:34:12

She never contacted me about my public statements was Megan Basham privately contacted about her public statements were there attempts from JD Greer to Halt the or stall the publication of Megan Basham's work

01:34:28

These are questions. I would be curious to know the answers to publicly. So there you go that there's my response

01:34:34

And I just ran out of time so I can't go through it anymore I hope that was helpful for some of you I'll take some questions and then we're gonna land the plane because we're over an hour hour and a half in here too legit to quit says

01:34:45

So you believe the destruction of the temple status? What are we to what in the world? 70 80.

01:34:51

Okay. No, there is another discussion at whole squirrel. This is a whole nother thing. We're not getting to that Let's see other questions.

01:35:00

I'm looking for questions specifically How do you identify a closet racist

01:35:06

JD that's a good question if they're in the closet That like we got a problem with all these closet racists.

01:35:12

Like how do you know? Where are they? Yeah, good point Why are

01:35:20

Americans the al al coon projects asks? Why are Americans obsessed with race? There is only one race descended from Adam That's a big question.

01:35:28

I think So Americans Today at least pride themselves on being a proposition nation that Is multicultural and is united by a common creed of equality or liberty and justice for all or something like that so I would say that Americans tend to that that for many that becomes part of their national identity, which is

01:35:54

We accept everyone and we don't We're morally superior because we have overcome our racial past and we don't see race and or you know we're we're about racial equity and these kinds of things and whether it's the 1619 project and they want to reach a

01:36:10

Vision that has yet to be reached or it's the 1776 Commission where we've reached it in the civil rights movement

01:36:17

We just got to keep maintaining it. There's this spirit of we are uniquely in a place for promoting platforming

01:36:29

Securing equality for all peoples everywhere and so when someone accuses someone of being against that You know and being a racist or a theocrat or you know something that isn't for equality

01:36:41

Then it's like calling them. It's like saying putting the black mark and saying they're not really even truly American They're they're part of the out group now where there is much weeping and mashing a piece

01:36:50

So it's a political weapon in a sense if you can categorize someone that way And people run from it.

01:36:56

They run for the hills when that happens so that's a very short explanation of why Americans are obsessed with this some of it has to do with our history and having a lot of immigration and then even in the

01:37:10

South especially a very large group of people descended from Africa who are very different who have created their own subcultures that and wanting to kind of Live and share a government together and share share things in common and so wanting to get past those cultural differences

01:37:29

That's part of the reason Americans are obsessed with it. That's my best shot at it. Do you think JD got a refund for the poor communication from toast and for those who don't know docents is a

01:37:42

Organization G. I guess JD Greer was using docent to help with some of his sermon prep They were doing some research for him.

01:37:48

I don't know on what level I it was a few years ago that I covered that but there was even someone who worked for docent from his church as I remember, so Yeah, I don't know

01:37:58

Any more questions last call Last call and then we're gonna end it

01:38:06

Scott says and he's a sc BTS grad like me John Do you remember that one chapel at sc BTS that Greer said he didn't have time to make a sermon and preach from a chapter

01:38:15

In his book. Actually, I don't remember that There's so many things that might have gone through my mind that probably at one time

01:38:22

I knew and now it's like faded Look at mine.

01:38:27

Okay. Did you post it somewhere Scott? I'll look at it Yeah, that's interesting. I don't remember that but Greer is also an sc

01:38:34

BTS grad and the politics in that area I'll just tell you this. They're kind of insane in the Raleigh Durham area.

01:38:40

It's very controlled by Southeastern it Greer is part of that you can kind of think of it like a cabal in a way

01:38:47

Someone just actually recently emailed me. I was like John I can't find a church all the Southern Baptist churches. They seem like they're just they're piping in the same stuff

01:38:54

They're all like on the sc BTS train and I'm like, yeah, I know I lived it I would visit at SVT BTS Church and I'd be like this one seems okay and then they'd be like and we're doing our racial reconciliation conference next week and I'm like what and Yeah, it's like they all kind of drink from the same pipeline

01:39:10

And and it's there's like a whole hierarchy built off of sc BTS in that region It's just really some people call it woke forest because of that.

01:39:18

I haven't called it that maybe I have I don't think I have All right. That's the podcast.