MARTY FROMM, my dear friend in eternal Glory with Yeshua, his Messiah + ISI Radio Archive Interview with him from March 2010

Iron Sharpens Iron

Subscribe

Download

Share

00

00:00

The views and opinions expressed on the show are those of the host and guests, and not necessarily the views of staff and management of WNYG.

00:18

Iron Sharpens Iron, brought to you in part by the Fuqua and Associates Attorneys at Law.

00:25

Welcome to Iron Sharpens Iron, the only daily live broadcast in the New York metropolitan and greater

00:31

Long Island area, on which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians have a platform to address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

00:42

Proverbs 27, 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

00:49

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and directed to have in view in conversation, to make one another wiser and better.

01:01

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour. New York, Connecticut, and those listening internationally over the internet, this is

01:20

Chris Arns and your host of Iron Sharpens Iron, wishing you all a happy Thursday on this 18th day of March in 2010.

01:28

Another gorgeous, stunningly beautiful day here on the Long Island, in the

01:33

Long Island, New York area, and I hope that the Lord keeps blessing us with weather like this, absolutely breathtaking.

01:41

Today, we are going to be addressing a very, very important theme. We're going to be addressing

01:46

Jews with no temple. Where is their sacrifice? Where is their hope?

01:52

This is to prepare us to discuss very important matters with our

01:59

Jewish friends, loved ones, and neighbors as Passover approaches. Passover begins on sundown on March 29th, and to discuss this very vital theme with us tonight is

02:12

Marty Fromm. He is no stranger to the Iron Sharpens Iron audience. He's a frequent guest in our program.

02:19

Marty Fromm is the founder of Beth Yeshua Ministries, currently worshiping in Plain View, Long Island at the

02:26

Olive Tree Congregation, and this is a congregation of Jew and Gentile who worship the one true

02:35

Lord God and Savior, Jesus Christ, in spirit and truth, and they are going to be having their own

02:44

Passover demonstration the day before Passover, Sunday, March 28th, and we're going to be giving you details about how you can attend this

02:56

Passover demonstration at the Manor East in Massapequa, Long Island, the Manor East, which is a catering hall in Massapequa, Long Island, New York, on the borderline of Suffolk and Nassau County.

03:07

We would love to hear from you and your questions for Marty Fromm regarding the question,

03:13

Jews with no temple, where is their sacrifice? Where is their hope? And our number is 631 -482 -8300, 631 -482 -8300.

03:24

When I pick up the phone during the station break, call your family, friends, and loved ones, especially if they're Jewish, and perhaps even if they are

03:31

Gentiles who have a passion to evangelize the

03:36

Jewish people with the gospel of Messiah, Yeshua HaMashiach, Jesus the

03:42

Christ, and have them tune into 1440 AM on the dial if they live on Long Island, the

03:48

Bronx, Yonkers, the Jersey Shore, or the coast of Connecticut. But they can hear this program anywhere on the planet Earth via live streaming at sharpens .org,

03:57

S -H -A -R -P -E -N -S dot O -R -G, where not only is the program live streamed, but you can hear past programs there on free, downloadable

04:04

MP3, including many interviews we have done with Marty Fromm, founder of Bestissue of Ministries in Plainview.

04:13

Our number, once again, is 631 -482 -8300, 631 -482 -8300. We would love to hear from you and your questions about Passover, about Jesus Christ fulfilling the prophecies of the

04:26

Messiah, about what is a Jew with no temple to do? And our number, again, is 631 -482 -8300, 631 -482 -8300.

04:39

Don't go away. We'll be right back after these messages. It's more difficult these days in a culture dominated by commercialism to find a biblically sound local congregation that has not also caved into the mindset and methodology of mainstream media advertising agencies that seek to appeal to the appetites of the world.

05:10

If you've been looking for a fellowship that still regards the Holy Scriptures as the only authoritative standard for faith and practice, and still believes that each and every word found there is equally inspired of God, please pay a visit to Massapequa Bible Ministries, near the border of Nassau and Suffolk counties on Long Island.

05:30

Pastor Jack Thomas and the folks at Massapequa Bible Ministries focus their meetings on studying

05:36

God's Word, which they believe should be paramount when believers gather together.

05:42

Massapequa Bible Ministries meets at the facilities of the South Shore Dance Studio, 81

05:48

Grand Avenue in Massapequa, just two blocks north of the train station off of Central Avenue.

05:54

Their Sunday services are held at 9 .30 a .m. and 10 .30 a .m., and they have children's

06:01

Bible studies and junior church services every Sunday. They also have Wednesday night prayer meetings at 7 .30

06:07

at the home of members. Call Pastor Jack Thomas at 631 -691 -0063 for more details.

06:16

That's 631 -691 -0063, or visit massbibmin .org.

06:24

That's M -A -S -S -B -I -B -M -I -N .org.

06:30

You can email Pastor Jack at massapequabibleatjuno .com. That's massapequabibleatjuno .com.

06:39

Clients come to us usually in a state of shock and confusion. Their life is falling apart.

06:44

They have no money. They have lost their means of getting money. Their health is gone. There's wait for your case to come to court, and it takes a while.

07:02

You end up settling for a meager amount because you can no longer endure the fight at the law. Hi, I'm Jonathan Weingarten, gemologist, author, diamond designer, and one of the owners of Good Old Gold in Massapequa Park, Long Island.

07:51

I'm a member of the Gemological Institute of America alumni and associates and an associate member of the

07:57

International Society of Appraisers. Good Old Gold has received wonderful reviews in Newsday, on News 12

08:03

Long Island, Good Morning America, and in Modern Jeweler magazine. Good Old Gold's reputation for excellence is global, so whether you live in Massapequa, Massachusetts, or Madagascar, we hope you join others from around the world who have discovered that Good Old Gold is a diamond source you can trust.

08:22

Good Old Gold is listed with the Jeweler's Board of Trade and is a member of the Consolidated Jewelers Association of Greater New York, which stands for honesty and integrity within the jewelry industry.

08:33

Good Old Gold offers you the best prices when purchasing your own unwanted gold jewelry and will even help you run your own gold party.

08:42

Invite a group of friends, family, neighbors, and co -workers for an opportunity to sell their unwanted gold jewelry while enjoying refreshments, fun, and good company.

08:52

They will get the best prices they find anywhere. You can search us on the web on this, and you'll see we pay the highest prices for your unwanted gold.

09:02

Your guests will leave happy with cash in hand, and you earn a commission on all sales.

09:08

Yes, you who hold the gold party will get a commission. Call Good Old Gold today at 516 -798 -5151.

09:16

That's 516 -798 -5151, or visit goodoldgold .com. That's g -o -o -d -o -l -d -g -o -l -d -dot -com.

09:26

Good Old Gold is a proud sponsor of the Iron Sharpens Iron program. Welcome back. This is Chris Orens and your host of Iron Sharpens Iron.

09:34

If you've just tuned us in tonight, our guest tonight is Marty Fromm. He is the founder of Beth Yeshua Ministries located in Plainview, Long Island.

09:42

They meet at the facilities of the Olive Tree Congregation on 88

09:47

Southern Parkway in Plainview, and they are going to be having a Passover demonstration two

09:54

Sundays from now. And tonight we are going to be addressing the theme as we prepare to intelligently interact, evangelize, and discuss the most important questions of life with our

10:07

Jewish friends, family, and loved ones and neighbors. What is a

10:13

Jew to do with no temple, no sacrifice? Where is his hope? And it's my honor and privilege to have you back on Iron Sharpens Iron, my dear friend of many years,

10:23

Marty Fromm. Hey, Chris. How are you doing tonight? I'm doing great. The only thing that I am lamenting is that you're not sitting right next to me as you usually are when you do the program.

10:32

I just love the fellowship. Yeah, I would have loved it, but I'm a little incapacitated.

10:38

By the way, you know, your introduction, you mentioned that it's a show where you have theologians and scholars and that we're going to intelligently discuss something.

10:52

You should also tell your audience or warn them, and once in a while a little Jew from the Bronx isn't quite in the same league.

11:02

Well, I think you're in the same league, Marty. And first of all, we will repeat this towards the end of the program, but tell us about the event you are having on Sunday, March 28th, at the

11:15

Manor East Catering Hall in Massapequa, Long Island. Yeah, you know, the first thing, and I hate to contradict you in any way, you know,

11:24

I appreciate your faithfulness and your support and everything over, you know, many, many years, but it's really a

11:31

Passover Seder more than a demonstration because we actually sit down to the

11:38

Passover meal. We read from the Haggadah, which is the traditional book that explains the story of the

11:46

Passover, and we, you know, do everything basically that Jewish people have been doing for centuries, but then we demonstrate the fulfillment of those practices that we've been doing all these years in a spiritual sense to show how this points ultimately to our faith in Messiah Yeshua, the

12:11

Lord Jesus. In fact, the book that we use, Haggadah, for your listening audience, the book

12:20

Haggadah actually means the telling, and it is a book that draws many, many, many scripture verses that relate or tell the story of the

12:32

Passover. So Lord willing, we'll be doing that on the 28th. It's open to everybody.

12:40

It's at a beautiful catering called the Manor East, and we subsidize the cost of the

12:49

Passover dinner and music and everything so that it's only $20 per person, but we have to get commitments this week because we obviously have to let the caterer know, you know, what the head count is to be and, you know, the set up the tables and everything else.

13:09

Well, we will repeat that information towards the end of the program, and you can also go to Marty's website, which is

13:18

BethYeshuaNY .org. That's Beth Yeshua, B -E -T -H -Y -E -S -H -A,

13:24

I'm sorry, Y -E -S -H -U -A, N -Y for New York, dot

13:29

O -R -G, B -E -T -H -Y -E -S -H -U -A -N -Y dot

13:35

O -R -G. Marty, before we even go into the crucial question of our program tonight, what is a

13:43

Jew to do with no temple and no sacrifice, tell us, first of all, what that Passover, that first Passover was all about and why it was necessary.

13:54

Well, you know, God had called out a people unto himself, and we are not elitist in thinking for one moment that the

14:07

Jewish people or the people of Israel are any better or different or worthier or smarter, maybe better looking, than any other people on the face of the earth.

14:21

But God singled out a people who were the least of all the nations to demonstrate to the world what could happen in the lives of people, no matter how small and insignificant, when

14:35

God takes control of that people, gives them his law, his word, brings them to an understanding of who he is and how that impacts our lives so that there's a difference between holy and profane, a difference between informed and uninformed, a difference between people who have a spiritual thirst and those who are totally without God or without any understanding.

15:06

So he chose to start the nation in a very dramatic way, responding to 420 years of slavery in Egypt to bring them out en masse and to make it that dramatic through the miracle of various plagues that he brought upon Pharaoh and the

15:32

Egyptian people, ultimately to the slaying of the firstborn, to the parting of the sea where the power of the

15:40

Egyptian army drowned in that sea, and then brought them into a land of promise and hope after providing manna to sustain them through 40 years during the wilderness.

15:57

As I recall, Chris, 7 -Eleven didn't have any stores in the middle of the desert.

16:06

God had to intercede and provide for all our needs.

16:12

So all these things were done, not only to be a testimony to Israel, to realize that their

16:20

God is an awesome God, but to demonstrate that same truth to all the nations in the land of Canaan and all over, that the awesome

16:30

God of Israel kept his promises, preserved his people, did mighty and awesome acts in order to provoke those people to emulation so that ultimately not just the

16:48

Jew but the Gentile, the pagan, the heathen, whatever, all would have the opportunity to come to the knowledge of the truth and the blessing of having a relationship with the

17:00

God of Israel. And obviously, as many folks can remember, even those that are not

17:06

Christian or typically religious or religious in any way, for those of you who may even remember something as simple as watching the classic movie,

17:17

The Ten Commandments, starring the late Charlton Heston, there was an angel of death involved in the first Seder, the first Passover meal.

17:29

And if you could explain that whole circumstance. Well, what God had indicated to Israel is that he wants obedience and not just lip service.

17:42

He indicated to the children of Israel that what we call the malachim of us, the angel of death or the death angel, was going to pass over all the houses within the land, including

17:55

Israel and all the land of Egypt. And he says as a testimony, as an understanding that they were obedient to the call of God.

18:05

He indicated that each family would be responsible to take a lamb, to slay it, to take the blood from that lamb and put it on the lintels and the doorposts of their homes.

18:20

And he indicated that wherever the malachim of us, the death angel, would see the blood as a token of the obedience of the people, he would

18:31

Pesach, which is the Hebrew for the word Passover, but literally to exempt, he passed over or exempted the homes that were marked or covered by the blood.

18:45

And wherever that blood was not, you know, plainly shown as God had demanded, the firstborn in that home was to suffer the plague of death.

19:01

And of course, you know, a very devastating situation.

19:07

But again, God wants us to understand that we are responsible to follow his instruction and he doesn't bring judgment without providing us with the opportunity to listen and to understand that there are dire consequences to disobedience and great blessings for our obedience.

19:30

And of course, you know, Chris, we always try to remind people in a little story that Rich Saxon, who used to pass the

19:40

Beth Yeshua out east for us, where there was a firstborn young man in the home who says,

19:51

Papa, are we going to take the lamb and slay it and put the blood on the doorpost?

19:58

And Papa says, you know, we don't have to do that. We're going to take the lamb.

20:04

We'll tie him up outside and God knows our intentions. So it's really not necessary to literally go through, you know, the slaying of that poor little lamb.

20:18

And little Izzy looks up, Papa, is it OK if I sleep by Uncle Yonkel tonight?

20:25

I remember the first time he said that story. Um, but this is this is serious, though, because and we will even get more clear on how serious that is intended to be a joke.

20:38

But there's a serious point behind it. Now, this this Passover meal didn't end there.

20:44

This was continued on for thousands of years, even until after the

20:50

Lord Jesus Christ himself was crucified. Correct. Oh, absolutely. Which is one of the reasons.

20:57

See, Chris, I want your audience who may not be familiar to be fully aware of the fact that Beth Yeshua is a messianic outreach, but we are not a legalistic outreach.

21:12

We are people who have come to faith in Yeshua. We understand completely why we are saved by faith through the grace, the unmerited favor of God.

21:24

It's not based upon any ordinances or acts of righteousness, what we call mitzvot, good deed.

21:32

It is strictly predicated upon God's grace. So we hold the

21:39

Passover not as a testimony to our faithfulness to the law, but as a reminder of what it represents because the word of God said that it should be kept throughout our generations when

21:56

Jesus ultimately came to that point at the Passover Seder.

22:02

And let's remember, it was a Passover Seder that Jesus took the bread and the wine and he says, this bread is my body, which is broken for you.

22:12

And he says, take this cup. This is the blood of the new covenant and that the blood that is shed for you.

22:20

And he explained, therefore, as long as you do this, as oft as you do this, you do show the

22:28

Lord's death till he come. So therefore, the Passover became a demonstration of a real important spiritual fulfillment that we are now no longer under the law, but we want to show the

22:48

Lord's death. We want to recognize that it is the atoning death of Yeshua Jesus that gives us the promise of eternal life, the promise of the hope and to realize that we will spend eternity with him because of the provision that he made.

23:10

And we do not do something as an act of righteousness, as I said, but again, in total realization that this is

23:21

God's glorious plan to be that testimony to Israel and to the world and to hopefully provoke people to that understanding that they would be partakers with us.

23:35

And that's why we have a Passover Seder for all people, both

23:41

Jewish and non -Jewish people, so that, number one, for those who are already saved to believe in Jesus, received him as Lord and Savior, it reinforces the roots of what their faith represents, and it provides them with a greater opportunity to reach out to lost people to show the majesty and the magnitude of God's love and goodness in using this tool as a device to foster a better understanding and bring salvation.

24:19

I just want to repeat our phone number at 631 -482 -8300 if anybody listening would like to give

24:24

Marty a call with a question about the Passover, about the question that we are posing, what is a

24:33

Jew to do with no temple, where is his sacrifice, where is his hope? Now, it's very clear, isn't it,

24:38

Marty, that Jesus Christ fulfilled Old Testament prophecy and he was pictured in that lamb that was sacrificed every year by faithful Jewish homes.

24:52

He is that lamb, is he not? Well, without a doubt, and of course, you're playing the shill to give me an opportunity to respond to something that important, and I'm glad you do, but I just want to remind you and perhaps some of the listening audience, a number of years back

25:14

I wrote a book called Unto Us the Son is Given. The premise of that book,

25:21

Chris, was that, and let me just interject,

25:27

I was blessed with a beautiful twin sister who passed away some probably 12 years ago.

25:37

When she was dying, the Lord put this upon my heart to write a book to reach unsaved

25:44

Jewish people. Unfortunately, nobody in my family had ever made a profession of faith, and I wanted to really reach unsaved

26:00

Jewish people that they would not have that concern that I did.

26:06

So the premise of the book is to prove, and I think, and Chris, I'm not being egotistical.

26:18

I hope you realize that and that your audience, but I think it's an extremely well presented case for any person who is honestly and sincerely looking for the truth, whereby

26:33

I use only the Hebrew scriptures, what we call the Tanakh, the

26:38

Torah, the Nevi 'im, the Ketuvim, the five books of Moses, the writings of the prophets, and the, what do you call it, the

26:51

Ketuvim, the various books that all testify and prophesy of the coming of the

26:58

Messiah. You know, let's say something, as Jewish people, we are told that we are a separated nation and the

27:07

Mashiach is the hope for the eternity of Israel and for eternal life, and the

27:14

Mashiach is the deliverer, the redeemer, the one that is going to restore

27:19

Israel as the head and not the tail, to usher in the reign of peace, the days of Messiah, and there has to be a reason why are we told this, and how would we know and recognize a

27:36

Messiah if he indeed were to come? So God did not leave us without a means of making that determination, so throughout the various books of the

27:49

Tanakh, of the Hebrew scriptures, he gives us more and more definitive explanation and understanding, so that we could understand the

28:01

Messiah in terms of his nature, his person, his attributes, his timing, his purpose, his objectives, so all these things are in the scriptures, and as I said,

28:14

Chris, I think it's indisputable for any honest seeker of truth using the

28:22

Hebrew scriptures, and in fact, if any of the listening audience would like to purchase this book, we only charge $5 to cover our cost, plus another $2 .50

28:35

for shipping and handling, and if anybody, you know, wants to send a check to Beth Yeshua at 887

28:43

Parkway, Plainview 11803, they can order the book, and perhaps they'll find it helpful and informative in reinforcing what we're talking about this evening,

28:54

Chris. Yeah, in fact, we're going to go to a break right now, and then when we return, if you could further bolster the point that Jesus Christ is indeed the

29:02

Passover Lamb, and our number, if you'd like to join us on the air with a question for Marty is 631 -482 -8300, 631 -482 -8300, but whether you're a

29:14

Christian, whether you are a Jewish person who does not embrace Christ, whether you are a

29:19

Muslim, whether you're an atheist, agnostic, we would love to hear from you at 631 -482 -8300, 631 -482 -8300, don't go away, we'll be right back with Marty Fromm.

29:31

The New American Standard Bible has been widely embraced as the most literally accurate English translation from the original languages.

29:37

Millions of people, students, scholars, pastors, missionaries, and laypersons alike trust the NASB, learning from it and applying it to the challenges of their everyday lives.

29:47

Discover what the original text says word for word. The New American Standard Bible has been updated, increasing clarity and readability.

29:54

Vocabulary, grammar, and sentence structure were carefully reviewed for greater understanding and smoother reading. In perfecting the updated

30:00

NASB, more than 20 translators spent nearly three years scrutinizing the NASB in order to modernize it and maintain it in accordance with the most recent research on the oldest and best manuscripts.

30:11

Trust, discover, and enjoy the NASB for yourself today. For more details on the most literal Bible translation that is now more readable, visit www .nasbible

30:21

.com. That's www .nasbible .com. Hi, my name is

30:28

Kristen Buttafuoco. My father is Dan Buttafuoco of Buttafuoco & Associates. Provides you with an affordable, easy way to quickly get almost any kind of battery you need without ever leaving your home.

31:45

Cell phone, cordless phone, digital camera, laptop, power tool, or any kind of battery for your home or industry.

31:53

For only $0 .99 shipping, it's cheaper than using gas and 99 % of all orders are shipped within 48 hours.

32:00

Just visit batterydepot .com or you can call toll -free at 1 -866 -403 -3768.

32:08

The prices at batterydepot .com are very competitive and further discounts for multiple orders and tax -exempt organizations are available.

32:15

Visit batterydepot .com now or call 1 -866 -403 -3768.

32:22

That's 1 -866 -403 -3768. Batterydepot .com.

32:28

Welcome back. This is Chris Orenson. If you just tuned us in, our guest tonight is Marty Fromm, founder of Beth Yeshua Ministries in Plainview, Long Island, New York, a congregation of Jew and Gentile who worship the one true

32:40

Lord God and Savior Jesus Christ together in spirit and truth. And we are discussing the very important question, what is a

32:49

Jew to do with no temple and no sacrifice? Where is his hope? And as Marty was saying before the break,

32:56

Jesus Christ is clearly the fulfillment of Old Testament prophecies for the

33:02

Messiah in addition to being the one who was indeed pictured for those thousands of years in the slaying of a perfect spotless lamb during the

33:14

Passover meal. If you could pick up from there, Marty. Okay, Chris. You know, John the baptizer made a declaration, behold the

33:24

Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world. Well, John was a

33:30

Jew and John was making reference to Hebrew Scripture. There was no such thing as New Testament at that point in time.

33:40

So he obviously was referring to something to which Jews could relate.

33:46

There was a Messiah who was to come and that Messiah is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.

33:54

Obviously, this goes all the way back to the Passover because Jesus is the

33:59

Passover Lamb, the Lamb without spot, without blemish, and the one whose blood sanctifies and brings us into that saving relationship.

34:10

Now, for example, Chris, in the 53rd chapter of Isaiah, which was written, you know, more than 700 years before the coming of the

34:20

Messiah, it says that he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter and as a sheep before Hashirah's dung, so he openeth not his mouth.

34:33

He is taken from prison and from judgment, and who shall declare his generation?

34:38

For he is cut off out of the land of the living. For the transgression of my people was he stricken, and he made his grave with the wicked and the rich in his death, because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

34:53

Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him. God has put him to grief, and when you make his soul your offering for sin, he shall see his seed prolong his days, and the pleasure of the

35:06

Lord shall prosper in his hand. He shall see of the travail of his soul and shall be satisfied.

35:14

So, clearly, Isaiah is prophetically indicating hundreds of years prior to the actual event on Passover that he would be led as a lamb to the slaughter, he would be cut off out of the land of the living, and that his soul was to be the offering for sin.

35:34

So this also addresses the question that you started this, you know, this evening with, when you talk about the need for the blood sacrifice and where are

35:49

Jews today if there is no longer the Levitical system of the, you know, the sacrifice, the shedding of the blood, the altar, and all of this.

36:01

Now, if your audience would stop and think, David had it in his heart to build what we call the base mikdash, the holy house or the temple.

36:15

Solomon ultimately was called upon by God because he didn't have blood on his hands that he would build this base mikdash, but Solomon used a very clear expression.

36:26

He said this is a zevach, a base zevach, it's a house of sacrifice, that the sacrificial system was essential in order to provide reconciliation, redemption, atonement, what have you.

36:44

Now, in the Haggadah that we read on the occasion of the

36:50

Passover, if I will, if I may, Chris, it says the paschal lamb which our ancestors ate during the existence of the temple, for what reason was it eaten?

37:02

Because the omnipresent, blessed be he, passed over the houses of our ancestors in Egypt, as it is said, you shall say it is a sacrifice of the

37:14

Passover of the Lord. And in the Hebrew, it says,

37:27

So in other words, where it says it is a sacrifice, it is a zevach

37:33

Pesach. So just as we had the base zevach, the house of sacrifice while the temple stood, and while they sacrificed the lambs at the temple, it was again to point out that this temple was a house of sacrifice.

37:51

Since the destruction of the temple, and there no longer being an altar, there was the realization that all of these things were preordained and provided as a means of connecting the dots.

38:09

If you could, for one second, we'll pause there because we do have a caller on the line, Marty. Sure, sure.

38:15

Please give us your first name and the city and state you're calling from. Welcome to Iron Sharpens Iron. Okay, my first name is

38:21

Steven, and I'm calling from Deer Park, New York. Okay. What state is that in?

38:27

Deer Park, New York. State of confusion. I was just going to say, state of confusion. You know me,

38:35

Chris. I'm Steve Horowitz. Oh, yes. Hi, Steve. How are you doing? Good. I hope you and your family are blessed and doing fine.

38:44

Thank you. I have a question as to the church's theology that's going around nowadays, which says there's a replacementism that the

38:53

Jews don't have to be preached to about Jesus, and that they have their own separate salvation.

38:59

Can Marty go through that, and how important it is that that really is such a false theology going around that the

39:06

Jews nowadays, as it was many years ago, need to know? Perhaps towards the end of the program, we could have

39:13

Marty address that. For instance, I know that Pastor Hagee, I believe, is telling people that they don't have to evangelize the

39:18

Jews. But we're kind of at a crucial point in the Passover story, so if you could have him explain that a little bit towards the end,

39:26

Steve. All right, that'd be fine. I appreciate it, Steve. Thanks for calling. By the way, Steve, I know you were co -hosting here once, but did you ever win one of our

39:35

Genuine Leather Bibles? Actually, no. All right, why don't you go to my website, sharpens .org,

39:41

S -H -A -R -P -E -N -S dot O -R -G, and you look for where it says Contact Chris Arnzen on the right side of the screen.

39:47

You have to scroll down and click on that, and if you give me your mailing address, we'll make sure you get a free

39:54

Genuine Leather New American Standard Bible. Oh, that'd be great. Thanks a lot. All right, thank you. And our number is 631 -482 -8300.

40:01

631 -482 -8300. Now, Marty, the destruction of the temple before we just glide over that, that was something that Jesus Christ himself prophesied in the

40:11

New Testament, correct? Yes. Again, all of the provision in the

40:20

Hebrew Scriptures, what you call the Old Testament, was to, as Paul said, bring about an awareness that the

40:29

Lord is our schoolmaster to bring us to Messiah. So, in other words, the sacrificial system was a system where an innocent animal was put to death, and the blood of that innocent, pure animal was to shed its blood as a means of atonement.

40:57

Leviticus 1711 says, for the life of the flesh is in the blood, and it is the blood on the altar that makes atonement for the soul.

41:08

So, therefore, Paul was able to conclude, without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sin.

41:15

Now, the Lord wanted us to know that that was a temporary provision, but to bring about an understanding that the innocent suffers for the guilty, so that the guilt is imputed to the innocent, and the innocence and purity of the sacrificed one is imputed to the one offering the sacrifice who is, in fact, the sinner.

41:50

And this is the picture he wanted us to have of Yeshua, of Jesus. Jesus, who was without sin, and the scriptures are very, you know, clear to remind us, he was in all points tempted as ourselves, but was without sin.

42:12

Even those who brought him on trial, if you recall, it says, Behold, we bring him forth so that ye shall know we find no sin in him.

42:23

So, he is the picture of the innocent lamb, the innocent sufferer, and, however, he is put to death in our behalf, his blood is shed to cleanse us from our sin.

42:39

So, therefore, we see the concept of the vicarious suffering in the innocent animal is carried through to Yeshua.

42:51

This is also reflected, Chris, which you well know, in what we call the

42:58

Akedah, or the binding of Isaac. Isaac was innocent, he wasn't guilty of any sin, but he was to be brought to a mount that God told

43:13

Abraham that he was to be sacrificed. And let me just correct myself, he wasn't being told to be sacrificed because of a specific sin, he was sinless in nature.

43:29

But, ultimately, when Isaac said to his father, I see the fire and the wood, where is the lamb for the offering?

43:40

And Abraham's response, of course, is, my son, the Lord will provide himself a lamb for the offering, or a ram for the offering.

43:52

So, even there, we're shown very definitively that God will provide himself the lamb.

44:00

So, he himself had to be the vicarious sufferer, and through his vicarious atonement, there would be reconciliation with God, so that the object lesson here with Isaac is,

44:18

God doesn't want your physical death, he wants your spiritual death, your submission to his way.

44:27

And that's why Isaac was permitted to live, because God provided the means to which the atonement could be made.

44:34

And that's why we're told by Paul that he says, I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, to render your bodies a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable unto

44:48

God, which is your reasonable service. So, we are living sacrifices who are spiritually submissive, so that we crucify the flesh, so we are spiritually crucified and risen with him, and alive in Messiah, on a spiritual level.

45:13

And the Roman armies destroyed the temple, and the

45:20

Jewish people were then left in a huge dilemma. This is a crucial point in history, because this sacrifice that they relied upon for centuries and centuries, was now brought to an abrupt halt.

45:37

What did the Jews, uh, where did they find their, their hope then, and where do they find their hope now?

45:46

Well, uh, again, this can be, uh, very debatable, and you have to take the whole picture and go through the scriptures to lay a foundation.

45:58

But basically, uh, we come back to the, uh, the, the, the simple truth, without the shedding of blood, there's no remission of sin.

46:09

The consequence of that is that, uh, the Jewish people, to this day, have a tremendous dilemma.

46:19

Some of it is answered by those who, uh, foolishly and, uh, without any substantiation whatsoever, they simply conclude, since there is no provision for the shedding of blood, for the sacrifice, for the provision for the altar in Jerusalem, etc.,

46:39

that it isn't that important to begin with. Well, again, that's a very nice theory.

46:45

It sounds very, uh, intellectual and clever, but we're in the scriptures. Can you support that?

46:52

The word of God doesn't say, well, it's not so important. I'm giving you an ordinance throughout all your generations, but don't worry about it.

47:01

And you would have never said that as a, as an Orthodox Jew prior to AD 70, you never would have said that.

47:06

No, absolutely not. So the dilemma is, uh, how do we reconcile this?

47:13

And that's where we have to realize that the word of God tells us, study to show thyself approved, the workman unto

47:21

God, who needeth not be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. So you go back to the word of God, and the word of God says, there has to be a blood sacrifice.

47:32

And this blood sacrifice brings us to the Lamb of God, who takes us, who takes away the sin of the world.

47:38

A Jew who meets all the messianic, uh, provision that is demanded by the scriptures, somebody who had to come.

47:51

And incidentally, he had to come before the destruction of the temple.

47:56

That was essential. Why? Because who comes at this point after the destruction of the temple, there were no genealogical records, no means of proving what the scriptures indicate.

48:10

The Messiah must be born in Bethlehem. He must be from the house of David. He must be from the tribe of Judah.

48:17

So all these things are laid out in scripture to give us a means of making that identification.

48:25

Yeah, that's an excellent point, because how could you, if a future Messiah is expected or hoped for, how could that genealogical record be traced today?

48:38

Exactly, exactly. That's an excellent point. We have to go to our final break, and this is your final opportunity to call with a question about the

48:45

Passover. Uh, number is 631 -482 -8300, 631 -482 -8300.

48:50

If you have the intention to call, do it now, because this is the last segment of tonight's program with Marty Fromm, and we look forward to hearing from you after these messages, so don't go away.

49:00

The New American Standard Bible has been widely embraced as the most literally accurate English translation from the original languages.

49:07

Millions of people, students, scholars, pastors, missionaries, and laypersons alike trust the NASB, learning from it and applying it to the challenges of their everyday lives.

49:16

Discover what the original text says word for word. The New American Standard Bible has been updated, increasing clarity and readability.

49:23

Vocabulary, grammar, and sentence structure were carefully reviewed for greater understanding and smoother reading. In perfecting the updated

49:29

NASB, more than 20 translators spent nearly three years scrutinizing the NASB in order to modernize it and maintain it in accordance with the most recent research on the oldest and best manuscripts.

49:40

Trust, discover, and enjoy the NASB for yourself today. For more details on the most literal

49:46

Bible translation that is now more readable, visit www .nasbible .com.

49:51

That's www .nasbible .com. Hi, my name is

49:57

Kristen Buttafuoco. My father is Dan Buttafuoco of Buttafuoco & Associates, the personal...

51:08

With an affordable, easy way to quickly get almost any kind of battery you need without ever leaving your home.

51:14

Cell phone, cordless phone, digital camera, laptop, power tool, or any kind of battery for your home or industry.

51:22

For only 99 cents shipping, it's cheaper than using gas, and 99 % of all orders are shipped within 48 hours.

51:30

Just visit batterydepot .com, or you can call toll -free at 1 -866 -403 -3768.

51:37

The prices at batterydepot .com are very competitive, and further discounts for multiple orders and tax -exempt organizations are available.

51:45

Visit batterydepot .com now, or call 1 -866 -403 -3768.

51:51

That's 1 -866 -403 -3768. Batterydepot .com.

51:57

Welcome back. This is Chris Arns, and we're discussing Christ the Passover Lamb with Marty Fromm of Beth Yeshua Ministries in Plainview, New York.

52:04

We have a caller on the line, Palmer in Bayshore, Long Island. Welcome to Iron Sharpens Iron. Hi, Chris.

52:10

My question is, there seems to be some confusion, even among Christian circles, as to the way of salvation.

52:18

Some say that a Jew can get to heaven or be saved by some other way than by the blood of the cross, the sacrificial death of Jesus on the cross.

52:32

My question is, could you state clearly and unequivocally how a person can be saved, and is it the same way for both a

52:43

Jew and a Gentile? Excellent question, Marty. Yeah, well, by all means.

52:49

Let me just finish my thought, because it'll tie into that. Sure. As we said, the blood sacrifice is absolutely essential, originally in the sacrificial system, ultimately in the atoning sacrifice of Jesus.

53:09

So we have to understand, therefore, that the Word of God tells us without any equivocation that there is no difference between the

53:18

Jew and the Gentile. The same Lord over all is Lord unto all who call upon his name.

53:24

So he didn't say there's one rule for a Jew and another rule for the non -Jewish people.

53:29

The rule is the same for all. Without the blood, without the concept of the atonement, without the realization that Jesus died for your sin, we have to conclude that God means what he says, he says what he means, and he says the only way to the

53:49

Father is through the Son. So whether you're a Jew or a Gentile, you don't have a choice.

53:55

It's not all roads lead to Rome and that everybody's, you know, got their own way.

54:02

There's only one way. It's very exclusive. It's the Word of God, and like I said, he means what he says.

54:10

In fact, where I say that there are those Jewish people who deny the necessity of the shedding of the blood and that understanding, yet the great rabbis of the ages, they write, and in the prayer books for the holidays, it says that we fast to diminish our blood in place of the blood that was shed upon the altar, for though we have no blood and we have no altar, we have no remission of sin.

54:44

So obviously, the great Jewish minds fully understood they needed the blood atonement, and to say that a

54:52

Jew could be saved outside of that relationship would be, you know, completely unscriptural, and it also begs the question that if God says there's only one way, how do we conclude differently?

55:09

He says, all have sinned and have fallen short of the glory of God. There is none that do us good. So if we are all sinners, as the

55:16

Word of God says, or since we are all sinners, then the only means of righteousness is the gift of God, and Jesus is the gift of God, and grace is the gift of God, and that's the means that he has provided for both

55:33

Jew and Gentile. And to tie in Steve's earlier question, Pastor Hagee is one who professes to be a

55:41

Christian, and yet is denying the crucial truth of Christianity, the main truth of Christianity, that Jesus Christ is the way, the truth, and the life.

55:50

No one comes to the Father but through him, and yet Pastor Hagee is offering hope to Jews by being faithful to the law for their salvation.

55:59

Well, he's right. If they could keep the law, there is nobody who can keep it.

56:05

That's exactly right, nobody can. And that's why Christ had to come and be crucified on Calvary 2 ,000 years ago.

56:12

And a follow -up question is, what happens to Jew or Gentile who is not saved, who does not come to faith in Yeshua as the

56:21

Messiah, as the God, the Son? A very good question. It's the same fate, isn't it, Marty? Yeah, well, again, the

56:28

Word of... See, you know, what Palmer is alluding to, there are those people, even in evangelical circles, that have strayed from the truth, and inerrancy of Scripture, and they say there isn't a hell, or hell isn't a place of torment forever and ever, but what they're doing is they're taking license to take the clear teaching of the

56:52

Word of God and to apply a spiritual meaning where we understand what is the literal sense, and where it makes sense and God expresses it in that way, what right do we have to change it into symbolic or spiritual teaching?

57:15

It is strictly the understanding, he says, they will be tormented forever and ever. So there is a heaven, there is a hell, and God is merciful enough to bring us to an understanding that we have the choice which we will choose, but he does tell us which choice to make in order to be recipients of the glorious blessings that he has in store for us.

57:43

And to understand, if you choose differently, you have the right to make that choice, but that means you have the right to receive the punishment that comes from your disobedience, your arrogance, and your pride that keeps you from doing it the way

58:02

God had said. You know, Frank Sinatra is saying, I did it my way. Well, I don't expect to see

58:08

Mr. Sinatra in heaven, because he did it his way. You do it God's way, and then you could expect to see them in heaven.

58:16

Hey, Palmer, it's great to have you back in our audience. I haven't heard from you since we changed times, and please let everybody know that you know that Iron Sherpa's Iron is now on at 6 o 'clock at night, and I hope to hear from you again,

58:31

Palmer. God bless you. Thank you, Palmer, and we do have time for perhaps one more question, if you call quickly 631 -482 -8300, 631 -482 -8300.

58:44

And this brings us to another crucial question that C .S. Lewis posed, the

58:51

Christian fiction writer and philosopher in the earlier part of the earlier half of the 20th century.

59:02

C .S. Lewis said that if Jesus Christ made those profound claims about himself in the

59:11

New Testament and received worship, he is either a lunatic, a liar, or Lord.

59:21

There is no really alternative that many Jews today, perhaps mainly to be politically correct and to not get their

59:29

Gentile friends to dislike them or despise them, they'll say that Jesus, although he is not their

59:37

Messiah, he was a wonderful man, a good man, a good teacher, philosopher, etc.

59:43

You can't have that view of Jesus with the claims that he made unless he was the

59:50

Lord, God, and Messiah, correct? Absolutely. He holds our feet to the fire, and you can't have it both ways.

01:00:00

Marty Fromm, it's been a pleasure as always to have you back on the program, and please remind our listeners how they can attend this

01:00:08

Seder celebration two Sundays from now on March 28th in Mesopotamia. Okay, just get in touch with Beth Yeshua 516 -513 -0964, 516 -513 -0964, or contact us at 88

01:00:24

Sutton Parkway in Plainview 11803. And the website once again is bethyeshuany .org,

01:00:32

b -e -t -h -y -e -s -h -u -a -n -y for new york dot o -r -g.

01:00:38

Marty, I look forward to having you back on the program, brother. It's always a pleasure and a blessing to speak with you.

01:00:45

Same here, my friend. God bless. God bless you, and don't forget to go to that website also to investigate

01:00:51

Marty's books and to purchase them, and you will be blessed,

01:00:56

I'm certain. I want to thank everybody who listened tonight, particularly those who called in, and I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far, far greater