Christians Engage a Charismatic Mormon

Apologia Utah

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00:03

No, it wasn't me, it was their church. They're probably like... It's in Timothy. You guys know where it is.

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It's 1 Timothy 2. Oh, 1 Timothy 2. Yeah, there are groups that will take the... It's like,

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I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority. To speak in church for the shame for a woman to speak in church.

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For if a woman is to learn anything, she should ask her husband at home.

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I forgot. That's the one in 1 Corinthians. I had memorized it, but it had been a while since I ran into it, so thank you for bringing my memory back.

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Yeah, people reach all sorts of conclusions, you know, like a woman can't pray, doesn't...

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That's not what that is, you know. So something's going on there. It means something.

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What do you believe about that text? Do you believe what Paul was saying is that women shouldn't be pastors, elders in a church?

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The Smith Translation changes rules, speak to rule. Rule? Oh, okay.

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And it's referring to the priesthood. Women perform priesthood ordinances inside the temple all the time, every day, every hour, every minute.

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But there's a difference between...

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Moses didn't... Moses was a prophet of God. So he didn't...

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Did you read Numbers chapter 12 that we talked about a couple of weeks ago?

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I haven't gone back and read it, no. It's only 16 verses. Right, yeah, yeah. We can read the whole thing. It's a story, top to bottom.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah. So let's read it. I want your opinion. I'm going to sit here. I'll pull it up. It's way down here. Numbers 12.

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It's one of my favorites. I'm going to enjoy this

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Bible for as much as I can before my eyes are too weak to read this mess. Okay, you said, what was it, 12?

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Chapter 12. All right. 16 verses. Twelve. Okay.

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Andrew. Pay attention. I'm trying to get my year, but hold on one second. These millennials,

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I tell you. Sorry. Okay, then... Well, he told me he'd read it two weeks ago and he didn't bother to.

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So it looks like he doesn't want to be bothered again. It is the Bible. Right. All right. Thank you, Eric. I appreciate that. Then Miriam and Aaron spoke against Moses.

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So who's the prophet? Moses. Yes. And brother and sister are speaking against him.

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That's kind of clear to me. Right. Okay. Then Miriam and Aaron spoke against Moses because of the

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Ethiopian woman whom he had married, for he had married an Ethiopian woman. Okay, so it repeated it twice.

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So what was the possible problem there, do you think? Well, the issue with interracial marriage at the time was based around the fact that basically if you came from this place, you worshiped this god or these gods.

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And if you came from that place, you worshiped those. Okay, but what was Moses' commandment to the children of Israel? It was to not do that.

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Oh! Yeah. Okay. So the Ethiopian woman was visually clearly distinctive.

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You could tell a mile and a half away that she wasn't from the covenant house of Israel.

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So obviously her skin was a different color. True. And then possibly Moses was already married.

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So it could have been either. Yeah. Okay. Now what did Josephus say about that? What did he say?

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Oh yeah, I don't know. You don't know? What's up, dude? You know who Josephus is? Yeah, historian. Jewish historian.

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Jewish historian. Yep. He said that Moses made that marriage for a particular political decision so their countries and movements wouldn't get in a fight.

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Yeah, so it's sort of like what a... But he's not a prophet. He's just a historian. Right, right, right. So... You're just using that as like a commentary.

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Yeah. Well, not my commentary. I'm just quoting what a historian... Just quoting a commentary. Yes, I get it. Okay. So, and they said, has the

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Lord indeed spoken only through Moses? Has he not spoken through us also? Okay, so clearly we know that Miriam and Moses were top -notch followers of the covenant.

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Okay. So they weren't bad people at all. They're sinners.

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Yeah. But they're not like... They're the homeless ones that just... I mean, I was in the police academy, and my kids went to Grandpa's funeral in Utah, and my kids were abused when

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I was in the academy in a whole other state. Oh, wow. So, you know, Miriam and Moses weren't those kind of people.

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Right. Okay. Has he not spoken through us also?

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And the Lord heard it. Now the man Moses was very humble, more than all men who were on the face of the earth.

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Okay. So he was above, it's stated in him, above all others that were there upon the earth.

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He was more humble then. Yes. Humility is very important. Suddenly the Lord said to Moses, Aaron and Miriam, come out you three to the tabernacle of meeting.

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So the three came out. Then the Lord came down in the pillar of cloud and stood in the door of the tabernacle and called

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Aaron and Miriam. And they both went forward. Then he said, hear now my words.

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If there is a prophet among you, I, the Lord, make myself known to him in a vision. So something special happens with that call of prophecy.

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Yes. Isaiah was in chapter six. Yeah. Okay. And I speak to him in a dream.

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Oh, sometimes it happens that way too. Not so with my servant

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Moses, he is faithful in all my house. So was it not so with Moses? He was most faithful in all my house.

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I speak with him face to face. Yeah. Even plainly, not in dark sayings. Okay. And he sees the form of the

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Lord. Why then were you not afraid to speak against my servant Moses? So he's, he's, he's drawn a line in his hand or a mark on the sidewalk.

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Yeah. He wants their opinion. Okay. So the anger of the Lord was aroused against them and he departed.

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So, so who, the anger of the Lord was against who? Them. Who, who's them?

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Moses? Who would be Aaron and Miriam. Oh, Aaron and Miriam. Okay. And when the cloud departed from above the tabernacle, suddenly

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Miriam became leprous as white as snow. Okay. Then Aaron turned toward Miriam and there she was, a leper.

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Who? So what, what are we supposed to do with lepers? They're unclean and we put them out of the...

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Okay. For how long? That I don't remember. It would be as long as you have a leper.

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Well, it has to be, once they think they're unclean, then it has to be certified by the Levitical priest, the

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Aaronic priest. And then they have to run to them. I, I, I, the 10 lepers,

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I love this. I, I received this revelation in church and priesthood one morning. This was in 99,

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I think. And everybody says the, the, only one of the nine lepers was thankful.

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Yeah. Only one of them came back. Okay. But why did the, why did the nine lepers run away so fast?

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Because they had to go get checked out. Yeah. And then what was their, their checkout was the same as Miriam.

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We'll, we'll, we'll return to that here in a second. They had to be checked out by the

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Levitical priest and then everybody had to wait for them for seven days and then they had to be checked out again.

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So the nine lepers were more worried about what the world thought of them.

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The one leper knew he was unclean and he went back to the savior of the world.

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Right. That could redeem his sins. Even before Christ was dead, he admitted that sins before the cross, before the blood.

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I mean, people think the blood and the cross is a crazy story. What about people receiving a forgiveness of sin before Jesus?

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Abraham. Yeah. Was killed on the cross. A lot of, a lot of people don't understand that. Or Jesus just saying,

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Hey, I forgive you. And people were like, well, this guy's claiming to be God because only God can forgive sin. Yeah.

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But he was there. He was God. Okay. Let's see here.

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Where are we? Verse 11. So Aaron said to Moses, Oh my Lord, please do not lay this sin on us in which we have done foolishly and in which we have sinned.

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Okay. So there's confession. I would take. Please do not let her be as one dead whose flesh is half consumed when he comes out of his mother's womb.

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So Moses cried out to the Lord. Leprosy is pretty nasty. Yeah. Moses cried out to the

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Lord saying, please heal her. Oh God, I pray. Oh, so. So who prayed for her?

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Heal. Moses did. Okay. Then the Lord said to Moses, if her father had but spit in her face, would she not be shamed for seven days?

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Let her be shut out of the camp for seven days. And after that, she may be received again. Okay. So she had to be shut out of the camp for seven days.

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So where's the wandering in the wilderness happening for seven days? Oh, everybody's waiting on Mary because she didn't listen to a prophet of God.

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So the whole house of Israel was at a standstill because they didn't listen and follow a prophet of God.

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Miriam and Aaron were top of the house and God had spoken to them spiritually and they had been born again.

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They knew who to follow, but there was trouble for everybody when they didn't follow the prophet of God.

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Same as the days of Noah. I always tell people, only eight people were saved.

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And does that mean that everybody that was dead, Noah wasn't their prophet?

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No, he was their prophet. They just didn't listen. Right. Yeah. So Miriam was shut out of the camp for seven days and the people did not journey on until Miriam was brought in again.

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So what do you think that people were talking about for seven days?

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You think what was on CNN? Yeah. I hope not. Communist Network News?

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Yeah, for real. Clinton News Network? You know. Yeah. I mean, I'm sure there was some scuttlebutt because people aren't perfect.

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That wasn't too tough of a chapter. Kind of simple. So what's the point that you're trying to make with that?

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You didn't understand the power of following a prophet of God? Okay. Just as then?

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Just as now? I like what Joseph Smith said. He says, I'd rather be a dead, I'd rather be a living dog than a dead lion.

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Because the Jews thought there was no one better than Moses. But was there?

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A lot better than Moses. Uh -huh. Yeah, so.

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So, just so I understand, because I know you guys have talked before. I'm new to you. Oh. Just for, so that I'm sure

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I understand what you're saying. Is it, you're saying like, we would be like people either.

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Not all of us. All the house of Israel. I mean, the Muslims are of the house of Israel.

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Okay. They're the seed of Abraham. All Shemites. I mean, I love how the three levels

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PhD at BYU. The father, father that was the main editor of the encyclopedia.

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Of the faith. He spoke, he spoke in a travel series,

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Know Your Education in 1987. I'm like, man, this guy knows his stuff. Because everybody, all of the

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Jews are of the sons of Abraham. But not all of the sons of Abraham are the sons of Jacob.

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That's what Hebrews is talking about. Not all of Abraham's sons are sons of prophets. Yeah, and they kind of struggle a little bit, the

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Muslims, with the divinity of Jesus. Because it's crazy. Oh, they. God himself coming down and being born of a virgin.

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And bleeding from every port. Christians don't even believe that. Oh, it was like, it was what?

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I'm like, oh. Oh, it was like. I'm like, no, I believe it was.

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I mean, Mosiah says that. And D &C 19 says that. We have three triple. Promises.

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Testaments. That's the way it was. But, I mean, one of the retired seminary teachers, he was teaching a couple of months ago.

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He said, I clicked him on. We were traveling from California to Utah.

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And he says, I listened to the preacher. And he believed in the Bible. But he didn't believe that Jesus bled from every port.

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I think it's symbolic that he died for all of us. Just not one of us. Just not everyone but the one dimple.

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But the cross man, the broken leg man, everybody. Okay. So, where do you guys stand on that?

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Are you denying the blood of Jesus? Oh, not at all. He bled out every port.

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The Bible was saying he bled. He bled blood. That's kind of simple to me, too.

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But I just listened on. Are you familiar with the magazine Christianity Today?

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Yeah, for sure. And who was it founded by and when? Oh, I don't know. I know the magazine, but I don't read it.

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I read it all the time when I was at BYU. Because I served my mission in the Bible Belt in Houston.

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And I had never seen the Bible twisted and taken so many different directions.

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I'm like, woo! You know, you can't give blood, the Bible says. You can't vote, the

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Bible says. You can't raise the flag, the Bible says. The girls can't wear pants, the Bible says.

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I mean, I've attended those churches. I've seen it again and again. So I was like...

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And I wouldn't have known the date, but Billy Graham was basically the instigator of Christianity Today.

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And it started in 1953. And she was saying Christianity is being adopted by the world.

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And Christianity Today, the magazine, is supposedly teaching The true teachings of Jesus are talking about the woke issues.

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It's distressingly liberal now. That's kind of sad. Well, I kind of like it. I bought a...

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I can remember One of the advertisements was

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Be baptized in Christianity Today. Be baptized the way Jesus was baptized.

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So you could send out And have sent in Water from the river

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Jordan. And be baptized the way Jesus was baptized. For a modest sum,

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I'm sure. And I'm like, woo! Baby! That's funny. So I got a little

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Instigator tube. And this lady Her husband was converted.

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She heard me speak At a baptism, and she goes I think that's the best talk on baptism

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I've ever heard. And part of my thing was I put a little blood in a test tube.

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Or water in a test tube. And I shook it. And I said We're not going to be baptized

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The way Christianity Today advertisement says. We're going to be exactly baptized just like Jesus was baptized.

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Baptized by immersion. Romans 6 It's clearly he was baptized unto death.

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And he was raised With us in the resurrection. And just as Everyone is baptized

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Everyone Will be resurrected. So if they live with God That's symbolic

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That they need to be born again. Born of the water and of the spirit. That's John chapter 3 verse 5.

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So It was sad That The I got a

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Messenger list from a girl That we taught. She had a vision. And We taught her three discussions on Friday.

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Stayed at Grandma's house. President Radcliffe's Grandma's house. And then we taught her three the next day.

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And then she was baptized the next day. And her Her Bible Baptist faith

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The rumor was that the LDS Church had kidnapped her. Chained her to a bed post.

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And they were forcing her to be baptized. And I'm like Woo! Well That's a new one to me.

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She's She's Kind of at her wits end.

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I mean Christians and what's Happening against Christians All over the earth.

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So I It's one of my The rapture has been

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Misinterpreted for so many Years. But I And the way the House of Christ Interprets it

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One of my favorite verses I don't have it memorized yet but Isaiah 65 17

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For behold I create a new heaven and a new earth. One of the

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Preachers that I taught He says all of the prophecy of the Old Testament was Fulfilled in Jesus Christ.

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And I'm like Oh really? Well show me A lamb With a lion

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And one of these babies playing at a Yeah. So There's some of it that's clearly like end of the world

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That's clearly coming to pass. And the farmer Shall not

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And the former shall not be remembered Nor come into mind Because So all the problems

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That we're having on earth Shall not be remembered Nor come to mind.

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So once Christ comes We will not even remember How good

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Or how bad it was now Because it's Going to be that good

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When Jesus is here And I've got a pretty good memory My wife says that When I look at a

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Glass It's not half It's not half full half empty

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My glass is half empty And the half that's empty Is full of poison My oldest daughter said that Because she says dad

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He's negative against everything Because I said well I know what's going on I'm not in Facebook denial

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I mean somebody's struggling Spiritually and all you see Is their Bahamas And all you see is their beach

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And all you see is the smile Well yeah I mean We just had that case a few weeks ago

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Of a guy that like killed his wife and himself And they were Like just up the road

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And they had the same kind of thing It was in American Fork I think That it happened where this happened

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And it was like it was the same kind of thing Like from the social media perspective Everything was fine Everything was cool

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But only the people that like knew them well Knew that their marriage was struggling And nobody knew how bad it was

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So yeah I see totally what you're talking about Well I My kids my wife

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Can't you see Can't you see Can't you see Their countenance

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Can't see Their countenance I can remember I looked at something That I wasn't supposed to And I brought a darkness in the apartment

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It was evil And I Called my wife out in the hall I said can't you see the darkness

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Can't you see it it's right here She's like I can't see things the way you do So I read a conference talk

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And I was like huh And then I turned off the light it was still and then

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I flipped to Helaman chapter 13 where I wasn't anyway And it says demons roundabout and I'm like, wow

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How did that the power of the Book of Mormon chase that demon spirit out just by me reading the chapter?

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And that was the chapter that I was lined up to read any There's I've dated

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I dated a girl Told her she was possessed And she was returned missionary the

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Relief Society president and nine months After we stopped dating

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Oh, yeah I proposed to my wife and the first night the first day that the ring was on her finger that girl dated called me back on his date date again

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I Wonder if the devil knew that this

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Things the devil was doing the devil was in her the to talk to you is You you have never cast out a spirit.

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You've never seen someone that's possessed and how the body distorts. You've never felt You've never seen personally really

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Wow, well, you know who Michael Knowles is Yes Daily Wire guy, right?

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Yeah. Oh that guy. Yeah. He interviewed a Catholic priest and And it was about an hour and 45 minutes in the

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Catholic priest Laid out the whole plan and what happens and what it takes he says

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I didn't know what I was in for First time it happened. The devil's believed. I'll believe is there is a

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God. Oh, I'll do us Devils also believe in trouble. Yeah James. Yeah but so you guys never never

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I Mean what my little girl there was a girl She was very pretty and her husband was drunk and he didn't want to lose her and And we we did a lot for her and we had their family over dinner many many times and the kids drank the glass.

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Oh It that they were so stuck on soda pop that we flipped their face out when it was water

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And I'm like, wow five years of Coca -Cola Yeah Look when we went over to her house my little girl.

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She goes daddy She looks sick What's her countenance?

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I don't think Miriam looks so good. It wasn't just the leprosy there was a spiritual radiance

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I mean, I've been in situations where I've talked with individuals and I've been like that person. Oh, well, he probably has a demon

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They asked the missionaries to come over to their house because the teenagers

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The boyfriend was bringing it in and They said we get tired of having the clocks and things fly off the wall

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And first Samuel chapter 28 which of indoor and We said yeah, we can cast the spirit out without question but if you

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Invite them back in That's your free agency We can't stop them it kind of bothered me once we we taught a woman that the husband had

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We were at their house till one o 'clock husband in the drunken rage and slashed her cross the nose and across the throat and According to the principle of baptism.

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She couldn't get baptized until she was no longer living with so Because Christ saves us from sin not in sin, there's a big difference there

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I mean people are so confused with Mary Magdalene. Oh, yeah, Jesus forgave her.

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No He didn't condemn her. He told her to go and Sin no more.

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She hadn't repented yet. So even the Savior couldn't forgive her for something. She hadn't repented

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You You've never heard that If he's not condemning them if you're not condemning for somebody for their sins, how is it different from There's a big difference read the

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New Testament. It's throughout. Do you think Mary Magdalene believed that Jesus Christ was the Messiah? She wipes.

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Oh later. She did without question But Okay, that's

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Luke chapter 7 and that's the last verse if I remember right with the chapter before Mary of Magdalene it's a

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Christian heresy that she was the one that of which seven devils were cast

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Christian faiths for eons just because they're One verse away from each other the

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Christian world has assumed that they were the same woman I Don't take that stance.

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Neither did the Prophet Joseph Smith. They were two completely different women Okay, but when we finished with that it kind of made me mad that God hadn't revealed it to me

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We had baptized her and The chap that chapter and verse in the

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New Testament that my companion elder Adams read that morning about what happens when

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Someone has an evil spirit kicked out seven more Spirits will yearn to come back to that house and she said after her baptism

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She could feel The chaos outside her home

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Attack her and we're like and elder Adams just came right out and said the verse and I was like I Try to stay in the scriptures.

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I've been up since 330 the last two mornings right there. I Didn't realize that President Nelson had that DNC 119 when he told all the members of the church to read it.

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I didn't know that was for me I Felt a little closer to Gordon be

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Hinckley because when he came to Houston on my mission He quoted the New Testament verse so many times and so lengthy

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That I had it memorized and I'm like I Was really looking to his top white white

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For God hath not given us the spirit of fear But a power and of love and of a sound mind and God told me to move to California and I moved there for 23 years never paid rent

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Silicon Valley Never paid rent but I was like forgot but When you move with the family, what's the biggest fear?

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Are you gonna pay the bill? Yes provide for your family provide for the food closing. That's that's fear and I was like And Every message came from heaven this from the boxes from the videotape what

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I was listening to Why were you not there in San Jose when I called you and I'm like, okay

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Heavenly Father I'm trying to I dated girls for it while I was at BYU that were from California I'm like man, what faith are they members of?

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because they're more after the car the house and the career in the 401k and That's that's not what jeez that's not the retirement plan

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Jesus laid out I'm like And And I we slept on the floor of my

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Sister and brother -in -law's house ten days after we got there. My wife's mom died and she took the kids back and after five weeks my brother -in -law

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Told me not to say this, but he says they lived off one income. He had his master's in electrical engineering

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He's worked in the Oakland Temple for 20 years. He's bilingual. He's he's a brilliant boy

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One of my sister's workers says did you know your husband's? Probably one of the best in the world at what he does

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Has to take a polygraph every year and if he if he fails it he loses his job everybody he talks

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Out that's not a member of it That's not a citizen from another country

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They have to log in why he talked to them and about what and for how long but he's so humble.

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I mean my sister So so Eric so when when he finished that he he said

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I I Want to apologize. He said I was praying For you to have to stay at our house longer

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And there's things a brother can say Are you married?

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Nope You're married. That's my beautiful wife right there. Yeah, so so a brother can get away

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Oh Proverbs 17 17 a friend loveth at all times a brother is born for adversity

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I share with my brother all the time. That's good. And when it's a good one Well, I don't just share it with brothers.

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I share right spiritual brothers and everything and when I paid him $300 for Our money the food that we've been eating

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It I didn't want to be at a bank and I was like well now I know why they're all against the white

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All the bank board were white males and everybody at the teller booth had dark hair and dark skin and I'm like and the rates

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For savings. I'm like this isn't the bank. This is bankrupt bankruptcy, so if if he made me a member of his credit union and And honored me it

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I said, well, I need you I need to pay you $5 because she started my $5 so I gave him $300 for food

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He banked he was at the same credit So he donated my $300 back into my account.

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He didn't even let me pay for food Because he knew how much Me being there helped

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So so Eric Going back to even like numbers 12 talking about Moses Yeah, so so why should

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I believe that Joseph Smith is a prophet because he is Why should I believe that is it your experiences that make me need to believe that he's a prophet of God because you're giving me

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All your experiences I can talk to you. You don't have you don't have you didn't have a come -to -Jesus experience

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Well, did you ever tell anybody about that? Oh, yeah, we have that kind of stuff I'm at the younger

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He was a big sinner in the Book of Mormon and again and again and again and again

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He reiterated his his sins in his come -to -Jesus moment again and again

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Wasn't afraid of people knowing even though he was Here's the thing Eric. So as a standard, I'd reject the

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Book of Mormon is even something that teaches me Yeah, how to know God I would say that but hold on Eric Hold on you've been talking like for 15 minutes

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You haven't read the Book of Mormon as many years as you are old. I know I know you've read it a bunch

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That's fine. You can note as much as you want. I think it's a book of fiction. That's great Well, so listen Romans tells me that the gospel is the power of God for salvation

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My testimony is not the power of God for salvation. My experiences aren't the power of God for salvation Listen, I can talk to a new -age person and they can tell me all of the experiences

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They've had with casting out demons They can tell me experiences they've had of making things levitate But their

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God isn't the same God that even Joseph Smith would teach nor is it the same God of the Bible, right? There's even stories of Muslims who can cast out demons, right?

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Oh good, but does that make it good good people do good things? I I think the Bible teaches in Romans chapter 3 that there's no one who is good

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No one seeks God all have gone astray right and similarly in we're not talking about I'm not talking for all of sin to come short of No, I'm saying there are none because the

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Bible says from the Apostle Paul in Romans chapter 3 so no one is good So who babysits your kids? nobody

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We're talking about our view Okay, so so you've never left your children with a good babysitter

35:20

You haven't embedded your babysitter. Well what I'm talking about here, though My kids have been molested before right, right, right just so I'm sorry to hear that by the way.

35:28

No, I'm just stating the fact Right. No, I get it. I get it and then I went to 16 hours of praise

35:34

Jesus with the guy and he said if you go to mine, I'll go to yours two months later

35:39

You know why he said that he didn't come to mine because my little boy molested his girl

35:45

And I said, you know why you're pathetic because if that's what happened, you should have knocked on my door 35 days ago

35:51

Yeah, I said that's a bogus story that's fiction that's fiction what a boil down to he just didn't want to come to my face

35:59

Even though he promised he would have for 16 hours. He bought me a t -shirt. He bought me the music

36:05

Sounds like you might have some root of bitterness inside. You know, I'm just stating facts just stories getting a little intense, though Oh, oh, but Eric, but wait wait for me.

36:13

So I think I think I know I know you can get pretty charismatic But um, I think in terms of categories right before God, oh no one is good

36:24

So there's faults so there's false prophets and true prophets. Amen, right? Okay, so there has to be

36:30

Well, why I told you to three four weeks ago. There has to be a true prophet to make the rest faults, right?

36:36

Yes, so that's why Jesus said false prophets would come That means that there would be a true prophet on the earth to make the rest fault

36:44

Was there a true prophet on the earth no, no Jesus said that hang on in the time Right from the time that the

36:52

Book of Mormon Concluded around the mid -fifth century. Okay from that time

36:59

From it was like 400 said it's supposed to be good, right? the end of the story of the

37:04

Book of Mormon took place a Rent what I'm saying is from the end of the Book of Mormon to the time that Joseph Smith showed up There were no legitimate prophets, right?

37:13

Okay, that's Amos 8 Okay So for that period of time for they shall wander to and fro

37:20

Seeking the Word of the Lord they shall go here. They shall go there, but they shall not find it They'll go everywhere looking for the

37:27

Word of the Lord and they can't find it The only reason why they can't find it because it's not here Okay, so they're looking everywhere were there false prophets in the world at that time my people who claim to be prophets and worked

37:39

No, because So you would say that Muhammad was a genuine prophet because he was there during that time.

37:45

There was a there was No one can be a true prophet

37:51

No one can be a true prophet unless they testify of Christ, right? Did Muhammad testify of Christ?

37:57

No, that's So when you were he's pressing something else if he doesn't say

38:04

Jesus, right, okay Earlier if I understood correctly what you were saying is in order for there to be false prophets

38:11

There have to be a true prophet on the earth. Just like the grocery store. Okay, so Do you hear what he's saying?

38:18

No, so but we're both admitting that there was a period of time There was nothing.

38:24

Well, no There was right. Okay, let's let's turn to Amos chapter It's really good

38:30

Eric just listen So what you were saying if I understand correctly is that in order for there to be false prophets there has to be a living

38:37

True prophet during that time. There's no better. There's no time. We need a living prophet

38:43

So that's not that's not what I'm saying. Jesus forgets us at the end of time. That's not that's not what I'm saying.

38:49

Okay Did you say? That in order for there to be any false prophets at any time

38:56

I just said what Jesus said there will be false prophets. Okay, we're there to be false prophets

39:03

There has to be a true one to make it restful So there has to be a true one that is living at the time that the person is

39:09

Jesus didn't say that. Okay Okay, gotcha. Okay, there has to be one true one suspended in space with this type of revelation suspended in faith

39:16

Moses wasn't suspended in faith. He was down on earth talk Okay, this is what we're trying to understand real quick Eric What what

39:24

Ryan is saying is that he's trying to understand what you're the point you're because it sounded like you were saying that in Order for somebody to be a false prophet there has to at that same time

39:33

True prophet, that's what I heard. Yeah, so so that's the case. Okay, so there was

39:40

If that wasn't the case Jesus would have said I'm done there will be prophets prophesying

39:48

No, he distinguished the difference. He said there will be false Prophets, right.

39:54

So there has to be a true prophet to make the restful at the same time Just as in the days of Noah, so shall it be in the days of coming the

40:02

Son of Man. So How many people listen to Noah? Hey, hey, did that stop him for me?

40:12

So just because you don't believe that Joseph Smith was the prophet of God doesn't stop him from being

40:17

Right and if he was a genuine prophet of God the fact that we deny that wouldn't change anything about him

40:23

He would still be a prophet of God, right? Okay. All right What I'm saying is it sounds like you're saying that in order for it like if he starts saying right now.

40:34

I Andrew am a prophet of God and he and he's a false prophet under those circumstances.

40:39

Sorry, buddy, but you would be a false prophet That the only way that that would be possible is because there is currently a genuine prophet

40:47

But if we were talking about like throughout the Old Testament the Kings go

40:55

We like all these 400 prophets because they prophesy good things But not that guy don't bring down Nathan.

41:03

He's Don't bring him in my neighborhood He doesn't talk nice to me, but he's saying though.

41:09

He's talking about God Muhammad claimed to be a prophet But according to Right, and so was there a legitimate prophet serving in the early 600 let's let's let's read

41:26

Amos chapter 8 verse 11 and 12. It's very clear. I really like that. So what so they return to it sure

41:36

Where did I it's in here somewhere my goodness, I'm like a woman Are you a

41:43

Gideon? I've got another just read from my oh,

41:50

I know. That's why I said you only have the New Testament So he is like a Gideon. Oh, thank you a genuine.

41:55

He's got the old and the new you proved my point Okay, let me see here I like Amos Amos 3 7 surely the

42:10

Lord God will do nothing but He revealeth his sir his secrets unto his servants the prophets.

42:18

I think the mystery has been fully revealed It's stated in Colossians If that was the case, there would only be one sure church on the earth, but the the

42:27

Bible and Well, the Bible on Matthew 28 earnest of it is it's a mess. Well, there's different denominations.

42:34

So even though yes Classes That's not a standard you're actually holding to the own.

42:40

No, Isaiah a standard an enzyme a banner That I'm big on Isaiah Are you big on Isaiah 43 10 before me?

42:51

Oh god You like Isaiah where it fits your worldview, but you don't like Isaiah He spoke to the

43:06

God that was on Sinai and that was that was there was one guy that was Christ That was a pre -incarnate right? No.

43:11

Well, you're pre -incarnate What's it God the Father or was it Christ? It was your interpretation of the

43:18

Trinity is a mess. No, it's John 1 a cement Already we went over this last time. No, just because are you wiser than the disciple

43:25

John Eric? Did you walk? Hey, it's hey, I Have spoken with Christians that know the

43:31

Bible better than you that they understand the Godhead just like I do

43:38

Any Christian that denies the Trinity is not in fact a Christian. Oh, okay. Yeah proceed

43:44

That's that that's that I mean, it's clearly revealed. Well, if it was clearly revealed there would only be one

43:50

Church of Christ No, but it's a mess. Well, if you're saying there would only be say clearly

43:56

He won't he won't apply the same standard said the LDS religion So, I mean there's a bunch of different like there's disagreements in the religious religion over I just heard this this week.

44:06

See if you like I got a hat on Gold Frankincense and Murr.

44:15

Did you say murder Judas? Oh, so one of the twelve was bad, too 17 son of prediction predestined to occur.

44:25

No Your understanding of antichrist, do you believe it's one person?

44:35

No, there's no anti -christ. Thank you Can I tell you something really? I actually think you're anti everybody

44:41

Oh, I know you believe that because you deny that Jesus Christ is the eternal God who came in the flesh

44:47

That's what John is stating. Okay, you don't know you don't know Jesus or the father. Well, you're judging me. No, the scriptures judge you

44:52

Oh, oh, oh, yeah, I know that's how you interpret the Bible the

44:58

Bible is of Higher significance than Peter or Paul because we read what we he says so we understand what he says

45:06

Even though the guy across the street understands it different But the word is our judgment

45:12

Well, even in your own religion You have some people that say well the Book of Mormon took place in this part of the world now there

45:21

Yes, the Book of Mormon clearly says from the sea east to the sea west from the sea north to the sea south

45:28

So what's the definition of sea It's the sea here

45:35

It's the sea. Well, then you haven't broken down the Book of Mormon. Well, you can't go to the original language

45:41

You have to go to English. What is the sea? It's what the English language says the sea is if we have a dispute over a word in the

45:49

New Testament We can go to the New Testament and we can dissect that word. So how it's used

45:55

Okay, is that what Miriam and Aaron were doing was dissecting Moses's words no

46:03

They were This guy is not a legitimate prophet and they were saying have we not also spoken for God?

46:10

Okay, they were claiming tacitly to be prophets Yep, Miriam was a prophetess.

46:19

Yeah, but they were in so doing but Wasn't speaking for the church

46:24

God prophesied to her and she did many marvelous works, but she didn't speak for the church God so Moses spoke for the church.

46:32

So and for the Covenant House of Israel in Exodus 15 When we were told that that entire chapter right there that whole song of Miriam was given by the prophetess

46:44

Miriam Miriam had the authority at that point to actually deliver

46:49

Scripture what was it? Authority structure of the

46:55

Mormon Church Have the authority to give new scripture. Can could somebody kind of woman in the church?

47:03

Actually, this is the the authority issue was a big one from what we've been talking about Because you mentioned you were surprised when you heard that we hadn't cast out any demons

47:11

We don't have according to what your church is saying. We don't have the proper authority Bible doesn't have the authority throw

47:18

Bible out That's the demon will run and you're not responding to what the Bible has so much strength.

47:24

That's facetious. There you go That's how you're taking it. I believe the Bible is the infallible Word of God We would have

47:32

Isaiah 40 verse 8 Thank you, thank you

47:38

Eric, so Isaiah 40 verse 8 I didn't get one until I was literally an adult

47:50

And the teacher says put all your phones away and my daughter says she doesn't I don't have one

47:55

Oh, shut up and quit lying to me the whole class jumped on her. No, she doesn't have one.

48:00

Yeah, right But we bought her a cell phone finally for Christmas So I was gonna go talk to the teacher and I said you called my daughter a liar.

48:11

Yeah, what she's not Yeah, just because we don't follow a multitude to do evil well doesn't mean my daughter has itself, right?

48:20

Yeah, let's get into it So Isaiah 40 verse 8 the grass withers the flower fades, but the Word of our Lord endures forever, right

48:25

Hebrews It's sharper than any two -edged sword Right cuts all the way down to the division between the soul and the spirit to me

48:31

The Word of God is an objective standard above my own sense experience So when Moses is delivering the word hold on when

48:37

Moses is delivering the Word of God a revelation from God is Necessary for us as following individuals in order to understand and know

48:44

God But if you deny the infallibility of Scripture from previous prophets, you're gonna be led astray like a false prophet like Joseph Smith Well, so where do we where do you stand on circumcision?

48:54

I believe that circumcision was it's no longer something necessary But there was trouble in the

49:01

New Testament. That's right. Yeah Paul straight -up said if you believe that circumcision is necessary, okay, but he

49:11

Paul disagreed with Peter and Acts It wasn't pretty. Well, yeah, they don't you don't read

49:17

You know what? I'm talking. Oh, I've read out. Yeah, okay. They didn't perfectly agree because They were given what it's what it

49:26

James James is second witness. So James spoke up inside was he on He was on Peter What you mean on X 15 and X 15 they were all in agreement

49:38

After they argued after they discussed That's why Paul had to go to them

49:44

Because he was hearing people saying a bunch of nonsense about needing to be circumcised and he goes to them and he says hey just So we're all clear just so I'm not

49:53

I know I'm not crazy and just misinterpreting things Hey, we're saying that under the new covenant

49:59

You do not have to join the old covenant ie be circumcised. So in order to receive

50:07

I know of this. No. No, I've attended. Yeah. Did you maybe maybe

50:13

I could send you the revelation? Dr.

50:19

Ben Carson. Oh, okay. I was running for president at one time. Yeah. Yeah He told Donald Trump that he would be president.

50:27

He was wrong in years He was president. No, he dr.

50:33

Ben Carson said Trump you will I know you just I'm not that stupid to make that huge mistake.

50:43

Yeah, that's my thing being stupid. So, oh, I'm dumb I'm not I tried not to be stupid.

50:49

Yeah, there's the dip. It's hard sometimes so he he was interviewed by Tucker Carlson last week and he

50:58

Came out and said that he he told Donald Trump that you will be president the

51:03

United States. He's like He kind of easy and Tucker said so what did he said? He goes.

51:09

I he kind of thought I was great He says so are you gonna run I could tell I like to hear people's testimony

51:16

When I watch the news and look back and I'm like, dr. Ben Carson did not want to be president the

51:24

United States He doesn't have the personality for he right He gave up when my son my son has his picture cover to cover

51:30

He's his dad when I saw all the candidates in Iowa in 2016, dr. Ben was the guy that was most impressed

51:39

He's a he's a brain surgeon the guy's smart so why should we believe that's a true problem get back to you said

51:45

Amos Okay, I took my Bible out of my bag,

51:51

I know right name is a very Okay, I had it for half a second

52:00

And this is referring to like the darkness of the apostasy, is that is that That way how you're there will be a famine in the way

52:09

Okay, a mistake. All right. So let's start. Uh, can I read this one? Sure go for it. Yeah No, I'm in King James.

52:15

Okay, a title page calls it ill -meaning and discontented persons from their own translators themselves

52:22

So every every time we run into a word in italics that say they didn't agree on this one

52:29

Behold the days come said the Lord God that I will send a famine in the land not a famine of bread nor a thirst for water but of hearing the word of the

52:40

Lord and They shall wander from sea to sea and from the north even to the east

52:47

They shall run to and fro to seek the word of the

52:52

Lord and shall not find it So, why shall I not find it if it was here, so help me understand help me understand your interpretation of that scripture that It's not my interpretation

53:04

I just read what Amos said, right? So when did that take place? So you twist? No No, I didn't I never even interpreted it.

53:09

I'm asking you. When did it take place? When do you think that took place that that's like when was it? Well, when was that prophecy?

53:14

What do you mean fulfilled? I mean he's saying there's this thing that's going to happen. Amos did not have the political allegiance that Isaiah Isaiah prophesied during the reign of four kings

53:28

Amos's prophecy they probably knew each other right, but his prophecy was prophetic

53:37

Calendar was much shorter So when is there saying like that what happens near Like Amos is predicting this thing will happen in prior to Christ or after Christ and yes

53:52

Yes, and yes, we Hold on Prof prophecy to only have one

54:07

No, I know that there's only one correct interpretation, but but it could have been

54:18

Like well like Isaiah. Yeah, I understand what you're saying now. So you believe that it could have happened No, we can I'm just trying to understand what your position is real quick here

54:25

So you believe that prior to John the Baptist when the one who made straight the way of the Lord in the wilderness or okay?

54:32

before before Christ John the Baptist had the authority, okay

54:40

But things were thinning out Zacharias he knew the

54:48

Jews knew That the father knew where the son was

54:54

So what's the last thing that we hear about the prophet Zacharias? He did not he prophesied of his son's birth and what he should be named and did that not come to pass, right?

55:05

Okay. So where was his body found the New Testament tells us Zacharias his body found.

55:10

Yeah, tell me I'm He was still working in the altar of the temple, oh, yeah, it's not like a high priest.

55:17

Yeah. Yeah, okay So that's not even like dead. I was like so so I Mean I'm kind of filling in the blanks there, but I believe

55:28

We can't find John the Baptist But we know where his dad works And if he doesn't tell us

55:36

You know, I don't think we're gonna take too good to him So so for Amos you you take it as this happened prior to hold on quick prior to The John the

55:46

Baptist to make straight the way of the Lord in the wilderness, right? God was quiet for a time, but we would call the intertestamental period before Well, even in the book of Maccabees it says that they had trouble figuring out what to do with all of the

56:03

Temple because they specifically Did God forget them 100 % no, they were waiting for the

56:12

Messiah. No, they had talking about the Word of God Specifically the book of Maccabees says that there was no prophet like explicitly says there was no prophet at that time

56:21

So anyway, so you you interpret it then as no happens during it. Hold on. Just let me can

56:26

I understand Eric? I would say it could be both. I'm not limited so it can also refer to the great apostasy is what you're saying

56:34

Gotcha. Okay. So why should I believe then that it has anything to do with the great apostasy?

56:40

Like what evidence do I have according to the Bible in the New Testament that Christ would fail? Let's okay.

56:46

I could turn to Thessalonians. We could check turn to Exodus or Ephesians Ephesians chapter 4 18 19.

56:53

Let's turn to that go to Ephesians Is Ephesians 4? 18 and 19

57:01

Well, I know word is on the page. So I don't have to okay this I say therefore and testify in the

57:07

Lord that you should No longer walk as the rest of the Gentiles walk in the futility of their mind having their understanding

57:12

Darkened being alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them because of the hardening of their heart

57:23

This is the New King James Oh Pull it up on your your

57:37

King James and see if it's what you're thinking I Still like David David Graham After he fought against the church for 35 years as an attorney.

58:14

He came back. He says I was so confused I didn't know didn't know that sprinkle don't commerce or or worse.

58:21

Oh, I should I was gonna memorize it or Or stand kneel or sit?

58:29

Because you know, the Bible was all over he says I didn't know how to baptize I didn't sprinkle don't commerce or stand kneel or sit

58:40

Verse 11 over so he's just for isn't that the verse I said, I think he said 18 and 19. Oh, yeah

58:47

You got it pulled up just read it and he gave some apostles yep, and some prophets and some evangelists and some pastors and Teachers for the perfecting of the

58:59

Saints for the work of the ministry for the edifying of the body of Christ Till we all come in unity of faith and of the knowledge of the

59:09

Son of God unto a perfect man I I hear I hear upward trajectory there. I don't hear it off He said he said that's why he gave apostles and prophets until we all come in unity of faith

59:20

Okay, we're not in unity of faith. So that's the whole reason we still need apostles and prophets and that's what he was saying

59:26

But if that's what he's saying, then why do you have this period of more than a thousand years where there are no apostles and prophets?

59:34

It I mean if the implication is that God is going to continually give new Apostles and prophets throughout then why is it that the second second second

59:42

Timothy chapter 2? Okay verse Chapter or chapter 2 verse 1 now we beseech you brother and by the coming of our

59:51

Lord Jesus Christ Some bike are gathering together unto him that he be not soon shaken in mind or be troubled

59:59

Neither by spirit nor by word nor by letter What other way can you get the

01:00:05

Word of Lord? As from us as the day of Christ is at hand let no man deceive you

01:00:15

By any means for that day shall not come except there come a falling away first And that man of sin be revealed the son of perdition

01:00:27

Okay, so so he says Let no man deceive you So I'm just following the words of Paul.

01:00:34

So there would be a great falling away. Yeah That's what so what he says does he say right there that the priesthood authority would be removed from the earth

01:00:42

For that day shall not come except there come a falling away first Does he say so that their priesthood authority?

01:00:54

It Says I don't know what happened. He said that there would be a great falling falling a great Okay, so where does he say in that passage or in any other passage in the entire

01:01:03

Bible that the priesthood? So authority what is he talking about? Yeah, he says that there's gonna be a lot of people in that church that stop believing

01:01:11

Same thing happens in Revelation in the seven The seven churches he says if you don't stop doing all this

01:01:18

We're stuck on seven churches, there's more than seven church. That's what he says. He says

01:01:23

He writes letters to these churches and he says if you guys don't stop doing this Does that mean my church didn't you got her?

01:01:30

I'm not part of his church. You gotta let me finish Okay, he says in those letters to each individual of those seven of the many churches.

01:01:41

Oh, there's many more Yeah, okay. All right. We agreed there. All right. He says in those letters With one exception he says unless you stop fooling around and Repents of the sin that you're currently committing.

01:01:54

Oh, I will Hang on he says to the church

01:02:00

I will remove this church from the earth and that's what he did those churches no longer exist

01:02:08

That's what we're talking I do not believe he'd never Says oh, so I will remove so it's just the seven churches.

01:02:17

Eric Let me finish my thought

01:02:24

Where in Scripture does it explicitly or implicitly? state

01:02:29

That the priesthood authority He doesn't say anything about no actually

01:02:35

Said the opposite that had something to do with priesthood authority said exact opposite until they come

01:02:41

Into unity of faith. Yep. They did have unity of faith during the apostasy or no That's that's the reason for the restoration

01:02:50

No, you're not answering the question So if they were supposed to be there until that unity of that was the commandment, why would they disappear?

01:02:57

That was the commandment? Are you not hearing what we're saying? I don't think you understand what we're he he was saying.

01:03:03

It's that important He didn't say it was gonna happen He said till we all come in unity of faith because we're so we're your apostles and prophets

01:03:14

Right here. Oh, yeah. See they're in Scripture Yeah Yeah And we don't come up with the same problem that you're running into right now by trying to proof text things and contradicting yourself

01:03:22

You're contradicting the world Because you interpret Amos 8 through the lens of the

01:03:27

Church of Jesus Christ of Latter -day Saints We don't have that issue when trying to say that it has to do with Something in the future when it's just right listen when

01:03:34

Jesus Christ himself says on this rock I've established this church in the gates of hell will not prevail again.

01:03:39

So what is the rock? The rock is the gospel. No, not the gospel is the revelation of Jesus Christ Yes, and that is also the rock let's let's let's know it's not

01:03:50

Peter. It's not Peter. I think it's not here So let's go let's let's for flesh and blood have not revealed it unto thee right, but my father which is in heaven

01:03:59

What was revealed the gospel, okay, no, and I'm surprised you guys haven't used this verse yet Though we'll turn to Galatians chapter 1.

01:04:12

Yes. I'm sure you're familiar with it Well, that's how we normally

01:04:18

Let me just not read the verse. I'll continue. We should read all Galatians. Yeah, which is not another verse 7

01:04:27

But There be some that trouble you and would pervert the gospel of Jesus Christ. So we both agree with that Yeah, right people preach false gospels false

01:04:35

But though we or an angel from heaven preach any other gospel unto you than which we preach let him be a curse

01:04:43

Yep, so what's the key word in that verse? Oh There's a bunch of them. Hold on the biggest accursed

01:04:48

Other Okay, so Jesus didn't say they're preaching anything. He says they got to preach another gospel

01:04:55

So if they're preaching his gospel, are they a curse? No, because it's not another But it's

01:05:02

Christ's gospel verse 9. Do you preach Christ's gospel? Hold on. Let me Relations For do

01:05:10

I now persuade men or God or do I seek to for or do

01:05:17

I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be a servant of Christ, but I Certify you brethren that the gospel of Jesus Christ, which was preached of me is not after me

01:05:33

Neither I received it of man Neither was I taught it but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

01:05:42

That's the rock That Peter received he had it revealed to him that Jesus Christ was the

01:05:51

Son of God There was no other man on earth that he believed he had that Burning sensation of the

01:05:59

Holy Ghost it was revealed to him that Jesus Christ was the Son of God So for it's confirmed for neither.

01:06:08

I received it of man. Neither was I taught it By letters

01:06:13

Oh Or to the seven churches, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ, what's that gospel?

01:06:21

So let my son All up since I brought up revelation.

01:06:26

Yeah, I'll have to read Jake before He with his master's degree in finance.

01:06:33

He mocks dad. He says, oh dad. Do you have another revelation today? And Every time

01:06:44

I read through it again, I put another date Jacob I love

01:06:50

Nephi But a lot of second Nephi that everybody in the faith gives

01:06:56

Nephi the credit for it's always there It was Jacob No, it was

01:07:02

Jake But this is Jacob chapter 4 even speaks

01:07:09

French. Did you know that you haven't run into that? Oh the adieu thing Oh, that's the last verse in verse 7.

01:07:15

So you can see I've heard it but it's neither Well, people say oh, well, he uses a do that must mean that it must have a true.

01:07:22

I just don't find that one precise It's personal You know,

01:07:30

I could turn to it flip right to it, but behold

01:07:41

I just love motorcycles. Oh, yeah fastest way to Jesus Three motorcycles back on this road before I got married

01:07:52

God had to talk to me I hit a horse on my motorcycle 75 miles. You hit a horse. What year was that?

01:07:58

1992 June 9th Do you follow golf? No Well the the golfer that had won the most money on the whole entire planet

01:08:08

God talked to me every possible way. He could Tom Kite had won more money than anybody else

01:08:16

Never won a major Dr. Gil Morgan had a six -stroke late the last day the fog came in to Pebble Beach and that's when my memory returned and I'm thinking for myself and I had

01:08:35

I had killer killer breath if you can't smell and couldn't taste that was one of the side effects of the brain injury

01:08:41

God was trying to from the horse So so God had to humble me in every possible way because I didn't really believe that my sins would be forgiven until I talked to the bishop and he's

01:08:58

MD and lives on Osmond Lane, and he was oh, that's who I need to confess my sins to and I was

01:09:05

I had Five days in a row one one hour sleep one hour sleep one hour sleep one hour sleep

01:09:11

And I was lifting weights in the gym, and I normally max out it Rep 22 23

01:09:17

I was pumping 35 36 37. I'm like holy crap this holy ghost It's on fire

01:09:24

It can it can lift the weights just like 2 ,000 Sons of Mosiah not one of them were killed

01:09:30

Bruce Willis and unbreakable. Yeah, right. I've never seen that. Oh Yeah, I know I hear it is, but we don't agree on a lot of this

01:09:38

But you don't like that one my focus. I say we don't agree on a lot of movies, but that one is I focus more on Christmas Die hard Cuz what

01:09:48

Jesus was born oh, okay, cuz it was a Christmas movie right okay? Oh, I said

01:09:53

I said unbreakable not yeah different. Oh, I've never heard on break. Oh, okay anyway Keep going with you keep going your thoughts.

01:09:59

Sorry we can derail We're good at that how behold great and behold great marvelous are the works of the

01:10:08

Lord how Unsearchable are the depths of the mystery of him and It is impossible that should man should find out all his ways and no man knoweth of his ways

01:10:20

Save it be revealed unto him wherefore

01:10:26

Brethren despise not the revelations of God so I always mocked my son.

01:10:31

He goes I said oh Good you have another revelation. I said despise not

01:10:39

Right he's he's he served his mission. He's gay bought a house with his with this bum buddy, and and He's he's not doing too.

01:10:49

Well, and he he quit his job and can't and been turned down and you know what? I'm not worried about his bank account

01:10:58

I'm worried about his humility because he knows What he's doing is wrong, and he's made

01:11:05

Covenants in the temple just like Peter Washed his feet by Jesus and he says whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, don't do that He says

01:11:15

I have need to be washed if you and Jesus says if you don't have anything to do with this You have no need of me and Peter said all my all in baby elbows knees toes.

01:11:24

Yeah. Yeah, I'm there, baby I'm with you So so last time we were fasting for him while we were fasting

01:11:33

He fell off a scooter Broke his collar blown and five days later had kidney stones and he's moaning on the side of the toilet.

01:11:41

He's 25 and I'm like But Charles Smith he a trial of faith

01:11:53

He was actively fighting as an attorney from the University of Texas and Just out of the blue Missionaries tracked at him out.

01:12:04

I don't you've never given somebody a blessing and they've been healed like that Again like James, this is

01:12:15

James if anyone be sick among you let him call for the elders of the church Anointing him with oil in the name of the

01:12:23

Lord. So, you know the Bible the Bible works Oh, so he said I was

01:12:29

I had West Nile virus and he says I was sweating like a pig

01:12:34

He says I could not even stand up and my my son. I don't know why he let the missionaries in and And he says

01:12:45

I was screaming at him. I said I told him get out of my house And He said

01:12:52

I don't want you in here and they go well Would you allow us to give you a blessing he says if I allow that will you get out of my house and they said

01:13:01

Yeah, he was healed and Walked them to the door. So he called the state president

01:13:07

And he said what do I have to do to become a member of the church again? He says

01:13:13

Well, I remember you when you called me seven years ago and the answer remains the same

01:13:19

He wasn't humble yet So he's got a 35 year old story no, he just didn't try to tell

01:13:30

He he was he was fighting against and one of the guys he caught online

01:13:38

So so with the 20 30 years with that text from Jacob, are you stating that Can you help me understand how you're tying that into revelation?

01:13:46

Not the revelations Question again is how do

01:13:52

I know? Yeah, I'm Joseph Smith actually brought revelation. You've never had revelation yourself Okay, how did

01:14:03

Peter receive the understanding that Jesus was the Son of God It was revealed to him by the

01:14:11

Father is born spirit. So that's what I'm talking about That's the rock of revelation, well, well, how do

01:14:17

I know that that the revelation in Jacob here is True despised

01:14:24

So so you don't believe Revelation has happened with any Christian since the day of Peter.

01:14:30

Well, here's the thing. I'll grant you no asking a question I'll answer right now. I'll grant you continuing revelation just for the sake of the conversation.

01:14:36

I'll grant it to you Okay, but the question again is how do you know whether or not it is from God?

01:14:42

I'll give it to you all day Okay. No, I I spoke to a I preached to a pastor

01:14:52

Church of Christ and we taught him all six discussions and I was only in that area for three months

01:14:58

We went to his church and that was the church that women can't speak in church, right?

01:15:03

So that was one of them There's many different faiths, but that was one of the different groups that take that scripture that way

01:15:13

And he says, oh you have that authority and I go yeah, he's just well, let's

01:15:19

Let's see a miracle and I go I said what

01:15:25

Jesus say about that when he was asked Adulterous generation secret after a sign

01:15:31

I tracked it out of this his wife The Holy Ghost revealed to me that he was having an affair on his wife

01:15:39

And as you can tell me, I think you know me by now a little bit Yeah, I'm not afraid to talk to anybody

01:15:44

The Holy Ghost burned me off the book off the porch because I was so afraid of saying what

01:15:53

God told To say and I didn't do it She would understand what prophecy was when it's 15 years later

01:16:02

And she found out that her husband had an affair on her. Oh, that's stupid elder

01:16:08

LDS that one that had bad haircut and and he was riding his bike bozos on bikes.

01:16:14

That was one of them. Yeah I'm sure that was very persuasive haven't heard that one before but I was wimpy and I was afraid

01:16:27

And I really really really tried To promise

01:16:34

God The for I am NOT ashamed of the gospel of Jesus Christ So I was like, you know, no matter how

01:16:47

Did you do you follow politics at all I try to actively avoid it, but I think we're getting

01:16:54

Tell me what hold on this experience how does it hold on do you trusting it? You know, I talked I talked to the prop.

01:17:00

I talked to the preacher. Yes, and he asked me the same question I didn't ask you about about how do you know this feel?

01:17:09

Oh, and he says, how do you know? It's not Harbor And I said, you know what?

01:17:15

Anybody who has never had that feeling Tries to make the comparison but the person that has had the feeling

01:17:29

Doesn't need to compare it to anything because God spoke to their soul and they know just like Peter Flash and blood have not revealed it unto me

01:17:40

But my father who art in heaven so and that's that's the power

01:17:45

No, I'm not talking Galatians 523. Love joy. Peace I got a daisy, you know

01:17:56

Why should I trust to you that it's the Spirit of God? Yeah Give you when you give a when you give a revelation.

01:18:02

I trust you did You can have that Same revelation that Peter had for yourself

01:18:10

Don't believe me You can have it for yourself. It's possible I've the same know when when

01:18:17

I I went into the temple, but the thing is though It's a say something comes to me. Okay, say something gives me

01:18:23

I'm not talking something. I'm talking power I'm not talking love joy, right? No, I get that.

01:18:29

I get that Eric. So say a power comes to me Overshadows me. Okay, and then I have this feeling above all feelings amazing, but you haven't had it

01:18:38

So right Salt tastes like I've never tasted salt. Okay God himself he appears to me and he brings me revelation or so.

01:18:50

He says he's gone. Okay. Um, why should I believe? was Paul deceived

01:19:00

No, did people did people think that what happened to Paul was kind of crazy

01:19:05

I don't know how I know that Paul wasn't deceived though Acts 17 11 right the Jews the

01:19:10

Bereans were more noble than those in Thessalonica in that when Paul came and preached to them Right, they received the word with all readiness in mind

01:19:17

But what they do they searched the scriptures daily to see whether what he was saying was so and even when we were talking them for cross -checking his

01:19:25

Revelation with previous revelation No, did before Paul have that revelation from heaven

01:19:35

Was was he a student of the Old Testament? Oh, yeah, man Didn't save his soul now did it?

01:19:40

Yeah God had to talk a little different, right?

01:19:47

Yeah, why do you also mentioned earlier when we were talking about Muhammad when I said Muhammad one of the ways that you know that Muhammad was not a legitimate prophet

01:19:55

Oh, I said because he did I said that's check number one. You have to check number one Jesus. So we so he doesn't right

01:20:00

Okay, so that's a test of doctrine We know that he's a false prophet even without looking at any claims of him being able to give like predictive prophecy

01:20:09

Which he totally failed at no one or I want to say Or Christ and Joseph Smith a

01:20:15

Jesus Christ not a Jesus Christ, that's the problem. Well your definition of the Bible's Okay, we can say your

01:20:24

Interpretation of the Bible's of it and your interpretation of the Bible. Why should I trust Joseph Smith's interpretation over the

01:20:30

Bible itself? That's the question Just just throw throw your belief to the wind and run to a thousand one of thousand churches

01:20:41

I went I went to I'm not sure how that I can apply the same standard Actually, the standards worse if you consider the

01:20:47

LDS organization because there's not just in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter -day Saints There's the FLES. There's the RLD All kinds of different churches with other different prophets who claim their own authority

01:20:56

Okay, hold on hold on, but the difference is at least within biblical Christianity and Orthodox Christianity. We have lots of denominations

01:21:02

I give you that Jesus Christ says to go preach the gospel to all tribes tongues and nations. Hold on you have more than ours

01:21:09

Yeah, okay, absolutely, but the standard you're giving is if there's any at all, it's not true. Yeah, and you know that you have

01:21:14

You keep quoting it but listen listen denominations within Christianity don't differ on who

01:21:23

God is How we are saved I've been there. I've been to their church. Yeah, but you quote you quote

01:21:28

Church of Christ No Campbell. I'm restoration God God sure

01:21:34

Somebody God the Catholic Church is not a Christian organization But here's the thing not even the Catholics tonight that you would have to that's not even the

01:21:40

Catholics and my interpretation. Well, okay Well, I mean we can't if everything is just a matter 110 % yeah, okay, then they're good.

01:21:51

No, that's not what they also believe in Barrett's. No, we didn't say Trinity Simple category error if I say

01:22:10

You need air in order to survive. I'm not denying that you also need food and water

01:22:17

You need to be brought to an understanding of the Trinity not necessarily right away

01:22:23

But I'm we're talking about like a Christian organization Where there's official doctrine that is taught there if your organization does not

01:22:33

Acknowledge the doctrine of the Trinity as it is taught in Scripture. It is not a genuine

01:22:39

Christian organization But because but we're not That I tracked it out

01:22:50

Didn't have the faith To get back but He believed in the

01:23:00

Godhead 100 % just like us and I said, how'd you come to that conclusion? He goes I read

01:23:05

Bible And I'm giving him a high -five and then he believed in baptisms for the dead

01:23:11

And and and he said well the Bible talks about I said, oh, I know the Bible briefly mentions

01:23:16

So I've been called not briefly. No briefly does There's a particular version. So Jesus wept.

01:23:22

That's only two words. So that means it's not true because it's only two No, I'm saying that the that the book of 1st

01:23:28

Corinthians does not go into what? The teaching is it says what shall they do which are bad?

01:23:36

If the dead rise not at all. He's talking to the people that don't believe in the resurrection guys

01:23:43

Guys, you are doing baptisms for the dead, but if you don't believe in the resurrection, why the

01:23:49

Samuel are you doing it? So there is a practice that he refers to as baptism I is a bozo on a bike stopped in Catholic priest.

01:23:59

He we shared it with him He went into his monastery and dug it out of his books that you guys don't have the money to buy.

01:24:08

That's true Yeah, and he came out and he goes. Whoa. What do you know?

01:24:14

Elders you taught me something that's something today. He says that's something I did not know and he turned around walked away

01:24:20

We're like, we'll stick around. We'll teach so What you're not talking to Catholics Catholics will throw in there.

01:24:27

There's a reason for why they would include certain of the extra biblical books in their canon as of 1546 and it's because those extra biblical books that are not scripture will sometimes speak of people praying for the dead

01:24:43

Those things are not scripture. Those things are not God breathe when I said Paul briefly mentions a practice that is referred to that's only two

01:24:52

You gotta listen you said breathe that you got a list we're talking category you have to you got to listen what

01:24:58

I'm saying When I said Paul referred to a practice that is called Baptism for the dead.

01:25:04

He did not sit there and explain he didn't have to because they didn't You gotta let me reference to it.

01:25:11

Was he referring to Mormons or no? You have to let me Mormon is the name of a man who was a prophet

01:25:19

Was he referring to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter -day Saints Since they were perfectly familiar with it were they doing the same practices they do in the grant that he wrote the letter to Or he would explain more.

01:25:28

He says you guys are doing it. That's a great assumption It's an argument from silence. You're saying because he doesn't show one.

01:25:35

Yeah, we could turn to 1st Peter 3 18 19

01:25:46

That's right there that's that's was preached in the past No, those who are dead present.

01:25:53

Those are it's this isn't a matter of interpretation. It's a simple verb form Well, I I was

01:25:58

I was at the Bible Sunday school when he goes. Yeah Jesus when he was on the cross for three days

01:26:03

He didn't know what he was doing He must have been on vacation for the three days He's he's a pastor of the people and he's clueless

01:26:16

It's kind of sad. I brought the missionaries because I attend all these other faiths

01:26:21

I think I need to see how that's a but here's the here's the issue again though, Eric How many how many faiths have you attended how many faiths?

01:26:28

Yeah, so I think you guys just read it over there One Lord one faith on baptism, that's Exactly.

01:26:34

Yeah, so I so there's Because I have gone to I don't know what you say by the

01:26:42

M Church. It's the Church of Jesus Christ You're not afraid of the name of Jesus. Are you know, that's the name of the church

01:26:48

I'm not calling this the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter -day Saints. It's a truth claim that I do not believe Well, that's still the nature.

01:26:55

No, it's it's more than that. It's a truth claim and honestly Of our church the

01:27:00

Church of Jesus Christ even the Church of Jesus Christ the girl that the girl that Has been working

01:27:09

I've worked she's run a tree business in California. She called me last week. She was on fire I said, you know what you made my day

01:27:17

Omar he's been Omar's her lead technician great guy and He doesn't he doesn't believe

01:27:30

Word it's what his pastor says and What pastor says from both?

01:27:36

Well, that's not what my pastor. So well, that's one of my pastor. He's very unhealthy. Oh Tremendously, that's what you do with the organization

01:27:46

So, hold on so that's that's a Moses that's a modern -day Moses, that's the prophet of God you do the same thing

01:27:52

There's a prophet of God he holds that person in high authority and uses his interpretation of Scripture to fundamentally don't believe his beliefs

01:27:59

It's not it's not an authority not and you interpret his interpretation. It's his revelation.

01:28:04

How do you know? We can either accept it or Reject it and he begs us to pray on our knees and search the scriptures

01:28:14

To confirm the revelation that he has received for the church now as I finish

01:28:20

He's he's so sick with nutrition that he was bundled over he's been having this problem for five six years and The emergency room doctor is a return missionary and member of our faith and she stepped out of her

01:28:34

Fourth dimension comfort zone. She goes Omar. You look like a good man. She goes

01:28:41

I'm a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter -day Saints. She goes. Oh, yeah

01:28:46

Mormon You mean I work with Mormons she goes no Mormon is the name of a man

01:28:52

He did the Reader's Digest version of all the prophets and he conjoined them into one book of Scripture and he called it in the

01:29:04

Book of in in the book of Mormon in the book verse one and I will call it the book of Mormon That's the record

01:29:14

So you disagree with and he with President Hinckley Because Hinckley was the one who after Russell M Nelson first came out and gave his thing where he said

01:29:24

It's it's got to be called Right after Russell M Nelson did this in the early 90s where he gave a talk where he said you've got to call the church by its proper name

01:29:32

You got a couple people of the church that members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter -day Saints. Okay the next Conference Gordon B Hinckley came out

01:29:39

Russell M. Ballard said at the same time then following conference Okay, Gordon B Hinckley who was if I'm not too greatly mistaken the prophet at the time you're greatly mistaken on what he said and how he said

01:29:51

He said Mormon means more good Okay. Yeah, so he's like, oh, yeah actually go use the name.

01:29:57

It's a good name. Who did the meet the Mormons campaign? Yeah, that was under both Gordon B.

01:30:02

Hinckley and then following with Thomas S. Monson Saying that Moses never cried

01:30:10

Repentance into the children of Israel. That's not at all what we're even talking about I'm saying that your prophets are inconsistent on the topic of what are you supposed to be called?

01:30:18

We could turn that we could turn to Isaiah chapter 37 or 38 Find out how

01:30:24

Isaiah was different What did that fix the problem that you've got?

01:30:29

Because you've got profits. Well, I mean, you know that for a period of four years in the 1830s

01:30:34

The name of Jesus Christ was removed from the title of your church. It was it is a matter of a story that is

01:30:42

That you're you're too stupid to believe that you're calling me stupid wherever Self came out and said it.

01:30:51

I tell you what if you hate I'll make you deal Hey, you come back here next week, which I would love to do. I do actually enjoy this like I'm actually excited

01:30:58

I will bring you citations. Oh exactly from your pro -moment sources Indicating that that's the case that for a period of four years from 1834 to 1838

01:31:09

The name of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter -day Saints was called the Church of the Latter -day Saints. No never was

01:31:15

For all for you want to put money on it because I'm broke Okay, I don't bet

01:31:22

I'm kidding. Okay the the church Before Joseph Smith received the revelation in D &C 115

01:31:32

The name when the church that Joseph Smith Originated was called the

01:31:37

Church of Christ Yeah for the first four years and the first eight years first eight years.

01:31:43

Okay, first eight years then you go to the Revelation But no, no this I heard this

01:31:49

Three weeks after I stepped out of Utah for this for the first time and brother

01:31:54

Theobald laid that on me and I started to shake like a witherwing because I'd never heard it before Oh my god

01:32:03

So I stood okay. I was like, oh, no, so you can if if you want I'm in I I don't want us to be like a big thing

01:32:10

But just for for the next time I will look up pro -moment sources That will tell me what that what the church was called and I'll bring things next week to show you

01:32:23

No, I baptized a polygamist that polygamy was an undercover revelation

01:32:32

That was When John Taylor was prophet and he was in hiding That God revealed that this was a true doctrine and it would never be taken again from the earth

01:32:43

So I knew my church history His dad his brother was an intern missionary when he saw the countenance and the halo on him

01:32:51

He says I want to be just like that. Well He didn't ask me. He didn't ask his brother to baptize him

01:32:59

He asked me my wife just had the baby so that was 29 years ago and he goes

01:33:07

What's this? Well, is your dad coming to the baptism and all his mom's and sisters were Dressed in their polygamy garb.

01:33:14

So they were easy Well, is your dad coming he goes, oh, yeah

01:33:21

He says it's the same church and I said That's what your church has been saying

01:33:31

It's not the same church 45 minutes later after I baptized him.

01:33:37

He gave me a hug of love Next day he was a church on fire 45 minutes early

01:33:44

God spoke to him and he knew That was another step

01:33:50

It wasn't the same church that his Progenitors his mother's his brother's his cousins had been telling him he had to go through two or three extra priesthood interviews by the mission president because they have a they have a they have a song a hymn in their polygamist faith that the day will come when all

01:34:15

The rages saints will be able to enter into God's house and they believe that stuff no,

01:34:21

I study history, so I I Attended another church that left the

01:34:30

RLDS Church when they gave women the priesthood if you want to see the

01:34:35

National Olympic pride of 15

01:34:42

Nations the church community of Christ is falling apart at the bootstraps and that's the only reason why they sold

01:34:54

And that and the translation of Joseph Smith because they can't even pay their bills and they're going in the toilet well they have

01:35:04

Doctor and covenants they have like a hundred And 64 revelations and in the appendix

01:35:20

They voted out baptisms for the dead they knew Joseph Smith taught them and they knew they were true, but The church voted it out.

01:35:32

So it wasn't the leader left upon apostles and prophets and the evangelists Christ himself being the chief cornerstone it was

01:35:41

Jesus doctrine by majority rules and I brought this up to a BYU professor and he pointed to me and so you're wrong

01:35:50

And I kind of step back and he says they have since voted it out

01:35:57

Yeah, so that's the historical record so whatever historical record that you bring oh

01:36:05

I'm not gonna be using there's no use you know, but it doesn't mean Just because it's a historical record doesn't mean that it's the

01:36:13

Word of God So you don't trust history that's produced by your own guys Cuz that's what I'm going to Okay, have you ever heard of the book

01:36:21

Oh Rough stone rolling. Yes. Okay What would you know?

01:36:28

I've read it. It's interesting. Okay, Richard Bushman author. I shook his hand in the temple.

01:36:34

Yeah, I found out I Told the BYU professor he he he traveled

01:36:41

Columbia. He traveled University circuit after his book he spent seven years on his book it was printed for the 200 year anniversary of Joseph Smith's birth on the title page

01:37:02

It said that Joseph Smith and Emma had 11 children and It's been 200 years since They proved that that was false

01:37:15

Okay, he didn't have 11 children he had 10 because Larry Miller has funded the

01:37:21

Joseph Smith papers project and All they had read was the historical record

01:37:28

Emma delivered a child They thought it said child it said chill She was sick and there was no mention ever in any other historical document of The baby, so they thought it was stillborn.

01:37:42

So so 200 year study of the history. They don't even know the name how many children

01:37:49

Joseph and Emma had as a historian I'm gonna say as a historian like you are.

01:37:55

It sounds like you study a lot Would you be able to take his sources and then study them or you're just gonna assume they're wrong without actually doing his research

01:38:02

Well, we could we could pull out my phone when I went to the Mosaic Church on Center I've I'm I'm friends with the guy and I'm going over to his house for dinner with my wife tomorrow

01:38:14

I don't know if my wife's in shape because When you speak truth

01:38:22

We will agree that Paul spoke truth, right? Yes. Did he catch held for doing it?

01:38:29

Yes. Yes I've been the same foot So I the

01:38:36

Rock Canyon Church when I lived in Edgemont, I went to the church and I explained to my date.

01:38:42

I Said Bible in a show Bible bumper in the show they're gonna come in with their Bible and it's gonna be leather bound and When she saw somebody come in with their

01:38:52

Bible and it was that big and it was leather bound. It was cross -stitched She goes

01:39:00

Her her dad was PhD in department chair at BYU, but you know, she'd never stepped out of the walls of her church.

01:39:11

So I Mean she I have the church so any historical doctor does not scare

01:39:17

So so when I came to the Mosaic Church the guy that was stumping in the sign with Jesus He what was the thing that he told me he quoted me

01:39:28

In my historical documents that Joseph Smith was better than Jesus and he quoted me that and he gave me the pages

01:39:39

And I'm like, whoa So I took the pitch I opened my book. I have it on my bookshelf.

01:39:44

So I took the picture and Then I talked to I showed him that it was

01:39:50

Jesus's accessory prayer in John chapter 14 verse 12 and Jesus said the same exact thing that Joseph Smith said

01:40:00

Joseph Smith never said he was better than Jesus Jesus was speaking to the Apostles and he says greater things than I have done

01:40:08

Will you do Jesus spoke to a thousand people his Apostles spoke to ten 100 ,000 it's the broadness that they're referring to.

01:40:20

He never said that he was better than Jesus He says he kept the church together where Jesus failed that's the context of the quote you're referring to No one in history has held a church together.

01:40:30

Like I have essentially what he says Yeah, you're you're exactly right, but it's true. So Joseph is better than Jesus.

01:40:36

No, I never church together. Yeah, he said he did things That no one has ever done it

01:40:41

He speaks very similarly in the King Paul discourse when he says there's no revelation being given to man Hold on.

01:40:47

Hold on. It's all my great -great -grandfather Wrote 11 pages on the

01:40:54

King Paul at this point He wrote I found out a year and a half ago that he wrote like a typewriter

01:40:59

And that's why historians loved him because they can read actually read exactly what he said

01:41:04

There's no do you reject what the King Paul at their station? Hold on. Let me finish So I'm getting there

01:41:11

Joseph Smith preached the King Paul at discourse for two and a half hours they took five historians record of it and Pulled it together

01:41:23

My great -great -grandfather is the only historian that has the doctrine 180 % wrong

01:41:31

He was trying to throw down the word so fast out of Joseph Smith's mouth Even Wilford Woodruff's record of it was only eight pages or seven pages

01:41:41

So it was five and he's the greatest historical. He says why did you keep record of that?

01:41:47

He would not go to sleep Until he had burned the candles and wrote everything that had happened in the church and what

01:41:55

Joseph Smith said so so they they there's

01:42:04

There's so Wilford Woodruff and Brigham Young when Joseph Smith died he says the temple ceremony brethren is not

01:42:14

Situated correct, but we have done the best we can in the times that we have

01:42:22

And Brigham Young prophesied that the more time that he and Wilford Woodruff spent on that It was complete

01:42:33

So would you say that? We believe all that God has revealed all that he does now reveal and we believe that he will yet Many great things pertaining to the kingdom of God.

01:42:49

I have it on Richard Miller 888 Christian historians and the guys oh the

01:42:56

Bible was fixed locked finished He says then he called out the

01:43:04

LDS guy. He says how do you feel about that? He says I Have to I forget the quote.

01:43:10

He says Expanding Forever and it was come the three words that he used were based on revelation

01:43:23

Show me show me Show me another religious leader

01:43:32

Who said who created Restored whatever you say about a faith he says

01:43:42

But guys that are gonna come after me are gonna expand it even more show me one

01:43:54

Who cares Didn't happen didn't happen to the didn't happen to Jehovah Witness didn't happen to Muslim So let me get so did muzz did

01:44:03

Mohammed say There's gonna be a leader that comes after me. It's even better than me.

01:44:09

I think it's irrelevant Yeah, how is that a test of genuine prophecy? I mean you've got props

01:44:15

Given us this Spirit fear fear power love in the sound mind.

01:44:20

Yeah question though about the King Follett discourse. So you're referencing Oh, so we have right. Do you deny what's not in the people?

01:44:26

We have well your interpretation you quoted yet how you take it. We don't say we do okay

01:44:31

It's 45 minutes if we have 45 minutes of what he spoke up for two and a half

01:44:37

Can you tell me your interpretation of the King Follett discourse there? What's yours? Just like Jesus She doesn't tell me what tell me what you believe

01:44:44

King Follett as man is God once was okay.

01:44:51

So was Jesus Like us here on earth He took on flesh.

01:44:58

Okay, so that's that's all Joseph Smith to say and as God is it as God is man may become so Watch oh, hold on.

01:45:07

What about the father? How you twist the son and the father in the Trinity it's a man

01:45:12

I think he's referring to the father in the It's a mess. So what is what does

01:45:18

Romans 8 16 you you're familiar with this? So quoted to me

01:45:26

They were joint heirs with Christ joint heirs with Christ. So what does Christ obtain that we won't?

01:45:32

We're joint heirs. Well in his deity, he's gone in joint heirs with Christ.

01:45:38

We are joint heirs with Christ That's what Joseph Smith was saying. We're not putting a limit on it.

01:45:43

So are you saying that you can you become a god? Well, okay. Let's are you are you open up?

01:45:51

Why is it hard for you to admit it? Just say I just said it just yes or no

01:45:56

Do you believe that it is possible for you to become a god like Elohim it? I am already a god says the scripture turn to John chapter 10.

01:46:05

I'll go we'll do exactly that good Yes, I love this John chapter 10. Yeah verse 1

01:46:11

It's the end of the chapter. It's first 30 and then we'll read it Okay, we're gonna start gosh this is harder to read now

01:46:23

One time I forgot my Bible I and my father are one Oh, then the Jews took up stones again to stone him and Jesus answered them many good works

01:46:32

Many good works. I have shown you from my father for which of those works do you stone me? The Jews answered him saying for a good work.

01:46:39

We do not stone you but for blasphemy and because you being a man man Maketh I sell

01:46:45

God Jesus answered them. Is it not written in your law? I said you are God. Oh, there we go.

01:46:51

That's Philippians That's Psalms 82 6. I see. Is it not written in your life?

01:46:56

Yeah, I said Oh, no, we got to go to saw me Yes, sorry if he called them gods to whom the

01:47:06

Word of God came and the scripture cannot be broken so So you can't break the scripture what

01:47:13

Jesus just said. He said we are God's you can't break the scripture I believe in Jesus 100 %

01:47:18

He says you cannot cannot break the scripture, but the LDS Church teaches that you can No No, I'm gonna read the whole thing, okay, okay

01:47:31

Psalm 82 Okay God stands in the congregation of the mighty he judges among the gods.

01:47:42

Oh, sorry How long will you know just just like my kids dad? All I have to do is hold the flashlight my arms cramping.

01:47:49

It's 1130. Can I go to bed? I'm gonna slow just to make your arm hurt more

01:47:56

Don't get how long will you judge? How long will you judge unjustly and show partiality to the wicked?

01:48:02

That's important We're gonna come back to that. Well, if you don't like this one, we'll turn to Genesis. No, we got to read this one

01:48:09

Okay. Well, no, we got it. Okay, all right after I just don't take Jesus web just not two words.

01:48:15

We Defended the poor and the fatherless

01:48:21

Do justice do justice to the afflicted and needy Deliver the poor and needy free them from the hand of the wicked now.

01:48:29

It's clear Given verse two, how long will you judge unjustly and show partiality to the wicked the

01:48:34

God is here talking to people who are sinful People who are unjust people who need to be reminded to do just things not people who are perfect Or have achieved perfection.

01:48:45

I didn't say anything about perfection. Look at that They do not know nor do they understand they walk about in darkness

01:48:54

All the foundations of the earth are unstable. Okay, so people we're talking about people who do not have spiritual life They walk around you're giving me a

01:49:01

Sunday school lesson. This is exactly what you did several times today You did this their numbers 12.

01:49:06

You did this when we were talking about it Number let me do this. We read the whole chapter And you have me stop here

01:49:14

They do not know nor do they understand what they want to see you on I'm on verse 5 right now, okay

01:49:20

They do not know nor do they understand they walk about in darkness all the foundations of the earth aren't stable

01:49:27

All right, out of course says old King James. Okay, that's right I said you are

01:49:32

God said said old King James. I I said you are God's And all of you are children of the

01:49:39

Most High. I said ye are God's. Okay. Oh, but is it big G little G? I've heard that a hundred thousand times on but You shall die like men and fall like one of the princes arise

01:49:52

Oh God judge the earth for you shall inherit all nations all these people. They have no spiritual light in them There are false judges

01:49:58

You cannot say that God in any meaningful sense is a false judge or has no spiritual light in him

01:50:07

But if I understand, okay, so you're saying what that you you have to be Matthew chapter 5 verse 48

01:50:17

What does Jesus say? Yeah, it says be ye therefore perfect as your father in heaven. Okay. So why is

01:50:23

Jesus Christ? Commanding us to do something. That's not possible because he's not there talking about absolute moral perfection.

01:50:30

No We're only saying we're only saying what Jesus said See you're telling this is at the end of a passage where he is talking about who you should love and Even Mormon scholars have agreed that the passage that is interpreted as absolute moral perfection is talking about Love Everyone that's that's well, that's that's first Peter.

01:50:56

That's first. No, that's hold on. Okay, let's turn to first Peter 3 7 No, I need you to deal with what we've already read

01:51:03

Why In John chapter 10, it says to whom the Word of God came

01:51:09

So we're talking about individuals that God has chosen From the world in order to be a blessing and a light to all nations

01:51:16

So they were listen So they were children of the Most High because God gave them the oracles of God in order to judge the nations

01:51:22

But these children We're not Well, I phrased it wrong, but we'll read it we'll read it, okay

01:51:39

We Romans the heaviest Scripture quoted out of any of the

01:51:44

Christian world and joint heirs with Christ Joint heirs and we and everybody all

01:51:51

Christians put a limit on that. No. Well Ephesians chapter 1 Heirs with Christ. So what does that mean?

01:51:57

You want it's in Ephesians chapter 1 we read it last. No, I'm talking Romans What does Romans I use scripture to interpret scripture?

01:52:03

Oh, yeah, but anyways, where'd you want to go to Genesis 3? I read I read that Just just find it you can you want to turn your flashlight off just so you don't lose your battery man

01:52:21

If he needs it, I'll give him my wife says the lights out Nobody's home so Wait, what?

01:52:29

He's being self -deprecating the light you spent so much time around me you can't I know something I sometimes I miss it sometimes

01:52:34

I miss it No, no, I don't know if you've ever heard this but I shared it with your friend last time

01:52:43

When Moses came down from Mount Sinai and he broke the tablets, what did he break?

01:52:50

And what was on them I'm asking if I rip a page from over That is not

01:53:01

Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. I'm asking what was on the tablet Yeah, it was the commandments of God.

01:53:08

No, it was the gospel of Jesus Christ and that's according the Translation of the

01:53:14

Joseph Smith Bible and the Saints were not ready So you're telling me that Moses prophet of God lost his temper and broke the ten commandments and went to heaven came back got the same

01:53:25

Ten thou shall not it was a preparatory Covenant for the coming of the

01:53:32

Son of God. They were not ready for The gospel of Jesus Christ was shared with Adam God has wanted to share with man ever since the world began in the covenant house of Israel We're not ready

01:53:49

So we're not really according to the prophet Mel Brooks. What actually was on those tablets is male 15 commandments

01:54:03

Anyways, did you find it in Genesis 3 that you're referring to? I'll forget if it's

01:54:15

Genesis 2 Could be it could be someone about um, I think you might be thinking of Genesis No, it's not.

01:54:23

Is it the fall during the fall when Satan tempts Eve? Did God say that I?

01:54:31

Well, they would they would be like God Knowing both good like us. Yeah, they have become gods.

01:54:38

No, that's not what he said. He said like us Well, that's your interpreter, that's your okay.

01:54:43

Well, we read the old and you James Sorry, you've done this entire time is every time we would tell you what the

01:54:49

Bible says you would just write it off to be our interpretation How like it wouldn't be it is it is but it's not just my interpretation of the

01:54:58

Bible's just an interpretation I don't understand exactly what it means until the Holy Ghost reveals it unto me or a prophet of God speaks for the church

01:55:07

Is what it means, but then you would have to further interpret the prophets teaching and also your own subjective feelings the problem of interpretation just gets pushed further further further

01:55:21

Situation where you feel that God's spoken I do Oh Yes, so so if if I put a rock in that Bible and throw it at your head even harder

01:55:33

It's gonna make more than impression upon you because it was in his work. That's not

01:55:38

I don't even know what you're I'm not talking a book That's the problem

01:55:45

Eric, that's the problem man, that's why you're to see there's a difference between the Word of God in a book

01:55:50

What's what is the gospel Eric? You've mentioned it many times before and you've said that Jesus is the

01:55:56

Son of God. Can you clearly define for me? What the gospel is? What does that mean

01:56:01

Jesus is the Son of God, please enlighten know what you know Because apparently we can't know what the Bible says without having a prophet or a subjective experience

01:56:09

What is the gospel Eric? You said it was preached to Adam. You said it was preached to people old

01:56:14

So what was that gospel given to the first principles in ordinance of the gospel our first faith in the

01:56:19

Lord Jesus Christ Second repentance third baptism by immersion for their mission. Where's that taught to Abraham or laying on of hands for the

01:56:26

Holy Ghost? Where's that in Abraham? Where does that? I would always say when I was knocking on people's door.

01:56:32

I said, did you guys know that Adam was baptized and they're like Wait, wait, wait

01:56:39

Adam was baptized. I go. Yeah, they go. Well who baptized Adam? All right, it's like a frog in boiling water

01:56:48

I won't tell you now, but once the water is hot enough and you can't get out of the pot Then you're gonna accept it. I would say

01:56:54

I'd say let us in rather than throw darts on Genesis 15 6 and also

01:57:00

Paul reiterates that in the book of Galatians that Abraham believed in God and it was accredited to him as righteousness

01:57:06

That is a covenant by which he was justified. So was it the sacrifice of Ishmael?

01:57:11

No Yeah, I was wrong. I reject mom because of scripture Mohammed was wrong.

01:57:17

He was a false prophet. He was a cult leader We are totally comfortable False prophet is someone who preaches a different Jesus a different gospel and it leads you after another spirit

01:57:26

Yeah, somebody who claims to be able to speak for God, but is not actually doing so no matter how much you might say nice things

01:57:33

Jesus says in Matthew 24 He says that when he returns there be people saying there is

01:57:39

Jesus up on the mountains There's Jesus down in the valleys and he's explicit command to them is not to follow that person

01:57:45

Even though to borrow the terminology from the LDS Church that person would be testifying of Christ, but it's a false

01:57:53

Christ Well, and Jesus interpretation of a false But the question again is why should

01:57:59

I believe Joseph's interpretation? You haven't given me a good reason and while other than your own experience to any time from now so you're telling me me spending more time in the scriptures than 99 % of my

01:58:13

Neighbors, it's just an experience and not a study. Amen Yeah, you're telling me that you haven't gotten anything meaningful from I think

01:58:21

I think you can be ever learning but never arrive at a knowledge of the truth because that's what the Bible says Knowledge of the truth that's you ever learn.

01:58:29

Unfortunately, Eric, that's you because you reject what I would I would say the same You're I'm holding up the mirror.

01:58:36

Okay, great good So then let's let's put the mirror then at both of us and let's point it what God's Word says again,

01:58:41

Eric What is the gospel faith repentance and baptism? So, why doesn't it say when

01:58:50

Paul speaks of the gospel in Romans, why does it he say Abraham believed and got baptized and Received the gift of the

01:59:00

Holy Ghost by laying out of hands and endured to the end of the fourth one that I forgot Why doesn't he say that it's been?

01:59:07

Abraham believed No, do you believe in Enoch I Believe that there was a character called

01:59:17

Enoch. Yeah, it was in the Bible. Okay. It was in the Bible. He walked with God There is more

01:59:26

About Enoch in the Old Testament than there is the new why?

01:59:34

Because they had nothing more to say about So but he's mentioned in the

01:59:39

New Testament So Because the New Testament doesn't mention it in length that means that means they had more record of Enoch from the

01:59:53

Old Testament that is not Included in the New Testament because they spoke of Enoch more in the

01:59:59

Old Testament than in the new Okay, so you are you referring to the book of Jude? When oh, yeah

02:00:05

Jude mentions Enoch actually, so it's not correct to say that the Old Testament says more about Jude straw just like James That's not at all.

02:00:14

What we're saying. Do you believe in Jude is gonna be my question because he says Earnestly contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the

02:00:22

Saints. That's right at the beginning. Do you believe that? According to the LDS Church you had Equal and then it was taken away

02:00:31

No, it was saying it was never went away never yeah, no, it didn't say that. Yeah Once for all said it was it was done for once we can for all once for all once for all on the gates of Hell of us it says on this rock.

02:00:43

I've established my church and the gates of hell will not prevail against us Yeah, Daniel also says that during the time of Rome there would be a kingdom that would show up and would never ever ever be destroyed

02:00:52

It's getting bigger I used to have during the days of Rome I've been on the

02:00:58

I've been on the earth so long. I used to I hold on I used to have all the temples memorized I could mention them by name now.

02:01:06

There's over 300 announced and over a hundred and seventy operating. I can't remember that Prophecy is literally fulfilling itself in front of Christianity and they are in denial of the fruit

02:01:22

Of what Eric what what Daniel said? Oh what Daniel said?

02:01:28

It's your interpretation Why from this point on good? Why should

02:01:33

I not respond to literally everything you say about theology the Book of Mormon or anything with your interpretation?

02:01:41

Why should I not treat you the way that you treat us? I'm not giving you my interpretation.

02:01:50

I'm telling you what's there Daniel has said that this was the case They they take the

02:01:59

Bible 180 degrees different than you also explain it Eric, what do you mean? That's the exception

02:02:04

I said That's an assumption. I didn't talk to that other Yeah, but spend my life doing it

02:02:09

Eric. Here's the here's the beautiful thing about the gospel today You if you were to die today, right if you believe that Jesus Christ was the eternal

02:02:18

God who took on flesh Right was perfectly obedient to the works of the law where you have failed you've lied in your life, right?

02:02:25

Are you perfect? Oh, hold on. Hold on Eric. Just let me speak This is the beautiful thing about Jesus in the hope of actual good news

02:02:31

It's not principles and ordinances of men the actual good news is that Jesus Christ hold on was the eternal

02:02:36

God who took on flesh was Obedient to the works of the law in which I could never be right and not only that he's our

02:02:43

Savior Listen, listen, and then he was placed on a cross, right?

02:02:49

Cursed is every man who hangs on a tree He died the death that I deserve the wages of sin is death

02:02:55

But the free gift of God is eternal life in Jesus Christ And so in my belief that there's nothing

02:03:01

I can do before God to offer him my own righteousness But instead I take the righteousness of hold on the spotless

02:03:07

Righteous lamb just like the lamb that was slayed in the Passover, right? It was purely the blood of that lamb in which the angel of death passed over the doors

02:03:15

Wasn't any righteousness of the Israelites the blood of the lambs pre shadow of Christ listen But through the lamb is their faith in Jesus Christ.

02:03:22

Yeah. Hang on. Yeah, there we go. There we go I want you to really believe that I want you to believe that Hold on I want you to believe that to your to its logical conclusion though.

02:03:33

Anyway, I love that I I say amen to that but listen The blood of Jesus Christ alone and his perfect righteousness

02:03:41

Allows me to stand before the Father one day Justified declared righteous not any work that I have done purely the work of Jesus just like in Zechariah 3 when

02:03:53

Joshua is standing before the angel of the Lord and The devil is there to accuse Joshua and the angel of the

02:03:59

Lord says no take off your filthy garments and put on my garments I will close Right.

02:04:04

It's the same thing that happens to me is through my faith in Jesus Christ alone in which I stand justified

02:04:10

Good works flow from that no Hold on. Hold on. You don't have faith. It can't happen.

02:04:15

Listen, it takes works to have faith Not according to chapter 2.

02:04:21

It's oh, so so you believe like Martin Luther that James is strong Hold on is it doesn't twist to his interpretation?

02:04:29

No, no, I agree with James and I think actually you disagree with you So the beautiful thing about the good news is that actually it's good news through the work of Christ alone that I will stand

02:04:39

Justified before the Father because the Bible tells me that he says he who says they were without sin The truth was never in you my salvation.

02:04:47

Well, hold on Eric I'm not saying that be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect. You quoted earlier. What did it come in it?

02:04:53

There we go. First of all, are you selling that command person if I three seven? There's no commandment given to men that they cannot follow.

02:04:59

Are you perfect? Are you perfect today? I never said I was so you were disobeying that commandment then Good luck, man.

02:05:05

You don't have full assurance of your salvation Even though John in his first epistle says

02:05:10

I write John in his first epistle says

02:05:15

I write these things to you not to John says an apostle of Jesus Christ says

02:05:29

I Write these things to you the the schmucks the random guys in the church

02:05:36

I write these things to you so that you may know that you have present tense eternal life

02:05:46

According to what you have told us tonight you cannot know that you have eternal life

02:05:52

Because you just told me you said that the command in Matthew 548 is to be morally perfect Oh, and that's you it says better.

02:06:01

Yes. He says to be perfect And you buy your own so let's turn are not let's turn to first you need to deal with turn to first Peter three seven

02:06:10

You need to deal with let's turn to first Peter three seven You need talks about you never dealt with his husband and wife

02:06:17

You union you can't be perfect without the wife and the husband can't be perfect also without You haven't dealt with anything else

02:06:25

Can't be saved in the kingdom of God is perfect You're proof texting by just jumping from one thing to another also says it's better for you to remain single if you can

02:06:32

Why would you say that to me because he's a full -time missionary? Yeah, but he's telling people you should not do the thing that according to the

02:06:39

LDS Church. You must do that's first He's telling people not saying what let's turn to first Peter three seven so that you can ignore it like you did with Psalm 82

02:06:49

I don't let's turn to Today the hope of the gospel is for you Eric to repent Peter depends on your own

02:06:56

Self -righteousness and come to the God that loved you enough to take your place on the cross You're still committing idolatry if you reject that Eric you're gonna stand before God one day

02:07:05

He's gonna say you rejected the works of my son and thought you had something to offer the Book of Mormon says fools mock

02:07:11

But they shall mourn. I'm not mocking you. You will stay you will stand accountable for the words of My sins are fully on the back of Jesus Christ and I rely on on the day of our own standing

02:07:25

But you need baptism when we stand before God Says we need baptism negative sir.

02:07:31

He says church of Christ says that the Pentecostal says that assembly. Yes, they do Their church guys,

02:07:39

I have been there they interpret the same verse I do the same verse the same way without the

02:07:45

Book of Mormon clarity But we haven't been there for clarity's sake

02:07:51

We are visit I thought I'd never see Eric. Come and see come and see sit sit at their table.

02:07:58

See if you want Look, I don't I've loved this conversation And I hope you understand that like the reason that that Andrew and I are here is because we were concerned for you

02:08:10

So but you get you gotta understand You have to understand Eric you on the

02:08:15

Methodist There isn't a point in me continuing this conversation because you are not listening to anything either of us are saying

02:08:21

You've been disrespectful by talking over us over and over and over again, I don't

02:08:27

I'm not speaking for you I don't see that. There's any point in me continuing on here. Well, I can we turn to first Peter 3 7

02:08:34

I'd like you to hear you haven't paid any attention It's in the Bible. You haven't paid any attention to any of the other scriptures that we've dealt with your interpretation of them

02:08:43

I've heard it from a thousand people man. I hope you understand. I love you, but I got to get out of this conversation

02:08:50

Okay, I hope to have a good night air in the future We'll come to the church as I visit The the the the pastor at the

02:08:59

Baptist Church kicked me out But I didn't even say anything They kicked they kicked me out of there

02:09:06

Nikki Haley, Utah Valley She said this bads happened in the world's on fire. All I said was

02:09:12

Jesus is coming 16 you agree with that Jesus is coming, right?

02:09:17

He will okay. I said Jesus is coming. Do you believe in that? Yes, okay. So 16 minutes later.

02:09:23

I said she was blaming everything on Trump She's the former governor of South Carolina She said the

02:09:30

Republicans learned lost everything because of Trump and I said he didn't lose in,

02:09:35

South Carolina I brought out the obvious and they kicked me out I brought up truth and they kicked me out of 10 ,000 people 16 minutes apart

02:09:49

I don't think the ending of this conversation Actually proves that you're a persecuted believer by any chance.

02:09:57

Oh, yeah. Nope. I think it shows that Unfortunately, you're here. You're an individual who's got a hard heart man, and we want you to know truth