Reasoning with Mormons

I'm Jeff Durbin, president of Apologia Christian Ministries, and this is Luke Pearson, our vice president. We want to thank you so much for watching us this evening, and we want to ask you to stay tuned this month as we give you constant updates and blogs on what we're doing up here at the temple in Mesa, Arizona.

And we want you to stay tuned to see how you can use the tools that we're giving you out here to reach out to those that with love of Christ that are LDS. We want to thank you again for your prayers. We desperately need those.

And if you feel like you'd like to partner with us and join our support of Apologia Christian Ministries, we'd love to have you do so. Please contact us at defendthefaith .org. Once again, the Lord bless you, and thank you for watching.

Testing the Spirits and the Mormon Claim to Many Gods

You know the Bible says to test the spirits to see if they're a flesh from God?

So here's what I'm saying.

And this is like a broad category here. Mormonism teaches, and I don't want to offend you, so if I'm wrong, stop. I don't want to tell you what you're believing about it.

I don't want to tell you what you believe. Just tell me if this is true.

Okay?

Mormonism teaches that there are many gods. That there was gods before God, and you can become a god one day. I know, I know, I know. I do not believe that Mormons worship other gods of other planets.

Okay.

That is not the issue.

I know you don't.

Joseph taught that there are three gods of this world.

Three gods.

Not one god, but three gods.

And that there's many gods before God, and many gods after him. So the problem we have as Christians is this, is that God had already said, long before Joseph came along, he says, before me there was no god formed, neither shall there be.

After me.

I am the first and I am the last, besides me there is no god. And then he says, he goes further, he says, in this next verse, he says, is there a god besides me? Indeed, there is no other god.

I know not.

Why?

Do you believe in the Trinity?

Do I?

Is that, is that, do you believe in the Trinity?

Yes. The Nicene Creed, right? Yes.

So you believe Jesus Christ is the only god.

Well, I, I believe, I believe in the Trinity.

The Trinity.

As taught in the Bible.

As taught in the Bible. Alright, so you, have you read the Nicene Creed at all?

The Nicene.

And how they try to, to describe the Trinity, that is?

The Nicene Creed was, it was a, the Nicene Creed came from a council specifically called to fight against the Aryan heresy.

Yep.

Which created two gods.

Yep.

And so the Christians basically fought against Arius of Alexandria, and they said, what you're teaching is wrong, here's why it's wrong, the Bible says this. And that's how Arius was, was expelled. It, it, it didn't come about then.

I could show you Polycarp, John's disciple, writing in the first century, before the second turn in the second century, talking about the Trinity. So do you believe?

So I'm just, I'm just trying to, what, how, which god do you believe in?

Well, with that, with that, I believe, I, the Bible says there's only one god. Deuteronomy 6, verse 4 says, Hero Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Before me there was no god before me, so neither shall there be after me.

I am the first, I am the last. Besides me there is no god. God comes to Jesus, he says, Master, what's the greatest commandment of the law? He says, Hero Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.

Right?

There's only one God. Now, the thing is, is this, is that's what I believe.

Yeah.

Now Mormonism, Joseph taught, in King Paul the Discourse, he says this, he says, he says, I'll do one before History of the Church. He says, many men say there's only one God. The Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit are all one God.

He says, I say that's a strange God anyhow. Three in one, one in three, he says it's a curious organization. He says it'd be a wonderfully big God, he'd be a giant or a monster. He says, I will preach on the plurality of gods.

I wish to declare I have always and in all congregations, when I have preached on the subject of eating, it has been on the plurality of gods. He says, he says this, God himself was once as we are now and is an exalted man.

He says, we have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea and take away the veil so that you may see. He says, you've got to learn to move on God's yourselves the same way all gods have done before you.

Now that's Joseph. Now God says, from eternity into eternity thou art God. Psalm 90 verse 2. From eternity into eternity.

God is God.

Joseph didn't believe that.

Is, what's eternity? Is eternity forever?

Is eternity what it is?

The definition of it would be everlasting.

For everlasting.

Yeah, everlasting.

Got it.

Joseph Filling, you, Joseph Filling Smith once said, as God, as man is God once was, as God is man may become. So you have that principle down. But I'm just, so you're using.

Let's bring more to your second. That's a good quote.

That's a great quote.

Because that really describes in a very simple way what you guys mean. That's a great quote. So let's talk about that right there. That God was once a man who became God. So he had a God before him.

Yes. Okay.

What do you do with God in Isaiah 44, 6 when he says, I am the first and I am the last?

He is the first of our spirits and he is the last of our spirits.

You have to add those words.

Well, when you think about it.

He says, finish that verse. You can't really inject those words because he finishes. Well, you can interpret it. Oh, you can.

Yeah.

I agree.

I agree.

You can interpret it however you want. But the problem is it's not going to change the meaning of the text.

I can give you guys a map.

And I can say, here's the map to my house. You can take that map and you can take it in the wrong direction. Say, I'm going to go this way instead.

Whatever.

It doesn't mean the map is wrong. It means that you're not paying attention.

You know what I mean?

So, Isaiah 44, 6. God says, I am the first and I am the last.

Ready?

Besides me, there is no God.

I have a question though. When you were saying, you were talking.

Also.

Just.

But you just said that God was once a man who had a God before him.

Yeah.

So he's not the first.

We just believe that besides him with us, there's no other God.

Just on face value.

On the Bible, we believe that it's correct as far as it's translated correctly. So we know for sure that everything has been translated correctly. Joseph Smith's translation is great. Great truths. I'm not saying I love the Bible.

When you were talking about Jesus Christ.

Can I ask you guys a question?

When you guys say that you believe about us.

In my experience.

I have a lot of Bible friends.

Neighbors. Clients. Friends of mine. You know.

They'll always say, we believe about us. It's correct as far as it's translated correctly. What that's usually translated to me in dialogue. Is that anywhere that the Bible. And I don't mean this offensive.

It's not hateful. Okay.

Anywhere the Bible disagrees with the theology.

It's been translated incorrectly.

So, here's the thing. You need to throw this out just for like conversation. Matthew 24, 35. Jesus says, heaven and earth will pass away. My words will by no means pass away. So, that's a statement.

I know you say Jesus is Lord. I say Jesus is Lord.

The Lord says his words will never pass away. But you're taught in the LDS church that it's been corrupted. It's missing many plain and precious parts. So, how can you have both right? Jesus says he'll never pass away.

Well, that's why his word has not passed away. Because it had to be restored.

Well, no.

Actually, Joseph taught that it had. It was missing many plain and precious parts.

Joseph spoke inspiring men in the early days of the church. And he left parts out.

So, there wasn't...

Well, I'm telling you. It talks about books in the Bible that are not in there. So, why aren't they in there?

Well, Paul quotes Aranas of Cilicia and Epimenes of Crete.

Are they?

Is that biblical? Because he quotes Aranas of Cilicia and Epimenes of Crete. They were pagan philosophers. Because somebody mentions in the Bible...

No.

You have to...

The Bible’s Sufficiency and the Corruption Claim

So, if you guys are LDS watching this video, I want to encourage you to look in your Bibles. Look at these scriptures that we gave you. We don't want to hurt you. We care deeply for you. We believe that you're following a false god and a false gospel.

And I know that can come across as very offensive. But remember, a lot of times, the most important thing, the most loving thing you can do to somebody is tell them the truth. I'm going to just leave you with a verse today.

And that's John 5, 24. Jesus says, He who hears my voice and believes in Him who sent me has, has eternal life and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life. And that is the good news, the simple gospel message that by simply turning from sin, turning to Christ as Savior and Lord, just believing in Him, trusting in His sacrifice for you, you're forgiven for all eternity.

You know God. You enter into an intimate relationship with the living God and that you have passed out of death, into life, out of judgment. You've been acquitted in God's sight.

Romans 3, 28.

Therefore, we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law. Ephesians 2, 8 and 9. By grace are you saved, through faith, and not of yourselves. It is the gift of God, not by works, lest any man should boast.

I want to thank you so much. The Lord bless you. And we're going to pray for you. We hope these videos have been useful. We pray that the Lord God opens your eyes, gives you a new heart to believe, opens your ears.

And for all you Christians out there that are watching, we want to thank you for supporting Apologia. Please continue to pray for us. If you'd like to support our ministry and partner with us, please contact us at defendthefaith .org.

The Lord bless you.