January 4, 2017 Show with Dr. Terry Mortenson on “Searching for Adam: Genesis & the Truth About Man’s Origin”

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania it's iron sharpens iron a radio platform on which pastors Christian scholars and theologians Address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us Iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage quote we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and Directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

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Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania and the rest of humanity Living on the planet earth who are listening via live streaming. This is Chris Arnzen your host of iron sharpens iron. Wishing you all a happy Wednesday on this fourth day of January 2016 and before I introduce my guest today and my co-host and my topic I want to remind you that next Thursday and Friday iron sharpens iron is having two major Events that you should be marking down on your calendars and you should be spreading the word about to everyone that you know and care about the first.

These are iron sharpens iron pastors luncheon, which is being held next Thursday, January 12th 11 a .m. To 2 p .m. At the Carlisle vault Catering hall, it's called the vault because it's a historic bank going back to the early 20th century that has been transformed Into a gorgeous a catering hall and so it was built back in the days when for some reason they made all banks look like they were castles or something and It is going to be I'm sure a remarkable event catered by chef exclusive Chef Damien white is providing our gourmet meal that day and Our keynote speaker is dr. Tony Costa of Toronto Baptist Seminary in Canada.

He is professor of apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary also nearly every single Christian publisher every single major Christian publisher in the United States in the United Kingdom is Donating to us 100 free books of a specific title that I request from each Publisher, so in other words every man there.

We're expecting a hundred pastors there next week. Every man there is going to be leaving with at least 20 brand new books that have been donated by major Christian publishers all over the United States the United Kingdom and This is all absolutely free of charge, there's nothing going to be sold there at all.

It's there's no hidden agenda this was the brainchild of my late wife Julie back in the 1990s and we be we began doing it then and never stopped and when she went home to be with the Lord I wanted to continue the tradition of this pastor's luncheon in her honor.

And so it continues and I'm looking forward to next Thursday. The following night's Friday the 13th at 7 p .m At the Carlisle Theatre another historic building in Carlisle 900 seat Carlisle Theatre going back to the 1920s I believe has been restored to its original grandeur and beauty.

We are having a debate between the aforementioned Dr. Tony Costa of Toronto Baptist Seminary and Robert St. Janice a Roman Catholic apologist founder of Catholic apologetics international. They are debating on the theme Mary sinless Queen of Heaven or sinner saved by grace.

Tickets for this event are $5 apiece for more details Please contact me at Chris Arnzen at gmail .com and put either Luncheon debate or both in the subject line and last but not least if you go to iron sharpens iron radio .com You will see on a rotating banner some information about comfort suites of Carlisle, which is the hotel nearest to both The pastor's luncheon and the debate.

It's a gorgeous hotel and they are offering a very low rate for Guests of iron sharpens iron at the luncheon or the debate. It's only $69 a night to rent a room there if you mention iron sharpens iron or The luncheon or the debate and that's about half of what they normally charge.

So go to iron sharpens iron radio .com and you will see the comfort suites and on a rotating Banner. Well, as I was saying at the outset of the program, I am excited about today's Guests that we have on for the very first time on iron sharpens iron.

We have dr. Terry Mortensen and he has quite a Amazing resume if you will Dr. Terry Morrison Mortensen who is on staff with answers in Genesis. He is their historian and historian of geology and researcher for answer and answers in Genesis He's a lecturer on the creation evolution controversy in 25 countries since the late 1970s University campus ministry leader in the United States and Eastern Europe with campus crusade for Christ.

He's the author of many articles and books including the great turning point and Editor and contributor to coming to grips with Genesis today. We are discussing his latest book searching for Adam Genesis and the truth about man's origin and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you to iron sharpens iron.

Dr. Terry Mortensen.

Good to be with you Chris and.

Co-hosting with me once again in studio is Charlie Liebert who is founder of six day creation calm and He is also a former colleague of Ken Ham and it's great to have you back in the studio with us. Thank You Chris.

Great to be here. If anybody would like to join us on the air with a question for dr. Terry Mortensen. Our Email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. And as I do with many of our guests, dr Mortensen, I'd like to know even before we get into the discussion of the biblical and historic Adam.

I want to find out something about your history. I want to know something about the child of your youth. What religion if any you were raised in and what providential circumstances the Lord brought about in your life to draw you to Himself and a saving knowledge of him.

Well, I grew up in a churchgoing family a Lutheran family in Minnesota and Was our family went to church every Sunday and I was interested in spiritual things. But when I went off to college at the University of Minnesota, I became a typical college student in 1971 and still believed in God, but stopped going to church and started going to parties and I'm glad God saved me out of and it was towards the end of my first year at the University that a campus crusade contacted me and Shared the gospel with me and God had been preparing and in little ways other people but that day I was ready to put my trust in Christ as my Lord and Savior and my life was significantly changed and I was discipled through campus crusade in college and then joined staff.

When I graduated.

When was it in your life that you developed a fascination and interest in geology. In the history of geology?

Well, one of my first questions was what about evolution because I In the textbooks and stuff, but I came across a couple of books back in 1972 By Henry Morris and Dwayne Gish to infirm evolution or millions of years everything I could and There wasn't a lot of a when I came on staff with campus crusade I began to have a desire to speak on the subject speaking just on the basis of my own reading and study and came back to the United States in 1979 Excuse me 1989 just before the fall of communism.

I'd been the director of the campus crusade ministry in Czechoslovakia up until that time and I went to seminary and I focused as much as I could in my seminary courses on The creation evolution controversy if there's any way I could do a paper or sermon or something related to that and so during those 14 years on staff I Became very conversant with the scientific evidence For the truth of Genesis and the biblical evidence, but I didn't what was going on particularly before Darwin.

Which problem must have started before Darwin, but I didn't know exactly why. PhD. That's what I focused became really more deeply.

Interested in geology. Now, what would be the difference in a course on? Geology and the history of geology, which is your specialty.

Well, I am NOT a geologist. So I don't study rocks and fossils directly and I've never had a geology course. But I've read a lot of geology texts, especially from the early 19th century when geology was developed.

How that idea of millions of years with 18th and early 19th century who were the key? Individuals and in particular in my in my PhD thesis. I focused on A group of authors that collectively became known as the scriptural geologists and they were what we would call young earth creationists.

And they were they were writing Against these old earth ideas and the various Christian Compromises with those ideas in the early 19th century.

Well, I would love to hear about how these. These theories that not only don't seem to have any biblical merit, but they don't even seem to have any scientific merit. How did these theories develop?

Well, they were developed in the late 18th and early 19th century by men who? were deists or secret atheists or open atheists who who rejected the Word of God rejected and. But philosophers called the day naturalism.

They sought to explain the geological record of rock layers and fossils by time and chance and the laws of nature and. That Noah's Flood didn't have anything to do with it that geological record and so Time was the great hero of the plot.

Given enough time we can lay down these layers. We can we can erode and deposit these layers and fossils and so.

They reinterpreted the geological evidence in terms of millions of years. I 18th and 19th century that before this through the history of the church. They'd all been what we'd call young earth creationist.

Yeah, that's exactly right. And there were there were men in the 17th and 18th century who believed that Noah's Flood was responsible for the geological record. But those were those were just pioneering ideas that science of geology really didn't develop in early 19th century.

And there were no professional geologists who who got paid to this was all. All of this was developing when there was very very little Understanding of the of Europe to say nothing of the rest of the world.

Yes.

So going back to the 19th century and prior did you have scientists that were atheists for instance who at least agreed with the Christians that the earth was a lot younger than is believed by most scientists today.

And Where would they concede that the evidence pointed to at least some kind of intelligent design?

Well, I don't. I would have been considered a widespread view until the 18th century. But I don't know if they probably never even wrote about it. But as far as intelligent design. Even the geologists and and other scientists in the late 18th and late 18th and early 19th century who were.

Who were embracing the idea of long ages clearly thinking millions of years? They didn't. Most of them rejected the idea of evolution and contrary to what most people think Darwin didn't invent the idea of evolution.

There were others before him. In fact, there were some evolutionists at the University of Edinburgh where Darwin studied before studied medicine before he? Quit and ended up at Cambridge and his own grandfather was an evolutionist and a lot of the ideas in his grandfather's writings are Incorporated into Darwin's and in fact ideas of Darwin's theory actually go back to the ancient Greeks before the time of Christ.

So Darwin just gave what appeared to be a Scientific Naturalistic mechanism for evolution. But prior to him most people believed that living things were too exquisitely designed To be as a result of natural processes.

One of the things that is puzzling to me about.

Our.

Fellow brethren in Christ Who many of whom are very intelligent you might even call some of them brilliant? Who are in many respects if not motors most respects just as conservative as we are when it comes to a great majority of scriptural passages ideas doctrines theology.

That there is this segment of them that are not only old earth Creationists but but that have adopted theistic evolution. I'm not I don't get all that upset with my brethren who are old earth creationists although I am NOT one but when it comes to theistic evolution, this is where I Draw the line and become quite concerned if not disturbed, especially when?

There is being acceptance of men having evolved from Lower life forms and in very clear contradiction to the Genesis account of the origins of man if you could. Start with the Old Testament evidence for literal his for a literal historical Adam and Eve and why this is important.

I think there are a number of an acquaintance with scripture will know that they're different. The Bible is historical narrative and and Hebrew historical narrative and and. So when we examine the first 11 chapters of Genesis, they Oracle narrative just like the rest of Genesis the book of Exodus, you know portions of numbers and Joshua and Kings and on through the Old Testament also, when we look at all of the references in the New Testament both in the Gospels of Jesus's words as well as the writings of whenever they Relate to Genesis 1 to they always treat it as straight.

There's no hint symbolic poetry or any kind of Non-literal non-historical, I think that's that's very very strong evidence that 11 chapters are our history and they lay the foundation for the whole rest of the Bible and Once we start Treating it as something other than history.

We're we're undermining the foundations. Yeah, well it would seem.

There is no escaping it that if you believe that men evolved from other life-forms you are also Denying that death arrived on the scene after the fall. You're you're you must be as a Christian who believes in theistic evolution.

You must be clearly stating that that that there were humanoids and.

Animals.

Dying prior to the fall of Adam.

Exactly, right. And I Have found in my reading and my interaction with people both laypeople and scholars In the 25 countries that I've spoken in that most Christians have never even considered that issue.

In fact, I have an article on our website Where I critique theology text used in our Evangelical seminaries Gordon Lewis and Bruce Demarest at Denver Seminary and all of them believe and as I document in the article that the fall of Adam and Eve had an impact on the whole creation and That when Jesus comes again he will redeem the whole creation from the curse that was inflicted on the creation in Genesis 3.

And yet all three of those systematic theology moat the Acceptance of millions of years. And what I show is They didn't connect the dots with their orthodox view of the fall and their unorthodox. It's amazing to me, but I've read lots and lots of literature by Christian scientists and Christian theologians Who either haven't even touched this for the fall many pieces of young earth?

This is this is a huge theological issue. Yeah, because because if you if you don't have death coming by Adam's sin. Then the whole theology of the scripture gets overturned. Yeah, that was the primary curse of all.

Primary curse of the fall is death. And if death was present before the fall, then you've got all kinds of huge theological problems.

Not so much science, but huge theological problems. Yeah, and you know, we need to we need to realize here that. It's it's not it's not just that we're talking about. Well, you know. A dog got to age 13 and in the pre-fall world and he died of old age.

No, what the geological record shows is Massive death and destruction it shows. We find cancer and arthritis and brain tumors and dinosaur fossils. That are supposedly millions of years old. We find thorns and thistles in the fossil record in rocks that are supposedly three to four hundred million years old.

Evolutionists say reveals five major mass extinction events when anywhere from 60 to 90 percent of the species living at the time when extinct. We're talking about massive death and for God to look at all of that and.

And say well, that's very good in my mind is an assault on the very character of God. Yeah, I agree.

And the thing that also puzzles me is why these members of the intelligentsia, if you will these scholars within even within Conservative evangelical Christianity who why they would be leaning this way.

Puzzles me because it seems that gradually and slowly even those Scientists in the secular realm even many that have no Religion that they identify with are falling away from Darwinian evolution. And so it seems odd to me that you would have secularists and atheists and agnostics involved in scientific study who are Beginning to question and even abandon Darwinian ism and you have simultaneously Christians.

Adopting it. Well, I think there's I think there's three reasons for that two hundred years. BB Warfield 20th century when the fundamentals were published in 1910 and to 1912 both in those 90 outwith science and none of them defended the young earth view and three of them explicitly promoted.

Modern theologians look back at 200 years and see all of these Believed in inspiration and inerrancy of Scripture and say well look they didn't think this was important. They didn't think. The the Bible was so clear about the age of the earth.

Are you saying they're all wrong? And my answer is yeah. They're wrong on this point just like Peter was wrong in Matthew 16 when when after he passed his theology exam with an A and Said you are the Christ the Son of the Living God.

He then contradicted Jesus when Jesus said I'm going to Jerusalem and I'm going to die at the hands of sinful man and and Peter said In so many words. No, you're not Lord and Jesus said to Peter the text says get behind me Satan.

So at that moment of his greatest theological statement become a mouthpiece for Satan and then in Galatians chapter 2 Paul has to confront Peter in Antioch because he was caving in To the the peer pressure of the party of the circumcision Jewish Meals with and Paul saw this as a threat to the gospel and he confronted Peter publicly for his the second.

You know, the second factor is the historical factor, but then we have this thing that you know, we talked to teenagers. Especially and say now now don't cave in to peer pressure. But let's be honest peer pressure affects us all and it doesn't matter whether you're 56 and there is tremendous academic pressure in the academic world to conform to the majority view and and there's there's penalties if you go against what you already say and so I think there's a fear of man and a desire for the praise of men academic praise of men.

And then the third reason so you've got a historical you've got a spiritual reason here. But I think a third reason is and again, this is based on my reading of a lot of old earth Lily are not on the scientific evidence.

They're not reading creationist literature by they're ignorant of the evidence and they're just going with what the media and the science Programs on television and the state national parks. They go to on vacation are just repeatedly saying the earth is millions of years old science has proven this all the science.

They're just not informed.

We are going to our first station break right now if you'd like to join us on the air with a question for dr Terry Mortensen on Searching for Adam our email address is Chris Ornson at gmail .com. That's Chris Ornson at gmail .com.

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But other other than that, please identify yourself at least by first name city and state and country. We are going to be right back after these messages. So don't go away. I'm Chris Ornson host of iron sharpens iron radio.

And here's one of my favorite guests Todd Friel to tell you about a conference. He and I are going to.

Hello, this is Todd Friel host of wretched radio and a wretched at TV and Occasional guest on Chris's show. Think I think that's what it's called. Hoping that you can join Chris and me at the g3 conference in Atlanta my new hometown.

It is going to be a bang-up conference called the g3 conference celebrating the 500th anniversary of the Protestant Reformation with Paul Washer Steve Lawson d a Carson Vody Bokum Conrad and Bayway Phil Johnson James White and a bunch of other people.

We hope to see you there. Learn more at g3 conference .com g3 conference.

Thanks Todd, I think. See you at the iron sharpens iron exhibitors booth.

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Welcome back. This is Chris Ornson if you just tuned us in. Our guest today for the full two hours with about 90 minutes to go is Dr. Terry Mortensen and we are discussing his book searching for Adam Genesis and the truth about man's origin.

Co-hosting with me in studio is Charlie Liebert founder of six day creation .com. If you'd like to join us on the air, our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com chris ar n ze n at gmail .com and Please give us at least your first name your city and state in your country of residence and The the it will give us some also the some of the New Testament.

Areas.

Texts that show the great importance for believing in a real historic figure named Adam.

Well One would be both Matthew 19 and Mark 10 when Jesus who was confronted By the Pharisees with the question about divorce and he you know, they said well Moses permitted. Well, he permitted that because of the hardness of your heart.

If you want to know God's perspective on marriage you need to go back to the foundation of marriage, which is Genesis 1 and 2 and he quoted from those two chapters a foundation and Paul uses the In 1st Corinthians 11 to argue for male headship in the home and in 1st Timothy 2 for male headship in the church and He of Eve in 2nd Corinthians chapter 11 verse 3 where he says, I'm afraid that you'll be deceived By Satan the same way Eve was foundational to life and then of course in Romans 5 he really unpacked sin came into the world through Adam and.

And.

Jesus came into the world as he talks about that in 1st Corinthians 15 when he talks about the resurrection of Jesus. You can't mess with the early chapters of Genesis without really Undermining a New Testament teaching on a lot of subjects including the gospel.

And I know that people who listen to my show with any regularity will hear me repeating this because it's something that I repeat Often, but I don't think it can be repeated often enough. The whole idea of men evolving from lower life forms is inseparably wedded to racism and The fact that the most notorious and grotesque of racist individuals and organizations that we have on record from the 19th and 20th centuries Have believed and 21st centuries have believed and still do believe that those of the Non-white race as fit as if there is such a thing as a white race but those outside of Caucasian individuals are Closer to apes on the evolution chart.

Is this not this. Is this not a fact that astonishingly Seems to be there seems to be deafening silence very often even when it comes to the conservatives in the arena of scholarly debate and exchange with.

Evolutionists.

Well, I agree with you. And You know you and your listeners would be wise to note the next time you look at these Memorable charts showing how an ape-like creature gradually through you know 10 or 15 stages becomes an upright walking man.

It's lighter as you go from left to right to the Caucasian and as Stephen Jay Gould the great Harvard geologist said once that Scientific arguments in favor of racism before Charles Darwin but they increased by orders of magnitude following the acceptance of evolution theory and Darwin himself was quite racist.

He believed the aborigines were the least evolved black Africans more evolved mongoloids more evolved and guess who he thought was the most evolved white Anglo-saxons.

Yes, and a lot of people are totally shocked to hear that Darwin's complete title his original complete title of his book was on the origin of species by means of natural selection or the preservation of favored races in the struggle for life.

I don't know why that doesn't come off the tongue of every conservative every time. He's in an exchange a public exchange with an evolutionist who is mocking him who is mocking the conservative for his Quote quote prehistoric understanding of the origins of life.

You hear you hear people on TV who are considered to be intellectual all the time laughing at those of us Who believe in a real Adam and Eve. People like Chris Matthews on? CNN and and all these other folks whenever we're a politician who's running for office may say that he doesn't believe in Evolution.

He is a the laughingstock of the media. And and why this truth isn't really. The drumbeat of this truth isn't really going on loudly By those conservatives who know better is a mystery to me.

Yeah, yeah, and we should we need to be very clear there's only one race Adams race and there really is no such thing as a black race and a white race and a Brown race and a red race and a yellow race.

Those are man-made categories wished in the wake of evolutionary thinking. Particularly, but there are Christians who have had racist attitudes and he's professing Christians and it's because they don't have a biblical understanding of the origin of man.

And then of course you have the the in terms of Nazi Germany Where Hitler viewed the Germans is the highest race and all the communist regimes have been racist in different ways. In fact one of the chapters in Searching for Adam is all about racism and the Japanese were very racist in the Second World War Viewing themselves as the highest race and then the eugenics movement and the focus on Supposedly less human humans and you know.

What was amazing to me is that Planned Parenthood started by Margaret Sanger who was very racist has really focused on Abortions in the black community and it's a racist assault on the black community.

Yeah, and to show the universal nature of man's sin regardless of this color of his skin. In the 19th century and earlier there were many black Americans who had a Low view of their fellow black men and women with darker skin.

Yeah, I mean even the liberal Maya Angelou.

Had.

Before her death. I've heard her on a number of occasions refer to instances of of bigotry within the black community where those with lighter skin and straighter hair viewed themselves as superior and.

I.

Can remember her even? Recollecting a black church in the south That had a hairbrush Tied to a string next to the door and there was a sign that said if you could run this brush through your hair If you cannot run this brush through your hair do not Enter or something like that.

Now whether that was true, and I don't know but that was something from her account and she was a notorious liberal as most people know, but This is quite a Complex issue that Really has its fingers in a lot of things that people on its surface may not even realize the the depth to which this This falsehood of believing in an evolution how it creeps into all Manners of society that we don't even comprehend.

Am I right?

That's that's true. And it is certainly at the foundation. See the moral anarchy that we are dealing with in our culture today in America because if you teach Generations of children as has been done for the last almost a hundred years.

That they're just animals descended from some other animal. We find evidence of lots of animals that commit what we would call among humans rape and polytheism and you know father offspring and then abandon them or.

You know, you can see all kinds of things in animal behavior that. If we're just animals, you know, what's wrong with? Fornication adultery rape. And. Evolutionists say there's animal behavior that looks like homosexual behavior.

So what's wrong with that? Really the foundation of the moral anarchy that we're seeing in our country Charlie. We know. I want to make a comment.

One of the I've done some research in this area and in the United States the abortion statistics are really eye-opening. You have a four out of ten chance of being aborted if you're black. Two to three if you're Hispanic and one to two if you're white.

That's clear racism. There's no question about that and I wish the black community would wake up to that fact. Where do you find the abortion clinics in black neighborhoods?

Well, I would imagine that's predominantly but not exclusively. No and I did predominantly. Right. Exactly.

And.

Well.

Adams place in the history of the church's theology if you could touch on that for a while.

Well as as dr. Tom Nettles Covered discussed in his chapter in searching for Adam.

Historian of the church. Yeah, I know dr. Tom Nettles very well. He's been on this show quite often. Yeah.

He just shows that up until the development of Darwinian evolution the church was just unanimous about Adam and Adam being foundational to the gospel and to and Genesis being foundational. Who are arguing for human evolution and saying that they're.

You know, they're. They're faithful Evangelical Christians. Well, they may be in other areas but heterodoxed.

We have CJ from Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York who wants to know is it the opinion of your guest that if a Christian believes in theistic evolution Even so much to the point that he believes men evolved from apes that this person Should not be considered a true brother in Christ.

No, only God can decide that. Evaluate that. And. The Bible is full of lots of examples and we see lots of examples Christians being inconsistent. You know if if we're all on an inconsistent in some way.

None of us is perfectly obedient to the scriptures. None of us has a perfect understanding of scripture. Leave an evolution to sinner. She is a sinner. And that Jesus Christ died a substitutionary death to pay the penalty for their sin to Reconcile them to God.

Then the Bible with erroneous ideas.

Yeah, when we are cleansed from our sin by the blood of Christ, he doesn't implant with us within our skulls an infallible brain that is that is the brain of an infallible genius that knows all truth.

Perfectly there are a lot of Christians who say and do stupid things even if they are born again and there have been throughout all of history and there have even been Some of the greatest minds of the church in history that have believed and done stupid things and simple things, obviously.