Provoked: Humble Baby-Rescuer W/John Barros

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00:04

Brothers, what we do in life echoes in eternity.

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I mean, this is what's wrong with the Christian church today. We don't know who God is, and we don't know who we are.

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This is where we hold them. This is where we fight. Officer, you need to repent of your lawless conduct.

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You don't know the law, and yet you pretend to represent it. That's not law enforcement, sir.

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That's being a thug. We will not stop fighting and bothering you all until this monstrous, barbaric practice of legalized abortion ends, and we are teaching our children to do the same.

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God's Word says that the shed blood of innocent humans cries out for justice, and mark my words, they will have their day in court.

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Nobody gets saved by being treated nicely. They get saved by hearing the gospel. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the

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Word of Christ. If we don't open our mouths and commend Christ, we're not loving

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Him, no matter what we're doing with our hands. Hey, what's going on, everybody?

01:32

Welcome to another episode of Provoked. I'm here with my beautiful sister, Desiree Morgan.

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I haven't been Desiree Morgan for 20, no, 17 years. Desiree Mays, and our good friend

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Jake Bull. He's back to help us. Happy to be here. Good to see you. Well, it's another time for a

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Provoked episode. I know. Can you believe it's almost been three years since we started this? I know, what a trip.

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Yeah, we started it in 2020 when everything went crazy. I can't believe it. It's only 2023.

02:03

It's been crazy. Welcome to the show. If you've never been on the show before, why is it called Provoked?

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Because it talks about in the book of Acts, Paul was provoked in his spirit. Really, when he saw the things happening around him, idol worship, and he was provoked to confront these issues with the gospel.

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So that's what we're trying to do is provoke or stir up our Christian brothers to love and good works, primarily in the realm of evangelizing biblically and saving babies from death at abortion clinics.

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That's who we are. If you like the show, we would ask that you would share it and subscribe it.

02:40

Subscribe it and share it and like it. Go to Instagram, Facebook, wherever you get your podcasts.

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On YouTube, the Apologist JS Studio's YouTube and like our videos. Yeah, spread the word.

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We're slowly but steadily growing, and we just keep getting more listeners from different parts of the world, which is incredible.

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So we're so encouraged by all of you guys. Yeah, just share and like. Yeah, just an easy like to this

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We can pay the bills and keep going, you know, further on into what the Lord has for us, expanding the kingdom, getting the gospel out there, saving babies, and on and on and on with what

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God has given us. So please do that. So we're excited about today. We have one of our best, best buddies, spiritual mentor.

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Hero of the faith. Hero of the faith. Incredibly good looking. Middle -aged man.

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Shrek. You got Shrek on the line. No, it's good to have John Barrows.

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Thanks for coming on the show today, brother. Oh, thank you. I love you guys so much.

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I'm so thankful. I remember the first day I met you, you weren't on staff there or anything, and you and Desi came when

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I was doing some filming with Jeff and Luke. And Joy.

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That's right. You were at the studio. Yeah, I was at the studio, yeah. What did they call her?

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The girl Joy? Is that what they called her? Yeah, the girl. Joy the girl. Yeah, the girl Joy. Yeah, and she makes great chocolate chip cookies too.

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She does. She's wonderful in a million types of ways. Tell her I said hi. Tell her

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I said hi. I will. But if you guys don't know who John Barrows is, you might be living under a rock. But he is a professional.

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I guess you could say not a professional. He's a baby rescuer. And John, you started rescuing babies 20 years ago.

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It was 20 years ago. Well, yeah. You know, it's funny. I was just checking all of that.

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Next month, in a couple of weeks, it'll be 20 years since I first started going there.

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My pastor, Jim Fitzgerald, he was the pastor at Covenant Presbyterian Church.

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And he asked me to go, and I kept saying, what do I want to go there for? And then it got real spiritual, and he offered me a cigar if I went.

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So I went down with him, and I hated it. I really did hate it.

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But I kept coming back. Something kept pulling me back.

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And then I got real sick, and I had all these problems happen.

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And in 2008, I went down there after having some serious, you know, they told me

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I had six months to live and all that kind of stuff. And I went down there after I had a brain aneurysm that really messed me up.

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And I sat on that wall, and a young lady came by, and I talked to her, and I don't even remember what

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I said because I didn't even remember when I said it because my brain was so messed up.

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But I can still remember her reaching over, bending over, and a young, very pretty black girl, and she kissed the side of my cheek, and I can still feel her tears coming down.

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And she said, Thank you, and said, I'm not going to do this. And then

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I felt this warmth come over me and, you know, stuff

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I don't even really believe in. And I didn't hear any voices or anything, but I just said,

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Lord, if this is what you want me to do, take care of my family, and I've been there ever since. And that was,

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I believe, as I was checking, and I checked with Patti Smith because I took over full -time there when she moved out of the center in 2008.

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So I've been there that long full -time. Wow. Praise God. So going on 15 years, just about.

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Yeah. Wow. That's incredible. That's amazing. So we've got a lot to talk about, different issues each one of us kind of want to drill you on and get into, but I thought we do just to kind of get to know

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John Barros and Jake Bull a little bit better. I don't think we did this with him. Yeah. But they're extremely difficult theological questions that you have to answer precisely.

08:20

No, they're not. I'm at St. Andrews, so I could probably pull someone in.

08:25

Right on. That place is beautiful. Okay. So, John, who is your favorite preacher of all time?

08:33

My favorite preacher of all time? It would have to be

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R .C. Yeah. I knew you were going to say that. He's probably one of mine, if not because he's an incredible teacher, but he was an incredible communicator too.

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Like nobody could communicate like him. What about you, Jake? Favorite preacher, probably

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Votie Bauckham. Yeah, he's very good. Just particularly, I mean, how he preaches is incredible.

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He's got quite a few giftings. But he also played college football, and I played college football.

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And he's also – I just learned this recently. I think he's like a Brazilian jiu -jitsu, like that type of stuff too.

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So I love that he's so – like he's got such masculinity. Like he's all about the – into sports and competing and things, and he's just this fierce preacher of God's word.

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Yeah, he's second to none. Yeah, and that jiu -jitsu really did him well, because he really got in pretty good shape doing that.

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Okay, next question. My second, though, is Jeff. Yeah. Nice.

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Yeah. We're so used to him. We're so used to him, but – Yeah, you guys are spoiled. Yeah, we hear him every week.

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And sometimes you can just get used to it and not – but when you really focus on him and listen to how

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God has blessed him, he's just – yeah, he's one in a billion type of person, but he's an incredible communicator.

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We're so blessed to have him. Okay, what's your favorite book of the Bible? My favorite book of the

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Bible is probably Ephesians, although my favorite verse of the

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Bible is in 2 Corinthians 521, where he says, he made him who knew no sin, sin, that we might have the righteousness of God.

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And somehow to me that one verse encapsulates the whole

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Bible. Oh, it absolutely does, yeah. You know, the whole story is encapsulated in that one verse.

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So it's tough, but Ephesians I really love. Yeah, it's wonderful. Jake? Mine is –

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I go Old Testament, and my favorite book is Jeremiah. He's my favorite prophet.

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I love that he preached for – I think it was about 40 years, his ministry preaching.

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And I think there are maybe two people that we know of who actually listened and positively responded to what he said and yet just continued to be persistent and faithful, got beat half to death, exiled, all this stuff, and just continued preaching faithfully.

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I think one of the toughest men in all of scripture, just having to endear that, endure that.

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Okay, what's your favorite book outside of the Bible? You're probably going to laugh, but The Old Man and the

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Sea. Is that Hemingway? Yeah.

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I'll tell you why, because I read it when

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I was very young, I think fourth grade or something. And that book taught me how to dream.

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It really did. It taught me – it opened a whole world to me. I mean, I love fishing. I love it to this day.

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But that wasn't the whole thing. It taught me – that book taught me about a lot of things.

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I just loved it. You know, there's others that I love. I mean, I love Moby Dick and others.

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But The Old Man and the Sea, just a short story, it's beautiful. That's awesome.

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Jake? This is a hard question. I like to read, so maybe

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I'll narrow it down to two. I know you're asking for one. One of them is The Christian Ministry by Charles Bridges.

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This is like an old, old book. It kind of walks through pastoral ministry, what that looks like, and the ups and downs of it.

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So I really like that one. And then non -theology book, there's a book called Endurance.

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It talks about Ernest Shackleton and his expedition down to the South Pole and trying to cross the continent, and the ship gets stuck, and just all these horrible things happen, and it chronicles how he led people through that.

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I literally could not put it down. And I'm kind of a slow reader, but this book in particular, I just had to know what happened on the next page, kept flipping through it.

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So probably those two. Yeah, I kind of grew up on a job site, so everything I do is I listen while I was painting or doing tile or building walls.

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So I'm a super slow reader. Okay, just a couple more. But who do you think has had the most impactful influence on your life?

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Like a spiritual mentor could be somebody close to you or far, but who has had the most impactful influence upon you?

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Gosh, again, I'd have to say R .C. I mean, he was like, you know, he is my pastor.

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You know, I'll put it to you this way. On his final, I didn't know this, somebody sent it to me, but the final renewing your mind episode that he ever did, they were interviewing him about Ligonier Ministries and Reformation Bible College and this church and other churches that he planted.

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And then at the end of it, a shock to everybody, he said, but I have to tell you that every morning when

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Vesta and I roll out of bed, we pray for John down at that awful abortion clinic.

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Wow. And when you got somebody like that that's investing in you, you know, to that degree.

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And, you know, I got to speak with him quite often, and he was always available.

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And his teaching, you know, I think the endurance that I have out there is basically in a very large part because of what he taught about God's sovereignty and the ability to be out there and see everything through the lens of the

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Reformed faith. It all makes sense. But I don't know.

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He was just always there for questions and anything. I mean, he was just always there.

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And he's still there. Yeah. That's the great thing about renewing your mind and then capturing all of his teaching and conferences.

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He still speaks even while he's gone on to be with the Lord. You know, I saw an article today by Al Baker.

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Do you know Al Baker? I've heard of the name, but I just can't draw a face. Well, he's a church planner, and he was talking about how he preached at a church in Los Angeles, and Raquel Welch was there.

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And he said that he talked to her afterwards and how she had left the whole

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Hollywood thing and she was born again. And he asked her who her favorite author was, and it was

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R .C. Sproul. Oh, really? Yeah, isn't that amazing? Wow. That is amazing. I didn't know she was saved.

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I didn't know she was born again. That's cool. That's what makes men great is they can have that level of popularity like R .C.

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did, have that much exposure. I mean, I think that they said Ligonier at one time had 40 ,000 people giving to their ministry every month.

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That's incredible. That's 40 ,000 donors. I mean, you're talking about a major ministry. Yeah, probably way more than that, but that's a lot.

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I mean, yeah, that's the top 0 .001 % or something. Yeah, the quality of their content is just top notch.

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Like we just bought this series on church history through Ligonier that they just came out with. Yeah, it's amazing, but he didn't let it get to his head.

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Yeah. Right? He was still approachable. He was still humble. I think somebody says it's easy to succeed in obscurity.

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It's hard to succeed in popularity because you start letting people smooch your rear end.

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And if you receive that, it can really turn you bad. But I'm just so thankful that it didn't happen to him.

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Okay, Jake, most impactful influence. Impactful influence. Probably one of the pastors in particular at the church that really

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I got saved in earlier in life, his name's Brian. He's actually still serving at the same church and just incredibly faithful man.

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He's probably 10 to 12 years older than me, but he was one of the first guys in my life who

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I could see really devoted to Christ. And I just kind of began to follow in his footsteps really over time, began to just help me understand the gospel and what it means.

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And then there was just a point that that happened where it's like, oh, I believe now. And so I always point to him as one of the most impactful figures, and we actually still keep in touch to this day.

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And so one of the guys, not name up in lights, but he is super faithful and still impacts.

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I think those are the two heroes of the faith. Nobody that really doesn't have any spotlight or popularity or public exposure, just faithfulness.

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Just sheer, raw, powerful faithfulness. Reminds me of the guy that you've told me about when you were serving at that church in Phoenix.

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Yeah, Perry. So he was a full Navajo Indian, and he was one of my most impactful influences.

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And he just worked hard, just was the most humble man, most godly Christian man, really encapsulated just a heart for Christ and for other people.

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Would just stoop to do the most base things, never exalted himself.

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But that's where I really learned, oh, this is what true manhood is. This is what it truly means to be a Christian in humility and really producing the fruits of the spirit.

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That was his goal. So, okay, just a couple more, and then we'll go on to abortion clinic ministry stuff.

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But what's your favorite food, John? I didn't get this way being picky, but I think

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I'd have to say probably steak.

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Yeah. I'd have to say steak. Ribeye? Yeah, absolutely.

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Yeah, that's the best cut. What about you, Jake? It's really any kind of Mexican food, which is weird because I'm from the

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Midwest. And we keep hearing this rivalry that happens between actually ask someone like, what good

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Mexican food is there in Phoenix? And the answer I got was nowhere. There's none.

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It's only in San Diego. So it depends on who you ask. Those are fighting words. I'm already starting to get a twitch in my eye a little bit.

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You know, there was one good place there that Zach Conover took us to when we had that conference out there.

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Yeah, there's a couple. They're okay places. They're not horrible. It's not like California, but I mean, it was pretty good.

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Zach and Pastor Jeff have been in like full on fist fights about it. It's just like really fighting.

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Yeah, drawn blood. He pulled a gun on me one time. I'm like, okay, okay. Okay. Last question, then we'll move on.

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Okay. What's your favorite way to relax? Fishing.

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Me too. Absolutely. All right, Jake. Just going on walks.

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You know, I do a lot of like even the work I do and like a lot of stuff goes on. Like I think a lot, you know, try to process things a lot and just get now getting fresh air, especially now, like, you know, go near the mountains and stuff like that.

21:04

Love just taking a walk with my wife and son. Yeah. Praise God. Okay, cool. So we're going to shift on over into some, of course, abortion related stuff.

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You guys just jump in and ask. I don't want to dominate the time here, but I just kind of wanted to start off to think what you pick your brain.

21:23

We haven't talked to you about Roe v. Wade since it was overturned. No. John, and just kind of wanted to get your opinion about that, what your thoughts are about that, and how has that affected you in the day to day ministry?

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Because you, when it comes to all the babies that God has saved through your ministry, which is now, remember, we won't talk about numbers because we don't want to get in trouble.

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It's multiple thousands. But what do you think about Roe v.

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Wade and how did that affect it out there in Florida? Well, Roe v.

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Wade, I mean, I'm glad that it's no longer there.

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I mean, I'm glad it is, but it hasn't really changed anything, at least not here in Florida.

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I know it changed things in other states like Louisiana and where they were now able to outlaw abortion in their states where they weren't able to before, as long as that was in effect.

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But for us here, it's been kind of a nightmare because the day that Roe v.

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Wade went down, these people showed up at the abortion clinic and they have not left.

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And they're some of the most wicked people imaginable.

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I mean, so that has not been good. But God continues to move, but it just makes the job much more difficult.

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Because you're having to listen to all this music that you didn't even know existed about the most vilest things that you could ever imagine.

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You have to listen to people talking about homosexual encounters between Jesus and the disciples and just the vilest actions, all those kinds of things is constantly.

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I mean, I'm there from 730 in the morning till usually 430 in the afternoon before they're done.

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And it's just constant. Yeah, that's tough. It's cut down on conversations.

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But like today, we had a young lady burst through them and come over and choose life and wanted my business card because I told her that I could help her with whatever it is they needed.

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And so you still get that. But what you mostly get now is people that leave.

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And I believe they're leaving because of the I call them carnies. They act like carnies, you know, and I think they actually get more people out of there than I've ever seen.

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Because, I mean, you try to imagine a lot of these women that go there, you know, a lot of them are hardcore and they go to have an abortion and whatever, but a lot of them are really struggling with it.

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And when you have girls dancing and singing on the porch, you know, songs like I F'd Your Mom.

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I mean, what does that do, you know, to someone that's going in there? It's like, really, you see a lot of them leave in tears, but they're not going to stop and deal with those people before they get to us.

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So, I don't know, it's just a whole new world down there and it's not a good one.

25:12

Yeah, that's rough. But I think they'll only last a certain period of time.

25:18

That's what we've seen throughout the years, you know. They're kind of motivated by hate, right? Even though they think they're motivated by women's rights.

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But there's no lasting... Well, they've been there six months now.

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And this is just for Central Florida, Orlando. And they have 20 ,000 followers and a million views.

25:43

Wow. This is a little different. It's a little different than any of that kind of stuff you're talking about that I've experienced in the past.

25:51

Yeah. I mean, this is a much different thing. Yeah, and if they're getting that amount of views, they're going to keep going because they're getting the views that they want.

26:00

Exactly right. The attention. Yeah. Well, I mean, the good thing about that is you must be doing something right if the enemy is hot on your tail, right?

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If you're being attacked by the devil, then you must be doing something. He's not going to mess with you if you're not a threat to the work that he wants to do there.

26:17

So even though it's painful, that's a good thing. But I kind of wanted to talk to you a little bit about spiritual warfare because we're kind of leading into that.

26:24

Man, we've really been experiencing it. We've noticed here at Apologia, especially within the last couple of years, you're always under attack.

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But when we really got involved legislatively, state to state, to put these bills of abolition in, man, it's like the enemy ramped up his warfare against us.

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And so we kind of brace for attack when it comes January 1st. Actually, through Christmas, through January 1st, the first quarter of the year, that's the legislative session of all these states.

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That's when these bills are getting in. And he just lets us have it from every angle.

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So how have you kind of dealt with that? I know you're seeing it right now with the

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Carnies and their craziness, but how have you kind of dealt with that through the years? Well, through the years, you know,

27:16

I just preach. I haven't changed my thing at all.

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I mean, they come up and they, you know, you'll get like six or ten of them right in front of you, and they're ringing cowbells and all the stuff they do.

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But you just preach. I just preach, you know, every day. And the people inside hear it.

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And they come out. And that's the way it's been ever since day one.

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I mean, people always want to say, oh, John, you've saved all these babies.

27:56

I've never saved one baby. I mean, I don't have the power to do this stuff. But Romans 116 tells us that the gospel is the power of God unto salvation.

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So our method, the thing I need to keep an eye on is not these Carnies that are on the lawn.

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I have to stay focused on the people that are going in there. And try to just block out the people that come against us.

28:24

Because God is going to do what he's going to do. We just have to be faithful to what he tells us to do.

28:30

That's awesome. That's so powerful. Yeah. I've noticed a little bit, John, in just experiences, you know,

28:37

I've had at abortion clinics. And obviously each context is different. But what have you found to be effective in terms of communication or interaction, if at all, with people like that?

28:51

I mean, what's the approach you typically take? Is it, you know, I'm going to keep my eyes on the building, on the women walking in.

28:58

Is there any level of interaction? Because obviously those people are just there to disrupt and try to drown out the preaching and things like that.

29:07

Is there any level of interaction that you have with them? Yeah. I mean,

29:12

I share the gospel with them. I tell them all I love them. There's been a couple of them that on the side have asked for Bibles.

29:24

And so I've been able to share with them. Many of them that come down do not return after they see all of this and hear the record of the place and all of that.

29:37

But you have this core group that is totally blinded to everything.

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And they just, they seek to devour everybody. Like I have a dear friend, Yoli, who, you know, they research everybody and they find out everything.

29:56

They know my separation date from the Navy. Wow. I mean, they go and they find out everything.

30:04

And then they try to attack you at all of these points. And it's constant and it's ongoing.

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The biggest problem I have to do is to catch myself and make sure that I don't say the wrong thing.

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And the other thing is I have to try and use my words so that they can't.

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Because what they do a lot of times is they video you and they film you and then they take it all out of context, take a little clip, and then they put it into something else.

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And next thing you know, there's, you know, it's just this horrible thing that was never really done.

30:42

But it's, you know, you got to balance all this. And, you know, I've had these medical problems that makes that very difficult.

30:54

How has your interaction with law enforcement been since they've been there? So I'm sure they're calling the cops all the time on you, right?

31:02

Well, the cops are usually there all the time. Well, they're there three days a week. But, you know,

31:14

I'm OK with the police. I mean, they don't hold anything against me. They don't do anything like that, but they don't help me.

31:23

I mean, they've got the ones that come there off duty and they're working there for the abortion clinic.

31:31

So it's kind of a weird position to work through.

31:40

But for the most part, they're OK. I mean, if you complain to them about somebody doing something to you,

31:47

I've never yet had anyone get arrested or anything. I mean, that's, you know, that's just not going to happen.

31:54

Yeah, it's such a double standard out there. You know, I think, you know, they're breaking the law of harassment when they get up in your face and they put the cowbells or the whatever it is that, you know, the microphones within their face.

32:09

That's just that's just direct harassment. But I've never had a cop be like, hey, get away from him. It's just and I don't really get it.

32:16

Well, I've had them do that. Like lately, the police have told them, do not impede their progress whatsoever.

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Like it's illegal for them to like if we're walking on the sidewalk for them, jump in front of you and stand there.

32:34

And so I've been told, yeah, that they can't do that because they always try to do that to then say you assaulted them if you walk into them.

32:44

And so they got rid of that. And all the most mostly the stuff is just, you know,

32:53

I'm not I'm not worried about all that kind of thing. The thing I hate is like you were talking about spiritual warfare, the things that they play, the things that they say, the things that they do really just can suck the life right out of you.

33:16

It's just so vile and wicked. Yeah. And it's just so hard. I don't know how to explain it.

33:22

It's just so hard. Yeah. Well, this is going to ask a question. I was just one more thing.

33:28

So you're there Monday through Friday, six to eight hours a day, something like that.

33:34

They're not open on Monday anymore. And my doctors have wanted me anyway to skip a day.

33:42

So I'm there Tuesday through Friday. Yeah. So do they come in shifts or something?

33:48

They do. Okay. Yeah. Well, I was very well organized.

33:54

That's nuts. Wow. Demonic. Well, I was just thinking as you were talking, a lot of our listeners may not have watched our other episode with you or they might be new to the fight.

34:05

And so I was just I wanted to remind whoever's listening or watching, go watch

34:10

Babies Are Murdered here. That'd be a great place to start. And yeah, I was just thinking, too, when you're out there, what do you think is like if other

34:21

Christians that want to come in and get in this fight say they're new and they're like, hey, I'm feeling convicted and have the desire to go and stand out on the sidewalk, like what would be your first piece of advice for them?

34:35

Well, my first piece of advice would be to come and don't say anything.

34:43

Just come and get the feel of the land, see what they're trying to do, all of this kind of thing.

34:54

I mean, I preach there pretty much. It's only me, you know, three times a day, sometimes four.

35:04

But it's good to have people there that are on the sidewalk and up and down the side of the driveway, the property line to where when they come out, they can talk to them there, you know, and just just tell them the basic thing like we can help you.

35:21

We have thousands of people that want to help you. You can take care of everything you need for this baby and and the other people in your family.

35:36

We really care about you. We really love you. And that's what we try to always try to bring out.

35:47

They need to know. They need to know that God in his kindness has sent us there.

35:53

I know I preach every day and I say part of it. I say that many of you have asked for a sign because I can't.

36:03

How many times have you heard that, Zach? I mean, you know, that's very common.

36:09

I've been looking for a sign. I ask God to stop me. And I just preach it that God in his kindness has sent you that sign you've been praying for.

36:20

God in his kindness has sent people to love you and help you that are different than anyone else in your life that don't want anything from you and just want to give to you.

36:29

So we try to hit it on those lines. But during the preaching, of course, you have to tell the truth.

36:37

You have to tell them what God thinks of that and the massive sin that it is.

36:44

And so God moves every day still.

36:50

He still does move. Praise God. Amen. So if you're listening, so just a recap.

36:56

Just go out and maybe just hold the sign or just say the basics like John was saying.

37:01

You know, I got a reminder today. I was just looking at, you know, how your Facebook will show a memory.

37:07

And it was a message from Zach for my very first day going in the mail eight years ago was today.

37:13

Oh, really? Yeah. I went with you and I stood out there and I didn't say anything, but I held the sign and you were preaching and it was out there in San Diego.

37:21

Yeah, Grape Street right there. Eight years. But that's exactly what I did was I just, for the longest time,

37:27

I only held the sign and then I started passing out tracks and then I was trying to walk in the clinic. Yeah.

37:35

Yeah. So, okay. So what would you say don't do? Like what when you see people coming out there, maybe they've got the best of intentions, but they're going in like guns a blazing and they're fired up for the

37:48

Lord in a good way. But sometimes we can not be wise in our actions. So what would you say?

37:54

Don't do this. I say don't look at them any different than you would at you.

38:04

Or your sister or your daughter or your friend. Because all of us at conception, you go back to genocide, preach this every day.

38:19

At conception, we were all given

38:25

Adam's sin. Every one of us was on a river going straight to hell.

38:31

Every one of us. I was, you guys were and they are. The only difference that separates us from them is the fact that God pulled us out of there.

38:41

So we can't go there thinking that we're something. We got to go there saying that we love you and we don't want you to stay in that river.

38:51

And Jesus said in John 3 17 said, I've not come to condemn the world. The world is condemned already.

38:58

You guys are all condemned. Everybody is. At conception, according to Psalm 51, in sin did my mother concede me.

39:08

He's not saying his mom was a whore. He's saying at conception he was given Adam's sin. And so you have to look at it that way.

39:16

And you have to look at it also in the light of 2

39:21

Timothy 2. Or it says to correct those that are in opposition. If perhaps God would grant them repentance, open their eyes that they might see the snare of the devil have been taken by him to do as well.

39:34

So we're no different. We've just been saved. We walked like them.

39:40

If we were saved at a young age or in a great family, I'll go through all that stuff.

39:47

But we have that same problem. That same problem. And you need to look at them with pity that they're blind and stuck in a trap.

39:59

I think that's one of the reasons. I think that's one of the reasons why

40:05

God is so unusually blessed. Your ministry is because you speak the truth firmly and uncompromisingly, but you got to speak it in love and have true compassion.

40:14

So what I'm hearing you say is we have to see them like that because we can't go out there self -righteously and just beat those type of people over the head.

40:24

No, no, no. In fact, the other day, one of the carnies was saying,

40:32

I tell them all, I always tell them, I love you guys. I really, I weep for you guys. I said,

40:38

I pray that God would open your eyes and all that. And they said, you say you love me.

40:43

That's a fine way of showing it.

40:49

And I said, well, love isn't spelled N -I -C -E. I said, love gives.

40:56

I'm willing to give anything to you. Anything that I could possibly do. Yeah, that's so good.

41:03

And I think that's a really important thing to remember that loving someone, sometimes it's telling them the truth and it can be difficult to hear.

41:13

Maybe it hurts at first, but ultimately, Hebrews tells us it reaps a good reward.

41:20

It's a peaceful fruit that happens later. And I'm also, John, just thinking about what you're saying.

41:26

It reminds me of some of the, even the places in scripture where we're given the clear gospel message.

41:33

You think of Paul in Titus chapter three. He says, for we ourselves were once foolish and disobedient, led astray.

41:42

There's always that reminder of don't forget that this is who you once were. And then that in some ways gives you the right posture to then proclaim the gospel at the call to repentance.

41:54

It's from a place of humility, not a pride. I think it can be so tempting to just the fact of what's happening alone out there.

42:04

Just we know that these children are about to be destroyed. And so that anger towards that sin and that injustice.

42:11

And then when you have, John, like what you were saying, super blasphemous things said about your

42:18

Lord that you love and there's just all this darkness. So in our flesh, of course, we're angry and disgusted.

42:26

But we have to, like you said, be reminded of our own salvation and that we would be walking with them and applauding them if it wasn't for God sovereignly saving us.

42:38

That's powerful. And it's tough, just like you said, because sometimes you just want to like, let's put up your dukes.

42:45

Let me give you the right hand of fellowship, the right cross of fellowship. But we can't do that, right?

42:53

I mean, they're just like they're doing, I think, to you in a heightened way. They're trying to exploit any type of weakness to discredit you and discredit the ministry.

43:02

And we can't give them that. And they'll work on that tirelessly to blaspheme in the name of Christ because of actions that we do.

43:14

We really just have to bear the fruit of self -control. That is one of the biggest issues when it comes to saving babies.

43:21

But you wanted to talk about pastoral involvement a little bit. Yeah, yeah. It kind of dovetails a little bit with what

43:27

Desi asked you, John. I've heard more and more, and this is encouraging, but more and more pastors, local church pastors who want to begin getting involved in this kind of ministry.

43:39

And to me, that's encouraging because, you know, as the pulpit goes or the pastor goes, that's how the church will go.

43:48

So that's encouraging for me to hear. But sometimes there could maybe be some trepidation from pastors.

43:55

Maybe they don't know the first step to take or kind of what it would look like for them to even get involved.

44:01

So, John, maybe speaking specifically to a pastor, what would be some words of counsel you'd give someone who, again, feels this conviction to get involved, but maybe not quite sure where to begin?

44:15

Well, I know that pastors, I just love, like my pastors, they don't have time to come down there.

44:25

I mean, there's no way. There's no way they could do it. They'd have to, you know, give up on, there's so many, they're so extended already when you have a church the size of this.

44:36

But the beautiful thing is, is that what I think pastors should do is love and encourage the people that are going out there.

44:47

And go by once in a while and see what it's like. But if you remember in Ephesians, I think it's in Ephesians 5, it says that the pastor's job is to build up the saints that they might do the work of the ministry.

45:05

Their prime job, I think, is to pour themselves into their people.

45:11

But it is encouraging to have a pastor come out. I've been fortunate enough to have lots of pastors come down from literally all over the country to check it out over the years.

45:25

And it's just been great. I know

45:30

R .C. would come down here, would come down. My pastor Burke has come down.

45:35

He's a wonderful man. And Pastor Don and I know

45:41

Pastor Justin from St. Paul's Press.

45:46

He comes down. He's busy now that he's the senior pastor over there. But David Netzler, well,

45:53

I've got a lot of pastors that have come down and support and encourage. Yeah, because that's not a perspective

46:02

I'd considered before. But you're right with that Ephesians passage of equipping the saints for the work of ministry.

46:08

And that, even thinking it could be a good place to start. Not ostracizing those people who do feel that strong conviction to go out in the public square, out on the street, preaching, being at an abortion mill, and encouraging that.

46:24

And yeah, if they can make a visit, that's great too. But yeah, really encouraging and equipping people to go do that work.

46:31

That seems like a great first step. Yeah. So we ask you a lot about how to get people involved and how to get pastors involved and questions related to really getting people into the fight.

46:45

But I kind of wanted to ask a couple of questions about people who've been in the fight for years.

46:51

And as you know, you can go through times of pretty deep discouragement, being an abortion mill worker, servant for years.

47:02

I mean, intense. The enemy just comes at you from all different angles. You can use your family.

47:10

He can use anything to try to dissuade you and just, I think, just really discourage you.

47:16

I know being in this fight for 10 plus years now, you get really discouraged and you're just like, man, when is this going to end?

47:25

You're sitting out there on the sidewalk. You're like, what? Lord, why? Why can't this just end?

47:30

So I guess my question is, how would you encourage that kind of discouraged worker that's been in the fight for years and years and is really just struggling to get up every day and go do what he needs to do or what she needs to do?

47:47

Well, it would be the same way that I look because I get discouraged and I get.

47:55

So what I do is that I know. That my Lord is pleased when

48:00

I go down there. Any anything else? Really doesn't matter.

48:08

You know that I know that. He loves me. This is what he's called me to do.

48:15

The discouragement can come from not seeing at times a fruit.

48:23

But my brother here just was talking about Jeremiah and, you know, he did.

48:31

He kept doing what God wanted him to do. And God was pleased. I think that's what our goal has to be, is pleasing

48:40

God and doing what serving him because this is what he's called us to do if he's called you to do that.

48:48

And that's been the answer for me, because there's no way of getting over.

48:56

I mean, frustration is going to come and, you know, all the prophets had it.

49:02

Elijah had it. So for us to think that we wouldn't have it is not very smart.

49:11

Of course, we're going to have that same frustration they had. But I think that they found solace in the fact that they were doing what

49:21

God had called them to do. Yeah, that's awesome. I'm sure you've had mornings where you're like,

49:26

I don't want to go. I don't want to get in the vehicle. I don't want to put my pants on.

49:32

I just don't want to go back out there. And really what you're saying is it's the desire to please

49:37

God, to love God through this. That really motivates you to put your pants on and take a shower and get in the car.

49:45

Yeah. But I usually take the shower before the pants don't. I was wondering if you're going to let that slip or not,

49:52

John. One thing

49:58

I wanted to ask about. And I think that when we had first met you, John, and Zach was already going out and I was going on a little bit.

50:06

You kind of touched on this. I think when we first met is just to not get caught up in the drama of actually the kind of infighting that happens within pro -life and abolition fighting.

50:18

You know, all the ins and outs. And you just said, I remember you were like, hey, just don't even worry. Just do what

50:25

God's called you to do and don't worry about all that infighting drama. So how have you done that?

50:31

How have you stayed just grounded and not gotten involved in all that kind of waste of time nonsense?

50:41

Well, in one way is that when I leave that abortion clinic, I leave that abortion clinic.

50:47

I go home and, you know, when my kids were younger, I wanted to know how football practice was.

50:54

I wanted to know whatever. I want to know what's for dinner. I wanted to know other things that are going on in life because abortion isn't everything.

51:04

And so I tried to keep it separate. And since I'm not dwelling on it all the time,

51:12

I don't have enough hours in the day. I only pick and choose who

51:19

I'm going to listen to and who I'm going to. It's so few people that I listen to that it would boggle your mind.

51:28

I mean, as far as pro -life people, the only people I listen to is you guys. I mean,

51:34

I don't listen to any of the other stuff. I don't. I just listen to Paul and Gia.

51:40

I mean, I know that they're not getting caught up in all the drama of who's this and who thinks this and who thought that and who said this.

51:52

You know, you just keep going. You can't stand around defending yourself all the time.

51:58

You try to defend yourself. That's all you'll end up doing. You just got to let God do it.

52:03

Yeah. Reminds me of 2 Timothy 2, 2, 4. No soldier gets entangled in civilian pursuits since his aim is to please the one who enlisted him.

52:12

And that's what you remind me of, just being a good soldier out there, trying to please

52:17

God alone and not getting caught up in civilian pursuits. Yeah. Yeah. Amen.

52:23

I try not to. I mean, I get sucked into things. I mean, one time I got sucked in by Psy.

52:30

You guys know Psy? Yeah. He got me sucked into some Matt Walsh controversy.

52:37

I was at the emergency clinic, and he did one of these things that you're doing.

52:42

He asked me something about some question. I said, who in the world would think that?

52:48

And then next thing I know, I didn't realize all of this, but I was sucked into this thing because Matt Walsh had said something.

52:57

But I don't get into all that stuff. No, because we only have so much time.

53:04

That's it. We should work on trying to rescue babies from being slaughtered. Especially you guys.

53:11

You guys still have young kids and all that. I mean, who has the energy for all that stuff?

53:17

Yeah, exactly. And it was funny. We were at the abortion mill a couple weeks ago, and a really hostile

53:22

Catholic guy. And I don't know. Have you ever had a hostile Catholic guy, John?

53:28

Yeah. Oh, you have? I had one push me over one. Really? Oh, wow. But it's pretty rare.

53:34

They're pretty docile. Yeah, they are. And not so volatile. I mean, all throughout the years, this guy was just raging in my face.

53:41

And I was like, hey, man, how about we just focus on saving babies? And let's leave all these theological disputes off to the side.

53:48

I'll go take you out to lunch, and we can go talk about these. But let's focus on babies. That's why we don't get wrapped up in this drama, because it's really nonproductive.

53:58

It was a fruitfulness in that. I think it's we're giving the enemy an open door just to distract us and sap our power and focus from what we need to do and save babies.

54:10

So I'm going to ask one more thing. We're going to close this out in a few minutes. You guys have anything?

54:16

I just wanted to, before we let you go, brother, I just wanted to maybe ask of a cool recent story, something that God did just recently or whenever, where he just kind of showed off there.

54:31

Well, the one I told you about today was pretty beautiful. But there was one that was pretty awesome that I don't think

54:41

I've told you, but it's been on my mind lately because of just the way it came out. There was a lineup.

54:49

They line up in front of the clinic where I'm at in the morning at about 8 .45,

54:57

waiting for the doors to open at 9. And I was standing out there.

55:04

That's when you get a good chance to talk to the people, you know, besides preaching and all that.

55:10

You just get to offer them help and that kind of thing. And then I went into, you know, what

55:17

I say about what God thinks of this and all that. And then while I'm speaking,

55:25

I look and this girl was like sixth one in the line, a really pretty blonde girl.

55:35

And she gets these tears in her eyes and she walks over to me and she walked in a way that I thought she was going to hit me.

55:42

And she said, do you think

55:49

God will send me to hell if I do this? And I said, well, you know,

55:59

I don't know if you're going to hell, but I can tell you how you won't go to hell.

56:07

And she burst into tears and we started talking. And then we went over and sat on this little wall and we talked for probably an hour, an hour and a half.

56:19

Then I sent her over to this place I send girls to called Choices.

56:26

And she went over there and she met a dear lady from my church named Becky. And she was her counselor in there.

56:37

And then next thing I know, you know, a few hours later,

56:44

I'm back.

56:49

And I look behind me and it was her. Her name's Jade. And I said, what are you doing here?

56:55

I was scared to death. She was coming back to go into the abortion clinic. She goes, I just wanted to have,

57:02

I want to buy you lunch. And I said, what? She goes, I want to buy you lunch.

57:08

And she goes, I want to get a burger work. And I told her, go to Wendy's over here.

57:13

She came back and she was just telling, we were talking about the Lord for hours on this wall.

57:19

And what God had done to her, in her. And then, and then

57:27

I sent a picture, of course, you know me, I mess around all the time. I sent a text to Becky with a picture of me and her eating burgers.

57:37

And next thing I know, Becky shows up. She's kind of like dizzy, you know. She shows up and we're all there just in this giant circle.

57:45

She likes hamburgers. Yeah, right. Well, she did that day. I do like me a hamburger.

57:53

But that was a beautiful day. And God literally saved her. And then, I don't know.

58:01

It's like, what? Four, four months later, five months later.

58:09

She comes back. And with her mother. And her mom wanted to know.

58:17

She asked me to walk over and show her where her daughter had stood when

58:23

God touched her heart. So I walked on the sidewalk and I pointed to,

58:30

I said, she was right there next to that bush. And her mom broke down in tears.

58:36

And it was just one of the most beautiful things I've ever seen. Praise God. I thought you'd like that one.

58:43

It was so, oh, and her baby's name is Sage. Oh, awesome. So cool.

58:49

So beautiful. Well, now you could go on and on about these stories, which is amazing.

58:55

God has been so good to me. Yeah. Yeah. He has. Well, we love you, brother.

59:01

And I honestly don't think a day goes by when I don't think about you and just pray.

59:07

Same here. Pray for you and then also just stay in the fight. I'm like, if this guy, with everything that he's gone through, cancer and brain surgeries and everything you're dealing with now, if he can be out there,

59:17

I should get my butt up. And go out there. So I'm super thankful for you. I love you.

59:22

We're praying for your health situation right now. And yeah, just know that we're excited to get you out here when you can make it.

59:32

Yes. Yes, sir. I love you guys so much. I don't want you to ever forget that. And please send my best to Jeff and to Luke.

59:42

And I don't know what to say. But I would ask that you would pray for the number one thing for me is how to deal with these carnies in a godly manner.

59:55

I mean, that's become my new battle. That's become the hardest thing for me.

01:00:01

Absolutely. Yeah. We will be praying. Yeah. And if you're listening or watching, just maybe you could even make yourself a little note.

01:00:09

Sometimes I have little prayer notes just to remind myself, just dedicate some time to pray for John each morning as he goes out.

01:00:15

And pray for the salvation of these people that are just at enmity with God right now. Right on.

01:00:21

Let's just go ahead and pray now. And we'll close it out. Jake, would you go ahead and pray? Absolutely. Heavenly Father, God, we just come before you and are so grateful.

01:00:30

Lord, we're grateful for the blessing of just being able to talk with John, such a faithful brother in the

01:00:38

Lord. Lord, you've granted him, among many other gifts, you've granted him humility. And I know he doesn't like when we'll speak so highly of him, but he's just such a great encouragement to us.

01:00:49

Lord, we praise you and thank you for him. God, we pray your hand of blessing continually over his ministry that you would go before him.

01:00:56

And that, Lord, you would just put the right words in his mouth, grant him not only courage, not only boldness, but also grant him that gentleness and that respect,

01:01:08

Lord, that you call all of us to give to those who are outside the faith, who are unbelievers.

01:01:15

Lord, may his soft answer turn away wrath. And I pray, God, that you would continue to use him powerfully to proclaim the gospel, that you may continue to save those who are at this place of death.

01:01:28

So, Father, we pray your blessing over him, over all these women, Lord, who even this week are going to show up, that you would do a work in their hearts and that you would bring about salvation,

01:01:37

Lord, that their souls may be saved, that lives may be saved as well. So we pray blessing over him. Thank you for the encouragement he is to us.

01:01:44

And, Lord, we give you the glory in this. It's in Jesus' name. Amen. Amen. All right, bro.

01:01:50

Hey, Zach. Zach, I've got an 18 -foot center console. And there's a place out here called

01:01:57

Mosquito Lagoon that we should go kill some fish one day. Oh, man,

01:02:03

I just would love that more than anything in the world. I'd sell one of my kids to go do that.

01:02:09

No, I'd love it. Yeah, if we're over there, I'll hit you up. All right, buddy.

01:02:14

That would be amazing. All right, we'll talk to you soon, brother. Yeah, I love you guys. Love you too, man. See you later.

01:02:23

Yeah, that was such a blessing. Yeah, he's such a, yeah, incredible. He's one of my, talking about impactful influences, he's up there.

01:02:31

He's just, God has really used him. And I love the fact that he hates attention and praise.

01:02:37

And we're not worshiping the guy, but I think, you know, give honor to where honors do. And we need to point men like these, like him out to the kids too, right?

01:02:46

Because kids are, you know, we have that hero image and we're looking for men to emulate. And so I think it's right to point, like, yeah, look at him.

01:02:53

Look at what he's doing with his life. It's so crucial. So, all right. You guys ready?

01:02:58

Yeah. Thank you for watching, listening to another episode of Provoked. Pray for John and his team out there.

01:03:05

And yeah. Yeah. Well, thanks again for tuning in. And you have any questions about getting your church or yourself involved with the abortion clinic ministry, you can contact us through Provoked.

01:03:17

We'd love to get you connected to people in your area that are doing that already. If we can, you can get an abortion now and talk to Zachary Conover.

01:03:24

He's our director of communications. That's one of the big reasons why we do the show is to get people out there, soldiers in the field, fighting the good fight to save as many babies as we can.