February 12, 2006

Webcasting around the world from the desert metropolis of Phoenix, Arizona. This is the dividing line. The Apostle Peter commanded Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us.

Yet to give that answer with gentleness and reverence. Our host is dr. James white director of Alpha Omega ministries and an elder at the Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church. This is a live program and we invite your participation.

If you'd like to talk with dr. White call now. It's 602 973 460 to or toll-free across the United States. It's 1 877 7 5 3 3 3 4 1. And now with today's topic here is James white.

Responding to Questions About Hebrew Lexicons and Language Study

And morning afternoon. Welcome to the dividing line on a Tuesday morning. We get we get emails and before we get started have one to respond to here. I actually get lots and lots of emails and might Find it easier to respond to some of them this way.

Actually I have I don't know how many I have on my system right now and it takes time to type things. You know, you can talk faster than you can type and But then again people asking for URLs it's easier to type than to talk in that situation anyway.

Question that was asked is which Hebrew English lexicons would you recommend for someone who has no knowledge of Hebrew? I've been corresponding with some people regarding grammatical and definitional issues in the Old Testament needs some sources or in other words I have no knowledge of Hebrew and need some things to get me started.

Well that's uh that's challenge because you can You can install Bible works and you'll have everything you could ever want. I mean, you'll have brown driver Briggs and you'll have the holiday. It's a holiday a plug-in.

The holiday might be something you have to buy and add in but you'll have basically everything you'll need. You've got stuff that you would that you would have for the Greek Septuagint and all sorts of stuff like that and The problem is you can you can bring it up on your screen and You can put your cursor on a word and it will tell you Give you example.

On Christmas Eve, I'm going to be speaking in both services and I have really been struck by a particular phrase in Isaiah 53 and The the term is in the phrase smitten of God and the term smitten is in the whole fault form whole fall participle form and You could Put your cursor on that particular word in the Hebrew text and in fact if you can't read Hebrew you can run your cursor down the the thing and find the exact term and It'll tell you all those things.

But to be honest with you Does the fact that it's a whole fault participle mean anything to you if you don't already know Hebrew? I mean it can it can be very helpful along those lines, but if you don't know the grammar Um, how useful really is that?

So Especially it's a little it's not quite the same thing with with Greek sources. Again, if you've got Bible works got librarnix, I was telling rich yesterday that Somehow librarnix don't ask me how in the world they did this.

But I was looking at that very term in Bible works and I right-clicked it and I happened to look down the list all the way to the bottom and It said Open this in the SESB well, I know what the SESB is, but I've got the Stuttgart electronic study Bible in librarnix not in Bible works and So I click this thing and it opens like products.

It takes me over to its Hebrew text. It's almost like come over here come away from Bible works, you know.

How'd they do that as you will be assimilated.

Resistance is futile. Oh, man. It was it was like, whoa, you guys are pretty that's cutthroat, man. To sneak your own your own right clicks into somebody else's programs. Yeah, but anyway You you can you can do all that stuff and Greeks a little bit easier.

There's all sorts of stuff all sorts of lexical sources it'll come up when you when you bring that stuff up and in Bible works and and Still even at that point looking at BDAG. Looking at something older like Thayer's or any of the resources would be available to even just the UBS little UBS dictionary.

You know on my on my palm here. I I've got UBS and I've got Bauer Dunker Arndt and Gingrich and I've got Freiberg and some others still. There are they're going to be specific terms that are used in those those sources and if you don't know what they mean I Cannot tell you how many times I have seen bad arguments on the internet because someone had no clue What those things meant and so they just start looking at an entry.

And they start going down and even if the if the lexicon Gives their reference at a certain point and says this is how this lexicon, you know Would translate this particular phrase in this particular context.

They'll jump down to some other to say. Oh, look at that. It can mean this and as a result You know come up with horrific arguments about what things mean based upon that that is even more the case when it comes to Hebrew because There is There are all sorts of groups out there that They're looking for a hook.

They're looking for some way of grabbing people and They do it by Saying well, you know your English translation and and things like that if it just took seriously the Hebrew and. And you know, we all know about Dave Hunt coming up with the original Hebrew of acts 13.

But you know, he stole that from these very types of people. He got that from these folks. That's You know as long as you say well, this was originally written in Hebrew and since you're translating the Greek You're not seeing what I see in it.

You can come up with an interpretation that says almost anything at all and so There's all sorts of groups out there on the internet I've clicked on I don't know how many URLs and you know the true insight to the scriptures given from recognizing the the feast days and blah blah blah blah and.

So the problem is that even if you obtain Brown driver and Briggs, let's say okay you you obtain something along those lines and Then you have to figure out roots and and stuff like that I mean the only way for a person doesn't know Hebrew to get almost anything out of these things to have the electronic form.

But even if you obtain these things, what are you gonna do with them? If you don't know the difference between a call and if all in a PL and a pool and he feeling a whole fall in a hip pile and how roots are related to one another and and how a Participial form of a root can can have these kinds of semantic domain changes upon the meaning of the root and so on and I'm running into the same stuff in in trying to teach myself Arabic at the moment and Because it's a Semitic language just like Hebrew and very Sometimes exact same roots between the two which you might think is somewhat helpful in some ways it is.

But in other ways when they're not the same it ain't helpful at all. It's sort of like studying German and French at the same time. I did that once and German blew French right out the door. Just nothing stuck.

I I think it was because I had already known German before I did the two of them at the same time but the real problem was that The French forget to pronounce most of their language. Just to skip over things.

But anyways, that's a completely different issue. So I Would recommend Bible works and things like that if you're just absolutely intent upon looking stuff up. But if who are these people, why are they throwing grammatical and definitional issues out?

What are they trying to promote? Get to the bottom line and see what in the world it is. They're trying to promote and then find out what resources they're using and and you can sort of go from there.

But it's it's really tough to to respond to a lot of this stuff if you don't really have the background in the languages you've taken the classes and and done stuff like that and so that's. That would be my response to that.

Ecumenism, Roman Catholicism, and the Goal of Conversion

I don't want everybody to get the idea that all we ever talk about here are Southern Baptists who can't get a clue on Calvinism. So I wanted to play something else. I was Directed to something that Patrick Madrid had said on EWTN recently.

I couldn't find it. I listened to an entire program and and I wasn't able to find The specific thing that was sent to me, but there was an interesting call and comment. That I wanted to play for you because it addresses something I've said many times and that is that The The issue of ecumenism.

What what is what is ecumenism when it comes to Roman Catholicism? That seems to be the rage today if you want to be accepted in in mainstream academia you need to abandon the old style Viewpoint of Rome you need to start viewing Rome as just simply a Separated communion blah blah blah blah.

Well, how does Rome view us? Well the fact the matter is within the United States, you've got all sorts of of viewpoints expressed within Roman Catholicism, but Roman Catholic apologists Who are defending the unique claims of the Roman Catholic faith?

Tend to be much more conservative in their orientation as you would expect and as such they actually most of the time if they are Consistent will view ecumenism pretty much same way that I do and that is in ecumenism that does not Bring about conversion is a false ecumenism in ecumenism that compromises truth is a false ecumenism that you can't do these things and and That really comes out in the response that Patrick Madrid gives to a caller who saw a Sign for Loyola University up in Chicago, which is a Jesuit school.

That's where Mitchell Pacwa was teaching and when I was When I debated him back in 1991 January of 91 we had a couple debates over in San Diego El Cajon, actually, which again, I'm sure wish we had the videos for those things.

They do exist, but No one's ever seen them because certain Roman Catholics are sitting on them. But anyway we He saw a sign that said Loyola a place for all faiths. Now gotta admit if it was a you know, if it was a Baptist school You know If you saw a sign outside of you would never expect to see a sign outside of Westminster Theological Seminary in Escondido a place for all faiths you know, they might say Everyone of any faith is welcome to come here and learn about Christianity and bow the knee to Jesus Christ it's different thing, but that's that's not quite what a place for all faiths means and.

So the caller calls and he asked about that and he asks Patrick Madrid his opinion on that and I wanted to play this for you. It's in a real audio file. So I don't have it I'm not sure I can be able to start and stop the way I'd like to but maybe we'll just listen to the whole thing I what I want you to really hear is What he is saying regarding the fact that true Ecumenism has as its goal.

This is a Roman Catholic speaking True ecumenism has as its goal The conversion of individuals to the Roman Catholic Church. So many people view that as just well, we're just we're just you know getting to know what we believe and let's just have a little chat.

Even from Patrick's perspective. That's not actually.

Ecumenism. Well, you know, I haven't seen the sign that you're referring to but I've seen other things like it. So I'll speak in the abstract. I won't I won't be commenting specifically on on Loyola Loyola University.

But yeah, I've seen things of that nature where it seems to me that this Ecumenism it borders in on Ecumenism, that's not even a word, but you can be ecumenical in the authentic sense. And let's not forget what authentic ecumenism is and Vatican to actually reiterated this this Reality, although I think many people have missed that.

Authentic ecumenism according to the mind of Christ the mind of the church is a dialogue based on truth that leads to conversion. Ecumenism is not about let's let's find out more about each other so that we can feel warm and fuzzy and and Just you know, enjoy each other's company and never really make any any strides or or progress with regard to truth.

That's not ecumenism. Ecumenism is not where we do like a foreign exchange program where I learn about your church and you learn about my church and we Do that simply for the fact that we'll know each other better.

That's not ecumenism. Ecumenism is a dialogue based on truth that leads to conversion and the conversion we're speaking of here Ultimately when we get right down to it is conversion to the Catholic Church.

Because after all the Catholic Church is the one true Church established by Christ and yes other churches other groups do in fact have Portions of the truth. There's no doubt about that the the Vatican to document lumen gentium makes us very clear that there are portions of the of the truth that are Visible and manifested in other religions.

But they don't have the fullness of the truth the fullness the Vatican to document say subsist and that's a technical Philosophical term which means that it that you can it is located it has its basis or it's standing in the Catholic Church.

So that's the first part. I guess the answer is that we have to we have to be engaged in Ecumenism the right way the authentic way so often. It's not I.

Think that there now, let me just pause it right there. I it could not Agree more from the other side. In other words, you know people say well, you know, why do these debates? Well Fundamentally to glorify God to strengthen the Saints and when you debate Roman Catholics you want to see your own Catholics come out of the Roman Catholic Church and we have.

When you debate Mormons want to see Mormons come out of Mormonism and embrace the truth when you debate Rome, you know Muslims. You want to see Muslims come to know Jesus Christ? That is your purpose.

That is your desire and I just want to make sure everyone knows That that I do not have The attitude of ecumenism and not like anyone was confused. I think I I'm normally, you know hit pretty hard as the the hard-nosed guy the mean nasty guy blah blah blah normally people have never actually listened to me or spoken to me, but that's That I would agree and I recognize in fact, I would have the most respect for I have a hard time respecting a Roman Catholic who comes to me and who wants to have even from their perspective illegitimate ecumenical dialogue.

If they don't think that I should join them and if they don't think that it's important that I join them I Have a lot of difficulty even respecting them and in fact Why am I bothering to discuss truth with you?

Because you don't have a very robust view of truth to begin with to be perfectly honest with you. So, you know That's that's that's the perspective there. There is this.

Blindness that exists in many many circles certainly many Catholic circles. Which views the Catholic Church as if it were one denomination among many or one option among many, you know. The old saying there are many paths up the mountain.

Another way of saying it would be you know. There there are many boats that you can sail along in but don't forget that when God told Noah to build his Ark. He didn't say, you know show other people how to build their own Ark the way they would like it.

He said no. Here's the Ark. I want you to build and anyone who enters into that Ark will be saved. And When the flood came, you know what happened. Noah and his family total of eight people were saved because they entered that Ark.

Now the Catholic Church is like that Ark. Christ went to all the trouble and and literally blood sweat and tears to establish his church that he speaks about in Matthew chapter 16 and he wants people to enter his church and so if we're talking about a university or some other Catholic institution.

Which is inviting people to participate in school or in some other type of cultural event, whatever it may be. With the purpose of helping to expose them to the fullness of the truth and and what they're saying is everyone's welcome here.

I I couldn't agree with that more. I would applaud that. But if what they're saying is hey, look. We're gonna present the Catholic Church as if it's just one among many as far as we're concerned. It really is just one among many then I give that a hearty thumbs down because that's not the the true purpose, it's not the the intention of Authentic ecumenism and what we don't need right now are ecumeniacs.

People who are just sort of blindly flailing away at this project that they call ecumenism they can actually do far more damage and drive people further away from the truth than if they were to give a Balanced clear charitable presentation of the Catholic faith in a way that people can understand.

Thanks for that call I'm gonna very again, I can't disagree. But people need to keep that in mind because so many do have the idea that all they're doing in in having these dialogues and what we should all be doing is sitting around and and you know doing what John Shelby Spong says we should all you know be sitting around and and Talking about what makes us feel warm and fuzzy about our religious faith and getting warm fuzzies off of other people's religious faiths and and that kind of thing that that kind of liberalism Really Struggles to perpetuate itself.

It's it's sterile. It's it's it's empty and it only exists in in cultures under the judgment of God if you want to go from that direction, but Anyway, so I did find that interesting want to bring that attention to that to your attention.

That is eight seven seven seven five three Three three four one. We actually have a webcam going today we're not going to call it a ditto cam because that has undoubtedly been copyrighted and Someone might sue us and in fact someone wouldn't need to bother to sue us someone could buy us with the spare change found in someone's Pockets actually, I'm sure quite easily so I'm not sure what we're gonna call it, but I started testing it out because I've got to be able to use this thing on the road coming up in in January I actually need to do a class while traveling and Could be using a webcam off the computer to try to make that work.

So it should be the doco cam. Yeah. Well, okay, that's The cow cam that we're getting all sorts of suggestions here in channel now. The the cow cam hmm, that sounds a little too much like cow cam and since it was mutato who suggested it.

That's a cow cam or cow can.

Calc I remember. Cow. They still have cow can. I don't think so. That's haven't seen that one for a while. Okay, the can part pride in wasn't real good. That wasn't now. You don't want I'm giving my dog something out of a can.

Well, of course you are. In fact, if you knew what you're giving your dog, you'd you'd be ill but the dog doesn't mind. The dog thinks it's great. It's it's wonderful. So the tulip cam the Calvinista cam the Calvinista cam might work.

That's that's getting closer. That's good. The Calvinist I there's one this is I like Calvinista cam. That's pretty good. Yeah, the Calvinista cam we may have to.

May have to put a link up Calvinista. Jihad cam.

I Know that's and it's not really actually a webcam right now. I'm just setting up an image every 10 seconds. I mean talk about silly, but we'll uh, we'll make it work. Eventually the Coogee cam. There you go.

No one have nobody would have any idea. They don't want to know.

Yeah, all right. Anyway, we need to prove that we are mean nasty baby-eating Calvinists here because that's what everybody says. We had a guy come in. I just missed him Sunday night a guy named but with a Nick Azusa.

And I looked back at some of the dialogue. Wow this guy if this wasn't Dave Hunt. Dictating to this guy this this is a guy who lives on Dave Hunt. And man, it was it. What someone said something about Dave Hunt he said.

Well at least Dave Hunt hasn't burned anybody alive or something like that.

I think I poked in a little bit on that while it was happening. I was like, you know what everybody else in the room is handling it. Very well. I'm leaving it alone. Yeah. Yeah, I just.

I really wish I'd had an opportunity to Chat with that fellow though. Then again, I might not have wanted to Because it sounds like he was listening to the same sermon. We're listening to and that is by dr Jerry Vines past president of the Southern Baptist Convention and We have been listening to a sermon.

He delivered back in October. It's taken us quite some time At the at First Baptist Church Woodstock in Georgia and We're getting toward the end. So I want to press through and get to that. We had been looking at the subject of the atonement and We didn't get very far.

Irresistible Grace and the Misuse of Calvinist Proof Texts

Last week he had just made the comments, you know Sufficient for all efficient only for the elect and we were talking about purposes of God and things like that. We continue at that point.

All right, number four. Irresistible grace. I'm coming along pretty good here. Irresistible grace. Now, this is the teaching that God irresistibly draws the lost sinner with his grace Regenerates him causing him to repent and believe.

Some refer to this as the effectual call. Now if you push back to the extreme as some of our Calvinist friends do it means that the elect are not able to resist God's grace to save them.

What is the non-extreme? Pushing of it. What you know, we keep hearing this extreme extreme extreme and nobody wants to be extreme. So all you got to do is just you know Do what Norman Geisler did and identify the historic understanding these things as the extreme.

Well, if that's the extreme, what's the non-extreme? I mean if men are dead in sin and if God's Grace is is powerful and does not fail then what's the non-extreme version of this? I mean the the difference between monergism and synergism between one power that brings about Salvation in the sense of regeneration and bring the person to relationship with you know with God through faith that That's one side and synergism.

You can you can join one or a thousand powers to God's power but the chasm is between mono and soon one or more than one you can have Dynergism or trinergism or whatever you want as many as you want. That's all synergism.

That's all synergistic. He's just identified monergism as extreme. So what's the non-extreme part? No one ever seems to ask these questions or think that it might be good to answer them.

They use John 644 among many other passages. No man can come to me except the father which hath sent me. Draw them. The elect have no say in the matter.

Um, well that goes back to unconditional election, which is why it's Unconditional. It's not the fulfillment of a condition. The elect have no say in the matter in the same way that Lazarus had no say in his resurrection or the dead bones in Ezekiel's vision had no say as to whether they're raised to life and the This the heart of stone had no say and whether it was taken out and replaced the heart of flesh and etc Etc, etc.

It again I go back to Potter and clay. To say the elect have no say in the matter Is to say that the Potter has the right to form from one lump vessels under honor and vessels under dishonor which is Sort of what the Bible does teach.

That's clear. We're saved by grace.

But the Bible is also clear that it is possible for us to reject the overture tours of God to the soul.

And of course this once again demonstrates that the fact that this is a template sermon. This is this is where you just simply borrow from someone else. You don't listen to what the one side is actually saying and.

Because when you make a statement like dr. Vines just made That you should know the other side would agree with. And in fact would say outside of the saving grace of God. Every person would reject every overture and in fact would remain in their sin and remain in their rebellion.

Constantly without break without cessation. If you if you knew the other position well enough to know that then you wouldn't make Statements that demonstrate that you really aren't fairly representing them.

You're not actually engaging the subject in a meaningful fashion. You would express yourself in such a way as to not have inherent misrepresentation. But unfortunately, that's not what you get when you have these template sermons going around they're just meant to be inoculations surface-level inoculations.

You still know you're gonna lose some folks because you're just not getting deep enough here. You're not providing a meaningful enough apologetic at all and so. But but you're gonna keep most of your folks and I guess that's just good enough.

Hebrews 10 37 38 God draws. Yes, but listen to what that passage says. Now the just you live by faith. But if any man draw back my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

Okay, what does that mean? Are we you are you seriously attempting to draw any kind of exegetical contextual or a didactic parallel Between the drawing of the father which results in being raised up by the son in John 6 44.

With the soul that draws back in the book of Hebrews a book written to people in the Jewish Christian Church. Who were who would be under constant pressure to go back to the old ways? So to draw back would be to have confessed faith in Christ to confess The the sacrifice of Christ and then to give in to that pressure and go back.

That's a constant theme throughout Hebrews, isn't it? And so Where's the connection here, it's just a simple word draw my goodness, I mean here this this is the kind of of Simplistic Isagetical error that that should be covered in the very first Bible class in Hermeneutics, this isn't even seminary level error.

This is this is basic basic stuff and that's why people they keep saying what are the best books on Armenia? I want to read the best books. There are there the Armenian attacks in Calvinism. There are two kinds of Armenian books about Calvinism, okay.

There is the one kind that is the the Dave Hunts and and the Norman Geisler's and the Vance's and the George Bryson's and on and these and the Frank pages that have I Say is which is as much charity as the subject deserves.

Laughable eisegesis. You know quoting half of a verse and And dedicating a short paragraph to an entire text that you could exegete for three pages without exhausting anything. There's there's no substance to them.

They're there. They try to pretend that they're exegetical, but they're not then the quote-unquote more scholarly works of formal Armenians in seminaries are not exegetical. In fact, you look up the scripture index and most of the texts won't even be mentioned.

They don't even pretend to try to present an extra Exegetical perspective because they recognize theirs is a philosophical position. It's not an exegetical position. Those the kinds of books if you're looking for the one in the middle, it ain't there.

I Mean look look up the Malcolm Lavender's and look up these people when you start digging into what they're saying. It's There's no substance to it. It's it's It's empty. It makes claims, but it's completely empty.

No consistency whatsoever, and that's what we're encountering here. We will continue with Jerry Vines were already believe it or not halfway through the program I don't know where the time went, but we'll be right back right after these messages.

Justification by Faith and Ministry Resources

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The proclamation of God's truth is the most important element of his worship in his church. The elders and people of the Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church invite you to worship with them this coming Lord's Day.

The morning Bible study begins at 9 30 a .m. And the worship service is at 10 45. Evening services are at 6 30 p .m. On Sunday and the Wednesday night prayer meeting is at 7. The Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church is located at 3805 North 12th Street in Phoenix.

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We continue with the Jerry Vines sermons and I see some phone calls. We'll be screening here in a moment and getting your comments as well.

Getting toward the end here though. So we press forward. The Bible teaches that man's will can resist God's will act 751. You do always resist the Holy Spirit.

Now I've said many times before if I ever hear anyone citing act 751 as if it is relevant to the subject of Calvinism I automatically know this person is clueless. This person has no idea what they're talking about.

They got this sermon from somebody else. They got this talk from somebody else. They got this book from somebody else, whatever it might be. They don't know what they're talking about because if you know.

What irresistible grace is? You know that the statement is not that God's grace is irresistible. There's all sorts of God's grace is resisted every day. There's not a Calvinist who's ever said anything other than that.

It's not even an issue. The issue is when God determines to save one of his elect people. Not just curb sin in this this person over here and or any type of common grace when God chooses to save one of his elect people bring that perfect salvation to fruition that person's life is God capable of failing in.

Doing that and the answer of course is no. Act 751 has nothing to do with that. Just look at the context read it has nothing to do with it. So if you cite it, you've just told me you don't have any idea what you're talking about.

You just you just don't you you're not dealing with the issue fairly and This would just. I don't care what your religion is. I don't care if you're Jehovah's Witness on a Calvinistic jihad. I don't care if you're a Mormon.

Who just can I even begin to understand how they could believe these things? I don't care if you're a Muslim. I don't care who you are. I don't care if you're the past president. Southern Baptist Convention.

You are not representing the subject in a meaningful fashion Jesus said in Matthew 23 37.

How often would I but you would not now?

There we go again, how many we've got to put up a scoreboard someplace. How many times can you completely ignore the actual reading of the text of Matthew 23 37? How often can you do it and how many different people? Will be able to completely destroy Matthew 23 37, you know, the more I hear this the more I'm absolutely convinced of the correctness of my commentary on it.

You know why. Because these folks don't even know what the text says. They've never even begun to examine it in a fair fashion. If their mind is so made up by a time They got there that they can continually ignore what it says in black and white right in front of them.

Then they've never listened to another viewpoint. They've never examined themselves in any meaningful fashion on this subject. So has someone actually provided a meaningful counter exegesis to the one we've offered?

No. There obviously dr. Vines has never thought about he's just heard it this way over and over again. So you can just ignore what the text says ignore the distinctions that are right there in the text no textual variations nothing like that at all just throw it all out and Just say I would but you would not that's not what it says.

Now the will of God God wills it all be saved. Second Peter 3 9. He is not willing. This is not on the graphics guys. I put in some extra for you. Not willing that any shouldn't perish but that all should come to repentance.