Live with Andrew Rappaport about Open Air Theology conference "Why Calvinism?"

Verse 3, Proverbs 8, 23, Proverbs 22, 28,

Proverbs 23, 10, and Ecclesiastes 1, 10. And should I go on for more?

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. This is Apologetics Live. To answer your questions, your host from Striving for Eternity Ministries, Andrew Rappaport.

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I always love that one. That's a great theological response when you can't respond biblically to a claim you made.

You just go blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I love that. Well, welcome to Apologetics Live. I'm your host,

Andrew Rappaport, here to answer your most challenging Bible questions. We can answer any question you have about God and the

Bible. If you doubt me, well, you just go to Apologetics Live, click on the

StreamYard icon, join us, give us your most challenging question. And remember, if I say,

I don't know, that's a perfectly good answer. Let me bring some folks in.

We're going to do a shorter episode tonight. I'm going to bring in the man, the myth, the legend himself,

Mr. Jeffrey Rice. Yo, yo, yo. We got his, I don't know, are these the three musketeers?

We got Haps Addison and then Patterson. We like to call ourselves

Open Air Theology. Yeah, well, and so you guys are from the

Open Air Theology podcast and you guys have a conference coming up.

Hmm. That's what we're here to talk about tonight. So we're going to have a little bit of a shorter show tonight, folks.

But we want to encourage you to go to check out OpenAirTheology .com. And on there,

I'm just going to present real quick. Do, do, do, do, just want to share screen to show you what it is that we're going to be doing over there.

And this, even though this is old information, by the way, just for the record, but because the schedule changed, but why

Calvinism? It's going to be in Tennessee if you're in the area. But just to go down and look at some of the, and these we're going to talk about tonight, we're going to talk about the pre -conference.

There's a pre -conference debate on the dangers of full preterism. Now, just for the record, that's what

Jeffrey Rice holds to. I just figured

I'd see the reaction. I hope too that it's dangerous. I thought you, you really,

I thought you were a big fan of, of that. No. Okay. I am a preterist just like everyone else is.

So this conference is going to be February 21st with the pre -conference starting at six to eight 30. This part has changed.

It's, it's moved around for some reason, Jeff didn't want to be first. So he threw me to the dogs and now

I'm the first talk. There's an advantage to that Haps, don't laugh because I get to then relax and enjoy the conference the rest,

I get it done. You know, the advantage of going first is anything bad that I say, no one remembers.

You know, and if I say something brilliant, which, well, that won't happen.

But if I do say something brilliant, all the other speakers will refer to it again so that everyone will remember it.

See, that's the advantage of going first. So the real thing is I just get to enjoy everything.

Let's look at the topics we got, and this has changed because we've added, there's, you guys have added some speakers, but Jeff, you're going to be talking on, on the

Calvinism of Jesus. Correct. Which will be dealing with regeneration, proceeding faith.

So you say, are you saying that Jesus came up with that? It wasn't from Calvin. I thought

Calvin came up with that. No, I truly believe that if Jesus was walking the earth today, you'd have people like Layton Flowers saying, you

Calvinist. That's the doctrine of the devil.

He's going to, isn't he going to be at the conference? He's supposed to be coming to support

Jason Brita. Oh, is that why he's coming? Yes. He actually wanted us to give him five minutes after each speaker to rebut us.

Is he, so is he coming to the whole conference or is he just coming for the debate? I'm not sure.

I'm only expecting him Saturday, but I would love it if he sat right in the front row during your message.

So it'll be good that, that I, I think it'd be really good.

I mean, I'm just picturing Layton Flowers, James White, Matt Slick, and myself getting together.

Oh my gosh. Well, the one good thing for Layton Flowers is, is that this conference is going to give him like two or three years of material.

Oh, folks who don't know, in case there's someone that doesn't know Layton Flowers. So Layton Flowers does, he claims he used to be a

Calvinist and he, his big thing is to speak against Calvinism, which every Calvinist that I know of tells

Layton that he's misrepresenting Calvinism. That should be a warning sign. If everyone who holds the position tells you you're misrepresenting it, that's not good.

Right? So, so he's planning, if he's planning to be there, that'd be great.

But he's a really nice guy. That's the thing. He's a really nice guy. So I'm going to be talking on the, on the history of Calvinism, basically going through, this may be a shocker, but Calvinism didn't start with Calvin.

And I'm just going to say that, um, you know, we may have a different view of James Arminius, Jacob Arminius.

Was he actually a Calvinist or not? Just saying we could discuss it. R .C.

Sproul's done a lot of work in that area. It's kind of interesting, but yeah,

James Arminius. Jeff's like shaking his head. Like, oh no. Well, you know, I mean, I just think it depends on what you would, uh, uh, call a

Calvinist. Right. If you're talking about the, the, all five points of the tulip, then we'll see.

That's the whole point. There was no tulip. Yeah, I know. I know what I'm saying. Like if you, if you label it in that, in that sense, then

I would say no, but I would think that, that if you're praying to God and you're asking

God to save your neighbor, your mom, your dad, whatever it may be, your child, and you're asking

God to, uh, grant them salvation to save them, then you're a Calvinist, whether you like it or not.

Well, let me ask you a question. I'll ask this of Haps. I know you like to evangelize.

Um, do you know anyone that prays like an Arminian? Yeah. Yeah.

They, they pray like, they pray for people to get saved like an Arminian or pray like a cow.

Really? Yeah. Yeah. I haven't met anyone that prays like an Arminian.

Well, you ain't heard Haps pray. I mean,

I'm going to pray for you later, dude. Everyone prays for God to save people.

You know, uh, you had someone that once said, he said to me that I pray like a

Calvinist and I preach the gospel like an Arminian. And I, I'm, I said, well,

I'm praying that God would change their hearts, but I don't know if they're one of the elect. So I'm going to preach to them, you know, that they need to repent.

Yeah. Yeah. Is there a different gospel that's been preached? I mean, I mean that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures or buried on the third day, rose again, according to the scriptures.

I mean, is there a different gospel? Well, according to Paul in Galatians, yes.

It's a false gospel. It's not really a gospel. He calls it an accursed one, but yeah, there, there is.

So let's see. So we got, okay, so let's go through some of these guys. You got

Claude Ramsey. Oh yeah. Uh, Brandon, I'm going to let you, do you, does this guy for people that don't know who he is, does, does he preach with any kind of, um, compassion?

Look, I'm starting to hydrate my body right now because I know that I will be crying during his message.

Oh yeah, dude. So I'm getting ready for that day right now. He, uh, he, he, uh, would out preach, uh, when

I say out preach, I mean, bring passion to preaching Christ crucified in such a way that would put every, uh, preacher in his, in the pew of his church.

Like no one can bring the amount of passion that Claude does. It's amazing. And last year he sung a part of a hymn in his song, in his message.

I really hope, I hope I can see that again because I was bawling as he did that. Oh yeah, dude. But, but, but Brayden, you cried during every message.

I did. You cried during every message. Of course he had to bring that up. Every time I looked at you, you was crying. I was like, man, he's tall.

We had to counsel you for a month afterwards. He was not, he was not crying during my message.

He was sleeping. So no, I was crying during yours too, man, just to hear, uh, salvation is in Christ and that he saves a wretch like me, man, it'll, it'll get me every time.

We got, it looks like, so on the Calvinism Luther, you guys brought in Doug Wilson wannabe and the

Harvard Freight, Harvard Freight Wilson, Harvard rate version, none other than Keith Pawlski.

If folks, if folks don't know who Keith is, well, you'll just have to go look them up to figure out why we say that, but he was, he was there last year just doing podcast interviews.

Now you got him preaching. He can preach. I didn't know him too well last year. I just knew him as the funny guy on the internet.

My wife really enjoyed him and he contacted me about getting a booth. And then over the year we got to know, get to know one another.

He mentioned about, you know, if we were to ever do a, uh, something on Calvinism, he wanted to do something on Luther and it just kind of fell into place.

Yeah. And Calvin, the Calvinism of Luther, Luther was a

Calvinist, just like Jesus. Well, I mean, everyone's, uh, inconsistent.

I mean, look in the mirror, come on, right now I'm looking in a screen and seeing you.

So I guess you're right. Brandon, what, what are you going to be talking about here?

The Calvinism, the old Testament to the new covenant, new covenant. Yes. I'm really going to be focusing on, on God's sovereignty that has always been plan

A that he brought about the Christ through a progressive revealing of covenants, uh, to the ethnic people of Israel to bring about the

Christ, the seed of Abraham, uh, of the tribe of Judah, uh, through just predestination, sovereignty.

And ultimately that is what enacted the new covenant according to Hebrews chapter eight. And that is the covenant where sins are forgiven and iniquities are remembered no more.

And it's just like how in the old Testament, you were a child of Abraham.

You are part of the old covenants through being born into the covenant. Likewise, you must be born again to enter into the new covenant.

And it is salvific atonement met just for the members of that covenant and that covenant alone.

And then Brandon scalp is going to be preaching now. If folks have not heard

Brandon preach, Brandon, um, he's got the cruciform conference that he does.

I've been privileged to hear him preach on multiple occasions, not just at his conference, but also at his own church.

I had the privilege of being in his church and listening to him preach. Uh, would you say he's a good preacher?

What do you say? Yeah. Perhaps. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Scalp, you know, uh, uh,

CH scalp, man, let me tell you that he, he can preach. He is one of my, uh, actually, uh, one of my favorite, uh, preachers, you know, like he really, really gets into it and I love him as a brother too.

So, and so it makes sense that he's preaching on the preaching of Calvinism. Yeah. We got, we got the, the dark horse.

And I say this because you got Kevin Hay and a reason I say he's the dark horse. If anyone hasn't watched the

Q and a from last year's conference, I'd encourage you to go back because these guys, these guys all thought at this conference,

I was the only dispensational guy on the page. And all of a sudden they found out, wait, they had a closet dispensationalist.

He was smart and just kept it quiet. It was like, you just watch that Q and a folks go back to open air theology conference from last year.

Watch it. The Q and a, when they, when all of a sudden Kevin reveals he's a dispensationalist, everyone's like, didn't we end the end, the

Q and a right there to Jeff, I laughed because we were making fun of, well, actually we were making fun of Greg, the

Presbyterian. And then when Greg found out Andrew was a Presbyterian, he was a dispensationalist.

This started the very first night and folks, I'll give you the real, the real reason to attend this conference.

Cause you can watch the videos later. I granted it's the fellowship.

Yeah, definitely. I Jeff, I've said this to you. I'm not saying anything. I haven't said to your face, but the way this conference has been organized is outstanding.

I think I've loved the structure of this conference more than any other conference I've been to. It's a little bit more days.

Okay. Because you got the 20, the 22nd, the 23rd, the 24th, so it's three days, but it ends by six, five, six o 'clock.

You go out to dinner every night is like a theology throw down. Oh yeah. So the first part there at, at we, we actually went to Buffalo wild wings.

There was, I think a hurricane warning or tornado. We couldn't leave there inside and you guys were ripping on me for being a dispensationalist.

Then all of a sudden you all decided to rip on Greg for being a, you know, Presbyterian. He was the only

Presbyterian there. I was dinner. I was the only dispensationalist and all of a sudden

Greg like realizes everyone's piling up on him. He goes, what are you digging on me for? He's a dispensationalist and you all just turn your guns right back to me.

Greg and I were sitting right next to each other. It just goes to show, you know, you look, you get two people against everyone else.

You would think that they would bond together to fight everyone. No, Greg just says, Hey, throw him under the bus.

And Greg's going to be the host this year. So he'll be introducing everyone. He's going to play a big part in it just to show that I love my

Presbyterian brothers. I mean, I really think they need to keep reforming, but, you know, it is what it is.

Yeah. Okay. So, so we got Kevin Hay speaking on the wrath of God.

And then we had a speaker come last year, digging you out. You had a spot to fill.

You had a guy you, you didn't know that well, just preached like great.

Yeah. Like just the, the, the surprise of the conference last year, and he's going to preach about Calvinism and the love of God.

Interesting topic, Jeff, why, why that one would, you know, I thought Calvinists don't believe in that God loves.

Well, God so loved the world that he gave his one and only son, his only begotten son.

Right. So, so how can we say that, that God does not love, right. And, and, you know, that word for world there, it's not, he's not saying that God just loves the

Jews on the, on the edge of the Mediterranean sea, but God so loved the whole world.

So that every ethnic group, red, yellow, black, or white, whoever believes in him will not perish, but have eternal life.

You see, there's the, the true two truths that run through the Bible and a true

Calvinist will hope to these two things. And it is that God is sovereign and that, and that man is called to repent and believe.

Now the deal is, is how can a man repent and believe if God is sovereign? And that's why the conference is coming up and called why

Calvinism, why it's important to have this understanding. You got to have both understandings. You cannot just, if you ride one side of the fence, you're a hyper -Calvinist, and if you ride the other side of the fence, you're an

Armenian or a provisionist, right? So Calvinist believes in both.

That John 3, no, excuse me, John 6, 37, for all that the father gives me, there's sovereignty will come.

There's so we will, I actually came to Christ, right?

So in my experience, if you ask me my testimony, I'm going to give you the testimony of what I experienced and I experienced myself coming to Christ.

When I got into the word of God, I understand why it is I came to Christ. And that's why

I say in my book, what do we believe? I say experientially we chose Christ, but theologically

God chose us. Right. And that's the difference is, and I think the big problem a lot of people have is they're stuck in their experience and not the theology.

Who's this next guy preaching on the Calvinism of Paul? Brendan, who is this guy? James White, who's he?

I don't know. I don't know. He's a new guy. I think,

I think, I think he was a guy that had Brandon stumbling last year.

Who is this? Who's Brandon? Who do you keep calling Brandon? Brayden, sorry. He had,

I think he had you stumbling there as, as he came in as an elder. Oh yeah. Oh yeah.

Last, so last year, um, elder Lucas, I converted him out of Mormonism and now he's known as James White, uh, which is pretty exciting.

So it could be said, I converted James White to Christianity. Pulled him right out of Mormonism.

So you have a, you have a background of Mormonism and you, you defend

Christianity against Mormons all the time, but James White came in acting as a Mormon elder and kind of had you in pretzel mode there,

I think for a little bit, but you know, I, I think it just had to be with your, your busy with, uh, you know, the fact that you were having

James White challenging you. I mean, look, no, who wants to debate James White anyway? Right. That's a fact.

I don't, I feel bad for Jason that this debate that we're going to talk about here in a second, but man, you know, it was, uh, it was really fun to sit there on a stage talking about trying to convince

James White of the gospel. I was like, dude, this is weird. This is really weird, but he did a good job playing the part.

It was, it was lots of fun. Yeah. So, uh, the next day, at least the ones you have, you have

Sam Waldron on the will of man in Calvinism. My homie.

He's your homie. Um, I don't know. I'm the person. Right. And he's always, he's always cool.

He's always quoting him. He's a little Sam Waldron said, well, Sam Waldron said, is he going to be sitting there and like star stress?

Yeah. Sign my Bible. Sign my kid's Bible. Yes.

So the next, the next guy we got, we got this heretic preaching, uh, on Calvinism and evangelism.

What were you, what were you thinking? Having a haps at who's this haps Addison guy? I mean, you gotta put them in somewhere, right?

I mean, well, you know, this, this is what Melissa says. Melissa says this, uh, he looks like ZZ top.

I'm, I'm, I'm shooting for it, man. I want it down on my belly. We got to live long enough.

So, so haps, what's your message going to be on and will it be longer than 20 minutes? And are you going to let, are you going to let

Andrew see your, uh, no, I'm not going to let him see it this time. Let me, maybe you should let me see it like this week.

Just saying, let, let, let me tell you what, what, what happened to everybody this real fast.

So me, Brayden and, uh, our, our, our, our big brother right here. We, uh, we had an

Airbnb and, uh, you know, you know, everybody's just kicking in and Andrew's sitting on the couch and, uh,

I go, Hey, Angie, would you mind like, you know, checking out my, uh, you know, my sermon? He goes, yeah, sure.

And I give him my iPad and he raises through it and he goes, um, uh, how long, uh, do you plan on preaching for?

And I go, why? He goes, did you use a word counter? I go, what are you talking about? And he goes, you didn't use a word counter.

You know, how many words is this? And I'm like, what are you talking about, dude? He goes, is there going to be filler? And I, you know, for a second,

I didn't know what filler was. I go, yes, of course. Yeah, of course. It's going to be filler. And then he, he gets up and he hands me back and he goes, what, you only plan on preaching for like 20 minutes.

And I go, Andrew, don't do that to me, dude. It don't, don't. And he just got this big smile on his face and he walks right to the bedroom laughing as he shuts the door behind him and I'm freaking out.

Freaking out. I just wanted the rest of the message. I'm not good at, at writing it down, you know, how long did it take you to preach through what you had in your notes?

35 minutes, 35 minutes. No, no. That was the filler. Six and a half minutes.

You know what? I'm really excited about this topic right here because, uh, this, this is, um, uh, uh,

I mean, I mean, the name of the conference is why Calvinism, you know, so, so really my appeal is to those that aren't

Calvinist, but a reminder to Calvinist, you know, that, um, it, we don't have to talk anybody into anything.

You know, what, what we need to do to stay faithful and preach the gospel, because this is why the gospel was preached even to those that are dead.

So we just need to bring our shovel, you know, and that's, that's, that's it right there, you know?

I would have, I would have taken this topic if it was offered to me, but it was already taken. Thanks.

Hats off. I mean, if y 'all want to switch, y 'all can switch.

No, no, no. Yeah. Let's make him switch last minute. Uh, Jeremy Terry.

So Jamie Terry had to, uh, uh, call out. And so you replaced him with seriously on Calvinism in the gospel and you replaced him with some slickster, some guy

I've been telling him that was a bad idea. Oh, dude, I'm going to jack you up, son.

You of all people, you, you're, you're friends with the slickster.

I was the one that suggested him. I actually called Matt and we were chatting and he was like, Hey, it was actually kind of funny.

I was like, yeah, you should come to this Calvinism conference. He was like, yeah, you know, I can see if I can do that. But you know, if only you knew somebody that has dedicated their whole life to Calvinism and if you had invited him to preach,

I bet he would have said yes. And I was like, oh, I feel like a dirt bag right now. Big dirt bag.

And so I called him Jeff and asked, I was like, Hey, you remember how Jamie isn't preaching anymore? Uh, which Jamie's a wonderful preacher.

Uh, and I was like, Hey, I, I think I got a suggestion that Matt Slick might, I think he would love to come.

Slickster man, dude. I was so dude, I reached out to Michael Schultz right away. You know, he's the, the

Dean, Dr. Schultz of a Forge Theological Seminary. And I told him who we got and he was just so taken back because that's what got him started off in school.

He started off in, you know, just like with me too, you know, I started off at CARM when I did all those certificates, all of them, you know, but, uh, yeah, it's just really neat how

God brings it back full circle, you know? Yeah. You know, when I was at the, on the board of CARM, I, uh,

I used to tell people when I'd speak, I'd say, I'd say CARM has trained more pastors than any seminary because every single seminary student went to CARM for their research.

So Matt, Matt has actually had a greater influence. I would argue, you know, when you look at how many, how many people

CARM has influenced, uh, of seminary of pastors, uh, than any one seminary, because everyone went there.

I, I put, I put so many people through his, his, uh, his school through, uh, that, you know, that was in my program over the years and I'm talking years and years of putting people through it.

And it was just, it was just so helpful. But I do have to say, Andrew, you know, this, because you and I are in the same boat when it comes to Matt, we know him in person.

So like Jeff and Haps are like, Oh man, we're so excited. The guy from CARM, Matt is going to be here. I'm like, dude, just wait, you know?

And, and, okay. So someone's correcting me. Cause I said, Matt has trained, you know, more seminary, more pastors than anyone seminary.

So, um, J 3 16 ministry says probably not more than Rick Warren. Well, you know, you got to give credit where credit's due.

Yeah. More, more pastors than there are pastors.

And the apostles, he probably trained Jesus also spent three and a half years away from Rick Warren.

Yeah. He'd probably argue that, that Jesus came to him for, you know, for three and a half years for discipleship before he started working with the disciples.

So what's it, what's the debate topic? The closing debate with James White. What's that the topic going to be?

Um, did I, I don't know if I wrote it down. Let me see the doctrine of limited atonement, biblical and important.

Yeah, right. That's it. And I, you know, I actually found this interesting because either way it's, it, it is worded it's, you know, cause if he is atonement, biblical and important.

It's basically going to be speaking about limited atonement. Like that's like a Puritan version of limited atonement.

But I think, I think the good part about how this is worded is that then you can now bring that into a little bit more stuff with penile substitutionary atonement.

And, and some of the, the other limbs that are attached to limited atonement.

Right. So I think if you had said limited atonement, it would have narrowed in the debate more. Whereas this is, is going to go more broad and it's reform doctrine, which

I think is going to be really, really good. I'm very excited for that. Okay. Just to go back to a previous topic though, you mentioned people that know

Matt Slick personally. Yeah. There's an individual who Matt Slick was coming through town.

Uh, his car broke down and there's a guy that helped him out and Matt speaks highly of him.

And this is what Mr. Honhold says about Matt. Matt's a handful, just saying.

I'm telling you, everybody that knows, we got someone that speaking to Rick Warren says,

Warren be taking people's credit cards. Good point there.

So this is kind of a long, someone says if I'm saved because of the, of the, the gospel is irresistible to me, then how is this topic important?

Ooh, who wants to tackle that one? Well, if it's in God's word, it's important by the very fact that it is

God who's speaking. And I think that's the, that's where I would start. I'll pass it to one of these brothers, but that's the, where I would say is if God teaches it, it's very important right then and there.

Yeah. I mean, anything that's in his word is important. And, uh, and I would just echo some things.

Like I know that the word Biblicist is catching a lot of heat these days. Right. Uh, and I would say that if you're a

Baptist by definition, you are, and you're not like the churches of Christ, who would say something like, uh, no creed, but Christ, which is a creed.

But it's, it's just the whole idea that if the Bible doesn't say it, then it better teach it.

If it doesn't do either one of them, then what are we doing? Right. And the problem is, is we have a lot of people out here reading their

Bibles and yet they're messing the, the rich teaching of Calvinism.

Right. And so what we want to do is it's kind of like, go back to John, John, I just mentioned earlier,

John 6, 37, all that the father gives me will come. People read over that and it's kind of like, but what are you doing?

But John 17, three says the same thing, or no, John 17, two says the same thing.

And that goes the same thing. All that the father gives me and they read that and they just, they don't understand what it is that they're reading.

And so we want to, to, to not only show them exactly what they're missing, but actually how it's applied and how it's good for the church, hyper -Calvinism bad for the church, biblical

Calvinism, good for the church, which I think, I think you even said it earlier is that all that the father gives me will come to me.

Right. So part of the irresistible grace is the fact that we are coming to a knowledge of God that is one that one would not ever reject.

We're going to come to it. And it's also, I recently just gave a message, somewhat dealing with this.

If, if God was a, was a fisherman, every time he cast his hook out into the sea, he gets the fish that he wants.

He's not a failed fisherman. He's not a 50 % catch rate fisherman. Uh, when the father draws you, you will come to him because he's effectually doing it.

He doesn't have a failed work in his hand. Um, he, he, he pulls you in, he draws you in and it just so happens that you do so because you want to, because you want to come to be a part of that fisherman's net.

Yeah. I mean, when you look at the text, so you have a text that, that puts Jesus and the father in the same position.

And it says that they dwell in unapproachable light. So what does it mean that they dwell in unapproachable light?

Well, it means that you cannot approach them. And then when you go through the book of John, it says that no one can come to the father unless they're drawn.

I mean, no one can come to the father unless they go through Jesus and no one can get to Jesus unless they go through the father. So how do we get to Jesus?

No, we can get to Jesus. No, we can get to the father and they dwell in unapproachable light. Well, that's what

Calvinism teaches. The teaching of Calvinism is through the gospel, right?

We're not saying that you don't have to believe. You have to believe, but how is it that you believe?

Well, and go ahead. It happens. Well, you know, you know, it's also, um, what, what it really does is it humbles man.

And so what it does is it, it elevates God and, and, and, and it lowers man.

We're, we're not on the same, you know, uh, you know, a lot of people, they, they take God and they bring them down to this, uh, surface understanding is, is to where that they build a

Jesus. And so they build this old, this Jesus in their own mind. And they think that they have some, uh, you know, they're helping

God out somehow. And so what this is a glorify, uh, glorify God's and, uh,

I mean, God and, and not us. And so, uh, for a lot of people out there, they have always been preached to, but they have never been taught.

And so going through each one of these really, um, I, I think that would be an absolute blessing, you know?

Yeah. I think, I think the reason my answer to this would be the reason why it's an important topic is if you think about it, it comes down to, to really who's doing the saving, because if, if God is the one saving us, then he's, he's doing that.

But if it's, if it ultimately comes down to me, the choice that I make

God, you know, this, the Billy, Billy Graham said, God did 99 % of the work and it's up to you to do the 1%.

That means you are the ultimate one who saves you. Yeah. If you just take it in that bare minimum, what you just said, that the word salvation means to be rescued my brain in here.

He's he, he, he works for a fire department, right? He, he is a fireman. He rescues people right now.

Imagine if someone's house was on fire and Braden's truck pulls up and the ambulance get there and the police get there and the house is on fire.

They know that there's five people in there who are smothering from smoke and being licked by the flames.

Right. And Braden gets on the amplifier, whatever you call it, the speaker.

And he says, uh, we have the fire truck here. We have the ambulance and the gurneys are out.

We need you to exit the house and get on the gurney. And we will put you in the ambulance and take you to the hospital.

No. What does Braden do? He kicks the door in, he risks his life and he goes in with them.

Baby hands to save a people, that's what salvation is.

It means to be rescued. And what we're saying is, is when God entered into time to this person of Jesus Christ, the second person of the

Trinity took on flesh, lived the life we could not live as a substitute and died the death that we should die, taking our punishment as a substitute, he rescued us.

And through the preaching of the gospel, we are given repentance and faith to believe.

Now, you know, the only thing I would disagree with you on there, I mean, based on his baby hands is when, when you said that he's a,

I think you meant to say he's a fire woman. How dare you, you guys bring up my small hands in this conversation.

We're talking about Calvinism. God predestined me to have these small hands. Okay. All glory to God.

And then you call me a fire woman. I'm about to become a fire

Karen here in a moment. Yeah, you do. Yeah. I mean, just for the record, like, you know, the guys were busting on you last year about the size of your hands.

And I, I didn't quite notice until you put your hand up against everyone else's hands and I'll admit my wife's like, you know, five to 110 pounds.

I think she's got a hand bigger than yours. I'm just saying, we don't have to talk about this anymore.

Yeah, it's fine. Hey, look, okay. Here, here, you know, someone is saying small hands for the glory of God.

So there you go. Well, we need to find that word in Latin and it needs to be like small hands for the glory of God.

That'd be, I would get a tattoo of that. That sounds everyone loves the firefighter when the firefighter, not so much when the police show up, that's a fact.

So a humble, humble clay here says if you're one, if you're a 1 % or you're going to hell, yep.

Just starting to think about now. So Mr. Tracy asked this. He said, so he'll draw me even if I don't understand

Calvinism. Absolutely. Yeah. It's a Calvinist to be a Christian, but if you want to be,

I don't want to say because if you don't like the world and the words these days, you have to be really careful what you say, so you don't have to be a

Calvinist to be a Christian. But if you want to be learned, I think you need to look into Calvinism.

Yeah. If you really want to know how it is that God saves us, I think reform theology and Calvinism has the answer.

It's like when I did the debate here for folks who are regulars on Apologetics Live, remember the debate

I did with the Filipino, RA Fuentes, when he wanted to debate the topic that Calvinism is useless and dangerous and the reality is over and over again.

I kept pointing out that when you look at what Calvinism is teaching, it's the gospel, so to say the gospel is dangerous, that's really what you're saying.

It's useless and dangerous. And if you haven't seen that debate, go back and watch it. It's really funny because I actually gave the first round of cross -examination.

I asked him the definitions of Calvinism and he's a Calvinist. Then I asked him in round two,

I used the labels and he misrepresented every one of them, so it was like, he doesn't understand what the topic is, but he wants to debate it.

Bad move. But so, oh, oh, here, Brayden, just for a level.

My hands are bigger than Brayden's. Hey, way to go having average size.

Okay. So, so we're not supposed to be boasting. Okay guys, stop boasting in the flesh.

You guys got big hands. Good on you. Great. Greg Moring Jr. Who spoke last year says about the conference from last year.

It was a hoot. Yeah. And so, yeah, it was. Uh, so, um,

Kathy is saying that she just saw you on truth be known podcast on YouTube.

I think she must be talking about Brandon Scalf. I would imagine. Yep. Unless truth be known, did something without me knowing maybe that happens.

You know, and that'd be good. So yeah, maybe he was just on iron shoppers.

I am a Chris Arnes. I was. Yeah. But it wasn't a YouTube. Oh, okay. Yeah. So, uh, a question from Melissa for you,

Jeff is will the conference be live streamed? We don't know for sure yet.

I'm trying to figure that out. Um, I am, if you ask my wife, like she'll tell you straight up.

I am not technologically technologically. How can you say the word savvy? Right.

Like you don't have to have her to do everything for me. No one has to ask her if I'm more than willing to let people know that.

You don't have a clue. Technology. Why I have no clue. Like, well, and I would also echo that we're really, the thing that worries us about, like worries me when

I think about the live stream is like Andrew already pointing out the whole point of what is really edifying in this conference is the in -person fellowship and you're going to miss out on that if it was live stream.

Big time. I'm going to tell you what? If you just come to the after parties, you're going to have the time of your life.

Listen, I'm an ex gangbanger. Okay. The most fun I've ever had was last year at the conference.

It was so much fun. Christians can kick it. You hanging out with a run of Christians.

We had an ex gangbanger, an ex Jehovah witness and an ex LDS member all around one table smoking a cigar together one night.

It was like, what's going on in the world? Like, this is the beginning of a joke. Yeah. So, all right.

So the thing is like, this is the one thing I talked about this earlier, the way you organize it.

I should mention this. The neat thing, Jeff, is at most conferences, it's like you're the speakers.

They line up and it's speaker, speaker, speaker, speaker, speaker, break for lunch, break, speaker, speaker, break for dinner, speaker, speaker.

I mean, it's just, everyone tries to pack it in. You'd have someone preach for an hour and an hour break, preach for an hour, hour break.

Yeah. So it was like, it was, there was, I mean, there was so much fellowship time. I mean, look, there was enough time that after every speaker got done, they could go over and do a podcast recording with both

Keith Foskey and Greg Moore. I mean, both of them, you know, so.

And again, we're out by six o 'clock. We go and eat a meal. We make, I mean, we have a blast.

I'm telling you, I will say let's not do Buffalo Wild Wings this year. That place was not in London, although it did get, it did get a good, uh, you know, video that, that Keith Foskey came up for folks who don't know

Keith Foskey. He does these, you know, these denominational gatherings. It's a, it's a humorous video. So we were sitting there and someone just turns, you know, what would a, what would a

Methodist, how would a Methodist order at, at, you know, Buffalo Wild Wings. And so he, he, we ended up coming up with,

I will admit, even though I'm dispensational and at the end of that video, if you haven't watched it, look up Keith Foskey, Buffalo Wild Wings, even though I'm the dispensationalist and, and I get, and the dispensational gets made fun of at the end.

Uh, I'm just saying it was hilarious, even if it was me that, uh, um, you know, so, uh, just real quick, uh,

I see you say that, uh, haps is backstage, but I don't see him. Oh, he must've clicked on the wrong link. Then he sent us a message saying he's in the backstage on the wrong link again.

All right. So, so let's see, uh, brother John, and I'm going to put both coats cause he corrected it, but he said, did you watch

Daniel Cola? I don't know who this is. So I'm probably mispronouncing the last name. Colin, uh, podcast regarding his, his teaching

Calvinism, a heresy. And then he, he afterwards correctly said, forgive me. Uh, Daniel can canola

Nando, whatever his name is. It did a bunch of podcasts regarding not

Calvinism, but rather a cessationism as heresy. Um, so no, I haven't seen it yet.

Um, we will, the plan is for next week. We do have, uh, an episode from that.

We're going to respond to of, from the remnant radio podcast, where they did an episode where they're basically arguing against what they called was bad cessationist arguments.

And we're going to evaluate some of those arguments and see whether they're bad or straw men. Just saying it's good to be accurate in what we say.

And we were guys are really good dudes. So, I mean, I think they're, they're running some things, but they are really good dudes.

I, so I had not known them at all, but I will say this. I'm going to say it next week when we, we review it.

I've been pleasantly surprised with their, their podcasts. I really enjoy the, the manner in which they deal with things.

And I, I'll tell you this. I find it very interesting because I think that a lot of the things that people would say toward, uh, those that believe in the continuation of gifts, they're really trying to be fair,

I think with people that disagree with them. And I liked that. And they, they try to go out of their way to, they try to go out of their way to not misrepresent.

Now, I think everyone, all of us are prone to that, but, um, so yeah.

So, uh, we're, you know, Braden, we were talking about this Slickster guy.

Uh, Mr. Honhold said this, maybe you could verify if this is true, but, but he says, you know, regarding this story about, you know,

Matt, Chris helping Matt with the car, he says, Matt has way overblown that story.

It gets more heroic each time he tells it. Now, would you, would you say, would you say that when

Matt tells stories over and over again, they, they, they kind of get bigger, like a fish that he caught?

Well, you know, like in how the Bible, how sometimes people are given names because of who they are and like the qualities they possess as a human, right.

God, who, however it worked with Matt's mom, like in the dad and his forefathers and getting that last name

Slick, it definitely is applying to Matt Slick, like that it's spot on.

He just, it changes every time with him. I'm just kidding. I dearly love

Matt. He's a, he's a great, he's a great brother. So humble, humble clay says

Calvinism equals guaranteed success. All right.

So we got another question for you guys and I'm going to, I got to go check the other questions we got a question. Can you explain, and Jeff, I think you use the term hyper -Calvinism.

So maybe we'll let you start with this. Can you explain hyper -Calvinism? Is hyper -Calvinism taught today in any churches?

Well, no churches that I know personally, but I, but I know of churches that have died out because of hyper -Calvinism, the refusal to, to obey the command to evangelize.

And I did believe that some hyper -Calvinist churches won't even partake in the Lord's supper. Right. And so, and so it's just, it's, it's a death blow to the gospel.

So in order for a hyper -Calvinist to evangelize to you, they would have to see some kind of fruit in your life that you're ready for the message.

It's, it's, it's kind of like in order for someone to plant a seed, they're going to go out there and fill the ground to see if the ground's ready.

Instead of toll it, uh, uh, fertilizing the soil, tooling it, whatever it is that you do with the farm, the little hand tools, right.

Instead of prepping the ground, they want the ground to prep itself before they, uh, give the gospel.

And it's a death blow. It's a death blow to the gospel. It's heresy. It should not be taught.

If you know someone that hoes to it, you should preach against it. And you, uh, that person is not our brother.

He is the mission, our sister. They are the mission field. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, I would just echo that.

It's, it's just, it is not, uh, one of the indicative things of being Christian is that the law of God is written on your heart and on your mind.

And if you're not willing to obey the words of Christ by going out and baptizing and, uh, teaching the making disciples of the nations and baptizing them, uh,

I question all the claims that you're making, um, if you don't have that law evident.

Um, so yeah. Yeah. I mean, so hyper Calvinism, let me, let me try to give it kind of a definition.

Um, hyper Calvinism would be in my mind, like where you, we have people that believe in complete determinism, right?

So I, I, my wife's Sunday school teacher, before we got married,

I, you know, he, he believed in a hyper Calvinism. I actually, I asked him, I said, let me ask you a question.

If I just pulled back and cold cocked you, did I do it? He said, Nope, God did that.

So, so he removed all human responsibility. Humans were just puppets in God's game.

So he's saying, like, I would say that, you know, again, I don't think Calvinism touches on the, the, the question of determinism, right?

I think reformed theology does the, uh, the confessions do Calvinism more so just focuses on soteriology.

So he would say that God is the puppet master forming our hands as, as as reformed folk, we would say that, that God predetermined all things that are going to happen in eternity pass.

And he's not actively causing things to happen, but he predetermined things to happen in eternity pass.

And through, uh, means these things take place, right?

Like you can just look at Joseph and his brothers and all that other stuff, all that took place because of the prophecy given to, to Abraham and a

Genesis chapter 15, that his descendants are going to be enslaved to a people.

And then we see how that takes place. So, so God tells him something's going to happen. It happens through Joseph's brothers selling him into slavery.

And at the end there, uh, Joseph recognizes God's hand on this. I think he does so because he understood the word, that prophecy given to Moses.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's what he would do is he removed all human responsibility.

And Calvinists don't believe that humans don't have a responsibility. It's just that they don't have an ability to save themselves.

Big difference there. Like, you know, when you start removing you, you, okay. Step out of the area of salvation.

That's why I asked him the question. If I punched him, did I do that? When you say that God made me do that, which is what he said, like,

I can't work with that, then you can't, you know, then God is the cause of everything, including sin, you know, now we, we would say

God is sovereign and he works through everything. So everything that happens does happen according to his will, but he doesn't remove human responsibility.

Right. It's, it's one of those, even in our, the confession I hold to the 1689, it calls it a, a doctrine that is a mystery.

And then it should be handled with the most prudence and care. It's one of those things that, and I would encourage anybody when we talk about sovereignty, if we talk about any doctrine, we should look at the character of Christ for example, in those things.

When you look at Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ did not have a sin nature, right? He is the most free in, in the definition of free will.

I think in humanity that we can see Jesus was the most free. He was not bound to do that, which we are inclined to do within our, our fallen, corrupt nature, but Jesus is the most free yet we can look all throughout the old

Testament that predicts and prophesies the life of Jesus Christ in such a way that we can also say that in the life of Jesus Christ, that's revealed in the new

Testament that he was also the most predetermined human. So not only was he the most free, he was also the most predetermined and it was there in Christ.

Like we as Christians shouldn't try to say, well, we, there's so many mysteries in God's word that we try to elevate one thing over the other and it, it hurts other parts of our theology.

Christ being fully God, fully man. How does that work exactly beyond me just saying that sentence?

Difficult to understand. God revealing himself through fallen man in the 66 books of the

Bible. How does that work? Very difficult for me to understand beyond that sentence. Right. But it's in God's word, a virgin conceiving of a virgin conceiving of a son that would die for me and rise again from the grave.

I can't conceive that, like, but that's what the Bible teaches. That's an eternal truth. And so we need to just rest our heads upon what

God has declared, which is that he is sovereign. He has decreed all things yet we are also responsible and we should be telling people to stop sinning against God.

These are the things we can't understand. Like a man with tiny hands. Um, can I say something real fast for the record?

Hold on. Just for a record, Mr. Tracy says Donald Trump has small hands. When they started, maybe, maybe, maybe

I'm royalty in that way. I, when they started, uh, uh, videoing him and saying he had small hands,

I was like, nice. The light's taken off of me right now. So drops out again.

I was just going to say, does that all the time? Hasn't had, but this is what he posts.

He's like, Hey, this is haps. Let me back on. Let me back up. He clicks the wrong link.

And then he, then he wants to say something and click some. So, okay. Well, while he's worrying, perhaps to give his brilliance that he had, uh,

Hey, Marlon Wilson's in the house, he's saying what's up fellas. So, okay.

I, Marlon says, Hey, we got, he's got a guy that wants to debate. Uh, I think originally this is going back a few years.

I think he wanted, the guy wanted to debate. Um, it was either debate that Jesus was just human or, or whatever.

Uh, I agree to it. The guy bails on, on Marlon, just like doesn't want it. So Marlon gets in another debate with a guy that wants to debate the deity of Christ asks him,

I'm up. Yeah. I'm up for it. And the guy bailed. So we're going to see, because Marlon now set up a two, two on two

Metzlik and I against two other guys on oneness, oneness, Pentecostalism.

So we'll see how that goes. I don't know. Oh, look, who's backstage. Oh, oh, there he is.

Stop. Let them speak. So you don't skip out again. Not so, so look at this one. You guys were talking, uh,

Michael Schultz got on and he says, he says this. All right. Pay close attention. You know, he's a doctor.

All right. If it's about my hands, I'm going to leave. He says modest purpose ad glorium.

Can I little hands for the glory of God? Can I show you my screen right now?

Can you show, can I show you my screen? Is there a way for me to broadcast my screen right now? I don't know if you can screen.

Yeah. Share screen. Uh, let's see.

He's trying to try for podcasting the, the, the blank silence. Bam. Look at this.

Hold on. Let me go ahead and accept it. Already had it up.

Yeah, yeah, I looked, I looked it up. You guys were talking.

So that's awesome. Did the same thing. Literally had it up right there. There you go.

All right. So, um, so Melissa says this, so, you know,

Jeffrey Rice, we're going to leave this one for you. This is going to be your task. And I know that Chris Hong holds put her up to this, but she says, um, can you please, can you guys please make

James White look cool? He needs to trade in the bill Cosby sweater for a hoodie.

We know that. I don't know if any of y 'all know this, but James White bought me one of those sweaters, a

Coogee sweater. Yeah. I know he has a bias. He can't say anything about it, but what

I know about Dr. White is you can't make him do anything. Right.

I like you're not making him do it. He, he does what he does. Hey, let me tell you something.

Let me tell you something. When I was down at Apologia a couple of years ago, and I partook of the

Lord's supper, he was fencing the table. They had four, four pastors up and I just happened to be in his line.

And as I'm coming up to him, he looks so serious. I was repenting all the way there, all the way there.

I was just repenting. I was like, he he's really fencing the table, you know, he was afraid he's going to read your mail.

Huh? He thought you'd be back in the Pentecostal church. Yeah. I thought you were going to go. Nope. So, you know,

I said that Chris Honholtz put Melissa up to it and like a good Democrat, he says, I most definitely did not in all caps, but then moments later, he says,

I did, however, pass her suggestion directly to Dr. White. I don't know.

I'm just going to say this too, like, like Dr. White, like, you know, I mean, so like, if I want to relate it, so, so my wife, my wife is a, has a doctorate degree.

She's like really, really smart when I talk to her and she speaks back, I feel really, really dumb.

You should. Right. No, no, no, I should. And so like, but, but having this relationship with my wife has, has really helped me with Dr.

White, because when I get around Dr. White and I start speaking, I'm like, man, I sound like a freak, you know, I sound like a barbarian and Dr.

White says like great Greek, right. Very intellectual. And so like, and so, so what you have to do when you get around Dr.

White, because he is so intellectual is you have to get past that.

And once you get past that, once you get past all the jewelry, which I wear a lot of jewelry and the sweaters, he is actually a really down to earth guy.

I mean, you can cut up with him, but you have to understand his cutting up is not the same as my cutting up.

It's different. It's, he's got this intellectual way of, of cutting up and, and it's really hard for me to understand sometimes, but I'm just happy.

I convinced him. He's a really good day. You're happy. What? I'm just happy. I convinced him out of Mormonism. Yeah. Yeah.

I don't, I don't know if it actually worked that way. That's what is on my resume. So it's obvious.

That's what he's been turning in. Uh, okay. So I think

I triggered Mr. Han holds, he says, how dare you compare me to a Democrat? I actually admit how ignorant

I am. Don't do that. That's good.

I'm definitely a barbarian. He's saying I can testify to how different his cutting can be.

Yeah. Can we, can we talk about Buddy the Elf? So, all right.

So go to openairtheology .com. If you have not gone yet, what in the world is wrong with you?

Go and check it out. If you can be there, this is going to be February 21st to the 24th, if you want the whole thing, but openairtheology .com

is the link where you can get the information, you can register it's, uh, I think it's on eventbrite, right, is the registration.

So, and, and, you know, I, I know it's early. Do you guys notice earlier that, uh, Jeffrey was holding up a

Bible? Well, hold that up again. Isn't, isn't that a nice looking

Bible? I wonder who, who found that for you, Jeff, who might've done that work?

Well, I don't know from what I heard, he has a championship belt on the way. He's the king of rebinding.

Oh, so we're going to have the king of all millennialism and the king of rebinding.

We're giving away, we're giving away a post -Tenorbrush Lux Bible rebond. We're giving away like three, three or four full commentary sets.

And we're giving away a, uh, a tobacco pipe from Donner's Oak. So the only way to get in that giveaway is you got to be there.

And I'm going to say this, if I can make an appeal, if you call yourself a Calvinist and you don't show up to the why

Calvinist conference, are you really a Calvinist, right? I mean, are you, are you really a

Calvinist? And we want Calvinettes to show up to Calvinist and Calvinette. Well, I mean, look, there are some people.

They may have a Jewish background and just need to win that, put their name in, you know, a couple of dozen times, but your wife just eliminated those.

She like filtered it. So I was only entered once last year. Well, that's how it is. You buy a ticket, you're in.

And, and, uh, rumor has it. You're actually going to have my Bible in time for the conference.

Listen, don't believe the rumors, you know, I'm from the trailer park and those echoes come.

So, so yeah, so we, we, I, for, for folks, for apologetics live, I know we started late, we,

I said, we'd do a shorter show. You guys were, we're usually start. You guys started half an hour earlier and I think, is this still streaming on your, your stream too,

Brandon? Okay. So I don't know how, how long do you guys usually go? We usually go about an hour.

Yeah. Okay. So, uh, we just, we really wanted to just cut it up a bit and talk about the conference, encourage you guys to check it out and go,

I, I, I really want to encourage everyone. This is a, you know,

I, I forget. I think Jeffrey, maybe it was you that I saw that posted this and said, if you're a

Calvinist, you want to attend the why Calvinist conference, and if you're not a Calvinist, you even more should.

Oh yeah. It's going to answer a lot of questions. Yeah. You come to this conference.

You're not going to leave wondering. I want, I wonder what they really believe. Yeah. And so let me answer this one.

This is, I think, I think a question toward me, Mr. Tracy B says, you don't have to call yourself a

Calvinist to believe in the sovereignty of God. And that's true. And so, you know,

I think though, what, what I, what I think a lot of the regulars here know that I don't refer to myself as a

Calvinist. Why? And the reason is basically I never know what someone means by Calvinist because here's the reality.

I don't know how many people have told me that they think Calvinism is wrong. That what

I do is I'll just ask them, I'll just ask them a question. Do you believe that when

Adam sinned, was his thinking affected by the curse of sin?

Oh yeah. Was his emotions affected by the curse of sin? Oh yeah. Was his will affected by the curse of sin?

They say yes. And then later they're going to deny total depravity, which is the discussion of whether the will is affected by sin.

So there's so many people that hate Calvinism that are actually Calvinists. And so I don't,

I personally don't use that label because I don't know what someone means by it and therefore when the label becomes a problem.

So I, if you want to know what I believe, I'm a rapportium. My last name is Rappaport. Raptureport.

But also I would say that, you know, like he said that he believes in the sovereignty of God and to that I say, amen, but also you would have to get in.

But what do you mean by the sovereignty of God? Yeah. You know, because if you get down to it, what

I mean by the sovereignty of God as a reformed Baptist could be very different than what someone else believes about the sovereignty of God.

Yeah. I mean, concerning the will of man, I mean, like Paul is speaking to Timothy in chapter two and he's urging him as the preacher to, to go out and speak to truth and to convert folks.

And so chapter two, beginning in verse 24 says this, and the Lord's slave, speaking about the minister, must not be quarrelsome, but kind to all.

I think Calvinists need to wake up and take a chill pill because we are trying to all right, able to teach patient when wronged with gentleness, correcting those who are in opposition.

If perhaps God may give them repentance, leading to the full knowledge of the truth, and right here, it's just now open up some eyes about that full knowledge.

Verse 26 and that they, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will, his will, the will of the devil.

If you're not in Christ, you are 100 % doing the will of the devil.

And that will take you back to Ephesians chapter two. You're following the course of this world. You're chasing after the desires of your mind.

Anything you can think of you're chasing after, hoping you can get it accomplished. So we got a lot of Melissa's who, who watched the show.

So Melissa Bond serving it for Jesus is saying, where did you say the conference is? So Tallahamma, Tallahamma, Tallahamma, Tennessee, that's, that's

Melissa. That's a little bit closer to California than New Jersey. So, so I live in Tallahamma, Tennessee.

So this is my stomping grounds. And, uh, and for those that don't know, so, so we, we have a reformed

Baptist church here, plants it. And I am a shaker and a mover.

Oh my gosh. I mean, it, it, it is what it is. A lot of people talk about, talk about it.

I be about it. And, and, and so, and so one of the things that, you know, when the church got planted, we didn't have our own building.

And, and, and then I was telling these guys, once we have our own building, I'm going to start having conferences.

So, and last year we had a conference at our church this year, when the, the, the, the pre -conference will be at our church and the, and we rented out a pretty good size space, uh, about five, 10 minutes away from the church.

Now, now it sounded almost like Haps was kind of mocking you there a bit, like saying that you weren't a mover and a shaker, but, but just for the record, did

Haps not like pick up his roots where he's been for so long in California and move out there to your stomping grounds to stomp with you?

That's right. Cause I told him to get down here. For the record.

He's saying you're not a mover and a shaker and you moved him. Just saying. Well, you know, all three, all three of us are best friends.

Oh, hey, Brayden had disappeared. And what's the response? Brayden just got raptured.

I started going up and then God said, no, you didn't have your rapture helmet on.

He said, you're not supposed to be here. Return. He's like, wait, do we grab the small handed one?

Uh, send him back. You know what? You know what? I re I remember when, um, when we were doing our podcast, uh, you know, a couple of years ago and, and Jeff, uh, he didn't have a building yet.

And, uh, we were, remember we were all praying so hard that he would get a building, I mean, like we, we were praying hard and then it was like, well, when we get the building, he goes,

I, I remember I, I came back from reform con and he goes, dude, when I get a building, I want to,

I want to have a conference and man, we prayed so hard and then like that, like that, he got a building and then like that, we're having conferences, you know?

I was like, yeah, that's how God rolls, man. Okay. Don't put that on the screen, Andrew.

I mean, look, here's the reality. This is the reason I love doing this show is, is the audience.

Okay. If you don't watch this live, you miss out on stuff. First off, we were talking about him, you know, being returned.

Chris Honhold says, no, not you. Humble Clay says, you know, okay.

And then the best one, the best one, the one that, you know, I know Brayden really wants up there.

Actually, oh, can

I make an announcement real fast? I'm looking for new friends. Hit me up.

Do they have to have large hands or do you want small handed friends? I would preferably small handed friends.

I'm looking for every one of us are misfits. Listen, I pastor a church. Um, I have dyslexic and I, I stutter.

Okay. No, no, really? Yeah Braden's got small hands and We don't know about him, yeah,

I'm just that that crazy wizard that lives off in the the woods, you know like in You know, what's that called?

What's that? Deliverance Get out of here, dude Melissa has a request for you

Brandon That Braden she says Braden you should hold up that huge Bible with those tiny hands

I Had one of those little little It's a handy -sized

Bible, okay, that's a really big Bible dude Mr.

Hon holds Hobbit hands Hobbit hands, that's what

I was referring to I'm taller than all you guys.

This is Taller I Remember when

I had a preach at your church, dude, and I called Jeff up. I know he's taller than both of us

You know So, um, so Melissa said said that it sounds like it'll be a great conference may

God be glorified. Yes I Don't I don't remember where the comment was, but she asked where you guys are from So we we just revealed that two of you are from So Tullahoma, Tennessee, I'm originally from Nashville, Tennessee, and I'm from SoCal From what?

SoCal, Southern, California. Oh, I'm sorry. That's that communist country. That's yes Yeah And then where are you from?

I Live in Hagerman, Idaho and pastor a church called

Valley Baptist Church here It's a small little town near Twin Falls and and you and I first met in at a temple opening

Time out you forget about all the times that I met you I met you while you know guns with Matt slick and then

I had to convince you Remember at the conference last year like I never met you before it's like yes, you did

I shot guns with you and like no I didn't like yes, you did wait And that I think that was at the time that Matt left his

ID behind. I think so Okay, good story field. No, it's a so we go shooting

Matt leaves his his you when you go it for the folks who don't go shooting You usually have to leave your driver's license or some

ID when you go on the range We go to leave and Matt left his ID there.

So the guy gave it to me and You know a friend that Matt and I have

This guy Nathan Nathan and I decided that we weren't gonna give it to Matt we were actually the plan was

I would give it to Nathan before I left and When Matt dropped me off at the airport after I get through TSA, I was gonna say hey

I just made it through TSA by the way I still have your driver's license, but Matt was telling the story about how he had

For folks who don't know the story. He asked this guy Bill McKeever to lunch Bill was in the area.

He said hey, let's go to lunch I'll buy you lunch and they go to lunch and Matt goes to take his wallet out and realizes

He didn't have a wallet with him and So he's telling that story and he's telling how that the next time he's like bill.

I owe you lunch. You're in town Let me buy you lunch and he went to buy him lunch the second time and realized

He didn't have a wallet and he reached for his wallet and and paused and Bill smiled and goes you don't have your wallet again

He knew at that moment. He was never gonna live that down. Yeah, and I'm looking now remember

I had the agreement We weren't gonna give the ID back and I just turned I said now Matt I mean people really believe you're that forgetful.

I said, oh by the way, and I just slipped his driver's license across the table And he's like, no you are not doing this on the air

So, yeah It was a good one. So you were shooting at that. I forgot. Yeah.

Yeah, it's been a hot second, but Nathan I just got off the phone with Nathan today.

He I I love I love my my Boise peeps. Yeah so Um Let's see.

Drew says drew is usually here, but he was traveling He just he just landed in in, you know from the plane.

He was on He said if you ever need to replace Andrew, let me know. I'm only an an hour and a half away

I'm contacting him right now You should

I'm telling you the fellowship is second to none like it is

You want to be there drew? so Bible care and share fellowship is saying who did

Matt shoot this beast? Yes Let's put this way terrible shot

Andrew lived so for the record I at that time I I hadn't I hadn't really shot you know,

I hadn't shot a rifle prior when we went for like 25 30 years and And Nathan who you know and Nathan I you know,

I I'm pretty sure Nathan was born with a Glock in his hand I could be wrong

Yeah And uh, so so we go shooting He he just looked at me.

He was like he he after I I Went through a couple rounds. He's like, okay

Military or police? Where were you trained? And so I was like well military is so he so I hadn't shot for a long time we pull in the target and I'm complaining because My shooting wouldn't have qualified for marksman.

I was just outside and he's like dude. I shoot all the time and I can't shoot So Matt really felt bad because Nate can out shoot

Matt any day Really upset Matt came walking over with his target to show me and he's like look at this and I pulled my target out and Matt just was like I hate you

That's awesome So, all right Well, I I'll give you guys any last minute things any encouragements you guys have for for the folks to want to come to the conference

I'll i'll start actually i'll i'll end with jeffrey. I'll start with haps What what was the question again

Happens just woke up What was that Yeah Anything you want to share with people especially about the day open up.

Yeah You know what? I I highly use backstage Yeah for people who feel that may be listening to apologetics live

And don't know open air theology. You should check out the open air theology podcast because you can get these three guys every week um

And we'd be clowning Yeah, and you'll need blood pressure medication after Watching a lot of our stuff.

We just argue with each other Yeah, i'm always right. So no, you're not

Yeah, no. No, I highly suggest people come because let me tell you this last conference or or this conference in february

Although I don't know who who this is, but I I love them. I love the comments even podcast.

Papa just woke up from his nap I guess that that that's from uh, uh, what's it called?

Uh, uh, Passing the torch. Oh, that's what they call me. Papa podcast All the guys out there all our young students

But yeah, why don't you why don't you talk about that real quick? What you're doing there? Oh, so, um, this is open air theology's, uh first ministry and it's called passing the torch

And it is a school of apologetics and discipleship for the next generation of Apologists pastors evangelists and teachers and it's really uh, we really want to uh, bring the the best teachers, um that Are seasoned in the faith that walk in humility um that uh have had uh that make disciples um and for older generation uh, really yoking up with the the young the um,

The the older ox, uh yoking up with the younger ox and and showing them how to plow the field

And um, it's a free school And we have andrew's one of the teachers. Uh, all of us here are uh teachers there but um also um anthony rogers, um

Also, uh, matt slick Claude ramsey. He's actually um, they just got done filming their second class tonight

But it's a free class and um, and if you want to grow in the knowledge of the lord, uh, we'd ask that you'd stop on by And where could they find it?

You can find it at passing the torch on um facebook on uh, youtube

Um, yeah, you don't have a website yet for it. We're we're building the website right now

You know, but we have uh every I mean It was just so amazing how the lord has just opened up every single door and every single

Teachers that I I reached out to said yes automatically And it's really just uh showing the next generation, you know, um, how to follow this pattern

The sound doctrine that's been given to us and um and and um, you know how to go make disciples, you know and how to exegete scripture and just a whole bunch church history and um, and we're really excited and um, but yeah, we just want to uh glorify god in doing this and look out for our

Younger brothers and sisters, you know Not to get carried away and all this nonsense uh youtube christianity, you know and and um and and that's uh was that's actually

Why mean, um, I remember when jeff and I first got started before we brought brayden on uh, we our whole purpose was to um, the reason why we started doing our show

Was to get people to go back to church because of 2020 and a lot of people had that they were mixed up in their theology about everything that was going on and And uh, we wanted to help them work that out

And um, and then uh open air theology was was born out of that and now out of open air theology, uh comes passing the torch so Yeah All right

Now tell people why they should come to the conference Uh, this is why you guys should come to the conference.

All right, i'm telling you I I have been to reform con I have been to g3 uh

But open air theology was like a family reunion I mean it really was

I mean I I got brothers uh That I met there that they're they're my brothers for life.

It was the best fellowship the best. Um, encouragement uh

That that I needed I I mean I I really really needed it and I wanted so many other people to get that And everybody that showed last time said the exact same thing

You know so, um And uh, you know, it's fun You know, yeah, especially the the encouragement you got on your sermon, uh, so You're so not reading the next one dude, no, no, no, no way dude

Uh Yeah, so I uh Just to just to give another shout out to this valley baptist church is hagenman

Idaho come worship god with us if you live in the area 11 a .m. On sundays would be a real blessing to see you there.

Uh hagerman valley baptist again Also have a youtube channel called reformed ex -mormon. Go check it out I have a facebook page where I make custom, uh smoking tobacco pipes, uh called donner's oak company

Go check those out as well Give it a follow share that around and uh, if you know somebody that or you if you yourself want a custom pipe

Reach out to me or if you know somebody that does reach out to me, it'll be a blessing I'm gonna hopefully sell some at the conference um, but uh

Man, it's such a blessing to be a part of open air theology. It's such a blessing to fellowship with these brothers Um, it's really exciting this conference last conference the from shadows to substance

I really love the topic that we're doing. I really love the topic that we're doing this time I'm sure i'm gonna love the topic next time.

This is something that you if you can make it you need to make it it's Um, it cannot be encouraged enough.

It's going to be such a blast the preaching uh again I am below all these brothers in this way the preaching is

Phenomenal. Oh, yeah tears running down my face. I Kid you not as jeff all of them.

They mentioned up and the fellowship it was it The fellowship should have been the icing on on the cake

But it was like the meat of the cake and the preaching was icing. It was it was fantastic.

Yeah. Yeah Yeah, and and melissa says the real reason you should go the masses should come to this conference to see

Shake his hands in person. I'll shake your hands and and It's always it's always insulting when you shake someone's hand they say well, wow, you do have small hands.

Yeah real funny And greg says I love these guys. I can't wait to spend eternity with them.

Yeah, it's gonna be fun. Yeah so Um All who attend be blessed mightily so Jeff gives gives your final encouragement well

I mean a lot of great things have been said and And I just want to point out like a lot of these conferences that you go to You know and listen,

I don't want to like crap on any of these conferences, right? I would say the the biggest difference outside of the

The way that we have it scheduled because there's plenty of fellowship the after parties that we have right thursday night

We're renting out a cigar shop where we can hang out and smoke friday night. We're renting out a restaurant

That has a bar area. We're going to be singing songs and and and and reading songs and singing hymns

Like like we're going to be getting together and and every time that we have like a setup shop at time

You're right like where we're eating or something We're going to be videoing our conversation

And a lot of a lot of these conferences they have like these q and a times But we're going to receive questions and during our hangout

We're going to talk we're going to answer the questions and fight and argue with each other

Yeah, okay, and you can be a part of this like like you can be a part of me In your face telling you you're wrong, right?

That's if you want to do that But for real a lot of these conferences you can go to and it's all big hitters right you have

James y you have bode bachem steve. Lawson, uh, josh bice like you have all these big names

What makes this one unique is we only? Have two or three Big names and the rest of the guys like myself are unknown and let me tell you something these unknown

Guys who who pastor churches and out in the country area that no one knows no one sees they don't have youtube channels

Let me tell you something these boys can preach they can get it these boys get down.

Yeah, and I and the main thing is If you go to a restaurant and you're only eating the same

Meal every time you're not experiencing the restaurant We live in such a time where we have this plethora of ministers, right

And at this conference we are introducing new speakers next year's conference

It's not going to be the same speakers the conference after that. It's not gonna be the same speaker We're trying to bring nobodies

Into the light to where y 'all can experience what mehaps and brayden experience all the time because these nobody preachers that That that you're probably not listening to we listen to weekly every day to weekly and so we just want to at this conference

Share with you the experience that we have weekly take, you know, like some of the names that were mentioned.

He talked about uh, uh claude Claude can all preach. Oh, man, if I just had half of the passion of claude

Kevin, hey michael schultz i'm talking about these boys can preach listen

I have some passion in me, right? Every one of these guys can preach me under my pulpit and I was

I was mentioning this this past week to uh, The this lady at my church. She's a member and she's talking about the conference

And and I was just talking about how I am not A jealous person listen if I was jealous,

I would be having everyone that comes to speak They would suck Right, they would suck so I would be getting this highlight reel, right?

Everybody's all they're ready there for jeff. I come out this screen. No I'm the least person you want to see these boys can preach

These boys know god and i'm telling you something if you're around them if you're around at this time the

The knowledge the glory the everything is going to be overflowing in such a way You might catch a little bit you might catch a little bit

It might cause you to want to go back at home and open your bible and read a little bit Right, we're going to be talking about why calvinism?

Why is it important? Why should you believe it? Why should your church adopt it? Listen, you're not going to want to miss this and if you're a calvinist and if you miss it

You just went to a four point in my view. Oh, you're not a five point Oh Have brain do that Sorry, sorry, can you see that that's four point?

Oh man No, I I mean look this conference. I said it after after last year's i've been saying it on this show

I I this is The layout of it the way it's scheduled You know, it is a fun conference.

Yeah, there's a lot of back and forth We all let jeff think he's right because he's posting it.

Yeah I mean, he's he's only got this lifetime to believe what he's believing. He's got the rest of eternity to be corrected

But we don't like to laugh don't come. Yeah. Yeah, there'll be a lot of laughing going on.

Oh, yeah Oh, you know you can meet these two you get the form about this and meet a real reform baptist

I've been saying this ever since I met these guys. I might as well say it again today You can pick your friends and you can pick your nose, but you cannot wipe your friends on your sleeve

That's what i'm stuck with. It's just that hillbilly Lingo, you know, that's an old proverb.

Okay I can't see it properly No, some people are listening to jeff right now i'm going and he's going to get up there and preach

I listen to every sunday. Yeah, i'm your pastor. You're going on church discipline

Oh No, this has been good. We actually went longer than we we said we jeff was like, all right, let's do it but just half an hour like Yeah, so yeah, we had fun.

I really appreciate you having us on man. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's it's good I'm looking forward to the conference.

It is so february. Uh, it's going to be the 21st to the 23rd Um, I encourage you guys 24th.

Sorry. So I encourage you guys to to come out tennessee check it out. Uh, Find a way to make it there just saying

I mean look you you may not need to go to the open air theology Conference to get to heaven, but why take the chance?

It gets you a front row seat I heard That's what you already know

When we get there, yeah I mean, I I mean, I i'm really hoping layton shows up.

That's going to be a lot of fun. I mean I hear he's a really nice guy. Actually. Yeah. Yeah, he he's an absolutely nice guy.

He's he's really sweet very graceful um, but because I mean like dred said

You know, he'll take he'll take you give him 10 minutes And he's going to turn that into three hours of material.

So that's why he'll have a lifetime of material from the conference listen, layton flowers is

Absolutely ecstatic that we're having this conference. He's happy that we're having this conference because this is going to give him years of material.

Yeah good I can't I can't promise that I won't maybe drop a a comment about You know, maybe

I can refer to him as you know, jacob lateness Well, the flowers fade but the word of god stands forever

Every speaker should find a way to drop that. It's like drop something in about a flower If I was to follow a flower it wouldn't just be a general one it would be a tulip all right, so The member, uh of striving for on youtube says do we need to register for the conference?

Yes. Yes. Yes Yeah, it's seating make sure you go to openairtheology .com

to register there on eventbrite and make sure you do that um And listen a lot like I don't want to talk about you know on the finances

But i've been catching a lot of crap because there's you know, like why are you charging for the conference? And it's like dude just this building is costing me twenty four hundred dollars

All right, I have to pay for everyone's place to sleep. Hey, here's the thing.

Here's the thing. Let me let me just the the the sad thing about christians Is they want everything for free especially from christians?

Yeah And and yet you look at muslims, you know what muslims do they hire other muslims and they pay more

They pay them more because it's like well i'm taking care of my own And the guys they pay do really good work because they figure hey i gotta do this good work because i'm taking care of my own

Christians, it's like oh, hey, you're a christian. I'll do i'll do shoddy work because you're just gonna forgive me

Oh, you're a christian. I'll pay you shot Shoddy amount because you're a christian and you'll forgive me, you know we got it wrong like it's sad that muslims understand it better, but you know

The the reality is that look there's several guys coming I I can at least speak for myself.

Jeff knows this. I don't ask for him to pay me anything All right. He asked me to come.

I love him You know, I I go anywhere Regardless with without a speaking fee, but if he asks me i'm coming

Right, even if it's going to cost me a lot of money to go Okay, because I know him. I know the conference he's going to do his theology is wrong, but he'll correct that in heaven and so But Other than that, but seriously, this is this is going to be a good conference

Whether you agree or disagree with calvinism I'll encourage you to to check it out if nothing more if you disagree with calvinism

It may at least sharpen your thinking of what it is calvinists believe Layton may learn that and and it may actually teach you that you're you've been a calvinist all along and just didn't know it

That's probably possible So, uh, I want to encourage you go to openairtheology .com

Uh, check that out. I know and for you guys, uh You know from open air theology, like I don't know if you saw the comments earlier

But we're the only I I must have like the only show where the listeners beg for commercials

That's just crazy. It's crazy and they're like, hey, where's where's the commercial? Well, the reality is you missed it because sleep, you know haps was sleeping during the show

Did you see that when haps just fell asleep? Look with my eyes wide open He just took off.

He just fell asleep there. He's getting raptured again He's getting you know, what it is what it is is he's struggling because he doesn't get a good night of sleep

Okay He he if if he would get himself a good night of sleep He would he wouldn't be dropping out like that.

So he should go to mypillow .com and use promo code To get himself a good night of sleep

So he so these two guys on the bottom of the screen would stop dropping out here you know and so So yeah, so we we're striving for uh podcasts are sponsored by my pillow just go to mypillow .com

Use promo code sfe. Uh, you can get their pillows mattress toppers robes slippers. They they got a whole gamut of things um

Nobody sponsors open air theology. I don't I don't know why but Ha ha Did you ask yeah, well no, but okay, but I didn't think we had to ask

I mean, you know what i'm saying? Like like you've heard the uh rowdy presbyterians we are the crazy baptists.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's true We ain't right. Okay Yeah, we need medication therapy because they don't know what we're gonna say

Melissa melissa is saying here melissa is saying haps needs more naps on his my pillow

I do I like that hap needs more naps And i'll probably get less sleep than both of these gentlemen

Yeah, yeah, because you won't stop talking. That's all you do Talk talk talk. I gotta go to sleep.

You gotta you gotta you gotta relax You gotta go You gotta meditate They can they can sleep we can sleep when we're dead.

That's right. That's right. So i'm dead with christ already Oh Got all theological.

I died with christ. Yeah He lives in me Well Since you since you're going that way we usually end with the gospel if it hasn't been presented throughout the show

So why don't you do that? Me yeah finished the message Yeah. Yeah, the message is is that uh, you and I everyone under the sun has sinned against god and god alone

And in order to have forgiveness god himself the one in whom we have sinned against became flesh

Died on a cross in a substitutionary penile substitutionary atonement way Paying the price of our sins fully and completely on the cross saying to tell us that he gave up his spirit

Was buried on the and on the third day he rose again according to scriptures If we place our faith in him if we are drawn if we are called and we place our faith in him

Um, we have been crucified with him and it's no longer you and I who live but christ who lives in us and that is

The call to have faith in the gospel And and we're saved by grace after all we could do right?

Absolutely not Just checking to see if he's still a mormon Hey, if righteousness comes through the works of the law then christ died

All right, well we appreciate everyone and uh, you know I want to encourage you guys to check out the conference and and so Jeff, you know melissa's saying that um

She says her mother is her sponsor Pay pays for uh her podcast each month.

So have you asked your mom? You know try try that why are you yeah, well my mom and dad passed

So my brother's passed and my my sister She ain't right. So well

You know for for you know haps Especially for haps because he's going to church with you now and doing the podcast

There should be a warning to you, you know, everyone around him dies early Dude I should have went to idaho

Up here I'm not in fear of my life with all these tornadoes. They're real.

Well, you've seen all my weapons. They are real I just I just I just purchased a uh, a 10 foot

Okay, a 10 foot tall spear today All right, so grab it dude. It's behind you right now.

I know I'm gonna end on this This is gonna be the you know, if you if you if you want to know why you should be at the conference

Especially mr. Hon holds. He says Great stuff guys praying you have a blessed conference and jeff.

I'm loving my big foot mug Okay Big foot's not real

And aliens are demons Thank you We're having

Big foot throw down one of the nights to Yeah Andrew I can't believe you just Don't believe in evolution

It has nothing to do with evolution Dude we didn't even know there was

He's called the missing link for a reason Not called the missing link. That's Called that by a like by true christian enthusiast if you're a christian

You should believe in bigfoot because of the evidence of two or three witnesses There's thousands of eyewitnesses

And if you do not believe like you're denying scripture If you want to hear the rest of this debate and watch jeff have to recognize that he's wrong

Uh, you got to be at the open theology conference just saying, you know how

I get okay Okay It's not that it's not that you believe in bigfoot. It's that bigfoot believes in you

All right, and I don't believe like in the same sense as I trust in bigfoot

Do you believe in the resurrection of jesus christ based on the evidence of scripture and you so you believe in alien abduction, right?

No, I think aliens are demons That's not the witness

I believe Don't get don't deny someone's uh, uh

I wouldn't deny someone's if it's based on two or three witnesses We got way more than that that have been that been on alien ships

Man I wish I could see You just echoed chris if you don't go you're not a calvinist i'm not gonna say it

Yeah, yeah, don't get don't get andrew started on aliens. He'll get all chuck missler on us and then it'll just turn into this

Oh, yeah, I forgot. He's a dispensationalist How are you a dispensationalist and you don't believe in bigfoot,

I know because I believe in the bible not You know to the evidence of two or three witnesses if I killed someone and y 'all three saw me do it

They would put me in prison on the on y 'all's testimony See what you did

Another half hour on bigfoot conversations You got you got jeff all up to the conference

You got to come to the conference and chris honhold says he can't because he's got to work He just retired.

Listen to me. What's your job? the reality Really the real reason chris isn't going to be there is because he's going to stay home and watch buddy the elf

We we all know it. Oh, so just saying. All right with that folks Uh, we want to encourage you to check out open air theology podcast.

Check out open. We do have an episode on bigfoot I think it's not real

Yeah, obviously Braden you needed some help on that con on that conversation You you you read the room correctly, thank you.

It's okay that you know, right and you've never been more of a dispensationalist until now It's often it's truth that's in the minority