Live with Andrew Rappaport about Open Air Theology conference "Why Calvinism?"

Proverbs, Apologetics Live, and the Opening Banter

Verse 3, Proverbs 8, 23, Proverbs 22, 28, Proverbs 23, 10, and Ecclesiastes 1, 10. Should I go on for more? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

This is Apologetics Live. To answer your questions, your host from Striving for Eternity Ministries, Andrew Rappaport.

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I always love that one. That's a great theological response when you can't respond biblically to a claim you made.

Just go. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I love that.

Well, welcome to Apologetics Live. I'm your host, Andrew Rappaport, here to answer your most challenging Bible questions. We can answer any question you have about God and the Bible. If you doubt me, well, you just go to Apologetics Live, click on the StreamYard icon, join us, give us your most challenging question.

And remember, if I say I don't know, that's a perfectly good answer. Let me bring some folks in. We're going to do a shorter episode tonight. I'm going to bring in the man, the myth, the legend himself, Mr. Jeffrey Rice.

Yo, yo, yo. We got his, I don't know, are these the three musketeers? We got Haps Addison and then Patterson.

We like to call ourselves Open Air Theology.

Yeah, well, and so you guys are from the Open Air Theology podcast and you guys have a conference coming up. Hmm. That's what we're here to talk about tonight. So we're going to have a little bit of a shorter show tonight, folks, but we want to encourage you to go to check out OpenAirTheology .com.

Why Calvinism and the Open Air Theology Conference

And on there, I'm just going to present real quick. I just want to share a screen to show you what it is that we're going to be doing over there. And this, even though this is old information, by the way, just for the record, but because the schedule changed.

But why Calvinism? It's going to be in Tennessee if you're in the area. But just to go down and look at some of the things we're going to talk about tonight, we're going to talk about the pre-conference.

There's a pre-conference debate on the dangers of full preterism. Now, just for the record, that's what Jeffrey Rice holds to. I just figured I'd see the reaction. I hope to that it's dangerous. I thought you really I thought you were a big fan of that.

No? Okay.

I am a preterist just like everyone else is.

So this conference is going to be February 21st with the pre-conference starting at 6 to 8 .30. This part has changed. It's moved around. For some reason, Jeff didn't want to be first, so he threw me to the dogs, and now I'm the first talk.

There's an advantage to that, Haps. Don't laugh because I get to then relax and enjoy the conference. I get it done. The advantage of going first is anything bad that I say, no one remembers. If I say something brilliant, which, well, that won't happen, but if I do say something brilliant, all the other speakers will refer to it again so that everyone will remember it.

See, that's the advantage of going first. So the real thing is I just get to enjoy everything. Let's look at the topics. We got and this has changed because you guys have added some speakers, but Jeff, you're going to be talking on the Calvinism of Jesus?

Correct, which will be dealing with regeneration preceding faith.

So are you saying that Jesus came up with that? It wasn't from Calvin? I thought Calvin came up with that.

No, I truly believe that if Jesus was walking the earth today, you'd have people like Layton Flowers saying, you Calvinist. That's the doctrine of the devil. Isn't he going to be at the conference? He's supposed to be coming to support Jason Brita.

Oh, is that why he's coming? Yes. He actually wanted us to give him five minutes after each speaker to rebut us.

So is he coming to the whole conference or is he just coming for the debate? I'm not sure.

I'm only expecting him Saturday, but I would love it if he sat right in the front row during your message.

It would be good. I think it would be really good. I mean, I'm just picturing Layton Flowers, James White, Matt Slick, and myself getting together. Oh, my gosh.

Well, the one good thing for Layton Flowers is that this conference is going to give him like two or three years of material.

Oh, folks who don't know. In case there's someone that doesn't know Layton Flowers. So Layton Flowers, he claims he used to be a Calvinist, and his big thing is to speak against Calvinism, which every Calvinist that I know of tells Layton that he's misrepresenting Calvinism.

That should be a warning sign. If everyone who holds the position tells you you're misrepresenting it, that's not good, right? That's right. So if he's planning to be there, that would be great, but he's a really nice guy.

That's the thing. He's a really nice guy. So I'm going to be talking on the history of Calvinism, basically going through this may be a shocker, but Calvinism didn't start with Calvin. And I'm just going to say that, you know, we may have a different view of Jacob Arminius.

Was he actually a Calvinist or not? Just saying. We could discuss it. R .C. Sproul's done a lot of work in that area. It's kind of interesting. But Jeff's like shaking his head like, oh, no.

You know, I just think it depends on what you would call a Calvinist, right? If you're talking about all five points of the tulip, then. Well, see, that's the whole point. There was no tulip. Yeah, I know.

I know. That's what I'm saying. Like if you label it in that sense, then I would say no. But I would think that if you're praying to God and you're asking God to save your neighbor, your mom, your dad, whatever it may be, your child, and you're asking God to grant them salvation to save them, then you're a Calvinist whether you like it or not.

Let me ask you a question. I'll ask this of Haps.

I know you like to evangelize. Do you know anyone that prays like an Arminian? Yeah. They pray for people to get saved like an Arminian? Yeah. Really? Yeah. Yeah. I haven't met anyone that prays like an Arminian.

Well, you ain't heard Haps pray. I'm going to pray for you later, dude. Everyone prays for God to save people. I had someone that once said to me that I pray like a Calvinist and I preach the gospel like an Arminian.

I said, well, I'm praying that God would change their hearts, but I don't know if they're one of the elect, so I'm going to preach to them that they need to repent. Yeah.

Is there a different gospel that's being preached? I mean, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures or buried on the third day and rose again according to the Scriptures. I mean, is there a different gospel?

Well, according to Paul in Galatians, yes.

It's a false gospel. It's not really a gospel.

He calls it a cursed one, but yeah, there is. So let's see. Okay, so let's go through some of these guys. You got Claude Ramsey. Oh, yeah. Brandon, I'm going to let you. Does this guy, for people that don't know who he is, does he preach with any kind of compassion?

Look, I'm starting to hydrate my body right now because I know that I will be crying during his message. Oh, yeah, dude. So I'm getting ready for that day right now. He would out-preach. When I say out-preach, I mean bring passion to preaching Christ crucified in such a way that it would put every preacher in the pew of his church.

No one can bring the amount of passion that Claude does. It's amazing. And last year, he sung a part of a hymn in his message. I really hope I can see that again because I was bawling as he did that. Oh, yeah, dude.

But, Brayden, you cried during every message. I did. You cried during every message. Of course he had to bring that up.

Every time I looked at you, you was crying. I was like, man, he's tall. We had to counsel you for a month afterwards.

He was not crying during my message. He was sleeping.

No, I was crying during yours too, man. Just to hear that salvation is in Christ and that he saves a wretch like me, man. It'll get me every time.

So on the Calvinism Luther, you guys brought in Doug Wilson wannabe? Yeah, the Harvard Freight. Harvard Freight Wilson. Harvard Freight version? None other than Keith Kowalski. If folks don't know who Keith is, well, you'll just have to go look him up to figure out why we say that.

He was there last year just doing podcast interviews. Now you got him preaching.

I didn't know him too well last year. I just knew him as the funny guy on the internet. My wife really enjoyed him, and he contacted me about getting a booth. And then over the year, we got to get to know one another.

And he mentioned about, you know, if we were to ever do something on Calvinism, he wanted to do something on Luther, and it just kind of fell into place.

And Calvin, the Calvinism of Luther?

Luther was a Calvinist, just like Jesus. But he was a Lutheran. All right. Well, I mean, there was inconsistent. I mean, look in the mirror. Come on.

Well, right now I'm looking in the screen and seeing you, so I guess you're right. Brandon, what are you going to be talking about here? The Calvinism, the Old Testament to the new covenant?

Yes, I'm really going to be focusing on God's sovereignty that has always been plan A, that he brought about the Christ through a progressive revealing of covenants to the ethnic people of Israel to bring about the Christ, the seed of Abraham of the tribe of Judah through just predestination, sovereignty.

And ultimately that is what enacted the new covenant according to Hebrews chapter eight. And that is the covenant where sins are forgiven and iniquities are remembered no more. And it's just like how in the Old Testament, you were a child of Abraham.

You are part of the old covenants through being born into the covenant. Likewise, you must be born again to enter into the new covenant. And it is salvific atonement meant just for the members of that covenant and that covenant alone.

And then Brandon Scalf is going to be preaching. Now, if folks have not heard Brandon preach, Brandon, he's got the Cruciform Conference that he does. I've been privileged to hear him preach on multiple occasions, not just at his conference, but also at his own church.

I had the privilege of being in his church and listening to him preach.

Would you say he's a good preacher? What do you say, perhaps? Oh yeah, Scalf, you know, C-H Scalf, man. Let me tell you that he can preach. He is one of my, actually one of my favorite preachers. You know, like he really, really gets into it.

And I love him as a brother too, so.

And so it makes sense that he's preaching on the preaching of Calvinism. Yeah. We got the dark horse. And I say this because you got Kevin Hay. And the reason I say he's the dark horse, if anyone hasn't watched the Q &A from last year's conference, I'd encourage you to go back because these guys, these guys all thought at this conference, I was the only dispensational guy on the page.

And all of a sudden they found out, wait, they had a closet dispensationalist. He was smart and just kept it quiet. It was like, you just watch that Q &A folks, go back to open air theology conference from last year, watch the Q &A.

And when they went all of a sudden, Kevin reveals he's a dispensationalist. Everyone's like, what?

Didn't we end the Q &A right there too, Jeff?

I laughed because I knew it the whole time.

I mean, cause we were making fun of, well, actually we were making fun of Greg, the Presbyterian. And then when Greg found out that Andrew was a Presbyterian.

This started the very first night and folks, I'll give you the real reason to attend this conference. Cause you can watch the videos later. I granted it's the fellowship. Yeah, definitely. I Jeff, I've said this to you.

I'm not saying anything I haven't said to your face, but the way this conference has been organized is outstanding. I think I've loved the structure of this conference more than any other conference I've been to.

It's a little bit more days. Okay. Because you got the 20, the 22nd, the 23rd, the 24th. So it's three days, but it ends by six, five, six o 'clock. You go out to dinner every night is like a theology throw down.

Oh yeah. The gloves are off. We actually went to Buffalo Wild Wings. There was, I think a hurricane warning or tornado warning. We couldn't leave there. We were trapped inside and you guys were ripping on me for being a dispensationalist.

Then all of a sudden you all decided to rip on Greg for being a, you know, Presbyterian. He was the only Presbyterian there. I was at dinner. I was the only dispensationalist. And all of a sudden Greg like realizes everyone's piling up on him.

He goes, what are you digging on me for? He's a dispensationalist. And you all just turn your guns right back to me. Greg and I were sitting right next to each other. It just goes to show, you know, look you get two people against everyone else.

You would think that they would bond together to fight everyone. No, Greg just says, Hey, throw him under the bus.

And Greg's going to be the host this year. So he'll be introducing everyone. Like he's going to play a big part in it just to show that I love my Presbyterian brothers. Right. I mean, I really think they need to keep reforming, but you know, it is what it is.

Wrath, Love, and the Calvinism of Paul

Yeah. Okay. So, so we got Kevin Hay speaking on the wrath of God. Yeah. And then we had a speaker come last year, digging you out. You had a spot to fill. You had a guy you, you didn't know that well just preached like great.

Yeah. Just the, the, the surprise of the conference last year. And he's going to preach about Calvinism and the love of God. Interesting topic, Jeff. Why, why that one would, you know, I thought Calvinists don't believe in that God loves.

Well, God so loved the world that he gave his one and only son. Yeah. His only begotten son. Right. So, so how can we say that, that God does not love. Right. And you know, that word for world there, it's not.

He's not saying that God just loves the, the Jews on the edge of the Mediterranean sea, but God so loved the whole world so that every ethnic group, red, yellow, black, or white. Whoever believes in him will not perish, but have eternal life.

You see, there's the, the true two truths that run through the Bible and a true Calvinist will hope to these two things. And it is that God is sovereign and that, and that man is called to repent and believe.

Now the deal is, is how can a man repent and believe if God is sovereign? And that's why the conference is coming up and called why Calvinism, why it's important to have this understanding. You got to have both understandings.

You cannot just, if you ride one side of the fence, you're a hyper Calvinist. And if you ride the other side of the fence, you're an Armenian or a pre, a provisionist. Right. So yeah. Calvinist believes in both that John three and excuse me, John six 37 for all that the father gives me, their sovereignty will come.

There's a, so we will, I actually came to Christ, right? So in my experience, if you ask me my testimony, I'm going to give you the testimony of what I experienced. And I experienced myself coming to Christ.

When I got into the word of God, I understand why it is I came to Christ.

And that's why I say in my book, what do we believe? I say experientially we chose Christ, but theologically God chose us. Yep. Right. And that's the differences. And I think the big problem a lot of people have is they're stuck in their experience and not the theology.

Who's this next guy preaching on the Calvinism of Paul, Brenda D who is this guy? James, what white who's he? I don't know.

He's a new guy. I think, I think,.

I think he was a guy that had Brandon stumbling last year.

Who's this? Who's Brandon? Who do you keep calling Brandon?

Sorry. He had, I think he had you stumbling there as, as he came in as an elder.

Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Last.

So last year elder Lucas, I converted him out of Mormonism and now he's known as James white, which is pretty exciting. So it could be said I converted James white to Christianity.

Pull them right out of Mormonism. So you have a, you have a background in Mormonism and you, you defend Christianity against Mormons all the time, but James white came in acting as a Mormon elder. Yeah.

And he kind of had you in pretzel pretzel mode there, I think for a little bit, but you know, I think it just had to be with your, your busy with you know, the fact that you were having James white challenging you.

I mean, look, no, who wants to debate James white anyway?

Right. That's a fact. I don't, I feel bad for Jason. This debate that we're going to talk about here in a second, but man, you know, it was a, it was really fun to sit there on a stage talking about trying to convince James white of the gospel.

I was like, dude, this is weird. This is really weird, but he did a good job playing the part. It was, it was lots of fun. Yeah.

So the next day with these ones you have, you have Sam Waldron on the will of man in Calvinism. My homie. He's your homie. I don't know. I'm the person.

Right. And he's always, he's always cool.

He's always quoting him. He said, well, Sam Waldron said, well, Sam Waldron said,.

Is he going to be sitting there and like stars? Yes.

Yes. Sign my Bible. Sign my kid's Bible. Yes.

So the next, the next guy we got, we got, we got this heretic preaching on Calvinism and evangelism. What were you, what were you thinking? Having a haps at. Who's this haps Addison guy?

I mean, you gotta put them in somewhere, right? I mean,.

Well, you know, this, this is what Melissa says. Melissa says this, he looks like ZZ top.

I'm shooting for it, man. I want it down on my belly.

We got to live long enough. So, so haps, what's your message going to be on and will it be longer than 20 minutes?

And are you going to let, are you going to let Andrew see your, uh,.

No, no, I'm not going to let him see it this time.

Maybe you should let me see it like this week. Just saying,.

Let me tell you what, what, what happened to everybody this real fast. So me, Braden and, uh, our, our, our, our big brother right here, we, uh, we had an Airbnb and, uh, you know, you know, everybody's just kicking in and Andrew's sitting on the couch.

And, uh, I go, Hey, Angie, would you mind like, you know, checking out my, uh, you know, my sermon? He goes, yeah, sure. And I give him my iPad and he raises through it and he goes, um, how long do you plan on preaching for?

And I go, why? He goes, did you use a word counter? I go, what are you talking about? And he goes, you didn't use a word counter. You know, how many words is this? And I'm like, what are you talking about, dude?

He goes, is there going to be filler? And I, you know, for a second, I didn't know what filler was. I go, yes, of course. Yeah. Of course. And then he gets up and he hands me back and he goes, what? You only plan on preaching for like 20 minutes.

And I go, Andrew, don't do that to me, dude. And don't, he just got this big smile on his face and he walks right to the bedroom laughing as he shuts the door behind him. And I'm freaking out.

I just wanted the rest of the message.

I'm not good at, at writing it down, you know?

How long did it take you to preach through what you had in your notes? 35 minutes. 35 minutes. No, no. That was the filler.

Six and a half minutes. No, you know what? I'm really excited about this topic right here because this, this is I mean, I mean the name of the conference is why Calvinism, you know? So, so really my appeal is to those that aren't Calvinist, but a reminder to Calvinist, you know, that it, we don't have to talk anybody into anything, you know, what we need to do to stay faithful and preach the gospel, because this is why the gospel was preached even to those that are dead.

So we just need to bring our shovel, you know? And that's, that's, that's it right there. You know?

I would have, I would have taken this topic if it was offered to me, but it was already taken. Thanks.

Robbed. Robbed. I mean, if y 'all want to switch, y 'all can switch. No, no, no.

Yeah. Let's make him switch last minute.

Jeremy Terry. So Jamie Terry had to call out.

And so you replaced him with seriously on Calvinism in the gospel and you replaced him with some slickster, some guy.

I've been telling him it was a bad idea.

Dude, I will jack you up, son. You of all people.

You, you're, you're friends with the slickster.

I was the one that suggested him. I actually called Matt and we were chatting and he was like, Hey, it was actually kind of funny. I was like, yeah, you should come to this Calvinism conference. He was like, yeah, you know, I can see if I can do that.

But you know, if only you knew somebody that has dedicated their whole life to Calvinism. And if you had invited him to preach, I bet he would have said yes. And I was like, Oh, I feel like a dirt bag right now.

I felt like a big dirt bag. And so I called him Jeff and asked, I was like, Hey, you remember how Jamie isn't preaching anymore? Which Jamie's a wonderful preacher. And I was like, Hey, I think I got a suggestion.

Matt Slick. I think he would love to come.

Dude, the slickster man, dude. I was so, dude, I reached out to Michael Schultz right away. You know, he's the Dean, Dr. Schultz of Forge Theological Seminary and I told him who we got and he was just so taken back because that's what got him started off in school.

He started off in, you know, just like with me too. You know, I started off at CARM when I did all those certificates, all of them, you know, but yeah, it's just really neat how God brings it back full circle, you know?

Yeah. You know, when I was at the, on the board of CARM, I, I used to tell people when I'd speak, I'd say, I'd say CARM has trained more pastors than any seminary because every single seminary student went to CARM for their research.

So Matt, Matt has actually had a greater influence. I would argue, you know, when you look at how many, how many people CARM has influenced of seminary of pastors than any one seminary, because everyone went there.

I put, I put so many people through his, his his school through that, you know, that was in my program over the years. And I'm talking years and years of putting people through it. And it was just, it was just so helpful.

But I do have to say, Andrew, you know this because you and I are in the same boat. When it comes to Matt, we know him in person. So like Jeff and Haps were like, Oh man, we're so excited. The guy from CARM Matt is going to be here.

I'm like, dude, just wait.

They don't know what they're in for. You know? And, and okay. So someone's correcting me because I said Matt has trained, you know, more seminary, more pastors than anyone seminary. So, um, J three 16 ministry says probably not more than Rick Warren.

You got to give credit where credit's due. Yeah.

More, more pastors than there are pastors. He trained the apostles.

He probably trained Jesus. Also spent three and a half years with Rick Warren.

He'd probably argue that Jesus came to him for, you know, for three and a half years for discipleship before he started working with the disciples. So what's, what's the debate topic, the closing debate with James White?

What's that the topic going to be?

Um, did I, I don't know if I wrote it down. Let me see.

It's the doctrine of limited atonement, biblical and important. Yeah. Right. That's it.

And I, you know, I actually found this interesting because either way it's, it, it is worded it's, you know, cause if he is atonement,.

Biblical and important, it's basically going to be speaking about limited atonement. Like that's, it's kind of like a Puritan version of limited as of it.

But I think, I think the good part about how this is worded is that then you can now bring into it a little bit more stuff with penile substitutionary atonement and, and some of the, the other limbs that are attached to limited atonement.

Right. So I think if you had said limited atonement, it would have narrowed in the debate more. Whereas this is, is going to go more broad and it's reform doctrine, which I think is going to be really, really good.

I'm very excited for that.

Okay. Just to go back to a previous topic though, you mentioned people that know Matt Slick personally. Yeah. There's an individual who Matt Slick was coming through town. Uh, his car broke down and there's a guy that helped him out and Matt speaks highly of him.

And this is what Mr. Honhold says about Matt. Matt's a handful, just saying. I'm telling you, everybody that knows him. We got someone that speaking of Rick Warren says, Warren be taking people's credit cards.

Good point there. So this is kind of a long, someone says, if I'm saved because of the, of the, the gospel is irresistible to me, then how is this topic important?

Who wants to tackle that one? Well, if it's in God's word, it's important by the very fact that it is God who's speaking. And I think that's the, that's where I would start. I'll pass it to one of these brothers, but that's the where I would say is if God teaches it, it's very important right then and there.

Yeah. I mean, anything that's in his word is important and not, and I would just echo some things. Like I know that the word Biblicist is catching a lot of heat these days. Right. And I would say that if you're a Baptist, by definition you are, and you're not like the churches of Christ, who would say something like no creed, but Christ, which is a creed, but it's just the whole idea that if the Bible doesn't say it, then it better teach it.

If it doesn't do either one of them, then what are we doing? Right. And the problem is, is we have a lot of people out here reading their Bibles and yet they're missing the rich teaching of Calvinism.

Right. And so what we want to do is it's kind of like, go back to John, John, I just mentioned earlier, John 6, 37, all that the father gives me will come. People read over that and it's kind of like, well, what are you doing?

John 17, three says the same thing or no, John 17, two says the same thing and that goes the same thing. All that the father gives me and they read that and they just, they don't understand what it is that they're reading.

And so we want to, to not only show them exactly what they're missing, but actually how it's applied and how it's good for the church. Hyper-Calvinism, bad for the church. Biblical Calvinism, good for the church.

Which I think, I think you even said it earlier is that all that the father gives me will come to me. Right? So part of the irresistible grace is the fact that we are coming to a knowledge of God that is a one that one would not ever reject.

We're going to come to it. And it's also, I recently just gave a message somewhat dealing with this. If, if God was a, was a fisherman, every time he cast his hook out into the sea, he gets the fish that he wants.

He's not a failed fisherman. He's not a 50 catch rate fisherman. When the father draws you, you will come to him because he's effectually doing it. He doesn't have a failed work in his hand. He, he, he pulls you in, he draws you in.

And it just so happens that you do so because you want to, because you want to come to be a part of that fisherman's net.

Yeah. I mean, when you look at the text, so you have a text that puts Jesus and the father in the same position. And it says that they dwell in unapproachable life. So what does it mean that they dwell in unapproachable life?

Well, it means that you cannot approach them. And then when you go through the book of John, it says that no one can come to the father unless they're drawn. I mean, no one can come to the father unless they go through Jesus and no one can get to Jesus unless they go through the father.

So how do we get to Jesus? No one can get to Jesus. No one can get to the father and they dwell in unapproachable light. Well, that's what Calvinism teaches. The teaching of Calvinism is through the gospel, right?

We're not saying that you don't have to believe you have to believe, but how is it that you believe?

Well, go ahead. It happens. Well, you know, you know, it's also, um, what, what it really does is it humbles man. And so what it does is it, it elevates God and, and, and it lowers man. We're not on the same, you know, uh, you know, a lot of people, they, they take God and they bring them down to this, uh, surface understanding is, is to where they build a Jesus.

And so they build this old, this Jesus in their own mind. And they think that they have some, uh, you know, they're helping God out somehow. And so what this is a glorified, a glorified God's and, uh, I mean, God and, and not us.

And so, uh, for a lot of people out there, they have always been preached to, but they have never been taught. And so going through each one of these really, um, I think that would be an absolute blessing, you know?

Yeah. I think, I think the reason my answer to this would be the reason why it's an important topic is if you think about it, it comes down to, to really who's doing the saving. Because if, if God is the one saving us, then he's, he's doing that.

But if it's, if it ultimately comes down to me, like the choice that I make God, you know, this, the Billy, Billy Graham said, God did 99 of the work. And it's up to you to do the 1%. That means you are the ultimate one who saves you.

If you just take it in that bare minimum, what you just said that the word salvation means to be rescued. My Brayden here, he's, he, he, he works for a fire department, right? He, he is a fireman. He rescues people, right?

Now imagine if someone's house was on fire and Brayden's truck pulls up and the ambulance get there and the police get there and the house is on fire. They know that there's five people in there who are smothering from smoke and being licked by the flames, right?

And Brayden gets on the amplifier, whatever you call it, uh, the speaker. And he says, uh, we have the fire truck here. We have the ambulance and the gurneys are out. We need you to exit the house and get on the gurney and we will put you in the ambulance and take you to the hospital.

No, what does Brayden do? He kicks the door in, he risks his life and he goes in with them baby hands to save a people, little babies, because that's what salvation is. It means to be rescued. And what we're saying is, is when God entered into time through this person of Jesus Christ, the second person of the Trinity took on flesh, lived the life we could not live as a substitute and died the death that we should die, taking our punishment as a substitute.

He rescued us and through the preaching of the gospel, we are given repentance and faith to believe.

Now, you know, the only thing I would disagree with you on there, I mean, based on his baby hands is when, when you said that he's a, I think you meant to say he's a fire woman. How dare you?

You guys bring up my small hands in this conversation. We're talking about Calvinism. God predestined me to have these small hands. Okay. All glory to God. And then you call me a fire woman. I'm about to become a fire Karen here in a moment.