Dead Men Walking Podcast: Jay Cameron Defending Pastor James Coates & Tim Stephens religious freedom

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00:09

Hey, Jason. What's going on, brother? Trying a new intro there, Greg. I like it.

00:15

Absolutely. Okay. That's another one by yours truly, Jason Hamlin. You know, it's a little riff.

00:22

We did all those different intros that one night, and I forgot about that one.

00:27

That's a pretty fun one. I feel like I'm on a horse, you know, riding into a battle. Yeah, absolutely. Something crazy.

00:33

That's what we like to think we do here on the podcast. Yeah, right. There you go. Really, it's just two knuckleheads talking about politics, culture, and theology.

00:40

Theology. Yeah, right. How you been, man? Man, I am a little tired today. I went to Kansas City over the weekend for a funeral, and I slept in the

00:49

Kansas City airport last night. So yeah, man. So I pretty much had probably eight hours of sleep within the past two or three days.

01:00

But you ran into - Yeah, we're running. You ran into the cockpit and said, I have to get back to Detroit, baby.

01:05

I got a podcast to do. Right, right. You know, I was like, well, you know, we got delayed on the way there and on the way back.

01:16

So I was like, I wonder if I should just call Greg and tell him he might have to do this one. I'm sorry. But yeah.

01:22

But no, we're here. We're ready. We miss you. And we're glad you didn't miss it, because we have a special guest on here.

01:28

We want to introduce him quickly before we get into newsy news. He is the litigation director for the Justice Center of Constitutional Freedoms and is what we're going to be talking about tonight, the

01:37

James Coates and Tim Stephens case. Mr. Jay Cameron is on the podcast.

01:43

Jay, how are you, sir? I'm well. Thanks for having me, guys. Absolutely.

01:49

Our fake audience loves you. That's not a fake audience. That's a real audience. We hire extras to stand here and clap just for you.

01:58

So we're going to get into what Jay does, what Mr. Cameron does, and what we're going to talk about.

02:04

But before we do that, let's get into two quick newsy news stories that I think are pertinent to what we're going to talk to tonight, talk about tonight.

02:11

Ready for some newsy news? Oh, yeah. Let's do it. News, the news, the newsy, newsy news, the news, the news, the newsy, newsy, news, news.

02:21

We got some news! Oh, love that song. All right.

02:27

So yeah, the first news story that I had here, Richard Davis, president and CEO of Make -A -Wish

02:34

America. Okay. And I'm reading from Holistic Health and More from Instagram, but this is their quote.

02:47

This is literally a new low for humanity. Terminally ill children will not be granted a wish.

02:53

From the Make -A -Wish Foundation, unless, you guessed it, they're fully vaccinated.

03:00

Are you kidding me? Yeah. Now, whichever side you're on with the vaccines, let's take a step back and realize what's going on with these children.

03:10

So they're terminally ill, they're Make -A -Wish, which is, for anyone who doesn't know what that is, that is a foundation that grants a child a request, mostly it's terminal cancer as a child or something like that, a disease that's terminal.

03:24

And they're saying now that they're not going to grant a wish to the children that are dying unless they're vaccinated?

03:30

Yeah. And the people around them, probably, I'm guessing, right? More than likely. What level of craziness have we got to?

03:36

I mean, we have, I'm wondering if they all have to wear three masks as well and a face shield.

03:43

Jeez. But yeah, this is, I mean, it was already kind of pretty much getting out of hand.

03:49

I shouldn't even say kind of. It has gotten out of hand, but yeah, this is just nuts.

03:55

So Jay, is anything like that going on in Canada? I know we're going to get into the religious liberties aspect of it here in a few minutes, but do you see private corporations and nonprofits kind of kowtowing to this type of thought?

04:07

Yeah, it's epidemic in Canada as well. And some governments are saying that they're going to create, they don't say they're going to create a two -tiered society, but they are creating a two -tiered society by saying you can't travel, you can't move in between provinces.

04:22

You can't attend social gatherings, events, those types of things without being vaccinated.

04:29

So it's happening in Canada as well. Yeah. I've been hearing also with live concerts, they're going to have a section for vaccinated and non -vaccinated people.

04:39

They're going to split people up. Yeah. Disney on ice is doing it. Broadway is saying don't show up unless you're vaccinated.

04:47

But a Journey reunion tour show is such a clean place to be anyway.

04:53

Right. Hey, don't stop believing, right? Right. So what's our second story? Let's move on to the second one, then we'll get in with Mr.

05:01

Cameron. Definitely. So this comes from Global News. U .S.

05:06

Senator requests Canada investigated for religious freedom violations over Alberta pastors' arrests.

05:13

Now this was on June 25th, 2021. A U .S. senator has asked that Canada be investigated for violating religious freedom over the arrests of Alberta pastors accused of flouting

05:26

COVID -19 restrictions. In a letter released Thursday, Missouri Republican Josh Hawley asked his country's

05:36

Commission on International Religious Freedom to consider putting Canada on its special watch list.

05:41

I am troubled that our Canadian neighbors are effectively being forced to gather in secret undisclosed locations to exercise their basic freedom to worship.

05:52

And yeah, we have a quote from litigation director Jay Cameron. I don't know if you guys know, but he's on the show tonight of the

06:01

Justice Center for Constitutional Freedoms, which is representing Stevens, has accused

06:07

Alberta Health Services in a statement of being engaged in an intentional act of public deception and abuse of authority in arresting

06:16

Pastor Stevens and others. Wow. So yeah, so now we even have some congressmen, some senators from the

06:21

United States getting involved too. I don't know how much weight that will carry. Right. But it's good to see that, you know, other representatives in North America are understanding what's happening in Canada right now, which

06:33

I think is a great segue story into introducing Mr. Jay Cameron. Jay, can you tell us a little bit about yourself, a little bit about the

06:41

Justice Center for Constitutional Freedoms and what it is that you guys do, and then maybe give us an update on Pastor James Coates and Pastor Tim Stevens?

06:50

Sure. The Justice Center for Constitutional Freedoms is a civil liberties organization in Canada. We're a registered charity.

06:57

We accept no government money. And really, to boil it down, all we do is sue the government.

07:03

And they give us lots of work these days because they have no respect for the Constitution and the civil liberties of Canadians.

07:10

They have no respect for the written text of the Constitution or democracy itself, the checks and balances that are built into the rule of law.

07:18

And so we're very busy. We litigate from coast to coast. And we represent a wide variety of people on freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, freedom of religion issues.

07:30

And Pastor Coates and Pastor Stevens are two of our clients. And can you just tell the audience, for those who might not know, can you just give a quick overview of those two cases and what you feel is being violated in those cases that you guys are representing?

07:42

Right. So, you know, in Canada, despite the fact that the United States is open, for the most part, people are traveling again.

07:51

People are moving about freely. Disneyland, even in California, is open. It's a surprise to many Americans to find out that Canada is still locked down in many, many places.

08:01

In fact, Toronto, Ontario, probably still the most locked down place on the entire planet.

08:08

In Alberta, you have a health dictator who is not accountable to the citizens.

08:15

She was appointed. And she makes laws for millions of people without any legislative accountability, meaning so that there's no democratic check on her power.

08:25

She does whatever she wants, whenever she wants, however she wants. And then the police have to do whatever she says. So, I mean, it's a scary situation in Alberta.

08:33

And she has said at various points in time, there's no indoor gatherings or there's severe limits on indoor gatherings in churches specifically.

08:41

Sometimes there are different rules for churches. And so some of our clients, they look at the

08:46

Constitution and they say, well, the Constitution says we have a right to freedom of assembly and freedom of religion.

08:54

And so we are going to assemble for the purposes of practicing our religion. And the

08:59

Constitution is the supreme law of the land, not these health orders from this health dictator.

09:07

And that has landed them in increasingly deeper conflict with the police and the health authorities in the province of Alberta.

09:18

So much so that despite the fact that you could go to Walmart, you go to the liquor store, you can go buy pot, you can buy cannabis, which is legal in Canada, you cannot go to church.

09:34

And so when Pastor Coates, week after week, would have a church service, eventually

09:42

AHS came in with a SWAT team, barricaded the church with three fences, three layers of fencing, changed the locks, and the church has been meeting underground.

09:51

And Pastor Coates was arrested. He was in jail for 35 days.

09:57

Thirty five days. Fourteen of those days was in solitary confinement away from his wife and his children.

10:05

And when he got out, the health orders are not an arrestable offense.

10:11

But what they said is, well, you fail to abide by the terms of your undertaking when you were released.

10:18

And so you're arrestable for that. And so they arrested him and they held him. And so really, it's nobody else in Alberta is being targeted like Christian pastors because they are the voice of dissent, an organized voice of dissent against the lockdowns and the tyrants who are running society.

10:37

And so Pastor Stevens, he's still in jail. It's been almost two weeks since he was arrested.

10:43

He was wrongfully arrested and the Justice Centre is about to launch a lawsuit to sue the Alberta government over his wrongful arrest the first time.

10:51

He's been in jail for 13 days as of today because he held a church service on June 6th.

10:57

And so he was arrested on June 15th and he has been in jail. He has eight children.

11:03

He was arrested in front of his wife and children. His kids were crying. And, you know, I mean, you know, what did he do?

11:10

You know, is he cooking meth? You know, is he is he running drugs? Is he involved in organized crime?

11:16

No, his crime is ministering to hurting people who have lost their jobs.

11:22

They've lost their retirement. Their domestic relationships are falling apart because of the lockdowns.

11:29

And and, you know, the church is a hospital for the sick and the hurting. And he's been ministering to the congregation.

11:35

So they shut that church down as well. And he is in jail today. And and the Justice Centre for Constitutional Freedoms represents both of these principal gentlemen who recognize that there is such a thing as right and wrong and and that whatever the state says sometimes is is not the right thing.

11:51

And and that there are there are higher obligations. They recognize that and they believe that they have higher obligations to God and and that those supersede the authority of the state.

12:01

Now, correct me if I'm wrong here, but I thought I had read or seen in a news article that after 13 months of lockdown,

12:10

James Coates, Pastor Jim Coates, is in court. And essentially, and I don't know how much you can speak to what's going on on the legal side of it, but essentially the attorneys were arguing for James Coates.

12:23

Look, you have to have a scientific reason to to to have these mandates, to have these laws.

12:28

And the government said we don't have any scientific evidence for why we're shutting down and locking down after 13 months of essentially soft tyranny or tyranny, if you want to call it that.

12:38

They have no evidence for these type of bureaucratic, you know, made up laws.

12:45

So, I mean, what foot does the does the Canadian government have to stand on here? I mean, what are they thinking?

12:51

Yeah, there's there's a number of really concerning elements about Pastor Coates's case. First of all, you have you have a government that refuses to go to court to justify why it's doing what it's doing.

13:02

So, first of all, you have somebody who is not democratically accountable making orders.

13:09

Then you have a government who has been sued by Pastor Coates and and is in court against a constitutional challenge to these health orders under which he has been been operating and the whole province has been operating.

13:22

But when they have the opportunity to present science, because the Justice Centre has world class experts, we've retained, you know, for example,

13:32

Dr. Jay Bhattacharya, who's from Stanford. He's one of the principal authors of the Great Barrington Declaration.

13:39

And we have a number of other high profile experts to talk about whether or not these lockdowns are justified.

13:46

The government has done everything in its power to delay having a court hearing. In fact, they asked for an adjournment into July.

13:52

Meanwhile, churches are shut down. You know, people are in jail. So that's that's a very significant issue.

13:59

One of the other problems is, is that Pastor Coates' trial was bifurcated. It was split into two components.

14:06

So the question the first question was whether or not there was an infringement. So he was arrested. He goes to jail.

14:12

He's in jail for 35 days. His church is locked. The building is chained up.

14:18

There's a fence around it. And they're meeting underground, like in China. They're hiding from the authorities because they are afraid of being arrested and incarcerated.

14:28

That's what's happening in the neighbor right next to the

14:33

United States. And and the judge in the case came back with this decision. And unfortunately, he said, you know, being arrested, having your church shut down, going to jail for 35 days, 14 days in solitary confinement.

14:47

None of those things is an infringement of your constitutional right to assemble or to worship. Wow. And so you have a breakdown in Canada.

14:57

I think it's really important to underscore for Americans what is happening in Canada.

15:03

You have a breakdown in the systems that are in place to hold government power in check.

15:09

Without those systems in place, you have rule by by tyrants. And that's what's happening in Canada.

15:15

And there's this old quote by this philosopher. His name is Charles Baron de

15:21

Montesquieu, Charles de Montesquieu. And he said, when the legislature and the executive are combined, there can be no liberty.

15:30

And that is what's happening in Canada, because you have the power of the executive combined with the legislature.

15:36

Right. There is no democracy anymore. It's collapsed into one authoritarian person. And that there can be no liberty under such a form of government.

15:45

And so you have a complete breakdown in the democratic checks and balances that are supposed to protect people from tyrannical government.

15:53

And then you're supposed to have a judiciary, which is to apply the Constitution to hold government in check.

15:59

And that unfortunately, that judiciary is is so far in Canada has been asleep at the switch.

16:06

You know, I maybe I'll get, you know, somebody will complain about me saying that.

16:11

But the plain wording of the Constitution says that there are fundamental rights and freedoms for Canadians.

16:18

You know, freedom of religion, conscience, speech, assembly, and that these rights are fundamental in the

16:24

Constitution is the supreme law of the land. But what what judges are doing is they're interpreting interpreting the health order in health orders as supreme.

16:33

And so it's a very it's a very scary situation in Canada. Yeah. I mean, this entire situation,

16:41

I mean, it really it hurts my heart to see the video.

16:47

I mean, to see the headlines that are happening. I mean, it really it really does bring tears to my eyes to see the

16:57

I I'm sorry, I can't remember the the Polish pastor's name that was just arrested in the middle of the highway.

17:05

In the middle of the highway. I mean, you know, I mean, what's the urgency there?

17:11

I know. I mean, like, this is like, this is just gone to a different level. But yeah,

17:17

I mean, it is a right to be able to assemble this is this is not something that like, we should even have to worry about as Christians.

17:28

And I mean, you know, our mandate comes from Hebrews 10, starting in verse 24.

17:34

And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works. And then verse 25, not neglecting to meet together as as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another.

17:49

And all the more as you see the day drawing near. I mean, whenever the church comes together, you know, we don't just we don't just come together just to say hi.

18:01

Yeah, just say hi. I mean, we we're actually living out this this

18:06

Christian life. You know, together we are we are encouraging one another. You know,

18:13

I mean, the scripture says, like, we should gather. And I mean, for the people that are at home alone.

18:22

I mean, the suicide rates, the depression rates. I mean, there's so many things that are overdose.

18:28

Yeah. Health issues. Yeah. Domestic violence. Canada is really going to suffer from that, too, if they're still in lockdown.

18:35

Exactly. Yeah. Two, three years from now. How long does it go? You know, like how long is long enough to say, like, we need to just be alone at our house.

18:47

You know, we shouldn't interact with anyone, because if you come within 10 or six feet of anyone,

18:54

I mean, you possibly may get this this this disease, this virus. But, yeah,

19:01

I mean, it really it makes me think about just the war on the church that's happening.

19:08

And I mean, at the same time, I do know that Christ is going to be glorified through this.

19:13

I mean, he is being glorified through this. I mean, a lot of people thinking and praying and just, you know,

19:21

I mean, I don't know. Just well, there's so many so many good things are are coming out of this and justice will be done.

19:29

You know, God will not be mocked. And yeah, I'm on the flip side of that, too.

19:34

It's tough because you can have you can be a citizen and you can thump your Bible at a magistrate or a judge and say, well, this is what my

19:40

Bible says. And they go, hey, go pound sand. Right. We have a constitution. That's why I'm so grateful for guys like Jay and what they're doing at his organization, because you go look at there are ways that we have to fight these things in the courts and with constitutional law in those things.

19:58

And it's great that we have that as Christian. Absolutely. Pretty much backs us up. Absolutely.

20:05

Yeah. And then, you know, and then even like you and I were talking about before is like, you know, the whole thing is predicated upon a pandemic.

20:11

I mean, this thing has a two point five or not. It's a little bit more contagious than the flu.

20:17

Right. Less people have actually died in the United States. And I'm talking about from covid alone, about 80000 comorbidities and all the other cases, obesity, heart disease, cancer, terminal illness, whatever it is.

20:28

And you just go, OK, is this even truly a pandemic to then, like Jay was saying, have a bureaucrat who has apps?

20:35

We have absolutely no that, you know, the government loves bureaucrats because there's no restitution for voters.

20:40

We can't go and vote out a bureaucrat. They're appointed. Yeah, we have no say in the matter. And it sounds like that's what you're saying up there,

20:46

Jay, in Canada. I would circle back around to this. What does this mean for the United States? Because we had Pastor Joe Boudin from Canada a few months ago, and he was really going look at you in the

20:55

United States. Everyone else in North America really need to be watching what's happening in Canada, because I know personally, culturally, we follow

21:01

Canada about five, 10 years behind culturally, maybe not legally with certain laws and our constitutions are different.

21:08

But it seems like culturally, if Canada is the secular culture is accepting, hey, look, we just have to lock down and this is what we have to do.

21:15

I don't know if America isn't that far behind. So what does this mean for United States listeners right now when we're hearing these things happening in Canada?

21:22

I think it's important to remember that freedom is a generational question. So, you know, the right to assemble for the purposes of seeking redress for wrongs comes from William Penn.

21:36

That's why it's in the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights and William Penn was operating in a system where the

21:43

British had said you can not gather for the purposes of having religious service with any more than five people.

21:48

And there was a meeting of Quakers and William Penn was preaching, and he was arrested and the jury refused to convict him and so the

21:56

British magistrate was so angry, they threw William Penn and the jurors all in prison.

22:03

And William Penn, of course, the founder of Pennsylvania, and so out of that type of oppression, you had the codification of the right to assemble for the purpose of religion and for the purposes of seeking redress for public grievances.

22:19

And, you know, you look back at where these rights come from.

22:24

People forget these rights come from a history of bloodshed and tyranny and opposition.

22:31

Really, you know, you look at people like William Tyndale. William Tyndale, you know, he was the he translated the

22:39

Bible into the English language, it was illegal at that point in time to have a copy of the Bible in the English language. He had to flee to Europe.

22:46

You met Martin Luther and Melanchthon and Erasmus, he translated the Bible, the printing press was in operation, copies were smuggled into England, and a confederacy between the

22:58

Church of England and the Pope's army, they arrested him, they had a trial, he was strangled, and then he was burnt at the stake.

23:05

And, you know, it is out of this type of oppression, Galileo, you know, it was dogma at a certain point in time that the earth was the center of the universe and that the sun rotated around the earth and Galileo looked through the telescope and said well that's not correct.

23:21

But it was illegal for him to talk about it and to write about it and eventually was brought before the Inquisition and he was told you will recant.

23:29

And so he was forced on pain of death to say all right the earth doesn't move and then the rumor is that under his breath he said but yet it moves.

23:37

But yet still for the last seven years of his life, he spent under house arrest and the problem is, guys, is that Americans, Canadians, we've had it so good for so long that people are complacent.

23:51

They, you know, they do not recognize that the voice of dissent is a

23:57

Christian principle, right? It is, you look at, you know, I respectfully disagree with all of the people who say well you have to obey the civil authorities.

24:10

You have to obey the civil authorities insofar as it does not conflict with the right of conscience, but the Bible is replete with examples.

24:16

I mean the Justice Center is a secular organization, a civil liberties organization, but this is a Christian podcast so I mean you guys know the

24:23

Bible is replete with examples where people disobeyed the civil authorities on an issue of conscience.

24:30

You know, look at Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, look at Daniel, look at the apostles when they were arrested and they were told not to preach and then the angel told them to go back into the public square to preach in defiance of what the civil authorities had said.

24:44

And so, like that principle of dissent and of protest is part of the roots of America and that has trickled over into Canada.

24:55

And, you know, we have to exercise our fundamental rights and freedoms, otherwise we will lose them.

25:02

We are one generation away at any given point in time from losing those rights and freedoms. They can be on the books, but there's this great quote from a judge, his name is

25:10

Learned Hand, he's an American judge. And he said, when liberty dies in the hearts of men and women, no constitution can save it.

25:21

Right, you can have a constitution, but if it is not in your heart, right, it doesn't matter.

25:26

And I would just say really quick, we've covered Romans 13 quite a lot on here and everyone forgets the second and third verses that says, and government authorities that have been established by God are not a terror to the righteous and peacemakers and those who aren't doing anything wrong essentially.

25:42

Well, what happens when a government is doing that? It sounds like in Canada, you have a bureaucrat that's saying you can't peacefully gather at a church.

25:49

Well, now Romans 13 goes right out the window like Jay pointed out, the dissent in the

25:56

Christian life is throughout not only the Bible, but the early church and all those other places.

26:01

Yeah, for sure. If you don't mind me asking Jay, I don't know if you can or can't comment on this, but so for you for your

26:08

Justice Center of Constitutional Freedom, what is the goal here for these two cases for Pastor James Coates and Pastor Tim Stevens?

26:14

What is kind of the strategy or what are you trying to argue to kind of, you know, to correct this issue?

26:24

So, on the Pastor Coates issue, we've filed a constitutional challenge to the public health orders, and we have assembled scientific data regarding the efficacy, right, the benefits or lack thereof of lockdowns.

26:39

You know, we have science on everything from PCR tests to what happens when you lock people in their houses with their children, you close schools, you close churches, right, you take away people's ability to earn a living.

26:53

And so there's that going, that type of analysis is going to take place in that case. And so ultimately speaking, you know, in both cases, we're looking for a couple things.

27:03

Number one, we're looking for a declaration that the state is out of line here, that they have infringed these two pastors, these two citizens' constitutional rights, and that it's not justified.

27:16

Because only by establishing precedent, see, and again, this is one of the things, and I don't want to, you know, monopolize the conversation on this.

27:26

That's why you're here. Yeah. You know, I think it's important to recognize that there are safeguards in the criminal context, okay?

27:34

The police cannot just randomly stop you, check your backpack, tell you to open the trunk of your car, throw you in jail for a week without a bail hearing, right?

27:44

You have to have habeas corpus, there are checks and balances, you have Miranda rights in the United States, you have

27:49

Section 7, 9, 10, 11 in the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, you have a right to a lawyer, you have a right to be informed of the reason for your arrest and detention, you have a right to appear before a judge, you have a right to a bail hearing, right?

28:03

You have all of these rights. And the reason you have these rights is because the state, it is axiomatic. The state is always getting out of line.

28:12

Look at human history, it's a long history of oppression where people in positions of authority abuse the people who are underneath them.

28:22

And that's why you have a constitution in the first place. And so those checks and balances are very important, they exist in the criminal context, but in the health context, you have a tremendous fear mongering, you know, you have this fear narrative, constant fear, fear, fear, lockdowns, lockdowns, lockdowns, granny's gonna die, granny's gonna die.

28:41

People don't read the statistics, they don't see that 99 .7 % of people who get this recover, most of them with no medical intervention, right?

28:50

What they watch is the news. Okay, and then in Canada, you have the state broadcaster, the

28:56

Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, some people call it the Communist Broadcasting Corporation. Either works.

29:03

Same for CNN down here. I mean, why pull punches? I mean, they, you know, the government nationalized the legacy media and gave them $600 million last year.

29:13

And so there's a significant incentive for legacy media outlets to print what the government wants it to. And so you have one side of a narrative.

29:20

But so that narrative is going out. And in the health context, you have no checks and balances. In Canada, you have the ability of these health officials and it has happened.

29:33

You know, to order the arrest of somebody to take them to a facility, there's no bail hearing, there's no right to counsel, the family isn't notified.

29:40

And you know, and you think that this is this is like China. Yeah, this is what was happening in Quebec, which is just north of, you know, the eastern

29:49

United States. And so, you know, this, this is the status quo right now in Canada, and I want to say a word about universal healthcare.

30:00

Okay. Americans, many Americans have been have been bombarded with the narrative that Canada has this tremendous universal healthcare system.

30:08

Everybody has free medical. It's fantastic. America needs to have the same model.

30:14

But the fact is, is that that universal health care has been instrumental in creating in enslaving and locking down the because it's government in control of health, you're not in control of your own health, all of a sudden, there's this state mandate to safeguard everybody's health, you know, and, and, you know, they're, they canceled essential surgeries and diagnostics.

30:43

And even before COVID, the situation in Canada with respect to health care was, you know, very mediocre, and, you know,

30:49

Americans aren't told that if you have money, the ability to go to the United States, many people come to the United States because yes,

30:55

Canada, health care is free in Canada. But, but, you know, you're on a waitlist, waitlist for two and a half years, and we had a client who he slipped a disc in his back playing hockey.

31:06

And he was on a waitlist for two and a half years, he went to Montana to get the surgery, right. And then he came back to the Canadian government, the bill, and they said, we're not paying this because you have free health care in Canada.

31:14

He's like, I can't walk and can't play with my with my daughter. I can't work. Like you

31:20

Americans need to understand that universal health care is a double edged sword.

31:25

And in Canada, the people have been suffering under what has become a health dictatorship where you have one person who is unilaterally making you were talking about bureaucrats unilaterally making rules for millions of people without democratic accountability that is run through the health care system.

31:47

Yeah, I mean, it's state ran control. Whether it's health care, I mean, and then you have either, you know, forced or coerced care or withheld care, because you have a state panel or one bureaucrat or a group of bureaucrats deciding what's best for your personal health.

32:02

I've got one more question here. Jason, did you have one? Yeah, no, I just want to make sure that we get this in before we're out here.

32:08

Yeah, because I know, I know. Yeah, we only have so much time. But we were sent a video from your

32:15

PR person. That was called the government war on worship.

32:21

And that is on rumble. I want to make sure that everyone goes out there and checks that out.

32:27

We have to get the link to you guys. We'll post it. It is it is a great video, man.

32:34

It is so good. But the government war on worship. That is on rumble. Please, please go check that out.

32:42

Yeah. But sorry. So just kind of off subject here. And I don't know if I've had a satisfying answer yet.

32:47

So for country, and I want to get your opinion. And maybe you go, I don't know why. But to any halfway intelligent person.

32:55

Okay, I'm not the smartest guy. But I think I have some common. And I look at I look at everything when we talk about COVID and the

33:01

Coronavirus and all these things. And we look at, you know, the are not and we look at the cases and the, you know, fatalities and the survival rates and all these things.

33:12

Why has major countries developed countries, like Canada, and even the

33:17

United States, to some extent, insisted on these year long, half year, year, year and a half long lockdowns, when there's there's no evidence that that has to be done.

33:27

First of all, Corona is going to be here forever. We still have an H1N1, we still have bird flu, we still have, you know, nothing gets eradicated.

33:36

They always come back around. So Corona is not going away, it will be a seasonal virus. So in your opinion,

33:42

I just look at it, I go, is it just is it bureaucrats and elected officials seeking power? Is there some underlying motive that you think we have at a global level or even national level?

33:52

What's your opinion on that? Because I have to think you look at these lockdowns and go, these are unnecessary. And any reasonable person, any reasonable person would understand that, even if you're an elected official or politician.

34:03

Yeah, I there and there's there are politicians asking these questions, but they don't get coverage in the mainstream media in Canada.

34:11

Now down in the US, you have you have other media outlets who do ask some of these hard questions.

34:17

And there's a counter, you know, there's you have the counter part of the conversation to what has become the mainstream narrative.

34:25

But, you know, you know, why is it happening? I think the answer is, is, is in part,

34:31

I think it's complex. I think that partly you have you have people who use their authority, like Neil Ferguson, for example, you know, he made these like crazy predictions, and they were adopted by governments.

34:49

And, and he was wildly inaccurate. We know now that if you are under the age of 65 years or so you ought to be more concerned about getting in your car to go to the grocery store, then you should be afraid of COVID.

35:04

You know, for many demographics COVID is less dangerous than a seasonal flu.

35:10

And, you know, the average age of death from COVID in Alberta is 83 years of age, you know, and the average life expectancy for the province is 82.

35:22

So live an extra year if you get COVID. Yeah, exactly. You know, like this type of this type of information is so key but you have

35:31

I think you have powerful people who seized control of COVID.

35:37

And whether it was planned or not, you know, I don't know I can't I can't say but what is clear is that you have powerful people seize control of this narrative for the purposes of of rolling back civil liberties and increasing control over society and and bringing in I mean you have politicians globally talking about a great reset that's not a conspiracy theory.

36:00

Right. Not at all. I've written, you know, read to.

36:07

So, I, you know, there is definitely a push to change the way that society operates, and this is whether it was whether it was planned, or whether it was utilized because it was convenient.

36:20

Really, you know, it might be six or six and a half dozen at the end of the day, we have, we have foundational constitutional principles that safeguard society from tyrants.

36:33

And those principles must be upheld and defended in the courts, and by the populace in order to maintain and preserve freedom.

36:43

It took centuries. Okay, of hard fought wars and bloodshed and dissent.

36:51

And, you know, and and the, the, the American experiment. Okay comes out of that history.

36:58

And people forget and so, you know, we have to we have to make sure that in order to be free people, we have to be free ourselves and value freedom, more than we value the, the, the, the promise, and it's a false promise of peace and safety from the government.

37:16

We know what the Bible says, when they say peace and safety then sudden destruction comes and they will not escape.

37:22

So, you know, the, the narrative from government is, you know, we will make you safe, and we will keep you healthy.

37:30

Right, but Canada is supposed to be a free and democratic society right the true north strong and free.

37:36

Well, you know, right now, Canada is neither free nor is it democratic and and and in various places in the

37:44

United States you had the same issues like look at, look at the authoritarianism in Michigan with Governor Whitmer, and, you know, the arbitrary classification of what you could buy and you couldn't buy incidentally we had the same thing in Manitoba in Canada.

38:00

And so, you know that those are these are red flags, where people ought to be saying, you know,

38:05

I, these people had these people who are in control and in authority have too much power.

38:12

And that's not how the constitutional system that we have in place is supposed to function. Parents in check.

38:20

Absolutely. Well, Mr. J Cameron, we know we have to wrap it up here I know you're a busy guy but as we do wrap this up, can you just throw out once again where people can get ahold of your organization where they could even support it.

38:33

I heard you say at the top of the show that you take no government money, so I'm assuming you take private money endowments things like that.

38:40

Could you just let the people know where they could find your organization at. Yeah, we are located at www .jccf .ca,

38:47

we take no government funding, all we do is sue the government. And, you know, we have been a break for this in to protect constitutional freedoms we have been a break when the legislature is not functioning in Parliament is not doing its job.

39:02

And to some extent, sadly, you know, you know the judiciary I mean the courts were closed. The Justice Center has acted as a break to a significant extent.

39:11

And so we appreciate your support we have a number of, of American donors, and, you know, if you want to donate to the cause of liberty and religious freedom, and we were happy to have your support.

39:23

Wow man we just thank you so much for the fight that you're doing up there. I know how hard that fight is me and Jason both know that that's that we have to have guys like you.

39:33

We have to have, we have to have organizations like that both in Canada and the United States on the front line standing for principle and doing those hard fights

39:41

I mean there's a lot of man hours time research. I'm sure it's just a lot of work doing what you do when you're going up against the state.

39:49

Yeah, you know, they have essentially unlimited resources. Think about that listeners unlimited resources they have unlimited force.

39:55

Yeah, right comply by force I mean it's just the uphill battle you guys have, but yet you stand strong and you come to the defense of people like James Coates and Tim Stevens, it's just a wonderful thing that you're doing.

40:07

Do you have anything for us Jason as we head out. Yeah, no, thank you so much Jay I mean the only thing that I'm kind of sad about is you didn't say a one time.

40:17

Don't Canadians. Oh yeah, you know, help us a whole episode without a dad joke, but help us.

40:28

There you go. We need, we need the. What was it, we need the applause.

40:36

Hey, all right, let's wrap it up before we derail guys we thank you so much for listening as always, you can just Google dead men walking, we're on every social media platform we're big on Instagram, you can find this video and this podcast obviously and on YouTube Jay Cameron thank you sir for being here and as always,