December 16, 2022 Show with Jeremy Brandenburg on “Bruce Hunt: Orthodox Presbyterian Missionary to Korea”

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Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of founding father

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

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And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth.

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We're listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is

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Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Friday on this 16th day of December 2022.

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I'm thrilled to have back on the program a returning guest. His name is

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Jeremy Brandenburg, a former Army officer and current pastor of Redeemer Orthodox Presbyterian Church right here in Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

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And today we're going to be addressing Bruce Hunt, early 20th century, second generation

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Orthodox Presbyterian missionary to Korea. And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Jeremy Brandenburg.

02:05

Hi, Chris. Thanks for having me on. Hey, thanks for coming on, brother. And for the sake of our listeners who have not yet heard anything about Redeemer Orthodox Presbyterian Church of Carlisle, Pennsylvania, why don't you tell us a little bit about that congregation?

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We are, as you mentioned, an OPC, Orthodox Presbyterian Church. We're right here, not in downtown, but we're on York Road in Carlisle.

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We've been at our current building for about going on eight years, nine years, and church is growing.

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Praise the Lord. We have robust worship according to scripture. Anyone who visits us, and many people have said this, and I'm very grateful for it, they'll find a welcoming congregation that loves

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Christ and, yeah, cares about people. So that's

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Redeemer OPC in short. Great. And if anybody wants to find out more information about Redeemer Orthodox Presbyterian Church of Carlisle, Pennsylvania, go to RedeemerOPC .org.

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That's RedeemerOPC .org. Well, you have requested that our discussion today be on Bruce Hunt, as I've already said in my announcement.

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He was an early 20th century, second generation Orthodox Presbyterian missionary to Korea.

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And why don't you tell our listeners why it is that you were so passionate and eager to discuss this brother who, not very long ago, entered into eternity with Christ.

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Right. Yeah. And thanks again for having me on and in particular having me on to talk about Bruce Hunt, but also missions and outreach and evangelism in general, because any

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Bible -believing Christian of any stripe knows that it's vital, both personal evangelism and sending missionaries.

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The Lord says, the harvest is plentiful, but the laborers are few. And that's, you know,

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I think a perennial truth in the church. And we're supposed to pray, and we always need more missionaries.

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And that's true now, and that's true for the OPC. So I, in a way,

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I think it is important to get the word out about Bruce Hunt and his story because I didn't hear it until I was in seminary.

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And it's a really compelling story. And I think there's a lot for not just reformed

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Christians, but, you know, every stripe of Christian to learn from his experience and his example.

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But I'm eager to talk about him because I think it's missions and evangelism and discipleship should be on our radar as individuals and as churches in a very big way.

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I'll just mention that the OPC, we have missionaries in several countries, and we need missionaries.

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We're praying as a church for pastors who will be called to go overseas.

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Thankfully, last year, we had at least one answer to prayer. There was a minister from our own presbytery who went to South America.

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So that was really encouraging, but we need more. Well, I know that Bruce Hunt was the son of missionaries in Korea.

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He was born himself in Korea. What can you say, what else can you say to lay the groundwork for this individual who we will be highlighting today?

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Yeah, so just by way of introduction, I would say that the two books that I've read, and there's, you know, longer books, of course, that would be equally as beneficial, and especially if you're looking to do some kind of scholarship about the

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Christianity in Korea. But the two books that kind of are most accessible and tell the story pretty succinctly are, the one is published by the

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OPC, it's called For a Testimony, the story of Bruce Hunt imprisoned for the gospel. And so if you want to get the concise, you know,

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Reader's Digest story of Bruce Hunt and his imprisonment and all of that, you want to read that book.

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And that's actually published by the OPC. The other book that's really good that I wish

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I had read much earlier in life is published by the Banner of Truth right here in Carlisle. I actually looked it up before the show just to make sure it's still published by the

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Banner of Truth, and it is, it's on their website, but it's called The Korean Pentecost and the Sufferings Which Followed.

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And that one is actually written by William Blair and Bruce Hunt. And I would tell,

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I mean, that for me is definitely on my top 10 books that every Christian should read.

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And that is, you know, I understand that's putting, giving it a pretty high place. But I think given the time in which we're living,

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Chris, I think it's, I think in many ways it was a wake -up call to me, but also a great encouragement about the power of Christ, the truth of the gospel, and the need for perseverance.

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But yeah, so Bruce Hunt, I mean, to just lay the groundwork,

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I think it would be helpful to talk just briefly about the history of missions in Korea in general.

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Sounds good to me. Yeah, and I think it's something, again, that I was really,

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I think it's really fascinating. Of course, the story of the Church and the gospel going into any unreached place is incredible, and it's miraculous.

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But the story of the Church in Korea, I think what makes it interesting is that it happened, you know, in relatively recent times.

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There were some Catholics that were in Korea, were ministering to Koreans who were in China.

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Obviously, Korea is a peninsula. It's connected to China. But the first Protestant missionary, his name was

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Robert Goodsloff, and he went to Korea in 1832.

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He was a friend of Robert Morrison, who I'm sure many of your listeners will recognize as the first Protestant missionary to China.

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And like many missions endeavors at that time, it was kind of linked in with commercial enterprises because, you know, the missionaries, unless you had the resources and the wherewithal of some of these missionary societies you're still using, you still needed a way to get into these countries.

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And so Robert Goodsloff, he actually was sent by the East India Company in 1832 to explore some of the northern ports of China to see if they were open to British trade.

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And, you know, they were trying to reach the local government and send messages and requests that, you know, meetings and things like that.

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Eventually, they came to what's known as Chungnam Province today.

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That's in South Korea on the western side of the peninsula, and they petitioned the government. And they asked that they would open trade.

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They sent gifts, and all of that was returned. It was not a successful mission.

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They were not willing to open up trade. They had to consult with the Chinese. I heard a really interesting lecture from a

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Korean American pastor about the church in China, and I would, you know, suggest to any of your listeners to get, you know, that's also an even better perspective on the

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Korean church is obviously from a Korean, even a Korean American who has, who's kind of lived the history and understands it personally.

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But this pastor was giving a lecture in the Korean church that was explaining how the

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Koreans have always been leading up to their independence after World War II and the division in North and South Korea.

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They were always kind of under the control of outside influences in a lot of ways. They talked about the fact that there was no

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Korean patriotism until the 20th century. But anyway, so Gutzloff, this

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German, is the first Protestant missionary, and he's sent by the East India Company.

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He's on this ship called the Lord Amherst, and it's really mostly unsuccessful. He did distribute some

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Bibles. He did make contact with some Koreans, but there was no, you know, substantial fruit from his work there.

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He wasn't able, there were no churches established. But in the book,

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The Korean Pentecost and the Sufferings Which Followed, there is this really remarkable prayer and testimony from Gutzloff about what, you know, his perspective on just getting the

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Word of God into Korea. And he says that, I'll read part of what he says.

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This is his reflections on his short, short visit to Korea. He said,

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In the great plan of eternal God, there will be a time of merciful visitation for them. That's the Koreans. While we look for this, we ought to be very anxious to hasten its approach by diffusing the glorious doctrines of the cross by all means and power.

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The scripture teaches us to believe that God can bless even these feeble beginnings. Let us hope that better days will soon dawn for Korea.

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As you think about that prayer and that reflection in light of everything that followed in Korean history, to me, it's just a tremendous encouragement and speaks to the reality of the power of the gospel and the

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Word of God. Because, I mean, that prayer, that desire to see the church flourish and the scriptures be taught, was fulfilled, you know, a hundredfold.

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So that's Good Sloth. And there was no Protestant missionary in Korea for 33 years.

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And then this is a long, yeah, that's a long period, right, of no missionary activity.

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And this is a long segue into Bruce Hunt, but I think your audience will find it, especially if you've never heard this story, they'll find it very compelling.

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So Good Sloth goes, there's, in 33 years, there's no Protestant missionary. And then this man,

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R .J. Thomas, comes along, and he's sent by the London Missionary Society. And he starts off, he reaches

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Chae -Fu in China. And as I mentioned earlier, there's Koreans living in China, and that's his first exposure to Koreans, Korean culture.

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And he becomes persuaded that because of how the Koreans could read the

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Chinese characters, he becomes persuaded that there was an opening, and he could be very useful. Because he obviously didn't speak

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Korean at that point, but he knew Chinese. And you also have to understand that Korea was a closed country.

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Foreigners were not really permitted, and in many cases, they were threatened with death if they tried to enter the country.

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So here comes R .J. Thomas, he's with the London Missionary Society, and he's trying to find whatever way possible to get to the peninsula.

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And his first attempt, he's able to get a ship, but he only makes it to some islands off the west coast.

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And then later, on his second attempt, he's permitted to join an

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American -owned ship called the General Sherman, which I think, as Americans, there's definitely some providential irony in the fact that he's on a ship called the

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General Sherman. But this is a commercial ship, they're doing exploration work, they're going for commercial purposes, they want to establish trade and connections with the government.

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So in 1866, this ship, the General Sherman, sets out and they let

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R .J. Thomas come on board, and he's got his bag of, his container, his package of Bibles and tracts, and they set out and they cross the

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Yellow Sea. They start making their way up a major river system in the

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Korean peninsula. And this river led to one of the largest cities in Korea, and they actually were able to stop, they went to shore, they met the governor there.

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But something happened that led to, that kind of set off a whole sequence of events.

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It was like a domino effect that turned out to be very bad for the men on the ship.

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What happened was, when they stopped and they met the governor, they ended up taking five Native Koreans on board.

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And these men were, they weren't prisoners per se, but they were basically brought on board and kept on board, and they really didn't like this, and then two of them even died trying to escape.

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And again, you have to keep in mind, this is a closed country, there is not a lot of interaction with foreigners.

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And the people in this area became enraged, and they came out by the thousands.

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And apparently there was rumor spreading that these men had come, and they were going to be robbing their tombs, and they were even, this is pretty gruesome, but they were even going to steal the eyes of children to make foreign medicine.

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So there's some real hostility swelling up, and thousands of people come out against this ship and their crew.

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And the problem for them, in addition to, on top of the fact they're making the Koreans really mad, was that they had sailed up this portion of the river that was only passable once a month.

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And the people came out by thousands, and they're lining both banks of the river, and they're firing, they had,

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I guess they had flintlock rifles back then, and they're firing at the ship. And the crew decides, okay, let's save our skins and let's just get out of here.

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But by that point, when they had crossed north, going north on the river, they had crossed at the one time a month that it was actually passable, going over these rapids.

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So on their way back, they obviously didn't realize this, and they ran aground. And so there's this ship, the

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General Sherman, and all of these crew members, they're stuck there, and the

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Koreans continue to attack. And they had, the crew had some weapons, and they fought back. But then what the

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Koreans ended up doing, this is really unbelievable, it just shows how hostile they were at that time to outsiders.

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They actually, so the Koreans are trying to destroy these guys, and they set a whole bunch of fishing boats on fire.

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And they launched these boats down the river at the perfect time to where they're moving full speed ahead, and there's this whole, like, basically line of boats on fire.

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The General Sherman catches on fire, and then, of course, all the men start to abandon ship. Well, the crew, there was five

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Westerners, and the rest were kind of Asian crew members, Chinese, and Malaysians, I think.

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And the crew, as they get to shore, they have weapons, and so they're fighting, they're trying to fight off the Koreans and save their lives.

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So all these guys are fighting, but there's one man who's not fighting, and there's one man who doesn't have weapons, and that is the missionary,

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R .J. Thomas. And R .J. Thomas approaches the Koreans, and he doesn't have a gun or a rifle or a sword, he has his arms full of Bibles.

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And as the Koreans were clubbing him and killing him, even, he thrust the

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Bibles into their hands and was able to scatter some on the shore. And the crew are killed, the ship sinks, and the connection here to Bruce Hunt is that apparently they took—so this is the beginning of mission work in Korea, to give you a sense of how hostile of a place it was.

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And apparently they took the chain from the anchor of this ship, and they hung part of it on some of the gates at this city where they were.

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Can you guess, Chris, what city this was in Korea? Seoul.

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And you know what, that's what I would have guessed. Believe it or not, the city that this happened at, that eventually became a hub of the

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Presbyterian Church and Christian missions was Pyongyang, in what is now

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North Korea. Isn't that incredible? Oh, yeah. And actually, so there was

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Bruce Hunt and his generation, his era of missionaries, and like you said, he grew up there.

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He was a boy growing up in what is now—I mean, it's unbelievable to think about this, given what we know about North Korea.

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But Bruce Hunt, growing up as a boy, would go by this place, these gates in the old city of Pyongyang, and he would see the anchor from this ship hanging there.

20:39

I think from the Korean perspective, kind of it's like a trophy of, you know, don't mess with us. But here is

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Bruce Hunt, this boy growing up as a missionary kid in Korea, and seeing the work of the gospel, and seeing believers come to Christ.

20:54

And actually, one of the men who preceded Bruce Hunt, who was one of the first to follow after Robert Thomas, was

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Samuel Moffat. He was a Presbyterian. He was one of the first men to actually take up residence in Pyongyang, and one of his first Korean disciples was the son of a man who received one of the

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Bibles from R .J. Thomas. Wow. You mean one of the soldiers that was killing him?

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The son of... Right, one of the Koreans who was... Yeah. So that actually was used of God to bear fruit in salvation.

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Those very men who were killing him, at least one of them, who had the

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Bible thrust in his arms, began to read it? Is that what you're saying? Yeah, I think that's the story.

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And what's also remarkable is, I mean, I don't think these churches exist now, but in the 1950s, there were 27

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Presbyterian churches, basically, that had sprouted and grown up along this portion of the

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Taedong River near Pyongyang. And they actually built a memorial chapel to R .J.

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Thomas. Wow. Well, we have to go to our first station break right now.

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If you have a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

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C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com. I want to remind my guest, Pastor Jeremy, to mute himself.

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That's royaldiadem .com, royaldiadem .com. If you just tuned us in, our guest today is

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Jeremy Brandenburg, pastor of Redeemer Orthodox Presbyterian Church right here in Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

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We are discussing Bruce Hunt, early 20th century, second generation

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Orthodox Presbyterian missionary to Korea. Our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com,

36:00

chrisarnson at gmail .com. As always, give us your first name at least, your city and state, and your country of residence.

36:09

And we already have a couple of people who have written to us about today's program.

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They're not questions, they're just comments. Alex in Goldenrod, Florida said that he just read the book about his life, and of course his is referring to Bruce Hunt, and he's looking forward to hearing the rest of the program.

36:36

And we also got an email from Pastor John Yenshko, who is a

36:45

PCA pastor out on Long Island, New York.

36:51

He is the pastor of the North Shore Community Church in the

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Oyster Bay area of Long Island, New York. And he said that he had the privilege of meeting this great man of God, Bruce Hunt.

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He says, when I was a pastor at New Life Orthodox Presbyterian Church in Jenkin Town, Pennsylvania, Bruce Hunt often came to worship with us.

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It was always a joy to have him with us. He came with his daughter Connie Stonehouse.

37:32

Thanks for the nice memory. So I just thought I'd encourage you with both of those emails,

37:39

Pastor Jeremy. And so tell us how it is that Bruce Hunt himself, after being raised in Korea by missionary parents, do we know of a point in time in his life when he said to himself,

38:07

I have to pick up the mantle for my parents and continue their labors for the glory of Christ here in Korea, because obviously the children of pastors and missionaries don't always want to follow in their parents' footsteps.

38:26

Sometimes they want to remove themselves as far away from that activity as possible.

38:33

And that doesn't even necessarily mean that they're not Christians when they have that mindset. They just don't feel a calling to do that.

38:39

But if you could, tell us about Bruce Hunt's story in that regard. Yeah, that is a really good question.

38:47

And if I can, if we can hold that question, I will speak directly to that when

38:54

I get to sort of the climax of the story as I would like to tell it today.

39:01

Okay, we'll pick up where you would like to begin. Yeah, because it's tied to, yeah, he actually ends up sharing his testimony in a very powerful way, and he speaks to that in the book.

39:16

But yeah, so I gave a very short synopsis of Protestant missions, and it's a little bit of a point of humble pride if we can boast in the

39:31

Lord that the Korean Church is very strong. There's a large number of Koreans who are

39:39

Christians, and the Korean Presbyterian Church is also really strong. And part of that is because apparently at the outset of missions in Korea, it was primarily

39:49

Methodists and Presbyterians. And Bruce Hunt, his family, and the Moffat's and others were part of this group of missionaries working in what

40:01

I've tried to describe as pretty tough terrain. The one thing I can't go into detail about that I would just point your audience to is this is another thing that I did not know about Korea and the

40:12

Korean Church. But I think I haven't studied revivals in the 20th century, but I'd be pretty confident to say that the greatest, at least one of the greatest revivals of the 20th century actually occurred in Korea, and not just in Korea, but in Pyongyang.

40:33

And it happened in 1907. And the men that wrote the one book that I referenced,

40:42

William Blair and Bruce Hunt, were a part of that. And it's really an incredible story. I was even rereading it before I came on the show today.

40:49

And yeah, it will—if that doesn't stir your soul, then you should go talk to your pastor or your elders, or talk to Chris Arnton.

41:03

But anyway, so to give you a little bit of background, the Korean Church is growing.

41:11

There's missionaries there. Bruce Hunt is one of them. He grew up there. So fast forward from—we're talking about the early 1900s—now fast forward to 1941.

41:22

And obviously, World War II has begun in Europe.

41:30

Nazi Germany has invaded Poland. So there's already conflict in other parts of the globe.

41:38

And Bruce Hunt and his family are living in Harbin. It was then part of the independent area of Manchuria.

41:46

It was under the control of Japan. Japan was occupying. There was the war between China and Japan in the early 20th century.

41:58

And Japan is controlling that part of the country. So in many ways, Bruce Hunt had seen and experienced some pretty incredible things growing up in Korea, I think.

42:10

But in many ways, his life as a missionary was pretty ordinary.

42:16

Christian service, I think, in many respects. It's ironic. I thought it was really interesting that reading the story now—I read it in seminary, but now reading it as a pastor of a

42:26

Presbyterian church—the way that the authorities actually went about kind of tracking down the church and tracking down Bruce Hunt and others was they used their records, their sessional records of church decisions and membership and baptism and all of that.

42:45

So we think those things are really boring, and we pity and feel bad for the men who have to serve as the clerk of the session or do those kind of very administrative things.

42:56

But they can end up playing a big part. So here you have this family.

43:02

Bruce Hunt, he's a missionary. He's serving, he's preaching, he's teaching, he's discipling. And he's in Manchuria ministering to the

43:13

Korean -speaking population there. Anyway, so fast forward to October 1941.

43:21

And this is Korea, so it's pretty cold, even in October. And the

43:27

Hunt family is in their home around the dinner table.

43:33

At this point, they had some folks who were working in the household with them.

43:39

They had a Russian nanny, and there's a knock at the door, and the nanny goes to the door, and it's the police.

43:46

And the police come in, they basically say a few things, but it becomes clear to Bruce Hunt that he's being arrested.

43:56

And so he and his wife begin to get their things together. There were some other missionaries across the street,

44:03

Roy and Bertha Byram, who were also basically being served a warrant and being told that they were being arrested.

44:12

And it's sinking in for him that, okay, this is happening. There were indications that they were getting more scrutiny.

44:23

They were coming under more scrutiny from the government, and there was more opposition. He had been in conversation with the police before.

44:30

In fact, one of the officers was named Officer Pak, and he was basically a friend of the family.

44:36

They knew him pretty well. But the police are there, and they come in, and they're arresting Bruce Hunt. Well, I think it's a testimony to Bruce Hunt's character as a

44:47

Christian man and as a father and a husband, and I'll mention this. I think your audience will appreciate this. So he's getting arrested.

44:52

He's going to go off to jail. Who knows for how long? You can imagine how his wife felt about that, his wife,

44:58

Kathy. At this point, they have three daughters and a son, and before he leaves, he asks the officers if he can sit down and have family devotions.

45:14

So there's a plug right there for family worship, for all of those moms and dads who struggle to sit down and sing a hymn, read a scripture, and pray as a family, and it's not easy.

45:30

Think about Bruce Hunt about to be arrested, and what does he do? Well, he says, here's my family.

45:36

Here's my wife. We're going to have devotions before we leave, and they let him have family devotions. So you've got these police officers in the

45:46

Hunt's home, and they're all sitting around, and they have their family devotions. And wouldn't you know,

45:52

I can't confirm this, Chris, but by my best guess, well, he says in the book,

45:58

Bruce Hunt mentions that they sang Psalm 46. What better psalm to sing when you're about to be arrested and taken off to prison, right?

46:08

Praise God. And I thought it was interesting as an American, because this is, obviously, he loves the

46:17

Korean people. He loves his brothers and sisters in Christ in Korea, but I just thought it was so interesting as an

46:24

American. Bruce Hunt eventually does come back and live and retire in America. He passed away in 1992, so he lived to a ripe old age.

46:35

But here's their family sitting down, having devotions, surrounded by these police officers in a part of the country that was occupied by Japan, and they're singing

46:44

Psalm 46. And I looked up, and I'm pretty sure the tune that they sang to was called

46:50

Materna. And to most of your audience, that probably, it didn't really ring a bell for me.

46:56

But then when I looked it up and I played it, I thought, wow, that is so interesting. So the tune that they sang, most likely sang

47:03

Psalm 46 to, sounded something like this. And I don't know how this is going to come across, so bear with me.

47:14

Da -da -da -da -da -da -da -da -da. Wow. So the tune that they're singing,

47:22

Psalm 46 to, is Oh Beautiful for Spacious Skies. Yeah, America the

47:30

Beautiful, right? I just thought that was a very interesting note, you know, reading this story as an

47:38

American and considering some of the international dynamics at play here. And I think all of us, many of us, we love our country.

47:49

We are very patriotic, and that's not a bad thing, but it was a reminder to me, as I considered his story, here's this

47:56

American, part of the most powerful nation on earth, but serving as a missionary in a part of the world where that meant very little, because there were other people in charge, but he was serving the

48:08

King of Kings. And he was always perfectly protected and kept by him.

48:18

So he's arrested, he's transferred to a couple different locations and prisons, and he experiences the hardships of prison life.

48:33

He's in isolation. At the beginning, he's in kind of like a group situation.

48:39

He's kind of just in a big cell with many people, it's crowded, but you can imagine the conditions.

48:46

It wasn't very clean. The food is terrible, and as someone who loves food, that's the part of the story that really gets to me.

48:57

Most people can go like a couple days or something like that without a good meal, but to be in prison with no expectation of proper nutrition for a while, that really will weigh on you, right?

49:13

So he experiences, during his imprisonment, solitary confinement, food deprivation, and that starts to break you down.

49:24

But Bruce Hunt, he develops a routine, and he's doing exercises, he's singing all the hymns that he knows.

49:31

He even wrote a song in prison with a nickel that he had in his pocket, and he's doing everything he can to pray and to even minister to others in prison.

49:46

But it's hard, and I think it's a reminder that we need to be preparing ourselves and being good stewards.

50:01

Of course, not all of us are going to be missionaries, and very few of us are going to be called to experience what

50:06

Bruce Hunt did, obviously, but it's a reminder to be faithful in every regard because by God's grace,

50:15

Bruce Hunt persevered, but he also was doing things leading up to his imprisonment. He knew the scriptures, he knew the hymns, he had things in his heart that he was able to recall, and obviously, we believe by the power of the

50:27

Holy Spirit, too. So he's in prison, and he's arrested on October 22nd, and he has no idea how long it's going to be.

50:40

He gets transferred to a couple of different places, and then finally, finally, in early

50:46

December 1941, at the point where he's basically expecting to be in prison for months, if not years, he's brought before seven

50:55

Japanese judges, and he's finally told what he's arrested for, and it's for violating the law for control of religions.

51:09

And again, part of the just really short summary here of the context of what's going on, the

51:16

Japanese are enforcing emperor worship and a number of other things. They were really putting the screws to the

51:24

Christians and the churches and the missionaries, and they said no one could preach, for example, without a government permit.

51:34

That kind of reminded me of the 17th century England, you know, you had men like John Bunyan who wrote

51:42

Pilgrim's Progress, and yeah, so very different part of the world, different century, but what is the government doing?

51:51

They're trying to control the worship of God's people and the preaching of the word. So finally, they're brought before the judges, and they're told you're violating the law for control of religions, you know, you're gathering without permits, people aren't worshiping the emperor, and guess what the first question the judge asked him was?

52:14

I couldn't even guess. The first question the judge asked, isn't this really incredible, the first question he asked was, do you believe the serpent tempted

52:26

Eve in the garden? Wow, so he had these private curiosities about the

52:33

Bible and decided to ask that question. Yeah, so that's basically the summary, what you just said is really captures what happens in this encounter with these judges.

52:48

The judges had obviously read the Bible, some of them, they were very educated, and they knew various parts of the scriptures, so they asked him about, do you believe, you know, they're asking about the supernatural facts of the scriptures.

53:03

And we have to pick up where you left off there, brother, so when we return, pick up right where you left off, because we have to go to our midway break, please be patient with us, folks, it's the longer break in the middle of the show, because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1

53:18

FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of us a longer break in the middle of the show, because the FCC requires of them to localize this program and all of their programming geographically to Lake City, Florida, with their own public service announcements and other things that are local.

53:34

While they do that, we simultaneously air our globally heard commercials, please write down as much of the information that our advertisers provide as possible so that you can more frequently and successfully contact our advertisers.

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Don't go away, we're going to be right back after these messages. I'm Dr.

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Tony Costa, Professor of Apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary. I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak and have grown to love,

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It's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of God, like the dear saints at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Coram, who have an intensely passionate desire to continue digging deeper and deeper into the unfathomable riches of Christ in His Holy Word, and to enthusiastically proclaim

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I hope you also have the privilege of discovering this precious congregation and receive the blessing of being showered by their love, as I have.

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For more information on Hope Reform Baptist Church, go to HopeReformLI .net,

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that's HopeReformLI .net, or call 631 -696 -5711.

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That's 631 -696 -5711. Tell the folks at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island, New York that you heard about them from Tony Costa on Iron Sharpens Iron.

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When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the

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Here's a great way for your church to help keep Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air. Pastors, are your pew bibles tattered and falling apart?

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If you've watched my Dividing Line webcast often enough, you know I have a great love for getting Bibles and other documents vital to my ministry rebound to preserve and ensure their longevity.

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That's PTLBibleRebinding .com. Have you noticed the gap that exists between the

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It seems like it is nearly impossible to find good curriculum out there today that is true to the

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Every Christian who is serious about the Deformed Faith and the Westminster Standards should have and use the eight -volume commentary on the

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This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our

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01:09:28

Always make sure you mention Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. Before I return to my guest,

01:09:34

Pastor Jeremy Brandenburg of Redeemer Orthodox Presbyterian Church of Carlisle, Pennsylvania, and our discussion on Bruce Hunt, early 20th century, second -generation

01:09:46

Orthodox Presbyterian missionary to Korea, we have a couple of very important announcements to make.

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Send me that email to ChrisOrenson at gmail .com and put I need a church in the subject line if indeed you are in need of a church or someone you love is in need of a church, a good solid church anywhere on the planet

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Earth. That's also the email address where you can send in a question to Jeremy Brandenburg on Bruce Hunt, early 20th century second generation

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Orthodox Presbyterian missionary to Korea. Of course the question could be on missions in general, it could be on Reformed theology, it could be on the

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Orthodox Presbyterian denomination. Send that email to ChrisOrenson at gmail .com.

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If you could pick up where you left off, Jeremy. Sure. I'll also just mention that you mentioned one of your advertisers,

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I'm sure many of your audience know of the founder of the OPC, Jay Gresham Machen.

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It's Christmas time and I was looking up some information on his book, The Virgin Birth of Christ, and I think

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Solid Ground Books is the only, is the publisher of that book. So if you want to get

01:14:04

Machen's book on The Virgin Birth of Christ, you've got to get the Solid Grounds copy.

01:14:09

Great, that's Solid -Ground -Books .com. So we left off with Bruce Hunt had been in prison for about two months.

01:14:20

It's December, early December 1941, and here he is before the judges.

01:14:27

He's charged with basically violating this law for the control of religions because they're meeting without a permit and they're not supposed to.

01:14:36

And it's also worth pointing out, Chris, that they weren't just trying to –

01:14:41

I know people have very – a lot of faithful Christians have very different views about the civil government and how we interact with them and what we're supposed to do.

01:14:52

And Bruce Hunt, for his part, the missionaries he was working with, they had petitioned the government in advance of some of these laws being passed that, hey, if you do this, we can't comply because you're basically usurping the authority of God in our lives.

01:15:09

If you try to – we talk about the keys of the kingdom and the spiritual charter of the church.

01:15:16

When the government tries to take over worship, preaching, teaching the

01:15:21

Bible, administering baptism and the Lord's Supper and deciding who is a pastor and who is a church member, that's when church leaders need to say, no, you can't do that.

01:15:32

Only Jesus Christ can do that. And you can go this far, and you may go no farther.

01:15:41

But all that to say is they were – Bruce Hunt and those he was working with were taking pains to establish that they were good citizens.

01:15:49

They were not there to be a disruptive influence. They were orderly. They were civil. Their churches were people who, by and large, were lawful, law -abiding people seeking to honor

01:16:01

God and the civil government. And it was really important because one of the things –

01:16:08

I'm just going to mention two things about this encounter with the judges, this interaction.

01:16:14

It was really important that they had their character and their reputation to stand on because one of the things that they were challenged with by the judges was, well – and remember, realize there's a lot of other

01:16:27

Christians in this part of the world at that time. There's other churches.

01:16:32

There's other missionaries. There's different Korean Christian denominations and groups.

01:16:38

And one of the things that they were challenged with at this kind of pseudo trial was, well, there's other Christians who are bowing at the shrines.

01:16:45

Why don't you guys bow at the shrines? And I think those of us who like to think of ourselves as – we talk about in the

01:16:54

OPC, Machen's warrior children, which is both pejoratively and positively.

01:17:00

I like to use it in a positive sense. Those of us who like to think of ourselves as being zealous and earnest and wanting to fight the good fight, yeah, there are going to be

01:17:10

Christians who disagree about the time and the ways to resist the government and to stand up for our faith.

01:17:17

And there's going to be serious disagreements that are going to set us at odds with other believers, and those different stances are going to be apparent to those outside.

01:17:30

So in Manchuria, where Bruce Hunt was, it was obvious to the governing officials, okay, hey, there's people – you guys are saying you believe in Christ, you're

01:17:39

Christians, and you can't bow to the shrines. Well, why are these other Christians bowing to the shrines? Now, my position would be nobody should have been bowing to the shrines.

01:17:49

As a faithful believer, that's an act of idolatry. It's a violation of the second commandment.

01:17:56

But that's something that was thrown in their face and they were challenged with.

01:18:05

The other way that the judge challenged him, which when I read this in seminary,

01:18:10

I obviously read the whole book, and it really left a deep impact.

01:18:16

When I read this – when I reread this recently in preparation for using it, talking about it in a sermon, when

01:18:22

I read this portion, it really struck a nerve because it made me think about, you know, sadly, a lot of the ways that I think

01:18:35

Christians use Scripture against one another during the

01:18:40

COVID pandemic. Because this is what – with the judge, can you believe it? The judge actually challenged

01:18:47

Bruce Hunt and said, you know, you're actually not obeying God and you're not obeying

01:18:53

Scripture because the Bible says that everyone is to be subject to the higher powers. And he started quoting from Romans 13 to Bruce Hunt.

01:19:02

So imagine, you know, put yourself in the missionary's shoes. Here you are before a

01:19:08

Japanese judge being, you know, imprisoned for violating their laws and their ordinances.

01:19:15

And then he says, yeah, you're actually a bad Christian because you're not obeying the Bible. Now, you know,

01:19:22

Bruce Hunt came back and said, no, you actually – you have to read that whole passage because the whole passage says that the ruling authorities are there to punish evil and reward those who do good.

01:19:33

And, you know, he went on to defend their conduct and what they were doing and say that, you know, we have to submit to God.

01:19:41

We don't submit. We don't submit absolutely and without any qualification to the government.

01:19:50

So there's all this back and forth. And you asked the question earlier, Chris, about Bruce Hunt's testimony.

01:20:00

And it's very interesting because, like I said, this is not a formal trial.

01:20:06

It's an interview. It's an encounter with these judges. But it becomes – it morphs into this, you know, basically apologetical encounter contest for Bruce Hunt and the missionaries.

01:20:22

They're having to defend the Christian faith, and they end up talking about the end times. And then they really kind of have this back and forth over the fact of the resurrection.

01:20:33

And the judge, I think, asks them, how can you believe in something like that?

01:20:38

And he goes on to defend the resurrection. And I don't think any of the judges came to faith that day.

01:20:46

But what's really amazing is that after Bruce Hunt goes through all of this, and he's talking about basically laying out the gospel and the exclusivity of the claims of Christ and what the

01:21:00

Bible says about the resurrection, he looks around, and he sees that his interpreter is sitting there.

01:21:12

He's a Korean. His interpreter is a Korean. And he's sitting there, and his mouth is wide open.

01:21:19

Like, he's just aghast. He's just amazed. He's in awe of what Bruce Hunt is saying and how he's defending the

01:21:27

Christian faith. And he actually says to him later that that was wonderful. And I've never heard someone speak that way.

01:21:35

Apparently, even his parents were Christians, but he's never thought much of it. And Bruce Hunt ended up sharing about his own conversion.

01:21:46

He was raised a missionary. He lived in the church. He lived the missionary kid life.

01:21:52

But it wasn't until he was 19 that he actually was regenerated by the

01:21:58

Holy Spirit and came to trust in Christ himself and to experience the converting power of the

01:22:10

Holy Spirit. So he said that it wasn't until he was 19 that he came to faith and really began to take hold of the

01:22:20

Lord himself and to believe. So, yeah, that was his experience.

01:22:28

So what ended up happening was they had a suspended, not a suspended sentence, but a suspended judgment.

01:22:36

They were released from prison. And so this is like December 4, 1941.

01:22:43

And we all know what happened. Yeah, I was just going to say that you answered one of our listener questions.

01:22:50

Arnie in Perry County said, excuse me for tuning in late, but was his wife arrested with him?

01:22:58

And so you're saying they, I'm assuming you meant his wife as well, was arrested and imprisoned.

01:23:05

No, so his wife, Kathy Hunt, was not arrested with Bruce Hunt for some reason. They let her stay, maybe because of their children.

01:23:14

But there was another missionary couple with him, and they were arrested together. That couple, both the husband and wife were arrested?

01:23:24

Yes, the Byrams. Okay, pick up where you left off.

01:23:31

So they're released. They're given this suspended judgment and basically told, we're going to be watching you, and don't break the laws again.

01:23:43

But then they're brought before these military officers, these Japanese military officers, and they're told, you know, you go back to America and tell them how great

01:23:53

Japan is. Well, lo and behold, the war breaks out, and the Japanese, you kind of wonder if this

01:24:00

Japanese officer had a clue or had some understanding that the Japanese were about to attack

01:24:06

Pearl Harbor, because they get this suspended sentence, and it seems like, okay, we're going to live in this limbo, this state of limbo, wondering are we going to be able to do ministry and lead the church and preach and all this, and then war breaks out, and they end up – so what ends up happening is

01:24:27

Bruce Hunt is arrested again, and he doesn't go into detail about this in the book, and I wish he would have, but he's actually sent to a concentration camp for a short time, and then about six months later in June of 1941 – that would be

01:24:44

June of 1942, I guess – he's reunited with his family, and then they're sent back to the

01:24:52

United States through Africa in a prisoner exchange that's orchestrated through the diplomatic channels, and he's back in the

01:25:03

States, and eventually he does come back to Korea, but not for several years until after the war.

01:25:10

Okay, we'll take some listener questions. We have Susan Margaret in Dauphin County, Pennsylvania, who says, wouldn't you say that the very thing you are discussing today annihilates the arguments by anti -Calvinists that our theology is antithetical to missions?

01:25:38

Here you have a man willing to be arrested more than one time for his faith, and he did not just say,

01:25:47

Que sera, sera, God will save whom he will save. He knew that he had to obey

01:25:52

Christ in being an evangelist and a missionary, that God uses means to bring about his saving purposes.

01:26:05

Yeah, absolutely. I think he is a great example of – and not just Bruce Hunt, but the others with him, and even the way they went about discipleship in Korea, these guys were

01:26:18

Presbyterian. Like I said, they had sessions, they kept records and minutes, and they were all about decency and good order in the church, so these were dyed -in -the -wool

01:26:30

Presbyterians, but they were also fervent evangelists. They were also very zealous in discipleship, so I think their biblical reform convictions about the sovereignty of God and salvation is really what bolstered them and upheld them.

01:26:50

Think about being in prison for the gospel and enduring all of these things.

01:27:00

How do you persevere through that? Well, it's through the power of Christ and also just believing that all of these things are in God's hands and that he is the one who's sovereignly in control of your life and all of the believers that you're called to minister to.

01:27:17

We have Joseph in South Central Pennsylvania who said, in addition to the very solid churches in Korea that uphold the

01:27:29

Reformed faith, I know that there is also, sadly, quite a number of extreme, charlatan,

01:27:38

Pentecostal works there. I'm not talking about the very

01:27:44

God -honoring folks that many of us know who are in the Pentecostal and Charismatic camps, but I'm talking about the extreme versions of the

01:27:54

Word of Faith movement and the insanity that goes on in some wings of the

01:28:00

Pentecostal and Charismatic movements that have really taken root in Korea. I was wondering if you knew anything about, percentage -wise, who has more of a stronghold there in Korea, the

01:28:13

Reformed witness or this fringe Pentecostal group? Yeah, I really can't speak to that with any substantial knowledge, but the only thing

01:28:29

I can say is that I know that there, over the course of the history of the Presbyterian and Reformed church in Korea, there were several splits.

01:28:37

And so my own denomination, we're fairly small within the camp of American Reformed and Presbyterian churches, and I think it's a similar dynamic.

01:28:50

There's a whole spectrum of churches in Korea, and I can't speak in detail to what the questioner is asking, but I would surmise that they're the minority.

01:29:03

They're in the minority in Korea. Which one? The Reformed. Oh, okay.

01:29:09

Wow, that's sad. Because wasn't there a time when they were dominating the

01:29:15

Christian scene there? Yeah, I think there was, but my guess is that today they're just kind of one part of the overall landscape of the evangelical church.

01:29:30

They're apparently the biggest church in the world is in Korea, or at least that's what I was told several years ago.

01:29:35

There are some really huge kind of broad evangelical churches in Korea, but I think the

01:29:44

Reformed and Presbyterian churches is a minority within that big evangelical camp.

01:29:56

We have Christopher, Western Suffolk County, Long Island, New York.

01:30:03

And Christopher says, I don't know if you know anything about Japan, but I was wondering why

01:30:11

Japan has such a tiny percentage of Christians there, and the other

01:30:16

Asian nations, even those that are very harsh against Christianity due to communism and other factors, are flourishing, even if the underground movement.

01:30:32

But Japan seems to be almost a desolate wasteland when it comes to the

01:30:37

Christian faith. Do you have any ideas? Have you ever heard of anybody with knowledge explaining this to you?

01:30:48

Yeah, that's a great question, and I have the same question myself, because even in my very limited familiarity with the church in Japan, I have a friend from seminary who's a missionary in Japan, and the

01:31:02

OPC has affiliations with some folks who are missionaries in Japan, but it is a very difficult country in terms of Christian outreach and gospel witness.

01:31:17

That is strange, because there's no persecution that I know of there against Christians, and it's very bizarre.

01:31:27

In fact, years ago, when I was broadcasting out of WNYG Radio in Babylon, Long Island, a woman from Japan who listened to the program wrote to me, thanking me for a program

01:31:43

I did exposing the heresies and lies of the

01:31:49

Muni cult, and she said that she was led to Christ out of the

01:31:59

Munis through listening to and reading the works of my friend

01:32:05

Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries, and she was involved in an arranged marriage with the

01:32:14

Muni cult, and after she and her husband left that cult, they remained married, but she was lamenting that they could not find a biblically -based church anywhere near them, even remotely near them, and the only thing that was available to them was a

01:32:31

Roman Catholic church, and she did not feel at all comfortable going to that church, and I wouldn't recommend that she go to that church either.

01:32:42

So, it is a shame. Yeah, and it's not for lack of sending missionaries.

01:32:49

I mean, there have been many missionaries for a long period of time who've gone to Japan, but it is, for whatever reason, in the

01:32:58

Lord's wisdom, it is a very difficult country, and it's, like you said, not openly hostile.

01:33:07

I mean, there was persecution. There were actually originally some, I believe it was

01:33:13

Jesuit missionaries who were killed in Japan. There's a lot that's been written about that, even a movie that was produced recently.

01:33:22

Yeah, I saw the movie. I think it was called The Missionary, if I'm not mistaken, but that was quite a while ago.

01:33:30

Right, right, but in recent times, it's not a country that's persecuting the church.

01:33:36

Even in Bruce Hunt's time, Christianity was an officially recognized religion, along with Shintoism and Buddhism.

01:33:45

But it's almost like just a kind of apathy towards the Christian faith. Now, where did

01:33:52

Bruce Hunt spend the final years of his life? Was he still in Korea?

01:33:58

Was he here in the United States? So he, I can't give you a really detailed breakdown, but I know that he died in the

01:34:09

United States in 1992. So he did end up retiring and coming back to the

01:34:17

U .S. Well, he wouldn't have been really coming back to the U .S., because that's not where he was born.

01:34:24

Well, yeah, from our perspective, coming back home, but you're right, yeah.

01:34:32

And we have to go to our final break right now. If you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own for Jeremy Brandenburg, our email address again is chrisarmson at gmail .com.

01:34:43

C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com. As always, give us your first name at least, your city and state, and your country of residence.

01:34:51

Don't go away. We'll be right back with Jeremy Brandenburg right after these messages. James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries here.

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Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, CVBBS .com. They just experienced a loss, a family member has gone on to glory, to spend eternity with Christ, and for Christians that's always a bittersweet experience.

01:48:36

It could be traumatic and just as devastating on the one hand as many people who lose loved ones outside of Christ, but at the same time there is that blessing of knowing that that person is spending an eternity with Christ and that they would not trade places with any of us at all.

01:49:04

So, well at the same time, as I said, this is a time of mourning and grief, and I would appreciate it if you would extend your condolences to the folks at CVBBS .com

01:49:19

and tell them that you are praying for them as they journey into this period of mourning and sadness and grief after losing a precious loved one.

01:49:32

That's CVBBS .com. We have a statement, not a question, from someone who has been a guest on this program and a co -host,

01:49:44

Charlie Liebert, who is the founder of 6daycreation .com. He says, he's responding to our brief discussion on Japan and why there are so few biblically sound

01:50:01

Christians and Christian churches in Japan. That was something that a listener had brought up in a question, and Charlie says, the

01:50:11

Japan problem is a culture steeped in ancestor worship which throws up big barriers.

01:50:18

Well, I'm sure that is a part of the problem, but for some reason, in God's sovereignty, those barriers are overcome in places like Africa, who has some very bizarre religions of their own there, idolatrous and false religions, and yet there are nations within the continent of Africa that are thriving with a

01:50:44

Christian witness. I don't know if you have anything further to add to that, Pastor Jeremy. I don't, other than to say hi,

01:50:53

Charlie, and thanks for the comment. Okay, Charlie, I hope you're enjoying the program.

01:50:59

I want you, before I take any other listener question, I want you to have several minutes uninterrupted so you can summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today about our topic, and even bring up things that you wanted to say that we have not yet addressed about this great missionary of church history.

01:51:24

Yeah, well, thanks for that. One thing I wanted to say was how it's very touching that Bruce Hunt, in his preface to the book, he's very humble, and he speaks of those who were in prison with him, and he mentions a couple of folks by name who ended up dying in prison, and he also mentions those who, after Korea split and the

01:51:52

Northwest Communists and the South was free and open, there were those

01:51:59

Christians, those Korean Christians who decided they had the opportunity to leave, but they stayed in North Korea, many of them hoping that the period of communism would be short -lived.

01:52:09

Well, it's almost 2023 here, and North Korea is still very much a totalitarian state, extremely hostile to the

01:52:20

Christian faith and church, and he says many of those Christians died. And these are the kind of folks that, when you think of the scriptures, they're the kind of folks that really,

01:52:35

I think, fit the characterization in Hebrews of those of whom the world was not worthy.

01:52:42

Bruce Hunt, I think he recognizes he was blessed, he was fortunate God enabled him to serve for many years, and then he was able to come back and write about the believers that he loved and taught and discipled.

01:52:56

And he writes with deep gratitude, and I think it's a reminder of what I would want every listener to be reminded of is the need to realize our place in the body of Christ, that we're all united together by faith, we're one people, we rejoice together, and we should weep together.

01:53:18

And reading these kinds of stories and thinking on the church in Korea and the things that have happened there in the past should make you think of things that are going on now in other parts of Asia and parts of Africa.

01:53:32

We actually had a missionary, and not a missionary, but we learned of in our denomination someone in an

01:53:39

African country in eastern Africa who was imprisoned and was put to death for his faith.

01:53:47

So I would want all of us to continue to pray for the persecuted church, pray for believers in hard places, and also to consider how is

01:54:01

God moving in your life, and how has he empowered you and equipped you to serve where you are and to support and pray for missionaries?

01:54:10

Maybe you're not called to go, but you can pray for those who are going. And since we're on the topic of missions, one other thing

01:54:20

I'd say is just that we all should consider our call. And yeah, we need more missionaries, so pray to the

01:54:28

Lord of the Harvest to raise up men and women to go and serve in difficult places.

01:54:35

Now let's just say someone in your own congregation asks to meet with you, and this person says,

01:54:45

I have a burden on my heart to be a missionary, and he may pick a foreign country.

01:54:53

He may not. He may just say he'll go where he is sent. But what would be things that you and your fellow elders would look for in a member of the church that you think would make them qualified for such a huge step in their lives?

01:55:12

There may be people who have a romantic understanding of missionary work.

01:55:19

They've never even left the shores of this country and maybe just have a vivid imagination that has been fueled by stories they've heard and movies they've seen.

01:55:35

And we could go on and on, but they may be totally unqualified. And they may be the last person that you would want to send as an ambassador for Christ anywhere, even next door perhaps, let alone overseas.

01:55:50

So what would be some of the qualifications that you would be looking for? I think the primary thing is faith.

01:55:59

And is this a person who really knows and loves the Lord deeply and truly?

01:56:05

And are they active in the church now? Are they seeking to serve? Are they desiring to grow in their faith?

01:56:13

There's many things that we would think of as qualifications for mission work. And I'll share just one really quick story about William Blair, the co -author with Bruce Hunt of that book,

01:56:23

The Korean Pentecost. He said that the missionary, Reverend Moffat, came to his school where he was studying and challenged him very seriously about taking the call to mission seriously.

01:56:38

And he thought, well, I can't do this. I can't learn the languages. And that's really not a priority because, yes, you have to have some aptitude, but really the primary thing is faith.

01:56:49

Do you believe in the Lord Jesus Christ? Do you love him? Do you want to serve him?

01:56:55

All of those other things are important. But what I would look for most of all is someone whose heart and mind are totally devoted and submitted to the

01:57:04

Lord. Well, I would assume that there might be other factors such as someone who relies too heavily on what they call preacher comforts that might disqualify him from being sent out.

01:57:21

But somebody who is known for his love of earthly possessions, you know, all these kinds of things that might indicate that they wouldn't fare well overseas unless they are being somehow lavished with luxury in the nation where they are sent.

01:57:42

But if you follow what I'm saying, there could be other factors involved. Yes, I agree.

01:57:49

I think those things all should come into play, but I'll give you a military analogy, a military comparison.

01:57:55

So it's been said by many and observed by many that on the battlefield, oftentimes those officers and soldiers who are most intense and most serious in training scenarios, you get to the battlefield and they wither.

01:58:10

So sometimes the people who make the best missionaries appear on the surface to be the least qualified and the least capable to go and serve.

01:58:21

Interesting. Well, I want to make sure our listeners have your website for Redeemer Orthodox Presbyterian Church of Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

01:58:29

It's RedeemerOPC .org. RedeemerOPC .org.

01:58:35

I want to thank you for doing such a wonderful job today, Pastor Jeremy. I look forward to your return to the program.

01:58:42

I also look forward to having another time of face -to -face fellowship with you at some point in the future.

01:58:49

I think the last time we did that was at the Banner of Truth Conference in Elizabethtown, Pennsylvania. And I hope that something comes up by the providence of God where we can share a meal soon and share a good time of fellowship and even some laughs.

01:59:06

I look forward to that too, and thanks so much for having me on. And once again, that's RedeemerOPC .org.

01:59:13

RedeemerOPC .org. And also, remember the book by J.

01:59:20

Gresham Machen on Christmas that Pastor Jeremy mentioned. Remember to go to solid -ground -books .com

01:59:27

and order that book, perhaps even multiple copies to give out as gifts. That's solid -ground -books .com.

01:59:34

Make sure you mention Chris Lorenzen of Iron Sheriff and Zion Radio. I want to thank everybody who listened today. I hope you all have a safe and joyful and Christ -honoring weekend and Lord's Day.

01:59:44

And I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than you are a sinner.