Why Theology? :: Do We Have Free Will?

The Apologetic Dog

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What is up guys, my name is KJ and this is why theology now we got a big enough to make.

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So if you guys don't know I know I've been gone for two weeks, took a step back to kind of focus on schoolwork and like the

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Lord and family, but now I'm back and so I actually got to introduce a special guest his name is a passenger

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Maya, and he's actually now my co host. And so you might go. It's a man.

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Well, hello again everybody. My name is Jeremy nor tear. I serve at 12 five church in Jonesboro, Arkansas, and I've really enjoyed getting to know

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UKJ and just being able to contend for the faith together. It's been fun man

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I know when I pass this first made each other they said that we're both very similar so it's kind of cool. I mean, I connected, and now we're co hosting the other some more material out there guys, we can be talking about many topics, you know, that kind of leads us to our topic today.

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I forgot how we even got this topic, I think I forgot what I actually take you something like that and we do my free will.

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So we were, we were planning about a number of upcoming topics, and you mentioned, yeah, it'd be good to talk about free wills like up when you absolutely have to have me on that because I've spent years trying to have a better grasp of what the

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Bible teaches when it comes to man's choices. I know a lot of times to we think about like you know the reform community or like people who say they're

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Calvinist or just simply believe in God sovereignty like this is one of those issues kind of like people kind of divide over.

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And hopefully maybe we can kind of bridge that gap back together, if we kind of just teach what the Bible says. I know like when people think about you know

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Calvinism again like a reformed theology I think that you know if someone believes that God is sovereign. That means that man is not free.

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Well, the Bible doesn't teach that the Bible teaches that God is sovereign and that man is free and so today, me and Jeremiah can kind of be dealing with that.

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So let's go ahead and get started man was um, I guess, you know, we got two words put together we got free, and we got will so the word the word is free will so I guess, how would you define free man.

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So, the studying this topic, there's really two definitions that we have to be familiar with.

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When we're talking about free will. You could be talking about we're going to use some confusing terms but it's so important to qualify what we mean by free will because whatever your theological framework is you should be able to affirm, yes, we do have free will.

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But what do you mean when you say that so one definition is referred to as libertarian free will one pack that in a moment and I've also heard people call that contra causal free will, we'll talk about what the ability to choose to do otherwise means but that's, that's essentially number one libertarian free will.

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And then you have this other really good way of understanding free will and it's a compatible ballistic free will, and it's really contending for the truth that there is not a contradiction between God being absolutely sovereign over his creation having perfect knowledge of the future and everything that that would entail, and saying that man legitimately is free to choose according to his heart's desire so libertarian free will compatibilistic or compatibilism free will.

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Now, I guess before we get there, I guess you probably help us with this, how can we define the wheel like I guess in that in itself so like I said we got them two words put together free.

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And then you got will. I looked it up, you know, I'm pretty sure that you get to know me I've said it many times in my podcast episodes and my favorite the legends.

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Jonathan Edwards like Charles Spurgeon Calvin all these guys but like Edwards is always one of my favorites. And so you guys know

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Edwards has an entire book about this, dealing with this called freedom of the will you guys know

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Martin Luther has a book called you know the bondage of the will but Edwards is the freedom of the will and so he kind of,

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I guess defines the free was this he says the mind choosing. And so what he's talking about is that the mind and the will that kind of go together.

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You can't like inseparable or they're kind of related in a sense. And so we don't make moral choices today without the mind approving the kind of directions of those choices.

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And so it's kind of, I guess, close to what the Bible says to about the conscious that we have in the mind to make moral decisions or choices.

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And so like, I guess we could think about like this so like when we become aware of certain options that like if I guess the options presented before us.

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And like the mind is inclined to, I guess, make another, I guess the option in front of us, but I guess more than another one we choose kind of the strongest desire in that moment in a sense that's kind of Edwards kind of defined.

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What would you say. Yeah, so let's talk about those two words free and then will and I think

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I agreed wholeheartedly with everything of what you meant by will. Simply choosing the power of choice and from a natural human perspective, you can have option

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A and option B and you have the natural human capacities to choose a or b in that moment right now we'll get into do we have the moral option to choose a or b are we able to choose a or b and give glory to God.

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Well, Jesus mentioned, I believe it's in john eight that we are slaves to sin.

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So there's a bondage to our will that we must affirm to some degree and there's debate on to, to what that looks like exactly but the

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Bible does teach that our will is enslaved to sin. And you and I've talked about how

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Roman six talks about we're either a slave to sin or a slave to righteousness so we do really need to understand that our will, whatever that may look like our ability to choose is constrained by our human nature.

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We can't choose to fly. That's just not in the cards, right. So we have to understand we're a human being.

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And then we're also moral agents, what does that look like spiritually and that's where the Bible is going to inform our presuppositions because before coming to Christ it sure seemed like I could choose whatever

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I wanted to do. And this is where, when the scripture speaks, we lean not on our own understanding.

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We start with God's revelation his truth. And then we begin to build our worldview our understanding of truth from that so I want to start with will there

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I think the ability to think and make choices everything you said that's perfect. Now we get to the word free. In what sense does free mean and this not to me, how you answer this will will pretty much choose whether you'll be in that libertarian camp or that compatibilistic camp.

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So, I was looking at Proverbs 16 nine to me this is this is almost explicitly what the compatibilistic free will stances is trying to get at the heart of a man plans his way.

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But the Lord Yahweh establishes the steps. So, I would say compatibilistic free will says we are free to choose whatever our heart desires, but we're not free apart from God's sovereignty in his for ordination.

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Now compatible. Then you have like we were saying libertarian free well this is a different idea and understanding

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I think it breaks down I don't think it can be fully consistent in light of all of what the scripture reveals and the whole council

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God. But basically this gets at God does not have an eternal decree that God has not for ordained whatsoever comes to pass, and I think they appeal to mystery that God is all knowing, even before the foundation of the world

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I'm already thinking well from God's sovereign viewpoint. It's going to happen how the

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Trinity God, the Father, Son, Holy Spirit counseled. Hopefully we get into a few verses of what that looks like.

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And, and I don't understand. I think I understand where they're coming from but I think there's a there's a breakdown.

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Does man have the ability to choose and whatever given moment that he wants to do apart from God's omniscience apart from God's all encompassing sovereignty, and like, like we're going to get into I think the

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Bible tells us that no it is compatible both can be true and they're not contradictory to one another. So what

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I'm saying man I think about this too I think R .C. Sproul was I think he says on the lines of like only God is the one ultimately free, and like kind of what you just said, and that proverbs like you know man play the step of God directs it.

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I think you can go a little bit farther down in Proverbs 16 talks about how like the man kind of like throws dice night, the

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Lord is where I'm putting a guy can modern terms but he determines what number kind of rolls out in a sense.

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And I you see that like everything is fixed in a sense but like does that truly eliminate you know the free will that we have in a sense, but the question is, you know, what is this free will and so I guess what help us as well is that, um,

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I guess we can narrow it down like this I'm see if you agree with this would you say that, like the ability to make decisions right or choices.

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So far, yes. Okay, so not kind of what you just said like people assume because you know free will is able to make choices.

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And that means that we can determine in a sense our own lives in a sense, someone you guys know the logical term called determinism, it basically means that we can determine our own lives because we have free will right

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God made us in his image with the ability to make decisions right. I'm sure like I don't I don't know what your mind likes my favorite ice cream and strawberry and so I had a choice.

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I really like strawberry ice cream right. My favorite basketball teams and Lakers. I had a choice to like the

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Lakers right. I've been Jeremiah's as well so I had a choice to like those things right.

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But, you know, kind of, how would you kind of define that man like a determinism and kind of like how we have choices to kind of like you know, yeah.

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So, in the world of philosophy, if you're going to adopt a deterministic worldview you really have two options.

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One is referred to as a soft determinism and one is more of a hard determinism and I know critics of Calvinism will basically say there's no distinction without a difference there but I really think there is a soft determinism is more of this compatibilistic notion that we're contending for that both

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God can be sovereign and man be responsible for his decisions. Hard determinism really removes man's desire and inward volition to really want that ice cream because it tastes good.

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A robot that's programmed to do something that would be a hard determinism, because that robot is doing what it's programmed to do but it doesn't really have desire and doesn't have that compassion or or choice to really want something.

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And we're saying, God is powerful enough right he's omnipotent to create a world to have eternal decree with volitional creatures, so KJ really likes the ice cream when he chooses it but that doesn't negate that it was ordained to come to pass exactly how

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God planned it. Kind of add to that. So essentially kind of what you're saying is that even though God is sovereign he's not.

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Of course we know he fixes all these things but he's not fixing the way that it makes us robots and they're like we're totally having like not a mind in a

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But now this gets into the question well we're going to say that you know God you know he allowed us to have free will and why can't we choose him.

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You do it. Yeah. Yeah, because it's funny. There's so many thoughts that come first in mind because here in a second,

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I'll let you kind of guide this but we will talk about Adam and Eve in the garden free fall. I think that matters, but we have a sin nature we all died in Adam we have a constituent sinful nature that has marred our thinking that's why no one seeks after God.

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God has to first begin that work in us regenerate our heart, give us that conviction of our sin and a desire for our need of Jesus so God in essence grants us repentance and faith.

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It's not that he brings us kicking us in screaming against our will but he changes our will.

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So that's why we need the Holy Spirit to move on main first in order for us to receive the gospel.

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That's, that's probably first what I would say what do you think about that. I'm thinking to the kind of like Martin Luther's book like I said the bondage of the wheel we're talking about something called the wheel, and like the wheel, like I said is related to the mind so whatever we're thinking in the sense, in that moment, the strongest as I were going to, you know, pick that.

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And so kind of what you just say because of what happened in the garden, the will by nature as in bondage the sin and so now, before we became

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Christians the wheel was like slave to sin like you like Jesus taught us in john eight says and you were dead in your sins.

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Either Paul was lying or you're telling the truth and so I'm the truth because he was under the inspiration of the

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Holy Spirit right. And so we know that like kind of like you just said Jesus tell us we're a slave to the sin and so the will is in bondage.

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So all the decisions we're making even though they're free. We're freely choosing these things the will is in bondage and so we're choosing freely to sin.

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And so like when you get to heaven, God's not going to say you know I force you to sin so I'm still gonna throw you to hell he's gonna say no you freely chose to do those things.

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And so that's kind of a lot of people kind of get confused I guess like in this Calvinistic. Like I said, because people like, you know,

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Calvinism from theology holds you know the servants of God they say well, it doesn't make sense how you can have both know free will, and also

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Calvinism and putting together either as one or the other. But that's not what the Bible teaches us. But before we even get there.

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Let's kind of do what kind of just talked about, you know, was it was Adam and Eve free in the garden. No pre fall.

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So, I was gonna say, I would affirm, Adam and Eve pre fall, and even all of mankind after the fall we have free will but those free wills do look a little different.

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They had the freedom to choose without the marred perception of sin.

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And really that's all I say, because this is, this is what we mean you talked about the other day.

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So, when Adam and Eve look at looked at the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. They had the free will choice to engage with it and be disobedient make a simple choice, or they had the ability to choose not to be obedient to God, that doesn't negate

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God having a purpose of having the tree there, permitting the devil to tempt them.

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And we realized that God is accomplishing plan a Jesus is the lamb slain before the foundation of the world.

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So even their free will that wasn't marred by sin does it doesn't negate the sovereignty of God.

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And the only difference I would make with Adam and Eve pre fall, and then mankind after the fall is then you take the unregenerate man after the fall, and he has the ability, let's think of a moral choice, you can walk someone across the street.

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That from a human perspective looks good, or you can choose to hatefully turn your back, and, you know, you know, not help that person they'd say, that'd be bad.

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Well for the unregenerate man, either option A or B is still sinful before God.

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That's probably the major distinction with Adam and Eve pre fall but both pre fall post fall doesn't negate

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God's all encompassing sovereignty. I add to that to kind of what you just said because it reminds me of a theological term that we know is civic virtue,

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R .C. Sproul talks about this in the systematic theology class so kind of what you said civic virtue is a sense it's like, let's say for example, the speed in the

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Bible tells us to obey the laws of the land and so at times, you see people really obeying that on the street that you're driving interstate and so the speed limit may say 75 and people going 75 right, but as an unbeliever you know if the

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Bible tells us that only you know his children can obey him. Why does it seem as though people you know who are lost can obey

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God's word. Well in that moment, they're selfishly obeying that for a profit reasons, not for because God says to his word, but in that moment, it may be rooted for something selfish.

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I may be obeying this law because I don't want a ticket and I might have spent money but it's not because I don't want to, you know,

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I don't want to obey God because what says in his word so it's called civic virtue, kind of what you just said.

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Now we think about this, kind of what I say why the will is in bondage to sin is because like you just said

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Adam and Eve, their minds wasn't, you know, in bondage to sin pre fall, but us the man today.

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We are in bondage to sin they had like the choices we make are rooted in sin. And so it's kind of unique right there man.

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And I wanted to give the audience a verse when I said that it doesn't matter what the under generate man chooses to do a or b it's still simple before God.

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One verse that I feel like is explicitly clear is Romans 14 verse 23 for whatever does not proceed from faith is sin.

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So you can do all these humanly good acts all sinful before God because it must be rooted in faith to glorify

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God in truth. Right, the triune God and the second person of the Trinity, Jesus Christ who took on flesh.

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So if you're not doing something to glorify the true God, well then it's there's sinful motives there you have motives to really push yourself up boast and what you can do and show off before other people, but the fact that we even make moral decisions because we bear the image of God we are the

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Imago Dei. Right, but we are a marred image of God. Right.

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Definitely unique man. And so like, even with that man like if unbeliever were to go to, you know, a biblically sound church, and they're, you know, worshiping quote unquote, and you know, in the

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Lord's day or you know at church, however you want to say it, that even that worship is sinful because like you said is not rooted in faith that worship is really probably an idolatry not even worship probably the triune

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God is probably a God that they have created. Now, here's a question for you, Jermiah and I guess for myself, can someone who holds to the doctrine of God's sovereignty as we've been discussing, and still hold to free will.

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We kind of already hinted at it but how would you deal with this? Well, it depends how you define

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God's sovereignty, and it depends what you mean by free will. I feel like I had these passages flip to if we define

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God's sovereignty, I would contend for being the biblical understanding that God rules and reigns over every aspect of his creation, that he is in the heavens, he is free to do whatever he wills on heavens above, or on the earth below that's all encompassing.

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And if we double down and say that God is omniscient he is all knowing before the foundation of the world.

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That's the sovereignty, I want to contend for hopefully your audience when I hear me just kind of write off those truths hopefully you hear the

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Bible passages that rightly reflect those things. And so Ephesians chapter one, this is to me one of those inescapable places that I would go to to contend for the sovereignty of God.

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And before I get into it, it's verse 11 but if you have that view of God's sovereignty this all encompassing that God has meaning and purpose in every aspect of life.

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Then the only free will that is, quote unquote, compatible with that is this compatible understanding that okay

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I'm free to choose what I want to do, but I'm not free apart from that understanding of God's sovereignty.

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So if you have that Calvinistic sovereignty, Augustine understanding right we've talked about church history and past episodes.

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If we had this Augustinian understanding of God's sovereignty, then the only possible free will would be compatibilism.

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So I just want to submit that to you but if you, and what I see in a lot of Baptist culture is the opposite, they want to start with this contra causal free will this libertarian freedom that says that I'm free to do otherwise and God is basically is not sovereign in that moment and I've heard of a man named

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Layton flowers, which I want to say I think he is a brother in Christ, and I actually enjoy listening to his material because it sharpens me and he this is a man trying to rightly handle the scripture so I actually appreciate his ministry, and so I just want people to hear that.

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But what I, what I fail to understand is how, if God knows everything and then chose a particular world.

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And that's the one that's going to come to pass, then I can't understand how

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God is not sovereign, let me back up what I see that as in that moment of somebody choosing to receive

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Jesus well that would entail that God is not sovereign. In that moment, light and flower says, well, a king can be sovereign over his land but he doesn't have exhaustive knowledge and doesn't, you know, decree them to do

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X, Y, and Z I'm saying yes, because that is not a one to one comparison of what a sovereign earthly king looks like to the sovereign king of kings over the universe.

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My swing this back over to you but then we get into this understanding, we got to understand the distinction between the creator and the creation.

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Now you asked me a good question we talked about this earlier kind of, I think it kind of puts it in perspective so you got to refresh my memory but it's something like,

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I think you said where Adam and Eve, how did you kind of how did you were the Do you remember, I think you said Adam and Eve freedom or something like that.

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Adam and Eve possessed free will that was compatible with God sovereignty, but their free will was not marred by a sin nature, they could have from a human perspective chose a not to either the tree of knowledge of good and evil and that would have been glorifying the

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God, or they could have chose B. And which they did right simple,

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I'm saying, fallen man, the unregenerate man does not have that option, they can choose a or B, and either one of them is sinful before God.

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Yeah, so I think you, I think that's what it was the question you asked I think you asked you know Adam and Eve freedom to guard and I think my response was like, well it depends on what we're talking about so like for example, yeah, humans perspective

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I would say yes, they had free will, like can we just define, but then I would say from God's perspective he was sovereign even over the decision right.

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So it was fixed to happen in a certain way. The world I guess the reality that happened that it did in fact happen.

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It was fixed because God ordained this stuff to happen, like even with the cross for example that wasn't plan B that was plan

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A God always had this plan happen. Like you said, allowing the devil to come in a garden to tempt

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Eve and allow these things to happen. God had a plan. But now, as we're dealing with this.

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It wasn't as though I think first john chapter two says that God is light, and there's no darkness.

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Isaiah 45 or six I believe it says that, you know, I'm the Lord who created, you know, light and darkness

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I form calamity and well being. I do, I'm the Lord does all these things. He just one verse for like you said that you know they'll talk about predestined things.

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Proverbs 16, all these things we see God is sovereign, but it's still in the realm of like a free well

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I think the best example we have is Pharaoh for example, the Bible talks about how God hardened his heart. But does that mean that God forced him to do those things that mean that God forced out of a need to sin in the garden.

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No, because we know that again, we have, of course, you already made a distinction between know unbelievers and Adam and Eve, but we see this distinction that God is sovereign in the choices that we make but it doesn't eliminate the choices that we do make.

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It'll make it says out there. And I agree with that like God is not the author of sin, he does not force good people to do bad things and that's really the fundamental thing we have to understand the depravity of man is that we do not seek

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God we run the opposite direction. But let me begin articulate this KJ because this actually helped me leaps and bounds, and is understanding the creator creation distinction.

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So what I'm getting at is God's ability to make choices is not one to one the same how created man makes decisions.

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God is eternal absolute transcendent. So that's why he is all knowing, that's why his omniscient he knows things absolutely in that light, like you said, so man, we may have some knowledge of things we make choices but that is a reflection of God.

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So think about this, and Charles Spurgeon had an analogy that didn't like that much.

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I love Spurgeon right, but I thought the analogy is one of a synergistic understanding of man and God, and not a monergistic one.

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And so he had this idea that if you look at train tracks, you have one side of the train track, going straight, and the other ones parallel beside it, and then they somehow converge and touch in eternity.

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Two things and I feel like I'm in good company with R .C. Sproul also did not like this analogy.

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He said, well, if they're parallel then they never touch not even in eternity. Now I thought that's a good point because we don't want to parallel the eternal absolute will and choice of God with with created man that's not being intellectually honest or representative of the scripture.

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However, if God's choice is both sides of the train track, and then man's choices somewhere in the middle, right contingent on God.

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Remember in Acts 17, in God we live and move and have our being. We are contingent, created, finite.

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God is the opposite of that in a sense, right? He's absolute, eternal. And so if we just let

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God be God, and his decisions belong to him alone, well then it's all going to compatibilistically come together.

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So, God is the one with libertarian free will to create a world to have a plan of redemption to the father to choose a bride for the son.

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This is electing a people that do not deserve salvation. That means that the son can be the perfect savior to all that the father has given him.

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And then the Holy Spirit, God the Holy Spirit is able to regenerate that bride and to seal them to the day of redemption.

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This is a Trinitarian gospel of grace. So, if we say

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God is free to do that, well then that's basically made the argument for us because that would entail all of man's free desires to choose, right within that unfolding plan.

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So there's a compatibilism there and you just, you got to let man's will be limited and finite and creaturely, and you got to let

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God's will be infinite, absolute, and sovereign. I think we talked about this on Monday as well that, for example, like, you know, our wills now as believers, you know, we're bound, you know, to obey the

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Lord, but like God is bound by his own nature. But that's a good thing because there is nothing above God.

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He is the standard and it's like you said, he is the one ultimately who has the free will that people kind of talk about as far as like determinism in a sense.

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God can determine whatever he pleases, but it's within his own nature, which is a good thing, like I said, if we know that God is holy.

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Now, I guess, what's the purpose of all this? Like if all this is, you know, true and biblically, you know, accurate, you know, why study this?

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You know, is it really important to be talking about free will? Well, this is personal.

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When I started to grapple with the doctrines of grace, and then basically seeing how these five points of Calvinism is grounded in the biblical truth that God is sovereign the way that we've been talking about, it literally changed everything for me.

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Because I started seeing life as my life in particular is one by the grace of God.

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Everything that now I'm doing, God is working in me, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

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And so it's for my sanctification, all things are working together for the good of those that love him and who are called according to his purpose.

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It changed the way that I read the Bible, because I saw God's sovereignty, his plan of redemption unfolding on every page and every verse.

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And then I was, I understood that even when I sin, I'm not thwarting

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God's sovereign plan, but he had those purposes for my sanctification.

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And I find a lot of joy in evangelizing knowing that I have 100 % success rate that I'm sowing seeds and God is giving the increase.

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And so it just, it changed everything. It started changing how I interacted with people, because I can't change a person's mind if they really want to hold to this libertarian freedom that to me, it seems like a traditional understanding.

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Well, 2 Timothy chapter two, I believe tells us that as the Lord's servant, we're called to be loving, patient, willing to teach from God's truth.

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But it's God that grants repentance. And I believe that's for a person to be saved. And even talking about, you know,

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God's truth and sanctification, God has to be one to grant them repentance. So I'm not going to get bent out of shape.

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I'm just going to lovingly show people the word of God and then just trust in his sovereignty. Right on the money, man.

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I got a verse I'm going to kind of mention after I say this, but like, it's encouraging kind of what you just said is because I know that I can trust that my

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God is a God of providence. He's a God who is sovereign. And that's the kind of God that I want to serve because it encourages me.

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Like you said, in the midst of my sin, in the midst of my suffering, in the midst of my depression, in the midst of people, people may have mental problems, whatever it may be,

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God is with his people. And he said, like he says, he'll never leave us or forsake us. Well, either he was lying or he was telling the truth.

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But because I know that the Bible teaches that God is sovereign and all these things I can trust in the Lord. He says, come to us all who worry and give us rest.

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And so I can really truly rest in what his words because I know he's sovereign. Philippians 1, no,

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Philippians 2 verse 14. I gotta find, I just had it. Philippians 2 verse 12,

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Paul says this, Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but much more in my absence.

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Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you both the will and to do for his good pleasure.

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And so essentially, you kind of been talking about Paul hits right on the nail. Paul tells us to work. Now, hold on, let me put some clarifies on this.

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He's not talking about a works based salvation that we can do all this good to get to heaven. But what he's saying is that now that we are saved and essentially what we're doing with this salvation.

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Now that God has granted us this faith, he producing us this faith that we now have. And we should revere

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God as well, that, you know, we know that God is holy. And so we should kind of respond to this holiness as believers.

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I guess it's impossible to be a believer in somebody who professes, you know, the gospel and your life is not, you know, change.

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You already said that earlier. But not only this, God works in us the will for his good pleasure as well.

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So you kind of see both these things intersecting and connecting. Now, you said not parallel, but they're intersecting the whole time.

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And so it's kind of very encouraging for myself, which they know, man, that's that's great.

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If I could do a shameless plug a few months ago, I preached on those verses. And you talk about because you got to think into verse 14 and 15.

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We are not to grumble or complain about anything. And I think that only makes sense if God is sovereign and everything has a purpose in our life.

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So I love because that brings up the dynamic. We are to work out our salvation with fear and trembling from our viewpoint.

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We make choices right according to our desire. And we should be warring against the lust of flesh, warring against Satan and choosing holiness.

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So that's that our viewpoint. Right. And then it's God who's both willing and working in us for his good pleasure.

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So that's where it's like that our responsibility doesn't negate that God has this massive sovereign plan.

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And this is a verse that really helped me because I started to understand these concepts.

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And I was like, I want to make sure I'm being as biblical as possible. And I think it was

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R .C. Sproul that really said, if you want to see the eternal decree, go to Ephesians 111 and read this verse in its entirety and in its context, where Paul says,

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In him, in Christ, we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will.

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I like how predestined is there. That's mentioned six times in the New Testament. But Paul is talking about predestination in a much broader framework.

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He says, according to the purpose of God who works all things after or according to the counsel of his will.

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So what type of counsel are we talking about? We're talking about a Trinitarian counsel before the foundation of the world.

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That's what the context says in verses three and four in Ephesians 1. You got God, the Father, the

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Lord Jesus and the Holy Spirit mentioned in verse 13. But the context is this counsel of God, Trinitarian counsel before the foundation of the world.

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And then they have a will. They make a choice. They have this infinite number of worlds.

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And I'm talking about time and space and all of history that's going to come about. And they make a choice on one in particular.

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So from God's perspective, everything has meaning, purpose, and it's a guarantee to happen.

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And they are working out. Right. The verse says, according to the purpose of him who works all things.

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Right. After this counsel, after this will that they made a decision. So if that's the framework, well, then, of course, predestination is super easy to understand.

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Now, we're talking about a soft determinism because we do make genuine choices. But you got to you got to really let the

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Bible influence how we think and do theology and have knowledge and truth.

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And depending on how much more time we have, there's another passage in the Bible that kind of makes me think that I have the right interpretation of the

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Apostle Paul here in Ephesians. I want to throw it back over to you if you want to say anything. Yeah. Kind of like I'm always encouraged.

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Like when we think about freeway, it always leads to the discussion of God's sovereignty. And like one of the I guess outside of what

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I just read in Philippians two, I'm reminded of Genesis 50. You guys remember the story of Joseph being slowed into, you know, bondage and slavery.

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Of course, that that story points to Christ as being a better Joseph. But anyway, before we get to that, just remember that story.

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At the end of that story, you know, all those things that happened that were evil to Joseph, his brothers did to him. When Joseph returns to his brothers and sees him again, he says, what?

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What you meant for evil, God meant for good. So either he would lie or he would tell the truth.

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But I want to believe that all scripture, like Paul said, is God breathed and profitable with teaching. Right. And so if all scripture is

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God breathing, inspired by God's word, then God put that there for us as the church to believe and hope faster today.

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So, again, all the evil that happens in the world, all the things that happen to you personally, for those of you in Christ, all these things, like Jermiah said,

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God is working together in a plan. So even even the evil in the world, God has a plan for all this.

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It's not by coincidence. There's no such thing as coincidence in Christianity. God has fixed this world that we live in, this reality we live in to happen in a certain way.

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I believe I always quote this because it's pretty good. R .C. Sproul says evil is not good and good is not evil, but it is good that evil exists.

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Otherwise, it would not be. Now, we think about that. It sounds like some foolishness. But when you think about the Bible and what the

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Bible says about all these things, it aligns perfectly with what me and Jermiah have been talking about today.

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God is sovereign over every single thing. But again, Isaiah 45, I create light and darkness.

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I'm the Lord of these things. I create calamity and well -being. Which thing though, man? Well, you alluded to Isaiah 45, and I'm glad you did that because Isaiah 45 sits in a broader context of Isaiah 40 to 48.

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There's this comparing and contrasting of false gods made with human hands, idols, right, according to human imagination, being compared with the sovereign

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God of truth and of the scripture we're talking about. And so one chapter later in Isaiah 46, to me, this helps me know that I have the right interpretation of Paul in Ephesians 1 -11.

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When the prophet Isaiah says in 46, starting in verse 8, he says, remember this and stand firm or call it to mind, you transgressors.

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Remember the former things of old, for I am God, and there is no other. I am God, and there is none like me, declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done, saying, my counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish all my purpose.

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Calling a bird of prey from the east and a man of my counsel from a far country, I have spoken, and I will bring it to pass.

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I have purposed, and I will do it. Now, what is amazing is God is telling us that he is commanding all of time.

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The end from the beginning, whatever comes to pass is by the sovereign hand of God.

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And like you've been saying, that means it has purpose. It has meaning, and when you go back to Isaiah chapter 41, you see the futility of idols.

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So this is, like I said, you've got this comparing and contrasting model going on, where he says, I'll just read verse 22, let them bring their false idols and tell us what is to happen.

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You tell us of the former things what they are, that they may consider them, that we know their outcome, or to declare to us the things to come.

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So here's the test to know if your alleged gods are the true thing.

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Tell us why things happened in the past. Tell us the reason why. Or predict to us the things that are going to come in the future.

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Give us prophecy. They can't do it. All those things fall short of the triune sovereign

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God that has purpose and meaning because it's his created world, and his plan of redemption is unfolding.

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And so I have that underline in my Bible that there's one God, there's none like him, and he is the one declaring the end from the beginning.

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And that's why he's going to accomplish everything that he's counseled and declared to be.

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So those are those passages that are daggers to me.

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I can't understand this libertarian free will. That man can make a choice that God did not foresee before the foundation of the world, and someone says, oh, well, he acknowledged that before the foundation of the world, then

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I'm saying, okay, well, then there went your libertarian freedom, right? You have the ability to choose according to your heart's desire, but not apart from God's sovereignty.

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Right on the money, man. Now, just one last practical implication for the church, the invisible church, those of you who are believing in Christ.

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I tend to like, I like to think of it like this. Whatever is a reality around us, that's exactly the world that God created for a specific purpose in his sovereignty, in his providence.

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So whether you're at that job that you think is bad, the church that you're at, the family that you're in, the school that you're at, whatever these things that's considered hard to you, the reality around you, that's exactly what

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God ordained to happen. So you can trust him and his will. And I like that better, in fact, that I'm not in charge of all these things, because I, you know, we always fall to the right, but God, you can trust him, right?

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He's perfect and wise in all his ways, like Jeremiah's been saying. So whatever the reality is around us, whether it be good, quote unquote, or bad, we can trust that the

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Lord will provide for his people. Now, on the other side, if I can get this a little bit to the gospel,

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I'm sure Jeremiah can help me a little bit. For us as children in Christ, this is very encouraging.

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What about for those who are lost? This is probably encouraging them because their situation might not be as good, quote unquote, for believers.

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Now, I'm not saying that once you get saved, all your problems go away. Like I said already, that Christ is now with us in the midst of our problems.

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That's what makes us have this joy, because no matter what we go through, we can trust that God is sovereign with his people.

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Now, in the psalmist, David says this, Psalms 32, you can help me with this,

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Jeremiah. He says, Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.

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Blessed is a man who the Lord does not impute iniquity and in whose spirit there is no deceit.

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Now, pay attention to this right here. For when I kept silent, my bones grew old, through my groaning all day long, for day and night, your hand was heavy upon me.

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And so notice how what David is saying now, he's a believer, of course, but what he's saying is that when he didn't refuse to acknowledge his sin to God and confess it,

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God, in a sense, was like, he was kind of pruning David in a sense to kind of grow him more like himself. But I kind of touched you too, because how does it relate to an unbeliever, their sovereignty of God and the circumstances around them?

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I think if an unbeliever hears the sovereignty of God that we just have been talking about,

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I think they should be scared out of their mind. Because that sovereign

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God, you cannot thwart him, right? Psalm 2 tells us he who sits in the heavens laughs, right?

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All these kings trying to plot against the sovereign God, that's foolish. But it's laughable because it's impossible.

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So that's why the book of Hebrews tells us that it's a fearful thing. That's where an unbeliever, the only way for them to have a chance to understand these things is to hear the gospel.

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The Holy Spirit regenerate their heart and then come to Christ. And the Spirit illuminate their heart and mind to be able to receive these truths.

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So when it comes to unbelievers, man, we got to hit that gospel hard. And I think another point that you brought up as far as how is this encouraging to believers?

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Well, Jesus in his Sermon on the Mount said, seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness.

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And all these things will be added to you. God will take care of you. If he can take care of the birds of the air and the grass of the field, how much more can he take care of his own children?

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So you know what? Seek first the kingdom. Get plugged into your local church.

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Submit yourself under the leadership of your elders and say, how can I serve? This is my skill set that God has gifted me with.

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And I just want to seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness. Please help me do that.

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And God's going to take care of the rest. So to me, I find a lot of encouragement in that as well. I wish we had more time.

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We definitely could have talked about God's permissive will and his decrees. I didn't have time to get there because I guess one last thing before we get out of here.

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Some people, they always ask me all the time, KJ, I'm having a hard time making this decision. I don't know if I make this decision.

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Is that God's decision or was that my decision? Stuff like that. Of course, we know that, for example, what God's decrees are in his word.

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You should not lie. You should not commit adultery. Those things we know, for example, those are his exact words. So in his permissive will, for example, he may allow somebody to do those things, but it kind of contradicts his word, but it's still a purpose for that.

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How does it relate to, I guess, if somebody were to come up to us and be like, hey, KJ, what is God's plan for us in a sense?

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I'm not talking about unbelievers. I'm not talking about believers. I don't know what to do. I'm having a hard decision to make here. Well, kind of what

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I said earlier, kind of like the reality around us, it's been fixed to happen in a certain way. So whether or not you feel like you made a bad decision or not, that's a decision that God ordained to happen from eternity past.

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So you can rest in that. Now, if you make a sinful decision, that's not okay. Like I said, it has nothing to do with God and KJ.

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Now, of course, God allowed it to happen, but again, it's sinful. We chose to do that sin, but what do you think with your mind?

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Yeah, so that's a very natural question for someone to ask.

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What is God's will for my life? I just, I'm at a standstill. I don't know what to do. Well, God's will for us is to be saved.

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And then I think it's 1 Thessalonians 4, 3 that says, and the will of God is your sanctification.

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So God's will, your salvation, God's will, your sanctification. Seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, right?

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So let's say within that framework, which job should

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I do? Who should I marry? All these things. Well, Psalm 37, 4 says, delight yourself in the

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Lord, and he will give you the desires of your heart. Now, some people immediately jump to the second part and say, oh,

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I want this, that, and the other thing. And it's really vain. It's to gratify the flesh.

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And that's not what that verse is talking about. Pray for a really fancy car. It's saying delight yourself in the

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Lord, salvation, sanctification, seeking first the kingdom of God and his righteousness.

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And so when you're doing that, then you can give God glory in whichever direction you want to go.

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And you can always test to make sure you can give God glory in that. If option A does not give

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God glory, but option B does. Well, that's a simple one, right? But let's say there's two options, that either way you could glorify

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God in that manner. Pray about it. Seek some wise counsel. Figure out which one you maybe like more.

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And then do that one. God will give you desires and he will move you to where he wants you by giving you godly desires to give him glory.

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And this all ties in, again, for the believers. All this should be encouraging for the believers, as Jermiah said, but for unbelievers, you should be scared.

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I think it's in the gospels. I don't want to say Luke. Jesus tells the people, he says, no, don't fear the person who can kill the body, but fear the person who can kill both the body and destroy the soul, or throw that soul into hell.

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And so for the unbeliever, this is scary because God is omniscient. The Bible says that God's going to judge those secret sins, what he's talking about.

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Those things that you think no one knows, God sees all those things. And the standard to get to heaven is not me or Jermiah or Hitler or the devil or another sinner.

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The standard is someone who is perfect. The standard is Jesus Christ himself, who was perfect, who never sinned.

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He was sinless, right? But he chose to die on the cross for sinners, so that can be made right with him. The Bible talks about in 2

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Corinthians 5 .21, he who knew no sin became sin for us, so that in him, the righteousness of God may be shown.

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I'm paraphrasing this, but essentially what we're getting at is that Jesus Christ took upon flesh to die for sinners.

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And so those sinners who trust in Christ and the working person of Jesus Christ will be saved.

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And so again, true rest is found in him. Apart from Christ, you'll never find rest because you're always trying to satisfy that, that rest and like false gods, but kind of what

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Jermiah said, those false guys can't please us, but there's drugs, sex, money, TV, whatever it is, even people, they'll let you down.

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But God, he's the one that we can truly rest in. So any last words, Jermiah, man, before we get out of here?

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First the kingdom of God and his righteousness and all these things will be taken care of.