Call-In Quiz, Book Giveaway

Timothy 2 fifth diligent to present yourself approved to God a worker who does not need to be ashamed rightly dividing the word of truth

Alpha and Omega ministries presents the dividing line radio broadcast The Apostle Peter commanded all

Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us Yet to give this answer with gentleness and reverence

Your host is dr. James white director of Alpha and Omega ministries and an elder at the Phoenix reform to Baptist Church If you'd like to talk with dr.

White, you can call now by dialing 5 0 8 0 9 60. That's 5 0 8 0 9 60 and now with today's topic.

Here's James white. Good afternoon. Welcome to the dividing line My name is James white and I'm here for the next hour.

So hoping to talk to a lot of you folks today. Yes We are rather shamelessly bribing you to call into the dividing line today.

And this is how we're gonna do it I hope you have access to a phone because I have some questions.

I'd like to ask you folks and If you call at 5 0 8 0 9 60 and can give me the proper answer and then of course

We'll discuss that a little bit to hopefully help folks out with certain topics Then we will be giving you a book that is somewhat related

Hopefully to the question that was asked and so if you'll join us today at 5 0 8 0 9 60 you have an opportunity of expanding on your library and I know not everyone is a

Bibliophile like I am but bibliophiles. I know a few of them myself

I've created a few in my years people who have started grabbing Grabbing books and building libraries a lot of wives don't like me because I've introduced guys to that type of an activity

But if you like to collect books and hopefully semi -decent books because I wrote the books will be giving away 5 0 8 0 9 60 is the number 1 triple 8 talk 960 if you are outside the

Phoenix dialing area I don't know what the Phoenix dialing area is anymore I don't think anyone actually technically does but if for some reason 5 0 8 0 9 60 doesn't work for you

Then try the triple 8 talk 960 know what kind of questions am I talking about? Well, obviously they're theological questions

There are questions that will help us to discuss various and sundry issues today on the dividing line

Here's the first one get your dialing finger ready and Dave is sitting there behind the phones.

He's ready to go He's gonna be challenging his typing skills today as to how fast he can do that which may result in challenging my

Interpretational skills figuring out what in the world he's trying to type to me The first question today for anyone who can call in and give me the answer you get a free copy of Mary another

Redeemer a book that I wrote last year that deals with the movement to have Mary defined as co -redemptrix co -mediatrix and advocate for the people of God and also includes a discussion of where the various Marian doctrines came from what

Dogma was defined by the Roman Catholic Church in the year 1854

What dogma was defined by the Roman Catholic Church in the year? 1854 give me a call if you happen to know and while we're hoping that someone out there does know

And I'll have to start giving hints if no one does What's the difference between a dogma and a doctrine in Roman Catholicism because you notice

I didn't say doctrine I said what dogma was defined by Rome in 1854 and you may

Say well what in the world is difference between a doctrine and a dogma? Well in Roman Catholic theology a dogma defines the very

Christian faith itself It is something that is defined infallibly it becomes definitional of the

Roman Catholic faith and Cannot be questioned if you are to continue in communion with the

Roman Catholic Church though Rome obviously isn't really big into this fellowshipping or excommunicating folks a

Doctrine can be taught even even by the Pope and yet if it is not defined infallibly as a dogma it does not become definitional of the

Roman Catholic faith so right now this subject of trying to have defined as a dogma the concept of Mary as Comediatrix Advocate for the people of God etc etc has been taught by Popes You can go back a hundred years and there are

Popes who have taught as doctrine this concept of Mary as co -redemptrix

But it has not yet been made a dogma and so you can disagree with it and still remain a faithful Roman Catholic despite the fact that the

Pope has taught that as Doctrine so sometimes in your conversations with folks you might hear those two terms being used in different ways

That's the difference between them. We do have a caller in answer to the first question.

This is Don in Glendale Hello, Don. How are you good? How are you? I'm doing pretty well

I saw the I saw Dave put your answer up there and even though Dave can't spell it.

I think you've got it, right That's excellent What dogma did did

Rome define in 1854 the Immaculate Conception the Immaculate Conception Is correct?

Yes, the audience is very very impressed by that Now let me just ask you're not old enough to remember that so how are you aware of that fact?

Actually, somebody just gave me a list of Rome's gradual departure from the

Word of God and it has a list of Different things that happened from 83 10 all the way through 1950 so right, right.

I've been looking it over and Sure enough that one was on there Well now here is the big question and no it it doesn't it won't affect whether you get the book or not

But the big question is do you know what the Immaculate Conception states? I Believe it.

It states that Mary was Born in a similar way that Jesus was that she also bypassed the sin line in essence.

That's true the the idea is that Mary by a special application of the grace of God in view of the work of Christ Received a sort of a preemptory application of his grace

So she was not stained with the taint of original sin so that she didn't

Have the stain of original sin and then she did not during her life, of course according to Rome commit any actual sin so she was completely sinless and that's in that sense and that was defined as a dogma in 1854 and I think people need to realize what that means is is that part of the very gospel message of Rome Includes the

Immaculate Conception a lot of folks are not aware of that. They they don't Consider that but I think that is an extremely important issue

That people need to recognize there's a lot of folks today going. Well, you know, there aren't all that many big differences

Well when you start telling folks that you have to believe this to be in communion with the church That makes a definition of the gospel itself.

And I think that's extremely important So Don I'm going to put you back on hold here and please

I hope I get it right and get you back on hold Make sure that you give Dave your address and we'll be sending out a copy of the

Mary another Redeemer to you Which will go into what the Immaculate Conception is the bodily assumption of Mary perpetual virginity

You name it more than you ever wanted to know will be right there for you to be taking a look at.

Okay, I Seem to have lost him Hopefully we can get hold of Don.

I was talking to him just a second ago and he disappeared Don if if you can give us a ring back at five zero eight zero nine sixty will we will get you that book

All right, that's how it's done. See it's easy. It's painless Yes, you do have to listen to me talk about an apologetic subject for a little while, but it's okay

And I hope that you will participate today on the dividing line. Here's the second question Going a completely different direction

Who was the president or prophet those are both similar terms in regards to Mormonism who was the president or prophet of the

LDS Church when polygamy was rescinded? Now you're saying

I didn't know polygamy had been rescinded. Yes, actually It was called the manifesto.

It took place in the 1890s up until that point in time The LDS Church openly practiced and taught and preached the concept of polygamy but to become a

State, Utah had to do something about this. There was tremendous pressure placed upon the

LDS Church, Utah wanted to become a state and so in 1891 specifically this particular prophet and leader of the

LDS Church Gave us the manifesto which rescinded the practice of polygamy now the problem is

Polygamy is still taught in the LDS scriptures section 132 of the Doctrine and Covenants specifically refers to the eternal covenant of marriage and it specifically refers to the practice of Polygamy so it's still a part of LDS scripture.

It's just sort of in I guess we might call limbo It's it's not being practiced

Officially, but if you talk to a lot of folks up there in northern, Arizona and in southern,

Utah They will tell you very clearly that while it may not be practiced officially It certainly is practiced unofficially

So who was the prophet the president of the LDS Church when polygamy was rescinded in the 1890s?

We do have at least one phone call coming in on that right now and for the individual who gets that question, right?

We have a copy of letters to a Mormon elder or I suppose if you go. Hey If I got that one, there's two things you can do

One is I think everybody needs to have a copy of letters to a Mormon elder tucked somewhere near the front door

And you need to have another copy tucked somewhere in your car Now you might say why in the world would you say that the reason is that The Mormon missionaries come to your door and it'd be nice to have something to give to them and More missionaries do tend to take copies of letters to a

Mormon elder also, you might discover that while you're driving around you might see two of those young men on their bikes riding down the road and You might want to stop and talk to them now don't do what

I did one day I Normally do this. So if I've got time, I'm gonna pull over and try to talk to those two young men

I was driving back then I had about a 1984 yellow Nissan pickup truck try to picture this in your mind

There are two missionaries driving down Shea Boulevard This is before they destroyed Shea Boulevard by putting the

Esquad Peak Parkway in and right past where the Esquad Peak is now. I saw two missionaries and so I hung a

Louie and went around and I drove in front of them and Then I stopped and I got out and right as they rode by me on the sidewalk

It's a guy's wait a minute. Wait a minute. Now. I had my tracks and stuff behind the front seat of the truck

Okay, so try to picture this for a moment two more missionaries. You stop this guy in a truck Flags you down stops you and says wait a minute and then he ducks behind the front seat of his truck

Okay, can you picture this I come out of the cab? Dave's he's dying in there.

I come out of the cab and these two guys are as white as a sheet Okay, they are totally they figure their life is over right here and now

Because I'm going to take them out Well, I didn't instead I handed them tracks, but they were at that point.

They were just so Overwhelmed that they didn't even stop and talk to me. They just took him and left so don't do it that way put the book

Someplace else you can get to it without scaring the young men half to death but you need a copy of letters to a

Mormon elder and One way to get that is to answer our question just now

Who was the president the president prophet of the LDS Church when polygamy was rescinded? Let's talk to Jim in Phoenix.

Hi Jim. Hi. I have a guess. I believe it was Brigham Young Well, I'm sorry

It wasn't but you're really close and in fact if you'd like a copy of letters to a

Mormon elder We'd be glad to send one to you. Thank you. I would appreciate Old Brigham Young just before I put you on hold though Brigham Young Brigham Young actually preached sermons wherein he asserted that the day that the church

Backpedaled or or a compromise on an issue like this was the day that the church went into apostasy

And the gospel was denied and so on and so forth He went to his grave not only with I think it was how many wives do you have?

I've forgotten it was over 40, but not only with lots and lots of wives But preaching and teaching that polygamy was the revealed will of God it was it was one of his successors that actually gave in to the the pressure and That's that's where that comes from.

So we'll see if someone else knows real quick Jim. Thanks for calling in Thank you. Hold on just a moment. Okay Alright, hey that hold button works.

Look at that All right I'm just gonna give this one just a couple more Seconds here if anyone has a guess for who the president or prophet of the

LDS Church was When polygamy was rescinded give us a call five zero eight zero nine sixty

C We're generous around here. Jim didn't have the right answer, but we gave him the book anyways, so it doesn't hurt five zero eight

Zero nine sixty one triple eight talk nine sixty I'm not the type of person normally picks up a phone to call in even when

I want to But say hey free books are free books. Give us a ring We do have someone else on the call in right now

Who was the president or prophet of the LDS Church now notice? I'm using two different terms there

Normally Mormons refer to the prophet or the president of the church there's one fellow who's at the top right now, it's

Gordon Hinckley and But sometimes you'll hear other Terminology being used because from the

LDS perspective really all of the twelve apostles are also prophets in a sense but generally in conversation with LDS people the prophet is when used in the singular is the individual is the individual who

Who is at the top? And then you have the he has two counselors And then you have the twelve apostles now here is an interesting interesting guess.

This is Eric in Tempe Eric Who do you think? was the prophet when

Polygamy was rescinded Well since someone took my answer with Brigham Young The only other name

I could think of is Danny Danny Ainge well, you know,

I think Brigham Young was a little closer Ainge was

I'm sure that he had Danny appreciates the fact that said that you recognize he is LDS and by the way just for your information

It was about Four years ago that we were out in Mesa passing out tracts

There to the Mormons during the Easter pageant and guess who came by and took one of our tracks

Since you got that right. We'll give you a copy. It's to a Mormon elder to if you'd like but His only comment to us was we needed to read the

Book of Mormon and we told him that we had and that was the extent of the conversation, but Let's let's pray for Danny Ainge That's right.

I'll put you on hold Eric and we'll get you a copy of that book. Thank you for calling today Alrighty, we have the correct answer coming up.

I appreciate this. We have a historian on the line This is Tom and Phoenix.

Hi Tom. How are you doing? I'm doing real well It sounds like you've got the right answer for me.

Yeah, Wilford Woodruff Wilford Woodruff. That's exactly correct He was the president's or prophet.

How'd you know that? I happen to be a Mormon. Are you having to be a Mormon? Well, we would very much like to send you a copy of letters to a

Mormon elder if you'd be willing to read it. I Would be willing to read almost anything

Well, that's very good. I hope that you will take an opportunity to look at the book I think you will find that it does two things a

We try to show respect for the LDS people with whom we very strongly disagree on theological issues by accurately record recognizing and representing what the

Mormon Church teaches and Secondly when I wrote the book the primary thing I was attempting to do was to present a positive presentation of what we believe in a language that communicates because My experience is that when when you and I talk?

When the Mormon and the Protestant to talk together sometimes we end up using similar terms and meaning different things by them

I agree with and That language barrier is tough to sometimes get over I tried to climb the language barrier

In letters to Mormon elder and be glad to send you a copy and be glad to correspond with you past that.

Okay? Sounds good. Thank you very much Tom. I'll put you on hold just one second. All right. Thank you

All right. Excellent. We Hey the Mormons had to call in to get the answer right on one

Danny age that was it that was quite a guess that was a very very interesting. Shall we do some more of these?

All right, all right, all right brother All right. That's what we'll do. Then. Here's let's go another direction here.

Let's go another direction and see if we can't I Got the wrong one there.

Let's see nice personality. Ah, that's not what I wanted Let's go to another subject here.

Are we ready? What is the name of the and I put this in quotes?

Translation used by Jehovah's Witnesses What is the name of the translation?

used by Jehovah's Witnesses now, this one is very interesting to me because just this past week

I Was coming over from my office to my home and guess who was standing at the front door of my home

Yes, you guessed it two nice Jehovah's Witness ladies And so I wasn't exactly dressed to talk

With folks, but I you know, the scriptures say to be ready in season and out of season so I got got into a conversation with him and it was

One of those situations I must admit it's it's difficult because the ladies were especially this one young lady was so How do

I put it? She was so excited about what she was saying. She was so excited about what she was teaching and Yet as I've tried to explain to them certain aspects, you know, we're going out around preaching

Jesus Christ and I said well Which which Jesus Christ are we talking about here? And we talked about the fact that that's in in Jehovah's Witness theology

When you talk about being baptized in the name of the Father Son and Holy Spirit for the witnesses That refers to being baptized in the name of Jehovah God Michael the

Archangel and an impersonal active force Are we talking about Michael the

Archangel here? What Jesus are we talking about? And so it was a It was a reminder again, and my son came out.

He had he had heard the doorbell ring or something and and My son came outside and was listening and I think he heard this particular element of the conversation

It was probably the the saddest part. I mentioned that heaven is wherever Jesus is and Her response one of the

Jehovah's Witnesses response and we have all four lines ringing that was an easy one

Huh? If if the first person gets it and it looks like the first person will please stay on the line Please stay on the line because we'll have other questions and I'm not trying to play stump anybody

In fact, what I'll do is if the first person gets it, I'll ask a specific question that's relevant to the same area to give you a good chance of of Getting a picking up a book as well.

So please don't don't bail out on me If the first person gets it and no, we're not going to give a book to every person who gives the same answer

We want to cover different topics today, but I was talking to the to the lady And I said heaven is wherever Jesus is and her response was

I don't want to go to heaven I just want to live here on earth and I I tried to talk to them about the fact that in their theology

Jesus is not their mediator and and and they they are not a part of the New Covenant all these things and it was it

Was very very difficult to do. I have never seen all the lines going like that Dave is date smoke is coming out of Dave's ears even as we speak.

Let's talk to oh, no Is it him it probably is Dennis in Phoenix.

Hi Dennis Dangerous Dennis Well Dennis, you know

I when I thought about doing this today I said, you know, I Think Dennis is gonna call in and Dennis is gonna try to get a free book

Okay, Dennis I can see from the screen that you do have the correct answer here, but please

Philip don't hang up I'll have another question for you along the same line Dennis what is the name of the quote -unquote translation used by Jehovah's Witnesses?

The New World Translation that is correct You are the winner. I don't know if we have your address already

Dennis or not But I'll make sure Dave has it if he didn't already get it down from you But have you ever do you own a

NWT? I knew you'd come up with something like that well, you know

I was sitting in a in a church service once and I happen to look over one of the visitors and I don't know if it's just something

I've been trained to do if it's just because I'm really weird or just what? but The first thing

I noticed was the person had a New World Translation with them and boy guess who the first person I was talking

To after the worship service was was that particular individual because I'm trying to go now exactly Where did you get that and they did not know what it was?

They didn't know where to come from. So I was able to get them a real translation of the Bible But I will talk more about the

New World Translation with our other callers who likewise are guessing on this particular issue And I'm gonna put you back on hold

Well, I'll leave it up to you. You can get marry another Redeemer You can get letters to a

Mormon elder. You can get justification by faith Or God's sovereign grace.

How's that? All right. I'll let you talk to Dave about that. Thanks for calling Dennis. All righty. God bless.

Oh This is working. I knew you all were out there. I knew you were there. We just had to bribe you to get you that's all there was to it and Speaking of that Philip in Phoenix.

Hi Philip. How you doing? I'm doing pretty well now Here's I'm gonna try to go along the same line here because you were right.

You also guessed the New World Translation, right? Yeah, you already knew it. Okay, here's a Spoon feed spoon feed here

Philip. Okay. Okay. What in the world is in the background there? Well, I congratulate you on having a daughter that will vacuum her room

I'd like to have your daughter come over and meet my son process to him Okay, here we go.

Now. This one's this one's really easy. Now. The New World Translation is known for having all sorts of mistranslations the single most

Famous mistranslation in the New World Translation is found in John 1 1

Do you know what the New World Translation the false rendering that it gives at John 1 1?

I believe it puts a before God. Yeah a god a god that is exactly correct.

All right the winner And by the way, it does not capitalize the word

God it is a small G God And of course that is because Jehovah's Witnesses believe that Jesus is

Michael the Archangel That's exactly right. And so they're willing to call Michael a god in fact, they're willing to even call him a mighty

God, but he is not the Almighty God and So that is their their error at that point

So when I put you back on hold let today's know whether you'd like a copy of letters to a

Mormon elder Marry another Redeemer Justification by faith or God's sovereign grace.

Okay. All right. Thanks. All right Thanks for calling in today put that call back on hold and I think

Dave just fell off of his chair But I appreciate it. We have two more callers

We have Brad and we have Mike and I will try to come up with a good question

For each of you so that you can stay on the winning track here. We are doing real well

Let's take one more call before I take our break. Let's talk with Brad. Hi Brad. How you doing? Good You think you're ready for this?

Well, it depends on the question Now, did you know what the did you know the New World Translation?

Yes. Did you know the mistranslation of John 1 1? Yes. Well, then I think you're probably doing really really well here.

I don't think you're gonna have any problem at all We'll try to keep it in the Jehovah's Witness realm here.

Okay, that may be have you done some reading in that area? I've talked with a lot of Jehovah's Witnesses.

Okay. All right tried to share with him possibly. Yes. All righty Here we go. This was this is a spoon feed as well

The Jehovah's Witnesses are well known for teaching that Jesus Christ has already returned invisibly and They teach that Armageddon must take place within one generation of the year that Jesus returned

Invisibly in what year does the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society teach that Jesus returned invisibly and set up his heavenly kingdom?

1914 1914 there you go See, I told you I'd keep it right down the right down the alley for you there

And of course that is that is a doctrine that keep your eye on it. I have a feeling it's gonna change

It's gonna change first of all because we know back in the 1980s That there was a push within the governing body to change 1914 to I think it was 1954 and the reason for that was

Ready or not believe it or not. This is the reason the reason was they were gonna try to tie

His return to the signs and the heavens discussed in Matthew 24 and guess what? They're gonna tie it to the launching of the

Russian Sputnik Hmm, but it did not get the two -thirds vote in the governing body that would allow that to take place

So obviously the generation that was alive in 1914 is getting a little crusty about now and so something's gonna have to change over the next number of years and Keep an eye on that because I think you're gonna see a change in that doctrine

Thank you very much for calling me put you on hold we have more questions to come and Dave is working very very hard today and We're gonna take your phone calls at five eight

Five zero eight zero nine sixty right after this break My daddy will be right back.

If you'd like to talk with him, you can call him now at five zero eight zero nine sixty

The phone lines are now open at five zero eight zero nine sixty, that's five zero eight zero nine sixty

Please call because the more my husband talks now the less he'll talk when he gets home That's quite true we go to line for this is

Mike and Phoenix. Hi Mike. Hey, how's it going? It's going really well It's great to hear all of you out there that do listen and are calling in.

I am enjoying this Oh, this is the first time I've caught your your program. Oh, I think it's absolutely fantastic Well, we've never done that this way before so I'm afraid

I'm not sure what we're gonna do in the future When you first started I thought it was I thought it was Hank Hanegraaff's program and I'm like, wow

This is not on usually Saturday afternoon Actually, he is right before us. The best of the Bible Answer Man is on from one to two

So well, I guess you know, this is just gonna be such a spoon feed I really I really hate to hate to do this to you

But by the way, and you know folks you can call right now five zero eight zero nine sixty if you just want to get online and The president ministry just came in Rich Pierce and said by the way

We will also make available to folks if you if you all choose any of our tape sets

Specifically, especially you might want to get your name on the list right now for the debates that we just finished doing on Long Island That would include the debate on the mass with Roberts and Janice the debate on the deity of Christ with Muslim apologist

Hamza Abdul Malik and the debate on the Trinity with oneness Pentecostal representative

Robert Sabin and So we will make those available to our callers today as well

And you may have already guessed that we're we're lenient even with people that don't get the answer, right? So it's okay.

And I'm hoping I do if I don't it means I need to study more well, this one's a pretty easy one, but it gives me the opportunity of mentioning something and and that is

Jehovah's Witnesses are known for Teaching that only a certain number of individuals will gain eternal life in heaven they are called the the the anointed class and the number of the anointed class is 144 ,000 but here is here now you get whatever you want to choose when you talk to Dave, but here is the real question

What is? The Greek term for anointed. Oh, I have no idea.

Do you know the Hebrew term for anointed think about it for a moment? Who is the?

Mashiach the Messiah the word anointed in Hebrew is Mashiach and in Greek.

It's Christos Exactly. Yeah, so the anointed class the hundred forty four thousand is the

Christ class and Jesus is one of the hundred and forty four thousand Well Actually, and I'm glad you brought this up actually and I haven't looked at the the most recent statistics.

I'm not sure they're out yet but the Watchtower Society publishes every year the number of people who claim to be of the anointed class and The number goes down every year.

I think it's down into the six thousands or seven thousand someplace and you know how they know that because the the

Thursday of Passover week the actual Passover day every year is when the Watchtower Society has it's what's called

Memorial Supper and what they do all across the world over 10 million people gather for this

Memorial Supper and they pass the bread and the elements through the congregation and 99 .9

percent of the people do not partake of the bread and the elements They're simply passed straight down the aisle and nobody partakes if you partake you are by partaking claiming to be one of the anointed class and they keep track of how many people do partake and That's how many people are claiming to be members of the anointed class and then reason the number gets smaller and smaller every year is because as Jehovah's Witnesses teach it the

Generation that saw the events of 1914 is the last generation so therefore the number of the anointed class keeps getting smaller and smaller because as the

Watchtower teaches God stopped calling people into the anointed class in 1935 now that's more information than you ever want to know but actually my wife and I invite

Mormon missionaries and Jehovah's Witnesses into the house and it's when they the

Mormons and and the Jehovah's Witnesses come by or the more or the LDS Church has the

Spots on the commercial on TV, right? I call up and invite And you get your own

King James Version of the Bible it comes attached to two smiling Mormon missionaries I have Doctrine and Covenants, Pearl of Great Pride And everything.

I've done the exact same thing. You need a copy of Letters to a Mormon Elder to have next to the door as well All righty.

Thanks for calling in today Michael. We put you on hold and get your address from you. Okay? All righty Okay, folks.

I think we're being most generous today Here is the next question on the dividing line today

This one is this one could only one person can take a shot at this one because it's a true or false

That means you have a 50 -50 chance true or false Vatican 2

Vatican 2 did away with the idea of indulgences Vatican 2

Did away with the idea of indulgences. Now, what is an indulgence?

Well, you may recall from your church history the idea That an indulgence is a somewhat of a withdrawal from the heavenly treasure of merit and The treasure of merit is made up of the excess merits of Jesus because the

Roman Catholic Church Teaches that Jesus only had to shed one drop of blood to redeem the world. But since he shed his blood copiously there is this tremendous

Amount of excess merit that goes into what's called the treasury of merit and Every saint that dies that has more merit than they need to get into heaven

Their extra merit is also put into the treasury of merit for example Mary had all sorts of extra merit that went into the treasury of merit and every saint that dies their extra merit goes into the

Treasury of merit the end an indulgence is sort of what a withdrawal Whereby the power of the keys the church withdraws some merit and Applies it to someone here on earth or actually to someone in purgatory, too

That's what's called an indulgence and it was the selling of indulgences that so offended Martin Luther That he posted the 95 theses that began as we traditionally call it the

Protestant Reformation So the question is a true or false questions of 50 -50 shot one way or the other

Vatican 2 Did away with the idea of indulgences I've talked to many people that believe that it did and so let's find out poor

Jeff called in. Hi Jeff How you doing Jeff? Good. How you doing? I'm doing pretty well.

Jeff. Do you have any idea what an indulgence is? Well, aren't you glad it's a 50 -50 shot, yeah

Okay Jeff 50 -50 shot true or false

Vatican to did away with the idea of indulgences. I'll try That's exactly right.

Very good Actually in reality and this is something I that I think anyone who is studying this subject they need to look into this after Vatican to factor

January 1st 1967 the Roman Catholic Church put out a document called indulgent

ERM doctrina and that is a document that Specifically talks about indulgences.

It teaches indulgences and right now The Pope has proclaimed special indulgences to celebrate the year 2000 so there's even more ways to get indulgences today

So Jeff you are a winner and so I'm gonna put you on hold you can get hold of letters to Mormon elder

Mary another Redeemer justification by faith God sovereign grace So there's a number of tape series that are in fact

We even have a debate on purgatory and indulgences if that was something you're interested in Otherwise that you did call in when we were talking more about Jehovah's Witnesses So yeah, we have stuff on the

New World Translation on the deity of Christ issues like that so let me put you on hold Jeff and let you talk to Dave and he will get your

Get your information that opens up phone lines at five zero eight zero nine sixty five zero eight

Zero nine sixty. Here's the next question. Maybe we can get a caller in between now and our break and Besides when you get on the phone book, there's a hint.

There's a hint Once you get on the phone, you're probably gonna get to choose something Have you noticed how that's worked so far?

You're probably gonna get a chance now You have to listen to me talking about something, but you're probably gonna get a chance

There's a smart person calling right now at five zero eight zero nine sixty five zero eight zero nine sixty

One triple eight talk nine sixty if you're outside the Phoenix dialing area wherever in the world that is

Here's the next question This one is gonna be interesting all three members of the singing group

Phillips Craig and Dean Are members of what? Anti -trinitarian religious movement

All three members of the singing group Phillips Craig and Dean are members of what

Anti -trinitarian religious Movement the phones are lighting up.

I Didn't think anybody would know this because I'll be perfectly honest with you folks. I didn't know about this until about two months ago

And what did I do? Did I mention it on the air before? Is that why everybody knows this? I don't know. Well all three members of the same group

Phillips Craig and Dean are members of what? Anti -trinitarian religious movement. Hey, why don't we go ahead and take our break now and then come back with all these the lines are lighting up But there's one left open at five.

Oh eight zero nine sixty grab a line. We'll be talking to you right after this My daddy will be right back if you'd like to talk with him you can call him now at five zero eight zero nine sixty

We're setting new records today for phone calls Dave has sometimes sat in there just sort of lazily listening to what

I have to say, you know Just sort of yawning and stretching but not today. We're giving him his workout.

We have set new records Yes new records for calls to the where who's doing that I have no idea who that's hey we have a question on the table and the question is all three members of the singing group

Phillips Craig and Dean are members of what anti -trinitarian religious

Movement. Hi Katie. Hi. How are you doing? Well, thank you. I'm I appreciate your phone call

So, do you have any idea I think I might is it the oneness movement?

That's exactly right The oneness Pentecostal movement and I did did you know that or did

I mention it in something somewhere along the way? I just kind of put two and two together because of your recent debates and right the fact that they do deny that the doctrine of the

Trinity Yeah, I Was writing a article for the

CRI journal that will appear in a in a future issue called loving the Trinity and I was

In a hotel room in Chicago a couple months ago. I'm sitting there typing away and I'm reading some some material at CRI had sent me and all of a sudden

I run across the line that says all three members of the singing group Phillips Craig and Dean are oneness ministers and Guess what

CD was playing in my CD -rom when I read that? But their new favorites album and I kicked that out and I looked at the

CD and I looked up at my screen it says loving the Trinity and the the contrast between the two was

Quite interesting indeed. So so you might find interesting if that's an area of your study the of the debates

I hope the masters will arrive in the mail this week that I mentioned a couple weeks ago and that was my debate with Robert Sabin on the subject of the

Trinity and Or whatever else your little heart would desire I'll let you talk to Dave about that.

Thank you. Thanks for calling in today. Bye. Bye All right. Well, a lot of folks are somewhat surprised by that, but that is the case.

We checked it out Here's the next question on the table. This is this is called the gimme question of the day

Maybe I was just running out of questions. I could ask I don't know I was typing these things up here on my little

LG phenom But this one will be shot at Rodney's direction here in a moment So so get ready

Rodney if there's anyone out there to help you. I haven't put you on yet But hold on just a moment. Here's the question

You know, I bet you there is a drumroll someplace in the sound effects here I just haven't found it yet, but I really have time to look right now, but we'll find it eventually name in order the five doctrines represented by the acrostic tulip

Name in order. Yeah, Katie could have gotten that one the five doctrines represented by the acrostic tulip 5 0 8 0 9 60 5 0 8 0 9 60 is the number one triple -eight talk 960

Let's talk to Rodney. Hi Rodney. I Thought I was going to get to talk about one this pinacol and now you get you set me up with this flower

Flowers the flower scene. Oh, no. Well, I'll tell I'll tell you what I'll do is if you don't know tulip

I'll give you a one this Pentecostal question. I Don't know enough to even get limited atonement

Well, yeah, I got you got one out of five right there. So that's not true. Okay Well, we'll let somebody else answer tulip

And now they only have to come up with four of the five because they can figure out which one the limited atonement first Oh, I'm always glad to help.

No They that they don't have to share whatever they get with you, so here's that here's the question

Let me in my somewhat less than fertile brain will come up with a question for you here in regards to oneness

Pentecostal ism the largest single Denomination in the United States that represents the oneness perspective is named what?

Oh That is have you studied when this Pentecostal ism at all? Not really. I just remember in a in a

In a classroom setting you mentioned that you were sitting in a motel room. Yes. Yes Listen to Phillips Greg and Dean and mm -hmm.

I'd heard that story. So when you gave that question, I go for it Well, I understand. Well, I don't worry.

We're gonna put you on hold and let you choose something Anyways, in fact, you might want to get the debate we did with Robert Sabin on this

But it's called the United Pentecostal Church International or UPCI and a lot of folks get confused

Because they hear the phrase Pentecostal and I said wait a minute I know that I know Pentecostals and they believe in the

Trinity the United Pentecostal Church split off from the Assemblies of God back I believe in 1916 and so they are a group unto themselves

But then they had a big split I believe 1992 1993 and a number of their people have left that denomination and have started very large churches that interestingly enough

Are found on trendy broadcasting network and things like that as well so this issue of the doctrine of the

Trinity and The specific issue with the United Pentecostal Churches is the Sun as a person eternal in their theology

The Sun is actually two persons. Let me take that back. Jesus is two persons He's the Father and the

Son the Sun is his human nature The Father's his divine nature. The Sun is not eternal.

The Sun has not eternally existed He came into existence at the time of Bethlehem and the

Jesus was two persons the Father and the Son So when Jesus prayed that was his human half praying to his divine half and so on and so forth

So that's an important issue. You might find that debate interesting I'll put you on hold here a second Rodney and let Dave talk to you and you can get online right now at 5 0 8 0 9 60 5 0 8 0 9 60 now some of you might be going

This is the weirdest dividing line I've ever heard and it is There's no two ways about but I was doing two things today

Thing number one. I wanted to find out if there are folks listening to us who have phones

We like when you call in we really really do like when you call in and participate in the program

It's your questions that need to be answered We're not I'm not here to to listen to myself talking into to that type of thing

I'd like to know what your questions are. So first of all, we have have proven very clearly that there is

An audience out there of folks who are interested in these things secondly, it's very interesting what topics brought the most response

When I asked what is the name of the translation used by Jehovah's Witnesses all four lines lit up within about five seconds and That may mean that that's a very easy subject or it may mean that when the folks who deal with apologetics issues

Do that the most common thing they run into is the folks who knock on your door The folks who are coming door -to -door and the folks who are dealing with the issues that the

Jehovah's Witnesses raised So that tells me that discussing the Trinity discussing the deity of Christ Taking your phone calls as to how would you respond to this passage when talking to Jehovah's Witnesses?

what do they believe about this those that means those are things that we should definitely schedule in the future and should focus upon Equipping you because that's that's what we're about here

We're about equipping you and making you better able to not only share your faith with others

But first and foremost understand what your faith is to begin with It has been my experience that when you're challenged apologetically, that's when you discover it you know what

I need to know what I believe and why I believe it and That results in a deepening of your own

Christian faith It's not just the idea of well, let's get our swords out and go out and hack hack up a few

Jehovah's Witnesses here theologically Let's get our our ammunition for our theological

Submachine guns and take on a Mormon or take on the this that or the other thing. No, that's that's not what apologetics is apologetics requires us first and foremost to understand the faith and to love the faith and be passionate about the faith and then

We can share that with others because you know If you share with somebody and you don't really believe it and you're not passionate about it

They can tell they can see right through that. There's there's really no reason To even fake it.

Okay, so there are two things I was doing. Yes I'm extremely appreciative of all the calls that we got and Secondly, it has helped me to understand what areas we need to possibly go into now, of course,

I could be wrong Maybe when I asked the question about indulgences That means that we need to spend some time talking about what

Roman Catholic theology is And there certainly does seem to be that need out there today because there are

Protestants going Yeah, there's really not that much of a difference and yet I sit here and talk about Indulgences I talked about the

Treasury of Merit and Most folks are going what what even most

Roman Catholics are going. What are you talking about? So maybe there needs to be some emphasis upon those things as well now right now is the first time since the program began that there is not anyone sitting on the phone line and That just tells me that maybe

Someone you just got to realize something even the folks that didn't get it. Right got something folks. You see how that Works, you know, we're being very generous today.

That's how we did it So, let's see if we can very very very very very very quickly Give one more thing away.

Okay, you're ready five zero eight zero nine sixty What was the name of the founder of Mormonism?

Rich Pierce just fell over in the control studio Dave is laughing his head off.

What is the name of the founder of Mormonism? We only have about two minutes

That's all the time. We've got here folks. We'd like to give away one more copy of letters to a

Mormon elder or Maybe the the radio debate program. Here we go. There they go

Stay on the line folks. Even if we get the one person now, we'll still talk to you Who was the name of the founder of Mormonism?

Don't worry about putting names up there folks Let me just simply go to line one. Hi line one

Whoever that's you sir Joseph Smith was his name.

That's exactly right. We didn't even clear the calls But thank you for calling in hold one moment so Dave can get back to you and get the information

Joseph Smith was the founder of Mormonism. Let me I'm thinking fast here.

I'm thinking fast rich is panicking in there Thinking fast another question for line two

Let's go to line two. Hi line two. What's your name? Hi, Natasha Let me ask you a really really simple question.

How many books are in the New Testament? Oh God Okay Well, that's for the that's for the whole

Bible. There's 27 who says let me give you a Mormon question real quickly What is the main book that Mormons read?

There you go, and it's Thank you very much. Hold on just one second Line three.

Hi line three. Who are you? Hello, I'm talking. Yes, that's you What's your name?

Hi Jennifer real quick. You got to speak up real quickly Jennifer. Here's a question for you

What's your what's what area would you like a question in You have no idea.

Okay, here's here's a pretty straightforward question for you What? What two books did

Luke write in the New Testament? Uh -huh One of them's easy

Luke okay, how about the gospel of Luke and the book of Acts right there the history of the church.

Well Thank you for calling the hole Let me put you on hold here just one second Dave and get information from you

And I think we actually have time to clear the phones here. Hi line four

This is you I can hear you so I can hear you breathing. Go ahead and say what your name is

Hello, yes, sir. I'm talking to you Gary. Hi Gary. What area would you like a question in?

Well, you did well with that one you were you were correct about that let me ask you a quick second question about that Joseph Smith Had a successor who was very well known because there's a big university named after him up in Provo, Utah there yeah

Actually come up with tougher questions, huh? I heard that I'm talking about him on the radio earlier on Okay, let me put you on hold just a moment

Dave can get your information and talk to you See, it was just that easy folks. I mean how could they couldn't get any easier than that?