Call-In Quiz, Book Giveaway

Timothy 2. Fifth. Diligent to present yourself approved to God. A worker who does not need to be ashamed rightly. Dividing the word of truth. Alpha and Omega ministries presents the dividing line radio broadcast.

The Apostle Peter commanded all Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us Yet to give this answer with gentleness and reverence. Your host is dr. James white director of Alpha and Omega ministries and an elder at the Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church.

If you'd like to talk with dr. White, you can call now by dialing five zero eight zero nine sixty. That's five zero eight zero nine sixty and now with today's topic. Here's James white.

Book Giveaway and the Immaculate Conception

Good afternoon and welcome to the dividing line. My name is James white and I'm here for the next hour. So hoping to talk to a lot of you folks today. Yes, we are rather shamelessly bribing you to call into the dividing line today.

And this is how we're gonna do it. I hope you have access to a phone because I have some questions that I'd like to ask you folks and if you call at five zero eight zero Nine sixty and can give me the proper answer and then of course We'll discuss that a little bit to hopefully help folks out with certain topics.

Then we will be giving you a book that is somewhat related Hopefully to the question that was asked and so if you'll join us today at five zero eight zero nine sixty. You have an opportunity of expanding on your library and I know not everyone is a bibliophile like I am.

But bibliophiles, I know a few of them myself. I've created a few in my years people who have started grabbing Grabbing books and building libraries. A lot of wives don't like me because I've introduced guys to that type of an activity.

But if you like to collect books and hopefully semi decent books because I wrote the books will be giving away. Five zero eight zero nine sixty is the number one triple eight talk nine sixty if you are outside the Phoenix dialing area and I don't know what the Phoenix dialing area is anymore.

I don't think anyone actually technically does but if for some reason five zero eight zero nine Sixty doesn't work for you. Then try the triple eight talk nine sixty know what kind of questions am I talking about?

Well, obviously they're theological questions. There are questions that will help us to discuss various and sundry issues today on the dividing line. Here's the first one. Get your dialing finger ready and Dave is sitting there behind the phones.

He's ready to go. He's gonna be challenging his typing skills today as to how fast he can do that which may result in challenging my Interpretational skills figuring out what in the world he's trying to type to me the first question today for Anyone who can call in and give me the answer.

You get a free copy of Mary another Redeemer a book that I wrote last year that deals with the movement to have Mary defined as co-redemptrix comediatrix an advocate for the people of God and also includes a discussion of where the various Marian doctrines came from.

What dogma was defined by the Roman Catholic Church in the year? 1854. What dogma was defined by the Roman Catholic Church in the year? 1854. Give me a call if you happen to know and while we're hoping that someone out there does know.

And I'll have to start giving hints if no one does. What's the difference between a dogma and a doctrine in Roman Catholicism. Because you notice I didn't say doctrine. I said what dogma was defined by Rome in 1854 and You may say well what in the world is difference between a doctrine and a dogma.

Well in Roman Catholic theology a dogma defines the very Christian faith itself. It is something that is defined infallibly it becomes definitional of the Roman Catholic faith and Cannot be questioned if you are to continue in communion with the Roman Catholic Church though Rome obviously isn't really big into this fellowshipping or excommunicating folks a Doctrine can be taught even even by the Pope and yet if it is not defined infallibly as a dogma it does not become definitional of the Roman Catholic faith.

So right now this subject of trying to have defined as a dogma the concept of Mary as Comediatrix Advocate for the people of God etc. Etc. Has been taught by Popes. You can go back a hundred years and there are Popes who have taught as doctrine this concept of Mary as co-redemptrix.

But it has not yet been made a dogma and so you can disagree with it and still remain a faithful Roman Catholic despite the fact that the Pope has taught that as Doctrine. So sometimes in your conversations with folks you might hear those two terms being used in different ways.

That's the difference between them. We do have a caller in answer to the first question. This is Don in Glendale. Hello, Don. How are you? Doing pretty well. I saw the I saw Dave put your answer up there and even though Dave can't spell it I think you've got it, right?

That's excellent. What dogma did did Rome define in 1854 the Immaculate Conception. The Immaculate Conception is correct. Yes, the audience is very very impressed by that. Now, let me just ask you're not old enough to remember that.

So how are you aware of that fact? Actually, somebody just gave me a list of Sure from the Word of God and it has a list of fun from AD 310 all the way through 1950 so right, right. I've been looking it over and Sure enough that one was on there.

Well now here is the big question and no it doesn't it won't affect whether you get the book or not. But the big question is do you know what the Immaculate Conception states? Believe it in a way that Jesus was that she also bypassed the thin line in essence.

That's true the the idea is that Mary by a special application of The grace of God in view of the work of Christ Received a sort of a preemptory application of his grace. So she was not stained with the taint of original sin so that she didn't Have the stain of original sin and then she did not during her life, of course According to Rome commit any actual sins so she was completely sinless and that's in that sense and that was defined as a dogma in 1854 and I think people need to realize what that means is is that part of the very gospel message of Rome Includes the Immaculate Conception a lot of folks are not aware of that.

They they don't Consider that but I think that is an extremely important issue. That people need to recognize there's a lot of folks today going. Well, you know, there aren't all that many big differences.

Well when you start telling folks that you have to believe this to be in communion with the church. That makes a definition of the gospel itself. And I think that's extremely important. So Don I'm going to put you back on hold here and please I hope I get it right and get you back on hold make sure that you give Dave your address and we'll be sending out a copy of Mary another Redeemer to you which will go into What the Immaculate Conception is the bodily assumption of Mary perpetual virginity you name it more than you ever wanted to know.

We'll be right there for you to be taking a look at. Okay, I Seem to have lost him. Hopefully we can get hold of Don. I was talking to him just a second ago and he disappeared. Don if if you can give us a ring back at five zero eight zero nine sixty will we will get you that book.

All right, that's how it's done. See it's easy. It's painless. Yes, you do have to listen to me talk about an apologetic subject for a little while, but it's okay. And I hope that you will participate today on the dividing line.

The LDS Manifesto and the End of Official Polygamy

Here's the second question. Going a completely different direction. Who was the president or prophet those are both similar terms in regards to Mormonism who was the president or prophet of the LDS Church when polygamy was rescinded?

Now you're saying I didn't know polygamy had been rescinded. Yes, actually. It was called the manifesto. It took place in the 1890s up until that point in time the LDS Church openly practiced and taught and preached the concept of polygamy but to become a State Utah had to do something about this.

There was tremendous pressure placed upon the LDS Church, Utah wanted to become a state and so in 1891 specifically This particular prophet and leader of the LDS Church Gave us the manifesto which rescinded the practice of polygamy.

Now the problem is Polygamy is still taught in the LDS scriptures section 132 of the Doctrine and Covenants specifically refers to the eternal covenant of marriage and it specifically refers to the practice of Polygamy so it's still a part of LDS scripture.

It's just sort of in I guess we might call limbo. It's it's not being practiced Officially, but if you talk to a lot of folks up there in northern, Arizona and in southern, Utah They will tell you very clearly that while it may not be practiced officially It certainly is practiced unofficially.

So who was the prophet the president of the LDS Church when polygamy was rescinded in the 1890s we do have at least one phone call coming in on that right now and for the individual who Gets that question, right?

We have a copy of letters to a Mormon elder or I suppose if you go. Hey Far I got that one. There's two things you can do. One is I think everybody needs to have a copy of letters to a Mormon elder tucked somewhere near the front door and You need to have another copy tucked somewhere in your car.

Now you might say why in the world would you say that? The reason is that the Mormon missionaries come to your door and it'd be nice to have something to give to them and More missionaries do tend to take copies of letters to a Mormon elder.

Also, you might discover that while you're driving around you might see two of those young men on their bikes riding down the road. And you might want to stop and talk to them. Now. Don't do what I did one day.

I Normally do this. So if I've got time, I'm gonna pull over and try to talk to those two young men I was driving back then I had about 19 84 yellow Nissan pickup truck try to picture this in your mind.

There are two missionaries driving down Shea Boulevard. This is before they destroyed Shea Boulevard by putting the Esquad Peak Parkway in and right past where the Esquad Peak is now. I Saw two missionaries and so I hung a Louie and went around and I drove in front of them.

And then I stopped and I got out and right as they rode by me on the sidewalk I said guys, wait a minute. Wait a minute now I had my tracks and stuff behind the front seat of the truck. Okay, so try to picture this for a moment two more missionaries.

You stop this guy in a truck. Flags you down stops you and says wait a minute and then he ducks behind the front seat of his truck. Okay, can you picture this I come out of the cab? Dave's he's dying in there.

I come out of the cab and these two guys are as white as a sheet. Okay, they are totally they figure their life is over right here and now because I'm going to take them out. Well, I didn't instead. I handed them tracks, but they were at that point.

They were just so Overwhelmed that they didn't even stop and talk to me. They just took him and left so don't do it that way put the book someplace else so you can get to it without scaring the young men half to death, but you need a copy of letters to a Mormon elder and One way to get that is to answer our question just now.

Who was the president the president prophet of the LDS Church when polygamy was rescinded? Let's talk to Jim in Phoenix. Hi, Jim. Hi. I have a guess. I believe it was Brigham Young. Well, I'm sorry It wasn't but you're really close and in fact if you'd like a copy of letters to a Mormon elder We'd be glad to send one to you.

Thank you. I would Put you on hold Brigham Young just before I put you on hold though Brigham Young. Brigham Young actually preached sermons wherein he asserted that the day that the church Backpedaled or or a Compromise on an issue like this was the day that the church went into apostasy and the gospel was denied and so on and so Forth he went to his grave.

Not only with I think it was. How many wives do you have? I've forgotten it was over 40, but not only with lots and lots of wives. But preaching and teaching that polygamy was the revealed will of God it was it was one of his successors that actually gave in to the the pressure and.

That's that's where that comes from. So we'll see if someone else knows real quick Jim. Thanks for calling in. Hold on just a moment. Okay. All right. Hey that hold button works. Look at that. All right.

I'm just gonna give this one just a couple more Seconds here if anyone has a guess for who the president or prophet of the LDS Church was. When polygamy was rescinded give us a call. Five zero eight zero nine sixty C.

We're generous around here. Jim didn't have the right answer, but we gave him the book. Anyways, so it doesn't hurt five zero eight zero nine sixty one triple eight talk nine sixty. I'm not the type of person normally picks up a phone to call in even when I want to.

But say hey free books are free books. Give us a ring. We do have someone else on the call in right now. Who was the president or prophet of the LDS Church now notice? I'm using two different terms there.

Normally Mormons refer to the prophet or the president of the church. There's one fellow who's at the top right now, it's Gordon Hinckley and. But sometimes you'll hear other Terminology being used because from the LDS perspective really all of the twelve apostles are also prophets in a sense but generally in conversation with LDS people the prophet is when used in the singular is the individual is the individual who Who is at the top and then you have the he has two counselors and then you have the twelve apostles.

Now here is an interesting interesting guess this is Eric in Tempe. Eric Who do you think? Was the prophet when Polygamy was rescinded.

Well since someone took my answer with Brigham Young The only other name I could think of is Danny.

Danny Ainge, well, you know, I think Brigham Young was a little closer Danny Ainge was I'm sure that he had. Danny appreciates the fact that said that you recognize he is LDS and by the way just for your information It was about mmm four years ago that we were out in Mesa passing out tracts There to the Mormons during the Easter pageant and guess who came by and took one of our tracks.

Since you got that right. We'll give you a copy to a Mormon elder to if you'd like but his only comment to us was we needed to read the Book of Mormon and we told him that we had and that was the extent of the conversation, but Let's let's pray for Danny Ainge.

That's right. I'll put you on hold Eric and we'll get you a copy of that book. Thank you for calling today. Alrighty, we have the correct answer coming up. I appreciate this. We have a historian on the line.

This is Tom and Phoenix. Hi Tom. How are you doing? I'm doing real well. It sounds like you've got the right answer for me. Yeah. Wilford Woodruff Wilford Woodruff. That's exactly correct. He was the president's or profitable.

How'd you know that? I happen to be a Mormon. Are you having to be a Mormon? Well, we would very much like to send you a copy of letters to a Mormon elder if you'd be willing to read it. I Would be willing to read almost anything.

Well, that's very good. I hope that you will take an opportunity to look at the book. I think you will find that it does two things a We try to show respect for the LDS people with whom we very strongly disagree on theological issues by accurately record recognizing and representing what the Mormon Church teaches and Secondly when I wrote the book the primary thing I was attempting to do was to present a positive presentation of what we believe in a language that communicates because.

My experience is that when when you and I talk? When the Mormon and the Protestant to talk together sometimes we end up using similar terms and meaning different things by them. I agree with and That language barrier is tough to sometimes get over.

I tried to climb the language barrier In letters to Mormon elder and be glad to send you a copy and be glad to correspond with you past that. Okay? Sounds good. Thank you very much Tom. I'll put you on hold just one second.

All right. Thank you. All right. Excellent. We Hey the Mormons had to call in to get the answer right on one Danny age that was it that was quite a guess. That was a very very interesting. Shall we do some more of these?

All right, all right, all right, no brother. All right. That's what we'll do. Then. Here's let's go another direction here. Let's go another direction and see if we can't. I Got the wrong one there. Let's see nice personality.

Ah, that's not what I wanted. Let's go to another subject here. Are we ready? What is the name of the and I put this in quotes? Translation used by Jehovah's Witnesses. What is the name of the translation?

Used by Jehovah's Witnesses now, this one is very interesting to me because just this past week I Was coming over from my office to my home and guess who was standing at the front door of my home. Yes, you guessed it two nice Jehovah's Witness ladies.

And so I wasn't exactly dressed to talk With folks, but I you know, the scriptures say to be ready in season and out of season so I got got into a conversation with him and it was. One of those situations I must admit it's it's difficult because the ladies were especially this one young lady was so.

How do I put it? She was so excited about what she was saying. She was so excited about what she was teaching and. Yet as I've tried to explain to them certain aspects, you know, we're going out around preaching Jesus Christ.

And I said well, you know, which which Jesus Christ are we talking about here? And we talked about the fact that that's in in Jehovah's Witness theology. When you talk about being baptized in the name of the Father Son and Holy Spirit for the Witnesses.

That refers to being baptized in the name of Jehovah God Michael the Archangel and an impersonal active force. Are we talking about Michael the Archangel here? What Jesus are we talking about? And so it was a.

It was a reminder again, and and my son came out and he had he had heard the doorbell ring or something. And and my son came outside and was listening and I think he heard this particular element of the conversation.

It was probably the the saddest part. I mentioned that heaven is wherever Jesus is and Her response one of the Jehovah's Witnesses response and we have all four lines ringing that was an easy one, huh?

If if the first person gets it and it looks like the first person will please stay on the line. Please stay on the line because we'll have other questions and I'm not trying to play stump anybody. In fact, what I'll do is if the first person gets it, I'll ask a specific question that's relevant to the same area to give you a good chance of of Getting a picking up a book as well.

So please don't don't bail out on me. If the first person gets it and no, we're not going to give a book to every person who gives the same answer. We want to cover different topics today, but I was talking to the to the lady.

And I said heaven is wherever Jesus is and her response was I don't want to go to heaven. I just want to live here on earth and I I tried to talk to them about the fact that in their theology Jesus is not their mediator and and and they are not a part of the New Covenant all these things and it was it was Very very difficult to do.

I have never seen all the lines going like that. Dave is date smoke is coming out of Dave's ears. Even as we speak. Let's talk to oh, no. Is it him it probably is Dennis in Phoenix. Hi Dennis. Dangerous Dennis.

Well Dennis, you know I when I thought about doing this today I said, you know, I Think Dennis is gonna call in and Dennis is gonna try to get a free book. Okay, Dennis I can see from the screen that you do have the correct answer here, but please Philip don't hang up.

I'll have another question for you along the same line. Dennis what is the name of the quote-unquote translation used by Jehovah's Witnesses? The New World Translation that is correct. You are the winner.

I don't know if we have your address already Dennis or not. But I'll make sure Dave has it if he didn't already get it down from you. But have you ever do you own a NWT? No, I Knew you'd come up with something like that well, you know I was sitting in a in a church service once and I happen to look over one of the visitors and I don't know if it's just something I've been trained to do if it's just because I'm really weird or just what?

But The first thing I noticed was the person had a New World Translation with them and boy Guess who the first person I was talking to after the worship service was was that particular individual because I'm trying to go now.

Exactly, where did you get that and they did not know what it was? They didn't know where to come from. So I was able to get them a real translation of the Bible. But I will talk more about the New World Translation with our other callers who likewise are Guessing on this particular issue and I'm gonna put you back on hold.

Well, I'll leave it up to you. You can get marry another Redeemer. You can get letters to a Mormon elder. You can get justification by faith. Or God's sovereign grace, how's that? All right. I'll let you talk to Dave about that.

Thanks for calling Dennis. All righty. God bless. Oh This is working. I knew you all were out there. I knew you were there. We just had to bribe you to get you that's all there was to it and Speaking of that Philip in Phoenix.

Hi Philip. How you doing? I'm doing pretty well now. Here's I'm gonna try to go along the same line here because you were right. You also guessed the New World Translation, right? Yeah, you already knew it.

Okay. Here's a Spoon feed spoon feed here Philip. Okay. Okay. What in the world is in the background there? Well, I congratulate you on having a daughter that will vacuum her room. I'd like to have your daughter come over and meet my son process to him.

Okay, here we go. Now. This one's this one's really easy. Now. The New World Translation is known for having all sorts of mistranslations the single most Famous mistranslation in the New World Translation is found in John 1 1.

Do you know what the New World Translation the false rendering that it gives at John 1 1? I believe it puts a before God. Hey God. Hey God, that is exactly correct. All right. There you go the winner.

And by the way, it does not capitalize the word God. It is a small G God and of course that is because Jehovah's Witnesses Believe that Jesus is Michael the Archangel. That's exactly right. And so they're willing to call Michael a God in fact, they're willing to even call him a mighty God, but he is not the Almighty God and So that is their their error at that point.

So when I put you back on hold let today's know whether you'd like a copy of letters to a Mormon elder. Marry another Redeemer. Justification by faith or God's sovereign grace. Okay. All right. Thanks.

All right. Thanks for calling in today, but that call back on hold and I think Dave just fell off of his chair. But I appreciate it. We have two more callers. We have Brad and we have Mike and I will try to come up with a good Question for each of you so that you can stay on the winning track here.

We are doing real well. Let's take one more call before I take our break. Let's talk with Brad. Hi Brad. How you doing? Good. You think you're ready for this? Well, it depends on the question. Now, did you know what the did you know the New World Translation?

Yes. Did you know the mistranslation of John 1 1? Yes. Well, then I think you're probably doing really really well here. I don't think you're gonna have any problem at all. We'll try to keep it in the Jehovah's Witness realm here.

Okay, that may be have you done some reading in that area? I've talked with a lot of Jehovah's Witnesses. Okay. All right. Tried to share with him possibly. Yes. All righty. Here we go. This was this is a spoon feed as well.

The Jehovah's Witnesses are well known for teaching that Jesus Christ has already returned invisibly and They teach that Armageddon must take place within one generation of the year that Jesus returned Invisibly in what year does the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society teach that Jesus returned invisibly and set up his heavenly kingdom?

1914 1914 there you go. See I told you I'd keep it right down there right down the alley for you there. And of course that is that is a doctrine that keep your eye on it. I have a feeling it's gonna change.

It's gonna change first of all because we know back in the 1980s That there was a push within the governing body to change 1914 to I think it was 1954 and the reason for that was Ready or not believe it or not.

This is the reason the reason was they were gonna try to tie His return to the signs and the heavens discussed in Matthew 24 and guess what? They're gonna tie it to the launching of the Russian Sputnik.

Hmm, but it did not get the two-thirds vote in the governing body that would allow that to take place. So obviously the generation that was alive in 1914 is getting a little crusty about now and so something's gonna have to change over the next number of years and Keep an eye on that because I think you're gonna see a change in that doctrine.

Thank you very much for calling me put you on hold we have more questions to come and Dave is working very very hard today and We're gonna take your phone calls at Five eight five zero eight zero nine sixty right after this break.

My daddy will be right back. If you'd like to talk with him, you can call him now at five zero eight zero nine.

Sixty phone lines are now open at five zero eight zero nine sixty. That's five zero eight zero nine sixty. Please call because the more my husband talks now the less he'll talk when he gets home.

That's quite true. We go to line four, this is Mike and Phoenix. Hi Mike. Hey, how's it going? It's going really well. It's great to hear all of you out there that do listen and are calling in. I am enjoying this.

The first time I've caught your your program. Oh, I think it's absolutely fantastic.

Well, we've never done it this way before so I'm afraid not sure what we're gonna do in the future.

When you first started I thought it was I thought it was Hank Hanegraaff's program and I'm like wow. This is not on usually Saturday afternoon.

Actually, he is right before us. The best of the Bible answer man is on from one to two so well I guess you know, this is just gonna be such a spoon feed. I really I really hate to hate to do this to you but by the way, and you know folks you can call right now five zero eight zero nine sixty if you just want to get online and.

The president ministry just came in Rich Pearson said by the way. We will also make available to folks if you if you all choose Any of our tape sets. Specifically, especially you might want to get your name on the list right now for the debates that we just finished doing on Long Island.

That would include the debate on the mass with Roberts and Janice the debate on the deity of Christ with Muslim apologist Hamza Abdul Malik and the debate on the Trinity with oneness Pentecostal representative Robert Sabin and.

So we will make those available to our callers today as well. And you may have already guessed that we're we're lenient even with people that don't get the answer, right?

So it's okay. And I'm hoping I do. If I don't it means I need to study more.

Well, this one's a pretty easy one, but it gives me the opportunity of mentioning something and and that is Jehovah's Witnesses are known for Teaching that only a certain number of individuals will gain eternal life in heaven they are called the the the anointed class and the number of the anointed class is 144 ,000 but here's here now you get whatever you want to choose when you talk to Dave, but here is the real question What is?

The Greek term for anointed. Oh, I have no idea. Do you know the Hebrew term for anointed think about it for a moment? Who is the? Mashiach the Messiah the word anointed in Hebrew is Mashiach and in Greek.

It's Christos. Exactly. Yeah, so the anointed class the hundred and forty four thousand is the Christ class and Jesus is one of the hundred and forty four thousand. Actually, and I'm glad you brought this up actually and I haven't looked at the the most recent statistics I'm not sure they're out yet but the Watchtower Society publishes every year the number of people who claim to be of the anointed class and The number goes down every year.

I think it's down into the six thousands or seven thousand someplace and you know how they know that because the the Thursday of Passover week the actual Passover day every year is when the Watchtower Society has it's what's called Memorial Supper and what they do all across the world over 10 million people gather for this Memorial Supper and they pass the bread and the elements through the congregation and Ninety nine point nine percent of the people do not partake of the bread and the elements.

They're simply passed straight down the aisle and nobody partakes. If you partake you are by partaking Claiming to be one of the anointed class and they keep track of how many people do partake and that's how many people are claiming to be members of the anointed class and then reason the number gets smaller and smaller every Year is because as Jehovah's Witnesses teach it the generation that saw the events of 1914 is the last generation so therefore the number of the anointed class Keeps getting smaller and smaller because as the Watchtower teaches God stopped calling people into the anointed class in 1935.

Now that's more information than you ever want to know.

But actually my wife and I invite Mormon missionaries and Jehovah's Witnesses into the house. Mm-hmm. And it's when they the Mormons and and the Jehovah's Witnesses come by or the more or the LDS Church has.

The the spots on the commercial on TV, right? I call up and invite.

And you get your own King James version of the Bible. It comes attached to two smiling Mormon missionaries.

I have doctrine and covenants covenants pearl of great pride.

And everything I've done the exact same thing. You need a copy of letters to a Mormon elder. Alrighty, thanks for calling in today. Michael John hold and get your address from you. Okay. Alrighty. Okay, folks.

I think we're being most generous today. Here is the next question on the dividing line today. This one is this one could only one person can take a shot at this one because it's a true or false. That means you have a 50 -50 chance true or false.

Vatican to. Vatican to did away with the idea of indulgences. Vatican to Did away with the idea of indulgences. Now, what is an indulgence? Well, you may recall from your church history the idea that an indulgence is a somewhat of a withdrawal from the heavenly treasure of merit and The treasure of merit is made up of the excess merits of Jesus because the Roman Catholic Church Teaches that Jesus only had to shed one drop of blood to redeem the world.

But since he shed his blood copiously there is this tremendous amount of excess merit that goes into what's called the treasury of merit and Every saint that dies that has more merit than they need to get into heaven.

Their extra merit is also put into the treasury of merit for example Mary had all sorts of extra merit that went into the treasury of merit and every saint that dies their extra merit goes into the Treasury of merit the end an indulgence is sort of what a withdrawal whereby the power of the keys the church withdraws some merit and Applies it to someone here on earth or actually to someone in purgatory, too.

That's what's called an indulgence and it was the selling of indulgences that so offended Martin Luther That he posted the 95 theses that began as we traditionally call it the Protestant Reformation. So the question is a true or false questions of 50 -50 shot one way or the other Vatican to Did away with the idea of indulgences?

I've talked to many people that believe that it did and so let's find out poor Jeff called in. Hi, Jeff. How you doing, Jeff? Good. How you doing? I'm doing pretty well. Jeff. Do you have any idea what an indulgence is?

Well, I've heard of indulgences. Yeah. What is it? Aren't you glad it's a 50 -50 shot? Yeah, that makes me feel a little. Okay, Jeff 50 -50 shot true or false Vatican to did away with the idea of indulgences.

I'll try. Ah, that's exactly right. Very good. Actually in reality. And this is something I that I think anyone who is studying this subject. They need to look into this after Vatican to factor January 1st 1967 the Roman Catholic Church put out a document called indulge NTRM doctrina and that is a document that Specifically talks about indulgences.

It teaches indulgences and right now The Pope has proclaimed special indulgences to celebrate the year 2000 so there's even more ways to get indulgences today. So Jeff you are a winner and so I'm going to put you on hold you can get hold of letters to Mormon elder Mary another Redeemer justification by faith God Sovereign Grace, so there's a number of tape series.

That are in fact, we even have a debate on purgatory and indulgences if that was something you're interested in. Otherwise you did call in when we were talking more about Jehovah's Witnesses. So yeah, we have stuff on the New World Translation on the deity of Christ issues like that so let me put you on hold Jeff and let you talk to Dave and he will get your Get your information that opens up phone lines at five zero eight zero nine sixty five zero eight.