December 9, 2016 Show with Brian G. Hedges on His Books “Christ All Sufficient” and “Christ Formed in You”

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio

platform on which pastors, Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues

facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one

man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed whom we

converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another

wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour and we hope to hear

from you, the listener, with your own questions.

Now here's.

Our host, Chris Arnzen.

Good afternoon Cumberland County, Pennsylvania and the rest of humanity living on the

planet earth who are listening via live streaming.

This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron, wishing you all a happy Friday

and this is the ninth day of December 2016.

I'm delighted to have for the full two hours on Iron Sharpens Iron today a

guest that I have never interviewed before, Brian G. Hedges, who is lead pastor at

Fulkerson Park Baptist Church in Niles, Michigan and he's the

author of a number of books including License to Kill, a publication of Cruciform Press

and numerous articles published in periodicals and online.

He's also a blogger at brianhedges .com and today we are addressing

two of his titles published by Shepherd Press, Christ All -Sufficient and

Christ Formed in You, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time to Iron Sharpens

Iron, Brian G. Hedges.

Thanks for having me today, Chris.

And let me right off the bat give our email address for those of you listening who want to join us on the air with

a question.

My email address is chrisarnzen at gmail .com, c -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n

at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name, city and state and country of residence whenever you

write to Iron Sharpens Iron with a question for our guests.

And before we go into the two topics at hand, I'd like to know something about

yourself personally, Pastor Brian.

I'd like to know what were the circumstances that the Lord providentially used in your life that

drew you to himself and saved you.

Something about your childhood as.

Well, what religious atmosphere you were raised in, if any.

Oh yeah, I was and my dad

is a

very Bible -oriented home.

Almost from the time I could read, we were reading scripture

regularly.

And I don't remember the age now, but growing up years, there was a kind of a

rule in the household that we didn't watch any TV.

And then of course, the TV itself was, you

know, pretty, pretty limited.

But that just built reading scripture.

18 or 19, I'd read through seven or eight.

But the Lord certainly used his word,

saved or converted.

But in my teen years really came into a keen conviction

of sin, had a

desire to be an

expositor.

Wow, that's

quite a

long time.

And as it happens with many sons of pastors, did you

happen to part company with your dad.

Over any theological

issues?

You know, there

are some, Lloyd -Jones

and his shells, and in our family devotions, we were often reading from Spurgeon's

checkbook of faith, their morning and evening, things like that.

So I kind of cut my teeth on Spurgeon and on John Bunyan, the Pilgrim's Progress,

Jonathan Edwards,

and those kinds

of writers.

Those I've never read.

I think viewpoint has brought,

and maybe in our ecclesiology and our understanding of the church, my dad

and I would be a little bit

different, but in our basic, continue to have a.

Good relationship with each other.

Praise God.

And I want to let you know, I'm not even sure you knew this, but the last time I had the

Iron Sharpens Iron radio pastor's luncheon, where we have these

luncheons at least twice a year, it may even escalate to more,

God willing, but this was a luncheon that my late wife came up with

the idea for it about 25 years ago.

And she said to me, you know, since you work in Christian radio

and have worked in Christian radio for so many years, most of your friends are pastors.

And I haven't met anybody that knows as many pastors as you do.

And every Christmas, instead of us exchanging gifts, why don't we treat your pastor friends to lunch?

And we started doing that about 25 years ago, at least 25 years ago,

maybe even a little longer than that.

And that was in New York where I used to live.

And that grew and grew and grew.

And to the point where we had nearly a hundred pastors attending and we have

publishers, nearly every single major publisher, Christian publisher all over

the United States and the United Kingdom, each donate nearly a hundred

books, a hundred copies of a certain title that I select to give

out to the pastors.

So each pastor leaves with a sack of 30 or 40 books, hundreds of dollars worth of

free books.

And last year, my very last pastor's luncheon, I should say,

the book that Shepherd Press sent us to give out to every pastor was Active

Spirituality.

So every pastor, every pastor got a copy of that book.

Yeah.

Thanks for promoting that book for me.

Yeah.

And I hope that those men have been and are still being blessed by that book.

So tell us more detail about Fulkerson Park Baptist Church in Niles, Michigan.

Reformed, evangelical, we probably...

And we're in a

small...

It's just north of the

Indiana -Michigan border.

So our congregation is a mix of Michigan and Indiana people.

We call it a Michiana congregation.

It's kind of an interesting mix of a lot of working -class folks.

There's also a couple of parachurch ministries in the area, so we have a lot of parachurch ministry families in

our church.

And then we're just about six miles north of Notre Dame University

in Milwaukee, Indiana.

And so we have quite a few college students, both undergraduate students and also graduate

students and professors and college teachers,

instructors that are in the church.

A real love for the gospel and a hunger for the exposition of Scripture and

for a church life and community that's rooted in the gospel.

A few minutes ago, I've been here almost 14 years.

And for those of you listening who want to look up more details on that church, either later or

while you're listening, it's fulkersonpark .com is the website.

F -U -L -K -E -R -S -O -N -park .com.

That's F as in Frank, U -L -K -E -R, S as in Sam, O -N as in Nancy, park

.com.

And we are going to be discussing one book per hour today.

The first title we are going to address is Christ All -Sufficient.

If you could tell us about what was the motivation.

Behind

you writing

this exposition of

Colossians.

Well, that

was a

special creation and also his efficiency and all of his

saving work.

And so the idea of a book was there and Shepard Press was gracious enough to

jump at it.

So it was my first attempt at an exposition.

My other books have been very different in their form and

theme.

I want to read a couple of endorsements for it.

Because they happen to be written by folks that I know very well and folks who have been on this

radio program.

My friend of many years, Tom Askle, who is pastor of Grace Baptist Church in Cape Coral, Florida,

wrote of this book, helpfully highlights the supremacy of Christ.

A wonderful introduction to this New Testament letter and will serve pastors,

teachers, and students very well.

And also John Kratz, who happens to be the pastor of

my former pastor on Long Island before moving to Pennsylvania.

My former pastor's parents are members of John Kratz Church, or the church where

John Kratz is the pastor, I should say.

And John Kratz says, a rich, clear exposition of this ancient

letter, making modern applications of God's eternal truth to the false ideas of our

day.

This book has the power to help spiritually hungry individuals and groups to biblically transform their

thinking and living.

That's Pastor John Kratz, pastor at Faith Bible Church in Sharpsburg, Georgia.

And let me once again announce our email address if anybody would like to join us on the air today.

Our email address is ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

Well, the letter to the Colossians is

obviously an important book, as is all of God's

own breathed -out words.

And this letter to the

Colossians deals with the power of the gospel, and if you could explain further on that.

You know,

in some ways, this

is the

people that he

had church had been planting

in, his

opening both in the world, and also he

says it's doing this in years, bearing fruit and increasing among you.

You really see Paul's application of the gospel in this way.

He's arguing

fruitfulness and fullness of life in everything they need, but it's all rooted in

against.

Teachers were

evidently saying they

needed something else.

He received Christ Jesus the Lord,

so walk in him, and emphasizes again and again and again the sufficiency of Christ.

In his work as it's disclosed in the gospel.

We have a listener in Slovenia named Joe, who says, it seems to me

that Colossians is a crucial book for us to teach thoroughly today.

If I'm understanding correctly, there are many corollaries in our contemporary

context to the context that Paul addressed in Colossae.

I'm thinking of the widespread emphasis on angel worship by New Age mystics,

supposed visions from God promoted by NAR leaders, and I believe that is New

Apostolic Reformation leaders, and the fleshly minds of prosperity and

doomsday preachers.

Please comment regarding your insights about the relevancy of Colossians for our day in

context.

And he ends with this quote, let no one keep defrauding you of your

prize by delighting in self -abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on

visions he has seen inflated without cause by his fleshly mind and

not holding fast to the head from whom the entire body being supplied and held together by

the joints and ligaments grows with a growth which is from God.

Colossians 2, 18 through 19, and thank you Joe from quoting from the New American

Standard Bible sponsors of the Iron Sharpens Iron program, but if you could comment on that brother.

Yeah, well every, and we could

even go so far as to say that

any addition to Christ does

end up

being a subtraction,

and that

was

certainly

truth of

angels or the invocation of angels or having certain kinds of mystical

and observance of, and I

don't think it's a reality

in our culture today.

So we live in a very spiritual world, we live in a very spiritual culture, even as secular as we are

there's a hunger for spirituality as long as it doesn't have the

tradition.

Forms of spirituality are really just distractions from the

gospel of Christ and will lead us,

Colossians 2, in

asceticism and severity of the body but they're of no value in

stopping the indulgence of the flesh.

So I agree with Joe that the book of Colossians is relevant to today

with the false teachings that are surrounding us today.

And by the way Joe, you have won a free copy of Christ All -Sufficient, an

exposition of Colossians by our guest Brian G. Hedges, compliments of Shepherd Press,

and also compliments of our friends at Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, cvbbs

.com, who will be shipping this out to you.

Keep your eye open for a package that says cvbbs .com and we thank Shepherd Press and

cvbbs .com for providing these gifts to our

listeners.

And the thing about the gospel

being the power of God unto salvation, it is more than

convincing men intellectually to believe in the truths

of Christ and our need for his sacrifice.

Isn't the proclaiming of the gospel in and of itself a powerful

tool that God uses as an instrument to bring out about the miracle

of regeneration?

The preaching of the gospel, isn't it not used by the Lord

to basically break apart a stony heart,

destroy it, rip it out of our chest and replace it with a heart of flesh?

Isn't it the gospel that is not only a set of intellectual and historical

facts, but isn't it a tool for miraculous power?

Well, Paul certainly.

Calls the gospel the power of God for salvation.

One, as he's writing to the Thessalonian believers there, that

the gospel came to them not

only in word

but also in

action.

And what are

the importance.

Of prayer and thanksgiving that are the importance that is found in Colossians

regarding those two.

Things, prayer and thanksgiving?

That just runs through the book of Colossians.

So there are references to chapters in this

letter which focus

in chapter one.

And it's a prayer really for spiritual maturity in the believers.

He's praying for them and that wisdom.

He wants them to not be

seduced the wisdom

that is in the

gospel.

And that he wants and he's praying for the outworking

of that in their way of the

Lord.

Every way they'd be fruitful in every good work.

And that connects back on that the gospel was increasing

and was bearing fruit.

So here he's just praying for the continuing work of the gospel in the hands of the Spirit in

the lives of these believers.

We have Pastor Sterling Vanderwerker in Greensboro, North Carolina, who says, our

men's group is working through Colossians right now.

What would you suggest that we place particular emphasis on to focus our men to

carefully consider so that they can benefit our local church today, so that they can

benefit our local church body's spiritual health?

Thank you for your hard work on this great epistle.

Thanks, Brother Chris, for this great guest.

If you could comment on Pastor Sterling Vanderwerker's question.

Yeah, well, and

so that's where I was in Christ, the work of Christ.

And you can almost break down the letter into chapter one,

there's a

focus on the supremacy

of Christ.

He gloves off and

is warning the believers there.

And so that's

the beginning of chapter three.

And then about, oh, I guess,

three to the end of the letter, Paul gets in the

application on the lordship

sin.

He talks about how we relate to one another in the Christian community.

He talks about our households and the phrase running through, so

the lordship of Christ.

So I would say those are three pillars,

supremacy of Christ, the sufficiency of Christ, the lordship of Christ, and helping men to just see

how that works itself out throughout this letter would be helpful.

You know, there are people, as you know, who roll their eyes

whenever folks like you and like me and other guests that I've had on this program

basically are saying that the doctrines that the

Reformation were battling over are

still issues that divide us from Rome and all of the other

world religions for that matter today.

And people roll their eyes thinking that these are trivial issues.

They think that these are issues that we don't need to resurrect from the past.

They're relics and they are secondary or tertiary importance.

But the sufficiency of Christ is really at the heart of the Reformation, isn't it?

The supremacy and the sufficiency.

You may have Roman Catholic clerics and apologists and theologians and scholars and

individuals boldly claim that they believe in the sufficiency of Christ, but

they cannot really make that claim and be logically

consistent and honest with the fact that they

add so many things that are required on top of Christ and his finished work in

order for someone to be right with God according to their own theology and

and sacerdotal system.

Isn't this true that they really do great offense to not only the supremacy but the.

Sufficiency of Christ?

Well, I'm certainly no expert in Roman Catholic theology and some of the Roman

Catholic Church to any degree that

pulls us away from

whatever degree we're pulled off of that

dangerous.

And so, you know, my understanding

upon the sacrament and not just

of

each of

those, of his

righteousness and his obedience and his finished work on our behalf, and it has us looking either at ourselves or at

our law keeping or at our performance or at some ritual or looking to the church.

So when we

are not looking at Christ and looking to Christ and.

His finished work, that's a big problem.

Yes, and obviously they don't believe in the sufficiency of his death on Calvary because

not only will those who are redeemed according to the

Catholic Church, not only are they going to, most of them, the vast majority anyway, suffer in

purgatory because the atonement provided by Christ

on the cross was insufficient to totally cleanse one of

the sins that are preventing him from entering heaven.

But they also heap upon the merits of Christ.

They heap upon not only the merits of individuals themselves, but the

merits of Mary, the merits of the saints, and you could go on and on.

I mean, it really robs Christ of so much of his glory, in my opinion.

This is a very personal thing to me.

Because I was

raised Roman Catholic.

We have Tyler in Mastic Beach, Long Island, whose question.

We'll get to when we return from the break as we're going through our first break right now.

And so be patient, Tyler in Mastic Beach, Long Island, New York, we'll get to you.

If anybody else would like to join us on the air, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Don't go away.

We're going to be right back with Brian G.

I'm Chris Arnson, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, and here's one of my favorite guests, Todd Friel, to

tell you about a conference he and I are going to.

Hello, this is Todd Friel, host of Wretched Radio and Wretched TV and

occasional guest on Chris's show Iron Criticizing

Iron.

I think that's what it's called.

Hoping that you can join Chris and me at the G3 Conference in Atlanta, my new

hometown.

It is going to be a bang up conference called the G3 Conference

celebrating the 500th anniversary of the Protestant Reformation with Paul Washer,

Steve Lawson, D .A. Carson, Votie Baucom, Conrad and Bayway, Phil Johnson, James White and a bunch of other people.

We hope to see you there.

Learn more at g3conference .com, g3conference .com.

Thanks, Todd.

I think.

See you at the Iron Sharpens Iron exhibitors booth.

I'm James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries.

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Well, if you've just tuned us in, our guest today for the full two hours is Brian G. Hedges,

pastor at Fulkerson Park Baptist Church in Niles, Michigan, the author of a number of books, and we're

discussing two of them today.

The first hour we are discussing Christ All -Sufficient.

The second hour, God willing, we'll be discussing Christ Formed in You, and our email address is

chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Tyler in Mastic Beach, Long Island, New York, says, Do Reformed Christians have a higher

view of the cross due to penal substitutionary atonement?

No, a higher view.

Hollow?

No, higher, h -i -g -h -e -r, higher, more profound.

Yeah, I could understand a higher view.

Well, I think this

Biblical view, not

only penal, it's a

problem.

I see which,

of course, a

justification,

deeply

problematic.

Yes, and there are many Christians today who say

that they believe in penal substitutionary atonement, but they don't really believe in it because they believe

multitudes whom Christ substituted for will be in hell anyway, so he

really couldn't have been their substitute if they are going to hell.

So, in fact, I have heard a clip of a Wesleyan

Arminian professor at a Nazarene seminary chiding

his Arminian brethren for using that term because he was logically

correct that they have no business using it.

It really can only logically and consistently be held by those who believe

that everyone for whom Christ substituted will be in heaven.

Does that make complete sense to you?

Again, I'm not an Arminian.

I'm a five -point Calvinist.

My understanding of Arminians only

for those

who are Arminian

would be in how is it that someone comes to faith, and that's why

I would say

that Arminians are

denying substitution.

Yes, well, that's why I was saying that there are Arminians who, with

full -throated conviction, will say that Christ died as their substitute, but I don't think that they can

logically hold that because I don't think it's consistent with

what it means to be a substitute.

If Christ was a substitute, then there's no punishment required for those for whom he substituted.

Anyway, that's the way it seems to me that it's inconsistent.

Thank you very much, Tyler, and guess what?

If you give us your full mailing address, you're getting a free copy of Christ All -Sufficient by our guest,

Brian G. Hedges.

Compliments of Shepherd Press and Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, cvbbs

.com.

We have Murray in Kinross, Scotland, who says, In your introduction tonight, you were

thankful to be a part of the church at Fulkerson Park.

Would such thankfulness be a right appropriation of Colossians 1, verse 18,

so that we find ourselves attracted to a church where Christ is acknowledged as head

and given the preeminence, and are thankful to be there?

Paul commends the Colossians in chapter 1, verse 4 for their love for all the saints.

How can we show this practically today?

Practically show our love for the saints?

Yes, that is the crux of what Murray in Kinross, Scotland was

asking, yes.

Yeah.

Well, to just keep our thoughts rooted in Colossians, we could go to

Colossians chapter 3, where the inner

workings in the spiritual of Colossians

chapter 3, where he tells

Illini, meekness, patience, bearing with one another, if one has complained.

When I've taught on the

can't even obey, someone

has sinned

against

me.

And so that is

one another command.

While they're not really connected in any kind of practice, a mere Sunday morning

without any involvement in the Christian

community makes it really hard for us to

learn.

And what do you mean when referring to this letter to the church in Colossae?

What do you mean by a charter of Christian freedom?

Chapter 2,

he

warns them, not

arguments,

received him.

And as

he does

that, he's in him,

our union with Christ.

And Paul is telling us that in him, we have received all these things that we need.

In him, we've been made alive.

In him, we have fullness.

We have been

Christian freedom here.

It's a

way of describing the gospel,

the blessings that are ours through union with Christ in his death and

resurrection, which is really right at the heart.

Now we know from what we've already said, some things about the Colossians.

We know that there was a tendency to be involved in a heretical

worship, like the worship of angels and so on.

What else can you tell us specifically about this people that Paul was addressing?

Those are the Colossian heresy.

The Colossians themselves, you know, what was the background of this church?

Okay.

Yeah, well, Colossae

was, and, you know, the

scholars are

actually fairly on exactly what the Colossian heresy was.

That was with elements,

angel worship and so on.

And so it seems that fullness is

found in

Christ, that

life is found in

Christ.

Forgiveness is found in Christ.

Everything they need is found in Christ himself.

And we have Harrison in Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania, who

wants to know when the letter to the church in Colossae addresses

the worship of angels.

Is this referring to the practice that we would see very much

today within Roman Catholicism and perhaps even New Age mysticism, where people

are praying to invisible entities that they really don't see or

hear?

Or was it that these Christians were worshiping angels that were actually

manifesting themselves physically before their eyes?

I tend to think that it was the actual manifestation.

It was probably one of either two.

Mostly rooted

reference to could be

that they were giving an undue attention to angels as the mediators of the Mosaic Law

over Christian Jewish law.

It could

be similar then

to the

argument in

Hebrews

and

among these people, so that they were in

order to protect themselves against evil powers.

And so it was something more like superstition.

And that would be a

glance upon angels that we may see in our culture.

There are some good reasons to think that that may have been going on.

Clinton Arnold has written a book

where he uncovers

archaeological artifacts and things of that nature, inscriptions on amulets and such from that region of the

Lycaeus Valley.

There was something on

those options in the

book.

What seems clear to me is that however people are attracted to

angels comes in any way a distraction from Christ,

where people begin to be superstitious or

encounters with angels or looking for some kind of a spiritual, mystical experience, rather

than focusing on the personal work of Christ.

Scripture has clearly in burial and

resurrection and in the ministry of Christ through his Holy Spirit through his Word of Day.

To whatever degree we're distracted from that, we are veering into dangerous territory.

Well, thank you, Harrison.

And you also have won a free copy of Christ, All -Sufficient and Exposition of

Colossians by our guest Brian G. Hedges, compliments of Shepherd Press and compliments of Cumberland Valley

Bible Book Service, cvbbs .com.

So keep your eye open in the mail for a package from cvbbs .com.

Thank you very much for contributing to the program with your question.

What do you mean in chapter 7 of your book by the new humanity?

Verse 1.

So when I'm

talking

about the

new humanity, I'm

talking

about

the

church.

So verse

9, do not lie to one another, seeing that you've

heard anthropos, so it's the word for man or for human being, and it could have a corporate

dimension.

So you read, do not lie to one another, seeing that you've put off the old humanity with its practices and have put on

the new humanity or the new man, which is being renewed in.

Knowledge.

It's not Greek and Jew, circumcised and

uncircumcised,

human beings as they are saved and redeemed.

We have CJ in Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York, who

asks, if Christ is the first fruits of the dead, why is it that there were

those who were raised from the dead before him when he was crucified?

You know, that miraculous occurrence that was going on when the temple was torn.

That's a great question.

I don't know the answer to that.

Is that okay to say on the air?

Yeah, sure it is.

Obviously, we don't want you to lie, and there is not a single Christian theologian

that I know that can answer every question.

So, you know, I could

speculate or

possibly say that much.

Yes, that's basically the explanation that I have heard from others when that question was posed to them.

That his resurrection is such a preeminent one that it didn't

matter if chronologically something occurred similar before, that this was the reason

why those being raised from the dead were even capable of

doing so.

And I really want you to, for the next five minutes, before we go on to our next hour and our next

topic, to really summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners about Paul's

letter to the Church of Colossae.

Fullness.

Everything we need is found in Christ.

That means that there's no Christianity that's only

attained by an elite few.

If Christ really is sufficient for us, then we don't need all of the extra isms, we don't need legalism and mysticism and

asceticism and monasticism and so on.

If Christ is sufficient and he's all we need, then we don't need anything else.

It means this, that we need all of Christ.

We can't, to use Calvin's words, we need

Christ as Savior and Lord.

We need Christ as justifier and sanctifier.

We don't need half of Jesus, we need the whole Jesus.

We need Christ in his meekness and majesty, his suffering and glory, his crucifixion, his resurrection, the incarnation, ascension.

We need 100 % of Christ, and he is 100 % of what we need.

All of our needs are met.

We need him.

And so we should not be complacent in any way.

We should be placing all of our faith in Christ.

And I think the letter to the Colossians will challenge us in a couple of directions.

It will challenge us to examine whether we are

trusting in other things,

and it will also challenge whether we have really embraced the full

Christ.

In union with him, we are living these

lives by the Spirit.

Chris.

Well, thank you so much for the discussion that we've had on Colossians, and we're going to be switching

gears to your book, Christ Formed in You, The Power of the Gospel for

Personal Change.

And if anybody would like to join us on the air, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail

.com.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

We already have a number of people waiting patiently for their questions to be asked and answered, and

God willing, we'll get to as many of you as we can before the end of.

The program.

If you'd like to join them, please try to send us an email as quickly as you can at chrisarnson at

gmail .com.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Don't go away.

We will be right back after these messages with Brian G. Hedges.

So don't go away.

Chris Arnson here, and I can't wait to head down to Atlanta, Georgia, and here's my friend Dr. James White to tell you why.

Hi, I'm James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries.

I hope you join me at the G3 Conference hosted by Pastor Josh Bice and Praise Mill Baptist Church at

the Georgia International Convention Center in Atlanta January 19th through the 21st in

celebration of the 500th anniversary of the Protestant Reformation.

I'll be joined by Paul Washer, Steve Lawson, D .A. Carson, Votie Balcombe, Conrad M. Bayway,

Phil Johnson, Rosaria Butterfield, Todd Friel, and a host of other speakers who are dedicated to the

pillars of what G3 stands for, gospel, grace, and glory.

For more details, go to g3conference .com.

That's g3conference .com.

Thanks, James.

Make sure you greet me at the Iron Sharpens Iron exhibit booth while you're there.

Paul wrote to the church at Galatia, For am I now seeking the approval of man or of God, or am I trying

to please man?

If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ.

Hi, I'm Mark Lukens, pastor of Providence Baptist Church.

We are a Reformed Baptist Church and we hold to the London Baptist Confession of Faith of 1689.

We are in Norfolk, Massachusetts.

We strive to reflect Paul's mindset to be much more concerned with how God views what we say and what we do

than how men view these things.

That's not the best recipe for popularity, but since that wasn't the apostles' priority, it must not be ours either.

We believe, by God's grace, that we are called to demonstrate love and compassion to our fellow man and to be

vessels of Christ's mercy to a lost and hurting community around us and to build up the body of Christ in truth and

love.

If you live near Norfolk, Massachusetts, or plan to visit our area, please come and join us for worship and fellowship.

You can call us at 508 -528 -5750.

That's 508 -528 -5750.

Or go to our website to email us, listen to past sermons, worship songs, or watch our TV program entitled,

Resting in Grace.

You can find us at providencebaptistchurchma .org.

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Or even on sermonaudio .com.

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Hi,

I'm Pastor Bill Shishko, inviting you to tune in to a visit to the pastor's study every Saturday from

12 noon to 1 pm on WLIE Radio.

Www .wlie540am .com.

We bring biblically faithful pastoral ministry to you, and we invite you to visit the pastor's study by calling in with your

questions.

Our time will be lively, useful, sometimes controversial, but never dull.

Join us this Saturday at 12 noon for a visit to the pastor's study, because everyone needs a

pastor.

That's 12 noon to 1 pm Eastern Time on WLIE 540 AM on the radio dial

in the New York Tri -State area, or anywhere in the world via live streaming at

wlie540am .com.

And please listen every week and call in as often as possible to a visit to the pastor's study.

If you just tuned us in, our guest today for the full two hours is Brian G. Hedges.

For the next hour, we are going to be discussing Christ Formed in You.

If you'd like to join us on the air, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Before we return to our guest, I want to announce once again that the

Iron Sharpens Iron Pastor's Luncheon is going to be held, God willing, on Thursday,

January 12th from 11 am to 3 pm Eastern Standard Time in

Carlisle, Pennsylvania at the gorgeous catering facility known as the Carlisle Vault.

This is an early 20th century bank that has been

transformed into a catering hall, a gorgeous catering hall.

And we thank the folks that own the Carlisle Vault for making this a very, very affordable

event for us to have, knowing that this is exclusively for men in ministry.

And we also are going to be dining on a sumptuous meal, and

we are going to be giving probably 30 -40 books, a

large sack, sturdy canvas sack of books, by

Christian authors donated to us by the major Christian publishers all

over the United States and the United Kingdom.

And we really hope that as many men as possible can attend this.

This is for men only, and we cannot accommodate the wives.

We apologize for that.

But if you want more details, email me at chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com and put pastor's luncheon in the subject line.

Also, on the following night, Friday the 13th, that is,

we are going to be having the Iron Sharpens Iron Great Debate between

Roman Catholic apologist Robert Syngenis of Catholic

Apologetics International.

He is going to be debating Dr. Tony Costa, Professor of Apologetics at

Toronto Baptist Seminary.

On the theme, Mary, Sinless Queen of Heaven or Sinner Saved by Grace.

Tickets are $5 apiece.

It's going to be held at the Carlisle Theater, a gorgeous old early 20th century

theater that has been restored.

And I am hoping that people fly from all over the United States, perhaps even from other parts of

the world, to attend this debate.

This is a 900 -seat theater, and we hope to see every seat filled.

For more details, please email me at chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com and put Mary Debate in the subject

line.

We'll get back to you with all the details that you need.

And once again, as I said before I began announcing those events,

we have on our program right now Brian G. Hedges.

We're talking about Christ Formed in You.

And we do have our listener in Slovenia again, our friend Joe in Slovenia,

who says, I was encouraged to see that the central claim in Christ

formed in you is that it is God's purpose to change us by

progressively making us more like Jesus, and that this happens only as we understand and

apply the gospel to our lives.

Please contrast this Christ -centered focus with so much of what we see in the

seeker -driven models of self -help and moral therapeutic deism

that is so common in many areas of the visible church today.

And again, you know, I would just agree that so often what

people hear is

something like where the

focus that we do on making, you know,

and what I'm trying to

do in that book is

the key to

faith alone,

and the gospel is also the key to our sanctification to learn to live

through union with Christ.

And that

being said, to do,

so what

I'm advocating is nothing, it's not antinomianism, it's

not let go

through the renewing of our mind, and

that only.

Well, thank you, Joe, again for submitting that other question, and we're going to send you off a free copy of

Christ Formed in You as well.

Thank you for providing an American mailing address for these books.

We'll have these shipped to your daughter, God willing, in a week or so by our friends at Cumberland Valley Bible Book

Service, and we thank again those who provided these books,

Shepherd Press, for their generosity.

Yeah, when we come to these kind of topics, don't we have to make it clear

that we believe that justification and sanctification are two very

important and necessary elements of a person's salvation, but they're not interchangeable, and

that we are not accepted into

heaven by God on the basis of our transformation, it's by His imputed righteousness

alone, but those whom He justified will certainly

be transformed, and we will be sanctified, and we will bear fruit, etc.

Uh, going back again to the whole crux of the issue of the

debate between Rome and the Reformers, isn't this a necessary distinction when we're talking about this?

It is.

It's a necessary distinction between justification and sanctification.

I like the

way, and I think it's

firmly rooted in the person.

We might say it this way, and I'm probably repeating what

some others

say, what we get in the gospel is Christ.

He's not a genie

who's just dispensing blessings of justification.

What we get is Jesus and the Lord, and then

Christ works in our lives in these various ways as

new life, in

newness of life,

and therefore a changed life will necessarily follow

in us.

That's an excellent clarification that we actually receive Christ, and it really

highlights the bankruptcy of the Word of Faith movement, the name -it -and

-claim -it prosperity gospel of many heretical

Charismatics and Pentecostals.

And I'm not broad -brushing, there are many Charismatics and Pentecostals who reject

those heretical notions as much as we do, and perhaps are even more embarrassed by them because they're

affiliated, unfortunately, with them when people broad -brush those movements.

But they want stuff, you know, they want money, they want health,

they want things, and it is Jesus Christ that we should be wanting more than

anything when we are saved, isn't that?

Yeah, that's right.

And tell us more about specifically what you mean by the title Christ formed

in you.

Well, I'm

drawing that,

or the

key words in that phrase,

and

so what

I liken this

to conformity to Christ, a key verse

both for my life and for this book is read in verse

18, the

glory of the Lord, where we are being from

one degree of glory to the next.

Anyways, that

verse, as we

behold the glory of Christ.

And we have B .B. in Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, who wants to know,

uh, is your book dealing with the heretical easy -believism that is rampant

amongst modern evangelicals who rightly believe in justification by faith

alone, but have distorted it to become a lie that the Bible never

intended, that those who are born again can live any way they please without

fear of retribution or damnation and without transformation?

That's in this book.

What I'm trying to do, rather, is just somewhat

a homage of God,

and then that image,

and then to

redeem us in

the Christian worldview of creation, fall, redemption, restoration,

and then begin looking very specifically at what the

god -biblical doctrine

of sin

called the regenerating work.

All of that is in part one of the book, and that's just laying the foundation for then understanding the practical aspect

as we deal with sin and as we're in likeness to Christ.

By the way, B .B., you have also won a free copy of Christ Formed in You, The Power of the Gospel

for Personal Change by Brian G. Hedges.

Please give us your full mailing address in Cumberland County so we can have that shipped to.

You.

If you could, tell us about the fact that the curse is

canceled.

God's judgment on sin, and so when

into the curse of sin

with him.

And in the book of Galatians, Paul, everyone who

does not do everything that the law requires and commands is under a curse.

And then gloriously, Paul tells us that Christ has redeemed us by

becoming a curse for us.

And so I'm using in Christ Formed

in You to really give us a window.

The

obedience

of

Christ

fully born is canceled, and

the guilt is removed, and we are

righteous in God's sight.

And you also discuss the cure has begun.

It's a phrase,

and I use

that as

an

illustration

of

regeneration.

I think Richard Lovelace is the one who said regeneration is in our lives.

The cure

had

begun.

And I think something like that is very true.

If we are in Christ, we are a new creation.

The old has passed away, and the new has come.

And that is a

reality for everyone in learning

to live true to our identity, our new identity in Christ.

And you know, this may seem like a simplistic question, and

people may scratch their heads while I'm even asking it, but sometimes when we do a program

like this, and we talk about deep theological truths, sometimes we take it, or at least sometimes I

take it for granted that everybody listening is a Christian, is theologically

sound, is in a biblically solid church.

They know what we are discussing when we use words like the gospel.

And sometimes I have to remind myself, as I have discovered, sometimes we have Muslims listening to

this program.

Sometimes we have people of all kinds of religions or agnostics or atheists listening.

If you could just tell us what the gospel is that we are discussing today.

Yeah, thank you, Chris, for asking that question.

Important question.

The word gospel means good news.

And it really

is the Lord Jesus Christ.

Perfect life on our behalf.

That Jesus died the death we should have died.

Calvary, the judgment of our sins.

He bore the penalty.

And then he was raised again.

Bought new life and resurrection.

The key passage that I would go to is John 13,

verses 3 and 4, where Paul is reminding his readers of the gospel that

he had received and that he had preached.

The essence of

it, of the

world, is then

reaching up to

God.

It is

a religion of grace, not of works.

It's not what we do, it's what comes on our behalf.

And the gospel tells us that that work is to

embrace the gospel.

Amen.

And I remember reading the great Calvinist

Episcopal bishop, or Anglican bishop of the 19th century, J .C. Ryle,

who is at least Amaraldian, if not Calvinist.

He basically was urging people when they are in the depths of

sadness, despair, due to illness or tragedy,

that reflecting on our love for Christ is very dissatisfying.

That the only way we're going to find peace is when we look to Christ's love for us.

Because Christ's love for us is perfect.

And our love for him is sadly something that is very insufficient

and inconsistent.

And it's very beautifully unfolded in the gospel that you just

provided us today.

And we're going to be going to our very final break right now.

If you would like to join us on the air with a question for Brian Hedges, we have a couple of people still waiting.

But if you'd like to join them before we run out of time, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail dot com.

Chrisarnson at gmail dot com.

Please give us your first name, your city and state and country of residence.

You may remain anonymous if it's about a personal and private matter.

But otherwise, please at least identify yourself by name, city, state and country.

We're going to be right back after these messages, God willing.

So don't go away.

I am Chris Arnsen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, here to tell you about an exciting offer from World

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I'm Chris Arnzen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, and here's one of my favorite guests, Todd Friel, to

tell you about a conference he and I are going to.

Hello, this is Todd Friel, host of Wretched Radio and Wretched TV and

occasional guest on Chris's show, Iron Criticizing

Iron.

I think that's what it's called.

Hoping that you can join Chris and me at the G3 Conference in Atlanta, my new

hometown.

It is going to be a bang -up conference called the G3 Conference

celebrating the 500th anniversary of the Protestant Reformation with Paul Washer,

Steve Lawson, D .A. Carson, Votie Baucom, Conrad and Bayway, Phil Johnson, James White, and a bunch of other people.

We hope to see you there.

Learn more at G3conference .com.

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Thanks, Todd.

I think.

See you at the Iron Sharpens Iron Exhibitor's booth.

Hi, I'm Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

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Hi, I'm Pastor Bill Shishko, inviting you to tune in to a visit to the pastor's study every

Saturday from 12 noon to 1 pm on WLIE radio, www

.wlie540am .com.

We bring biblically faithful pastoral ministry to you, and we invite you to visit the pastor's study by calling in with your

questions.

Our time will be lively, useful, sometimes controversial, but never dull.

Join us this Saturday at 12 noon for a visit to the pastor's study, because everyone needs a

pastor.

That's 12 noon eastern time to 1 pm eastern time on WLIE 540

AM radio.

If you live in the New York Tri -State area, but you can hear it anywhere in the world via live

streaming at wlie540am .com, that's

wlie540am .com.

That's a visit to the pastor's study hosted by Pastor Bill Shishko of the Orthodox

Presbyterian Church, and I hope that you listen often and call in often.

For those of you who have been hearing my ads about the G3 conference in Atlanta, Georgia this

January 19th through the 21st, there is an update that some of you may be unaware.

Of.

On the 18th of January, the day before the conference begins at

the same hall there, the convention center in Atlanta, Georgia, Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega

Ministries is going to be debating Roman Catholic apologist Trent Horn,

who is on the apologetic team at Catholic Answers, and they are debating on the topic,

can a Christian lose his or her salvation?

And for more details on that, go to aomin .org, that's

aomin .org, it stands for Alpha and Omega Ministries, a -o -m -i -n .org,

or you could go to g3conference .com, g3conference .com, and I hope to see many

of you there at the debate and the G3 conference.

I will be manning an exhibitor's booth there, so please, if you are going to the conference, come to the

booth and say hello.

And also, if you're registering, please tell the folks at the G3 conference at Praise Mill Baptist

Church who are running that conference, please tell them that you heard about it from Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

And once again, as you heard earlier, I am running a debate as well between

Dr. Tony Costa of Toronto Baptist Seminary and Robert St. Genes of

Catholic Apologetics International on January 13th,

that's at the Carlisle Theater in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, at 7pm.

Tickets are $5 to that, and for more details, email me at chrisarnson at gmail

.com, chrisarnson at gmail .com, and please put

Mary debate in the subject line, the theme is Mary, Sinless

Queen of Heaven, or Sinner Saved by Grace.

We are, if you just tuned in, we are discussing Christ Formed in You with

our guest Brian G. Hedges, who has been our guest for the last 90 minutes and will be our guest

for the next 20 minutes or so to come, and our email address if you have questions is chrisarnson at

gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com.

What do you mean, Brian, about sanctification and closing the gap?

And in our Christian

lives, if we are united to Christ,

we are sons and daughters of God, we are indwelled by the Spirit, our

eternal destiny, and yet, and

we all know

this,

families and churches, and

so we're all learning to close the gap, and the

character wants to work in us, in changing us, making us

more like his son, conforming us to the image of Christ, and there's not a Christian alive who cannot

make further progress, all of us can, closing the gap, closing the gap between position

and practice.

And what do you mean when you describe holiness as captivated by beauty?

Hello?

Brian, are you there?

I think we may have been disconnected.

Brian, well, I'll tell you what, we are going to a break, and hopefully

we'll be reconnected with Brian, somehow we got disconnected from him,

so hopefully he'll call us back, and in the meantime, give us an email if you'd like to

join us on the air at chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at

gmail .com, and we will be right back after these messages, God willing, with Brian G. Hedges.

Hi, I'm Chris Arnson, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, here to tell you about an exciting offer from World

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Welcome back.

I believe we have Brian Hedges back on the line.

Do we have Brian on?

And we don't have Brian on.

I'm not sure what's happening here, so we're going to go to one more break, and hopefully Brian will be connected with us.

And hello, Brian, can you hear us?

Yes.

I don't know what happened there, brother.

I don't know.

I just realized after a minute that I've been talking and there was no response.

Yeah, and I heard dead silence, and so did our listeners on the other end.

So it was kind of strange.

I asked you about holiness being described in your book as captivated by beauty.

That's right.

Yeah, so

that's

beauty and light,

for example, of

Isaiah's vision about

the holy.

You also talk about killing sin, otherwise known as

mortification, and that's obviously something to do with another book you've written,

License to Kill, I believe.

But if you could discuss that.

Yeah, so if I could just back up a little bit.

Sure.

What I've seen in scripture and I've learned in my

reading of other wonderful authors on this is that

the gospel, it's fine in the last half.

He died for our

earth and resurrection,

but

we also have which we

are sanctified

from the dead.

We are cleansed of life.

And you see that pattern, for example, in Roman chapters

as well.

And so when we start connecting the dots then between this gospel story, death, resurrection of

Christ, and what we are now called to do, dying to sin and living in

righteousness and holiness.

Practical in one of those is this discipline of putting sin to death,

or the old Puritans called it.

Paul describes that again in chapter eight, if you by the spirit put to

death the deeds of the body, you will live.

And also in Colossians chapter three, where he tells us to put to death

and desires and sin and ungodliness and so on.

And so that's what mortification in our lives.

And I want to make sure that I read this really wonderful commendation for this book by Stephen

J. Lawson, who has been on this program, who is also going to be one of the speakers at the G3 conference in

January that I will be going to.

Looking forward to seeing him again, speak and preach.

Stephen J. Lawson writes, Brian Hedges has done the church a great service in writing this book,

which reveals the God intended path of sanctification.

The ultimate goal in spiritual maturity is to transform believers into the image

of Christ.

Those who apply the message of this insightful book will, by God's grace, find

themselves growing into authentic Christ likeness.

And for those of you who didn't or do not win a free copy today, please

seriously consider purchasing this book from our friends at ShepardPress .com.

ShepardPress .com and of course our sponsors, Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service,

CVBBS .com.

CVBBS .com has a very wide assortment of Shepard Press titles in stock,

so we urge you to go to their website as well.

And this, in fact, there's a listener we have.

We have Christopher in Suffolk County, Long Island, New York, who wants to know,

is taking up our cross and following Christ about this

mortification you speak of?

I think that mortification is, in its

original concept, disciples, if anyone would follow me, he must deny himself.

Someone

carried,

and to

follow Christ, that's

also

an

aspect

of mortification,

and that would be the other aspect.

To follow Christ is to choose a life that at times will invite

suffering.

Chapter 3, all who desire to live a godly life in Christ.

And thank you, Christopher, and you're also getting a free copy of Christ Formed in You if you give us your full

mailing address in Suffolk County, New York.

Thank you very much.

You discuss growing in grace, and you describe it as vivification, if you could

explain further.

This would be

the second

counterpart to this

gospel walk

in Peter uses.

You

have the

God's

chosen

people, compassion, and kindness, and patience, and we are to bear

with one another and forgive one another in Colossians chapter 3.

So that's the pattern you see over and again in Scripture.

There's always a negative, and then that follows.

We imitate Christ.

You go on to talk about something that I think that we who are theologically reformed need

to hear about more often.

The quest for joy as our motivation.

It's funny how we who are reformed may have a tendency to

be dreary and depressing people to those around us.

And not all of us, but many of us, unfortunately, live up to the caricature

that has been painted of us.

And we forget the fact that the very first question in the Shorter Catechism is that the chief end of

man is to adore God and to enjoy Him forever.

And you have, as this next portion of your book, the quest for joy as

a motivation, if you could comment.

Yeah, Chris.

And, you know, I really owe thinking on this.

And that's, we'll be familiar with

John Piper's.

And he actually dared to use the word hedonism, didn't he?

He does.

He does.

He goes so far

as to use the, and that

book was 18 years ago.

And in the introduction to Reformed in You, he actually,

the

Westminster,

enjoying Him.

Forever.

Amen.

So he's being deeply satisfied in Him.

And not so much in his gifts, the things that he gives us, but in God himself.

And that awakened me to the

language of inscription.

And I do think it's in our sanctification,

because if we still believe that there's going to be more joy and more

pleasure found in sin, and

so one of the great battles, I think, in

our lives,

and the

reality is that in the

ministry of the

Spirit, and

that's why one of

the

fruit of the Spirit

is joy, of joy and satisfaction in

God.

And of course, we are to enjoy Him forever.

And our chief end is not to achieve personal happiness at all costs, which seems to be

a message of the modern evangelical pulpit.

It is.

With the message, really, it actually is so simple.

It proves, and

we need

that

same.

And since we're running out of time, if you could very briefly talk about the Refiner's Fire, and how

suffering is a part of our sanctification.

Very briefly, if you could.

Yeah, so that's the end.

There really are three ways that God—well, disciplines

is one way, the church is one, and that chapter is

really just him suffering, and how he uses suffering.

Oh, yeah.

That the rod is God's pensively upon us.

Yeah, and Banner of Truth has some excellent books republished

by Thomas Watson.

Yeah, that's right.

Well, I thank you so much for your wonderful contribution to our program today.

And I know that Shepherd's Press, or Shepherd Press, I should say,

their website for those wanting to order your books is shepherdpress .com,

shepherdpress .com, and the Fulkerson Park Baptist Church website is

fulkersonpark .com, f -u -l -k -e -r -s -o -n -park .com.

I want to thank you for being on the program.

I want to thank all of our listeners who listened today, especially those that made the effort to write in questions.

I hope you have a blessed, safe, and joyful and Christ -honoring weekend and Lord's Day.

And I hope you all always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater

Savior than you are a sinner.

We look forward to hearing from you and your questions next week for our guests on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

God bless.