FBC Orlando Follow Up

Hello ladies and gentlemen, my name is Justin Peters.

I hope that you and your family are doing well today.

I want to thank you so much for joining me.

So this is a follow -up video to the one that I did a month or so ago on first

Baptist Orlando in which I talked about how first Baptist Orlando now openly admits that

they.

Have.

Transgendered people LGBTQ people who are growing and serving in their church,

and they said that any healthy church must have Heretics and sexually immoral

people and if you don't have those folks in your church, well, you don't have a healthy church.

And so this is a follow -up video.

I'm going to interview two men in this video Casey Butner who is the pastor of Beulah

Baptist Church in Winter Garden, Florida just outside of Orlando and Tom Buck

who's a pastor of First Baptist Church in Lindale, Texas.

So first with Casey.

Casey knows Danny Dearmus the senior associate pastor of First Baptist

Orlando and With all that has been revealed with that church long story short

he got in touch with Danny Dearmus and asked for a meeting and

That request was granted and he went to it and had a rather interesting

conversation with Danny Dearmus another Pastor there and as well as David Youth

the senior pastor of First Baptist Orlando, and he's going to tell us about what was

discussed what was said at that meeting as well as He has received and I have too, but he has

received Some emails from people who are at First Baptist Orlando and

They affirm that First Baptist Orlando is indeed baptizing open homosexuals

transgendered people Baptizing them.

So this is this is shocking and I've seen some folks There's a YouTube channel out there that has

criticized my video on First Baptist Orlando saying I've taken them out of context.

And it's a faithful church and Justin's just smearing and attacking them.

Well No, no, this will put any of those

doubts to rest and I'm also going to interview Tom Buck and Tom has had some

email exchanges with The North American Mission Board now for those of you who are not Southern Baptist that

is the kind of the home mission board of the Southern Baptist Convention planning churches and

He emailed Nam as it's called in Southern Baptist circles emailed Nam because

First Baptist Orlando and Nam have had they have a working relationship and

he asked Nam if they are willing to partner with a church that

baptizes homosexuals baptizes transgendered people and Tom is going to share those

Emails with us and the responses that he received and this will be very eye

-opening in a in a very sad unfortunate Dispiriting kind of a way,

but we need to know what is going on the social justice train all of those cars the

egalitarian car the racial car the Homosexual car all those

cars are coming in full Bore and As I've said before as Tom

about Dom Tom Buck has said before Once that engine gets in your church, all these cars are coming along with the

economic car as well.

So That's just to set up.

I think I will put some I'll put the links to Casey's Church and Tom's Church down below in the

description as well as some time stamps.

So you can kind of this will be a bit of a longer video And so you'll be able to navigate a little bit more quickly

if you want to come back to it or View certain parts again.

All right.

Well, thank you very much dear ones.

Here we go Casey brother.

Thank you so very much for joining me today.

Yes, sir. Good to be here with you Justin.

Yeah. Yeah.

Hard to believe it's been almost a year since I was with you.

I guess last May but Really enjoyed our time together and Lord willing Look forward to worshiping

with you again sometime and I really thank you for your faithful service Casey.

Appreciate it, man.

Thank you for coming.

Justin, you know, I would say it's been a long time since I've seen you.

But what was it last week?

We were at the Shepherds Conference or the week prior.

Yeah, sure word.

Was that.

No that wasn't your first Shepherds.

You've been to those before but it was a good time, wasn't it?

I sure was man.

It was it was a great time and I've been sorry I stood you up.

I asked if I could sit beside of you in the worship center and Man, I found a good comfortable seat

outside and it felt bad and I I got the fellowship with you anyway.

So that was great.

That's right.

Well, the weather was beautiful.

So I don't blame you for sitting outside.

So Casey, let's dive right in here brother.

You and I share concerns with things that we have seen in the SPC for the mass last several

years.

Number of years.

Full disclosure.

I'm not in the SPC anymore.

I was born and reared in the SPC.

Went to an SPC seminary Southwestern Fort Worth, but.

Now I'm part of a non -denominational church, but but your church is still part of

the SPC.

You are pastor of Beulah Baptist Church in Winter Garden, Florida and

We're gonna be talking primarily today about the compromise capitulation that we've seen on the issue of

Homosexuality in the SPC and the SPC has always

been very clear on this issue, but.

Things have begun to change in the last handful of years haven't they?

They sure have you know, that was absolutely floored when James Merritt endorsed his son's

message.

His son not only you know is a homosexual but also Was said

by his dad to have preached a message that was faithful to the gospel and it was anything but

right.

And How does a man who was a prior president of the Southern Baptist? Convention

who stood before us and lied to us in Nashville at an annual convention that were not

Adhering to critical race theory, but yet at the same time they do it.

So they say one thing and do another you'll know a man by their fruit.

How do these things?

Continue to be defended.

I'm also in a state of awe.

I'm shocked at how all of this has happened.

There are previous president JD Greer said that homosexuality will not send you to hell.

How do I know that.

Because heterosexuality?

Will not send you to heaven.

Homosexuality does not send you to hell.

You know how I know that because heterosexuality does not send you to heaven.

Homosexuality does not send people to hell.

How do I know that.

Because heterosexuality doesn't send people to heaven and all of these clever Clichés are not rooted in

Scripture.

In fact, they're the exact opposite of Scripture and We're sitting back thinking

we have got to address these things because they're creeping in through pragmatism.

Through.

Capitulation through giving into the ways of the world through all of these different things.

They're being defended and and and and affirmed.

It's scary.

Yeah, it really is.

Yeah, we've got the the current president Ed Litton of the SPC who is not only a serial plagiarist,

but also He said the same thing Greer did of course plagiarize what Greer said that

Homosexuality will not send you to hell.

It's just shocking to me and you mentioned James Merritt former president of the SPC

Endorsing his homosexual son's sermon and also Closer

geographically speaking anyway to your neck of the woods.

You're you're right outside of Orlando there First Baptist Church, Orlando.

Which is a massive massive Southern Baptist Church.

Quick timeline of events so back in 2016 there was the shooting at the Pulse

nightclub where what was it 58?

Something like that for anyway 50 something people were murdered by a

Muslim Murderer shooter and he went in but Pulse a Pulse the Pulse nightclub

is a homosexual club.

It's a gay bar.

And so the safe assumption there is that the vast majority of people in there If

not were homosexual themselves were affirming of that lifestyle.

And so given what scripture says all of those people died and

Faced the wrath of God because of what first Corinthians 6 teaches such will not inherit the

kingdom of God.

But they had a memorial service In in memory of that shooting of those

who lost their lives and I watched that you've seen this clip.

The service and they ushered in all of those murder victims ushered him in straight into

heaven and one of the guest speakers shockingly said that the chief cornerstone of first Peter

chapter 2 is He identified the chief cornerstone as a LGBTQ

Community, which is a shockingly blasphemous thing to say.

There was a scripture found in first Peter chapter 2 That

says until you therefore which believe He being

Christ is precious But until then which be disobedient

stone which the builders disallowed same as made the headstone of the corner

and Stone stumbling in a rock of offense even to them which stumble at

the word being disobedient Where to also they were appointed.

But you are.

Chosen.

A royal priesthood.

A holy nation.

A peculiar people.

Read this passage and I thought about all of the things that's happening and the word peculiar jumped out.

Because what we find is that in our peculiarities in life.

We're not peculiar because of race gender or creed but

in Orlando, we are peculiar because the people are the sooner out

of many come one.

We are peculiar because we have leadership That knows how to follow.

We have leaders like Dyer and Jacob who know how to follow a

Demings and Mina and the rise to the occasion.

We are peculiar because we know how to let theological differences and

Disputes and factions not get in the way of love and Christ.

We are

Junior I'll tell you because we believe in the word and what others would have

against us.

What others would show as a stumbling stone?

We've elevated to be the head of the corner and right now no matter what the presence and people of

mine may think That LBGTQ area is the head cornerstone.

And we are here to lift up and magnify and allow them to know that regardless of people's

opinion regardless of where we are love.

Triumphs over evil.

And then.

Casey how more recently just Couple of months or so ago as of this recording.

The pastor and senior pastor senior associate pastor David youth and Danny de Armas

respectively, they both preach sermons one Sunday after the other and they said

that Homeless they have homosexuals in their church that are growing and

serving.

They have LGBTQ.

They have transgendered people growing and serving and they're worshiping in their church.

We have longtime members of 50 -plus years Greeting and welcoming new people who are walking in for

the very first time.

We have those who love traditional music and hymns and those who know only contemporary music.

We have choir lovers and non music lovers a pipe organ and loud

electric guitars.

We have the 99 year old World War two hero and The millennial immigrant who

doesn't know anything about American history sitting on the same row and listening and learning about Jesus together.

We have transgender LGBTQ straight single

married divorced and cohabitating people these same people attend listen

serve grow and give and In the midst of all of this

We have one of the most beautiful worship experiences you can possibly imagine because all of us

gather around the good news of Jesus and the one who is changing us and the one who unifies us and

We celebrate how he has set us all free from our bondage to sin and given us eternal life.

Jose.

We are first.

Orlando.

And and that a healthy church.

David youth quoted an article by Erwin McManus saying that every healthy church must

have sexually immoral people and heretics in the church in order to be

healthy.

So let me read you an article I came across.

I thought this was very interesting the timing of it.

I Once heard he quotes somebody and the somebody he quotes is from this church.

He grew up here and he pastors a church in California.

His name is Erwin McManus.

He quotes the article quotes him.

Listen to this.

I once heard Erwin McManus say every truly healthy church has two things

heretics and people who are sexually immoral.

To translate a church that consists of only committed Christians probably has lost sight of its mission and Resembles more the

frozen chosen than the messy community that God has in mind that journeys with people as they discover

Jesus.

So.

Talk to us a little bit about that and the concerns that obviously cost you and what you've done

about it since it.

Yes, sir.

Well to kind of back up there with you.

That was shocking to see there at First Baptist that David youth

participated in Affirming the destination of those unregenerate

poor folks.

We wish that that had not have happened.

But the them and their families aside and our condolences still go to

them.

For certain sure.

We're talking about David youth.

So that being the case the subject at hand here in First Baptist, Orlando

if Titus 1 9 is right in the middle of the qualifications for a faithful pastor and

elder and you must according to verse 9 not only exhort sound doctrine, but

refute those who contradict it and So for David not to have corrected

that cornerstone issue disqualifies him completely

and For him not to have corrected it even later or say anything about it.

But in fact, he has defended it.

That's right.

That is very clear.

I'm personally very concerned as well With the members of First Baptist, Orlando in their

lack of discernment.

So that's a real issue, but I understand the frog in the pan illustration.

I understand longtime, you know conditioning.

I understand The victim's person, you know place of their Orlando, but it's

time to wake up and to compare Scripture with what's being done and don't listen,

but look and so nevertheless David has continued to do these

things and if you continue to read in verse 13 and Titus it says to reprove these type

Severely, and so I have no qualms at all with being clear.

With what's going wrong there?

He Obviously and is not a compliment arian.

He does not preach sound doctrine.

In fact, he's an eagle a tear and he is an outspoken Eagle a tear and so much so that he placed

a woman pastor in a preaching slot at the Pastors Convention

preceding the Southern Baptist Convention that got canceled due to kovat in 2020.

Yeah, so you can't you couldn't be any more loud and clear and he

would say well she wasn't going to preach but you go on the website to where she is a

staff member and you see that she is a pastor and she's being put in a Preaching slot.

All of this is conditioning.

We're just trying to move this type of stuff in slowly.

And if we don't speak up, it's going to take root.

Well, it already has.

All of this stuff is so rooted in and we'll get to that but nevertheless.

Now the case is just building over time and over time and and now you've kind of gotten to the point to

where even Danny the arm is would read this email

to his staff members and staff and then read it

publicly and a preaching forum and Proclaim clearly that

those who are D all the above serve here and are baptized at First Baptist

Orlando and so upon hearing that I was greatly

disturbed.

So I sent an email to Danny right away.

I couldn't send an email to David as well.

His email is not on the website, but I've got Danny's cell phone number.

We've met in the past.

We've talked.

We're only 12 miles away from one another.

Yeah, so we live close by it's you know, one of those things Matt just email him and I said

Danny What is this?

Man, you're no better than Eli in the Old Testament who enabled gross immorality in the temple if this is true.

We've got to meet.

I'm the moderator the senior moderator of the Greater Orlando Baptist Association.

First Baptist Orlando is in our association week.

We strive to keep a clean camp.

There's no immorality that should be even be mentioned among you according, you know to the scriptures.

Yeah, so can we discuss this and I emailed him and in that email also

said by the way.

This is the second email and I'll tell you now why I said that

weeks prior the North American Mission Board had hosted a Pastors luncheon

their First Baptist, Orlando and I don't know 60 pastors or so 75 pastors

came and we had lunch and we're at roundtables and There was a representative from NAM

there to preach to us and so Danny and Pastor David youth were there at a

table beside of us and and through that preaching right there in the middle, man.

He felt to the need I guess to drop a four -letter word and

I looked around and Unfortunately, there was laughter in the room.

Danny laughed.

David youth laughed and I was completely appalled.

So I took out a little note and I wrote a note to this guy Matt and I said Matt What a

first Peter one, you know 16 that says be holy for I'm holy.

You know and then I said there's no room for profanity while preaching especially that

preaching on prayer.

Yeah, you say that you preach all around the nation behalf of NAM do you

use profanity all across the nation and so I put my name and my phone number

folded in half and at the end I looked around and Unfortunately, I didn't

see anybody else Disturbed except for the pastor that was right beside of me.

So I went over there and gave him the note handed it to him and he was good enough to give me a call.

And he said brother.

I Appreciate your rebuke and I should not have done that and I don't do that around the nation.

So there was you know some recognition there, but

I Called or I mean, I emailed Danny and and I said Danny did you you know,

correct this brother in your house?

It's no secret.

You run the show here first for Orlando David preaches and pastors and you you're

the executive administrator.

You you have to lock down at all you hire and fire staff you you do it.

You run the place.

Did you correct him?

And I didn't get a response back.

But when I emailed him about him using the word serve while preaching referring

to the LGBT community Here growing in Christ and serving.

And said this is my second email by the way, and I sent that off.

I got a response and I'm not You know surprised that I got us a response.

But he assured me I had nothing to worry about everything is fine.

Blah blah blah and he put me in touch with his assistant and his assistant.

Scheduled an appointment for us about 10 days later to be able to to meet and so I was

really you know I was looking forward to being able to talk with Danny about this over

the years.

I've had deep concerns of the direction of first Baptist, Orlando hundreds

and hundreds of families have left first, Orlando over the years.

Due to the slow fate and I was even on the phone with one this morning.

Whom's parents had been there has been still are there been there for 40 years and so

their children now have children so you have Generations there at first, Orlando.

Yeah and so The one whom I was talking to said that the children's

ministry was no longer being taught the Word of God.

They were being taught things like how to be kind and how to be generous.

But they weren't learning the word and so they were concerned and then their youth

Felt like that.

The youth ministry was a party.

They felt like It was the place to be for fun.

They were using attractional methods and the same thing.

They just were not learning the Word of God and so these concerns.

Then were voiced to David and Danny I guess and there was no real response.

And then the question was asked as well in this particular meeting.

This was a couple years ago.

Why David doesn't Hunker down and really tackle the subjects and teach sound

doctrine.

Yeah, and the response was unfavorable enough to where the younger to

Left and brought their kids with them and joined other churches now their parents are still

faithful and first Baptist has three services the first one is A traditional

service that would be as contemporary as any contemporary service, but it's it is what it is.

But you know the older generation are very faithful To their local

church, but at the same time lack a little bit of discernment there and So

there's a separation a division in the families and so you have this slow fade it's been

happening over years and years and now we finally get to the point to where Danny used the word

serve and It was kind of like throwing a little pebble in the pond to see what

ripples would happen what kind of pushback would happen and Notice it wasn't

David that mentioned this that kind of led the charge on on this church direction on

embracing unregenerate unsafe people into Positions of service and greeting

and so forth around.

It was Danny.

And so I called Danny and I wanted to talk to him he I came to

the arranged time and Went there to meet and I was taken up and

lo and behold there were other pastors that were invited to the meeting and.

I.

Thought I was meeting with Danny and nobody told me anything.

Otherwise and.

One of the other pastors there said I didn't know you didn't know.

And then David youth walks in and.

He's invited it.

It almost it almost sounds like an ambush as opposed to what you were expecting.

It was very different from what I was expecting and nevertheless

Justin I'll tell you what they had to say was was all ready

ready and Danny had his script ready and

In short, all it is, you know an emotional ploy from when

his dad Started a coffee shop and was able to reach the hippies.

I guess back in the 70s and that rejected People

felt Acceptance in the coffee shop and started finding Christ as Lord and Savior praise God, right?

It's You know, I'm very evangelistic sure, and so I

participate in the same form of evangelism.

But where he's gone wrong is that he's conflated a coffee shop with the Church of God.

See the Church of God is right already have the ministries prescribed according to the scriptures.

So nevertheless you cannot Put someone who is unregistered in to a

place of service on behalf of the local Church of God and place here you know affirmation upon that

lifestyle and Hope that they will be safe because that will infect Everyone

around them and it just is violate scripture to begin with nevertheless I was there to talk about that, but that's

what Danny had to say a coffee shop the church Conflating the two here's how we

can win the LGBT community and then it was David's turn and he

told me a story of conversion and Obviously, it was

geared towards the heart and the emotions and they took up the majority of the time with these

stories.

And so I substantiated what I had to say was scripture.

They told stories.

We kind of went back and forth, right?

So my appeal to the members of First Baptist Orlando would be don't don't listen with your

heart.

Jeremiah 17 9 says, you know that the heart is a deceiver and desperately wicked and who can

trust it.

And so we can't discern with our emotions.

We must use our mind and look at the scriptures and actually look what is being said.

So my concern generally is for the homosexual Community for the

LGBT folks there at First Baptist for the members to discern what truly is

right, according to the Word of God and Submit yourselves and ourselves

to the scriptures.

So nevertheless in the conversation they ever so kindly started to

maneuver me into a Category that they were painting and I quickly picked up on

the fact that they were Creating a dichotomy here between two camps and I was

coming to them based upon the scriptures in the Word of God.

Standing at the Biblicist, right?

And they were moving me into a hater Category and them into an

affirming category.

Yeah, and so I addressed that I said guys This is a false dichotomy.

You cannot say one groups a hater and one groups an affirmer.

I'm standing on the Word of God and that's that's it.

It's simple.

And so nevertheless that was.

My.

Unfortunate experience there with the meeting.

And to say that.

To say that.

Open.

Open homosexuals transgendered people which there's no such thing as a transgender person, but that's the lingo

nowadays.

Can.

Serve and grow.

Okay.

You can't grow until you've been born right.

Spiritually speaking I mean you have to be you have to be born again before you can start growing.

So the the not -so -subtle insinuation is is that.

You know.

They believe that these these people can be Christians.

Unrepentant homosexual and transgender people can be Christians, I mean that that's clearly what's

being suggested.

Yes.

Yeah that that is clear.

And so the problem Continues and you

know one thing that I was kind of faced with was I had some pushback with maybe

Danny used the wrong word, right?

Maybe he should not have maybe he didn't mean to say sir.

Well.

Obviously I addressed that in the beginning of our meeting and I said then you're a very articulate man and not only that or

Did you read an email and so you've typed it out and now you've read it is very very

clear as to the fact I chose that word intentionally.

So for my good friends around me around here who have given Danny the benefit of the doubt Maybe he just selected

the wrong word.

Well that that's simply not true.

In fact another meeting has transpired since that meeting with another member of the church who

also addressed that word serve and.

Danny.

Seemed to shrink back a little bit and say maybe I should not have used that word serve and then David youth

spoke up and said No, that's exactly the right word and God used that word.

And so people have to make a choice.

Here so David is clearly calling people to adhere to what he

is saying he and Danny are saying and and choose.

Wow and It just continues on.

And in fact in this same meeting There was an email sent

To pastor youth and Danny the armistice and and I'll share just a little bit of it.

Yeah, so so by the way This gentleman said I've got broad shoulders.

You can name my name.

You can give my address and email and phone number.

I'm with you.

I want things to be right and and I said well Just let me utilize the email and the information and

so I'll read to you some of it.

Okay, and some of this email to pastors youth and Danny D armistice on

Is a something that happened on a Sunday morning and he just briefly states hey, I'm

retiring now and I want to join a Bible study group and I worship around some folks there and

Was Invited to join a home group and they said that pastor

Danny recently Taught at the group and gave them the church's blessing and

approval to meet and grow.

All right, and I'll read it from here.

It says after they Had me go on their Bible study Facebook page and register.

It became very clear that they have had a study that caters to the LGBTQ community.

This Bible study is being led by pastor Mark Penn.

Who is the minister to the community for the joy?

Metropolitan Church here in Orlando in the two and the two administrators of this group are

active homosexual men one getting married this past December to his male partner after 26

years and Being together and the other man who lost his partner husband

just recently will have had Celebration of life service in next month or so.

One of the members of this Bible study group who lost his partner husband a year or so ago.

Let us know That he met another man and is going on a cruise shortly and they will be

sharing a cabin.

They are very happy to be part of a church that allows them to serve and be baptized.

Without their needing to change their LGBTQ Lifestyle.

They are very happy to be part of a church that allows them to serve and be baptized

without their needing to change their LGBTQ lifestyle.

After an hour of talking.

Another man who was serving in one area of the church Came and set across for

me and after a few minutes of conversation leaned in towards me.

Looking straight into my eye and making sure that I knew he was saying.

He told me that he was gay and the way that he looked at me.

It was chilling.

The group kept saying that great things are happening here at First Baptist Orlando on that car

ride.

It felt like we had been gut -punched from our own church.

In this note I included a picture of my wife and in our two granddaughters who when they are in

town.

We bring them to the children's area of the church.

I'm very concerned that these two innocent girls may have been exposed to people who serve in

your church.

Who the Bible states have been given over to depraved minds?

And that are consumed with unnatural lusts and passions.

These shameless acts and passions are usually not limited in age and gender.

Children fall victims to these people and the email goes on and his concerns are

specific and valid.

And that's the reason why I thought I would read this particular email.

And I think that this gentleman has a phenomenal ability to discern

and God is using his situation to bring light to what is going on there along with you know.

Perhaps this video and it's our desire to see repentance and restoration.

To see things righted, you know and and not continue to go down this road.

But it is very clear Justin that at First Baptist Orlando There are

unregenerate unrepentant.

People who are being affirmed and put into service.

Who are now members of the church and have been baptized.

And so I asked Danny at this meeting How do you substantiate this and this

this is an atrocity and he said that we're still figuring that out and

we have Burned it.

We have two two different categories.

And this is this is ludicrous.

I just share with you what he told me.

Okay, it said Those who affirm our church doctrine our stances.

They're living the faith they confessed Christ they're in alignment with our doctrine.

We'll baptize them but those also who defer to our church doctrine so he's created

two categories affirmers and defers if they just simply defer to our doctrine and

Hold primarily to what we're saying and they're not adhering to any anything else.

Then they're a candidate for baptism as well and so for an unrepentant.

You know in the individual to just simply say yeah, Jesus is Lord.

They can be baptized there and believe me.

They make baptism the popular thing to do and they drum it up and they play

music that is Cutting -edge dance music that that is just the place to

be.

And so after each service that I was there I came and watched it for myself after we met I said, I've got to go

see these things for myself.

And so the Sunday I was there they had baptisms after each service and

They would just simply say hey if you didn't come ready to be baptized today.

We've got a t -shirt and a towel ready for you.

Go to the tent and sign up and be baptized today when you go outside.

There's kind of like a DJ type atmosphere with a microphone and music going on and people just waiting to be

baptized getting in line and so the open yeah open baptism there is

Easy believism to say the least even down to children and I saw a wonderful little

innocent girl Couldn't have been more than five or six years old.

Who had been you know conditioned and trained and told what to do and and she jumped in and she said Jesus is my

Lord and and threw her head back to be baptized and Man, she was just

a beautiful girl.

I have three little girls and if there's one thing that we need to do as parents is be very

discerning with our children as they are learning about sin and The need to be

saved in the test their comprehension and and so I was

sitting out there during the baptisms and She ran around and ended up right beside of me at one of

the tables and she was soaking wet.

And I said, hey you got baptized and she said yep now I said, can you tell me what sin is and I mean she

says what's done wrong against God?

So I hope that her Comprehension of Jesus's

death and burial and Resurrection and personal atonement for her sins

is there.

I pray that it truly is In her mind and in her heart but I must say

to you I have reservations because it seems that she was trained and coached to do so and

So nevertheless, it seems like a numbers game there with baptism.

Totally totally a numbers game.

I mean in any little kid.

Yeah, they they hear the lingo in church and they they know the thing to say.

They know how to answer the question just with the you know, the right phraseology or lingo because they've heard it.

It doesn't mean that they've internalized it you know if.

If you were to ask that that same little girl You know Sally Sue or whatever name was you can

you tell me how Jesus saved you.

Has Jesus saved you or how has he done that?

What is what is your how did that happen?

Do you you know that there would be no there would be no credible testimony there.

Children just adopt the worldview in which they're raised.

So it's I mean any little kid.

I mean you get I could you could Give me ten minutes with a any six seven -year

-old kid who has absolutely no church background whatsoever.

And I can get them to say the sinner's prayer.

It doesn't it doesn't mean they're saved.

So.

And especially when it's a party atmosphere and you're right outside of Disney World and you know The sun

shining and the palm trees and the DJ's I mean DJ's for crying out loud.

That's that's a circus.

That's not there's.

That's a joke.

That's not.

That's not a real church.

Yeah, you know hundreds and hundreds are baptized there each year at First Orlando.

And even with the one whom I was talking with this morning through personal testimony would

say that first Baptist's own Research shows

that only 1 stick From those who are baptized and

The concern is if they have truly been saved and baptized then why are

they not?

Longing to be discipled in the church.

Why are they not here?

Where have they gone?

And so obviously There is something wrong and that's what we're

expressing.

It's huge and the lack of discernment is Huge as well

and that's what we're talking about today the fact that this is an atrocity and

unfortunately, First Baptist Orlando is kind of a

Template for what is happening in other churches in the Southern Baptist Convention in the same direction that the

convention is going and it is awful to see that we have had a

President who was a known plagiarizer be defended and none of our

Southern Baptist theological seminary presidents have called for his resignation when in fact They would

have thrown me out of New Orleans Baptist theological seminary if I would have plagiarized or if I would have

said Homosexuality is not a sin the presidents of that seminary would have

thrown me out of my head.

Yeah.

Orientation will scare you to death from doing even a word of plagiarization

and yet.

They're defending him.

Most of the presidents have defended Ed Litton.

They had him preach at their chapel services.

It's crazy.

And it's a double standard.

Oh, it's it's it's horrific.

It's unbelievable.

You're so right.

I mean, I I kind of got in a little bit of trouble in seminary because I plagiarized myself.

I took I had a paper to write and it was kind of subject matter was somewhat congruent with another paper I'd written.

I took a couple of paragraphs from my own paper and put it in this other paper.

I got in trouble for that.

I mean, it's it's stunning to me.

Yeah, yeah.

Another thing that I saw there when I went to First Baptist Orlando for those three

services that I was floored about Was the fact that a a male ballerina?

dancer performed on Sunday morning and Justin

his moves were erotic if It would have been a female.

She would not have any business moving like that on stage and

for it to be presented as a Worship worshipful arts a

scriptural song by David Publis One of the pastors there and then embraced by

David youth at the end and justified.

Yeah is an atrocity.

That is not worship.

You cannot take the old life from which someone should have repented of

and left and is running from and Display that as

worship and sing to it on Sunday morning.

But herein lies also a huge issue.

That wasn't the first time that this male homosexual ballerina had performed

now since he has according to David repented and Broke off his homosexual

relationships and drugs and alcohol and now has married a woman.

So praise God for that but nevertheless with David you cannot

have this is Worship worshipful arts.

That is this erotic movement.

It's it's it's an atrocity.

But yet at the same time how in the world do so many there at First Orlando see this

as okay.

This is not drawing attention unto God.

This is drawing attention to man this is normalizing gross immorality and

I'm floored at how Effective conditioning is over the years

to the point where many of my might be my friends would defend this kind of

ministry means in method.

Yeah, indeed.

Indeed.

Yeah, that's not worship.

That's that's entertainment.

Yeah, you're.

You know, first Corinthians 6 9 through 11 Paul says do not be

deceived neither fornicators nor adulterers nor feminine nor homosexuals or nor revilers or coders nor swindlers will

inherit the kingdom of God and.

And.

But then Paul says but in such were some of you you were those things.

But you're not anymore and that's very strong language in the Greek.

It's a it's a break.

It's a complete break with those sins.

It is there.

There's no such thing as a gay Christian.

All right, if you're a Christian your identity is not in your sin your identities in Christ and

It's a it's a complete break.

There doesn't mean that you're never you you won't ever again have a Attempting

thought or something, but it when you do you go to war with that stuff.

You go to war with it.

You battle it you put to death the deeds of the body Romans 8 13.

You take every thought captive you break with that.

Not not put it on display and not use it as some kind of a Foe act of worship, which it

is.

Yeah, exactly.

Lead anyone to Christ.

We must embrace who we are in Christ and abandon all of his old ways.

And we are now aliens and strangers in this world and people are brought from darkness into light

Through the strangeness of who we are in Christ.

That is a sentence of them.

It's the Word of God.

It's Christ himself.

We don't have to be friends with the world.

James 4 4 says to be friends with the world is enmity to God.

So we don't have to embrace the world's ways in order to win them.

We maintain who we are and They see that and they truly come to Christ and and then

we'll be truly saved and won't become false converts.

You know one of the things that I mentioned to David and Danny and the meeting was this, you know Acts chapter 8 is

a perfect example as to how we should be as pastors.

Peter saw the magician Simon make a false profession and even get

baptized because the crowd was doing that and then when Peter

recognized that he was in it for the wrong reasons, he called him to repentance and

And revealed his sin and that is exactly what we I mean.

We will be held accountable as pastors unto God for how we handled his word and his

church people and to affirm people in their sin is to it is

to His damning.

Yeah, and it has to be called out.

We cannot be silent in this.

That that's the that's the ironic thing here Casey is that is that David youth and Danny

Dearmus and the leadership at First Baptist Orlando and quite frankly many other Southern Baptist churches, too would say.

You and I are being mean we're being unloving with.

You know, the loving thing is to accept people but not Not if you believe what

Scripture says you and I Happen to believe what the Bible says.

In 1st Corinthians 6 and Romans 1 we happen to believe that.

People who are in that sin, you know.

You know, that is their identity.

They will not inherit the kingdom kingdom of God.

And so how much do you have to.

There's only two options here.

You if you if you truly Believe that if you really believe the Word of God,

then the most loving thing to do.

The only thing to do that is loving is to tell them the truth and tell them there's great danger.

Yeah, give them the gospel and implore them to repent.

So they can have freedom in Christ and the wrath of God will be removed.

From right that is if if we really believe what the Bible says it if they die in that state.

They will spend all of eternity in hell and during the full undiluted fury of God's wrath.

So how much do you have to hate someone to me to believe that but

not tell them?

You know, that is the purest form of hatred or.

Or you just say you believe the Bible is the Word of God, but you don't really believe it.

As evidenced by the by how you do church as evidenced by how you preach as evidenced by how you.

You affirm people in their sin and give them.

Misplaced love love that's really not love.

All right, and you know speaking of telling them the truth.

Man, I was talking to some mutual friends of ours.

Anthony.

Let's see Sylvester.

Oh and Andrew Rappaport.

And Andrew, of course.

Converted from Judaism to over to Christianity and and I asked him the question.

How do you lead a Jew to Jesus?

Yeah.

Now you really have to know the Old Testament and everything.

And his answer was the answer obviously that I was looking for.

It's whether it's a Muslim with child whether it's anybody else a homosexual anybody who is in sin.

It's the power of the gospel and the salvation and so you love people.

Indiscriminately you share the gospel indiscriminately.

It doesn't it doesn't matter about your eloquence.

It doesn't matter about your words your Personality, it doesn't matter how you're dressed how many teeth you have.

It just matters about the gospel.

That's right.

You know, I mean the power of the gospel and salvation, you know, so Romans 116 is true.

Absolutely, absolutely and I agree a hundred percent I I've shared the gospel with

homosexuals before and not that I asked him.

I mean you can quite honestly Tell you know, most of them most of them you can tell and I've shared the gospel with

people with homosexuals.

I didn't drill down on their homosexuality.

I share the gospel with a homosexual the same way I share the gospel with someone who you know is a

logger out in the woods of North Idaho or whatever.

I mean you share the gospel the same way with everybody.

The only time you ever need to bring up homosexuality is if that person

professes to be a Christian and is a homosexual and then you say No,

that's not what scripture teaches.

But you know you share the gospel with a homosexual shit in the same way you share the gospel with anyone.

Mm -hmm, exactly.

And when I was in that meeting with all of the pastors there I I simply asked them about

these things and mentioned to give hearty approval to homosexuality a Corman according

to Romans 132 is to be guilty of it yourself.

Yeah.

Yeah, they are in grave danger and They're not walking a fine

line.

They've crossed the line and that's what many people need to actually hear is That

no, they're they're not they're not Embracing them and loving them.

They're actually hating them if they're very clear about the fact that no.

You cannot serve and be baptized and be a member of First Baptist, Orlando as

an unregenerate Unrepentant person and David youth, you know kind of pushed back a little bit and he

normalized it and said well sin is sin.

And that's not the case.

We're talking about nature here.

Right, if the nature has not been changed if they're not a new creation, then they are not

saved.

And then he said well, we just believe that Sanctification starts after

baptism and then he said we're still trying to figure out This whole process here with

what it is it to be a member and I thought in my mind How is it you're the pastor of First Baptist,

Orlando for this long and you still don't have membership nailed down.

You don't have it figured out.

He's just simply capitulating and in my opinion he's keeping it ambiguous and

blurry as so to do what he wants to do to make this

ambiguous area and work in this direction and.

Continue down his path.

That is a stunning thing.

To hear a pastor say we're still trying to figure this out.

We're still trying to figure out what church membership is figure out how to do.

You're trying to figure it out.

I mean, you know what's amazing to me in in every area of life.

We search out the best, right?

I mean we want we want the best dentist to fill our cavities.

We want the best Builder to build our homes.

We want we want a good mechanic to fix our cars for crying out loud.

So we seek out the best.

But when it comes to The one thing in our lives, which is by far the most important

the the shepherding Of our eternal souls in worship to the creator of the

universe.

The one who who handles the word of god who feeds our souls.

Oh.

Anything will do.

Oh, he's a nice guy.

I like his stories.

It's astonishing to me.

I mean you wouldn't.

You wouldn't go you wouldn't walk into a hospital in need of open heart surgery and you know, if you heard the the

the surgeon's about to cut you open he said.

Well, you know, I'm.

I'm.

I've read i've read a couple articles on how to do this, you know.

I'm kind of still trying to figure it out, you know, like whoa.

Whoa.

Whoa, you're you're not gonna about you're not gonna cut me open but when it comes to matters of

Eternity.

Hey, it's okay.

We're still trying to figure it out.

No biggie.

Right.

It's astonishing.

Absolutely astonishing so casey we have to kind of begin to Land the

plane.

I want to give you time to say anything else you want to say we have in fact I've seen comments on

our.

On the video that I did earlier on first baptist orlando.

I saw a comment.

I'll put it up on edit it up here.

Okay, i'm going to interrupt myself here and just read this comment to you.

This was a A lady who posted uh on my first video on first baptist orlando.

And I'm going to blur out her name for privacy just even though her name is listed.

And she publicly put it up there.

I'm just going to kind of err on caution here.

And uh, she said i'm a member here.

I'm very close friends with the leadership I serve in the choir and on the welcome team with danny's wife.

Danny dearmus the senior associate pastor.

There are many homosexuals serving.

I love these people so much.

I've been struggling and grieving the holy spirit because I cannot be comfortable here.

The holy spirit has been telling me to get out now for a while.

Thank you so much.

Justin.

This was for me.

I needed to hear you say get out.

These people are my friends, but I cannot do it.

I choose my lord jesus over everything.

Thank you for this video.

God bless you and that dear ones.

That is the response of a christian.

That is someone.

A sister in the lord who's indwelt by the holy spirit of god.

And even though she loves the people there.

She realizes that worship is the highest priority.

And there is there is no worship going on there.

They are not worshiping god in spirit and in truth.

And she realizes this because she's indwelt by the holy spirit and she knows it.

He bears witness, uh to her spirit of the truth and she realizes She's got to get out and

and she's right and I guess you can you can read there.

Um, what I how I replied to her uh from a lady Who is a member of first

baptist church orlando and she sees this she knows there's homosexuals Who are serving

who are being baptized in the church and you also you we we've got first person.

Eyewitness account testimony from people inside the church saying that yes, they are doing this.

Yes, that's absolutely true and.

Again.

If um, if you if you meet danny or david in a restaurant somewhere and you talk to them.

You're going to get the tip of the iceberg.

You're going to get a snowed over you know.

Excuses them and men you're going to they're very very winsome.

And so again, the appeal is not to just listen to what is being said.

But to discern by what they're doing, you'll know a man by their fruit and so examine the scriptures.

Don't be enamored by the smoothness of the speech.

Don't be enamored by you know, the fun because first baptist orlando is just wrapped in

celebratory fun.

You go there it's the place to be.

They've relandscaped and done an amazing job with their facilities.

And so you can go there and get some fried chicken or starbucks.

You can get baptized.

You play in the playground play on the astroturf grass and Listen to some awesome music.

You can slide down some slides in the children's department.

It is very cool, you know, but here's the thing that never saved anybody

and It's it's an attractional Methodology that keeps you

giving the excuses as you go.

And for myself.

This is uh, not fun.

Nobody wakes up thinking yes, I get to do this today.

But according to the scriptures acts 2020 paul said.

That I did not shrink back from telling you anything that was profitable.

And and that's my whole aim.

I want to be here for people.

I want to love them and tell them the truth.

And i'll always always tell the truth.

I want to be in alignment with the reformers that have gone before us through the protestant Reformation who have

held true.

I want to be in alignment with the puritans.

I want to be in alignment with those who who are stalwart and steadfast in the faith.

And who are not given to the ways of the world?

And I praise god through Um the years that i've been here at bula baptist church in winter garden that

our people have a value.

To continue in the word of god and so prove that we are disciples of christ according to john 8 31.

We value truth.

And we want to know what the bible has to say.

And and how it opposes what is the cultural norm?

We want to know how to defend ourselves against the ways of the world.

We want to keep our children safe.

We worship together as families.

We're we're going down a very biblical path intentionally.

And i'm so proud of our church members for standing strong because the popular thing to do is to

go with the direction of the southern baptist convention.

And rick warren who is ordaining women as pastors.

And All the you know, danny aiken who has hired an outright liberal professor who

has endorsed the revoice Conference that equips christian gates.

And that's an oxymoron.

And the list goes on and on and on.

You know, so.

Who knows how much longer our particular church will be southern baptist if?

The conservative baptist network is not able to pull together and vote all this garbage

out for which we're members of.

Then we won't be here much longer.

We cannot hook our wagon to this.

They're using our missions giving funds To forward this worldly

narrative.

Yeah, and so critical race theory was voted in in 2019.

Nothing was done about it.

And since and now there's a huge cry for unity unity unity and

I really do pray that even bode balkan's participation in the

Denomination here through the conservative baptist network would make a difference, but I am

ashamed at the baptist press for Publicizing

an article that defames votee's character without bright lies.

I cannot Believe that we're living in a day where this kind of stuff is allowed

and so Dr. John mccarthur is going to speak to the conservative baptist network

members at the next convention in anaheim.

Our delegates have tickets we're going with a full roster to the california.

Our church voted to pay as many as we can go are going.

As much as allowed and and so we're going to go and do our absolute best to try and right all these

wrongs.

And if we don't see or perceive that there's any traction here.

Then we'll come back and give a report to our church.

We'll wait to the following year to see if there's any traction there in 2023 in the south.

But brother i'll be honest with you.

This don't look good.

This looks like the titanic.

And.

I am Surprised at how many are unwilling to

address critical race theory.

I'm, even surprised in our own state.

Dr. Tommy green our executive treasurer told me personally We don't have a problem in florida

with social justice and wokeness.

And my reply to that is listen if you ignore cancer It's going to be a silent killer.

And that was two years ago when I talked to him about that one of his employees

Jeff singletary a personal friend of mine a dear friend of our church.

He has spoke here at our church.

Just was preaching at willie rice's church and was peddling all of this wokeness

and actually accused us Of preaching a fragmented gospel.

Jesus said.

The.

Unifying.

The identifying mark of the child of god is that we love one

another.

How did we miss this verse?

Yes.

We are.

We are dealing.

With.

The turmoil Division and divisiveness of a broken culture.

There is tension friction Misunderstanding misunderstanding

anger hatred that exists along racial lines one of the

reason for this.

Is that too many?

In the american church Who claim to be followers of jesus christ

have preached and taught a fragmented gospel.

They preached and taught a cultural gospel rather than the authentic gospel

of the lord jesus christ.

They perpetuated a colonial narrative of white supremacy the court the colonial

gospel served to justify the further enslavement of africans.

And further enslaved their mind their body.

Soul.

And spirit.

And brother i'm brokenhearted.

Over all of this and like you in times past have attached all of these issues like a train.

Yeah.

Wokeness is all connected underneath the surface.

Yeah, and to be part of one element is to be a part of it all.

And so it all has to be addressed in the to peddle any of this language

Is to cater to this worldly movement and it is Outright Heresy,

it is adding to the gospel galatians one nails it.

You cannot add anything to the gospel unless you nullify christ's atonement on the cross.

And that's my plea to the pastors.

Have a basic element of discernment about you stand upon the word of god No matter

what and be honorable in these areas.

Yeah, indeed brother indeed I know it's it's just um, it's it's shocking to see the

state of affairs in the sbc and uh at this point I could never Recommend

any young man who wants to go into the ministry to be trained to get his education at a southern baptist seminary.

And I graduated from a southern baptist seminary.

I couldn't do it at this point because they're.

You know, they're inviting ed linton in to speak at their chapels.

Who's unknown?

Plagiarist and Then when confronted about it lied about his plagiarism.

It and he's being celebrated he's being put behind the pulpit.

It's just on and on and on, um.

Well, well brother, thank you.

Thank you for your courage.

Thank you for your faithfulness to stand up for the truth.

Um appreciate you very much casey and and again, you are the pastor at

Uh winter, uh beulah baptist church in winter garden outside of orlando.

And so i'm going to put the link to your church down below there in the description so folks can find you

and um I um, let me let me say this as as we close and I know casey you would agree with this

if if you're watching this video and maybe you're a member of first baptist orlando or

you're.

Um, you're at another church and you're seeing these same things in your church and you're you realize you're in a bad church

I'll look up here at the camera so I can address folks.

Um, if you're if you're seeing these things, um, and you're wondering should I stay in my church should I

leave?

Maybe I can stay and fix things.

You're not going to fix them.

You're a Congregation is not going to rise to a level of spiritual

maturity above that of its leadership.

It's just not going to happen.

You're not going to change the church.

You need to be in a real church.

Biblically defined church with biblically qualified elders.

Who are men?

A church who a church that exposits the word Committed to expository preaching a

church that does church discipline per matthew chapter 18 15 through 20 uh, look for a

church that has these marks and uh,.

And and find it and join yourself to it.

You're not going to change The weak or the bad church that you're in you need to be in a real church because it's only in a real church.

That you can truly worship in spirit and in truth, so

Casey brother, thank you so much.

Any any anything else you'd like to say before we Land the plane here.

No, that's it.

Justin.

Thank you for your time.

Thank you for inviting me on your show, and I appreciate your friendship.

Yeah, I appreciate yours as well.

Case.

I sure do.

Thank you very much brother.

Thank you, sir.

So tom brother, thank you very much.

Let me first say i'm i'm so appreciative of your friendship and uh appreciative of your Service and

you and I share the same concerns.

In fact, you and I were on the same.

Uh, we were on the the um meeting that Ended up producing the statement on

social justice and the gospel and you've been very active In the sbc as much as you can be to

engage these issues.

You along with tom askew and vody balkum I'd say are kind of the some of the point men in the sbc that have been

pushing back against the crt and as you have pointed out tom

The social justice movement is a train.

And once that engine comes in you've got all these these cars that are coming along with it.

One of which is the homosexual car something that a handful of years ago None of

us would have ever expected the sbc to capitulate on and yet we are seeing that Right in front of our

eyes.

I just spoke with casey butner The pastor of abuela baptist church in winter garden florida

outside of orlando.

So we were talking about that and so I wanted to bring you in On this as well.

Uh, tom.

Thank you first.

Thank you very much for coming.

And um.

Tell us just a little bit about yourself.

Where are you pastor and um.

Your concerns with this as well and what you are seeing and what you want to engage today.

Well, just first of all, I just want to say how much I appreciate you.

I mean, I think that needs to be said.

I know that so many people do.

But you've just been a faithful servant of god to be willing to address issues tough issues.

Take them on straight forward.

Um, i've watched your ministry and been blessed from afar.

Uh long before we've been able to become friends.

And so i've respected you for a long time.

And thankful for you.

Thank you.

I'm down in east texas.

We're near tyler town called lindale and we're about an hour and 15 minutes east of dallas.

I've been here at first baptist church for 16 years.

This past sunday was my 16 year anniversary.

Oh, wow, and so thankful for the years i've been able to be here.

And I have been uh southern baptist, uh my entire life.

Um, I was a member or not a member.

But I was a part of southern church forever.

Got saved obviously because I I was in an sbc nursery one week after I was born.

And i've been in my entire life.

So.

I have a vested interest in these type of of things.

Uh discussions that we're having and you're right.

The social justice train has been plowing through the southern baptist convention.

I think it's been plowing through Unknowingly so for a while before it even showed up our

churches.

It's been plowing through our institutions for some time and I said a few years ago when uh, josh

vice at g3 had a Had a panel, of course josh vice has been a leading voice.

He's the organizer of the statement that we signed uh meeting for that and then

uh, you know just left the sbc but I said at that conference on a panel that This social

justice train is coming and it will be pulling up to your church very soon.

That was in 2019.

Little did I know That the entire all three cart box cars

Of this social justice engine.

It is now in the sbc full force we've seen it with you know, the soft

kind of issues like same -sex attraction and Living out and sam alberry who worked very

closely with the erlc.

And there's been you know, they've been pushing these edges for a while.

And now with this situation first baptist orlando, I think we see it starting to come into full bloom.

Yes.

Indeed.

Yeah, we have uh for sure and uh in shocking things we we've seen in recent weeks

tom last couple months as of this recording that the pastor and senior

Associate pastor david youth and danny diarmus respectively have both said that

uh their church has Open homosexual people transgender people to use

their terms serving and growing uh in the church and uh, just interviewed casey

butler.

Oh and uh, Uh, david youth said that he was reading an article from erwin mcmanus saying that every

healthy church must have Heretics and sexually immoral people in it.

You've got to have those folks in your church in order to be healthy.

Which is an astonishing thing to say.

Um.

Yeah, so and these were not these were not um slips of the tongue or being inarticulate.

I mean he was reading an article.

He's making that point very forcibly and uh, casey butler just told us about how there are.

He got any um a letter or an email from someone who was a member there and absolutely affirms.

They are.

They are baptizing and accepting as members open homosexuals.

Um, so.

That spurred you correct tom to write the north american mission board nam.

About your concerns and their partnership with first baptist orlando.

Talk to us a little bit about that and your interaction with him.

Yeah, I think that you know this let's just clarify a couple of things I think one is I think that you and I would agree and correct me if i'm wrong on this.

That we want our churches to be a place where an unbeliever can come in, right?

And still we would put this in quotations welcome in the sense that we would show love to them.

Uh, we would want the you know As we see in first corinthians that they would come in and see how god's people worship god

and they follow their needs and believe Upon the ever, you know the living god.

Yes.

We you know, of course, we don't want to put on our door No lgbt people welcome.

That would just be that's not what we're talking about right what we're talking about, uh in in serving

uh is not even if you know, if if we were Setting up tables and

in the in the room and one of these, uh individuals of whatever Issue of sin that they're

dealing with whether it's lgbt or maybe they're you know An adulterer or something of that nature who's coming to the church

and they began to help us.

You know put the tables away we're not going to push them to the ground and say you can't serve here.

That's not what we're talking about.

Let's just what we're talking about and what we know they're talking about.

Is giving them a sense of normality in the church.

That's why they use the term belong before you believe right?

And they say and which First time I ever heard that was with andy stanley.

And uh, we want them to feel like that.

They're a part of the community.

And then that will lead them eventually being able to believe now there's all kinds of problems with that.

Obviously their doctrine or their soteriology is driving towards that.

It's a man -centered doctrine.

That's right.

And and because they don't believe that you can stand and preach Strongly against homosexuality.

You've got to give quality.

You've got to have a death by a death by a thousand qualifications.

Of how you know that well, I have friends who are homosexuals and I understand homosexuality is not any different than any

other sin.

Uh, but we don't talk about any other sin that way, right?

Uh, we don't say I have lots of friends that are adulterers and we've got a few adulterers on the front row today and

and uh, and we want them to feel like they belong it's it's.

It's ludicrous.

And absurd, but we've got to define these things correctly so that people think that uh, not not think

what or think.

We're saying something.

We're not.

Yeah so yeah, yeah, in fact just very recently we had a.

Uh, this is absolutely true.

We had a transgender individual come into our church.

It was a man who was dressed like a woman.

Uh, he came in and sat near the back on on my right as I was looking I actually thought it was a woman.

And then I found out after the service that it was actually a man.

And our church people knew when they as soon as soon as you was around you were around him.

You could tell it was a man.

They were kind to him.

The ushers gave him a seat the people that sat around him were kind to him.

So.

And and that's the way it should be.

But we're not going to coddle or give them a sense of belonging because they don't belong.

So I wrote nam because david youth in that video made the statement.

That they were going to be partner in the same video where he announced all this stuff.

That they were going to be partnering with nam to plant churches.

I think it was on the campus of ucf.

Which would be university of central florida and orlando, right?

And uh.

And and just talking about that partnership that he was going to have well, you know as well as I do if you're a

a if you're Affirming or even soft in your position on lgbt.

It's going to most certainly show up on a college campus.

You're not going to be harder about that position at a college campus than you are in your local church.

That's for sure.

So I I can't help what fbc orlando does in one sense I I believe they should be

disfellowshipped from the southern maps convention because they're a biblical position which is in my understanding a violation.

Of.

The baptist faith and message.

We have a very strong statement about homosexuality.

And I doubt these same people would say I have lots of friends.

They're racist.

We have some racists on the front row today and and uh racism's not different than any other sin.

And we want them to feel like they belong before they believe.

That would never be said.

And the southern maps convention would come down on them.

Uh very quick and very fast and use the baptist faith and message statement on on race regarding that.

So I wrote nam.

And i'll share with you what I asked.

Okay.

Please do so i've learned to be very specific.

Because you don't you have to uh hone in on the question.

So does nam ascribe to the ministry philosophy that you can belong before you

believe?

Okay.

Okay, uh in other words that you can serve in roles at the church, even if they're heretics or

living in sexually immoral sin.

Okay, straight question, right question.

Yep question number two.

Uh now that fbc orlando has made it clear that they're partnering with nam to plant churches That fit with

their belong before you believe philosophy.

Uh, there seems to be only three answers that could be given.

A.

Nam knew this was fbc orlando's philosophy and is fine with partnering with them.

B nam did not know this was fbc orlando's philosophy, but we will continue to partner with them.

Or.

C nam did not know that this was fbc's philosophy and we're going to withdraw from any partnership to plant

such churches.

That's pretty straightforward, right?

That's pretty straightforward.

Yes, it is.

So the answer I got.

Was um.

Nam has a strong and thorough process for vetting church planters.

They meet it, uh, if and they must meet our standards and guidelines before their everest endorsed or funded.

Of course, they all have to agree to the baptist faith and message.

Um.

Bfm 2000 brings much unity and clarity says something about that.

And then it says while I would decline the invitation to weigh in on how local churches conduct their individual ministries If you

have not done so already I encourage you to personally contact david youth at first orlando and

address your concerns with him.

Well.

Not one question I asked was answered.

Right, and what's that got to do with it?

So I replied back Uh, and by the way, I sent him the sent kevin ezel the video clips

That I was referring to so he could review them correct.

They were in the email.

Yeah, I responded back and said the point of my email was not for you to undermine the autonomy of

fbc orlando.

My concern in coming to you Is that david youth says that they're partnering with nam

to plant these kind of churches.

So i'm asking if a nam church plant would be allowed to practice such a thing.

And I gave an illustration of the racism illustration, you know that nobody would allow that right.

So.

The response I got back.

Um I did not get a response back from him.

I got a response back from one of his Persons that he gave it to and he said

kevin's traveling and in meetings and asked that I would reply.

He said I think his first response addresses all your concerns.

Uh, we track closely bfm 2000 yada yada yada, but it seems best in your situation to reach

out to first baptist orlando.

Why.

First pastor orlando doesn't run nam.

David youth's not the president of nam.

I'm asking a simple question.

Yeah.

We all nam churches.

It should have been.

No, we don't practice for long before you believe we wouldn't do that.

No, we would not allow lgbt people to serve, right?

So i'm kind of a bulldog as you know on these type of things.

So I wrote back again and I said you must have not read my questions.

And uh, I asked the question specifically again.

I said, um.

So I wanted to be as clear as possible and said is nam planting churches with.

With them on the ucf campus.

He writes back.

And says to me again Uh, we follow the bfm 2000 yada yada yada does

not answer the question.

Um, I write back again and say.

Um.

David youth said that nam is partnering with fbc orlando to plant a church on the campus.

Of uh, you ucf.

Is this true?

And that was um the 16th of march.

And on march 18th, which was friday.

I received this response.

Thank you for your latest email.

I look forward to getting back to you next week sometime.

I mean.

It's a yes or no question, right?

Right, and it's not a gotcha question.

No, like do you still beat your wife, right?

Right, no.

You can't you can't i'm setting you up.

Yeah.

Are you planting churches with with first baptist orlando on use orlando on ucf campus or are you

not?

Right.

Right.

That's not a hard question.

That's not.

It's as you said, it's yes or no.

They they wasted much more time dancing around that.

And much more time and effort dancing around that and obfuscating than it would have taken just to answer the questions.

Yeah, you see this.

Yep, these are all the emails.

Wow.

To get a question.

To get that question answered and I still don't have an answer to it.

So.

You know, I don't know what to say.

We're in deep trouble because this is this is where money for my church is going.

Yeah.

Fbc orlando can plant whatever kind of churches they want to.

But when nam takes the money from churches like mine and others They owe us an answer

Yeah, and they don't need to wait and find out.

If the church planter is going to it's coming out of that stream.

I guarantee you nam would not partner to plant churches with a church that talked

about.

Welcoming open races.

Yeah, that's right.

That's right, nor should they.

Yeah, exactly.

Or should they.

I mean they they accuse us as as Conservatives, I guess they could.

They could.

They accuse us of harping on one issue, you know one, you know with you.

It's always about abortion or gay marriage but I guarantee you tom and you're so right.

And what you said if If we were dealing with open racists, I mean, I guarantee you if someone

walked in the first baptist church orlando wearing a white hood.

Uh.

They wouldn't be except they wouldn't be baptized there.

They wouldn't be growing and serving there.

That's exactly right.

They'd be running run out on the rail.

And rightly so rightly so exactly and rightly so they would be called to

repentance.

Yeah, uh is.

What we're dealing with at this point is not just a lack of discernment.

This is more than that.

This is spiritual malpractice in the pulpit.

It's it's spiritual malpractice among the pastors of that church.

Uh, david youth has no more of a business being a pastor of a local church.

Amen, uh, then.

Uh, you know, whatever you might compare that to if somebody that has no business whatsoever.

That's just the point.

He has no business doing that.

Any more business than I would have coaching someone how to run a triathlon.

Well point taken but I couldn't say that uh, or me running a you know, weight loss camp,

but anyway that on the side.

We have got to start addressing these things with extreme boldness.

It's time to quit playing around because souls are at stake including yes.

Including the lgbt people who need the gospel of jesus christ who need to hear

that.

That god calls them to repentance.

And when you baptize them, in fact, one of the things that was said Is and I don't know if if

your other interview covered this or not.

But they said they would baptize someone as long as they'll call.

Say that as long as the bad person being baptized will say jesus is lord.

Yeah, and they either confirm or they um

defer yeah defer to their doctoral statement.

Where's where's anybody ever heard of anything like that?

And here's what they mean by that.

It's quite clear.

They can either Fully embrace their doctoral statement or they can say, you know, i'm not ready

yet to give up my lifestyle of homosexuality.

I'll be going home tonight.

To live a life of debauchery.

Yeah.

But I i'll defer to your statement that says something different than I believe.

But I but I believe enough to be able to say jesus is lord.

They don't understand what lord means.

Nope.

So this is this is easy believism on steroids.

Yep.

Yep, this is this is the kind of stuff that would have would have made rick warren blush with shame.

You know 20 years ago, maybe it wouldn't now probably wouldn't now but it would have 20 years ago, but you're right.

This is easy believism on steroids and it's not enough to just say Jesus is lord.

Kenneth copeland says that that's his Byline, I mean and a mormon could say that

so it's it's meaningless unless you Actually internalize what that

means and it has an impact upon your life.

Well, what does first corinthians tell us that no one can say jesus is lord apart from the work of the spirit in their life.

So if they don't really have the holy spirit, they can't.

Whatever they're saying is not truly jesus is lord, right?

Which is what paul's addressing there.

A real affirming of that, but what we're seeing right now in the sbc is the metastasizing of the

cancer pragmatism.

That's what we're seeing.

This is this is from the same stream.

As firetruck baptistries that ronnie floyd had floyd had this is from the same stream of all of

that.

Yeah, it just is worse if you will because now we're dealing with an easy believism.

And a type of pragmatism that is now allowing some of the grossest rebellion to be brought into the

church.

And to be sanctified and washed if you will by the waters of the baptistry.

Yeah, uh, this is a this is no small thing and if we don't identify the the the

stream from which this flows the the.

Where all of this is coming from?

We're never going to be able to fix the sbc this cancer cannot just be cut off by

Nipping the tip of this of the lgbt issues.

Yeah, we're only going to fix the sbc if we go to the root of it and dig it out at its root.

Do the radiation whatever needs to be done to get it out?

And that's not going to happen as long as we continue to have pragmatists.

Uh.

Running the sbc and that's why I have a very little hope that we're going to be able to turn this around.

Yeah.

Yeah, so many of these churches.

I mean if Fbc orlando and they're not the only ones doing this.

They're just kind of the ones we're talking about.

They're one of the larger uh, it's one of the larger churches in the sbc, but uh, if there were.

If there were truly any real doctrinal standards with some teeth behind it if you will

Fbc orlando would have been kicked out of the sbc.

For absolutely they would have been kicked out of the sbc for doing this 20 years ago.

Yep, but not now.

Now they're being celebrated now.

David youth.

He was the he was the president of the of the pastor's Conference in the sbc in to

was it 2019 or 2020.

2020?

Yes.

It was bringing in a woman pastor for that.

And that wasn't even the biggest story.

The biggest scandal was not a woman pastor that tells you something.

The biggest scandal was a church that he had that was sexually immoral in the way that they did.

Their quote unquote worship, which was down in florida.

So.

Um.

That you know, we knew that there were problems.

Yeah, but nobody nobody really wanted to deal with it because they won't deal with the mega church, right?

Yeah, exactly.

Exactly.

They won't deal with the mega church.

Yep.

Because the bigger church the more influence more power, you know, it wields.

Um, you don't know this yet because I just interviewed casey and I know you haven't seen it but um, Casey

butner was telling me that he was speaking personally with David youth and uh

about baptism and baptizing homosexuals and transgender people and and david

youth actually told him.

He said well, you know with baptism, we're still working these things out.

Like we're still trying to decide what we believe or how we're going to do this.

We're working it out like What do you mean you're working it out?

You're a pastor.

You don't understand baptism.

Well, that's why I said it's malpractice.

Yeah, he has no business being in the pulpit, right?

No, he doesn't.

I mean, I don't I don't say that lightly.

Uh.

Matthew 28 Jesus told us we don't have to work it out.

Where when we baptize them it's leading to teach them to observe all the things that christ commanded.

But one of the things that they claim from what I understand Is that sanctification begins really

after baptism?

So They have this very low bar For baptism in the end and I think what

they're reading is you baptize them and then you teach them to observe all things That i've commanded you.

I think that's how they read that which uh, they need another class in exegesis.

Because that in no way is what what is being said in that passage, right?

Let me say one other thing at least and that is how the culture is influencing the church on these things.

Um.

I I was also repulsed growing up When the church's added toward attitude towards

homosexuality mirrored the culture in the past.

Where they would make fun of homosexuals in the pulpit and they would demean them as

Just as people right where they would make comments like, you know, with their you it's true that god made adam and eve.

Not adam and steve.

That's actually a truth.

I don't have a problem with the truth of that.

But you can say it in such a way that it's clear that you're mocking and you're.

If someone was sitting out there in the audience listening that truly was, you know, uh.

Engulfed in that lifestyle that in no way is calling them to the kind of repentance jesus would call them to.

So i'm repulsed By the church following the cultural trends of mocking homosexuality

30 years ago.

And now i'm just as repulsed probably more so because it's now pushing them towards the sin.

By us mirroring the culture now to be affirming it was wrong.

Then it's wrong now and the same thing that was wrong in both situations is a misapplication

and mishandling of the word of god.

We need to stand true On what god's word says regarding every sin.

So let me ask you this because one of the things he says in the video Is that homosexuality is

like every other sin?

So, I don't know if you've seen the video where they have a baller a male ballerina dancing for worship.

Have you seen that?

Which is interesting now, apparently this this Young man is now married and I

hope you know.

Hopefully he has completely turned from that lifestyle and repented of it.

It seems like from the conversation that david you've had did but he makes this statement that well homosexuality

Is no different than any other type of sin.

How would you answer that.

Because I don't think I would say that in that way.

No, I wouldn't I wouldn't say it that way either.

I mean it is true.

I mean james tells us if you offend in one aspect of the law, you break one law, you've broken them all so in that sense,

but but homosexuality is.

Well, we know from scripture that sexual sin is different right.

Because it's committed inside the body not outside the body.

It has there's something fundamentally different with sexual sin uh, but homosexual sin,

especially uh is a Is is of a different nature than

heterosexual sin in that.

It's not inherently sinful to be heterosexual.

That's god's design.

Uh.

It's not inherently sinful for a young christian man to be attracted to a young christian woman.

I mean if that was not the case and nobody would ever get married but homosexual

desire and activity.

That is a uniquely post fall.

Sin sin that is that that did not come into play until after the

fall.

No, man would have been attracted to another man before the fall.

Although men would have been attracted to women.

Yes, men would not in an ungodly sexual sexual way exploiting way, but would have had an

attraction, right?

Yes.

Yeah, not in a perverted way, but that is god's natural design for men to be attracted to women.

It is not god's design never was god's design.

For a man to be attracted to another man or a woman to be attracted to another woman.

And when you so it's a uniquely post fall desire.

So it's disordered in a way that heterosexual Is not disordered.

It's not inherently sinful now.

They're absolutely there is Heterosexual sin to be sure but it's not inherently sinful to be

heterosexual.

But when you look at the language of first corinthians 6 when paul says Do not be deceived neither fornicators nor

idolaters nor effeminate nor homosexuals nor revilers nor covetous nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of god.

Uh.

But then he says in verse 11.

For such were some of verse 10 for such were some of you.

You were those things but you're not anymore.

You were a reviler, but you're not anymore.

You were covetous, but you're not anymore.

You were a homosexual.

But you're not anymore.

That's very strong language in in the greek.

It's it's a complete break from that identity and we tom you you and I we hear this

a lot and we hear it from we've heard it from revoice and and these other uh venues that

it's coming from coming out of but.

A gay christian as long as you don't act on it.

It's okay.

You can be a gay christian.

Just don't act on it well as.

As christians our identity is not in our sin.

Our identity is in christ.

There's no there's no more any such thing as a gay christian as there would be.

A child molesting christian, you never hear that, right?

I'm a child molesting christian or a racist christian.

Right if you just go through a racist christian or a racist christian, right?

You know, we you don't hear that i'm i'm a bank robbing christian.

You know, we don't we don't say that for any other sin, but we do for homosexuals so

um.

So it's it's a that's a canard to say that um homosexuality is just like any other sin

no, it's.

It's a if you're truly a christian you're going to be that identity will be broken.

Yeah, and you just touched on something it's it in verse 11.

It is verse 11 and such were some of you.

Now listen to the next four words, but you were washed.

Yes.

Now.

That's talking about spiritual washing, right?

Yes.

That's talking about when we're saved.

Yep that we're cleansed washed um that and and that happens when

that happens at The point of salvation.

That's right.

Okay.

Now we know that theologically we continue Uh to have our feet washed if we use the upper room

discourse, right?

Uh -huh that that there's still that need to go on a continual washing.

Yeah.

But.

If we take that what is baptism?

It's a spiritual pic or it's a physical picture of the spiritual reality.

Yep.

So why would you wash someone with the physical by baptistry washed waters?

If there's not evidence that they've been spiritually washed, that's right.

You see this is not rocket science.

No.

So there is not a.

I'm from tennessee i've always said if I can get this anybody should be able to get it.

It's not intelligence.

I have a southern accent.

The sbc knows I have no intelligence.

That's another story with nam on another day.

I do but clearly.

Um.

Just we should not baptize anybody that gives is not giving evidence.

That they were washed spiritually.

And someone who says i'm still a homosexual.

That's a violation of first corinthians six or a misunderstanding misapplication.

Whatever.

First corinthians six nine and ten, that's right.

Yep.

Yeah, the other thing I would say on that Is don't you find it interesting?

That two of the boxcars of social justice are egalitarianism the issue of women.

That's right and the lgbt issues.

Both of those defy the created order.

Yep, both of them.

Yes, they do.

Uh.

Paul says this in romans one for lgbt issues and he says it in first corinthians 2 12

regarding the issue of women teaching social justice.

Train crt is wicked is vile.

It's anti god.

It's not a useful tool.

It is of the enemy the devil.

This is not overstatement.

It absolutely can be illustrated from the fact that the very thing that satan does

Is what critical race theory does and what these svc churches that are you?

Employing it are doing they are joining satan in his Uh attempts to

undermine the bride of christ to destroy the bride of christ to infiltrate the bride of christ.

This is a serious issue I I don't speak lightly about these things Unless I

believe it's on this level and I believe it is and unless we root it out It will be a

cancer as paul warns about a little this is we're not even dealing with a little leaven at this point.

Uh -huh.

Yeah, the little leaven was the firetruck bad district.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

This is this is the metastasizing.

This is the leaven having worked through.

Yeah.

Yep.

Yep, that's right.

That's right and you're absolutely right.

Tom, you know from the firetruck baptistry to to where we are now that's um.

Yeah, in fact casey and I were talking about how they're at first.

Baptist orlando their their baptisms.

It's a it's a.

They've got this huge uh ornate, um outside area

with A pool and waterfalls and they've got a dj going.

They've got the music.

I've seen it fried chicken if you want to and I guess a starbucks is there at the church, I mean, it's just.

It's it's like it's like disney world and rather apropos because it's in disney world's back backyard.

But uh, yeah, I mean who wouldn't want to be baptized with that going on?

I mean.

You know their their baptistry is a cesspool.

Yes.

Of godless immorality yes being Blessed at some level.

Because they will not address the sin that needs to be repented of and they blaspheme the name of the

lord.

Jesus christ.

By having someone say jesus is lord who does no more than defer To the

gospel of jesus christ.

Amen, and anybody who is unwilling to speak out on this either is a coward.

Or doesn't understand the scriptures enough and they need to go back to sunday school.

First grade sunday school and i'm not trying to mock.

I believe this.

No, I I know you do.

And I I agree with with you 100 percent.

This is you know, I made the point in my interview with casey.

You know tom it's interesting that in every area of life.

We seek out the best.

We seek out people proficient in their field Of of expertise of work.

We want a good mechanic to fix our car.

We want the best dentist to fill our cavities.

We want the best plumber to fix our leaky sink even.

But when it comes to the the one thing that is by far the most important the shepherding the nurturing of our

eternal souls.

The the handling of god's eternal word who is god who is thrice holy.

Nothing is more important than that.

And yet when it comes to that.

Oh Anything will do you know?

He's got to win some personality.

Yeah, he might not be able to exegete himself out of a wet paper bag, but.

But.

But he's nice.

He tells nice stories.

I mean it is.

It is trivializing that which should be by far the most important thing to us.

We would not want a doctor who told us we had a cold when we have cancer.

Yeah, but they're fine with a pastor who tell to tell somebody they have the sniffles when in

reality they're dead.

That's right two one to three.

Yeah, we don't want to hear that.

We want to believe we're alive.

The thing that we hate more than anything else is rebels of god is to be told that we're under his wrath.

Uh, we we can't we believe too much well about ourselves.

And I preached ephesians two one to three sunday.

And addressed this very strongly.

I I addressed fbc orlando from the pulpit because it was apropos I was.

I was talking about when I preached when I preached ephesians two one to three.

I went back and looked at my notes.

And I preached last time I had preached it was in 1998.

That's 25 years ago.

Yeah.

And i've preached through many other books, but I hadn't preached through ephesians two one to ten and it may have been the first time I

preached it, but Uh, anyway, I went back and looked at my notes and in 1998 I said

because I was talking about how the age of this world uh sways us and how that unbelievers

and how that unbelievers uh will.

You know 25 years ago would be against things if the culture was against it if the sway of the world's against it.

They're against it.

And and if they're for it, they're for it.

Yeah.

Um.

And they're okay with morality as long as the culture is agreeing with it or you know having sense of morality.

Yeah.

And in 1998 I said these words our culture is beginning to accept and embrace homosexuality.

Our culture is.

Beginning to 25 years ago.

Yeah, and it really was.

They didn't believe in gay marriage back in 1998.

The majority didn't know and I said in that sermon.

That.

My life before my lifetime ends if I live long enough that gay marriage will be legal.

Yeah.

And people back then my wife affirmed this on sunday that people back then said tom you're just you overstate

things.

And I said, yes, I do.

I overstate a lot of things but not when it comes to I.

I Don't.

I try not to do that when it comes to the word of god even more so.

And it and it wasn't an overstatement I never did.

I dream That in 25 years We would move not only from gay to gay marriage.

But where a man is Standing before you that you can visibly see right

is a man, right?

Because there's no woman that ugly.

That's right.

Has what's her name?

Uh, that's the general.

Um.

Oh, man, it's clearly a man.

Rachel Levine.

Rachel Levine.

It's clearly a man.

And the world is saying this is a woman.

Yeah Yeah.

Uh, how did we get there.

Part of why we got there?

And i'm gonna say this and I believe it wholeheartedly.

Is because of churches like first baptist orlando and the sbc.

Who has coddled these type of churches for years?

That have pushed pragmatism and there's not been anybody standing on the walls.

Warning of the danger that is coming and when there have been men that have stood up to do that.

They've been scoffed.

They've been mocked.

They've been rebuked.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's right.

That's right.

You've suffered this.

Yourself, you're sure.

Yeah.

Yeah.

We we have gone from.

As you said 25 years ago Being you just could not even comprehend that one day

there would be Homosexual marriage and but now it's not only being accepted by the culture.

It's being accepted by the quote -unquote church.

That's right.

That That is shocking to me.

Um I mean, I think it was in 2008 That even california voted down

same -sex marriage.

I mean that that's just the state of california as liberal as it is and now we're

and now fast forward to 2022.

And.

We're baptizing I say we but some southern baptist churches are baptizing open

homosexual people.

That is shocking.

Yeah, let me share let me share this one story with you justin.

So people I don't think i've shared this with you.

But to show you That where I come from and what I believe about the power of the gospel.

Yeah in 19.

This would probably be 1997.

Okay, 19 around that time 97 98.

Yeah that I preached ephesians 2 1 2 3.

Uh.

We had a guy in our church.

Who.

Was a believer but came forward and confessed that he had struggled with Uh the issue of being

attracted to men.

He had even um Engaged in the past in that activity repented publicly

about it.

Was totally open with the elders and the church about his past, right?

Okay.

Um.

And he eventually He eventually, uh worked in our church not as a pastor not as a deacon.

I was an elder.

Okay, but he was openly repentant.

But I mean he was on the payroll, right?

Okay, right but We were very careful about where he you know where he was and all of those things.

So i'm you know, it wasn't over our children or anything of that nature not that not not that all homosexuals are attracted.

It's just we were careful, right?

Sure.

We didn't put him over our students or anything of that nature.

Yeah, but the point i'm sharing that with you his we we saw his life as being transformed and

changed.

He was repentant.

He was open.

He could there were certain areas that we wouldn't put him in to serve.

Yeah.

But we didn't shun the man.

Right.

So now I guarantee you That me doing that back in 95 96 whatever there

would have been some people who would have said That I that I shouldn't do that that are now on the other side, right?

Saying that that we need to be open where i'm talking about a biblical balance of the gospel.

That says you look at someone and you say if you continue in that lifestyle You're evidencing that you're never

saved.

That's right.

You're not going to inherit the kingdom of god.

That's right.

You need to come out of that and repent of that.

Yeah, there may be limitations for where you can serve in the church.

Even after that.

Sure.

But but you are still going to be a part of the body of christ.

Be open about your sin.

Don't Don't call yourself by that.

That's not what defines you.

That's right.

That's right.

So i'm not a a typical You know independent baptist fundamentalist

Who screams and squawks from the pulpit?

Homosexual jokes and attacking those That have turned to that lifestyle.

What I do is I love them enough to tell them they're under the wrath of god like every unbeliever is that part is true.

But that they must turn not just from the Activity, but they must turn from

defining themselves at any level By that attraction because that

is in and of itself is wicked.

Yeah, just as I would tell someone Who says i'm tempted to steal?

You need to repent even of the desire to steal.

Amen.

Because the the desire for something that is sinful is also in and of itself sinful.

Right, and we're not neither one of us tom is saying that uh after you're saved, you know.

If you're saved out of alcoholism, for example, say you were a drunk and now you got saved and

and you're no longer a drunk but we're not saying that For the rest of your life.

You're never going to have a passing thought like oh I'd like to have a beer right now, you know, you don't.

You can have these these thoughts but but when those sinful thoughts come You put them to death

you go to war with them make every thought captive.

It's every thought captive, right?

Yeah, it's not that a christian cannot be tempted, of course but as christians we We

we can stumble into sin, but we don't swim in it.

We don't coddle it.

We don't nurture it.

We're not at peace with it.

We're to be at war with our sin.

That's what a christian does.

He goes to war with his sin.

She goes to war with her sin.

So to say, you know You're okay in your homosexual desire.

Just don't act on it.

That.

That's not the gospel that's an insult to the gospel and it's uh, it's it's to diminish the very

very strong and very powerful words Of the apostle paul under the inspiration of the holy spirit of god in first

corinthians 6.

And we battle it at the level that it is.

So if a man has if he looks upon a woman and has lust in his heart for her.

He's in right so we confess even the desire.

Yeah, but we but you don't have but.

It's not the the next level the next level would be.

Well, is it wrong for me even have an attraction and we're talking about sexual right but even an

attraction towards men.

Or towards women that doesn't have to be confessed.

But someone who has a homosexual desire for a man.

He does have to even go to the level to say lord remove even the attraction for me because it's not.

It's not of you.

I repent of that.

I I want that to be rid ridden for ridden from me, um.

And they don't have to then live in guilt of that.

They just surrender it back to the lord and say they don't want to to have those thoughts anymore even the

attraction itself.

Yeah.

That's necessary to fight the sin at that level because it's a disordered desire.

Yeah.

Yeah.

As we were saying a few minutes ago, it's a fundamentally disordered desire.

Absolutely.

And people will say well temptations not sin.

Well.

Okay temptation just you know as the concept's not sin because jesus was tempted correct.

But he wasn't he wasn't.

We have internal temptations.

James talks about the fact that when I go into sin, it's because when tempted the desires draw me that

way.

Yeah, so jesus did not possess sinful desires.

That's right.

So when temptation comes me if you put something in front of me that I have no desire for It's

still a temptation right.

If somebody's tempting you with something.

Yeah, technically it's a temptation.

But if I have no desire for it, it does not have an internal temptation for it.

But you put something I really want in front of me now that external temptation Becomes internally

desiring.

Jesus didn't have that.

So people don't even understand what we mean by temptation.

Yeah.

So yes, sometimes temptation.

Is.

Absolutely sinful in and of itself because it's appealing to something within me that's wicked and evil.

Yeah, that's right.

Does that make sense?

Yeah in total sense.

Absolutely.

Absolutely, and I agree 100 % with you.

Yep.

Jesus was even tempted at his level of desire.

Right.

Say that this way so hunger.

He tempted.

But that desire is not evil, right?

It's not it's not sinful to be hungry.

That's right.

He tempted him at the desire to be made known to be the son of god.

That's not sinful.

But he wanted him to do it in a way that was self -promoting rather than god glorifying because the cross was the path.

It wasn't.

Jesus had the desire for all the kingdoms to be his.

Because the father had promised him to him.

But so satan tempts him was not because there was an evil desire in jesus because there wasn't.

That's right, but he he was tempting a good desire to be met in an evil way.

And so people just don't think deeply enough about these things and.

There's not enough theology in our church that can fill a thimble in most spc churches.

Okay, so that's why that they can be fooled so easily by sugar -coated candy.

Cotton candy theology.

Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely I know it's.

What we're seeing is is a a reflection of and unfortunately the bad fruit of many

many years of of an abandonment of expository preaching digging into the text.

So many southern baptist churches.

They just give these surfacy three points in a poem kind of sermons.

Topical.

Isagetical reading a meaning into the tech.

In fact, I should put the screenshot.

I think i've shown you the screenshot of From first baptist orlando on a sunday service.

I had a couple years ago and they had luke 14 26 on the screen and

uh, the the title apparently of the message was living within a budget.

You know when jesus talked about counting the cost.

And then they apparently read that into that that we should live.

Oh my goodness live within a budget like uh.

No, that's not what that verse is talking about at all.

But that's and we chuckle but that really is I know it's really an abuse of

of the word of god.

That that is that every person should get up and walk out.

That has the understanding of god's word immediately and never go back.

Yeah, that's right.

That's right.

And that and that's that's another thing that bothers me so much about what i've seen from first baptist orlando is like

Why are people in droves not leaving that church and walking out.

I mean, that's not even a south.

That's not a church.

I'll quote my wife.

That's not a church.

That's a goat farm and there there may be some some very immature

uh there, you know now let me put it this way malnourished sheep in that church, but

uh.

But boy they they need to leave because that's not a real church.

David youth danny the armists are not biblically qualified to be elders.

And um.

So they need to leave it's.

It is absolutely true.

And until we're willing to speak those things With boldness and they'll say who are you to judge?

Well, justin peters and tom buck are nobody to judge, right?

We but we stand all under the authority of the word of god.

And I should be judged by the same standard.

And they should be judged by that same standard.

And until we're willing to do that Uh things are not going to be any better.

And uh, we owe joel osteen an apology.

No kidding.

Uh, isn't that the truth?

I mean so many of us.

Saying to us i'm not southern baptist anymore, but as southern baptist, we've we've made fun of joel osteen.

What we're seeing from first baptist orlando.

Well, it might make joel osteen blush with shame.

I I mean it's certainly no better than what you would find at lakewood church.

It's it's just.

It's appalling.

It's the most hateful thing you can do for someone is to know the truth and not tell them and so that's what you and I Are trying to do.

We're trying to tell people the truth because we we actually believe.

What the bible says we actually believe that is that if someone dies in his sin or her sin

that they will Right, they will face god's undiluted wrath For all of eternity.

We believe that and we also believe that the gospel offers them

complete freedom and forgiveness and a new life

In eternity with christ, we believe that too.

People need to hear a proper diagnosis.

So that they can run for the proper cure.

Yeah, and and what these churches and the world does is they medicate you your problems, but

they don't give you the solution.

And that's what we're seeing take place.

I I don't hate any of these individuals.

I don't.

Um, you know, i'm not i'm not even angry.

I'm broken -hearted that it takes place.

I'm angry in one sense, you know righteous anger, but i'm not.

I don't feel any kind of you know inward, you know, whatever consternation uh within me.

And but we you know, whether whoever we're talking about this teaching false teaching whether it be joel Osteen or

be beth moore or be david youth or whoever it may be.

Yeah.

Um, we've got to call out the alexander's coppersmiths.

We've got we've got to say who they are and we've got to define what it is specifically that we have a

problem with and warn people.