October 21, 2019 Show with Dr. John S. Waldrip on “The Church of Jesus Christ: 28 Truths Every Christian Ought to Learn”

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Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

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Carwile, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,

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Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

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Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another.

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours and we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions and now here's your host

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Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet

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Earth who are listening via live streaming at IronSharpensIronRadio .com. This is

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Chris Arnzen your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio wishing you all a happy Monday on this 21st day of October 2019 and I'm thrilled to have at the very high recommendation of my very dear friend

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Pastor Joe Jakowicz of the First Love Radio, founder of First Love Radio that airs this program live streaming on their network and he is also the pastor of Christ Bible Church in Dublin, California and founder of First Love Publications and First Love Missions as well.

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He strongly recommended that I interview my guest today Dr. John S. Waldrop and I immediately took

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Joe up on his recommendation because I do not take his opinions lightly or his discernment for that matter and I'm looking forward to today's interview.

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Dr. John S. Waldrop is pastor of Calvary Road Baptist Church in Monrovia, California.

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He's also the founder of Classical Baptist Press and the host of the daily radio broadcast

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According to Thy Word. We're going to be addressing his latest book, The Church of Jesus Christ, 28

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Truths Every Christian Ought to Learn and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time ever to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Dr.

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John S. Waldrop. Well, thank you, Chris. Greetings from the People's Republic of California.

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Well, I'm glad you said it first because I've said that quite a number of times myself. Not that I was from there, but I've referred to your state in that fashion.

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I've lived long enough to see dramatic changes since I first arrived here in 1973 and I am like the fish swimming upstream, swimming against the current, because those that go with the flow are the dead fish.

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Well, before we go into the book and before we go into a summary of your personal testimony, which is something that is a tradition on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, when we have a first -time guest, tell our listeners something about Calvary Road Baptist Church in Monrovia, California.

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Well, Calvary Road Baptist Church was founded in 1975 by a

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Michigander transplant to Southern California, the late Harold C.

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Beagle. I think he was not a lifelong Baptist, but he got some exposure to the ministry of the

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First Baptist Church of Hammond, Indiana, and a fellow by the name of Jack Hiles, embraced his philosophy, moved to Southern California and started a church.

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After a number of years, he tendered his resignation to go and establish another congregation.

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And so the church solicited preachers from all over the place and I was brought in as pulpit supply just to speak on a

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Wednesday evening. And long story short, I ended up two months later becoming the second pastor.

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I'm now the second pastor for 34 years of tenure, as privileged to be the pastor of this church.

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Our ministry has changed dramatically over the years, and we can get into that as the program goes on, however you want to do that.

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But I would at present describe myself as a classical

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Baptist rather than I used to describe myself as an independent, fundamental

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Baptist. And from what I understand, you have theologically reformed leanings as well?

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I do, I do. Many things happen when you read. I am a proponent of reading.

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I was not raised in a Christian home, but my father was a guy who basically read a book a day.

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And he was a sharecropper's son. His story was very similar to the current

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Secretary of HUD, Ben Carson. Really? Who reading dramatically changed his life.

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My father was a sharecropper's kid of the fifth of eight children, and he was taught how to read by his sister when he was about four years old.

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The result was from time to time he would miss meals because he was so engrossed in reading.

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And his father, a very poor Christian man, would not allow his children to be called twice to the supper table.

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Wow. Call them once. If they're not hungry enough to come, they miss a meal. And my dad missed a number of meals, but ended up being far and away the largest of the family members, and had a voracious appetite for reading, which after my own conversion to Christ, I think that pattern of reading infected me.

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And so my basic philosophy is, you know, so many books, so little time. Well, we'll get into more of your personal story in a moment.

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In fact, I'm dying to hear how a congregation patterned after Jack Heil's ministry eventually became

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Reformed, at least Reformed -leaning. And let's hear something about now

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Classical Baptist Press. Well, Classical Baptist Press is my creation.

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I became disgruntled over time by the fact that I did a lot of reading.

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I became friends about 16, 17 years ago with a wonderful, wonderful pastor in Springfield, Missouri by the name of Gary Long.

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He pastors the Sovereign Grace Baptist Church of Springfield, Missouri. Now, is

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Gary the one who wrote the really excellent book on Definite Atonement? Because there's a couple of Gary Longs I know.

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You know, I don't know whether he did. There's also a Gary Long that runs Particular Baptist Press.

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That's him. Oh, okay, that's a different Gary Long, okay. He's among the most gracious men

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I have ever known. And we had considerably older friends in common.

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And I participated with him in the 300th anniversary celebration of the founding of the

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Philadelphia Baptist Association. So I had an opportunity, being on his committee, to bring that about.

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It opened up my world to a group of men. I had a chance to meet

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Tom Nettles and Greg Wills and Al Mohler and a number of other guys.

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And I was absolutely thrilled. It gave me a new direction for reading history.

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And I realized, my goodness, so many of my 20th century

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Baptist brethren are philosophically cut off from the

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Baptists of the centuries before. And the more I became aware of it, the more disgruntled

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I became. I didn't grow up in a Christian home, so I wasn't bound by any tradition of the church

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I grew up in or any family heritage or anything like that.

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So I was kind of as free a moral agent as my theology permits me to be.

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Yeah, it is amazing how many of our either fundamentalist

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Baptist friends or more mainstream evangelical

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Baptist friends who think they are living and believing and teaching according to what

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Baptists have always taught. And in many ways, they are the polar opposite of what the greatest heroes of Baptist history have taught, like Charles Spurgeon and so on.

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And it's just amazing how ignorant many of our brethren outside of Sovereign Grace, Calvinistic, and Reformed circles, how ignorant they are of this historical fact.

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I find this, yes, I am in complete agreement with you. Nothing that began to be practiced in 1920 can possibly be a landmark of the faith.

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It just can't be. And what even makes it more amazing is that many of them claim to uphold

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Charles Spurgeon as a great hero of theirs, and I wonder how little of Spurgeon could they have read to come up with that idea in their minds.

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Well, a fellow who published for decades and decades a fundamentalist periodical would frequently, almost on a weekly basis, publish the sermons of strong Calvinist men.

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And he never once indicated or suggested to anyone that he was severely editing their sermons.

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Was that the sword of the Lord? Yes. Yeah, I've heard that. And in addition to that, he would portray a classical five -point

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Calvinist as a hyper -Calvinist. Right. And I'm thinking he had to know that the first ten years, at least, of Spurgeon's ministry in London, the young fellow waged war against hyper -Calvinism as a five -point

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Calvinist. Ergo, a five -point Calvinist cannot be a hyper -Calvinist.

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That's right. And Ian Murray wrote a fine book on the subject. Yes. Well, he wrote two, actually.

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Yeah, The Slam Dunk. Yeah, he wrote The Forgotten Spurgeon and Spurgeon vs.

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Hyper -Calvinism. Yes, yes. I've heard the latter, but yes.

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And John Zenz, years ago, confronted

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The Sword of the Lord and its editor about rewriting what

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Spurgeon actually wrote, and his response was, since Spurgeon is in heaven, he would agree with our changes.

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It's nice to be able to read minds. I'm guessing that it is.

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I've never been able to do that. One of the things that kind of prompted me along the way to write the book was, in my course of reading the

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Bible over these 45 years that I have known our wonderful Lord, is a principle that in large measure has been forgotten these days, and that's the principle that matters of fact are established in the mouths of two or three witnesses.

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You find that from Genesis to Revelation. God holds himself to that standard. And yet some people will, you know, they'll claim it's so because one person said, or they'll make it so because one person believed.

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No, that's... We have a...

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God has provided for us a wonderful methodology for ascertaining the reliability of facts and information, and I find that in Revelation chapter 1, where the messenger from God and the

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Savior signified it to John the Revelator. In other words, he gave to him verifiable attestation of the facts.

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And that's just the way God deals with people. He doesn't want us to operate on presumption and assumption, and there's so much misreading even of what faith is.

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I'm convinced that faith is the right conclusion drawn from circumstantial evidence, and God provides us abundant circumstantial evidence to lead us in the direction he would have us to go.

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Amen. And by the way, tell our listeners about According to Thy Word, the radio broadcast that airs on First Love Radio.

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Yes, it is. It airs on Pacific Daylight, Pacific Time. It's 5 o 'clock in the afternoon.

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I come right after Austin Huggins, and it is edited versions of my sermons and Bible teachings

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Sunday morning, Sunday night, Wednesday night. In order for it to be palatable for other human beings, my sniffs, coughs, snorts have to be removed, because I'm a sniffer and a cougher and a snorter.

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I'm an allergy guy, you know. Well, you're going to be spreading gossip if you call yourself a snorter.

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We have to be careful about that. Yeah, especially here in Southern California. That's right.

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But almost everything here is either legal or unenforced law.

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Okay. I have a group of people, a group of wonderful church members who listen, and they can tell, you know.

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I've got a snort coming up. I've got a sniff coming up. I've got a cough coming up. And they edit that stuff out to make my messages considerably more palatable than they otherwise would be.

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Well, I have done that for many years. I did it for my own church where I was a member on Long Island, New York, Grace Reformed Baptist Church, when we had a program that I created, actually, called

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The Voice of Sovereign Grace, which aired on the Salem Media Network involving five different Sovereign Grace -believing churches that all shared that program, and each one hosted one night of the week,

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Monday through Friday. And I edited my own pastor's sermons. And that was in the day when

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I used a double cassette recorder. I didn't have anything fancy, which made it a lot more arduous and difficult.

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But I got the hang of it. And more recently, using modern technology, I have edited the sermons of the recently retired pastor,

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Ron Glass, of Waiting River Baptist Church on Long Island, New York, because he had a program that I helped create also,

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The River of Life, but now Pastor Ron is retired. But I know what it's like to be involved in that process.

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So if anybody wants to listen to According to Thy Word, just go to FirstLoveRadio .org,

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FirstLoveRadio .org, and it will be live -streamed for you anywhere in the world. And you would listen if you're on the

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West Coast at 5 p .m., Monday through Friday, and on the East Coast where I am, 8 p .m.,

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Monday through Friday. And my sermon manuscripts are also posted every week at CalvaryRoadBaptist .Church.

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www .CalvaryRoadBaptist .Church. Every one of my sermon manuscripts are up. And also, for those of our listeners who want to investigate

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Classical Baptist Press, go to ClassicalBaptist .Press, ClassicalBaptist .Press.

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Now, just out of curiosity, I don't want to take too much time on this, since we do have your book that we want to discuss, but why do you prefer now the term

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Classical instead of Independent Fundamental, and perhaps even also instead of Reformed?

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Yeah, that's a good question. I guess I should begin by answering. I know of no unanimity among Baptists on this issue, okay?

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I think it's probably in Baptist DNA to not be unanimous about very much.

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Just a quick, very quick joke. There are three people who abandoned a sinking ship and got onto a lifeboat.

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One was, I'm sorry, there were six people on this lifeboat. Two were

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Roman Catholics, two were Jews, and two were Baptists. And they finally drifted to an island where they sought refuge.

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And as soon as they got established on the island, the two Roman Catholics built the cathedral, the two

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Jews built the synagogue, and the two Baptists built First Baptist Church and Second Baptist Church. I'm sorry, but I digress.

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Well, my wife and I celebrated our 44th wedding anniversary Friday, and we went to the

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Getty Museum, and then we drove through Los Angeles. And as we were driving along Wilshire Boulevard from the west side into downtown

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L .A., I hadn't planned on doing this, but we drove by the Emanuel Presbyterian Church.

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The Emanuel Presbyterian Church was the place where the fundamentals was created.

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The writers who wrote what came to be known as the Fundamentals, it was an effort by the

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Emanuel Presbyterian Church to bring that about. A lot of independent fundamental

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Baptists are not aware of that. And one of the reasons why many

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Southern Baptists were always reluctant to refer to themselves as fundamentalists, even those who were very strongly conservative, was because they were just aware of the fact that it was the result of mainly a

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Presbyterian effort. So anyway, I think the view has sadly been hijacked over the years.

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It used to be, if I know my history well enough, it used to be back in the day that Evangelicals and Fundamentalists were synonymously the same thing, and that Christians who held those positions were viewed in relatively high esteem by the non -believing world.

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And then I think it was Mencken and the Scopes Monkey Trial, where he wrote daily articles and opinion pieces without once going to the city, without once leaving

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Baltimore, and he successfully turned the tide and Fundamentalism became the view and the position of rubes and uneducated buffoons and things like that.

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And sadly, over the years, some people have lowered to the bar.

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And I find that so many guys that I know who love the

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Lord, who believe the Bible, nevertheless they have an attitude that, would a good word be, to learning anything they think they don't already know.

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And it's sad, and I found myself uncomfortable with that. I found myself, hold it a second, you're calling

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Charles Spurgeon a heretic? Are you out of your mind? You're calling

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William Carey a heretic?

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I think your Adonai Judson was unscriptural. I can't believe this.

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I've read too much, and I know otherwise. And so I found myself, just simply for the sake of accuracy, trying to self -describe in a way that was a bit more in line with what my belief system was.

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And here in Southern California, where basically the Azusa Street pseudo -revival began, and where New Evangelicalism began in 1947, and the charismatic movement began in 1962, and Scientology took root,

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I find myself with difficulty describing myself as an

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Evangelical. Because so many in the Evangelical community simply don't hold any doctrinal rigidity at all.

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And let me illustrate that with this point. Here in Monrovia, I'm about ten miles from Pasadena, so I'm not very far from Ambassador Auditorium, which was owned by the

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Worldwide Church of God, and the genuine heretic, Herbert W.

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Armstrong. Right, didn't they call that Big Sandy? I think that's what the insiders called that building, that facility.

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I don't know, but it was an absolutely beautiful structure. But when Herbert W. Armstrong died, and then, according to his theology, discovered that he was not born again, his movement was taken over not by his

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Bill Clinton -like son, Garner Ted Armstrong, but another guy, and the guy who,

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I can't remember his name, but after several years, he moved from his anti -Trinitarian position that the

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Worldwide Church of God had held, and he led the group to embrace Trinitarianism.

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The astonishing thing to me is that the entirety of Southern California Evangelicalism immediately embraced them as, now, they're

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Christians like us. No, if a person is a Jehovah Witness, and obviously does not know the

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Lord, denying the deity of Christ, just because he changes his position from anti -Trinitarianism to Trinitarianism does not make him a

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Christian. There's lots of Trinitarians who are not believers in Christ, and yet the

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Evangelical community wholeheartedly, and without any apparent discernment of any kind, have embraced the

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Worldwide Church of God, and without anything approaching a grace movement taking place.

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They just changed one point of theology, and that made them okay with everybody.

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And so, ah, that left me with a bit of a bad taste in my mouth. Well, we are going to our first break, and when we come back from the first break,

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I'd like you to provide for us a summary of your salvation testimony, and then we will move on to the main theme at hand.

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I would love to. That we are going to be discussing today. Your book, your new book,

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The Church of Jesus Christ, 28 Truths Every Christian Ought to Learn. Our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com

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chrisarnson at gmail .com And as always, please at least give us your first name, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence, if you live outside the

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USA. Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

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And we look forward to hearing from you and your questions for John Waldrip after these messages from our sponsor.

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p .m., 33 Bayshore Road, Deer Park, New York. Welcome back, this is

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Chris Arnzen, if you just tuned us in. Our guest today is Dr. John S.

32:27

Waldrip, pastor of Calvary Road Baptist Church in Monrovia, California, founder of Classical Baptist Press, and host of the daily radio broadcast

32:38

According to Thy Word. We are going to be discussing his latest book today, The Church of Jesus Christ, 28

32:44

Truths Every Christian Ought to Learn. Our email address, if you have questions of your own, is chrisarnzen at gmail .com.

32:52

C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com. And please, as always, give us your first name, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence, if you live outside the

33:01

USA. Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal or private matter.

33:09

And one of the things that I found fascinating, giving an overview of your own personal biography before the broadcast, is that you were raised on an

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Indian reservation. Yes, yes. Actually, on a number of them. I was born in the

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Holy Land, the panhandle of Texas, about 100 miles east of Amarillo. I've always referred to Texas as the

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Holy Land. In fact, there are many Reformed Baptists who refer to Montville, New Jersey as the Holy Land. But I'm sorry.

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My father went to college on the GI Bill, and when he graduated from college, there was a government recruiter in the area, and a large number of veterans who graduated from colleges in the state of Texas were hired to work in various positions in the

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Bureau of Indian Affairs across the United States. My dad's first position was as a teacher in a one -room schoolhouse in a place called

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Cherry Creek, South Dakota, where my dad taught for a couple of years. And he had an opportunity to meet the last living survivor of the

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Battle of Wounded Knee, and the last living survivor of the Battle of the

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Little Bighorn. So a couple of years later, my brother got born, and we moved to another

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Indian reservation in South Dakota. A couple of years after that, we moved to a place called

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Fort Totten, North Dakota, and this is where my story begins, my spiritual story.

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Because in the summer of 1956, on the last Indian reservation in the

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United States where they kept army soldiers to deal with the grandchildren of Sitting Bull and Crazy Horse, I started school.

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I was the only white kid in an all -Indian school, so basically I grew up in another country, completely different cultural milieu than anybody else.

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And they had a vacation Bible school, and I heard a vacation

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Bible school lesson. I paid little attention. I was very disruptive.

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I was one of these kids that bounced off the walls. Had I been born later, I would have been medicated,

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I'm sure. But I was a hyperactive, hyper -revved, high -energy kid.

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We moved from North Dakota to Florida. My dad worked with Seminole Indians. Then we moved up to Oregon and Central Oregon.

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I went to church maybe six or seven times my whole life, my dad taking us, and I was wondering why.

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I had a couple of times at Oregon State University. When I was at engineering school,

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I got witnessed to by a guy, and the only reason I let this guy witness to me was

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I was thunderstruck by his wife. She was an astonishing woman, and it wasn't the fact that she was the most beautiful woman

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I'd ever seen. It was, I think, the first time I had ever laid eyes on a radiant, glowing

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Christian woman. Something tells me you're in the doghouse tonight with your own wife.

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No, she's heard this story so many times. But I let this guy witness to me, and basically he took me through the four spiritual laws, and it had no impression on me at all.

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Then I graduated from engineering school and moved to Southern California, started working in El Segundo, which is the city where the

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Cold War was won, because that's where all the corporations that had the spy satellites and all those kinds of things had their engineering operations.

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And I worked on the design of a spy satellite. But I moved there to commit sin.

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And a year and a half after I moved there, my co -worker, a guy named

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Tony, we had gone carousing one evening on the beach cities near Los Angeles, and I came back to work

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Monday morning, and I said, hey man, that was great, let's do that again. And he said to me, no,

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I'm not going to be doing that ever again, John. And I said, why? He said,

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I became a Christian yesterday, and I have no plans to ever do those kinds of things again as long as I live.

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My immediate reaction to Tony was, we're done. I utterly dissed him.

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A week later, I'm at home, nothing to do, no place to go, no friends to carouse with at the moment.

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And late at night, I got a Bible, a Bible that my mother gave me when

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I graduated from college. And I thought, why in the world would you give me this? My mother was not a

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Christian. She said, I just thought you might want one. Why? Well, a couple of years later,

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I'm reading the Bible, I read the book of Genesis, and then I went to bed. The next night,

38:50

I was reading Exodus, and I got to chapter 12, which deals with the Passover, and I asked myself out loud, why did the

38:58

Lamb have to die? And let me tell you something, Chris, God brought back a flood of memories from 17 years earlier.

39:10

I remembered for the first time the names of the two women who taught the Vacation Bible School, Miss Peabody and Miss Rupp.

39:17

I remembered that they came from Canada. I remembered the lesson they taught.

39:22

I remembered the verse they taught from John 129. I remembered the verse,

39:29

Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. I sat back at my chair.

39:36

I was astonished. And I immediately recognized,

39:42

I am in deep, I am in deep trouble. I recognized, no need to convince me of my sinfulness.

39:52

I was a bad boy. And I knew it. And I recognized,

39:59

I am estranged from God. And somehow, God fit together, the

40:05

Spirit of God illuminated my understanding such that I recognized that the Old Testament types and shadows prefigured the reality that was

40:14

Christ. I got up from my chair, walked into my bedroom, looked out the back window.

40:22

It was about 2 o 'clock in the morning. And I trusted Christ as my Savior. It was...

40:27

Praise God. Had somebody been there, a fly on the wall would have noticed nothing except for a moment or two, this silly fool is breathing heavy in his chair.

40:39

And then he gets up and walks into another room. But the next day, as I got up and I shaved, got ready for work,

40:47

I thought to myself, did something happen to me last night? Because I didn't know.

40:52

I was so profoundly ignorant. And I thought to myself, well, if something really happened, it will show.

41:00

It will show. So I went to work. I was one of these guys.

41:05

I was what's called a member of the technical staff at Hughes Aircraft Company, which meant no time card punching.

41:12

I was free. I could do anything I wanted to as long as I got my work done. I was the design engineer.

41:18

And what I typically did was I went out and got drunk every day. I would go to lunch at 11 o 'clock, 11 .30,

41:25

and come back about 2 and come from the spacecraft assembly area so my boss would think

41:31

I had been at the spacecraft assembly area all afternoon. No, I hadn't been.

41:37

I had been at Hermosa Beach at a saloon. Our testimonies sound a lot alike.

41:43

Without the aerospace. Yeah, that day, instead of going for my liquid lunch diet,

41:51

I walked into a conference room that I had not previously consciously been aware of a

41:57

Bible study being going. But I went in there, sat down. The other guys were like, uh -oh, he's here.

42:04

Because I was a loud, obnoxious, drunk, and prone to threats of physical violence.

42:16

And apparently their Monday routine was to go around the table giving testimonies about what their church experience had been like.

42:25

And when it got to me, a guy said, so, John, do you have anything to say? The leader.

42:31

And I said, uh, yeah. I think I became one of you guys yesterday.

42:36

Wow. That's the best testimony I could muster. Well. Chris, do you allow vulgarisms on your show?

42:46

The next phase, the next phase is, after the Bible study, I went back to my desk and my best friend from Oregon State walked up to me.

42:56

And he stood over me in a very dominant position over me. And he looked down at me and he said, so,

43:04

John, and he pointed to a Christian, are you one of them now? And I thought to myself,

43:11

I think this is a significant time in my life. I have no idea what really happened.

43:16

I think I kind of get an idea. But I looked up at him and I thought I need to respond strongly and affirmatively.

43:24

So I said, you're darn right I am. But I didn't use the word darn. Yeah, we usually only allow vulgarisms when we're interviewing

43:32

Lutherans. So he laughed at me. I mean, he laughed out loud and everybody in the engineering laboratory overheard the conversation.

43:45

And he said, what an appropriate choice of words. And he turned around and laughed at me walking away.

43:51

Well, the result was they immediately cut me off.

43:57

Every single one of them. They never again tempted me with an invitation to go anywhere or do anything with them.

44:06

And in retrospect, it was the best thing that ever happened because I got cut off from a wicked lifestyle.

44:13

Like a meat cleaver, just cut off. So that's how I came to Christ, March 31st, 1974.

44:21

Praise God. By the way, there is another similarity or at least connection between you and I is that my father,

44:30

Harry, spent his entire adult life in the aerospace industry.

44:37

My dad passed in 1998. But he, in the 60s, perhaps even earlier than that, in fact,

44:48

I know it was earlier than that. It was long before the 60s that he began working at Republic Aviation on Long Island.

44:55

And my father designed the thrust reverse, which now every jet has to enable it to land.

45:03

My father then, after working for Republic, beginning in the 60s and continuing through the 70s, he worked for Grumman Aviation, Grumman Aerospace.

45:18

And he was on the team that designed the lunar module. Wow. And I can even still remember that there was something extra special about the moon landing when

45:30

I was a little boy, watching it on our black and white TV with my brother. I can still even remember we were eating tater tots.

45:39

And then my father, before his retirement, worked for Sikorsky Helicopter in Connecticut.

45:47

Oh, wow, wonderful, wonderful. And I had the privilege of working with two old guys who worked with Howard Hughes on the

45:56

Spruce Goose. And so talk about the legacy of the aerospace industry on both coasts is a rich heritage indeed.

46:05

It really, really is. Yeah. Wow. It was wonderful. Before we go to the middle way break and then continue with your book theme,

46:15

I was just curious what it was like growing up on the Indian Reservation with the Native American children.

46:21

And just was curious if you ever returned to any of those reservations with the gospel.

46:26

Just give us more of a detailed explanation or description of life as a child on the

46:32

Indian Reservation. Yeah. The Indian Reservation is a terrible place for a human being to live because it is the closest approximation to communism in the

46:44

United States. Wow. Because there is a special relationship that exists between the

46:51

United States government and every sovereign Indian nation. Because what happened is by treaty obligation the

46:58

United States government has certain treaty guaranteed responsibilities toward Native Americans.

47:08

The result of that is they live in an environment that is absolutely and utterly stifling to creativity and individuality.

47:20

They live lives of hopelessness. There are Indian reservations where the tribal police are instructed do not take a drunk

47:30

Indian into custody because when they awaken from their stupor they attempt suicide if they're in jail.

47:41

Wow. And to avoid attempting suicide they'll just put them in the back of the car let them do what intoxicated individuals do and when they wake up and sober up they drop them off at their house.

47:54

So it's a terrible thing. There are gospel ministries on virtually every reservation.

48:01

The most successful that I'm aware of were on the Seminole Reservations in Florida because the missionaries that went there and learned the languages were

48:10

Baptist missionaries. And I had the opportunity of knowing Bill and Billy Osceola who were first cousins direct descendants of the famous Seminole chief

48:23

Osceola and they were the only tribe to never lose to the

48:28

United States Army. They never lost a war. They were never a conquered people and they have never they have never they have never had a treaty relationship with the

48:40

United States because at a certain point the federal government said no more treaties. So the United States has just assumed the same posture toward Seminoles as they do toward everyone else.

48:50

But there is desperate need there is a tremendous amount of historical error because one of the things that is not recognized today is from the very beginnings of European arrival on the

49:11

American coast there were very conscientious efforts to evangelize the

49:16

Indians. The Presbyterians, the Congregationalists, the Baptists were all deeply committed to reaching every human being they could and there were large numbers of Native Americans who ended up coming to Christ.

49:32

Just as Josephus lets us know that there were a large number of Jewish people who turned to Christ in the first century.

49:40

Well what happens if a person of one ethnic group begins to worship and serve

49:47

God with someone of a radically different ethnic group? You get to liking those people you get to loving those people and your kids end up marrying their kids.

49:59

And so we don't have much of a record of the number of Jewish Christians down through the centuries.

50:06

Why? Because they did not maintain their ethnic identity. They mixed and mingled with the

50:11

Gentiles they went to church with. The same kind of thing happened to Native Americans over the last couple of hundred years.

50:18

They came to know Christ. They were welcomed with open arms in churches unless on the reservation they started a

50:25

Native American church there. And the kids grew up with each other and they married each other and that kind of...

50:35

And I've always been convinced that the only real solution to racial divides is the grace of God.

50:44

Amen. And these guys are examples of race basically dealing with the race question and the race issue.

50:53

So yeah, there are lots of Christians on reservations but frequently they don't stay.

51:01

Because with the renewing of the mind that God promises to his children they grow, they develop, they become entrepreneurial.

51:11

You know, like after the Protestant Reformation the rise of the middle class in Europe I think was the direct result of a heaven -sent revival.

51:20

Amen. Poor people coming to Christ, God renews their mind, they learn biblical concepts, they begin living their lives and practicing delayed gratification.

51:33

That is, the Christian life is not delayed gratification. We don't get heaven now, we wait for it.

51:39

Right. And so many other aspects of life that resulted in the

51:45

Reformation, Northern Europe, and Scotland and England, and the rise of the American middle class.

51:51

I'm persuaded that the threat to the American middle class that we have today is the result of a turning away from God's word.

52:00

And if you want to see Romans chapter 1 being lived out day -to -day, go to downtown

52:05

L .A. Right. You see people who are living in ways that are inexplicable apart from Romans chapter 1.

52:16

And it's sad. Yes. We have to go to our midway break right now, it's a longer than normal break because Grace Life Radio 90 .1

52:22

FM in Lake City, Florida requires of us a longer break during the mid -portion of the show because they air their own public service announcements in order to localize

52:35

Iron Trip and Zion Radio to Lake City, Florida, a requirement of the FCC. So please be patient as we take this longer than normal break.

52:43

And also, use this time wisely, write down information that is provided by our advertisers so that you can more frequently and successfully patronize them.

52:50

Because remember, without your patronage, our advertisers are not likely going to stick around and we need them to exist.

52:58

We need the financial support that comes through their advertising. So please try to patronize our advertisers as much as you can.

53:04

Also send in questions to our guest today, John S. Waldrop at chrisarnson at gmail .com

53:10

chrisarnson at gmail .com Don't go away, we'll be right back after this break with more of Dr.

53:16

John Waldrop after these messages from our sponsors. Chris Arnson, host of Iron Trip and Zion Radio, announcing a new website with an exciting offer from World Magazine, my trusted source for news from a

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Gotta tell you, for my money, Chris Arnzen's radio program is just the best.

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Iron. Criticizing. Iron. I think that's what it's called.

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This is Todd Friel of Wretched Radio and TV, with Phil Johnson of Grace to You, inviting everybody to come to the

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G3 conference, which has almost instantly become one of the best conferences in the country. And it is.

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It's a great conference. I love it. And Chris Arnzen was there last year. He's been there, I think, every year.

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It's great to see him there. You and I actually did some recordings in the lobby at that place.

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So tons of stuff going on. Tons of great speakers. And no matter where you are in the building, you will hear

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Tony Costa, Professor of Apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary. I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak and have grown to love,

56:21

Hope Reform Baptist Church in Coram, Long Island, New York, pastored by Rich Jensen and Christopher McDowell.

56:28

It's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of God like the dear saints at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Coram, who have an intensely passionate desire to continue digging deeper and deeper into the unfathomable riches of Christ in His Holy Word, and to enthusiastically proclaim

56:45

Christ Jesus the King and His doctrines of sovereign grace in Suffolk County, Long Island, and beyond.

56:52

I hope you also have the privilege of discovering this precious congregation and receive the blessing of being showered by their love as I have.

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For more information on Hope Reform Baptist Church, go to hopereformedli .net

57:08

That's hopereformedli .net Or call 631 -696 -5711

57:17

That's 631 -696 -5711 Tell the folks at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island, New York that you heard about them from Tony Costa on Iron Sharpens Iron When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the

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James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here. If you've watched my Dividing Line webcast often enough, you know

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That's PTLBibleRebinding .com I'm so grateful to our

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Sovereign God that while manning an exhibitor's booth for Iron, Sharp, and Ziren at a major Bible conference I providentially met

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Pastor Andrew Smith of Christ Reformed Community Church just south of Jacksonville, Florida right off I -95 in St.

01:01:11

Johns County. Andrew is certainly the kind of pastor that is a perfect match for my radio show and has already proven to be an ideal guest.

01:01:20

Christ Reformed Community Church shares my conviction that God is both creator and sustainer of the universe.

01:01:27

He rules and reigns providentially over our lives. He directs not only the historical events of the world but also the personal events of individuals.

01:01:37

I agree with Christ Reformed Community Church that the very purpose of the church is to make disciples, that we are tasked with the responsibility to evangelize locally, nationally, and globally, and that we are to equip the saints for the work of service.

01:01:52

Unlike the man -centered, seeker -sensitive movement, they do not gauge the success of biblical discipleship by how many people are in a church but by the faithful ministry of God's Word and Gospel.

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For more details on Christ Reformed Community Church, visit ChristReformedCC .com

01:02:10

That's ChristReformedCC .com Or call 904 -955 -9881

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That's 904 -955 -9881

01:02:24

Tell Pastor Andrew that you heard about them on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. I'm Pastor Andrew Smith, and I'd like to urge you to consider joining

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01:02:37

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. Hi, I'm Stephan Lindblad, Assistant Professor of Systematic Theology at IRBS Theological Seminary in Mansfield, Texas.

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I accepted this call to teach at the seminary because I'm firmly convinced that the people of God in the churches of our

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Lord Jesus Christ need to be firmly grounded in the truth of Holy Scripture. I'm excited to be teaching such subjects as the nature of theology and the doctrine of Scripture and even the doctrine of the person and work of Jesus Christ.

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Our churches and our people need to be well -grounded in these truths. Indeed, future ministers of the

01:03:25

Gospel need to understand these truths in order to proclaim them to all of God's people.

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If you want to learn more about our program, visit us online at irbsseminary .org.

01:03:50

As host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, I frequently get requests from listeners for church recommendations.

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The church I've been strongly recommending as far back as the 1980s is Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey, pastored by Alan Dunn.

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Grace Covenant Baptist Church believes it's God's prerogative to determine how He shall be worshipped and how

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He shall be represented in the world. They believe churches need to turn to the Bible to discover what to include in worship and how to worship

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God in spirit and truth. Grace Covenant Baptist Church endeavors to maintain a

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Psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs. Baptism and communion are the scriptural elements of their corporate worship, performed with faith, joy, and sobriety.

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Or call them at 908 -996 -7654. That's 908 -996 -7654.

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Tell Pastor Dunn that you heard about Grace Covenant Baptist Church on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. Did you know that all believers are priests?

01:05:24

In 1 Peter 2, verse 9, the Apostle Peter describes Christ's church as comprising a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God's own possession, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light.

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So if you're a Christian, you're also a priest. Now you can find the newest styles in Reformed and Protestant apparel at CitizenPriest .com.

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Visit CitizenPriest .com today. Chris Orensen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio here.

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I want to tell you about a man I have personally known for many years. His name is Dan Buttafuoco.

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Dan cares about people, and is a theologian himself. Recently, he wrote a book titled

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Consider the Evidence for the Bible. Ravi Zacharias wrote the foreword.

01:06:48

Dan also has a master's degree in theology. Dan handles serious injury and medical malpractice cases in all 50 states.

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He represents many Christians in serious injury matters all over the country. Dan is an exceptional trial lawyer.

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He wrote the test for the National Board of Trial Advocacy, and currently his firm has over 100 cases that have settled for $1 million or more, and in approximately 10 different states.

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In Illinois, his lawyers had the fourth largest settlement in the state's history. In New York, his case involving a paralyzed police officer made the front page of the

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I recommend that you call Dan. Consultations are free. There is no fee unless you win.

01:07:40

Dan Buttafuoco's number is 1 -800 -669 -4878, 1 -800 -669 -4878, or email me for Dan's contact information at chrisarnson at gmail dot com.

01:07:53

That's chrisarnson at gmail dot com. Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said,

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Give yourself unto reading. The man who never reads will never be read.

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you're helping Iron Sharpens Iron Radio remain on the air for a longer future.

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Because of the fact that they are a primary sponsor, I can't even imagine, barring a miracle,

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01:10:28

Dr. John S. Waldrip, we have just a couple of important announcements to make regarding special events that are coming up that I hope that you will join me in attending.

01:10:40

The first one is coming up very soon. This is the Doctrines of Grace Conference being hosted by Long Island Spurgeon Fellowship, a number of churches on Long Island, New York, who have affirmed the historic teachings of the

01:10:57

Church, and in particular, the doctrines of sovereign grace. And each of those, or a number of those pastors of those churches will be speaking at the

01:11:09

Doctrines of Grace Conference at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Coram, Long Island, New York.

01:11:14

The sessions include God's Sovereignty, Total Depravity, Unconditional Election, Limited Atonement, Perseverance of the

01:11:22

Saints, Is Calvinism Biblical?, and a question and answer session with the audience.

01:11:29

And if you would like to join me there, I intend to be there November 1st and 2nd.

01:11:35

That's a Friday and Saturday. Go to reformedrookie .com reformedrookie .com

01:11:43

That is the website for the podcast of New York Apologetics and my dear friend

01:11:48

Anthony Eugenio. reformedrookie .com That's reformed, R -O -O -K -I -E .com

01:11:53

Or you could also call Hope Reform Baptist Church in Coram, Long Island at 631 -696 -5711 631 -696 -5711

01:12:03

You can also get directions to Hope Reform Baptist Church at hopereformedli .net

01:12:10

hopereformedli .net I hope to see you there Friday and Saturday, November 1st and 2nd in Coram, Long Island at Hope Reform Baptist Church.

01:12:19

Then, coming up in December, Thursday and Friday, December 19th and 20th,

01:12:25

I am going to be, God willing, attending the Foundations Conference, a conference of sermonaudio .com

01:12:32

in the heart of Manhattan, my old stomping grounds. And this is always a phenomenal conference.

01:12:38

I love this conference. And the lineup of speakers is outstanding.

01:12:44

We have Dr. Stephen J. Lawson on the roster, Paul Washer, Rev. Jeff Thomas, Rev. Armen Tamassian, who

01:12:51

I keep reminding you, I believe strongly will be a household name amongst Reformed Christians over the next decade.

01:12:56

He's a young man, but with gifts and abilities and biblical wisdom far beyond his age.

01:13:04

That's Rev. Armen Tamassian. Remember I told you first here on Iron Sharpened Zion Radio that he will become a household name.

01:13:11

And I'm not a prophet, that's just an educated guess. But Richard Corwell Jr.

01:13:17

and Andrew Quigley are also on the lineup. I do not know these men and have not yet heard them preach. But since SermonAudio .com

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selected them, I'm very confident they're magnificent preachers because they are very, very fussy over at SermonAudio .com.

01:13:32

If you want to join me there at the Foundations Conference in New York City December 19th and 20th, that's a Thursday and Friday, go to TheFoundationsConference .com

01:13:41

TheFoundationsConference .com This is a conference only for men in ministry leadership. They can only fit less than 200 people in the venue where they have this conference.

01:13:49

So if you're a man in ministry leadership, you are qualified to attend. Then in January from the 16th through the 18th, that's

01:14:00

Thursday through Saturday, I will be once again at, God willing, the

01:14:05

G3 Conference. This will be my fourth G3 Conference in a row in Atlanta, Georgia, more specifically

01:14:11

College Park, Georgia, at the Georgia International Convention Center. This is a truly breathtaking and amazing and profound conference with the longest roster of speakers

01:14:23

I've ever experienced at a conference. And every single one of the speakers is absolutely superb.

01:14:29

We have once again Dr. Stephen J. Lawson speaking. We have the founder of the G3 Conference, Josh Bice.

01:14:36

And if you have never heard Josh Bice preach, you've got to go to Sermon Audio or his church website and hear him preach.

01:14:46

The church is Praise Mill Baptist Church and Praise is spelled P -R -A -Y apostrophe S. Praise Mill Baptist Church in Douglasville, Georgia.

01:14:54

He is outstanding. My friend, Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries, Phil Johnson, the

01:15:01

Executive Director of Grace to You, the Media Ministry of John MacArthur. And by the way,

01:15:06

Phil has been interviewed on this program, Iron Trip and Zion Radio, more than any other person in the history of our broadcast.

01:15:13

Another friend of mine, Todd Friel, who I love to interview. He is the founder and host of Wretched TV and Wretched Radio.

01:15:21

He will be speaking. Pastor Derek Thomas, the world -renowned Presbyterian author, preacher, teacher, and conference speaker.

01:15:31

My friend, Dr. Tom Askell, the Executive Director of Founders Ministries, the

01:15:36

Calvinistic Ministry and the Southern Baptist Convention, who you just heard on this program very recently. He's been interviewed quite a number of times here as well.

01:15:44

We have Stephen J. Nichols, the President of Reformation Bible College, the college founded by the late

01:15:50

R .C. Sproul and Ligonier Ministries. Kosti Hinn, the nephew of the notorious charlatan and heretic,

01:15:57

Benny Hinn. And Kosti has renounced his uncle and his heresies and has made it a mission in life to expose the dangerous, deceptive, and damning and deadly doctrines of the

01:16:11

Word of Faith movement. Kosti Hinn is now a Reformed Baptist pastor. And unlike what you heard

01:16:17

James White say, the location of the church is California. That is past tense.

01:16:25

Kosti has just recently taken the call to a church in Arizona where he now pastors.

01:16:31

And as I said, he's a Reformed Baptist and a cessationist. And there are many more on this roster, more than I have time to list.

01:16:39

But, I have to remind you that the latest edition is

01:16:44

Dr. John MacArthur himself, and I would go to this conference if it was only John MacArthur speaking.

01:16:50

I can't wait to be there again Thursday through Saturday, January 16th through the 18th, in Atlanta, Georgia, or should

01:16:57

I say College Park, Georgia, at the Georgia International Convention Center right near the airport. And I strongly urge you folks, if you have a business, a parachurch organization, or anything else that you want to promote to the body of Christ in large numbers,

01:17:13

I strongly urge you to register also for an exhibitor's booth at the

01:17:19

G3 Conference, as I have manned for Iron Trip and Zion Radio every year for the past three years.

01:17:24

This January will be the fourth year I am manning an exhibitor's booth for Iron Trip and Zion Radio at the

01:17:30

G3 Conference. Something extraordinary happens every time I man an exhibitor's booth there.

01:17:36

With 5 ,000 people milling around, it'd be hard to go wrong manning an exhibitor's booth there.

01:17:42

And this year, or should I say this January, I'm strongly confident they're going to have over 6 ,000 people there because of the addition of John MacArthur.

01:17:51

That's just an educated guess. It's not a prophecy. But I just really strongly believe that they're going to have 1 ,000 more people than they typically have with John MacArthur there.

01:18:00

If you want to join me there, Thursday through Saturday, January 16th through the 18th, 2020, at the

01:18:06

Georgia International Convention Center, register to attend. And also, if it applies to you, register for an exhibitor's booth at G3conference .com,

01:18:14

G3conference .com. Last but not least, if you love this show, you don't want it to disappear from the airwaves, you love listening to guests and topics that very often are never heard anywhere else, please go to www .IronSharpensIronRadio

01:18:29

.com, click support, then click, click to donate now. We are in urgent need of your financial support for the month of November.

01:18:38

Thank all of you who came to the rescue, who answered my SOS and donated to us to enable us to make it through October.

01:18:47

But November is looking very scary already. So please, if you have never donated to us, and you love the show, and you have extra money collecting interest, and you have extra money that you use for recreational purposes to go to sporting events, to go to movie theaters, to go to the live theater, to go to concerts, to get dessert, go to restaurants, and so on, please use a portion of that money to help us remain on the air if you love the show.

01:19:21

Please go to www .IronSharpensIronRadio .com, click support, then click, click to donate now. And as I remind you every day, never siphon money away from your regular giving to your local church where you are a member in order to give to IronSharpensIronRadio.

01:19:33

Never do that. Never put your family in financial jeopardy by giving to IronSharpensIronRadio. Those two things are commands of God.

01:19:40

But if you have been blessed financially above and beyond your ability to obey those two commands, please support

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IronSharpensIronRadio as generously as you can and as frequently as you can by going to www .IronSharpensIronRadio .com,

01:19:53

click support, then click, click to donate now. You can also mail in checks via snail mail, the old -fashioned way, made out to IronSharpensIronRadio to the address that appears on your screen when you click support at IronSharpensIronRadio.

01:20:06

If you are not a member of a local Bible -believing church and you're not even prayerfully looking for one, you are living in rebellion against God, you must rectify that situation immediately.

01:20:17

I have lists of biblically faithful churches all over the world. I can help you find a church, God willing. So, please, send me an email to ChrisArnsen at gmail .com,

01:20:25

no matter where in the world you live, and I may be able to help you find a church. I've already helped quite a number of people find churches all over the globe and also where they have found churches where they are vacationing or where their friends and family and loved ones live who do not have church homes.

01:20:42

So, please, send me an email to ChrisArnsen at gmail .com and put I need a church in the subject line. If you want to advertise with this, send me an email to ChrisArnsen at gmail .com.

01:20:52

ChrisArnsen at gmail .com and put advertising in the subject line as long as whatever it is you are publicizing is compatible with what we believe.

01:21:03

You don't have to believe identically with what I believe, but you need to be promoting something that's compatible with what

01:21:08

I believe. And, please, send me an email to ChrisArnsen at gmail .com and put advertising in the subject line.

01:21:15

I would love to help you promote whatever it is you want to promote because we are in urgent need of your advertising dollars as well.

01:21:23

That's ChrisArnsen at gmail .com. Also, that's the email address where you can send in a question to our guest today,

01:21:30

Dr. John S. Waldrip. Our topic, I already know that we are going to have to have

01:21:35

John back to address the main theme, The Church of Jesus Christ, 28

01:21:40

Truths Every Christian Ought to Learn, because we have been having such a great time exploring his testimony and other things.

01:21:48

But, for the remainder of the show, we will try to give you as many of those 28 truths every

01:21:54

Christian ought to learn as we possibly have time to explore. And our email address is

01:21:59

ChrisArnsen at gmail .com ChrisArnsen at gmail .com We have a listener question from Grady in Asheboro, North Carolina.

01:22:10

A very faithful and loyal listener to Iron Trip and Zion Radio and also a very generous contributor to this broadcast.

01:22:18

Grady says, Since your book is about church, did any of the Indian reservations have denominational churches, or were they all

01:22:25

Native American? And, was the gospel taught? That's a very good question and in the northern states of Wash North let me start over.

01:22:40

I got my tang tangled. In North and South Dakota, the first missionaries were

01:22:46

French Canadian Roman Catholic priests. And so the inroads that were made into the religious life of the

01:22:54

Native Americans of North Dakota, South Dakota, Minnesota, Montana, Wyoming, was

01:23:02

Roman Catholicism. And the gospel preaching ministries were very much late comers to those

01:23:10

Indian reservations. In the desert Southwest, among the

01:23:16

Cherokees and Choctaws of Louisiana, Oklahoma, Arkansas area, and in Florida, the initial gospel ministers tended to be

01:23:28

Baptists. Many people are not aware that between the first and second great awakenings, there was a great revival taking place in the

01:23:43

Southeast. The Sandy Creek Association of Baptists in Georgia, South Carolina, into Alabama, and those churches sent out very dedicated and determined missionaries into the

01:23:58

Indian tribes. And so yeah, there did take depends on what part of the country who got there first and whether they carried the gospel with them.

01:24:08

There are many gospel preaching churches on different Indian reservations in Colorado, Utah, New Mexico, Arizona, places like that, as well as the

01:24:22

Southeast. Well, Grady, please make sure we have your full mailing address because you have won a free copy of Dr.

01:24:29

Waldrop's book, The Church of Jesus Christ, 28 Truths Every Christian Ought to Learn. And we are thanking

01:24:36

Classical Baptist Press for this gift of these books that we are giving away. And also we want to thank Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, CVBBS .com,

01:24:45

one of our sponsors, who will be shipping that book out to you. We have B .B. in Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, who says,

01:24:52

I heard your guest describing the Worldwide Church of God earlier, and although what he said may have been true at one time, the group has definitely abandoned a work salvation doctrine, and I have met

01:25:09

Worldwide Church of God pastors, the group now goes by another name, the Communion of Christ, and they have, the ones that I have met have taught salvation by grace alone, through faith alone.

01:25:23

So I just wanted to put my two cents in about that. Yeah, you know, I can say that I know a couple of men that were in the

01:25:33

Worldwide Church of God. I don't believe that they are in that group anymore. But, believe it or not, on Long Island, one of the local congregations of the

01:25:45

Worldwide Church of God, where I used to live, they, after they adopted the

01:25:51

Trinitarian doctrine, they actually invited my dear friend, Reformed Baptist apologist,

01:25:57

James R. White, to conduct a conference on the Trinity at that congregation, a multiple -day conference, and that was a historic event for that congregation.

01:26:07

nomination to have anybody from the outside do that. Whether or not they were biblically orthodox when they did that,

01:26:16

I think that you probably would accept any invitation to preach as long as you were not told that you could not say certain things, as long as you weren't restricted.

01:26:26

I'm sure you would preach anywhere that they invited you, wouldn't you? Oh, yes, absolutely. One time years ago,

01:26:33

I was involved in an organization called the Committee for Concerned Christians, and it was headed up by a guy named

01:26:42

Ben Friedman, who was raised an orthodox Jew in New York City, turned his back on Judaism and went to Houston and made a pile of money as a developer and then retired to Southern California.

01:26:56

So he was concerned, we're talking decades ago, about what he perceived to be the rise of antisemitism, which we see going on in the world today.

01:27:06

It is a very obvious threat, and he was quite prescient in that. And so he would go around to different denominational groups and talk to them about the fact that though Jewish people say never again, my concern is that it may very well happen again.

01:27:22

And so we need to educate and inform our congregations.

01:27:28

And I totally agreed with him, I cooperated with him, and we became quite good friends.

01:27:35

So one day he called me up and he says, would you like to speak at a synagogue? And I said, seriously?

01:27:42

He said, absolutely. And I said, no strings? He said, no strings.

01:27:49

So I did not know what to do. I was utterly terrified. I drove to the synagogue on Wilshire Boulevard in Los Angeles.

01:27:59

I was there on a Saturday night after the Sabbath was over. And I had an opportunity to speak to about 200 delightful people who were mostly

01:28:10

Hungarian Jews. Every single one of them had a tattoo on their left wrist.

01:28:17

That's a Holocaust survivor. Yes, absolutely. And I told him,

01:28:22

I said, look, I don't know what to say to you folks, and so if it's okay with Ben, let me just throw it open to questions.

01:28:30

And for the next 90 minutes, they asked me question after question after question after question, and they would ask the expected questions, such as, are all

01:28:41

Gentiles Christians? No. And explained why and what's the difference between a

01:28:47

Christian and a Gentile. And it was question after question, mostly by the very delightful ladies there, and they would ask, so how does one become a

01:28:59

Christian? And I was delighted to tell them. Then, in the last 30 minutes or so, it swung around to the person and work of Christ.

01:29:09

Amen. So, is it true that Jesus was a Jew? And I am not mocking them.

01:29:18

I'm simply trying to imitate the manner in which the questions were asked, because they were very genuine questions.

01:29:25

Had I had six months to prepare a gospel sermon to speak to this known crowd,

01:29:32

I would not have said anything different than I did, because their questions were so penetrating, they were so honest, intellectually honest, and they would ask, like, why did

01:29:45

Jesus have to die on a cross? What's the significance of the cross?

01:29:52

What do you have to say about Jesus being born of a virgin? Where does it say that in the

01:30:00

Bible? And I was so thrilled. It was all

01:30:06

I could do to keep from shouting hallelujah and the final question,

01:30:13

Ben said, okay, John, we've run out of time, we have time for one more question. And I said, yes ma 'am.

01:30:20

And this woman, she said, so, if I understand you correctly, you are of the opinion that each of us needs

01:30:30

Jesus as our Savior. Why should

01:30:36

I? And I knew that was, that would be the crucial question.

01:30:41

I anticipated that. About a year earlier, I had an opportunity to meet the guy who became the president of the

01:30:51

Jewish Defense League, the JDL, after Meir Kahane moved to Israel.

01:30:57

Can't for the life of me remember this guy's name, but he was arrested and he died in federal custody.

01:31:04

But he was coming out of a restaurant and I recognized him as a fellow who lived in L .A. And I walked up to him and said, you're the president of the

01:31:10

JDL. And he said, yeah, who are you? I said, I'm a Baptist pastor. He immediately asked me, so what do you have to say about Bailiff Smith saying that Jews need to be converted to Christ?

01:31:21

And I paused and I did one of those Nehemiah prayers, like Lord help me.

01:31:27

And I said to this guy, I said, if my mother needs Jesus, you need Jesus.

01:31:34

And he took it. And he took it. He said, okay. And we shook hands and he parted.

01:31:43

And so a year later I'm at the synagogue and the lady asked her a question and I looked at her and I said, if my mother needs

01:31:53

Jesus and my mother does, then you need Jesus and you do.

01:32:00

And they took it. They took it. It was wonderful. And then afterwards

01:32:06

Ben told me, oh by the way, I said, yeah. He said, that was

01:32:11

Monica Lewinsky's synagogue. I said, well what do you know? I'm glad you didn't tell me that before.

01:32:20

So it was, and you know, heaven only knows. God will let me know when I get to heaven whether or not there was some fruit of that wonderful opportunity.

01:32:31

I'm so thankful for that. It was just glorious. Amen. And I'm sure that you were just joking that you would have gladly preached the gospel to Monica Lewinsky and President Bill Clinton.

01:32:43

The only reason I'm glad I didn't know ahead of time was it would have been a distraction in my thoughts.

01:32:48

I see. Yeah. Let's see here. Oh, B .B.,

01:32:54

you've won a free copy of The Church of Jesus Christ, 28 Truths, Every Christian Ought to Learn. Please give us your mailing address.

01:33:00

And C .J. in Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York, just wanted to quickly mention you said before that you couldn't remember the current president of the

01:33:10

Worldwide Church of God. It is Joseph Tkach, Jr. And Chris made an error when he said it was the communion of Christ.

01:33:18

It's Grace Communion International. That's right. That's right. Thank you, C .J., for that correction. And by the way,

01:33:26

I have interviewed on the old show Joseph Tkach, Jr., but the last conversation

01:33:33

I had with them, I was troubled by some of the aberrant views of the leadership.

01:33:39

I don't know if they made them official doctrine or not, but they believed in post -mortem conversions.

01:33:46

They have adopted, at least back then, they may have changed, they have adopted Quaker mysticism, and they were,

01:33:54

Joseph Tkach himself, was notably anti -Calvinist.

01:34:01

And I even said to him off the air, now that the group has such freedom and you don't have a cultic kind of grip on the ministers or the congregants, are there any

01:34:14

Calvinists springing up among you? And he said, this was off the air, he said, not if I can help it.

01:34:23

Well, I had a fellow who used to go to our church and he walked up to a friend of mine and he said,

01:34:29

I just want you to know I rededicated my life. And my pastor friend said, that's good, how did you get saved?

01:34:36

He says, no, no, I didn't get saved, I just rededicated my life. And I know, I know, but I don't care about how you rededicated your life,

01:34:45

I care how you got saved. And he said, well, I believe that Jesus died, was buried and rose again from the dead for me on the third day.

01:34:53

And my friend said, hold it a second, I believed that when I was a Catholic. And if I could believe that and be a

01:35:00

Catholic, how can believing that make you a Christian? Just because you hold to historical truth does not make you a believer.

01:35:10

That's to be the miracle of the new birth. Do you know, or should

01:35:15

I say, did you know the late Richard Bennett? No, I did not. Yeah, Richard Bennett was a very close personal friend of mine, founder of Berean Beacon Ministries, who was a former

01:35:25

Roman Catholic priest who became a Reformed Baptist evangelist and author, wrote at least one book, maybe two, for the

01:35:33

Banner of Truth, and had others self -published. But he was a remarkable preacher evangelist who was very strict in his opposition to Roman Catholicism and yet declared and exposed their damning heresies in a way that can only be viewed as loving and compassionate towards the lost souls that adhere to the teachings of Catholicism, as I once did.

01:36:00

I was born and raised in a Catholic home. But Richard, something you just said reminded me of a classic statement by Richard when he was speaking against the altar calls in evangelical churches.

01:36:12

And he said, what's this nonsense about you coming to Christ in true saving faith by going into an altar call and accepting him into your heart?

01:36:23

There's nothing in the Bible that says accept the Lord into your heart. I accepted him into my heart, my mouth, and my stomach at the

01:36:30

Holy Eucharist, and I was never saved. Yes, I totally agree, and that has been a theme of my ministry for decades.

01:36:38

I concur greatly. And your former call -in person, if there has been a move of God among people who are in what used to be the

01:36:48

Worldwide Church of God, that would be a wonderful, wonderful thing. God is without limitation.

01:36:57

And by the way, if our listeners could not detect, I was attempting an Irish accent. My friend Richard Bennett was born and raised in Ireland and became a

01:37:06

Roman Catholic priest, where he was a priest in the West Indies for quite a long time and then returned to the

01:37:14

United States as a born -again believer and Reformed Baptist evangelist. He just went home to be with the

01:37:19

Lord a few weeks ago. So, pray for the family of Richard Bennett. Your Irish accent is good, but I don't think you'll make a living at it.

01:37:31

Or, I don't think I could survive in Ireland without perhaps getting punched in the nose if I tried that.

01:37:41

But anyway, we have to go to our final break. This is going to be much more brief than the last one, and we will attempt at exploring some of the 28 truths, and then we'll definitely have to invite you back to get more of those truths under our belt on the show.

01:38:00

But if anybody wants to join us, if anybody else wants to join us, while we still have time, send in your email now, because we are rapidly running out of time.

01:38:09

Our email address is chrisarnson at gmail dot com. Please, as always, give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the

01:38:19

USA. Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries here.

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01:53:47

718 -697 -9999. 718 -697 -9999. N -N -I -N -G. God's plan is for his flock to be gathered.

01:53:56

And so once you... one of the problems with the Independent Fundamental Baptist Movement that I was a part of for such a long time was they spend so much emphasis on their view of evangelism, the result is very few people actually get saved, but lots of people make professions of faith.

01:54:17

What needs to happen is a person comes to Christ and then a person is baptized, becomes a member of a congregation, and then begins a lifelong journey of growing and being a disciple of Christ.

01:54:33

So is a church in fact doing that? Do they have fidelity to the Word of God? Do they actually preach the gospel?

01:54:41

Once they preach the gospel, do they seek to ascertain whether or not the people they preached to understood clearly?

01:54:52

You know, one of the practices of Charles Spurgeon, which was a common practice in the

01:55:00

American colonies and up until the beginning of the 19th century, was the practice of elicitation.

01:55:12

Let me explain what I mean by elicitation. It used to be that gospel ministers were the only profession in the world that sat down with people and attempted to elicit from them an understanding of what they thought the preacher said, and what they thought the preacher meant.

01:55:34

Now, almost every profession in the world except pastors does that.

01:55:41

Every attorney does that. Police officers routinely do that when they ask questions.

01:55:47

Dentists do that. Physicians do that. Pharmacists do that.

01:55:52

H &R people do that. They ask people questions to find out. Now, it used to be that a gospel minister, whether it be a

01:56:02

Jonathan Edwards or a Charles Spurgeon or an Ashley Held -Nettleton, they would sit down with people, and the ministry was personal.

01:56:14

Even though Whitfield preached to multiplied thousands at a time, he ministered to people on an individual basis, which

01:56:22

I think is crucial, because what's important... Now, listen to me carefully all the way through before you protest, okay?

01:56:32

What's important is not what the preacher says, it's what the person thought the preacher said. How in the world is somebody gonna...

01:56:40

how is the preacher gonna know what that person thought he said, unless you ask him.

01:56:47

I had a friend, now with the Lord, wonderful guy. I loved him greatly. He was the pastor who taught me that it's okay to be nice.

01:56:58

It's just okay. It doesn't cost anything to smile, it doesn't cost anything to be gentle, and in the milieu of fundamentalism that I had grown up in, the preachers were oftentimes very militant and so busy serving

01:57:16

God they didn't have time for individuals. And they were frequently very rough and very rough with people, and this fellow was just the kindest, gentlest, most tender guy.

01:57:30

And I, when I began dealing with these matters of the doctrines of grace and moving away from Finney's brand of decisionism, he said, well, you know,

01:57:44

I always make sure that people are saved before I baptize them. And I said, okay,

01:57:50

Jim, how do you do that? He said, well, I always ask a person before I put them under, are you saved? I said, but Jim, who's gonna say no?

01:58:02

I said, you don't ask them those kinds of questions. You ask them questions along the line of, for example, do you believe that Jesus rose from the dead?

01:58:16

Yes. Well, when he rose from the dead, what was left behind in the tomb? And if they say a body, then they're not

01:58:26

Orthodox. If you say, so where is Jesus now?

01:58:33

And if they say he's everywhere, then you have to further investigate. Are they wrong on this ubiquity of Christ issue, or do they recognize that there are more than 120 verses in the

01:58:45

New Testament that locate Jesus at the right hand of the Father? That's kind of important, you know?

01:58:52

And so, gospel preaching, what do you do with people after you've preached the gospel to them?

01:58:57

Do you listen to them? Do you get feedback from them? Do you seek to understand whether they grasp what you're talking about?

01:59:06

And I'm sorry, we're gonna have to end it there, and if you have any more, next time we have you on the program, we'll go through the other signs or the other doctrines or things that the church needs to possess, and those 28 things that every

01:59:19

Christian should know. I just want to remind you folks that the Calvary Road Baptist Church website is calvaryroadbaptist .church.

01:59:29

I want to thank you so much, Dr. Waldrop, for being our guest today. I want to thank everybody who listened and wrote in questions.

01:59:37

I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than you are a sinner.