January 31, 2024 Show with Ken Ramey on “Expository Listening”

Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of founding father James Wilson,

19th century hymn writer George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister George Norcross, and sports

legend Jim Thorpe.

It's Iron Sharpens Iron.

This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning

issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs, chapter 27, verse 17, tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens

another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to

have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener,

with your own questions.

And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of

humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Wednesday on this very

last day of January, January 31st, 2024.

And I am still crawling out from underneath the rubble of

yesterday's program.

It seems that many of my listeners and many who heard about my interview with M .D.

Perkins of the American Family Association, who is also author of

Dangerous Affirmation, we were providing a very serious

but attempting to be loving critique of Alistair Begg's recent

comments where he recommended to a grandmother

during a podcast to attend her grandson's

wedding to a transgendered individual, a man that

supposedly believed that he had become a woman.

Obviously, we know that that is impossible, that there's no such thing as that happening.

But Alistair gave the advice to a grandmother that

as long as the grandson knew that she was a Christian, that she was very

seriously opposed to that behavior and that

so -called marriage, as long as the grandson knew that, she should not only attend, but give them a gift.

And how that conveys the message that you're opposed to what's happening, I have no idea.

But it's amazing how many people are defending Alistair

to the point of being some, not all, but there are a number of people who are being very nasty to me,

and it's quite astonishing that people think that that is okay, that that public

rebuke of me is okay.

But no, no, we can never do that with Alistair Begg.

But hopefully that broadcast will be archived on IronTroopensIronRadio

.com very soon.

I think it's a very valuable interview, and I think that MD Perkins

did an outstanding job of being as loving and gracious to Alistair as he could

and being very appreciative, openly appreciative of Alistair's ministry in the past

up until this point.

And so I think it's a balanced response.

But anyway, hopefully that will be archived very soon at IronTroopensIronRadio .com.

But today we are discussing something different.

Well, it's not all that different because it involves expository

preaching, and on the other side of the preaching, listening.

We have the author of Expository Listening on the show today, a guest that I've

never interviewed before, and I'm looking forward to interviewing him because—one of the reasons is because

my webmaster, Eric Nielsen, is absolutely thrilled that I have Ken Ramey on

today because Eric, my webmaster, has already read

his book, Expository Listening, and highly recommends it.

And Ken Ramey is one of the elders at Lakeside Bible Church in Montgomery, Texas,

and we will not only be discussing his book, Expository Listening, but we'll also be promoting

the 2024 True Church Conference in Muscle Shoals, Alabama,

where Ken will be speaking alongside Richard Caldwell, my friend Jeff Knoblett,

my friend Jonathan Sims, also known as Jono Sims, Timothy Seal, and Derek

Melton.

But it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time ever to IronTroopensIronRadio .com.

Pastor Ken Ramey.

Whoops.

It's an honor.

Ken, thank you.

I accidentally had you on mute.

I'm sorry about that.

Okay, no problem.

That's probably the best place to put me is on mute.

Well, after yesterday, I'm sure a lot of my listeners think that about me, but anyway.

Well, tell our listeners, first of all, about this fine congregation

where you serve on the Elder Board, Lakeside Bible Church of Montgomery, Texas.

Yeah, thanks, Chris.

Yeah, we're a church plant.

We're about to celebrate our 25th anniversary this coming fall, and we're

about an hour north of Houston, and it was—the Lord brought me here from—I'm

originally from Massachusetts.

My wife's from Seattle.

We met in LA, and we ended up here in Texas, as they say.

And so I'm a Yankee serving down here in the south.

But anyway, the church has been very gracious to me, and some godly

men 25 years ago approached me and said, hey, we want to plant a church, and we want you to be our

pastor.

And so we stepped out in faith and rented a little elementary school cafeteria, and

the rest is history.

And so we are thrilled to see how the Lord has grown His church

over the years, and really just—I guess probably my favorite thing about our church is our Elder Board,

our elder team.

I just met with them this morning, and just a group of godly men who love Christ, love His church, and

they're humble, gracious, like -minded men who have just stood

by my side for most of those 25 years.

And so just the longevity of a group of lay elders is a gift from

the Lord.

So I get to do what I love with people I

love, and again, that's just a rare privilege.

And can you tell us something about the theological makeup of Lakeside Bible Church of Montgomery, Texas?

Yeah.

We're an independent Bible church, and so we don't

have any denominational affiliation.

Obviously, we partner with like -minded churches in our area and around the country

and around the world, but I guess we would probably fit, if you were going to put us in a box,

more of a Reformed Baptist -type theology.

Thanks for referring to my beloved heritage as a box.

I was actually raised Roman Catholic, and thanks be to God, was delivered out of that false

religious system, and was saved in a Reformed Baptist church, and continue to be a Reformed Baptist today.

Amen.

Well, if you're in that Pennsylvania area, I'm curious, what church was that?

Well, the church that I am a member of now is Grace Baptist Church of Carlisle, Pennsylvania, but I was raised in

Amityville, Long Island, New York, and only moved to Pennsylvania in 2014,

and became a member of Grace Baptist Church of Carlisle then.

But prior to that, I was saved in the 1980s at Calvary Baptist Church of

Amityville, which no longer exists, because it merged with First Baptist Church of

Merrick, Long Island, another Reformed Baptist church, and it became Grace Reformed Baptist Church of

Long Island and.

Merrick.

But this is not about me, it's about you.

No, that's all right.

It's a curiosity of mine, because I have appreciated the guys over there, but in

particular, Trinity Baptist Church and Al Martin and—.

Oh yeah, that's in New Jersey, yes.

Yeah, he had a huge influence in my thinking and on preaching and

ministry, but yeah, anyway, we're that kind of strange, odd duck, you know, kind of

a Reformed dispensationalist.

Obviously, having been trained at the Master's Seminary and mentored by John MacArthur,

we are very like -minded with Grace Community Church and

the convictions there.

In fact, we actually got permission from Grace Community Church when we planted the church to

steal their doctrinal statement and just change it up a little bit, but we're essentially

on the same page there.

Well, if the Framers of the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith could steal the

majority of Westminster Confession of Faith, I'm sure that's okay that you did that.

Yeah, that's right.

I appreciate that.

By the way, if anybody is interested in learning more about Lakeside Bible Church of Montgomery,

Texas, go to lakesidebiblechurch .org, lakesidebiblechurch .org.

And now, let me find out more about this exciting event in which you

are participating as a speaker.

The True Church Conference 2024 at Grace Life Church of the

Shoals in Muscle Shoals, Alabama.

I attended one of their True Church conferences, which is actually run by

Anchored in Truth Ministries, a parachurch ministry of

Grace Life Church of the Shoals.

And I loved my time in Muscle Shoals, Alabama, and especially my time with the saints

at Grace Life Church of the Shoals.

In fact, as I told you, I believe, before the show, I had the privilege of

having the pastor of Grace Life Church of the Shoals, Jeff Noblitt, speak

for the first time at my most recent Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Free Pastors Luncheon.

And the men that were there were absolutely blessed.

So many of them told me afterward how much they were thrilled and blessed and edified

and challenged by Jeff Noblitt's message to them.

And Jeff blew me away by doing this all at absolutely no charge to me or Iron

Sharpens Iron Radio.

He paid his own expenses, and I was thrilled that he took

time out of his very busy schedule to do that.

And it was also great to see his wife accompany him at the event.

But tell us about the event that you are participating in specifically,

February 15th through the 18th there in Muscle Shoals, Alabama.

Yeah, and we just had Jeff Noblitt at our church this past Sunday.

Oh, wow.

He was, yeah, he was in town to speak at another conference at Richard Caldwell's Church

Truth and Love Conference.

And so I...

Another powerful preacher.

Richard Caldwell is magnificent.

Amen.

He's probably my closest pastor friend in the Houston area, very like

-minded brother.

We're swapping people back and forth from our churches regularly.

So he's a blessing for sure.

And so, yeah, Jeff did a great job at our church this past Sunday.

It was a tremendous blessing.

And my wife and I got to visit with him and his Southern Belle wife, Pam, and

just really enjoyed their company.

And yeah, so we're looking forward to going back.

I was there last year at the True Church Conference, and Jeff was very gracious and kind to invite me.

In fact, it really was because of the book, Expository Listening.

And so it's kind of connected to our subject for today.

But several years ago, I received a phone call from this church in Muscle Shoals,

Alabama called Grace Life Church of the Shoals.

Never heard of it before, but they said, hey, we got a copy of your book, Expository Listening, and we

wanted to know if you would mind if we used it with our small groups and

actually develop the study guide to go along with it.

And I said, absolutely.

You have my permission to do whatever you want.

And so anyway, Jeff thought it'd be good for me to come and actually

preach a message or two.

I actually got to preach two messages last year on the subject of Expository Listening, and I kind of felt like a celebrity there because

they'd all read the book and it really made a big impact in the life of their church.

And so anyway, Jeff invited me back this year.

And so next month, we're looking forward to being there.

Actually, just in a couple of weeks now and along with those other guys on the

speaking list there and just a great group of like -minded men.

And we have the opportunity to talk about the nine maxims of the local church.

And I'm going to be tackling the subject about being focused on the glory of God.

And I'm really thrilled to be able to speak on that subject and talk about how the glory of God is the

ultimate goal of not just the church, but our individual lives.

So yes, we must always remember that, especially

when we are tempted to somehow soften or

alter the gospel message, either in what we say or

what we do, to make it more appealing, more palatable to our

audience, which is basically as nice as they are.

If they're not saved, they're enemies of the gospel.

And we have to remember that the glory of God is even

primary and foremost in importance above the salvation of the

lost.

It's more serious, more important.

And we have to be more concerned about

offending God than offending humans.

And that seems to be a temptation for many people to ignore

that truth.

Even amongst we who believe the same things theologically, it's amazing

how often this seems to raise its ugly head.

And we have to always remember that.

But if anybody wants more details on the

Anchored in Truth True Church Conference at Grace Life Church of the Shoals in Muscle Shoals,

Alabama, February 15th through the 18th of this year, go to anchoredintruth

.org, anchoredintruth .org, and you will be able to click

on a tab to get all the details.

Well, I'm going to give our listeners our email address, if they would like to join us on the air with a question of their

own.

Our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail

.com.

As always, give us your first name, at least your city and state of residence and your country

of residence if you live outside the USA.

Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and

private matter.

But I'd like to read a couple of

endorsements for this book that we are going to address today.

First of all, a much beloved figure in the church who I have had the

privilege of interviewing once at least on this program, John MacArthur,

who has also blessed me with an endorsement, a written endorsement for Iron Trip and Zion Radio.

But John says of your book on expository listening,

I have a couple of shelves full of books about expository preaching, all aimed, of course, at

pastors.

This is the first book I've ever read that offers insight and instruction for laypeople regarding how

to listen to expository preaching.

It's a superbly practical and long overdue handbook covering the subject

thoroughly, yet clearly and concisely.

Ken Ramey is a fine preacher and expositor himself with a shepherd's heart and a wonderful gift

for teaching.

I'm very grateful he has tackled this subject and given the church such an invaluable resource.

That's John MacArthur, pastor, teacher of Grace Community Church of Sun Valley,

California.

And also, my dear friend, Dr. Joel Beeky, who is

my next Iron Trip and Zion Radio free pastor's luncheon speaker on Thursday, June

6th, 11 a .m. to 2 p .m. at Church of the Living Christ in Loisville,

Pennsylvania, which is Perry County, Pennsylvania.

Dr. Joel Beeky is president of Puritan Reform Theological Seminary in Grand Rapids, Michigan, and he says,

good listening is missing today in all kinds of relationships, perhaps

most of all in church.

Many books have been written on how to preach well, but surprisingly, few have been

published on how to listen well.

Ken Ramey's expository Listening admirably fills this void, from establishing a

basic need for and theology of listening from the scriptures to offering

practical ways believers can prepare to listen, discern what they hear, and apply

sermons to their own lives.

I've been waiting for such a book for a long time.

Christians everywhere should read and put it into practice.

Two very powerful endorsements from two very powerful ambassadors for

Christ in the kingdom of God.

In order to prevent myself from interrupting you mid

-sentence, I'm going to go to our first commercial break right now, and if anybody wants to join us,

our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com, c -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail

.com.

As always, give us your first name at least, city and state, and country of residence.

Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Let's say it is over a disagreement you have with your own church over something we're discussing

today, or perhaps you're even the pastor and you have a disagreement with your own elders in your own denomination, or

what have you.

We understand that there will be reasons on occasion where people want to remain anonymous, but if it's just a general

question, please give us your first name at least, city and state, and country of residence.

We'll be right back.

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We believe in salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ.

This salvation is based upon the sovereign grace of God, was purchased by Christ on the cross, and is

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It is the gift of God, not a result of words, so that no one may boast of

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We're now back with Ken Ramey, and we're discussing his book, Expository Listening, a

practical handbook for hearing and doing God's Word.

If you want to join us, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

Give us your first name, at least city and state and country of residence.

And when did it dawn on you, Ken, some of your

endorsers of this book, including the two that I read,

John MacArthur and Dr. Joel Beakey, made it clear that they have never even

heard of a book of this nature before, where the listening is

the subject matter, not the teaching of how to preach.

But, and this is also, as these men said, more geared towards

the person in the pew than the man behind the pulpit.

But it also involves the man behind the pulpit, because they listen to other preachers as well.

Tell us when it first dawned on you of the void that there appeared to be when it came to this,

to an instruction manual, a guide, a help,.

In this very issue of listening to preaching.

Yeah, it really goes back all the way to, like, 1994, when I was

asked to be the high school pastor at Grace Community Church, and somebody on our student ministry

staff handed me a book when I began that ministry, and it was called

A Consumer's Guide to Preaching, How to Get the Most Out of a Sermon by Jay Adams.

Oh yeah, I remember that.

I remember that.

Yeah, and so, and it was a really funny cover with a guy sitting in the pew

with these big ears, cartoon -like ears, and I thought, this is fascinating.

I've not ever even thought of this subject.

And so I read it, and I was so impressed by what Jay Adams said, and his

conclusion was, like these endorsers have said, there's nothing like this.

There's tons of books out there for preachers, but there's no book out there for listeners, and the Bible talks

more about listening than it does about preaching.

And so it's the oversight of the century, and so I was really intrigued by that

subject, and I thought, in fact, I preached several sermons to the students at Grace Community Church

years ago, and then when I was pastoring here at

Lakeside Bible Church back in probably the early 2000s,

I went on a trip to India, and I spent a week and a half preaching or teaching

at a seminary about expiatory preaching, teaching men how to exposit God's Word.

And so as most preachers' dilemma is that they're traveling home from

their trip, and they're landing on a Saturday and have to have a sermon ready by Sunday, I was contemplating that

on the flight home, what could I preach that next Sunday?

And so I thought to myself, I just spent the entire week teaching on expiatory preaching,

and I thought, what is the application of that for my people?

And I thought, well, it's their responsibility, and the other side of the coin,

basically, is what is the, we know what the preacher's responsibility is, but what is the listener's responsibility?

So I crafted a sermon 30 ,000 feet in the air, heading home from India,

and I titled it Preaching for Dummies.

And it's basically a kind of a behind -the -scenes look at how a preacher prepares a

message and how a listener can get more out of the messages.

And then in the mid -2000s, I

was invited to pursue a doctorate in expiatory preaching back at Master's Seminary,

and so I agreed to do that.

And then I found out you had to write some dissertation, write something about, in the

genre of preaching, I thought, what could I possibly write on that hasn't already been covered?

And then I thought to myself, oh, I remember that book that I read years ago that I never got

the proper airtime that it deserved.

It was kind of an obscure book that not a whole lot of people had read.

I thought, well, maybe I can just write an updated version of that, give Jay Adams the honor that was due to

him for tackling that subject years ago, having the discernment and insight to address that.

And so I told our church, I said, hey, listen, the last thing I want to do is do some kind of

project that I'm going to be doing off the corner somewhere that has no relation

or application to my daily ministry here at Lakeside.

I said, if you're with me, I'm going to attempt to preach a series of

sermons on the listener's responsibility in preaching and take everything that I've

ever learned about expiatory preaching and present it to you from the perspective of the person sitting in the pew.

And so I did like a 12 -week series, and that eventually turned into my

dissertation.

Each of those sermons became a chapter in the dissertation, and then it was

recommended by the guy that was my reader, the one, you know, my advisor, reached out

to Crest Publishing and said, hey, you should try to publish this.

And thankfully, Rick Crest and Crest Biblical Resources had

some good editors at the time and were able to take a long -winded

dissertation and boil it down to something real practical and accessible and readable for, you know,

people in the church.

And so I really, at the end of the day, it started really as a ministry to the

members of our church.

In fact, I dedicated the book to my beloved flock at Lakeside Bible Church who

attentively listened to me preach the word week after week and prefer to have their toes stepped on rather than

their ears tickled.

Oh, that's a great line there.

I like that.

Well, and I got that from, you know, people coming up to me after church as I was standing at the door greeting them, and

they said, oh, old pastor, you really stepped on my toes today, but I needed it.

And so they were thankful for the straightforward preaching of God's word.

And then, of course, we know, according to 2 Timothy chapter 4, Paul exhorted

Timothy to preach the word in season and out of season and to reprove and rebuke and exhort with great

patience and instruction because the time would come when they'll not endure sound doctrine, but wanting to have their ears

tickled, they'll accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires and will turn away their ears

from the truth and will turn aside to myths.

And I thought, boy, we live in that generation of ear tickling preachers, and

it's kind of a supply and demand deal.

You know, preachers know what people want.

They want to have their ears tickled, and so that's what they do.

And we live and minister an hour north of who I

would consider the biggest ear tickler on the planet today, and that is, of course, Joel Osteen down at

his church there.

And in fact, Lakewood, we've been called at times, hey, is this, you know,

people will call our church member thinking we're Lakewood.

And I'm saying, no, we're Lakeside, different, big difference.

But so we live in the shadow.

We live and minister in the shadow of that supposedly the largest church in America, and,

you know, where the guy holds up his Bible every time before he preaches and says, you know, this is the word of God,

and you're going to be taught the word of God, and then he puts it down and never refers to it.

And so it's just sad.

So anyway, you know, I thought, you know, this would be a worthy subject to tackle, and our

body has been blessed by it.

And I think it's really helped us have a higher regard for the preaching of God's

word.

People at our church realize that they're going to be held accountable by God someday

for what they hear and whether or not they put it into practice.

And so it's really heightened our experience on Sunday mornings when the word's being preached.

I provide a sermon sheet every Sunday with the outline for today, you know, for the message that day,

and then application questions on the back that are used for, you know, I encourage them to

use for either their personal quiet time later that week, trying to put into practice what they heard.

And then most of our grow groups, our small groups in our church are geared around sermon application.

So the discussion is about those questions and how can we put into practice

this message that we just heard, so that we could not be merely listeners of the word who deceive

themselves, but doers of the word, like it says in James 1 .22.

Praise God.

By the way, when you mentioned preaching for dummies, I couldn't help but remember a

very funny line in the movie, A River Runs Through It.

I don't know how many of my listeners have seen that movie, about

two young men raised in a Presbyterian household, Presbyterian pastor's household.

And over the dinner table, one of the boys asked the Presbyterian pastor father,

what's a Methodist?

And he said, a Methodist is a Baptist who can read.

And even though that joke is at my expense and the expense of all my peeps, my

Baptist brethren, I just couldn't help but find that hilarious.

But sorry for that detour.

I just had that stuck in my head when you said preaching for dummies.

Now, what are some of the initial practical

steps when our listeners are in their respective

congregations this Sunday, sitting in their pews, what are the

initial steps to get themselves prepared for what they're about to hear?

And in fact, that preparation would likely begin even

before they're inside the four walls of that church.

But tell us about the initial practical steps behind

the best.

In expository listening.

Yeah.

No, that's a great question.

You know, the way I think about it, I've kind of broken it up into four responsibilities

whenever we listen to God's Word preached, and these responsibilities, we need to be mindful of, we need to be faithful to,

in order for God's Word is honored and glorified through our lives, and that we get the most

out of the sermons that we hear and experience maximum life change from the

sermons that we hear.

So I think it starts just number one, having an appreciation

for the preaching of God's Word.

In other words, we need to understand the gravity of hearing God's Word preached.

And so, you know, just to, you know, I think guys like John Calvin, for example,

they stress proper hearing with their people because of their high regard

for preaching.

And so I think a right understanding of how to properly listen to God's Word starts and flows out of a right understanding of how

God's Word is to be properly preached.

And so I think before you can even address the subject of biblical listening, you have to

talk about biblical preaching.

And really when, I like how Wayne Grudem said it, he

said, throughout the history of the church, the greatest preachers have been those who've seen their task as being to

explain the words of Scripture and apply them clearly to the lives of their hearers.

And so essentially, they stand in the pulpit, they point to a biblical text, and they say to the congregation,

this is what this verse means.

Do you see that meaning?

You need to believe it.

You need to obey it.

For God Himself, your Creator, and your Lord is saying this to you today.

And so I think he put his finger on the profound gravity of hearing God's Word preached, and that God

Himself is saying this to you.

And so whenever a preacher faithfully explains the Bible, it's actually God talking and not the preacher.

And I get that from 1 Thessalonians chapter 2, where Paul said to the, he was

commending the church in Thessalonica, and he said, for this reason, we also constantly thank God

that when you receive the Word of God, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the Word of men,

but for what it really is, the Word of God, which also performs its work to believe.

And so I think it just starts with an appreciation, like the believers in Thessalonica, they, when they

listened to Paul, they weren't listening to Paul, they knew they were listening to God.

And so I think people need to have an appreciation for

the fact that really, true biblical preaching, when that is occurring,

the voice of the preacher is ultimately drowned out by the voice of God.

That's how John Stott said it.

And so, you know, I think we've lost that appreciation

in the church today, and people, again, really want their ears tickled more than they want to hear

sound biblical preaching.

And so anyway, I think it starts there, and then there's

a responsibility kind of before you hear the Word preached, while you hear the Word preached, and

then after you hear the Word preached.

So really, the anticipation is, that's the second thing I talk about.

Once you have an appreciation for the Word of God, you need to have an anticipation.

In other words, you need to prepare your heart before hearing God's Word preached.

And I think it's interesting when you look at the parable of the soils in Luke chapter 8,

you know, that whole parable is really about hearing and obeying the preaching of God's Word.

And I think the lesson in that parable is that listening to God's Word preached has really more to do with our hearts

than our ears.

And those four kinds of soil really illustrate four kinds of hearts.

You know, the rocky soil, or the road soil, the rocky soil, the thorny soil, the good soil, and

really how we respond to God's Word depends on the condition of our hearts.

And so in order for the seed of God's Word to plant itself deep in our hearts and

flourish and produce fruit in our lives, the soil of our heart has to be properly prepared.

And so, you know, the Scripture talks about sometimes our hearts can be hardened to the Word.

Hebrews 3 talks about that.

Sometimes they need to be harrowed up or broken up and softened and ready to receive the Word.

Jeremiah 4, 3 talks about breaking up the sallow ground.

And, you know, I grew up in, like I mentioned earlier, in Massachusetts, and we had this big garden, and it was so

big that my dad had to get the neighbor farmer to come over and plow up that field

every spring.

And then all those big clods of dirt, it wasn't prepared to

plant anything yet.

He had to go unhook his plow and hook up his harrow, and he'd bring the harrow in and run it back and forth over

that to prepare that soil so my dad and I could go out and plant that seed.

And so, I think it's, you know, you think about what needs more preparation, the

preacher or the hearer.

And Spurgeon was the one who said that.

He said, listen, men ought not to hear or men ought not to preach without preparation, but at

the same time, men ought not to hear without preparation.

And he said, I would have the sower come with clean hands, but I would have the ground well

plowed and harrowed, well turned over and the clods broken before the seed comes in.

It seems to me there is more preparation needed by the ground than by the sower, more by the hearer than

by the preacher.

And so, all that to say, you know, even the most well -crafted sermons

will fail to change people's lives if they're not received by well -cultivated hearts.

And so, we need to learn to harrow our hearts so they're ready to receive God's word.

And I actually have a chapter in the book called Harrowing Your Heart.

And it's really all about, you know, what are some practical things you can do

to prepare your heart before you hear God's word preached.

So, for example, plan ahead.

I mean, something as simple as planning ahead, you know, Sunday morning starts Saturday night.

And so, instead of, you know, basically trying to eliminate the Sunday morning scramble, right, when you get up

and everybody's running around and trying to get dressed and eat breakfast and get in the car and get to church on time.

And usually, it's a very chaotic experience for most families.

And by the time they, you know, rush into church and get the kids dropped off at the nursery or wherever they

plop down to the worship service, their heart is not ready to receive the preaching of God's

word.

And so, hey, plan ahead, you know, do some simple things like set out your clothes, set out the diaper bag,

pack the car up, you know, set the table for breakfast, whatever you can do to alleviate

that Sunday morning scramble so you can have a much more peaceful, restful,

hopefully, experience as you're getting ready to come to church.

You know, but come with your sin confessed, be reading and meditating on God's word

throughout the week, and your heart will already be tilled up and ready to receive the preached word.

Again, there's just a number of things, you know, make sure you take advantage of

all the preparation for the preaching of God's word, the prayers, the scripture reading, the worship songs,

all those things, you know, as you're engaging in each one of those elements of a worship service, I think they're all

leading to the climax of the sermon or the service, which is the sermon and the preaching of

God's word.

And so, and then just other things, you know, like, you know, fighting off

distractions and things like that.

That's kind of what you need to do while you're sitting there, you know, pick a spot in the church where you're going to have the least

amount of distraction.

You know, a lot of people like to sit in the back, but when you sit in the back, you see everything that's happening

on any given Sunday morning in the life of your church, whereas you sit closer to the front, a lot of the

distractions are behind you, and you can focus better and stay more in tune with

what the preacher's saying.

Well, we have an anonymous listener who asks, is

there a time when it is the obligation of a member of a church to

leave that congregation and find another one if the preaching he is hearing

regularly is horrible?

I'm not saying that the pastor is a heretic, but the preaching is just very

ill -prepared and also unproductive in equipping the saints who

are hearing the message over and over and over again.

Yes, and I would say absolutely.

You know, the Bible talks about, and we've heard that expression, being a good Berean,

Acts chapter 17, verse 11.

And, you know, the Bereans, it says, were more noble -minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the Word with great

eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.

And some today might condemn the Bereans for being critical or judgmental or nitpicky,

but Luke commends them for wanting to make sure that what Paul was saying matched up with the truth of God's Word.

And again, we're living in a generation, I think, that's being exposed to more religious

information, instruction than any other generation in the history of the church.

And, you know, there's lots of false teachings out there.

And again, even if it's not false teaching, but it's not, it's more the milk of the Word rather than

the meat of the Word.

You know, Hebrews chapter 5 talks about, you know, the writer was really

rebuking his readers because there were so many more things he wanted to go deeper in talking

about things like Melchizedek.

And he says, man, I got so much more to say, but I can't do it because you become dull of hearing,

for though by this time you ought to be teachers, you'd need again for someone to teach you the elementary principles of the oracles of God, and

you've come to need milk and not solid food.

For everyone who partakes only of milk is not accustomed to the word of righteousness, for he's an infant, but solid food is for the mature,

who because of practice have their senses trained to discern good and evil.

So I think that's really, that's probably the biggest challenge when it comes to the listener's responsibility

is to pay close attention to what they're hearing and to be discerning and to know

that, is this just this milk, you know, am I just, you know,

is my pastor just kind of feeding me milk, you know, week after week, month after

month, year after year, or are we going to the deeper things of Scripture, the deeper truths, the kind of the prime

rib principles of the Word of God.

And I think, you know, there's no more important decision that we

make in life than what church we attend and primarily where you're going

to be well fed the Word of God.

That is so vital, we know that the preaching of God's Word is so vital to our souls and to

the health of our souls.

And so I think that's just one aspect of exercising discernment.

While the preacher, the pastor may not be a heretic or a false teacher, but if he is not,

you know, doing due diligence with the Scriptures and just kind of skimming over things, or maybe just

approaching the Scriptures topically, which typically doesn't give people a good

grasp of the Word of God.

I think, you know, we get people who show up at our church, and we've

had a resurgence of people in recent months who are just looking, they're hungry, they're starving for

the sound preaching of God's Word.

And so they've come from other churches that they felt like they were not being well

fed.

So they were out looking for a place where they could be challenged

and pushed and through a deeper

expository ministry.

And I want to pick up right where you left off there when we return from our midway break.

Please be patient, I should say, folks, with our midway break.

It's always a little longer than the other breaks in the show because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1 FM in Lake City,

Florida, requires of us a longer break in the middle of the show because the FCC

requires of them to localize this program geographically to Lake City,

Florida, where the station is located.

They do so with their own public service announcements and other local things that they air while we

simultaneously air our globally heard commercials.

Please use this time wisely, write down as much of the contact information as you possibly can for as many of our

advertisers as you can so that you can more frequently and successfully contact

our advertisers, keeping in mind that we cannot exist without our advertisers.

The financial support that comes from our advertisers is absolutely essential to our existence.

So please try to buy their products when you can and use their services when you can and visit their

churches when you can.

But when you can't do any of that, at the very least, contact our advertisers, as many of them as possible,

and simply say, thank you for sponsoring Iron Trepans Iron Radio.

That should go a long way to convince them that their money is being well spent.

And also, send in your questions to Ken Ramey about expository listing to chrisarnson at

gmail .com.

We'll be right back.

Please do not go away.

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Hello, my name is Anthony Uvino, and I'm one of the pastors at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Quorum, New York,

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I want you to know that if you enjoy listening to the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio show like I do, you can now find it on the

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Again, I'm Pastor Anthony Invinio, and thanks for listening.

This is Pastor Bill Sousa, Grace Church at Franklin, here in the beautiful state of Tennessee.

Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support Iron

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Grace Church at Franklin is an independent, autonomous body of believers which strives

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If you live near Franklin, Tennessee, and Franklin is just south of Nashville, maybe 10 minutes,

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This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our Sovereign

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I'm Phil Johnson, Executive Director of Grace to You with John MacArthur.

I've been a frequent guest on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, and I highly recommend this show.

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Before I return to my guest today, Ken Ramey, I have some important announcements to

make.

Folks, if you really love the show and you don't want it to disappear from the airwaves, please go to

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Last but not least, if you are not a member of a Christ -honoring,

biblically faithful, theologically sound, doctrinally solid church like Lakeside Bible

Church in Montgomery, Texas, I have extensive lists of biblically faithful churches spanning the globe, and I've helped

many people in our audience all over the planet Earth find churches sometimes even within just a couple of

minutes from where they live.

And no matter where in the world you live, that may be you too if you are without a biblically solid church home.

Send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com and put I need a church in the subject line.

That's also the email address where you can send in a question to Ken Ramey, chrisarnson at gmail .com,

chrisarnson at gmail .com, gives your first name at least, city and state, and country

of residence if you live outside of the USA.

And we do have another question for you from Valerie in Aquabog,

Long Island, New York.

And Valerie says, just to add to the question and answer

that was provided before the break when an anonymous listener asked if you were obligated to

leave a church where the pastor was not really gifted in equipping the

saints gathered as much as could possibly be because he was not very

effective or learned, don't we need to be a little bit cautious about immediately assuming

we need to leave?

Sometimes there may be men who are so learned and seasoned as Christians in that congregation

that they do not need to leave because of their own personal study and knowledge, and perhaps a meeting with

this pastor, or pastors plural, would help resolve the issue, and perhaps

these men could improve the way that they present the Word of God to the people.

Ken, are you there?

Yes, I sure am, and I appreciate the heart behind that question, and I hope I didn't

imply that that was a quick and easy decision to up and leave a church just because

you're not feeling like you're being well -fed.

I do agree with that

sentiment about, hey, there's more than one way to skin a cat in that regard,

and that I think you owe it to your preacher to go and talk to them

and sit down and have a respectful, honorable conversation, and perhaps

you could point out the fact that you don't feel like you're being well -fed, and

maybe that preacher would be convicted or challenged by

that.

And I'm assuming you would advise that be said privately.

Privately, and especially not

spreading that around the church, and getting other people's perspective, or what do

you think, don't go serving the rest of the body, because then you'll become a factious, divisive person

in the church, and undermining the preacher, the pastor.

But I think it would be very honorable—honoring to God, and honoring to those in leadership to go to them, a

pastor, and if it's an elder -led church, to go to the entire elder board and talk to them,

and share your concern.

I have dear friends that have been called to other churches that

they, by their own admission, listen online and to other

preachers during the week.

They do their own personal Bible study, and they feel like they need to really supplement the teaching of the

Word every Sunday at their own local church.

They feel called there, they feel convicted that that's where God wants them, even

though the preaching is a little—leaves a little to be desired.

They are able to supplement their feeding through other good, godly, gifted men,

whether inside that church or outside that church, than just the pulpit ministry.

Well, thank you very much, Valerie, and please provide for us your full mailing address, because

you have just won a free copy of Expository Listening,

and we thank Cress Biblical Resources for providing us with a limited number of copies of this

book for free.

And we also thank Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, cvbbs .com, who will actually be shipping

the book out to you at no cost to you or to Iron Trip and Zion Radio.

And by the way, I don't know, I don't remember if I said the same thing to our anonymous listener in the first part

of the program, but if you provide me with your full name and address, of course, this will be done

without the knowledge of our listeners, since you remain anonymous.

You will receive a copy of this book, too, compliments of Cress Biblical Resources

and cvbbs .com.

Yeah, very, very excellent answer, and this very much involves

the whole premise of your book, that we need to have our mind and hearts

and consciences trained

through the Scripture to even know if we are not being fed

well.

I mean, there may be people who come to that conclusion just because their feelings are hurt

on the summit.

That man makes me upset every week.

That man makes me feel guilty every week.

And, of course, there are true occasions when preachers are

very lopsided in their presentations of the Gospel and are filled with nothing but condemnation, but

sometimes that is a wrong conclusion that people come to, because they're continuing an unrepentant sin,

and they hate being reminded of it.

So we have to be very careful about coming to conclusions, don't we?

Absolutely.

And so what would be another step in the preparation of

making sure one's mind and heart and conscience is going to be getting

the most out of a sermon?

Yeah, I think.

It's important to remember the responsibility

that we all have to put into practice what we hear.

We're all familiar with the expression, practice what you preach, and the people

sitting in the pew count on the one standing beyond the pulpit to live out what he's saying.

I mean, there's nothing more hypocritical and dishonoring to God than when a preacher doesn't do what he tells his congregation to do, but

I would say it's just as hypocritical and dishonoring to God when a congregation doesn't do what the preacher tells them to do.

So I think people in our congregation have every right to expect me to practice what I preach,

but at the same time, I have every right to expect them to practice what I preach, or in other

words, to practice what they hear.

And, you know, I stumbled across a verse in the Old Testament in the

process of studying and researching the subject, and it's Ezekiel chapter 33, verse 30,

and God is speaking to his prophet Ezekiel, and he said, But as for you, son of man, your

fellow citizens who talk about you by the walls and in the doorways of the houses, speak to one another,

each to his brother, saying, Come now and hear what the message is which comes forth from the Lord.

And they come to you as people come and sit before you as my people and hear your words,

but they do not listen to them, or excuse me, they do not do them, for they do the lustful desires expressed by their mouth and their heart

goes after their gain.

Behold, you are to them like a sensual song by one who has a beautiful voice and plays well on an

instrument, for they hear your words, but they do not practice them.

And I thought, Wow, how fascinating that evidently Ezekiel was a captivating

creature.

He was the talk of the town and all the Israelites would flock to hear him preach, because they were intrigued, they

were impressed by his sermons.

But God said they don't, they've never obeyed a single one, it just kind of all went in one ear and out the other.

And so it was more of an experience of entertainment.

It was like, you know, going to the symphony and listening to a beautiful

voice or, you know, some gifted instrumentalist and they were just wowed by

his ability to communicate.

But they had no intention of putting into practice what they heard.

And, you know, I think in, you know, we all have our favorite preachers, right?

You know, Oh, I like Piper.

And I like MacArthur.

I like Sproul.

Or, you know, I like Steve Lawson.

And, you know, or did you hear that message the other day by, you know, and we get excited about the preacher.

And sometimes I wonder if we're more impressed by how they say it than actually what they

say.

Amen.

And so, you know, I think so we just have to be careful,

you know, that we make sure that we don't delude ourselves, like James said,

that we're merely hearing all these sermons, but we're not doing anything about them.

In fact, I told our congregation, you know, the last thing we as a Bible church need is one more Bible

study.

We need to take some time to stop and

evaluate the truth that we've heard and ask ourselves, what are we doing about it?

And I think, again, Bible churches and people that love preaching and Bible study, that's a

blessing.

That's an evidence of God's grace in their life.

But, you know, if you keep packing the church's schedule with one more Bible study, one more Bible study, and no one

stops to ask themselves, okay, so what?

You know, I heard this message.

How should this message change my life?

And, you know, the Puritans became, I became

particularly endeared to the Puritans through the process of studying for this project because,

you know, they talked about this all the time.

And if you were a church member of a Puritan pastor like Thomas Watson, I mean,

these guys took no prisoners.

I mean, just listen.

This is Thomas Watson.

This is something he said in one of his sermons.

He said, if you would hear the word of right, practice what you hear.

Hearing only will be no plea at the day of judgment.

Merely just say, Lord, I've heard many sermons.

God will say, what fruits of obedience have you brought forth?

He said, the word preached is not only to inform you, but to reform you.

And if you hear the word and are not bettered by it, your hearing will increase your condemnation.

He says, we pity such as know not where to hear.

In other words, it's easy to throw stones at people that go to churches that are, you

know, not teaching sound doctrine or, you know, easy believers or whatever.

It's easy to take potshots at them, but it will be worse with such as care not how they hear.

In other words, if you're sitting under good preaching, you're doubly accountable.

And he says this, to graceless disobedient hearers, every sermon will be a stick to heat

hell.

He said, it is sad to go to hell loaded with sermons.

Obey the spirit to make the word preached effectually.

So, I mean, the Puritans, again, they reminded their people

regularly that they had a responsibility to put into practice,

you know, what they heard and that they were going to stand before God someday and give an account for every sermon that they

heard.

And so, you know, they would exhort their people, hey, shake off distraction and drowsiness.

Hey, wake up, you know, have your ears change in the word of God and listen to every

sermon in light of that looming accountability that, and I think it's interesting as I thought

about second Timothy chapter four, where Paul told Timothy to preach the word because,

you know, he was going to give an account someday, you know,

before the judge, he said, you know, I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and the Christ Jesus,

who's the judge, the living and the dead, and by his appearing, he came and preached the word.

So, in other words, preachers are going to stand before God someday and give an account of how they handled,

you know, God's word.

Well, in the same context, I think I would submit and suggest that the

listeners are going to have to stand before God as well and give an account for how they heard God's word.

And so, you're going to have preachers and hearers, you know, standing side by side and giving an

account for how they, what they did with God's word.

And, you know, I just think, you know, the greatest sermon

that was ever preached by the greatest preacher that ever lived is, of course, you know, Jesus

and the Sermon on the Mount, and the way he ended that sermon was with

these words.

He said, therefore, everyone who hears these words of mine and acts on them may be compared to a wise man who

built his house on the rock, and the rain fell, the floods came, the winds blew, slammed against the house, and yet it did not fall, for

it had been bounded on the rock.

Everyone who hears these words of mine and does not act on them will be like the foolish man who built his house on the sand, the

rain fell, the floods came, the winds blew, and slammed against the house, and it fell and great was its fall.

So, essentially, what Jesus was saying there was, those who had listened to the Sermon on the

Mount, hey, put into practice everything you just heard me say.

And, again, it's a solemn warning, I think, that our entire lives, and even, I would say, our eternal destiny is

based on how receptive and responsive we are to God's word.

I mean, Hebrews, or excuse me, Romans 10, 17, faith comes by hearing and

hearing the word of God.

And so, you know, we can't overestimate, or I should say, you know, we can't

overstate the importance of listening to the preached word.

And, again, I think it is the oversight of the century in light of the fact that I've got tons of books that

I can go to to learn how to be a better preacher, but I have a handful, I count on one hand the books I

know of that help listeners be better listeners.

And what's, to me, the irony of all that is when you look at the pages of Scripture, there is far

more references in the Scriptures about hearing and listening and obeying than

preaching.

In fact, at the beginning of this adventure as a church, I

asked one of the guys at our church that was more tech savvy than me, I said, hey, can you do a Google, or can you do a search

of the Scriptures, Genesis, Revelation, and print out every verse that mentions the word

hear, hear, or listen?

And he came back to me with this huge stack of paper, and I thought, oh man, what did I get myself into here?

And it was just kind of like a dump truck of verses and references.

And so, you know, really the whole Bible is all about hearing

and obeying God's word.

And it will be, at the end, it's going to come down to what we did or didn't do

with what God has said in His.

Word.

Amen.

And we have either Paula or Paola, I have a sister -in

-law from Columbia who pronounces it Paola.

And Paola or Paola is from Makakilo City, Hawaii, or

Makakilo City, Hawaii.

Yeah.

And she says, earlier your guest talked about

the danger of being more impressed with how a preacher is preaching,

which would be connected to homiletics, that may totally eclipse what he is actually

preaching in content.

This seems to go hand in hand with the concerns that Chris Arnzen had

regarding his interview yesterday critiquing Alistair Begg's recommendation to a

grandmother to attend a transgendered wedding.

It seems to me that there are many people who are wrapped up in the sin of

idol worship when it comes to their favorite preachers and are unwilling to hear any criticism of them.

Isn't this an extremely dangerous area.

To be treading upon?

I agree, completely.

And that's why that verse in Ezekiel was so stood out to me,

because I, as a preacher, have preaching heroes, men that I emulate,

that I try to emulate.

In fact, I've got a big painting on my office wall that my wife so

graciously had done for me as a surprise, as a gift after I graduated with my

doctorate.

And she had written away to all my favorite preachers and got

them to put their signature down on a little card.

And they did that, and then she put it in this piece of artwork.

So I'm looking at it right now, and I have guys like Steve Lawson and Al Mohler and

John MacArthur and Chuck Swindoll.

So I will confess that there are guys that I admire, and

sometimes we get caught up in the experience of their style, or their

eloquence, or their effectiveness.

And even as a preacher, I'm more analyzing their, like you said, their homiletics,

their pulpit presence.

And I'm tuning out the truth that they're saying.

The truth that they're saying is going in one ear, out the other.

I'm just almost like going to school on their style and what

makes them effective.

And so I agree with that sentiment that we have to be very careful that we don't put

these men on pedestals.

And as someone said, even the best of men are men at

best.

And John Calvin, I think, was the one who said, even the best theologian is only 80 % right.

And so I've tried to live with that mindset that I don't think there's

anybody, including myself, that's got it all correct.

And so that's why we have to be discerning when we.

Listen to preachers.

Well, thank you, Paula, and make sure we have your full mailing address in Hawaii, because you

have also won a free copy of Expository Listening by my guest today.

And we thank, once again, Cress Biblical Resources for supplying us with a limited number of free copies.

And we also thank CVBBS .com, Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, for shipping these

books out to our listeners free of charge.

We have Trevor in Jean Lafitte,

Louisiana.

And Trevor says, I am a diligent note taker during sermons

so that I can accomplish what you appear to be trying to convey to the audience today.

But sometimes taking notes distracts me because I'm writing while the preacher is still speaking.

Do you think it might be better if I take my notes by listening to the.

Recording of the sermon later?

Yeah, I think that's a great question.

I do make the point in the book that one of the practical

ways to be a better listener and to pay attention during the sermon and not get distracted is to take notes.

And everybody's got to find

what works best for them.

And for example, our daughter, she

almost transcribes my messages.

She's often there in the front row in our church.

It's such a blessing to have her there.

And so she'll hand me her notes afterwards.

And it's like she transcribed the whole sermon.

I'm like, how did you do that?

And then my mother, which is another blessing, she sits just down the row, a few seats down the

row.

And my mom is old school.

She used to be a secretary.

So she takes shorthand.

So she takes my sermon down in her old fashioned shorthand that she

learned in secretary school.

And then I think the person that I'm most impressed with is my wife,

who has been listening to me for 34 years preaching.

And every Sunday, she's got her notebook out and she's writing down things that I'm saying.

And I'm like, honey, you are so gracious to listen to me all these years.

She says, I'm not listening to you.

I'm listening to God.

And so I appreciate the heart of my wife who gets it.

She understands that she's not just hearing the words of a man.

She's hearing the word of God.

But I just think you've got to find out what works best for you.

And sometimes it might be best just to write down the title and the text and maybe just

to work on getting the outline, maybe write a few points of application.

I think some people trying to write down everything they hear will be

unproductive and unhelpful.

And so, again, I do think note taking is a wise, practical way

to become a better listener.

But you just got to kind of find your groove and whether it's a lot of notes or just a few notes.

And then I would say this, make sure that you don't just write down what the preacher said.

Take some time after the sermon is over to, and I think the

listener was saying, maybe I should do this after and listen to the recording afterwards and write

my notes.

Well, I think the important thing to do after you've heard the sermon is to evaluate and answer the question, so

what?

I've heard these things.

I took these notes.

What are the truths that were most impactful?

And how should my life change as a result of what I've heard?

And that's why we encourage our small groups

in our church to discuss the sermon or families

to go home and at lunch or in the restaurant, to have the dad say, hey, so what did you

guys get out of the sermon today?

And what are you going to do about it?

And I've told our congregation, they have to be very careful if

I'm standing by the door and they walk out and say, hey, preacher, that was a great sermon.

I'll say, so what are you going to do about it?

In other words, I didn't preach that sermon just to get an attaboy.

It's so that our faith.

And so I think one of the best ways you can be a blessing to your preacher, but it's also a way to

really think practically is when you leave, tell the preacher, hey, pastor, this was

the specific point in the message that was most convicting, and this is why, and this is what I want

to do about it.

That's just to help you learn to get into that habit of looking for at

least one thing you can change, one thing you can obey, one thing you can do better or differently as you walk away

from a message.

The last thing you want to do is get into the habit of filling notebooks full of notes of sermons

and doing nothing about what you've written down.

I would say take less notes and think more, maybe journal, what are the things,

what are the ways I need to change, how does God want me to change, is it a specific

belief, a behavior, an attitude, what do I need to do to change, and what's the first step I

need to take to change, and where and when will I start?

Get really specific about how you want to be different as a result of.

What you heard.

And of course, the value of churches who record the sermons, that is

a very important thing or resource to have for parents and grandparents in the

pews keeping their children or grandchildren in line during the entire

worship service because they're being disruptive, fidgety, and they may be missing

important issues being proclaimed.

Yeah, or if you miss church, you'd say you're sick, you're out

of town on business or vacation, they can catch up on the message, especially if you're

a pastor or your pastor is a sequential expository preacher, in other words, he goes through books of the Bible,

you don't want to miss a message or you lose the flow of that book or that series.

If the pastor is just doing kind of one -off topical messages from here time to time,

it's not that important, but if you're going through a book of the Bible, you want to stay on track.

For example, in just an hour or two, we're going to have people from our

church coming over to our house for our weekly grow group, and we're

going to have a time of fellowship and some desserts, and we're going to sit down, we're going to pray for one another, and then we're going to say,

okay, turn to the passage that I preached last Sunday, let's read the passage, let's remind

ourselves of what it was about, and now let's go through these application questions and let's share with one another

how this sermon should change the way we relate to our wives, our husbands, our children,

how it should change the way we are at work, at school,

how we interact with one another as the body of Christ, how we interact with our unbelieving neighbors, what are issues in your

own life, sin issues that you're struggling with, you know, so I just love, I think there's,

it's kind of a group application process, which is, again,

that our people know they're going to be asked that question, you know, that they come ready to have to give an answer

of, hey, this is what I heard, and this is how I need to change

as a result of what I heard.

Amen, and we have to go to our final break.

If you have a question, send it in immediately, because we're rapidly running out of time.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com,.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com, and be patient with us.

Majesty in Hattiesburg, Mississippi will start off the final segment of the show with

your question.

Send in your emails, if you haven't done it already, to chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Give us your first name at least, city and state and country of.

Residence.

We'll be right back.

It's such a blessing to hear from Iron Sharpens Iron radio.

Listeners from all over the world.

Here's Joe Riley, a listener in Ireland, who wants you to know about a guest on the show

he really loves hearing interviewed, Dr. Joe Morgrath.

I'm Joe.

Riley, a faithful Iron Sharpens Iron radio listener here in Atai in County Kildare, Ireland.

Going back to 2005, one of my very favorite guests on Iron Sharpens Iron is Dr. Joe

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Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming is in Forsyth County, a part of the Atlanta metropolitan area.

Heritage is a thoroughly biblical church, unwaveringly committed to Westminster standards, and Dr. Joe

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Heritage is a member of the Hanover Presbytery, built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets,

Jesus Christ himself being the chief cornerstone, and tracing its roots and heritage back to the great Protestant

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For more details on Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, visit heritagepresbyterianchurch

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I strongly recommend a church I've been recommending as far back as the 1980s, Grace

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Also, all men in ministry leadership, you heard me hint at the beginning of the program

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It's all absolutely free by the insistence of my precious late wife

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this day in loving memory of her and in honor and tribute to her.

So if you'd like to come, you're all invited.

If you're a man in ministry leadership, send me an email to chrisarnzen at gmail .com and put pastor's luncheon

in the subject line.

And as I promised, we are now going to a listener question.

Majesty in Hattiesburg, Mississippi, and if I've ever heard a name that must

be impossible to live up to, it is Majesty.

But Majesty asks,

have you come up with any thoughts about things that may be preventing the listener

of a sermon that he may be unconscious of that is preventing him from.

Absorbing the information that he most needs to remember?

Yeah, I immediately think of James 1,

which James says this, therefore putting aside all filthiness and

all the remains of wickedness, that word filthiness literally means earwax.

So there's things, and I think the idea there has been, like in 1 Peter it says, therefore putting aside

all malice, all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, all slander like newborn babes, long

for the pure milk of the word so that by it you may grow in respect to salvation.

So I think there are some hindrances to hearing the word and

things that clog up our ears, not literally, but spiritually.

And the earwax would be, I think, synonymous with sin and wickedness.

And so it says in humility, receive the word implanted, which is able to save your soul.

So I think if you're prideful and not teachable, that could be

a hindrance to hearing the word of God or doing the word of God, applying the word of God.

It also says in that same context, be quick to hear and slow to speak.

Someone said this, that God gave us one mouth and two ears because he wanted us to listen twice

as much as we talk.

And I think the context there is saying, hey, even if you may not audibly do this, sometimes we want to talk back

to the preacher.

We don't like what he's saying.

And so we just need to have a humble, teachable, hospitable,

pure heart.

We need to come with our sin confessed.

And then I also think we got to get out of the mode of the auditor.

My favorite classes in college were the ones I audited because I got to sit there

and take in all the information, but I didn't have to do any of the quizzes, the tests, no homework.

Man, it was a breeze.

Those classes were a breeze.

And I think we have a lot of people going to church and they just kind of, whether they

consciously are thinking this way, they're auditing the sermon and they're just kind of maybe even taking the notes,

but they're not thinking they have any responsibility afterwards.

And James goes on to say, if anyone's to hear the word and not a doer, he's like a man who looks at

his face in the mirror.

And once he's looked at himself and gone away, he's immediately forgotten what kind of person he was.

So it's a very apt illustration, right?

What's the purpose of a mirror?

It's to show us what we look like so we can see what needs to be fixed or changed.

And so when the preacher holds up the word of God, it's like he's, we're looking into a mirror and

how foolish it would be for us to look in the mirror and get a good glimpse of our

sin.

And then we see the things that need to change and we just walk away and then we just forget about it.

But that's exactly what we do whenever we hear a sermon, right?

And don't do anything about as a result of what we heard.

And so I like how it says, one who looks intently at the perfect law of liberty and abides by it, not having become a

forgetful hearer, but an effectual doer, this man will be blessed in what he does.

And so that's one of the, I think, foundational principles of scripture is that God

blesses those that don't just hear his word, but do it.

That's what Jesus said, Luke 11, 28.

Blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it.

And so I just think we need to evaluate, hey, are there things that are

clogging up my ears or hardening my heart.

Towards the preached word?

And we are out of time.

Time flew by like a bullet.

I want to remind our listeners of the website for the church where Ken Ramey serves on

the Elder Board, Lakeside Bible Church of Montgomery, Texas.

It's lakesidebiblechurch .org, lakesidebiblechurch .org.

And don't forget about the website to find out more about the True Church Conference on the theme,

Maxims of a True Church, February 15th through the 18th in Muscle Shoals, Alabama.

Go to anchoredintruth .org, anchoredintruth .org.

Pastor Ken, you have been magnificent.

I eagerly look forward to many future returns to this program.

I want to thank all of you for listening, and I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives, Jesus Christ is a far greater

Savior than you are a sinner.