March 15, 2021 Show with Justin Peters on “Rome & the Charismatic Movement: The Signs & Wonders Connection”

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Rome and the Charismatic Movement as a Shared Denial of Scripture’s Sufficiency

But I am thrilled to have back on the program, Justin Peters, one of my dear friends in ministry and also one of my very favorite guests to interview. He is an evangelist, a conference speaker, and founder of Justin Peters Ministries.

He's also going to be one of the speakers at the upcoming G3 conference in late September, early October in Atlanta, Georgia, where I will be manning, once again, an exhibitor's booth. And today, Justin and I are going to be discussing Rome, the charismatic movement.

I'm sorry, I said that wrong. Rome and the charismatic movement, the signs and wonders connection, and their denial of the sufficiency of Scripture. And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Triple Zion Radio, Justin Peters.

Hey, Chris.

Tell our listeners about Justin Peters Ministries.

Sure, Chris. Well, I am an evangelist.

If anybody wants to find out more about Justin Peters Ministries, you can go to justinpeters .org, justinpeters .org, and I'm sure we will remember, well, hopefully we'll remember to announce that later on in the program as well.

Well, this program might have some folks scratching their heads, either those that are Roman Catholic or those that are charismatic, perhaps even especially charismatics who used to be Roman Catholic, when we would dare to make an association between the two.

As I said at the outset, our theme today is Rome and the charismatic movement, the signs and wonders connection, and their denial of the sufficiency of Scripture. Well, some people may be scratching their heads because your average Roman Catholic church parish, if you were to visit that, and I would highly advise that nobody does, I do visit Roman Catholic churches when I am attending a wedding or a funeral, and I know that some of my dear friends that I know, especially it seems those who were formerly Roman Catholic, do not even do that, but I believe I have liberty to do that as long as I don't participate in any of the idolatrous ceremonies and rites that are taking place.

I'm there as an observer, and for the same reason I would go to a synagogue if a Jewish friend died, or a mosque if a Muslim friend died, or an apostate liberal mainline Protestant church if someone who belonged to that church died.

But anyway, if you go to, if you visit a typical local Roman Catholic parish, unless it is a part of the charismatic Catholic renewal, or the charismatic Catholic movement, you will likely see something, or experience something, witness something, that is a polar opposite worship service to what you would find in a typical charismatic or Pentecostal church.

Typically, Roman Catholic worship services are very structured, they're very stoic and somber, they are very quiet other than the sound of bells and the priest speaking, they are very predictable and repetitive, and I can remember as a Catholic growing up finding them painfully boring.

Most of the services, which tend to last about 45 minutes, are elements of the rite of the mass, and you typically have a very short sermon that they call a homily, that I don't think that they typically last more than 5 or 10 minutes at the most.

And that obviously, the contents of those homilies will differ from parish to parish depending upon who the parish priest is. And then of course, you go to a charismatic church, and very often, most often, it is far from any of those things, they're far from structured, they're far from liturgical in the sense of a Roman Catholic church, they're far from stoic, they're very energetic, lively, people are usually expressing great joy, and so on.

And not that we are opposed to those things, Justin and I, as far as joy and enjoying new life in Christ, and celebrating what God has done for us, but at the same time, there are connections between Rome and the charismatic movement, and that would include the signs and wonders connection, and, as I said, their denial of the sufficiency of Scripture.

What would you like to comment about my opening description of our theme today?

Signs, Wonders, and Sensory-Driven Religion

Yeah, Chris, I thought...

Go ahead, keep going. Even though we would, I think, rightly say and observe that both the Church of Rome and the charismatic movement deny the sufficiency of Scripture, only the Roman Catholic Church actually admits it.

They would admit, especially their scholars and theologians and apologists, will be right in the forefront of enthusiastically denying the formal sufficiency of Scripture. Whereas charismatics, I think that you would be hard-pressed to find a charismatic or Pentecostal or a non-cessationist actually saying or writing in words, I deny the sufficiency of the Scripture.

That would be a difference there, wouldn't it?

Yes, and another difference,.

Not that all charismatic churches perform or conduct healing services. Some do not, although they believe in a modern-day gift of healing. Some Pentecostal churches, I remember, unless they were doing it at some other time during their service, I don't remember Jimmy Swagger healing people, at least not in Mass like Benny Hinn pretends to be doing.

But your average Catholic going to a Mass would not necessarily, unless he was, once again, at a charismatic Catholic parish which actually conducted healing services, they're not going to be typically seeing claims of the miraculous.

They're not going to see people getting up out of wheelchairs and dancing and stuff like that. But they hear about these types of things typically in faraway places. They hear about it in Lourdes, France.

They hear about the Marian apparitions, the so-called manifestations of Mary in different parts of the world, some of which have taken place recently, but the ones that are more bona fide in the Church of Rome were those that took place earlier in the 20th century and before.

So there's another difference that we have to clarify because of the confusion that some Catholics may have hearing this comparison. And also there does exist a considerable movement of conservative Roman Catholics that are opposed to the charismatic movement within the Church of Rome.

But a lot of this is because the Catholic Church, along with charismatics, they seem to demand things that appeal to the senses. Even though, as I've already been saying, you have a stark contrast between the stoic and formal and rigidly structured Roman Catholic mass and sometimes a wild and out-of-control charismatic service, giving an extreme example, even though those are polar opposites, you have in the Catholic worship services things like candles and the smell of incense and the sound of bells.

These are things that are sensory-driven. They're meant to appeal to the senses. They're meant to make this event more religious. And on one hand, I can appreciate the fact that Catholics, even though I am not an ecumenist and I believe they have a false gospel, I can appreciate an attempt, an effort, to not trivialize what a worship service is, as many evangelical churches have done, even those that are not charismatic.

There is a growing appeal or popularity of flippancy. There is a growing popularity of just making everybody feeling warm, cozy and wonderful and bubbly and joyful in absence of any comment or mention of sin and hell, if you follow what I'm saying.

Don't you think that that appeal to the senses is something that exists very much so in both segments of the signs and wonders connection here?

Yes, Chris.

Yes, and there's more to be said about even some of what we already said, and we will move on to some other things. I definitely want you to give us some of these quotes that you have that allegedly came from the lips of Mary, the mother of Jesus.

Yes.

And if anybody would like to join us with a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com, C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N, gmail .com. As always, give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence, if you live outside the USA, and only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Don't go away. We'll be right back with Justin Peters on Rome and the charismatic movement, the signs and wonders connection, and their denial of the sufficiency of scripture.

Hello, dear ones. My name is Justin Peters, and my friend Chris Arnzen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, and I are frequently blessed to share great times of fellowship with one another at conferences all over the United States.

We'll both be enjoying more fellowship together at the G3 Conference in Atlanta, Georgia, Thursday, September 30th, through Saturday, October 2nd, on the theme, Christ is supreme over all. I'll be speaking there, along with over 20 other speakers, including John MacArthur, Phil Johnson, Votie Balcom, Joel Beakey, and James White.

For details, visit g3conference .com. That's G, the number three, conference, dot com. Please join Chris Arnzen and me, September 30th, through October 2nd, at G3 2021. This is Justin Peters reminding you that Christ is supreme over all.

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Marian Apparitions, Word of Faith Claims, and the Roots of False Revelation

Welcome back. This is Chris Arnzen, if you just tuned us in. Our guest today is my dear friend Justin Peters of Justin Peters Ministries. We are addressing Rome and the charismatic movement, the signs and wonders connection, and their denial of the sufficiency of scripture.

And we are, God willing, being momentarily joined by Andrew Rappaport, our mutual friend who will co-host with me. He is the founder of StrivingForEternity .org. Has Andrew joined us yet?

Yes, I have. Thank you very much, Chris, for letting me be here.

That's great. And if you're using packing tape or something right now as you're moving your offices or something, please stop doing that because we can hear. I hear something weird going on in the background.

But anyway, I'd like Justin, if you could, to give us some of these Marian quotes, these alleged quotes of Mary from various Marian apparitions that you wanted to reveal to our audience.

Yeah, Chris, and just in case we have to be with...

I guess a similarity between what you just read, those very blasphemous, heretical words that were placed in the mouth of Mary never came from her mouth in reality.

No.

The similarity where you would find something anywhere or anything remotely similar in the charismatic world would be in the Word of Faith movement where Kenneth Copeland actually claimed that God, the Father, told him that he could have died for the sins of mankind.

Do you recall that? Do you recall that?

Absolutely.

Oh, it was Jesus, not the Father.

Yes, Jesus.

Okay.

Jesus appeared to be not welcome...

They also not only are escalating, elevating, Kenneth Copeland, or he, I should say, Kenneth Copeland is elevating himself in a very blasphemous and heretical way. He is diminishing Christ, because the Word of Faith movement actually teaches that Jesus Christ needed to be born again, and he was born again in hell after he died, correct?

Questions before we go to our midway break.

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it sounds, Justin, like the claims that they're making of Mary sound very similar to...

Roman Catholic, and arranged many Roman Catholic versus Evangelical Protestant debates, and for some reason that never came up.

I mean, that's right out of Mormonism, you know? I mean, that's the exact teaching that we see within Mormonism as well. And actually, Justin, I mean, maybe you could speak to this briefly, but this is really rooted back in the Garden.

This all comes from what happened in Genesis chapter 3, and maybe that's why we see it in so many different... like God.

I think give another clarification, because people may be tuning in late, and didn't hear my other clarification or my caveat. Number one, I believe all three men here believe that there will be Charismatics and Catholics in heaven with us, especially when you're speaking of Catholics, those that actually believe the true gospel in spite of the damning gospel that is dogmatically taught in the Church of Rome, because there are Catholics that do not follow in lockstep with the dogmas of Rome, sometimes for better, sometimes for worse.

And also, we are not lumping Charismatics all in the same lump. I have had Charismatics as guests on this show, where I was affirming everything that they were saying. Maybe they were talking about a specific book they wrote that I believed in from cover to cover.

So I want to make it clear that we're not saying that all folks who are Charismatic, and all folks who claim to be Catholic are going to hell. And we're also not saying all Charismatics believe in what the Word of Faith heretics we are quoting, or that Justin is quoting.

And not all Catholics believe some of the very bizarre things that their so-called saints have said. And so you're also going to have moments during the show where Charismatics are in polar opposition to Catholic teaching that is cited, and vice versa.

You're going to have Catholics being very opposed to things they hear from the other side of this equation, the Roman, the Charismatic movement, the signs and wonders connection. But we have to go to our midway break right now.

It's a longer than normal break. Please use this time wisely. Write down as much of the information as you can for as many of our advertisers as you can, so that you can more frequently and successfully patronize them, even if that just means contacting them through the information they provide in their ads, and saying, hey, thank you so much for sponsoring Iron Shepherd's Iron Radio.

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