Biblical Manhood and Womanhood | Season 4 Episode 2

All right, so guys look we're here. There's your introduction Josiah that's Elena. That's Anna. Hey guys. Oh and For those of you that skipped a few episodes. Episodes episodes we did figure out Elena's name.

I figured it out. All right, so we've got some things talking about. We gotta talk about youth groups today in churches. It was their point in having them. If so, what is it and if if there is a point in having it and we define what it is.

How should it be run? What would be the correct way of doing that? That will then Lead into what is biblical manhood and biblical womanhood. What should those roles look like what? Are the gender roles if you will for man and woman from the Bible.

We've touched on that some before but that's what we're knocking Out today. So first off ladies youth groups in churches.

The Purpose of Youth Groups and the Family’s Responsibility

Thoughts. Go. I'll go first. Okay. Um, I have. It's kind of a twofold thing for me because I'm not necessarily against them. It kind of depends on if to me. It's more if you have new believers like first-generation believers or like our youth group where a lot of a lot of them don't have parents that cohere or Involved in any church so when it comes to that, yes, I believe that a youth ministry is something that we need to have to be able to reach out to those kids who do not have the family influence of the biblical background to be able to come up beside them and show them and teach them and disciple them so that they can Become members of our church to also learn how to disciple and teach the next generation.

But on the backside of that my second point to that is the fact that I Kind of feel like it's a crutch and it has been a crutch in the modern evangelical church because it's Making it it has made it I guess would be a better way to put it has made it over the past say three or four generations.

Where fathers go? Okay. Well, my kids are at church and they're in this class and they're learning about it so I don't have to be sure the biblical leader the The family leader of my household because they're getting it at church.

Sure. So I think it's a good thing to have as a ministry but not in the hey Let's just try to bring as many kids in as possible Let them play games have a five-minute lesson and then send them back out to the world for the rest of the week and as long as we have Parents who are who we are actively Teaching these are the biblical roles that you are supposed to have in your household and while the church can come up beside you and say Hey, let us help you with that.

Let us Help your relationship with you and your kid. Let's help Back up what you are already teaching them and not just hey, what did you learn in Sunday school and they go? Nothing and That's all you hear about them for the rest of the week and that's the spiritual leadership of the of the Dad in that household is asking them what they learned and not moving forward with it, so to me, I kind of see I've seen it as Like I did.

I don't remember once Really growing up where my dad came and said hey, let's have a family Devotional or something like that and that's something that my husband and I have implemented in our family because we want to Instill that in our kids and make sure our kids Are seeing that We are wanting to grow ourselves and them at the same time and have that family Gathering where we can not only talk about biblical stuff But talk about life and talk about the things of the world that they have questions about that gives us that opportunity sure, and I think that's something that a lot of youth groups have kind of Not taken away from the family unit.

But I think that families have learned to lean on it a lot more than they should I agree with that because that was how.

Want to say like my childhood like my teenage years was like it was the church's responsibility to teach me and then like. So it just took that away from my parents and granted like my parents were divorced and then my mom remarried a man who was Not a Christian and so he was not really involved in that either.

Great man. Love him. He's like my real dad. But with that like my mom even so she never Like would really follow up on that because she didn't know enough herself. And so with the church taking over that responsibility she felt Confident that I was learning good things that were biblical, right?

And so she really just put the trust in the hands of the church, you know.

Youth Ministry as a Tool, Not a Replacement for Parents

It I see it as the exact same thing as education and this is So accustomed to people. I don't even think they think of it this way. For a Christian It is not the government's job to educate your children, it's your job.

It's your job if you want to use that as a tool to do it by all means. Do your thing though? I would say you take a long look at some of the options we have. But at any rate if you send your kids to a private school great.

It's still your responsibility. You are just using that as a tool to it for an ends to a means, okay. It's whether you're using a government funded public school where they're using a private school where they're using a tutor.

It's your job. You can use whatever tools you want. But at the end of the day God holds you responsible for that. So all those other things are tools in your bag for you to accomplish what you need to do.

That's how we should view Education that's not how we view education. Yeah, we view it as Government owes me this because the government wants quote-unquote educated people in their society. So they they pay.

You pay we pay for everyone else's kids to be educated or we pay larger sums of money to send them to a private school and. And that still is our responsibility we're just using other tools to do it. It's the same type thing.

Well, I think the danger that you two are talking about is that same type of mindset of well as a mother as a father I Brought them to church every Wednesday and Sunday night. Therefore I am fulfilling the biblical command of raising them in the nurture and the instruction of the Lord, right?

No. Those are tools you're using to accomplish it. And I think that's wise To use those tools so long as you recognize them as that. The nursery program at the church is literally the best nursery program I've ever seen of any church of any size anywhere and I mean that that's like for real.

I have two kids four and two. Yes, four and two. Yes, my oldest Ava Will come home and quote to me scripture and they like in the little curriculum that they buy Miss Sandra and Miss Carol. Like it will give them like like if it's Ephesians 432 will say be kind tender hearted forgiving one and it will just say be kind.

What'd you know for the three-year-olds, you know? But Sandra doesn't do that. She prints off the entire verse and has them memorized the entire verse. I've learned a couple verses from Ava Psalm 107 one never heard it till Ava quoted it now.

I know it but if I am trusting solely in Sandra or Carol To teach my children the scriptures. I'm failing right? That's a tool I used to do that and it's a good one other faithful people. That's a good one if that was the mindset we had with youth groups with Children's Church With Sunday schools if that was the mindset we had as far as it comes with children I think we would have the right mindset.

It's not a daycare. It's not an after-school program. It is a tool that you should be using To teach your own children. So I think y 'all's concern there is right. So, how do you balance? Because You know There's a there's a mixture there of.

Well, let me just start this way let's do this one, okay. Do you believe That churches that have entire youth services. Where if you are under the age of 18? You never have a service with the adults. Y 'all think it's a good thing or a bad thing.

I think that's a bad thing. And I was one of the things I was actually gonna mention.

Why Separate Youth Services Can Weaken the Church

All right. Well Anna first then Elena go. Well, I think it's a bad thing because you're segregating the two groups. They don't get to see the adults participate in worship and learning and During our you know with our church in particular I think we have like a different invitation time or like when I went to churches and we had invitation.

No one would go up. And no move no everyone stayed in their seat because if you went up there you had a problem. And you didn't want anyone to know about. You know, I mean and so but with our church That's a time where it's like you're struggling.

The weird people are the ones not saying anything, right? Yeah, not moving at all going down like, you know with other situations that we've had in our church. You know that people are hurting you go down and you pray for them.

They get to see the adults minister to one.

So for you you get to set the example, it's not as much as as The the singing it's not as much as the preaching. It's for that invitation time of seeing other adults. Well, or whatever. Other adults ministering to other adults.

Yeah, because they get to set the example and they get to see that in motion. Elena. What were you saying of them?

The way I see it is that a lot like Anna, you know the youth even in our church. Which I think that's one thing that we could improve on is. My husband and I were talking. He said, you know before I worked in youth I didn't know any of the kids because most of them either didn't grow up going here their families.

Didn't they were brought here by another friend? Yep. And so no one the youth is basically like its own little section of the church even the children's ministry. They come in they hang out with the adults all that even with the children's ministry.

That's how I know a good bit of our youth is because they will like Dalton. He was in our AIDS with my husband and then like Maddie and like other people they were. I did Yes with them when they were growing up, right?

I didn't do that then. I wouldn't have known them, right?

And I mean we've been here going on five years or just at five years and I Mean, I knew some of them just from walking around and knowing their parents, but if you don't actively. Get to know the kids.

Then how are we discipling them? How are the older generation? Discipling them outside of those of us in the youth group that are working in there on Wednesday nights because a lot of them don't come to Sunday mornings just Wednesday nights.

And I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing because our youth pastor is you know, he's awesome. Yeah, our our youth ministers. The leaders are awesome. I'll say this about about that I went and taught a.

Substitute teacher I went and taught. For bro for a brother Christian for brother Jeremiah maybe three months ago, you know, these are 13 to 18 year olds. 12 to 18 year olds. Somewhere around there and I walk in.

And I go over there every now and then and they were learning the attributes of God and. Written on the board from the previous week week was God is triune in an explanation of what that means. And that God is eternal and that God is omniscient.

And I'm just looking at this list. I'm like, you know what? Not that we have everything right, but how many churches right now can say they're teaching their 13 year olds. About God's try you nature and that he is eternal.

I was that's a good start.

Teaching God’s Attributes and the Gospel to the Next Generation

We didn't really do stuff like that in our youth group like some of I remember like one lesson in particular is like one thing that my youth pastor would do and like I loved my Youth pastor. Yeah, we still talk to each other but he would do certain sermons like.

All of the music that was like current, you know, like Bruno Mars was really popular, you know. It's like kind of aging me but like Bruno Mars and like Katy Perry and all these like these popular pop songs Coldplay was another he would go through these songs and He would talk about exactly what they meant and he's like and this is how it does not align up with scripture.

Like why are you listening to that? Well, I think that's important. I think that the gospel is more important foundation. Well, and that's the thing like with our girls, you know, and I did GA's. Maybe one girl out of like ten could tell me what the gospel was.

Like they had no idea and I'm like, this is a problem. Sure, and so why I think I think youth groups are great and you have you know. Like we've all been teenagers you're awkward and like, you know, just like it the whole thing.

We looked at pictures of us as teenagers a couple of weeks ago. We're like God. How do we have friends?

Because your friends also were your friends your friends were also like that.

Elena and I would have been good friends in high school. But with all of that to say it's like I think youth groups are good because you know. Like you're in that weird age group together. But like you said a lot of youth groups around.

You know around the world around our country in particular like they're probably just teaching. Like you said they're doing like all these games and activities to draw all these kids in and then they do a five-minute lesson.

Then they don't disciple these kids at all. Yeah, and it becomes this big. Okay, how can we get more people? How can we get more numbers? How can we get more baptism? Oh, it's not. Okay. How can we pour into these kids?

How can we make sure that they are set up for when they go to college? But another thing one thing I wish that our church would do is like one Wednesday night a month have the youth go go with an older person to the Wednesday night Bible study and Be able to sit with someone that can disciple them and kind of build a relationship with older the youth the youth boys Be discipled by men of the church that Are sound in their doctrine that they could come up aside because a lot of them don't have the influences it back at home but that's a really cool thing that our Our youth pastor pushes to is the relationship with parents sure, and that's something that's I feel like is missed a lot in youth anyway, because You know you go.

Well, that's against Scripture. So you shouldn't follow your parent. Well, that's not biblical. If it's unbiblical, they're telling you to do something unbiblical. That's different but just saying, you know trying to reconcile a relationship with a parent is More of what our youth pastors are trying to do Because that's how you bring in.

I think I saw a Study done by oh my gosh, I forgot what organization it was, but it was Like if men follow Christ first or start going to church and doing what they're supposed to do 98 of the family will follow 98 their family follows behind if the wife comes first To Christ then the family has like I think it was like a 60 chance of following behind.

But if the youth if the child comes to Christ first and is active in the church It's only like a three or four percent chance that the parents will also come.

I mean, I've seen it at our church, right?

But I have seen our youth pastors time and time again Try to make sure that he keeps the line of communication with those parents open whether they go to the church or not because because he wants to make sure those are fixed and that the root issues that they're having they can try to.

What's the word address. Not just address but reconcile Relationships in a way that will show Christ to the parents instead of just oh, well, let's get the kids. And then the kids will bring parents. That's obviously not going to be the case, but if you reconcile the family and Then that child starts being able to share because they have a better relationship and they can write the difference.

And I feel like that's something that our church Has done very well through our youth pastors, you know.

The hard part is the truth that we said from the get Which is at the end of a day? What this child needs is? For his parents to come to know the Lord and that that's that's what he needs and we can't make that happen.

But I can't tell you How many kids who are now adults have never forgotten The love the consistency that they were shown here and at other places, too. It can be a very Demoralizing thing when When you have a mixture of okay, so You know, let's say you got 20 kids.

Well, some of these kids parents are Faithful members of these churches some of them. I've seen you know every other month some of them. I've never seen I've never seen this kid's parents. I mean he came back with a paper signed by his mom.

I've never seen her. I gotta actually call now to make sure this is actually her right? It can be a very demoralizing thing. It's not an easy job. I think what Anna said The best witness we could ever be as as the church in our culture to our young people is not Our theology, it's not our Bible studies.

I think the best thing that we could ever show them is the genuine love and Service we have with others you need to highlight as a church. My opinion you need to highlight Those youth being able to visually see that however that takes place.

However that takes place that needs to be highlighted and here's why so I'll give a perfect example from this morning. This morning Went for the past three days our deacons Go and grocery shop they do everything they go in grocery shop.

They come up here on Saturdays and start cooking and then they get here super early Sunday morning to start cooking breakfast for the congregation. Like this morning Tim told me they cooked 240 eggs. That's 20 dozen.

Yeah, and then just pots of gravy and sausage and all that stuff, but you know the best thing Was that I won't say their names. Several of our youth boys got to see that. Yes. So whatever Example there is where they can see that is more important is more important.

Then maybe almost anything else because they're seeing The gospel lived out in lives of people for which some of them never see that lived out. Let me just say this about youth groups and while Why I'm so proud of Our youth ministers, here's why.

There are some People now not all of them are youth some of them are adults, but I'll just pick the youth for a minute. There are some people that the one hour or for some of them two hours. They are on this property is The only hour or two in their life where they will hear the truth in their entire week.

Just think about that for a minute the only place Where they will hear there are only two sexes. It's the only place where they will hear that. There's only race. There's only one race that God is the arbiter of marriage.

That God has created the world. You know one of the main things brother Jeff teaches on when he teaches the youth. Whenever he does you're not stupid for believing the Bible. You're not stupid for believing the Bible.

I Ever hear the earth is less than 10 ,000 years old. Okay, that's fine. That doesn't make any less true the world is so Has such a grip on so many different areas of culture that if we in the church can't stand and say It's a it's a level of confidence.

It's a level of confidence and be able to say I don't need other people in these other areas of my life. To have to Conform to them so that I can be accepted. I can believe the truth simply because it's true when you teach people.

Especially young people that type of confidence that can go a long way. With youth groups. What do y 'all think of. Excuse me, I just got backwards some churches. Have totals now you talked about. They never have total separate services.

They'll have a young contemporary. This is beyond youth. Maybe the word additional a traditional service and a contemporary service. Okay, and what do y 'all think of that so that that way at least at least if there's a contemporary service.

Okay, and I'm just trying to trying to see from the other side here the Hector hats all the way over there. There's one right there. There's another actor. Oh my goodness Hector, what did you call this you text him or hey?

That's right, it's Hector. Okay. All right. I've got the Hector hat on. Okay Ladies no. What about oh dude I can see the monitor Ladies and the contemporary services. It's not all people under the age of 17.

They will be in the service all together. They will see men and women serving each other. There will be corporate worship. There'll be God's word being preached will be an imitation. Please explain to me what's wrong with that.

You're not.

Worshipping with the entire church body you're separating it. It's more segregation. It's segregated because of people's Preferences preferences and that's not a reason to split a church. I'm gonna take the Hector right off.

Okay, that was quick. Did we get it, right?

That light was bright bro, it's a light right here next to me and y 'all probably knew that I didn't see that until I just Turned that was bright. You're blinded. So You know I was thinking bugs like we're ants.

One's a ripoff of the other. Yes bugs. Life is way better. Yeah, that's the the office does the whole thing on that. But anyway, all right, so I agree. If I was gonna give a caveat someone might say Look when we built this church We built it to hold 200 people and we grew and we have 500 people.

So get a new church or just cram in. That's what we do.

Church Growth, Shared Worship, and Refining the Body

Here's some advice I would give that person that's in the transition of that right. Because that that can happen.

It's a growing pain. It really is because let me tell you when that great thing. That's a great problem to have but I don't think separate splitting the church is a way to solve it.

Here's a here's a lot of times what happens. Whenever God judges the nation He says in 1st Peter judgment begins in the household of God the church will always be judged for a culture. So the Bible says is in 1st Peter.

I wish you can remember the reference. That's scary judgment begins in the household of God. We have gotten to see God's purifying of his church past few years. He he's been purifying it. Getting rid of more of the fake so that when you refine something what you're doing is You're burning everything.

That's not pure and the fake Fades away and what's real remains and if you keep doing that that's why the Bible talks about being refined seven times over you keep Doing that it's more pure more pure.

Well, God is refining his church in our culture. So that there's less godlessness in his church. And that more of the real remains what I would encourage somebody is all right. Figure it out. And if you have to do two services don't split it up based on preference.

Have the same message preached both times. Have the same song choice preached because there are scenarios like that that happens. We're okay. Over the past two months. We've had 200 people join because these four churches closed down and this do so In and that pretty same message twice, you know what I mean?

Put a speaker outside in a tent do whatever you gotta do. Right, there you go. Problem that's what it is. You're part of the All right, so I think Consensus would be youth groups. Can have very positive impacts whether the kids have Parents within the church or outside of the church about church.

I mean Christianity. I mean God's Word, of course. So long as the practice in a way that is honoring to God and not honoring to any individual youth minister or Entertainment style right but honoring to God's Word with the notice that we have to remember.

We cannot replace the God ordained Structure of a family. What we can do is influence it All right good on that ladies. Let's move on to biblical manhood biblical womanhood, and I want to ask you guys.

We'll start with the men. Talk more about what you were saying about a man coming to know the Lord. First I have a an example of this. I didn't know if you guys have an example of this either in a positive or negative light.

I have a positive example of this but about men getting right with the Lord and the impact that can have on a family.

Biblical Manhood: Headship, Provision, and Christlike Service

Elena you want to go. I've seen it actually around here more than I ever saw it. I think growing up Just because when a man comes to Christ and is around people who are pouring into him and Discipling him and showing him what a man is supposed to be according to the gospel Then it changes the whole dynamic of the family.

We have several people here who have Come to Christ and then you see How their family has come up behind them and I have a specific family in my head right now I don't want to say it but you see the husband start doing what they're supposed to do and You see the wife start taking her position where she's supposed to and then you see the children's demeanor and behaviors Change under that and I mean, it's undeniable not to say isn't that incredible.

It's undeniable How it happened in my own family. I mean, I thought we were My husband and I were you know Great, we were married. We were you know Happy happy and all that and then I come here and I'm going.

Oh, that's what biblical womanhood is that's what I am supposed to be striving to do and.

Sometimes it's a little sour to learn that.

It took me a long time to come to terms. There was a lot of humbling a lot of humbling. Still are modifying. It has changed my family's dynamic just not even concentrating on what my husband's supposed to be doing just going.

Okay, where am I failing? What am I not doing. The mirrored not just right finger and that that was what I did for. We know a while was okay. He's not doing this. He's not doing that and then suddenly I'm like, well, I'm not either.

I have no room to talk. Let me get the plank out of my eyes.

Okay, I was literally over him Spirit. I was literally about to say that that that passage in Matthew 7 hit me squaring my teeth a few months ago. Jesus's analogy of the plank the log in your eye over a splinter of the speck and someone else's is Just because literally your sin is less you should see your own sin as a log and there's a.

Right, that's that's how you should view your own, but it's not like that. We are. We will see the smallest.

The smallest imperfection that just annoys us to no end. And then here we are. I was. I got so bad at nagging my husband. I started annoying myself. That's how I knew I had gone too far. Oh my god.

You know what God says the nagging negative wife is like the dripping rain that never ceases. You were that for yourself.

He. I did it in my kitchen one day. I was like, oh my gosh. I heard it.

I need to stop. Have you ever just wanted to like go away from yourself? You're like, I wish I could escape from myself. Like what a beautiful phrase. Oh, yeah, that was great. Yeah, you know.

I want to say what you said. It went to that point, but it did.

Mentioned this last week not on the podcast and when the Bible studies. You know Jeremiah 17 9 The heart is desperately Desperately wicked deceitful above all else who can understand it. And I just had a thought I realized.

All right. For anyone listening think of the best liar, you know. They are slick they are cunning they have hoodwinked you and made you look like an idiot. They have I mean they are slick best liar, you know.

Okay, if you believe the Bible your heart is a better liar than them. Because the Bible says that your heart is deceitful above all else. Now, here's why. Because they can deceive you easier than than anyone else can.

It can make you think that what you're doing is right when it's wrong and make you think when something is wrong.

It's right. It can make you think you're a good person. So if Josiah Shipley does not constantly.

Examine. What direction he said isn't heading in decisions? He's making what he's doing with God's Word. I will deceive myself in the thinking that I'm doing right when I'm doing wrong. That's how deceitful and it's it's not just because it can deceive others.

It's deceitful of all of all else your heart because it can deceive you. That's that's the point of it. It is scary because if you're not constantly examining that's why there's so many scriptures. Say examine yourself.

What you were saying though Elena going back to the other thing. About a man Obeying God and maybe not even coming to a Lord for the first time salvificly maybe just Taking a step in obedience they hadn't before.

First Peter chapter 3 is a Lengthy passive scripture, maybe seven or eight verses about what an unbelieving woman is to do if she's. I'm sorry. What a believing woman is to do if she's married to an unbelieving husband.

Okay. There is no such passage like that in the Bible in that length about what an unbelieving. What what a believing man is supposed to do he's married to an unbelieving wife. There's a couple verses in 1st Corinthians, but not like that.

I thought why might that be. And then I realized exactly what Elena said because most of the time when a man turns to the Lord Those under his headship his wife will soon follow.

I have seen that happen in this church. When a man leads the woman will follow.

Scripture with those two prison guards. Exactly. Yeah their whole family whole family.

Yeah, Cornelius same exact thing the whole family Followed because of that it. It's the miracle a federal headship. Whatever happens to the head happens to those under it so Nine times out of ten if The man submits and obeys soon soon. His family will follow.

That's how God set up. That's how God designed it. That's how It is made that way. So With that being said the scripture says. You were talking about being blissfully ignorant about certain passages. In 1st Peter 3 7 it says.

Husbands be understanding with your wives As they are the weaker vessel and honor them as the weaker vessel So that your prayers may not be hindered. Honor them not pity them. Honor them as the weaker vessel so that your prayers will not be hindered.

That one took me a little longer to fall asleep that night that I read that My prayers will be hindered if I do not honor my wife as a weaker vessel because now I have to know what that means. To examine am I currently doing that?

Because if not that may explain X Y Z.

God set up. Yeah, God set up. I told John the other day I said stop. I'm the weaker vessel. Oh gosh.

I'm worthless. With my words when we moved here and I was eight months pregnant. My husband posted on the Facebook group. I was like, yeah, we need help moving cuz I don't know like Anna's just worthless for some.

Like yeah, I'm like I can't point. I'm only growing a human. Yeah, I'm like uncomfortable in August September.

That's that's. We moved in in August and I had Elijah the next month. Yeah, it was don't reckon 10 out of 10.

Don't recommend. Yeah, we have a great church family. Just say quiet. This was before we were here. Oh gosh. It was really bad. But anyway going to sleep was harder for you after oh, oh, yeah. Thanks for bringing that back up.

Yeah, that night was a was a tougher because I realized that but you know biblical manhood God has created spheres if you will of authority and Has set over heads of those spheres. My son that word right sphere sphere sphere.

That was a serious s do that one more time fear. Don't do that again. He has set up zones zones of authority with heads over them so. Okay, watch this. You're ready with the church. The head is Christ.

Okay. There are heads of governments and there are heads of family. Now what God has done is done this. Whatever happens with rewards or disobedience with the heads. Tends to trickle down on those in their Federal headship in their zone of influence.

Okay, so Adam was the federal head of all humanity. So all humanity dies in Adam. All who believe are in Christ or as Christ died. It was raised in a seat in the heavenly places the scriptures describe us as having died to Christ having been raised in seed in the heavenly places, right.

With governments God often rewarded. If you look at the scripture or punished heads of nations to which the rest of the nation felt. Those rewards or punishments happen when Nebuchadnezzar it happened with David and tap it happened with Solomon happened with Saul.

Happen happened with Pharaoh. Okay. So with fathers. Well, and it's already given a couple examples of prison guards and Cornelius so with fathers them being the federal heads of That group yeah, brother Jeff said this morning a sermon they are a microcosm of a unit of bigger units of the church of Society of the whole kingdom of God, that's how it should be.

It's like scripture calls pastors the under shepherds and the great shepherd is Jesus. So Jesus is the head of the church. He has under shepherds pastors. In that way. Well, you can think of the same thing with governments.